Why "DIY-Recording" Doesn't Work (And Most DIY-Productions Suck) - Back To Basics Mini Series Part I

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Episode show notes:
This is part one of our "Back To Basics" Mini Series.
We're doing this because we believe that we need to be reminded more than we need to be taught.
And also because most self-recording musicians we talk to, even the more experiences ones, still ignore some of the super important basics. And by doing that, they are self-sabotaging. Holding themselves back from making truly exciting records.
So here's part I:
We thought about the term "DIY-Recording" quite a bit and we think it is misleading. It doesn't work. At least not the way that many people think it does.
Most self-recording artists / bands are actually doing themselves a disservice by DIY-ing everything.
And we know this sounds weird for a podcast that teaches you to do exactly that. The thing is, so many people have a wrong understanding of the record-making process and completely wrong expectations when it comes to this stuff.
So we think this is an important message and it's time for some real talk, telling you the truth here.
In this episode we're asking each other a few very interesting questions. A little thought experiment.
Then we show you the different ways you can approach your next (DIY-)record. And what to realistically expect from each.
PS: Please join the conversation by leaving a comment, a rating and review, or a post inside our free Facebook community.
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For links to everything we've mentioned in this episode, as well as full show notes go to: theselfrecordingband.com/220
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If you have any questions, feedback, topic ideas or want to suggest a guest, email us at: [e-mail]

[@angermanagementstudios]

I began recording as an artist in 1994. It was hard. Expensive. Time consuming. Many in the music industry are utterly unreliable. So I’ve spent the last 30 years leaning to do it myself. First as an amateur, then as a professional. And I STILL write, record, produce, engineer and master all of my own work as a solo artist and in my band. Maybe someone else could do it better. But I simply don’t trust anyone else to care enough. And more importantly, after all these years; I still LOVE the whole process!

[@theselfrecordingband]

100% agreed! This is pretty much my story, as well. I learned to do it all myself and LOVED every minute of it. But it was also brutal and took a looong time. And then it all really took off, as soon as I started working with other professionals and looking for mentors. You don’t just wake up one day with the skills to make a record. You can either put in your 10000 hours, or get help from professionals / mentors. Ideally both, like I did. :)

[@robpaterson2222]

There are plenty of accomplished artists who are responsible for the lion's share of production work (and sometimes all production work) on their own records. DIY does not mean AMATEUR. No one should be mislead into thinking they can create anything without experience, but the idea that "professional" resources are required to make a "great" final product in 2024 is wrong. I'm also curious about how the term "great" is defined...what makes an album "great?"

[@bobmortimerisweird]

Exactly! To me, the composition is much more important than the recording quality, when it comes to measuring how great something is.

[@theselfrecordingband]

@@robpaterson2222 Thanks for commenting! I think “great” means that you love it and that you are proud of it. That’s it. And yes, in theory everyone can DIY everything. And we love that idea! I come from a DIY background and have played in DIY hardcore punk bands, etc. That’s why I have built this entire platform, despite already having a successful studio career. I really love to support DIY artists! But in the right way. I want to help them avoid the common mistakes I see all the time. And the mistakes I’ve made myself. And I wouldn’t say I’m self-taught. I had amazing mentors. And I put in years of (unpaid) full-time work, struggling financially and emotionally, sacrificing a lot, to finally get to the point where I was able to produce great stuff that I was really proud of. And that made other artists want to work with me. So, it is possible, but it doesn’t work the way most people think it does. And I think most accomplished DIY artists will tell you the same. They wouldn’t consider themselves completely self-taught and they probably haven’t done it all themselves or without help from more experienced people. -Benedikt

[@theselfrecordingband]

@@bobmortimerisweird 100% agreed!

[@TheConsideredMan]

It doesn't matter how good the production is, if the song sucks! As an architect, I remember when AutoCAD came into regular usage in architectural practices...if the designer was a poor designer, all that happened was the design was still poor, but it just got designed more quickley. Computers certainly offer many in the box opportunities along with vst's in abundance, but if the song or composition is awful, no amount of computing power or fancy footwork in production will make it better! A good song or composition also doesn't need a lot, either!

