Why Do Fence Posts Rot and Break - Wood Fencing Damage

www.homebuildin... click on this link for more information about wood fence construction and home repairs. Watch this video to learn reasons why wood fence posts rot and fall apart. Moisture and water seems to be wood's worst enemy and let's face it in nature it's part of the decomposition process, so there isn't much we can do about it. However, if you understand what causes the wood post to rot, I'm pretty sure you can figure out a few ways to reduce these problems and extend the life of your fence. In other words, extend the life of your wood fence posts and save money in the future by reducing your future home repair bills. If this sounds good and you're looking for some more interesting tips and ideas, visit our websites today area

[@gregvancom]

Additional videos can be found at our website in the fence section or by checking out this playlist kzbin.info/aero/PLGyVeAgAJ-tkXRqWKi_iOedGXXHKBLHFo .

[@gregvancom]

Thanks for taking the time to share your story. I think one of the hardest problems I'm having with some of these viewers is pointing out that I haven't found a way to install wood fence posts that will work in every single state or other parts of the world. What works in Colorado, might not work well in Maine.

[@l0I0I0I0]

Have you discovered a way to properly put in a post that is permanent?

[@BasicPoke]

My posts rot at ground level. To prevent this, mound the concrete slightly above ground and slightly slope it away from the pole. If it's an area you don't need to mow then you can mound it up higher. Also put pea gravel in the bottom of the hole, no concrete below the post that would seal the wood in.

[@Road_Rash]

I just pulled up six 40+ year old wooden fence posts last week that weren't set in concrete & only 2 of them broke...the underground portions of them were just like they were when my dad planted them over 4 decades ago when I was a kid...that's how I know how long they've been there...I was absolutely amazed by this...the 2 that broke, broke off at the ground with the upper portion being way more rotted than what was in the ground...

[@gregvancom]

Thanks for sharing.

[@josephpostma1787]

What sort of wood did your father use? Were posts charred, chemically treated, concreated, or graveled or a combination of them? Do you know how thick the posts were and how far they were into the ground?

[@H2OMAN]

Make sure you dig the hole large enough to have 2"-3" of concrete around the entire post. If your soil is heavy put 3"-4" of gravel in the hole under the post. If your soil is sandy or well drained you do not need the gravel. Next treat the wood post with a below ground combination fungicide/insecticide product available at most home centers from the bottom up to a few inches above the grade. Position the post into the hole and add a couple more inches of gravel or soil then tamp that material around the post with a 2"x2" wooden stick( we use a steel bar with a 2"round flat end). Even if you use a pressure treated post, still apply the below ground treatment as termites can eat the center of that post which has no protection. All woods will rot, even cedar and redwood. Next, mix and pour your concrete as a collar around the post and cove the top of the concrete above the grade and away from the post. The concrete collar is only for stabilizing the post. Yes, wood posts can absorb water and moisture and they will swell and shrink with the weather conditions. Gaps will appear between the post and the collar from wood shrinkage or the concrete may crack, that sometimes happens. By not having concrete under the end of the post the rain water will run down along side the post and wick out the bottom into the soil or gravel making it less likely to rot. After 25 years building fence this is how I build it for myself and my customers. AZ Fence Contractor

[@johnlenartsfix-a-fence445]

I love you. xoxo FIX-A-FENCE Inc - OH Fence Contractor

[@coypatton3160]

One thing to add for a DIYer homeowner with a wood fence. After following Mr Waterman’s above instructions, come back at a 1-2 year time span and use a good 109% silicone caulk to fill the gap where the post has shrunk due to drying on all 4 sides between the post and concrete. This will reduce the amount of water going between the post and concrete giving the gravel a better opportunity to drain the water away. The more clay in your soil, the more gravel you need in the bottom of your hole. In my area, I put 6-8 inches of gravel, as we have a high clay content soil!

[@gary24752]

@@coypatton3160 Forget the silicone. Use a elastomeric, one-component, self-leveling, non-bubbling, premium-grade polyurethane sealant .

[@HsingSun]

Thank you for the video. I have used all metal posts for the fences and I do not have to worry about any rot, break, and damage to the posts.

