Why do Calvinists believe the Gospel? | Dr. Leighton Flowers | Dr. Braxton Hunter | Soteriology 101

Dr. Braxton Hunter, President of Trinity Seminary and host of Trinity Radio, joins Dr. Flowers to discuss a clip from a sermon by well know Calvinistic pastor, Dr. Voddie Bauchman (original sermon found here: • Why I choose to Believ... ).
To learn more about Braxton and Trinity Radio, click here: www.youtube.co...
To SUPPORT this broadcast please click here: soteriology101...
Is Calvinism all Leighton talks about? soteriology101...
Dr. Flowers’ book, “The Potter’s Promise” and his book, “God’s Provision for All” can be found here: www.amazon.com...
DOWNLOAD OUR APP:LINK FOR ANDROIDS: play.google.co....
LINK FOR APPLE: apps.apple.com....
To ORDER Dr. Flowers Curriculum “Tiptoeing Through Tulip” please click here: soteriology101...
To listen to the audio only be sure to subscribe on iTunes, Stitcher, Google Play or one of the other podcast players found here: soteriology101...
For more about Traditionalism (or Provisionism) please visit www.soteriology101.com
To engage with other believers cordially join our Facebook group: / 1806702782965265
For updates and news follow us at: soteriology101
Or @soteriology101 on Twitter
Please SHARE on Facebook and Twitter and help spread the word!
To learn more about other ministries and teachings from Dr. Flowers go here: soteriology101....
Go to www.ridgemax.co for all you software developing needs! Show them some love for their support of Soteriology101!
To become a Patreon supporter or make a one time donation: soteriology101...
Thanks for watching.
#Leighton Flowers #Predestination #Calvinism #Provisionism #Calvinist #Salvation

[@paulmann9154]

Love these 2 guys. One point I struggle with is the idea that we agree 99% with calvanists, then at that point we go in different directions. The points that cause us to go in different directions are massive. Limited atonement and unconditional election aren't even in the Bible. God ordained all sin and evil? People are doomed from the womb with no hope? 2 wills of God, where is that? We are not saved through faith? I have been threatened by a calvinist and have seen how some have treated Leighton. Many calvinists continually lie by missrepresenting us while fully knowing our views. I'm sorry, but I see a much greater divide.

[@Th3BigBoy]

Because you aren't bound by a false sense of decorum, like the academics and seminarians are.

[@bobbyadkins6983]

It's like this difference of night and day. We definitely don't agree 99% with Calvinists.

[@JamesBrown-fd1nv]

Galatians 5:9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. God agrees with you AND I. I think that it is being cowardly to pretend that you are showing love when others spit satanic falsehoods on the Bible. Anything that a heretical systematic has that is correct comes from the source of truth, and that means that we should completely disregard their works in our ministry and study. Find like minded people and support them.

[@Th3BigBoy]

@JamesBrown-fd1nv I love what you just said. It speaks to my point and exceeds it. Cowardice and fear of conflict have bound the Ecclesia. We need to be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might.

[@timfoster5043]

> The points that cause us to go in different directions are massive. It all boils down to the presuppositions one brings to the discussion table. If a person is coherent and consistent, they will necessarily diverge on various issues. But the divergence is a result - a symptom. Without discussing the underlying issues (which rarely happens on a LF video), you're talking past each other. True.

[@shepherd7744]

Praying for you Brother Leighton, keep pressing on, our Father is using this channel to open the eyes of the people that has been deceived by this horrible doctrine of calvinism. This channel will be at 500,000 subs before you know it, just keep pluggin along Brother, you're making a major difference!!!

[@bobbyadkins6983]

I've heard Calvinists say that arminians pray like Calvinists when they pray for their lost loved ones to get saved. Well I must say that Calvinists preach like arminians or something else when they preach salvation messages trying to get people saved. They preach like people have a choice which they don't really believe.

[@DamonNomad82]

That's because Calvinists learned long ago through experience that preaching Calvin to unbelievers doesn't produce more Calvinists, only doubly resolved unbelievers who are rightly horrified by the grotesque and evil parody of God that Calvinism portrays. Some Calvinist preachers have actually advised to "preach like an Arminian", because they know that has a much higher success rate of converting unbelievers to believers. Of course, after they get converts by preaching the actual gospel that isn't consistent with what they actually believe, they brainwash them into Calvinism, becoming uncomfortably like the scribes and Pharisees when they provoked this rebuke from Jesus: “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves." (Matthew 23:15)

[@Gablesman888]

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. Preachers must present the gospel knowing full well that it is only the Holy Spirit that gives and informs the unbeliever to choose Christ. How does a lost person go about ever knowing that the truth of God is the truth of God? The lost person is dead in trespasses and sin, not mostly dead or somewhat dead, but dead. Completely spiritually dead. The lost person's will is not free. It is in bondage. It will never come to Christ without the electing deliverance of God Almighty. Suppose you are at an evangelistic meeting and you respond to the gospel and the person sitting beside you does not. Why did you come to Christ and your friend did not? Were you just more righteous than the person next to you? Were you just practically a Christian already? Were you born into the right set of circumstances? Did God grant you a heavenly Mulligan? For by grace we are saved through faith and that [the grace and the faith] are not of ourselves, they are the gift of God. Grace is unmerited favor and it is a gift. Now who chooses whether or not a gift is given, that is, the circumstances of whether or not the gift happens? It is God. That is sovereign election. That is God making good on saving you from the foundation of the world. Any other possibility and you are not talking about grace, but some sort of obligation that God owes you. And for a person to believe that, they are not believing in biblical salvation but rather that they can save themselves. When I discovered that I was chosen it changed my life like nothing else ever. I realized that before that I had been living the Christian life in low gear. The dials were turned down. Jesus turned the lights up to full brightness. Since discovering God's doctrines of grace my growth in Christ has grown exponentially. Praise His holy name.

[@bobbyadkins6983]

@@Gablesman888 A person who has been enlightened by the Holy Spirit can then make a choice of whether to accept the invitation or reject it. Lots of people have been enlightened but have rejected the invitation. Acts 7:51-53 [51]Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. [52]Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: [53]Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it. Acts 24:25 [25]And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee.

[@chrislucastheprotestantview]

Great point at about the 24:00 - 28:00 mark Why do Apologetics if you are a calvinist, and why not just approach evangelism presuppositionally? And the 28:00 "proclaim it like proclaiming it matters" because it does not really since "God decreed it". It's almost as if "the world is just a stage". It is almost as if everything is a lie. Which makes me wonder what god they believe in. And 35:00 to 37:00 mark is good point that adds to this point

[@dw6528]

DW: There is a form of thinking which is integral to Calvinism - which is called *AS-IF* thinking - which is a natural byproduct of a belief in Determinism. *AS-IF* thinking is common to both Theological Determinists (aka Calvinists) as well as Atheist Determinists. Sean Carroll (Theoretical physicist - Atheist Determinist) -quote Every person in the world, no matter how anti-free-will they are, talks about people *AS-IF* they make decisions. Stephen Hawking (Atheist Determinist) -quote I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined and that we can do nothing to change it look before they cross the street. (Black Holes, Baby Universes and Other Essays) William Lane Craig -quote Nobody can live *AS-IF* all that he thinks and does is determined by causes outside of himself. Every determinist recognizes he has to act *AS-IF* he has option(S) to weigh, and can decide on what course of action to take….. (Determinism is unlivable) John Calvin -quote “Hence as to future time, because the issue of all things is hidden from us, each ought to so to apply himself to his office *AS-IF* nothing were determined about any part.” (Concerning the eternal predestination of god) This is why there is so much DOUBLE-SPEAK inherent within Calvinist statements. The Calvinist mind is conditioned to assert determinism is TRUE. But he cannot live coherently with determinism and at the same time - retain a sense of human normalcy. Thus the Calvinist asserts his doctrine is TRUE - while treating his doctrine *AS-IF* it is FALSE. The Calvinist must find a reason to evangelize - even though it is a contradiction to his doctrine - because he needs to retain an *APPEARANCE* of being consistent with scripture.

