Why Do Fans Dislike Sonic Heroes?

[@JeffCompass]

So regarding the B Button mashing vs holding, I was actually made aware of this by Ninjastar late during production but forgot to add it into the video. The reason I mashed was because if you look at the graphic it resembles being pushed up and down rather than held, and that’s something that’s confused me since I was a kid! So hopefully that explains why I didn’t know that. Thank you all for watching!

[@JAM609]

I just feel bad you had to break your hands because of poor explanations in this game

[@OffAirProductions]

Oh hey, it's the game that caused me to break a controller for the first time. And the last time. The instant regret from that single incident has lasted a lifetime for me.

[@devonwhite4706]

I got so frustrated, I ended up breaking the game disc and I had to buy a new copy on Amazon. A game should never make you do that ever!😠

[@VXMasterson]

Bro said Gamma’s story was boring The FBI is on the way to your home

[@robertkovarna8294]

Nothing will ever change how Sonic Heroes is one of my favorites.

[@joniivee]

Witness Protection will not save you, Jeff. I'm sorry.

[@JeffCompass]

Good thing I made this video 15 years ago and simply just waited to upload it then :)

[@phorchybug3286]

I like Heroes. I had the notorious PS2 version but i still had fun.

[@mill2712]

I liked it too. Though I had the GameCube version.

[@ThePlayerRolo]

I 100% the PS2 version💀 And it was scratched too (just no audio in cutscenes and the file select but still)

[@GregCubed]

Jeff: "I'm sure they'll wrap up Shadow's plotline in Shadow the Hedgehog" SEGA: (*makes a choose-your-own-adventure game where nothing is cannon*)

[@shyheimcarter5916]

Technically there was a last story...

[@CQCorruptionQuest]

So apparently though during the final boss fight if you wait around long enough Eggman will tell shadow that he saved him from dying and he's the same shadow from heroes.

[@BlueMageDaisen]

Do you meab the same from Adventure? Heroes was where they started the question of whether he was really Shadow, and there was no doubt the one in Shadow was the one from Heroes ​@@CQCorruptionQuest

[@MilesTheMan]

This game is jank, it's buggy, it can be very long. I love this game so much!

[@CQCorruptionQuest]

So something most people don't know and not sure if it's been mentioned. Hold the B button in the special stages. You will have a better chance of reaching the emerald faster over mashing it.

[@NoxianJustice]

Hot take but Sonic Heroes is literally peak Sonic imo. I love the level design,kick ass ost and replayability. Im 27 now and still play it every couple of years. That being said gameplay can be a bit janky but still its an amazing Sonic game.

[@YujiUedaFan]

The issue with Sonic Heroes is the replayability is almost non-existent because you're likely going to play the game the exact same way through each playthrough (minus some shorter levels for Team Rose and Team Chaotix's thing). If you could go through each level only using one character with enough practice (like only using Sonic in a playthrough), then the game would be a lot more rewarding for skilled players. Overall I feel like Heroes is just a chore to go through. The lack of non-2P side modes doesn't help either.

[@shyheimcarter5916]

I don't think Sonic games have a lot of modes...

[@YujiUedaFan]

@@shyheimcarter5916 Not now they don't. SA2B had 2P, Kart Racing and Chao World. Now Sonic games are kind of barren in terms of things to do past the 3 hour mark.

[@playbossthebest936]

​@@YujiUedaFan how do you feel about sonic frontiers? That game has a ridicolous amount of post game content, including extra modes

[@YujiUedaFan]

@@playbossthebest936 I never got that far, because the core gameplay loop was just broken. The game expects you to beat bosses, to get gears, then use them to go to Cyberspace to get keys for the Chaos Emeralds. That sounds fine and all, but it's completely undermined once you get enough coins to go finishing, then spend coupons on keys. Even then you can just find keys in the overworld on the first island. Additionally, the 3rd island really makes the automation in really restrictive for no reason. You wind up boxed into areas, usually by accident. I also don't like how the camera swings around to tell you "HEY LOOK! ENEMY!" One thing I never got is why does Cyberspace have completely different physics to the rest of the game? it makes it feel weirdly janky. Then again, they are optional. Regarding post-game: From what I can tell is it's just more of the same, so no Kart Racing, Chao World or any other side mode that isn't the same thing you've been doing all game.