[@romansten9]

Good video. I've also thought of concrete as a "sponge" I was looking for the "solution" to the problem at the end, and I never found it! (you asked for suggestions) to me, that would be the logical next step...1. problem 2. solution. thanks

[@gewgulkansuhckitt9086]

Wood that is completely immersed in water typically does not rot because of the lack of oxygen. Rotting tends to occur at the border between wet and dry. A place on the post that is soaking wet sometimes and dry at others is likely to rot. Personally I'd just go with metal or perhaps concrete posts depending on the application. Some natural woods withstand rot better than treated lumber. The heartwood of pine trees, ESPECIALLY long leaf pine, (sometimes called "fat lightered" wood or just fatwood) does an amazing job of withstanding rot. Black locust wood may even be better. There are some tropical woods that are also very good, but making a fence post out of tropical hardwood seems like a waste of money. Note: If you are thinking of growing black locust trees for posts, be aware that it can turn into a hard to kill weed.

[@barkershill]

+Gewgulkan Suhckitt Greetings from England! You are absolutely right . I have seen hundreds of posts like this . They break right at ground level . If you take the time to big out the bit in the soil it is usually as solid as when it was put in

[@gregvancom]

It sounds like you've oversimplified the process, but you're right on track. This really is a tough thing for me to wrap my mind around.

[@eyeballfarmer]

For what it covers, the video is fine, well made, but why would you make a video like this without at least a passing wave to the 'best solution you've found so far' at the end???

[@mariobros753]

eyeballfarmer i think the message is wood sucks.

[@blainenelson2319]

We know the posts will rot, otherwise we wouldn’t have clicked the video. Pretty sure we can surmise as to why they rot. I was hoping for a solution that I hadn’t tried or thought of but, no. This was as helpful as a screen door on a submarine. We are all dumber for having watched this. Thank you, may god have mercy on your soul.

[@dj_inclusion]

blaine Nelson , lol you got to award no points as well

[@hmrubio1021]

On a positive note, how about setting the concrete a couple inches above the ground.

[@pmaz-11]

This video was useless 😂

[@gregvancom]

Wow, you sound like you've never seen a piece of pressure treated wood used for a fence post rot, well I have one in my backyard that can't be more than 10 years old and I'm guessing realistically it isn't more than five years old in desperate need of repair, because it is falling apart and suffering from dry rot.

[@byronc7284]

I work in termite and dryrot wood repair and replacement. I've seen it all. So many tricks for rot proofing, and I've seen all of them fail. there are 4 things you can do that i can promise will extend the life of a wooden post. Everything else, i just don't know if it'll help. 1st, type of wood. cedar or red wood are better than douglas fir. You pay more but is worth the price. 2nd, treated is better than non treated. if you can do treated cedar, that would be the way to go. Your typical pressure treated lumber does ok, but i believe that's just doug fir. it beats non treated doug fir. 3rd, the bottom of the post should be sitting on gravel. allows for drainage. 4th, last but not least. don't let water puddle at the base of the post. Build up the concrete above ground level and slope away to keep water away. I've seen doug fir post last over 10 years using only this method alone. This is all i have. I don't know that paint, or tar, or water proof paper or what not, is going to be all that effective. Stuff like that can trap water over time. I just don't know for sure. Just follow my 4 suggestions and you'll do fine.

[@gregvancom]

I like your thinking.

[@JADEDWILLIAM]

Keeping it simple and good advice.

[@b36g]

Crush stone on the bottom tar the post couple of cleats and no cement. Cement does nothing but rot your posts. Pack down you soil

[@meauxjeaux431]

Ceder is better for rot, but way too soft for fence posts. If you live FAR inland away from hurricanes then fine I suppose. And can't use cedar up north either, because the nor'easters can produce hurricane streingth winds.

[@johnneeman7432]

Thank you for your advice! I'll be building a garage without walls, only 4 beams (4 by 4's) and a tin roof. I'll be using your method for my foundations. Only thing I'm gonna be doing different is that I'll use oak beams, and also I'll spray them with tar where the beam touches the concrete + 20 cm above. I hope this will last for 30 years.