[@chrislucastheprotestantview]

@@dw6528 I was wondering why, when I was coming out of atheism and new age and was going back to church with fresh eyes, why it felt as if I was having the same things, but painted differently, pushed on me. It led to me feeling lost and stopped going to church.but I knew nothing of calvinism, and had no idea people at church would think like this. it wasn't just one, but I tried 50-100 different churches in one year. And alot of them taught calvinism. It wasn't until recently, maybe past 2 years, I started looking into calvinism and the past 2 months really have been researching it. And now I see where many of my issues stemmed from that caused me to leave twice

[@dw6528]

@@chrislucastheprotestantview DW: You have a wonderful testimony!! The Lord has been faithful to you - and set a light before your feet - so that you can see and discern these things. It is unfortunate that Calvinists are so intent on indoctrinating people with their system - that they would resort to dishonest means to do so. But that is the reality we are faced with today. Calvinism is a belief system in conflict with itself. And that is why there is a certain degree of dishonesty which is inherent within it. The Calvinist learns to lie to himself. He is taught a process which manifests as a kind of *SELF-GAS-LIGHTING* That is why Calvinism is a system of DOUBLE-SPEAK. Dr. Flowers has a wonderful ministry! He cares about honesty within the church. May the Lord continue to shine his flash-light of truth before you - and let you further discover the unfortunate deceptive aspects of Calvinism - so that you are not influenced by them. Blessings!

[@SisterBaby]

It's hard to believe that y'all consider this topic (a Calvinist soteriology) to be a "secondary doctrinal issue." Its foundation (sovereign determinism) is so b-r-o-a-d and, therefore, far-reaching--- into the nature of man, the atonement, God's nature & attributes, the authority of Scripture alone, the Holy Spirit and regeneration, and the security of the believer-- that I can hardly consider it a "secondary issue."

[@JohnnyStuttle]

That’s right. Calvinists have a whole other Jesus and a whole other gospel. If there were really such thing as “secondary” issues, that would not be one of them. There are no secondary issues in Christianity. If the Bible is really God’s word, then everything in it is absolutely essential. There is nothing in it that we can read and say, “oh that’s no that important.”

[@truthseeker5698]

@@JohnnyStuttle Yes, there is no way to coalesce the conclusions of Jesus the Messiah/Father/Spirit with the god of reformed theology / calvinism.I Sot 101 ministry and others choose to engage on varying levels. I see this as one body many parts role of these ministries as they address recovering reformers /calvinists and those who still subscribe. Maybe when Sot 101 becomes a teenager a more defiant attitude will shine through .

[@R.L.KRANESCHRADTT]

Agreed... 100%. I suggest asking a Calvinist if they think it's a 'secondary issue'. 😎Perhaps they would agree .... at least until they achieve a position of leadership or authority. After that, if you don't embrace TULIP you are being divisive and rejecting Godly authority. They seldom afford the same 'grace' to others which was afforded them once they are driving the bus. This "Secondary Issue" concept is demonstrated by a common thought which is sometimes proffered by those wishing to "get along" from both sides of the aisle regarding TULIP in a body of believers. It is said, "I believe you are saved, and you believe I am saved... what difference does it make how we believe we got saved?"🤷‍♂ . Here's the BIG DIFFERENCE in my opinion. I do not believe affirming TULIP doesn't keeps someone from being saved, no matter how confused they may become about "how" it happened. The problem is that doctrine undermines a believer’s personal relationship with God. This is true because no one ever knows for an absolute certainty that they are truly loved by God and “elected” to salvation. Even R. C. Sproul confessed doubting his own “election”. It's a common Calvinist problem. Consequently, Calvinism plants the seed of doubt that God might not really, truly, love you... personally. THAT is NOT a “Secondary Issue” in my opinion. I believe God truly loves all of his creation and is not willing that any should perish, Calvinists do not accept that at face value... HOWEVER, God's love for a professing 'believer' in Christ must never be in question.... NEVER. But because TULIP teaches that what a man believes about Christ is only by God’s decree, the only way to explain apostacy is to admit this too is only by God's decree. Once you accept you worship a God who will do that to som... you can never know he's going to do it to you. It's easy to see that under these circumstances there can be no basis for a loving relationship with God. Christ died to make that relationship possible with our Heavenly Father and Calvinism puts the fly of 'doubt' in the ointment and Satan smiles. Calvinism cannot help but bring God's character into question, it casts a very long shadow. Satan always attacks God's character.... always. If you find yourself defending the nature and character of the God you worship from the claims of your own doctrine... perhaps you should reconsider your doctrine. Augustine and John Calvin did not invent the lie which evolved into TUILP. ... The fell for it. It's not a "Secondary Issue".

[@truthseeker5698]

@@R.L.KRANESCHRADTT Amen, I could have used your post when I was 15 and first introduced to calvinism. I spoke out against these doctrines though awkward alone and way outnumbered in Sunday school youth group. The Lord Jesus my friend was not who so many were saying He was. I had several years of knowing Him before being exposed to reformed church ways. I can still feel the burn of those tumultuous youth group times as these cruel cold theologies were indulged by youth leaders and pastors.

[@annikaelisaa1879]

I agree. We can’t call Jehovah Witnesses and Mormonism cults yet call Calvinism a “secondary issue” Different gospel, different God.

[@seekthetruth824]

Braxton, you always come off very kind, keep up the humility! Both of you do. Thanks a lot.

[@salvadaXgracia]

The "assurance" in Calvinism that everything you experience first passed through His hands only works if nothing terrible has ever happened to you. When you go through real tragedy or abuse or pain, or if someone you love does and you can sympathise with them, that's when you start to feel alone and have a terrifying fear of God. If God is the one doing this to me for his own glory, he can't really love me, if he is happy to do this to me to get more glory for himself and who knows what horrific thing he may do next to get even more glory for himself? It's hard to trust a God like that or want to be around him. Rather than realizing that Satan is the enemy and God grieves with us and all the evil that happens is not his will and someday he will punish Satan for all the evil he did.

[@a.k.7840]

Oof... what a gut punch to a person's faith that would be. God getting glory at the expense of not only the reprobate, but the elect as well...

[@Freed98]

Job?

[@a.k.7840]

@@Freed98 Job would be (if he were a real person) an exception, not the rule, but when it comes to biblical evidence for determinism, the exception is nearly always treated as if it's the rule.

[@israelmacario3853]

I guess I am one of the few that doesn't like Voodie's style. Now that he is older he comes across as prideful and condescending.

[@dfischer5878]

I’d say the opposite he is always humble.

[@paulmann9154]

I don't know the man that well. But 2 things I know: Calvinists on the whole are fairly arrogant. There is even a youtube vid showing calvinists addressing this issue and accepting the accusation. Secondly, Voodie has made several fairly ridiculous quotes. "Vipers in dipers" and "Dead men don't grab." They aint very clever things to say.

[@PSUJerseyGirl]

His daughter is refuting what he believes and is non-denominational. I don't his teaching. I won't ever consider him a good preacher.

[@TheHillrat4wd]

I read an article a while back that linked a lot of personality traits with calvinist with strikingly similar traits with narcissist, just food for thought

[@titosantiago3694]

Exactly right! No matter how charismatic, anointed, or true the message is, as soon as I know they're Calvinist-they're message no matter how powerful and true it is because of Charismatic doctrines self-implodes.

[@graftme3168]

Calvinists do NOT believe the Gospel. A vital teaching of the Gospel is that Jesus died for the whole world. In my estimation, denial of this is a denial of the Gospel. It is ANOTHER gospel, and we know what that means for those who preach another gospel.

[@bobbyadkins6983]

It definitely perverts or corrupts it.