[@playbossthebest936]

@@YujiUedaFan that's a shame, but I understand. Well, about the post game content, you're correct stating it's all based on the main gameplay style, but it's still worthwhile content imo. Much more interesting than the kart racing in SA2 to me (I really don't get the hype for that. I don't like the chao garden either, but I know I'm on the minority)

[@coquecoke2976]

We will not tolerate big slanders in this platform (Big Blast)

[@myghostflower]

ahhhh finalmente another video, so excited to watch :)

[@MakoTenseii]

Why tf are we talking about sega saturn from an american perspective... in a sonic heroes video? Do american youtubers get off on talking about how much sega fumbled the saturn?

[@GregCubed]

Probably because Jeff is American and it's from his perspective. Just uh, a wild guess.

[@MakoTenseii]

@GregCubed that doesnt answer my question of why this IRRELEVANT tangent is forced into this Sonic Heroes video

[@filipmartinez1162]

@@MakoTenseii said fumbling caused them to pull out of the console war and make this trash. It's kinda relevant but not entirely so

[@Braylon1997]

@@filipmartinez1162fumbling the Saturn didn’t cause them to pull out of the console war. The Dreamcast being overshadowed by the PlayStation 2 was the straw that broke the camel’s back.

[@ciudad1696]

Im curious to check out your other videos. While watching this, i just assumed you were a fairly popualr KZbinr due to the high-production value of this video. Man was i shocked to see less than 10k subs. Youve gained another one for now. Good luck as your channel grows

[@JeffCompass]

Yo thank you!

[@Daroachie]

sonic heroes is my favorite sonic game i have become one with the jank to be reborn as a beautiful janky butterfly

[@BatsOnSaturn]

I'm just gonna point this out real quick since you did mention how you only see Sonic as a cartoon character and nothing more, SonicTeam's intentions with Sonic have always been to be the antithesis of what most icons like him do. You see Sonic and think it's nothing but goofy haha funny moments, but they always had a spectacle in the series roots since Sonic 1, the series was always intended to be Japanese-inspired (it was made in Japan afterall) and took influences from anime at the time. Sonic wants to be the opposite of what you think Mario would be, instead of being purely lighthearted and simple they wanted to be more complex and tell proper narratives, this is seen as early as Sonic 3 & Knuckles on the SEGA Genesis/Mega Drive. Pariah365 did a good video on how Sonic is Fundamentally Japanese, I suggest giving it a watch to have a better understanding of the series cause it will help you understand why they go the routes they do. Sonic isn't your average platformer mascot, he has his own unique identity that nobody else has replicated and probably never will.

[@Octav2000]

15:10 he is the original shadow and eggman saved him after sa2 this is explained if you stall for a long time during the final boss of shadow the hedgehog

[@onthedre]

You can hold B in the special stages and I believe it's faster. Rapid Mashing is slower.

[@danvzare6201]

I completely agree with everything you said. I still don't like Sonic Heroes though. Also there are two small gripes that I have with the game, that I think could've easily improved it and gotten rid of it's "mixed reaction" status. Firstly, this game really needed a Chao garden. The Chao garden is a brilliant incentive to replay the same levels over and over again, and this game is nothing but replaying the same levels over and over again. Secondly, remove the health bars from enemies. Killing enemies is usually what ends up making these levels take so long, and is only exasperated when you die due to the slippery controls and have to kill all of the enemies again. Even more so once you realize that it'll take you longer the second time around due to being back to level 0. And if you're rushing through them, you'll probably make a mistake and have to do it a third time. I get that you need an excuse to switch to the strength character, but their wide attack radius should be enough for that already.