[@rolm7877]

Can spray post with sealant, oil, other stuff instead of concrete?

[@louischatmon8811]

Very informative video. I appreciate the time you take explaining it even though there's no one size for all solution. I live in VA where the ground is pretty wet. I'm considering putting a disclaimer in my contracts about premature wood rot and offer the option of metal posts. But now I have to research about them rusting

[@gregvancom]

Definitely put that in your contract. I would also suggest examining fences built in your area a little more closely see which ones are lasting longer. I have a neighbor about two houses down who built a wood fence with metal posts that are normally used for chain-link fencing and his fence is doing just fine. Probably about eight years old.

[@louischatmon8811]

@@gregvancom I saw a video where this older guy used roofing tar 3ft, from the up. Leaving the bottom open so it doesn't cup. Wonder what inspectors would think of that

[@gregvancom]

I will need to look into that, I've never heard of it before. I know that my step daughter loves hemp products, but that's almost the extent of my knowledge about it, when it comes to construction. I know it makes a great rope and string and you're probably right about the reason why it's illegal.

[@tchevrier]

Nice video. You pretty much addressed the main problem with using concrete to set wooden posts. I would add that the post also needs oxygen to rot which is why it tends to rot right at ground level first. The other problem with concrete in northern climates is with frost heave. Pouring concrete directly into a hole will promote frost heave. I suggest using something as simple as a good compacting gravel to set the posts. The gravel will allow moisture to wick away from the post. Plus it will decouple the frozen earth from the post limiting frost heave. And its cheaper.

[@gregvancom]

I would like to add that wood fence post can rot below the surface and actually start rotting below the surface. Hopefully people in areas where ground frost is a problem also read your statement and it's definitely something I need to share with others.

[@gregvancom]

That's a good idea and this would work great for areas where water won't be a problem.

[@gregvancom]

Remember, some of the information you hear on youtube, will need to be validated. Just because someone says something works great or one product works better than another or that a particular corporation or company uses their product, doesn't mean that it actually works or will work under every condition.

[@gregvancom]

As long as you get the right metal, it should last longer than wood. However I've seen people install wooden fences with the same materials used for chain-link fences(metal posts) get blown over in strong winds. I really don't have an answer to which is actually better, especially if you're trying to be cost-effective.

[@gregvancom]

You're welcome and thanks for watching. Don't forget to tell your friends about our channel.

[@gregvancom]

I doubt if I will ever be using a script... Umm...but thanks for the advice, you're not the first person who said that and I am trying to do better.

[@gregvancom]

I've learned to read between the lines over the years and sometimes knowing that there's going to be a problem if something is built one particular way could be beneficial.

[@corin164]

Here, on the Outerbanks of NC, our soil has a high content of sand and drainage is very good We do not use concrete to erect fences (or similar structures). We just excavate the soil at a depth of at least 1/2 the height of the post. Post are then tamped in (with a sledge) until there is no more movement. The static pressure that the sand puts on the posts is more than adequate to maintain the post in a vertical position One more thing that we do to extend the life of the post and that is we apply liquid copper preservative to any end that was sawed (cut) by yourself. I don't know how many years posts last but I see very few replacement posts.

[@gregvancom]

Thanks for sharing and it's good to know what other people are doing around the world and US.

[@rjhoover4474]

What you can do is paint Henry's # 107 waterproofing onto the post below ground and 2-3 inches above ground. Do not paint the bottom but put 3-4 inches of gravel in the hole so moisture can drain out of the bottom of the post. Also seal open ends of wood and joints where water can get in you can paint over this stuff but not stain it.

[@gregvancom]

The gravel won't eliminate problems where soil doesn't drain well. The gravel will tend to provide areas for moisture that cannot penetrate through clay soils to gather and remain for long periods of time.

[@gman100]

I've had great luck using a method an old farmer told me about. Coat the in ground portion of your posts and a bit above the ground level, with a mixture of diesel fuel and used motor oil, basically a 2 part oil to 1 part fuel mix. Apply it with an old brush, let it dry overnight and coat it again one or twice more. When dry, it'll leach minimally if at all, but will do a good job repelling moisture and keeping bugs to a minimum. You should get nearly 2/3 times the lifespan with this method.