[@theeternalslayer]

It's no different then atheism as I see it. Calvanists often say "you're misrepresenting us!" I think that shows us how God feels about their theology. That they misrepresent him.

[@quickattackfilms7923]

I would genuinely love a deep dive into the nature of man. Like I feel this channel needs to switch to “Anthropology 101” lol. Because I would love to have a solid biblical understanding of what exactly the fall of Adam did to us. Because I find the Bible doesn’t weigh in on the topic as much as Augustine thought it did. Or at least not in his favor. As of right now, I personally don’t think the nature of man changed a whole lot from when we were in Eden to when we were exiled. I believe what changed was our relationship with and the presence of God. I don’t see the Bible teaching about how the sin of man in the garden corrupted his very nature… but I’m so hesitant to take a firm stance on that because I genuinely don’t wanna be heretical.

[@CC-ii3ij]

Leighton & Braxton: You are each kind and brilliant! I love your responses to Brent.

[@bobbyadkins6983]

A Calvinist cannot believe 99% the same way as a non-Calvinist.

[@amadeusasimov1364]

That is quite a good sermon Voddie gave. Thanks for sharing this. I appreciate the way you press for Calvinists to be consistent with their Calvinism, in order to highlight how inconsistent it is with the practice of living out Christianity.

[@a.k.7840]

And to a similar extent, that makes it inconsistent with scripture I'd say.

[@Azurewroth]

People who believe determinism to be true cannot make truth claims without being inconsistent, because a truth claim is built on the assumption that humans are objectively capable of discerning the truth. The Gospel itself is a truth claim. If however, total divine determinism is true, then said assumption fails because the ability to discern truth lies not in the person assessing it but is rather entirely determined directly or indirectly, by God himself. Trying to convince someone of the truth is therefore a completely meaningless exercise on the Calvinist part because belief is independent of the person doing the convincing or the person assessing it. Perhaps that is why when many Calvinists debate they are not actually there to reason with you objectively, they are just trying to presume that their perspective is true and see whether God would grant you the ability to see it. That would explain why they insert circular reasoning fallacies into the many redefinitions they have fabricated for themselves.

[@drittenberry1]

Thank You ✝️

[@PamalaNEW]

Doesn't the Bible give instructions on how to handle those who are teaching FALSE DOCTRINE? ERROR? I believe it does. So with that my question is why is there a constant conversation or debate over how it's being handled when the Bible gives clear instruction on how to do?

[@MyRoBeRtBaKeR]

Jesus is the expressed image, the mirror image. I always use this analogy that if you take a chunk of clay and pinch a piece of clay off of the chunk, you may have two separate pieces but they both remain clay.

[@edwardzamudio9610]

Appreciate your talks on Calvinism but I have big issues about your esteem Voddie what he say sound so right on but you can say that about Mormons, JW, Catholics and Hindus, Muslim's and so on. Calvin teaching is cults that has them addictive to there TULIP GUIDE that's puts them in bondages and lead a lot of innocence people astray. Has taking lots of churches away from the truth. So don't be so dam nice about them. Its a faults doctrine and it needs to be openly rebuke for what it really is.

[@keiarahjohnston9887]

Thank you....well said. !!

[@chris20874]

Agreed.

[@salvadaXgracia]

I used to be Calvinist for 11 years. I can tell you God used both really sweet kind non-Calvinists and more blunt and bold non-Calvinists in bringing me and my husband out and showing us the truth. I was shaken up by hearing some people are vehemently opposed to Calvinism and it gave me pause and made me wonder why. When I saw Leighton's Romans 9 video, I was convinced. But for my husband even Leighton was too hard on Calvinists and he didn't like him at all but he liked Mike Winger who is even more kind and gentle and gracious. So God used Mike to help bring my husband out. I think Christ uses many different parts of his Body with manu different jobs and ways they do their jobs to help people see the truth. 😊❤

[@bobbyadkins6983]

@@salvadaXgracia Good point.

[@dfischer5878]

There is zero truth to that statement. Reformed theology is biblical theology in other words.

[@0114sunshine]

How do you answer a Calvinist who uses Jeremiah 1:5 to prove their point that we are already predestined from the beginning?

[@CristOportunidad]

Always point out the distinction between the predestination in the bible and the predestination calvinists refer to. The bible affirms predestination but calvinists assume that God also predestines everything that humans do, making him the author of evil. Always important to define loaded terms in those convos so that confusion is minimized

[@michaeldesmond340]

You may think that the following comment is too harsh or uncharitable, but I have a massive moral problem with Voddie's Viper's in Diaper's comments. The following are REASONS why I take this to be a MORAL issue: 1) That comment is dehumanizing. Dehumanizing language is used by genocidal maniacs, eugenicists, and ethnic cleansers to garner moral support for their evil. Please note: I AM NOT CALLING VODDIE A GENOCIDAL MANIAC. I am saying dehumanizing language is a tool used by such evil people and we had best not emulate them. Emulating evil is evil IMO. 2) That comment has no good application, and only evil applications. If you found a nest of vipers in your house, what would you do? I would set forth to eradicate them. Is Voddie advocating for us to eradicate all our children? I don't think so, but what is supposed to be the application to "your kids are evil, revolting, and dangerous?" I'm open to anyone who wants to give me a justifiably good application to the comment that all children are vipers in diapers. 3) That comment is an unbiblical lie. The Bible never once says or even implies that children are evil, snakes, harmful, or dangerous. Lying (deliberately misrepresenting the truth) is immoral, I'm sure you agree. That's my opinion. Respond or push back as it seems good to you. God bless!

[@LoveAndLiberty02]

#3) I agree with you Mr. Desmond. Children are born neither righteous nor sinful, they are born innocent, however according to the scriptures they go astray at a young age - and it is most definitely not while they are infants and have no moral awareness.

[@truthseeker5698]

Listen to Paul Washer talk about the child and it’s dads silver watch. Absolute lunacy coming from VB and PW.

[@l-cornelius-dol]

Just for the record, presuppositionalism not only presupposes that the Christian Gospel is true, but as a method of evangelism also presupposes that the hearer secretly believes it to be true in their heart and that they willfully deny it. Thus it proceeds with the assumption that the unbeliever fundamentally lacks intellectual integrity.

[@marcc325]

2 Corinthians 4:4 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

[@l-cornelius-dol]

@@marcc325 Genesis 1:11 And God said, “Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind, on the earth.” And it was so.

[@marcc325]

@@l-cornelius-dol I was just pointing out that it's not a lack of intellectual integrity that causes the unbelief. They either think that this life is the end all/be all or believe in reincarnation or perhaps gnosticism. God bless!! 🙂

[@l-cornelius-dol]

@@marcc325 : If that was your intent, then you should have actually done so, not simply dropped a scripture proof-text. I actually agree with you, but presuppositional apologists would appear to, and behave as if they, disagree. More often than not they communicate and respond as if the hearer is being deliberately obtuse, and the method assumes that this is the case -- at least, that has been my observation. I find PA to be a mixed of obnoxious and embarrassing.