[@rageinducing8368]

I was like “why are you scared of sonic fans”? yeah buddy….ur a menace lol (and we’re coming)

[@rageinducing8368]

Yo bro just will not leave Adventure alone lol 😂😭

[@rageinducing8368]

Last minute was v based

[@hortinus]

Because Sonic Heroes had super slippery controls and had only ONE level designer working on everything after Ocean Palace (said person almost worked themselves to death with the dev crunch) "According to a Game Informer interview, two people designed levels for Sonic Heroes: Azuka and another designer who became ill later in development. Azuka recalled working relentlessly, losing weight, and suffering from insomnia as he took on the majority of the level design. Sonic Heroes was released in December 2003 in Japan and January-February 2004 in other regions. "

[@madyumii]

he's saying all of this about Adventure while using SADX footage im fucken dying the swat team is coming for your ass

[@Koko-cy4ff]

So... No one is going to mention the fact that you can hold down the button in the special stages instead of mashing?

[@robertkovarna8294]

Why do people do that? When I got there back when i was like.. 5 or 6, I held the button down in the special stages. The hint ring even says hold the button.

[@godhimself1128]

Because the game is poorly designed and doesn't intuitively indicate it well. Its the same reason it took me 5+ years to learn I can speed up on rails that way too

[@stanzacosmi]

25:41 congrats, you're the first person i've seen to actually point out the intention behind these.

[@stanzacosmi]

also you can just hold down the B button after a certain speed in the special stages

[@stanzacosmi]

also you keep showing footage of you not being able to do the recovery jump after being hit over a pit, that's just a skill issue, you can do it immediately after being hit off of the ground once you're over the air.

[@martymanglares2129]

Let's gooo, new Jeff compass upload

[@switchbrohero9035]

With team darks team blast you can just press the Z button again to instantly turn it off.

[@archae108]

For me, it's just the complete gameplay shift. I think the Team-based mechanics could have worked if it was just given a little more time. I dunno, I just... Sonic Heroes is the worst game in the series for me.

[@tombruncker7013]

Sonic Heroes is perhaps one of the most divisive sonic games, some people (including myself) love it in spite of the flaws and others consider it the start of the dark age

[@pankaka8264]

I've beaten the game last week for nostalgic reasons and it was fun ngl. It's mostly the extra missions that can be a hazard. Team Rose and Dark are the easier ones because their extra missions are very straight forward, but Team Sonic and Chaotix were super frustrating. Otherwise, the game is not terrible but isn't great either.

[@Superdude-rd2gs]

the reason the controls and physics suck is because they ported it physics from sonic adventure and doubled speed without polishing it

[@OBGat]

I played on Ps2 and it was my favorite Sonic game for a while, probably because it was my first 3d Sonic game. Now I appreciate the Adventure games more after going back and playing them.

[@andrewmolina6282]

Nooo dont mash the b button😭

[@rezenhasqn8308]

Now THAT'S a hot take!

[@quandaledingleofficial6]

25:17 no offense but, huge skill issue

[@Mostillist]

i think it gets a bad rep because most people played it on the ps2 and that version is a mess. it doesn't even have a steam port or a proper rerelease. me personally its in my top 3 favorite sonic games

[@rorimeclipse8228]

To be fair, the invitation for Team Sonic to try and stop him was more likely than not a ploy and a trap by Neo Metal to lure Sonic and his team to him and prove once and for all that Sonic is nothing more than his "loathsome copy," while also crushing his friends alongside him since to his knowledge at the time, these 2 would probably be his biggest obstacles after Sonic. Would be a good idea to kill 3 fleshy nuiscances with 1 giant metal robot with a god complex. I will admit however that that is highly speculatory since we don't really know WHEN Metal took over Eggman's forces. Eggy could've already sent the letter first and then Metal took over. That's just how I interpreted it as a kid when my bro, cousin and I beat it for the first time.