[@gregvancom]

I've definitely heard that one before and it's one others might want to pay attention to, just don't let the environmentalist know about it.

[@chrisgraham2904]

I set 4X4 and 6X6 pressure treated posts into a concrete pier with the pier terminating at grade level. I then butter the top surface of the pier, around the base of the post and about 6 inches up the post with an acrylic paintable caulking. I use a cheap DAP exterior caulking which states that it has a 30 year life. when used or normal caulking purposes. Butter the caulking on with a putty knife about a quarter inch thick. I find it seals the base of the post where it is always wet with debris, ice, snow and wet leaves tend to gather. it seals the gap where the post enters the pier after the wood shrinks with time to prevent water from pouring down between the concrete and the encapsulated wood post and it seals the top of the concrete pier. I've found that the caulking does break down after about 7 to 10 years and allows water to reach the critical post base at that time so the rot process begins then, rather than the day after you installed the post. If I've extended the life of the post by five years or more, that's a fair benefit for the two dollars that it costs to butter each post.

[@TheRenpeg]

Gravel in the bottom of the hole. seal the post with roof tar or wrap with bitchathane. They now make products for mortar and grout that you mix into it to make it water proof. Always slope the top of the concrete away from the post. As will as have the concrete above ground level. Caulk around the gap at the post and concrete meet. If the customer is willing to spend the extra money. add a piece of coated 1/8-1/4 angle iron in the ground with the post. sticking out 1' above the ground. Foam is also an option but must have hard soil or deeper holes. Does not work with load bearing posts. (ie gates)

[@nicholas8479]

What is the small angle iron in the ground for? What is foam? Thanks.

[@TheRenpeg]

keeps the post more stable against wind movement as well as when the post doese start to rot you have the angle Iron to then bolt the post to. Foam : just like spray insulation. closed cell. use it instead of concrete.

[@celticslimjim]

+Dusty G. Thank you so much for posting, Dusty. I knew if I read enough comments I'd find one with the info I needed. You the man!

[@jellybean3731]

Top comment, nice one Dusty - proper job ; )

[@dell177]

I put a small grape arbor in my yard 40 years ago. It was PT 4x4" posts rated for ground contact. I put 4-5" of crushed stone at the bottom of the post holes and plced the posts on top of that and poured concrete around the posts but left 3" of soil at the top of each post hole. The soil is very sandy but 40 years and counting ain' bad.

[@gregvancom]

Here's to 40 more and thanks for sharing.

[@RKYMTNHI]

Agree, it depends on the soil type. Here in Colorado, we have clay like soil, so water tends to roll off the ground. Nonetheless, I took these steps to minimize moisture and so far it has worked well. IE, my neighbors and I had to rebuild our fences due to a major micro-burst a few years ago. Well, we had another one and my surrounding neighbor's cedar fences got destroyed and mine is standing. Their rot can be attributed to concrete and wood shrinkage based on what where the posts broke.

[@deerfish3000]

I apply Thompsons Water Seal on the post, then twice wrap thick tar paper around the bottom two feet of the post and staple it on. I make sure to leave a couple inches of paper past the bottom of the post. I then cut the four corners back to bottom then fold each flap to the bottom and staple. Then I wrap duct tape around the other end of the paper to the post. Then set in the hole and add Quickcrete post cement. Think of it as a tar paper sock for the post.

[@gregvancom]

That's pretty much my take on it. One of my neighbors just got to building a fence in the front yard and wrapped the bottom with a product that would keep the water out from the bottom, but won't keep moisture from absorbing into the post and then traveling down where it can be trapped.

[@deerfish3000]

+gregvancom I thought of that, that's why I heavily spray on Thompson's Water Seal.

[@gregvancom]

Sounds like you've done a good job and as long as you follow the maintenance requirements from the product manufacturer then you could have a fence that will last a long time. Good job and let us know what happens in the future.

[@deerfish3000]

+gregvancom I also wrap duct tape around where the top of the tar paper and the wood meet as to avoid water running into the sock. I'm not saying I've found the ultimate solution, but hopefully a better idea.