[@paulofell9939]

I normally agree with flowers however.... He is wrong and not Biblical on this belief. This is not a debate about how long a womans skirt is. This is a debate about the very core of who God is. Calvanist do not worship God. They worship a unloving god who only died for a few. That blatantly contradicts the Word of God. To believe calvnism means that the Bible is not a trust worthy source. It robs people of the hope and love of Christ. It denys what God did for the world. This view of allowing calvin followers to teach in church, teaches a false doctrine and leads people astray. This is why calvanism is so damaging... It has crept in everywhere and it teaches a false gospel. Why not allow muslim, Mormons, buddist etc... to teach. I mean they mention Jesus. Its hard to even find a church where God is being taught and not calvin.. flowers is confusing people. Is calvanism wrong? Does it go against the Word of God or is it true. There is no middle ground. It seems like he is still trying to hold on to oeople from his past over the truth. People are going to be led astray because he allows the fasle doctrine to be shared as truth. I know many people who were firm in evolution, witch craft and other religions who try to do what Leighton is. They will not call it false and rebuke it. They try to hang on to it. Which confuses people and allows satan to keep his foot in the door. He mentions a marriage but he is not following what the Bible says about us being unequally yoked. He is suggesting that followers of Christ accept and make a union with someone who is not a follower of Christ. He is using the worlds concept that we are called to love so we dont call out the false narrative. This is the same reason so much sin is running rampant in buildings calling theirself churches. God is not a God of confusion and His Word is trust worrhy. Not like followers of Calvin teach. I may not have the smooth speach and worldly degrees.. but this is why satan has been able to use Calvinism to destroy so many people. We have to stand against it and call it what it is. A false teaching. We can not allow false religions to be taught as truth. By allowing calvanist to teach at these conferences we are telling people we agree with them and they should be listened to. We can look at any religion and find good, find things of God, find things to agree with. That doesnt make us able to yoke with them. This is how satan works he mixes lies with truth. Rat poison isnt all bad but it is deadly. We have to stand firm on the word of God.

[@jrosier6951]

The cookie and dog poo analogy reminded me of a prophet who asked God if he could use animal dung to cook his bread instead of human dung 😅 libertarian freedom, the prophet asked and God allowed the substitution.

[@scottthong9274]

Wow you guys just cited Strobel, Wallace and Wood in one shot - the exact same three former atheists turned Christians by investigating the evidence that I always use!

[@Obrandoporlaverdad]

Been Subscribed to TR and love both you guys.

[@BraxtonHunter]

Thank you, brother

[@Obrandoporlaverdad]

@Trinity Radio Brother, I had a question, I started my education at Trinity last year even though I stopped for financial reasons but plan to continue there, I wanted to ask however if Trinity offers an education in spanish? The reason I ask is because I started a youtube channel and I'm bearly learning how to make my videos better but it is in spanish, and even though I prefer English when it comes to theology I see the great need with the Spanish speaking believers, the need for sound doctrine so I wanted to fill a gap. I ask so that I can promote Trinity in my later videos, I also wanted to ask if I can use clips of you ( also Leighton) and translate them when it comes to my quoting of theology experts and introducing provisionism to the Spanish speaking world. It would be an honor to translate clips of you guys when I get to certain topics thank you bro.

[@tonyhunterajh]

Hello Dr. Flowers. How respected are the Trinity Seminary degrees? I know the school has opted out of accreditation.

[@robertshirley624]

I loved it at 58:08 where Braxton said that he even has a friend at Soteriology 101 who talks a lot about Calvinism. Great humour. 😂

[@doubtingthomas9117]

And I’m not quite sure Leighton caught that 😂

[@chris20874]

Ok to be clear when you say "secondary issue" the secondary issue you are talking about is Voddie and others believing and saying that God predestines a little kid to be rapped and murdered for HIS glory? That's the secondary issue? When you break it down they are basically saying that God is the devil...or at least everything we would blame on the devil...is because God predestined the devil to do it....because God get's glory from it? So is this what you mean by "secondary issue"? Should we be rethinking this as a secondary issue? I mean to me the god they are talking about or believe in isn't God. Their god doesn't love everyone. Their god doesn't want everyone to be saved. Their god sends people to hell so he can get glory.

[@dfischer5878]

Erroneous “ Calvinism “ definition. Please at least be honest. Reformed theology does not teach God predestined a little kid to be raped for His glory …. Instead it teaches that He works through that situation and in good and evil ( which there can not be evil without good ) He will be glorified. God owes none of us anything, we are all hell deserving sinners living in a fallen world that is already under judgement. Reformed theology teaches that we know the depths of our sin and fall upon the mercy of God to save sinners unable to save themselves. All of grace .

[@marcc325]

​@@dfischer5878 Nah you be honest. Calvinism is hard determinism through and through. 😐

[@dfischer5878]

@@marcc325 nope God does not cause evil in people. The fall did that. He restrains it every second of every day. He causes no one to rape anyone , sin does that.

[@paulmann9154]

​@@dfischer5878 Ok, that may be your view. But being honest, we know there are different strains of calvinism. Some believe in full on determinism, not from the fall, but since before creation (Ephesians 1). Some, like John Piper and James White do believe their Westminster confession: God ordained whatsoever comes to pass. Just because you do not agree with that, doesn't mean other calvinists don't. I have heard them say as much and more. And it horrifies me.

[@dfischer5878]

@@paulmann9154 thank you for that! I will say I have listened to James White and I don’t get what you do from him . I appreciate the dialogue and wish you the best !

[@kathywaddington1978]

I need this all on a blackboard, so I write it down. Slow brain!

[@parrisheverettep]

Dr. Flowers, today for the first time , I heard the word molinist, and since listening to you I know about calvinist, armini, provisionist so on and so on. So how many different 'ist are they? It's weird hearing all of yall that I never thought of myself anything other than Baptist and I'm not sure I like that title either.

[@beeflat2896]

Arminianism, Provisionism, and Molinism are historically just ism’s that are reactions to the existence of Calvinism. Calvinist ideas started with St. Augustine around 400 A.D. Fast forward to to the 1500’s, lived John Calvin who really popularized and expanded upon Augustine’s ideas. Calvin himself says that he was heavily influenced by the teachings of Augustine. All of the early church fathers before Augustine believe free will (not Calvinism)

[@beeflat2896]

Provisionism is the newest term coined by this KZbin channel actually, but it’s really just what majority of Southern Baptists believe about soteriology. But like I said, this KZbin channel calls it Provisionism because it roles off the tongue when communicating what you believe in the context of arguing with Calvinists.

[@parrisheverettep]

@@beeflat2896 I liked it better when I only knew Jesus ism and Bible ism 😁

[@beeflat2896]

@@parrisheverettep Me too, Everett. Me too. Please never lose that child-like faith.

[@13kimosabi13]

@@beeflat2896 I’m thinking that Adam and Eve wanted to go back to innocent too => but let’s face facts => w/o head trauma or a disease like Alzheimer’s => it’s not happening on this side…..so move forward and study the word so you won’t have to be ashamed just like 2 Tim 2:15 kjv instructs you to do

[@bobbyadkins6983]

2 Peter 2:1 [1]But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. Galatians 1:6-9 [6]I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: [7]Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. [8]But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. [9]As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

[@sheilasmith7779]

It's never effective, to assume we all agree on certain things. Instead we establish a foundation first, then gain agreement, then move up to the next belief, then the next. We cannot debate if we do not agree with our opponent on the premise. The foundational (premise) on God's nature, on sovereignty, on God's behavior, on salvation, are not the same as the Calvinist....so how can we debate the nature or requirements of salvation? How can I debate the nature of dogs with someone who disagrees with my definition of a dog? Also, if I am relying on deductive reasoning to support my belief against an opponent that relies on an inductive method, how can there even be a debate?

[@sheilasmith7779]

I agree that we step over a moral line when we make claims about the condition of another person's salvation or sincerity of their beliefs, as it pertains to James White. My objection to James White is his behavior, not the sincerity of beliefs I consider in error.

[@lindajohnson4204]

"Spirit of truth" = the Holy Spirit. The Calvinist is saying that if you are saved, and have the Spirit of truth indwelling you,, you will know Calvinism is correct. The Holy Spirit is not some special, "gnostic" knowledge; He indwells all believers. John 14:17 KJV - Even the *Spirit of truth;* whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. John 15:26 KJV - But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, *even the Spirit of truth,* which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: John 16:13 KJV - *Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth:* for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

[@l-cornelius-dol]

1:24:52 / 1:49:06 "Why do Calvinists believe the Gospel?" Because they have to.

[@adriannelea1]

Isn’t this difference between feasibility & logical possibility the way Augustine was able to manipulate Pelagius’ stance on free will & create the straw-man of “Pelagianism” still being used today against non-Calvinists?