[@theselfrecordingband]

100% agreed! And what you’re saying is actually part of what “great production” means. Production is not just engineering. Get the song and the arrangement right first. Then present it in the best way possible. It is all production.

[@kevinpaige5746]

Great arrangement = 80% of a great mix.

[@theselfrecordingband]

Absolutely! So true! That plus a great performance (playing/singing skills + emotion).

[@angermanagementstudios]

So true brother.

[@wildbird78]

Interesting theory as I have been DIY'ing for decades and my DIY songs have been used on The Today Show and NBC Golf just to name a couple.I think a better title could be "Why DIY Recording Doesn't Work For Some" :)

[@theselfrecordingband]

I think the key here is “DIY’ing for decades”. You obviously put in a lot of work to get good at all the different jobs that are part of making a record. Most people don’t realize that this is what it takes. And you probably didn’t figure it all out on your own but got help from someone at some point, right? Or did you really do it without any kind of feedback, mentoring or hiring pros at some point, so you could learn from them? Or at least books, courses or any kind of structured information?

[@user-vb8ld4on2u]

When my goal became to record and mix records that stack up to the local artists I like that either record at budget studios or DIY REALLY well, my productions changed for the better. Literally only doing it because I'm broke though, will gladly outsource everyone when I have the means. Would love recording other bands demos eventually.

[@theselfrecordingband]

@@user-vb8ld4on2u keep crushing it! You’ll get there! Spend your resources wisely and invest in yourself as much as you can before spending it on anything else. Don’t waste money on gear. Spend time and money to acquire skills, to build relationships and to get the feedback and guidance that’s gonna get you to your goals so much faster.

[@matanmayzner9310]

Tame Impala does it completely on his own and DIY

[@theselfrecordingband]

Great example, thanks! And yes, that's (almost) true. There are professional mastering engineers involved in his records, but for the most part it is Kevin Parker. The important questions are: How did he learn it? How long did it take him? How much effort went into it? How much did he invest into learning it and into making these records? What did it take in terms of sacrifices in other areas of his life? Etc. 100% guaranteed that the answers to all of these questions are on a completely different level and not even close to what the average DIY musician is doing, or willing to do or what most people think it takes to do that. Not to mention his absolutely incredible talent and the genre that lends itself really well to experimenting with unconventional recording techniques etc. So yeah, if you can confidently compare yourself to Kevin Parker and are able to do whatever he did, then you have a chance! :) Again, a really great example and a true outlier. Thanks for posting this!

[@matanmayzner9310]

Thanks for the reply!Great question that I’m always asking as a producer myself, wondering what helped him to progress his skills so fast - was it a very stressful period of learning or simply by making music under the pressure to create something outstanding that a big artist as him probably experienced, and all in all, is there a method/strategy he’d recommend for someone who’d like to do it too

[@justinp.3256]

​@theselfrecordingband yea it's like saying Skrillex is 100% DIY. That's true, but the many years he was in his band, he was in studios and I'm sure he picked up on recording techniques/mixing techniques/general studio skills.

[@theselfrecordingband]

@@justinp.3256100%

[@93thelema777]

Cecilia by Simon and Garfunkle was made without professional help . Just Simon and Garfunkel messing around with a portable Nagra tape recorder .

[@theselfrecordingband]

Well, not really. Producer Roy Halee helped them create the tape loop, a few elements were recorded at Columbia studios and the drums were played by professional drummer and Wrecking Crew member Hal Blaine. Plus, it was a single off their fifth studio record. So they had plenty of professional experience already. Still a cool project, though! And a really good hybrid DIY example. Especially back then it was very unusual and impressive to do it like that.