[@Teizhcial]

I love sonic heroes played the hell out of it with my little cousin back in the day trying to get all those goddamn chaos emeralds

[@jninja1764]

I think a big reason why people hate this game is the Controls (Though I don't see it as often) There are janky parts of the game that i could see making it hard to play smoothly. It is also slippery is some speed sections. Another reason is the repetition of the same levels 4 times. Not really a big issue for me but other people hate it

[@TimelessRetroTalk3575]

Sonic Heroes.. may be hated, buggy, repetitive, and whatever you want, but it will always be one of my favorite Sonic games, Its good points for me overshadow any flaws it may have. And yes, I prefer it more than Sonic Frontiers, and even more so than several games that came out during the Dark/Meta era, in my personal opinion

[@joshwillcox7141]

Press the z button again to end the chaos control. Yeah I never knew for years either but it certainly helps. Also if you attack with Knuckles or Omega without touching the analogy stick you do quicker shorter attacks that barely move you. Okay based on your issues with the final boss, you're just bad at the game which is fine. You can just say you're bad the game. Metal Overlord is one the easiest Sonic bosses out there. If you're still struggling with that then I don't know what to suggest. Play easier games?

[@shaggy1628]

Ok, Scott the Woz (Derogatory) Edit: You're welcome to dunk on SADX for being a bad port, but I don't think you're being fair in your criticism of Sonic Adventure. You can essentially play the original Dreamcast version (with the dreamcast conversion mod) but upgraded for Pc and are choosing not to do it, while playing the same 10 year-old clips of Sonic clipping through geometry, at least try to be original.

[@SorellaKez]

12:20 I can civally disagree! I don't think Sonic needs super deep complex stories either but I don't think comedic based storylines are a good foundation either. It worked in Colors, but as an overall direction, it fell apart to me because it removes the tension from the plot and trivializes the "cool" factor that Sonic games were always going for. I dont mind lighthearted stuff though and Heroes is a good example of that!

[@TimelessRetroTalk3575]

I prefer a thousand times a story like that of Sonic Heroes than that of Sonic Frontiers, in my personal opinion.

[@ChiefMedicPururu]

I don't.

[@wozthescott2804]

I both love and dislike this game dearly. I can’t stop coming back to it or some reason.

[@Londonlink]

Okay I will be sending the Swat team to your house for the Sonic Adventure 1 hate 😂😂

[@NoiseBun]

I was curious about the title, thinking this was going to be a video talking about the game but it's actually +40 minutes of skill issues. Not saying that it's not a serious issue if a game hurts you physically but how come you never tried just... press the button to boost on special stages. (Also half the time an "issue" was presented it was something you actively caused or didn't tried to fight back, like you showed that you lost Omega on LOST JUNGLE, of all places. That means one of the teleporting robots took him and you didn't TRIED TO ATTACK THE ENEMY) This all looks like you wanted to finish the game on the first playthrough and be done with it. I'm sure it would've been better to play something else, something you actually enjoy, and make a video about that instead. A really good point you said was that, most likely, majority of the players who had a bad experience were the ones who played on PS2. Would've been interesting to check by doing a poll or something but that's too much asfaskjd Nice editing, hope you get to talk about a game you really enjoy later down the line!

[@xaviersejour9183]

Special stages are not that bad if you lose it’s like one minute to retry and providing you do well enough at the special stage it’s probably 30 seconds. It never takes more than two or three tries And you’re only hurting yourself because your mashing the B button. Yes the physics are weird and difficult to control But it’s no harder than any other special stage in the sonic franchise And I would call this the easier special stages

[@DylanDemarkus]

20:29 bro press the z the stop the chaos control

[@reddemon6668]

Fans hate Sonic heroes cuz it’s not the adventure 3 game they wanted. They’re salty about it and biased before they even give it a chance If they try to play heroes they do it by pushing back against the mechanics, refusing to change characters, and blame the game for it. The game is also extremely punishing if you push back against it. The more you push back the more the game becomes janky. To play Sonic heroes a level of trust in the system is required, let the loops, twists, and air launches guide you, instead of trying to control Sonic at every turn give into the system and allow it to hold ur hand during those moments. Sonic heroes is the closest thing to the 2D classic games and is the best at emulating what sonic games should be. Not the weird half realistic and half fantasy world of the adventure games, Sonic 06, or Sonic X. It’s disturbing to see humans in a Sonic game. Learning the game mechanics makes this game click. It’s janky, but when you get why and how to avoid it it’s great. Grinding for example, once u learn to switch rails without trying to press the speed up button helps avoid the glitch that makes u pit fall. Holding the boost button for grinding and the special stage, is so much more faster than mashing and makes both those types of mechanics easy to get through. And using the momentum and physics while jumping to create short cuts gives a feeling of satisfaction that in my opinion hasn’t been rivaled by many other games out there.