[@iAintSayDat]

27:52 This hits around one of the things I think draws people to Calvinism emotionally. Under this framework you can evangelize but explain away emotionally all the people who say no without getting as sad. At least for me it's easier to stomach "can't" as opposed to "won't".

[@a.k.7840]

This seems like the exact opposite to me. For me, it's easier to stomach people who won't believe than it is to stomach people who are helpless in that regard. Kind of like how people seem to feel sorry for animals who suffer more than they do for people who suffer.

[@makedisciples8653]

@@a.k.7840 perfect analogy. I have been reading some great testimonies of former Calvinists that got out and the darkness of it all became real. Maybe if we just explain the implications of Calvinism, they will want out (desire the real God?). When you continue to drive home that Calvinism strikes at their loved ones, they may see. It is impossible to love your own children more than God does (if only Piper understood this). Impossible

[@ACTSVERSE]

I'm still shocked by people like Braxton and Leighton who think the gospel and the nature of God, two fundamental doctrines that separate orthodox Christian belief from cults, are "secondary issues." The gospel of Calvinism includes a deity who allegedly has decreed every sin and evil and thus is far from being theHOLY HOLY HOLY God of Scripture. Furthermore, this deity has sent a messiah to die only for the sins of some people, and not all as the biblical Messiah has. These are NOT secondary issues. How can these men profess to preach a gospel if they can't discern a false gospel? You can't know the gospel if you are incapable of distinguishing the genuine gospel from a false one.

[@nathanhellrung9810]

At around the 1:10:00 mark of the video, the question was asked that if falling short is inevitable and we are going to hell for falling short, then aren't we going to hell for being born in a condition out of our control. We need to take into account though that we aren't sent to hell just because of our sins. We are sent to hell, condemned, for unbelief. So, God provided for all men the ability to avoid being condemned. So even with sin being inevitable (possible to not sin but not feasible) God remedies that for all men by providing a way for all men to avoid condemnation by belief in Christ, who did live perfectly on our behalf.

[@itsdavidstube]

Is it not a sign of libertarian free will to have "chosen" to be a Calvinist, rather than not? Are Calvinist's hiding the fact that they have been convinced in the past by someone who were a Calvinist? And then hiding that they hide this from themselves? Or, does Calvinism emerge naturally even without any input from other Calvinist instructions?

[@keiarahjohnston9887]

I'm not a Calvinist but I believe the Bible from Genesis to Revelation !!!!!

[@lbamusic]

9887, ..I do too! And my fixation on my Creator God and gratitude for His Sovereignty over the almost 82 years of the life He has given me, is no less than the free-will anti-Calvinists out there.

[@13kimosabi13]

@@lbamusic I’m not a Calvinist but can you explain how Saul’s free will decision to hunt down and kill believers in Christ Jesus was done => because my Bible says Jesus interrupted Saul on his journey and Paul came to do God’s will, NOT his own will to continuing to persecute the Jesus and the church. Thanks.

[@dw6528]

@@lbamusic DW: An unfortunate reality for the Calvinist - is that per the doctrine he is granted NO certainty of salvation. He can have a PERCEPTION of having gratitude for divine sovereignty and being saved for 82 years or more. But he is not granted the ability to discern whether or not the PERCEPTION he was infallibly decreed to have throughout his life - is an infallibly decreed FALSE PERCEPTION per divine sovereignty.

[@lbamusic]

@@13kimosabi13 im not a Calvinist either, but I believe Eternal God's will is Sovereignly done here on earth as it is in Heaven, according to Matt. 6:10 and Dan. 4:17,35. Clearly to me, God had already elected Paul to be His Servant, rather than the persecutor of the Saints that he had been. As he traveled to do more evil, God Sovereignly converted him on the highway to do His will...

[@bobbyadkins6983]

@@lbamusic Paul wasn't converted against his will. JESUS helped Paul to see the truth. Paul said he was not disobedient to the heavenly vision.

[@bornagainbeliever1429]

The only calvinist I can actually listen to is Voddie, although of course I don’t agree in his belief system (especially his description of babies/toddlers as vipers in diapers), but out of ALL the popular Calvinist preachers, he at least sounds human and has a nice voice 😆 lol!! (Although this appears to be an older video where he’s a little overpowering but more recently he seems to preach a little calmer) I could probably have a nice constructive conversation with him regarding what the Bible REALLY says about how we are saved, and not predestined before the foundation of the world, and that Jesus died for ALL sinners, and not just SOME. At this point, I can’t have a nice conversation with my calvinist relatives, they are too prideful and have been rude as well. I still love them and I’m praying every day for them💔🙏🏻

[@Clbhrdwck]

That was an awesome impression of WLC lol

[@gilbertsanchez4513]

Amen to that. I believe its because theses brother's, dont want to be offensive? But we need to speak the truth, about this seriously false doctrine.

[@janetdavis6473]

If Braxton had hair, it would diminish the wattage of his smile! You are handsome just the way you are, Braxton, and I’m sure your wife agrees!!

[@Hopefilled-hz6dg]

Paul talks about us being new creations. Why do we need a new man if our libertarian free will is intact and we just sin because of influences? Also, what about Noah and Ham after the flood? God wiped the earth clean, yet sin crept up again and God even says that He will never do that again because the intention of mans heart is evil from his youth seemingly showing that it is not the environment, but mans nature.

[@shredhed572]

The new man in Ephesians 2. In vs 21 he says they had heard Jesus and had been taught by Him. So, Jewish converts. He later says God created of the 2 (Jew and Gentile) one new man. Essentially, the Church - the saved ones, made possible without following the Law of Moses. Eph 4 Col 3 The new man. He tells them to "put on" the new man. A conscious act of the believer, towards sanctification. Something we should strive for daily, as long as we're alive on this Earth. But this is not salvific.

[@adriannelea1]

We don’t have any inhibitors on our free will just like Jesus (who “shared in our humanity” so as to “make atonement for the sins of the people” - Heb 2 14-18) didn’t have inhibitors on His free will. He lived fully human so that His righteousness would atone for our unrighteousness. The difference is that He was also fully God, and so He was able to resist all the temptations perfectly without sinning.

[@sharonlouise9759]

Wonderful! Thank you both for your ministry.

[@mattd3600]

I liked Braxton being on and "challenging" Leighton's thoughts about the means in Calvinism. The only way I can describe the means in Calvinism is that God is determining all things but He is doing so while making it look like He is not being deterministic.

[@makedisciples8653]

That’s good. Maybe something we could challenge our Calvinist friends with

[@RedRose-fr8ze]

That makes God a deceiver and a liar

[@PamalaNEW]

7:00--- SECONDARY ISSUE??? WHAT? HOW IS PREACHING A DIFFERENT JESUS AND A DIFFERENT GOSPEL CONSIDERED A SECONDARY ISSUE? BTW... THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS A SECONDARY ISSUE IN THE BIBLE! EVERY TIME SOMEONE SAYS SECONDARY ISSUE I HAVE TO BELIEVE THAT THEY ARE ALSO A FALSE TEACHER BECAUSE YOU ARE MAKING UP YOUR OWN VERSION OF TRUTH.

[@ozdoublelife]

Thank you for this, never thought about it that way. I do always hear about "secondary" issues.

[@otiscorn4538]

The most important ‘ology’ is Christology. That’s the first thing that has to be right. Everything else is based on that whether we realize it or not.

[@JamesBrown-fd1nv]

The problem with all false Christian doctrine is that the proponents of these falsehoods don't understand why God is doing his purpose. They know about elements of the truth but they don't comprehend the big picture, the main theme of the Bible. Most of the apologists focus on salvation of man, but that is not the main theme. Calvinists have no idea why predestination as they see it is completely ignorant of the questions above. Satan's war against God started before this earth and Adam was established. This earth was recreated, but Adam was created from it, and in God's image, which has a self determining will. Even before Adam knows evil the capacity to decide to obey God is part of his essence. Jesus Christ in his capacity as a sinless Son of man could have exercised his own will, but he was faithful to the purpose that the Father sent him for.