[@93thelema777]

@@theselfrecordingband All I knew was that the main percussion part didn't use any drums and was cut from a longer tape of them playing around with a nagra - improvising on anything in local proximity they could tap a beat from . Then they took a good section of that session and looped it to around 3 mins . On Howard Stern Simon said that their were no drums used when Howard started playing Cecilia . It wouldn't surpise that CBS's producer used the wrecking crew to finish it off (Overkill?) , Still , the core of that track is that beat with the addition of acoustic guitar and vocals . If Simon was so inclined , he could of made a great demo using nothing but his 4-track? portable tape recorder . There's a lot of good folk recordings of artists just doing one take into a stereo reel-to-reel which was then just mixed down . Jeff Lyne used a consumer 4 track Beocord Duluxe . Analog systems/studio time forced artists to come to the studio prepared to wrap in very few takes . DAW's and certain plugins have taken the weight off of artists onto producers - or rather , the art now is as much in the production as opposed to the performance . Still , if you can sound great in an intimate controlled live setting , it's not too hard to get a high quality recording . If you're aiming for a Daniel Lanois-esq dynamic finished product , that's just not 'DIY' - If a pro plumber fixes his bathroom , he may have done it himself but that's not the general understanding of what it means to be a DIY effort .

[@davidduarte2887]

Option 1 I think is the best when you’re first starting out. But make sure you hire a pro that is happy to share info as you go. Then option 2 after you’ve had that initial professional experience so you know the attention to detail needed and how good you can sound. Option 3 will waste your entire life if your goal is to have a professional sounding commercial recording. It’s only a viable option once you actually have a ton of experience and are a pro yourself.

[@theselfrecordingband]

@@davidduarte2887 Great way to think about it! Thanks for this!

[@angermanagementstudios]

Also: love the channel! New sub here lads!

[@theselfrecordingband]

Thank you so much! Welcome! 🙌

[@davidduarte2887]

What’s with these silly comments? Everything you guys said is 100% true. Our individualistic society has people thinking they don’t need anybody else to help with anything. I see really talented people all the time trying to make their own records 100% DIY and that’s 100% ego. It doesn’t really save them money in the long run either because they spend so much time going back and forth “is this good enough?”, “am I good enough?”, etc taking years to accomplish a mediocre version of what they could’ve done and learned in months had they just checked their ego and hired a pro even if for just one song. Do that a couple times and invest in learning the craft and you’ll be years ahead of just doing it all on your own.

[@theselfrecordingband]

@@davidduarte2887 thank you so much for this comment! Yes, it’s always sad to see someone make a record that could have been so much better. And that they are not really proud of. What a waste of time and talent. Your art is important. Give it the care and attention it deserves. Completely different story if you love the result and the process, though! In that case, do whatever makes you happy! But for most people this is not the case if they are being honest. So many never even release it because they think it’s not good enough. Or they release it but never promote it properly because they are not 100% stoked about it. “Great” or “great sounding” is highly subjective, but I think we can all agree that you as the artist should love it. And enjoy the process, as well. And that the ultimate goal is to make your vision come out of the speakers. Which is really hard to do.

[@RetroGameBench]

sounds like the sales pitch of every snake oil vendor ever! :)

[@theselfrecordingband]

@@RetroGameBench Thanks for commenting! What do you mean exactly? The episode? Or people trying to sell you the idea that you can do it all on a high level completely on your own, if you just consume their content or apply their “secret”? Because the point of this episode is exactly to show you that it takes hard work to get to that high level. A LOT of hard work. And that you probably won’t be able to do it all super well on your own. Which is the truth. Not trying to sell snake oil here. Quite the opposite, actually. :)

[@ChuckWasHere]

An hour long sales pitch? Come on, man. There's a lot of great info these guys are sharing in this episode. All they're saying is that it's very difficult to be all things in the area of music production. I'm sure you can build a house from scratch if you're handy, but will your DIY house job be as solidly built as one that you had contracted out to professionals? Not unless you're a skilled professional in every area of house-building.