[@TheIrkenEmpire420]

Ah, the classic case of "The game doesn't suck, you do."

[@reddemon6668]

@@TheIrkenEmpire420 hey, it’s okay, we all know ur gameplay is pathetic, no need to hide it

[@reddemon6668]

@@TheIrkenEmpire420 if you take the moment to consider the level design and general gameplay, it is. The game falls short with a couple of things like rail switching, the team vs battles, segments of the bob sled sections, the alligator section, and some of the written lines. The story is alright for the most part, the bob sled plays better than sleds and boards in other installments, and the bosses in my opinion are ok, nothing great to talk about but nothing bad either, they lack balancing and I wish they would incorporate the team play where each character either has some room to shine or there’s some gimmick that makes them all stand out a bit more. But compared to all the other bosses in the other Sonic games they made, they are alight. I’ve seen multiple streamers play and yes, it’s usually the skill issue.

[@moncay3238]

Isn’t eggman a human?

[@TheIrkenEmpire420]

@@moncay3238 Nah, he's an egg.

[@RadiCalRadiCal-to7zh]

Sonic heroes would be a fun time in new consoles

[@VampireA1056]

I love Sonic Heroes

[@evanvinet8773]

I probably would've loved heroes if it hadn't followed SA1 and SA2. it felt like such a downgrade from those two far superior games

[@Bem101-vc8km]

Brother,you can not talk about sa1 while showing the dx port which is the worst version of it

[@MP4PartyStar]

I am also a Sonic Heroes special stages hater dont get me wrong... but did you not know that you can just hold the boost button for these stages? I'm... so sorry...

[@Doomfullord]

Acting like I don't want a Super Mario Sunshine 2 on the wii? I'd buy that today. Dust off my old wii and play.

[@DylanDemarkus]

11:53 HOW DARE U SAY THAT U NOT A REAL SONIC FAN U JUST AN IGN CRITIC AND WANT BABY GAMES FOR BABIES

[@RandomizationShow]

SA1 and 2 are my favorites and I beat them at least once a year. I have never been able to make it past the second level of Heroes. The physics are awful and the team based combat robs it of everything a sonic game needs, speed and momentum.

[@sagecentral1809]

Do they?

[@djangosouthwest6043]

Honestly Sonic heroes on the Xbox was fun Sonic heroes on the GameCube was a pain in the yeah 😂 Edited : PS2 version was broken

[@codyraugh6599]

Honestly my friends and I had just played SA2, but the game was dull, and the story was missing. It was also followed by Shadow the hedgehog.

[@DylanDemarkus]

Smoking that izuka pack 🚬🚬🚬🚬

[@LiveHedgehog]

Honestly Heroes is my least favourite 3D Sonic game, including stuff like 06. I did a playthrough of the entire series very recently, and Heroes just didn't hold my interest unlike literally any of the others (including the terrible jank in Sonic Superstars). I just find the game sloppy.

[@MrKingkz]

Cuz it's not 2D it's always the answer 😂

[@worlds-biggest-mbn-fanboy]

Cuz its not spark the electric jester 3 /s no but play this game man its awesome

[@cultreader9751]

Don't most Sonic Heroes haters like Generations?