[@Salvation-Damnation]

So, you always see in like UFC or any other profesional sports how some athletes have a nickname? I suggest giving our friendly calvinist friends their very own nickname! Voddie "The Viper" Baucham! Isn't that cool?

[@DamonNomad82]

Along the same lines as that, how about James "Walking Ego" White John "Megalomania" MacArthur

[@dfischer5878]

Honest question, do we have to teach our babies to take toys from there siblings? To hit? To scream?

[@DamonNomad82]

@@dfischer5878 Honest answer: the question is a complete non-sequitur, as none of the actions you listed are inherently sinful in and of themselves.

[@dfischer5878]

@@DamonNomad82 it’s not inherently sinful to hit another or steal from them ?

[@DamonNomad82]

@@dfischer5878 No action, however destructive or harmful, is sinful to commit unless the entity doing them is aware of right and wrong and is deliberately doing them out of evil motives. Otherwise, one would have to argue that animals have a sin nature, as they routinely do far worse things than what babies do in terms of inflicting destruction and suffering on each other. If a pride of lions captured and ate a village child, it would be a terrible tragedy, but the lions would not be "sinning" by doing so, as lions don't have a sense of right and wrong. If a group of people from a rival village did the same, though, it would be a monumentally evil and sinful act because adult human beings have the full moral knowledge of how heinous such an action is. Babies don't have a sense of right and wrong. When they "hit" someone, they are merely experimenting with different muscle groups and movements, and are utterly oblivious to the fact that anyone else has feelings and that it hurts them. Likewise, babies have the impulse to grab things (and usually stick them in their mouth and cover them in drool), not out of some sinful nature but because God designed them to play that role in helping to keep themselves fed, while parents have the responsibility to keep anything that might harm them out of reach.

[@sheilasmith7779]

Yes, Braxton, and sin was also an influence in Adam and Eve's choice. Where does sin come from? Where does goodness come from? Desire. Desire, a characteristic created in us by God. But, God put NO limits on human desire. Which is why scripture warns us: "Control your desires." Once I worked out where these sins are rooted, and where goodness is rooted, I knew that our nature was not altered in anyway as a result of Adam and Eve. What we lost (among several loses) was the benefits of the Garden of Eden, which should have had more influence on Adam and Eve's choice than it did. Our challenges and disadvantages are a result of Adam and Eve's choice and God's punishment or consequences for their choice. We lost Eden and the physical presence of God. We lost the ease of living. We lost immortality, and garanteed good health. I think it is fair to claim that avoiding sinful desires is harder for us than Adam and Eve. Same human nature as Adam and Eve, different conditions and circumstance.

[@bobbymichaels]

We cannot perfectly keep the greatest commandments, to love God with ALL our heart, with ALL our mind, with ALL our soul, and with ALL our strength, nor love our neighbor as we love ourselves. Not even for one second. ONLY JESUS kept the law perfectly. Why? Sin dwells within us - Romans 7

[@Jamie-Russell-CME]

nature should be understood as a description of an aspect of a person.

[@R.L.KRANESCHRADTT]

1:30:40..... Hmmm... But if they're not yet regenerated... how can it be said they already have the 'spirit of truth'... which by default would have to be the Holy Spirit.. And, it follows that if they already "have" the 'spirit of truth/Holy Spirit' they're already saved and not in need of hearing the Gospel in order to 'become' saved.

[@lW9497]

Calvinists have no reason to share the Gospel. According to this heresy, people go to hell because God ordained it. This false teaching and the teachers who promote it should not be allowed into our churches. This is not just a minor issue. Christians need to separate themselves from this evil.

[@paulinerelph]

James 4 8 covers it for me.

[@rebsince71]

I’m convinced that Calvinists should really say that the spreading of the gospel merely “reveals” who the Christians are…That’s what their theology ultimately teaches.

[@dfischer5878]

How so please? We share the free offer of the gospel with everyone! We have no idea who the elect are so we share and God works.

[@rebsince71]

@@dfischer5878Because Calvinism teaches that your name, before you’ve done anything good or bad, right now, is either in the Lambs Book of Life, or it isn’t. There’s nothing you can do to affect that. Therefore, the spread of the gospel merely reveals who the Christians are…

[@dfischer5878]

Scripture teaches that. From genesis to revelation God saves sinners and it’s clear that it has nothing to do with anything in us less we have reason to boast. Predestination is all over scripture as is election. I never even knew what “ Calvinism” was I simply read my Bible . The fact is our will is of course in tact but the fall separated us from God and left us dead in sin and trespass; we must be made alive ( born again) since we do not seek God and I believe if we are all honest with ourselves we will know we were not seeking after God. ( I may have been looking for the things of God) So although I make decisions every day, before God’s mercy was unable to decide to choose Him. It’s so very simple, clear and gives God all the glory . I share the gospel with everyone knowing God is perfect in His ways and He will save sinners. It’s never a thought in my mind whether or not they are amongst the elect. I fully cling to “ all who call upon the name of the Lord will be saved” it’s a gospel truth but so is “ no one comes to Jesus unless the Father draws them.

[@rebsince71]

@@dfischer5878 Thanks for proving my original comment…You believe that the gospel simply reveals who God “determined” is going to heaven. We don’t accept that, nor do we believe the scripture teaches it. It is a flawed interpretation of the Word. God does indeed draw, we accept or reject. You can indeed resist His grace.

[@grizz4489]

DFischer, so let me ask you, in this passage here...." No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me. (John 6:44‭-‬45 )...... which comes first ? What is the order according to the text ? 1.) Those who have heard and learned from the Father, the Father draws them to come to Jesus OR. The Father draws people to Jesus then they hear and learn from the Father. ? Grizz

[@rodneytruitt9335]

I said I would not comment again the other day but I just can't keep silent. You were saying why did Paul try to persuade them all day. It is my understanding that he did this with the Gentiles who had no biblical foundation. He wasn't thinking he could persuade them by his arguments as you seem to be saying, meaning he was going to cause them to believe by his doing. I am sure I have heard you say that you could persuade someone to believe the gospel message, and that does seem to be the drive behind what you say. You are using all kinds of arguments, stories, etc. to try and get someone to believe, by your doing. But that is not what the bible says Paul thought about this. In 1 Cor. 3 : 6-7 says " I planted, Apollos watered, but God was causing the growth. So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who causes the growth." If there is no garden it takes a lot of effort to plant . So Paul was planting when he was persuading all day, then Apollos watered, but it doesn't take as much time or effort to water as it does to plant. But Paul knew that neither he nor Apollos was anything other than the ones bringing the message. Paul was starting from scratch with the Gentiles, laying the foundation, but Apollos was watering, building upon the foundation that Paul had spent so much time laying. He said it is God who causes the growth. I know this is not what you believe even though it says it. You seem to believe that man can persuade someone to believe because of their free will. But Paul says it is God who causes the growth, it is by His doing you are in Christ Jesus 1 Cor. 1 : 30. I know you can explain what I have said away. But everyone's bible still says it is God who causes the growth. It also says in 1 Cor. 1 : 14 " But a natural man does accept the things of the Spirit of God, ..." . I know you and other provisionists say you don't reject or deny the scriptures, you just have a different interpretation. That to me is like saying you don't deny they saying, 2+2= , but your interpretation is 5, and your interpretation is as true and valid as someone who says it is 4. Please believe the bible for what the words say , and not what someone tries to make them say, in order to fit their tradition and belief system. Thanks

[@williamakogun3673]

Braxton said he believes with all his heart that James white is a believer..hmm 'with all your heart? Is that a smart word a Christian should make? Why not just say like leighton 'I believe

[@notusedexer]

That's easy. Calvinists believe the Bible because they're destined to.

[@ozdoublelife]

LOL, love this!