[@theselfrecordingband]

@@ChuckWasHerethanks so much for this, dude! Exactly what we’re trying to say! 🙌

[@RetroGameBench]

@@ChuckWasHere if you don't know how a house is built, there is a more likely chance that somebody will build a crappy house for you. clearly you don't know what you are talking about.

[@ChuckWasHere]

@@RetroGameBench Yikes

[@buddydudeguy5859]

Best DIY recording ever? Tom Scholz - Boston.

[@theselfrecordingband]

Gotta look that one up! Thanks for sharing!

[@buddydudeguy5859]

@@theselfrecordingband Released in 1976, so probably before your time. 😁 At that point, it was the biggest selling debut record ever, and it has stood the test of time. You'll be impressed.

[@kevinpaige5746]

Prince is the ultimate DIY artist. But,,,,,,if you listen to his greatest DYI album, "1999", it does sound a little "less-than". Of course, the artistry is overwhelming and makes up for any lack of sonic mastery. But, I do wish that record was slightly higher-fi.

[@theselfrecordingband]

I mean, in a way yes. But he had a professional team running his studio. Pretty much doing exactly what we talk about here. Building a team. Focusing on what you’re good at. Delegating or getting help with the rest. He was the producer. But not all the other roles (engineer, editor, tech, etc) Btw. we had Hans-Martin Buff as a guest on our show. He was Prince’s engineer for many years. You’re gonna love the episode! :)

[@markaxiak4798]

There is no substitution for experience. In this case, studio experience.

[@theselfrecordingband]

Absolutely!

[@paulndorosh]

It really depends on the arrangement. Recording for a single classical guitar is much different than a 12 piece funk band. Also, some people are interested in learning how to do recording and enjoy the feeling of accomplishment that comes from DIY. Sure, you can get better results if you hire pro musicians and record at Abbey Road, but those who are DIYing don't exactly have truckloads of cash lying around.

[@theselfrecordingband]

Yep! Pretty much exactly what we’re saying in the episode! :) And there are affordable ways that allow you to do it all yourself and still get professional guidance. Exactly what we’re doing here all the time and why we’ve built that platform.

[@onlyghosts7152]

Fetch the Bolt Cutters

[@theselfrecordingband]

Yep, and have you read the story about that record? It took five years. And they spent several weeks at professional studios before returning to their home studio. It was a huge learning process, lots of trial and error and she was doubting her work during the mixing process, which almost caused her to give up. Feedback and objective outside perspectives got her back on track. Clearly not just someone thinking it will be easy. And also not someone trying to do it all on their own quickly.

[@onlyghosts7152]

@@theselfrecordingband No offense but a record is going to take as along as it takes. There are highly produced records that take years to come together but fall short of being a highlight of an artist’s catalogue. Some records have you fighting tooth and nail to get the songs out or have already come together from years of playing them on the road or at home, early Daniel Johnston records come to mind and so does Roman Candle from Elliott Smith. All to say there are great DIY releases that people enjoy from all different genres. I don’t know guys, I just see making music as an art and something cathartic, if it takes 20 years to write a song on your own then that’s time well spent if the process is fulfilling. If you’re speaking to someone trying to “make it” I guess it helps but that’s definitely not everyone. I really do understand the sentiment and perspective here but I don’t see it as the end all be all. I’m sure Fiona was happy in retrospect with her approach and time spent, she’s notorious for having huge gaps of time between albums, collecting experiences and ideas along the way. Despite it all it really is a hugely successful DIY album at it’s core, with enough time and experience the simplest tools can craft something great.

[@theselfrecordingband]

@@onlyghosts7152 I think we absolutely agree here! :) What I was trying to say is that this project is a “DIY” production. But “DIY” in this case (and most cases) is not what most people think it is. She learned a lot (from professionals) and she was willing to put in a lot of effort. You obviously understand that. And you’re correct in what you’re saying. It definitely is all about the art and the process and about being proud of it and enjoying it yourself more than anything. It’s not about “making it”. Not at all. But people hear “DIY”-record and think it doesn’t take experience, or learning from pros who have done it before, or any sort of investment (time and/or money). But it definitely does. Most won’t be willing to spend five years on a record, or go to pro studios for a few weeks (which is really expensive) to record there and learn, etc. They would have given up. And they expect amazing results way too quickly and without putting in nearly enough effort, time or money.