[@xaviersejour9183]

My first Sonic games are Sonic advanced 2 and 3. And Sega genesis plug-and-play version of sonic the hedgehog 1 So I knew who sonic was kind of And there the 4kids Sonic X. So I loved Sonic Heroes

[@BBK113]

Because it plays like shit

[@hewkiithetiscytofficialcha8903]

Maybe you're playing it wrong and died over 9000 times while playing it

[@BBK113]

@@hewkiithetiscytofficialcha8903 no the game controls like shit, just like shadow. At lot of the issues people have with that game (aside from its baffling storyline and ofc shadow and guns) apply to heroes too

[@kooljokez]

Based take

[@williamscott7343]

Nintendo direct announced tomorrow

[@DylanDemarkus]

What about sonic the fighters

[@WestSky1994]

Dude play some fan games 2D & 3D even Spin-off's they are very good

[@ShadowerPownage]

you couldve stopped at sonic

[@animosity3771]

it’s hated?

[@xspartan346x]

i loved this game.

[@topplerq]

Why are you playing sonic adventure DX it worst version of the game the Dreamcast was better

[@Hedgie3]

You're soo right about that, there is a bunch of technical things about SA1 that only the Dreamcast console could handle correctly, so the quality of the DX ported version of it got almost completely butchered when that version for other consoles was made. I'm sick of seeing that almost every single person who tries to review SA1 reviews that crappy messed up version of it instead of the better original version of it. Especially because I know that that's what caused the "Sonic had a rough transiton into 3D" misunderstanding to be made. Some advice to anyone who might not know it yet: If you want to play the better version but can't afford or find a used DC console, then download the PC version because fan-made mods that can make that version of SA1 be more like the original DC version of it, do exist online.

[@Taika_talvi]

Honestly, most Sonic 3D games kinda suck. But this one AT LEAST captures the colorful and fun atmosphere of the 2D Sega games. Which is really cool. That's why I personally hate the adventure games. Gameplay is meh and the overall presentation is like something that an edgy 10 year old could have come up with. Heroes is technically flawed (like the rest) but the presentation is good.

[@moncay3238]

naw adventure games are not that edgy it only gets dark during the last story segment this game is so tedious doing the same playthrough 4 times is so annoying .

[@kooljokez]

Sonic heroes fucking sucks

[@mangaplosion2517]

55 views. 7 likes. No comments? You fell off.. Jk

[@devonwhite4706]

I had the most miserable and frustrating time replaying this game on my PlayStation 2 last week, it took me 24 years to finally beat this game because of its horrible rushed game design and broken controls! I’m one of those people that liked this game as a child, but replaying it again exposes this games lack of replayability. I like the level stages, some of the characters gameplay, Cream happens to be one of my favorite characters and especially the music, it can be a fun time playing, but the atrocious glitches, the awful slippery controls, unfairly hard deceptive enemies, a frustrating final boss including Eggman, Amy’s downgrade of character, awful broken team battles and it is absolutely impossible to not get hit in this game when every time you touch an enemy, you get hit constantly and lose the key! It nearly broke me! I really want to like this game but Sega’s lack of care and time was not put into this game at all!😡 I would probably replay it again just for Team Rose because their level length are short and less painful but it doesn’t save the game from mediocrity for me, they even screwed up the main menu controls, circle is select and X is cancel, how do you screw up the menus this bad!? I would really like for them to remake this game from the ground up and fix all the problems on release but it’s doubtful because of what happened to Sonic Colors Ultimate.

[@krypto9071]

The PS2 version is known to be the worse version of the game maybe try playing it on the GameCube or an emulator of you have the chance

[@devonwhite4706]

@@krypto9071 what’s the difference beside them being literally the same game?🤨 I’m not playing the GameCube version just because you think it’s better, it won’t fix my issues with the game than it already did. There is literally no difference with the game expect for the frame rate.

[@praisejeezus8639]

⁠@@devonwhite4706The PS2 port job IS the worst. The quality of it and what was allowed glitch wise is a lot worse than the other 2 ports. Nobody “thinks” these versions are better, they just are. Game is still average/above average at best but at least it’s playable on GC and Xbox. X and O were switched because in Japan that’s the standard menu control scheme and laziness on the developers of said port not switching it for American release.