[@bobbymichaels]

And I don’t understand the question, Why do Calvinists believe the gospel? In a nutshell, the gospel is the good news that Jesus came into the world to save sinners! Our soteriology is not the gospel. Jesus is. Why does any Christian believe the gospel? Because it’s the good news of salvation

[@MyRoBeRtBaKeR]

Unconditional election is not applicable. God is all good and man is all evil, we have a conundrum, how will we ever be reconciled to Him? Does God not have to choose from His own will, since we are all unworthy and incapable of seeking Him and knowing Him? He does put conditions on who He chooses, that have nothing to do with what we do or don't, or what we desire is done but by the good pleasure of His will, and you either accept His conditions or reject them. Love does not force itself on anyone but love has to be free or it isn't love.

[@atyt11]

Maybe I’m misunderstanding, but Much of your comment pre-assumes determinism. Your answers are built in to your assumptions. You use the word love, please explain love with less than two participants.

[@MyRoBeRtBaKeR]

@@atyt11 First off, pre-assuming determinism, my point is that Scripture doesn't support pre-determined sin. All that is predetermined is that it is God's will alone that is Sovereign. I have predetermined that IF my daughter disobeys I will chastise her, not that I have predetermined that she disobeys. That's what the Calvinist wants you to believe. We and children alike disobey for our lack of knowledge So love, love is not love if it demands or controls, love is freely given or it's something else. 1 Corinthians 10:4-7

[@atyt11]

@@MyRoBeRtBaKeR Ok, I did misunderstand. Sorry. I think we both agree. God has awakened all hearts to respond . Some choose Him, some do not. Romans 1 say's "They know the truth about God because he has made it obvious to them.......ever since the world was created...........So they have no excuse for not knowing God."....... "believing" is not saving ourselves, its responding to His offer to redeem us, which He asks us to do freely. He is most glorified by His grace and love not his ability to somehow force relationship with him. No glory comes from forced allegiance. You can't love God through forced allegiance anymore than your spouse or children can love you through it. If you have no ability to hate, you cannot love. If you have no choice, you are a puppet. Again. I'm sorry I misunderstood you.

[@MyRoBeRtBaKeR]

@@atyt11 No problem. We do agree.

[@BloodBoughtMinistries]

Vipers in diapers!

[@Brotheral-pb1oj]

Being as knowledgeable about calvinism as you are, and of course you are nobody's judge, yet I fail to see how you can SUPPORT in any fashion, anyone who holds to such a horrendously malevolent doctrine , no matter how gifted they are!!

[@keepitrealoriginal]

What about color code? 🤔

[@pkmcnett5649]

To what are you referring?

[@bobmann5160]

If Jesus was fully man, doesn't He have a sin nature like us? Also, why did Adam and Eve sin ? I don't see an ontological change after "the Fall". Sin and death definitely entered the world making sin impossible for anyone except Jesus who had His divinity to overcome the pull of the weak flesh. The corrupt environment along with the law stirring up sinful desires makes it impossible for anyone but Jesus to not sin. We, along with Jesus were born with a human nature. He overcame sin, we won't. IMO

[@BloodBoughtMinistries]

Jesus was born from the Holy Spirit, he did not inherit the sin nature of Adam.

[@matthewcheevers4861]

@@BloodBoughtMinistries So was Christ incapable of sinning?

[@bobmann5160]

@@BloodBoughtMinistries So He wasn't like us in every respect as to His human nature. He could never really be tempted yet without sin?

[@bobmann5160]

@@BloodBoughtMinistries Where,in scripture, does it say we are born with a sin nature?

[@bobmann5160]

@@BloodBoughtMinistries We are all born with flesh (weak as it is), but having flesh does not make one a sinner, sinning makes one a sinner.

[@matthewcheevers4861]

@Soteriology101 I appreciate you taking my questions. I am a big fan of your channel and I agree with you on your soteriological viewpoints. My questions are purely out of curiosity rather than out of trying to refute you. I would like to address the football kicker analogy you gave. Would we hold the kicker morally responsible for his inability to make every field goal? I would think not, because him not making every field goal is not out of his choice to not do so. There are outside factors that inhibit his ability to make every field goal, correct? However, let’s say someone who was a perfect field goal kicker (God) came along and could make every field goal, he would be more powerful, but would he be morally superior to the one who could not kick every field goal? I would say no.

[@coreylapinas1000]

I think you're overthinking it.

[@matthewcheevers4861]

@@coreylapinas1000 Perhaps. But I think there are some potentially serious theological implications to this dilemma. Is Christ only worthy of praise because His nature is perfect as opposed to ours which is born corrupted by sin? Would we be worthy of the same praise without this corrupted nature if we were to live a perfect life? Is that why God created the world in the way that He did? These are questions that I don’t think we can shake off as simply “overthinking it”

[@makedisciples8653]

@@matthewcheevers4861 Adam chose to sin in a perfect world. Jesus chose not to sin in a sin-soaked world. Jesus is man, the way God intended man to be . Jesus was like us in EVERY way except that He sis not sin. We are not perfect. We are broken humanity. Jesus was and is perfect. He made every field goal. Superior in every way (Hebrews). But as the Son of Man, even Jesus had to learn obedience though suffering Hebrews 5:8

[@matthewcheevers4861]

@@makedisciples8653 Thank you for taking the time to respond. I affirm everything that you are saying. I think there is just a bit of a dilemma in the whole situation that we as Christians have to just accept as unknowable right now. If Jesus makes every field goal, whereas we cannot, does that not indicate that He was simply born with an ability to make every field goal whereas we are not? Is He truly tempted the way that we are if He did not have the same inclinations that we have? Did God not create us in such a way that we are born with hereditary sin that makes us inevitably stumble? And if He had not, would we have been able to overcome sin the same way Christ did? The Bible seems to suggest that that is not the case. But I still don’t see a way to explain all of these things. If you have answers please let me know

[@makedisciples8653]

@@matthewcheevers4861 Love the analogy and the conversation I see it as God wanted a family for eternity of those that would freely choose Him. God created us in such a way that while we are all made in His image, He also gave us a free will so that we also would know what love is. Jesus was conceived, led by, strengthened by, and counseled by the Holy Spirit - so can we Jesus read and learned the Scriptures - so can we Jesus prayed to His Father - so can we Jesus lived obediently - so can we (we can’t live sinless in this flesh) , but we can sin less. This flesh is not forever. We’re getting new bodies. The Holy Spirit is here for OUR benefit now. He (a person, not a force) dwells in you (He really does) Jesus always and only exalted His Father - so can we Jesus lived relationally - so can we Parents, children, family, friends neighbors, co-workers, strangers and sinners of every kind. Was he tempted in the same way? Hebrews 2:18 Hereditary sin? I prefer that we are guilty of our own sin, not Adams. We can’t blame Adam or our Irish temper, or parents or our environment or the time or place we were born. Temptation comes from three places…the flesh, the world, and Satan. We are in a battle ourselves along with all humanity. We can’t be good enough, we need a Savior. We need to humble ourselves, repent, and surrender. Then Jesus does the rest. And believing and receiving (in faith) is not working for your salvation Jesus was frustrated, angered (righteous anger), joyful, hungry exhausted, and deeply saddened. There’s Biblical passages for all of the above. But He would not play the “God card”. He was always 100% God and He was also 100% man while on earth. Even while being crucified. The Hypostatic Union. The Son became sin for us. He and only He could defeat death for us. When I began to understand the Son of Man, I loved Jesus even more - not less Mysteries are actually hidden truths. Some people call New Testament mysteries unknowable, when actually they are creating a contradiction that isn’t in the Bible Everywhere in the New Testament where a mystery or secret is mentioned, it is also a truth revealed. All of them. Sorry about the long answer. Keep it going if you’d like

[@sheilasmith7779]

Braxton, I am on board with all your positions except 1. There is no evidence in Genesis that Adam and Eve were of one nature, one mind, then inexplicably disobeyed God. This sinful decision came out of human desire, a characteristic created by God. And it is argued this change us fundamentally as Adam and Eves desendents. And therefore, we himans are under a different influence as a result of Adam and Eve's sin. First, no created thing by God or by man, can function or act outside the design perimeters. We cannot fly because we were not designed to fly. Adam and Eve's obedience, and their disobedience were BOTH possible because of their design. They were created with the ability to think. They were created with the ability to be persuaded. They were created with the ability to experience desire without any limits. They were created with the ability and freedom to choose among options. The "change," asserted by Leighton and Braxton is never identified in scripture. Changes did happen after Adam and Eve's disobedience and are specifically identified in Gen 3.....but not the change both these men are asserting. To support the assertion of a characteristic change in humans as a result of Adam and Eve's sin, you would have to explain Abel's behavior.