[@onlyghosts7152]

@@theselfrecordingband I can see that but I would also say that amateur records can be amazing too. I definitely agree with tempering expectations but if that’s understood than I’m all for going in on a project with no experience if you’re passionate about it. Learning on the fly can be creatively fulfilling for a lot of people, we all have to start somewhere. I think it’s good to minimize the barrier for entry if it means trying stuff and taking risks. It’s always an option to incorporate more help and production too.

[@atomkraftstudios]

Eurythmics was DIY.

[@theselfrecordingband]

Interesting! Gotta look up how they learned and who exactly was involved in which way. Thanks for sharing!

[@Ankobiotics]

Great topic. You're absolutely correct in that 99% of people don't know how to do it all (setup + room treament, recording, mixing, and mastering) correctly. And when you try to explain why they've produced audio fecal matter, they don't get it. It's really hard to communicate to a person that the reason their DIY recording is really bad is because they did the entire thing wrong and they now have to redo it. A lot of what separates a great recording from a bad recording is the attention to detail. Convincing people they got the details wrong is more difficult than actually getting them right. I do wonder if the current podcast gold rush is unintentionally creating better DIY recordings -- specifically, better vocal recordings. For example, if a fat woman in Brazil starts a podcast about her weight loss journey, but then she notices her podcast doesn't sound as good as another fat womans podcast that also talks about weight, the first woman will probably start googling and youtubing information to make her podcast sound better. It's like if you have the same AC as your best friend but when you're at their house, you notice their AC is much colder than yours. You'll want to find out why; maybe it's the room size, maybe it's the placement of the AC, maybe it's the compressor in yours, maybe there's a setting difference etc. Anyway, great episode!

[@theselfrecordingband]

Thanks for listening and commenting! Glad you like the episode! And yes, attention to detail is super important! PS: I assume you didn't mean to offend or hurt anyone, but I don't think the "fat woman" part was necessary and I'd love to keep this a safe space for everyone. So please consider that on future comments. Thank you! -Benedikt

[@Ankobiotics]

@@theselfrecordingband No problem!

[@electriceyeswatching4415]

Talk sabout " professional" then goes on to talk about quantizing drums. " Drum editing" I'm sorry but your lifeless generic mixes might sound polished but they're boring to listen to.

[@theselfrecordingband]

You will be surprised to hear that almost every record ever has been edited in some way. :) Including the very organic ones. Editing can mean a lot of different things. It’s not about making it generic or lifeless. It’s not about always quantizing it 100% to the grid. Not at all. It’s about being intentional. About making it feel exactly the way it is supposed to feel. And often the performance needs a little help to accomplish that. Sometimes it doesn’t. It has been done on tape and people still do it now. It’s part of making a great record and if it’s done right, you won’t even notice. How much you need to do totally depends on the genre, the vision for the record, the players, the performances and personal preference. No rules at all, here. That’s part of being a professional engineer/producer. Being open minded and knowing exactly what the song needs.

[@VavShin]

@@theselfrecordingband One of the greatest records ever is rage against the machines debut album. Recorded in a live setting with minimum overdubs. And for me, that's an ideal I want to move more towards for the band I'm playing with as well. When we record drums to a metronome, then our band leader edits the drums, and does a lot of quantizing and editing, and I record bass over that drum track, wich again gets quantized and edited... I feel that a lot of musicality is lost.

[@theselfrecordingband]

@@VavShinYep, whatever feels great and gives you the right vibe for the record! There’s no right or wrong approach.

[@CrummyVCR]

WHACK.

[@theselfrecordingband]

Well, thanks for taking the time to leave a comment! :)