[@otiscorn4538]

I hope these guys don’t think that presup is distinctly Calvinist. Calvinists are like a boy playing with his dad’s tools. The tools are perfectly fine and their dad is the Orthodox Church.

[@cousinbryan3007]

Sheesh. We've got some cage-stage anti-Calvinists here in the comments. Might be time for an episode about why you aren't condemning Calvinists to hell.

[@morghe321]

I was happy to find out that Leighton affirms eternal security. I had assumed he didn't, because a lot of those who are critical of Calvinism don't.

[@bobbyadkins6983]

I wish he didn't. But at least he thinks that if someone is living in sin, then they need to hear about repenting of their sins and be dealt with like any lost sinner.

[@RR-ue4im]

❤❤

[@suem5987]

Way too much talking without getting to the point. It took 11 minutes and 50 seconds to get to the topic. I almost moved on to another video. Just a pointer. Some people love stories and chit chat and others personalities can't stand it.

[@keithseaman1454]

um, . . . because we're not stupid! . . . Duh!

[@IronSharpensIron127]

Voddie doesn't know the Gospel so how can he believe it?

[@dfischer5878]

Ouch…. So not true

[@johntrevett2944]

@@dfischer5878 Comcal is doing his daddy's work... the accuser of the brethren

[@bobbyadkins6983]

@@johntrevett2944 He perverts the Gospel as do all Calvinistic preachers who teach that Jesus didn't die for everyone.

[@johntrevett2944]

@Bobby Adkins Everyone limits the atonement or they are a universalist. The disagreement is whether God or man limits it. This is a secondary issue and has zero to do with the gospel. The gospel is in 1 Cor 15:3-4. Voddie preaches the correct gospel regardless of his stance on the atonement.

[@stevieboy4338]

"Preach like arminian, believe like calvinist" == double-minded man...?

[@DamonNomad82]

For Calvinists, their choices are be double-minded or shrink away to nothing. Preaching Calvin to unbelievers doesn't produce more Calvinists, for some bizarre and mysterious reason...

[@bobbyadkins6983]

Sounds incredibly deceptive to me.

[@lukehelpmetakethisdangmaskoff]

Let's just observe the obvious here, they don't.

[@MWTS2012]

Is the doctrine of election the stumbling block to many going to hell? Is it blocking the way to enter the kingdom for those who are perishing? Is it weakening the faith of those who are believers in Christ's salvation by Grace?

[@shredhed572]

There is no doctrine of election. That's a made up "doctrine" brought into the church by Augustine. The word election, and you might as well throw in predestination and chosen, bc calvies think they all mean "before the foundation of the world" Election in the bible is always, always to service. The problem with their splitting, or black and white, all or nothing, good or bad thinking, is that they don't realize that in having this mentality they miss God's blessings. Predestined to adoption, for example. Adoption is something God blesses those that believe with adoption AS WELL AS and subsequent to salvation. After one receives Christ God could have left it at that. Once in Heaven we would have been citizens, but not family. But He went over and above this great blessing of saving us and also adopted us as well, so that now, if you're a believer you're also a son. Calvies indulge in word-think. They see a word like election and wrongly assume it means God choosing to save , EVERY TIME it appears in scripture 😅 So there is no such thing as "the doctrine of election, and the answer to your question is yes. The calvinist doctrine of election does keep ppl from calling on God, if they are told that there's nothing they can do, that it is taboo for them to call upon Xhrust to save, that if they're elect to salvation they should wait and see if God will save them. I think this "doctrine" has led many that could have received Christ to not do this very important thing. It's the most important thing of all: Where will you spend eternity? He's ready done the hard part of the sacrifice of Jesus and the raising Him from the dead. The ball is now in your court. Have you called of Christ to save you from eternal damnation? Take care

[@Salvation-Damnation]

Dang, all these calvinists are getting Leighton'd and Braxton'd left and right!

[@Bamifun]

🤪🥊 😵‍💫🥊 🥴🥊 🤕🥊

[@bock1965]

if sin nature is nothing more than a very strong influence then it follows that it is possible to live without sinning! Yet both of you have said every human is going to sin! both of those statements can not be true at once. If it is possible to not sin there was no need for Jesus death burial and resurection.

[@todo1784]

No it does not follow that it is possible to live without sinning. God is the only one who is sinless and to think that a created person could behave as God is to have a low view of God.

[@matthewcheevers4861]

@@todo1784 Why is it that we are incapable of living perfectly?

[@todo1784]

@@matthewcheevers4861 Because we are not God.

[@matthewcheevers4861]

@@todo1784 So anything that isn’t God can’t live perfectly? Why?

[@todo1784]

@@matthewcheevers4861 True. Anything that God creates is not God.

[@MWTS2012]

Predestination is true but it is not central to the Gospel message. The Gospel must still be preached.

[@dfischer5878]

Absolutely!

[@LoveAndLiberty02]

Predestination is true, in its context, but the Calvinistic interpretation is not.

[@shredhed572]

​@@LoveAndLiberty02 Amen!

[@13kimosabi13]

It’s pretty predictable => no matter which (wrong) ideology you believe => whether Calvinist or Provisionist => you always believe that you are in the 3% that goes to heaven and never the 97% that is Hell bound ! Both are wrong and prideful but are exactly what is expected from Christendom.

[@IronSharpensIron127]

So what is the Gospel?

[@13kimosabi13]

@@IronSharpensIron127 there’s plenty of GOOD NEWS IN THE BIBLE => but in this AGE => both the Calvinist and the Provisionist have exactly the same bad news => whether you choose or God chooses => GOD’s PLAN will only manage to save 3% of you. That’s a lie => because Satan wins in both of those scenarios! Our Bibles say different !!

[@chrislucastheprotestantview]

The provisionist camp says anyone can be part of their camp, just accept Jesus as Lord and Savior, that He died for your sins, and was raised after 3 days. You believe that, you can be with us. With calvinism, it is a select club, either God picked you and you are special, or God hates you from birth and you are going to hell and there is no amount of studying or believing that will help you.

[@13kimosabi13]

@@chrislucastheprotestantview I understand what each camp believes (even though you are severely negatively biased and narrow in your thinking toward Calvinist) but both are wrong and don’t take into account all of scripture. I understand Provisionistic thinking sounds better…..but it’s a lie just like Calvinism.

[@chrislucastheprotestantview]

​@@13kimosabi13 well calvinism drove me out of the church twice, because I didn't know the preachers were calvinist. And I am 48 years old, internet was not around my whole life, and I had no idea what calvinism was. But looking back after figuring out what calvinism is, I can see these preachers that had me questioning my faith and losing it, were calvinist. So I see their destruction in my life first hand. So yes, I don't like it now that I finally understand that the issues I have were rooted in calvinistic thinking.

[@reylambarte5615]

This video do not know God

[@DamonNomad82]

Naturally! Videos are not living, sentient beings, so of course it's impossible for a video to know God (or anything else). The men who presented and posted this video, on the other hand, know God very well!

[@reylambarte5615]

@@DamonNomad82 are you sure? Well tell me how they know the true God in the bible