[@gregvancom]

Well, we will see in a few years or hopefully a few decades and if you remember feel free to send us some pictures in the future if you have success.

[@gregvancom]

That's good news. However, this method will work all the time. Soil and weather conditions will be a factor. To give you an example, I painted a wood fence post with an oil-based paint in Southern California where it rarely rains, but had a neighbor water the fence with the sprinklers and within less than a year, needed to replace the post again.

[@gregvancom]

You've got a good idea, but you might be forgetting about any moisture around the concrete footing from the soil that can be absorbed into the concrete. If only a small section of the wood underground wasn't covered or sealed, you could end up with a bigger problem than if you left it alone.

[@VigilanceTech]

I think your best bet in most soils is to make a "french drain" under the post of a foot or two of gravel with a "roof" over it of some roofing felt with a hole cut in it just enough so the post sticks down thru. This will prevent the fine dirt from washing down into the gravel obviating the drainage effect.

[@birther1968]

I have fence post put in 1983 and still strong enough for a Hurricane. Good on setting the post on concrete. I would raise the concrete above the soil line so the post does not touch soil.

[@gregvancom]

Definitely and I have a couple in my backyard that might be about the same age, still going strong.

[@gregvancom]

Please keep in mind that foam mixtures won't solve this problem. Foam can actually trap moisture that absorbs through the wood post and works its way down where it can become trapped rotting the post out even faster. Please be advised that there are plenty of people on KZbin who are trying to sell their products by making it sound like your average homeowner is giving you some great advice.

[@gregvancom]

It's funny but ever since I posted this comment about foam mixtures, people quit asking questions, so I must of been right. The product manufacturers must of had people leaving comments like it was the best product ever. I'll keep you posted to what happens in the future.

[@Karma8Kami]

Another option that struck me the other day was to use something like "rustoleum bed liner" or latex spray on a can and cover the bottom of the post in that. Would make for less of a messy installation but I have seen cases where rust forms underneath "bed liner" products so they apparantly are not completely tight, latex should be though.

[@dennismaloy336]

I am using the plastic protective sleeves for ease of changing post when they inevitably rot. I have not seen a comments on this! From what I learned these allow post to breath and last longer. I also put gravel in the bottom, set my post and sleeve together, add a little more gravel around the base then drop in some dry concrete so the mixed I pour on top will not go under the plastic and adhere to the bottom of the post. This in theory allow the post to drain and prevent rot for a much longer period of time. Not sure how good this approach is with clay or a shale base of the hole, but if it does drain and no concrete sticks to the post it should last longer and when the inevitable rot does occur the post should be easy to replace. Not sure why I have not seen any other posts like this?

[@beansgas6821]

That's the same method I use here in the UK, and it rains a lot here!!! my father taught me this same method 45 years ago his fence lasted 40+ years, also he did treat it with used engine oil and paraffin mix 2:1 every 3 to 4 years. Took him 3 to 4 years to save up the used engine oil.

[@julianontiveros7566]

What you recommend using for posts

[@davej-r9153]

Your right about moisture being the main reason but also the additives in the concrete don't help, the best solution is dig the post hole deep enough and secure the post with half house bricks and stones of various sizes (an 8-foot post should have 2 foot in the ground) you then tamp down the bricks and stones firmly until the post is solid. The bricks and stones packing below ground allow the post to remain dry and therefore lasting a lot longer (this is a tried and tested system used way back albeit they did have oak posts back then but now-a-days we have pressure treated wood which will last a long time.)

[@gregvancom]

I'm not about to suggest that your idea doesn't work, but I don't think it would work as well in soils that retain a lot of moisture like clay. Areas with gravel or areas that allow moisture to travel through it easier than clay can accumulate moisture and rot the wood post.

[@davej-r9153]

I do agree if you have a high water table you are always fighting the elements, but water tables rise and lower, with my suggestion even in heavy clay soils the sub soil part of the post has little contact with moisture ( unless you have a high water table ) the half house bricks provide stability the stones provide a non-porous breathable area resulting in longevity for the post with the added bonus of when it is time to replace the post just remove the bricks and stones and fit new post and then replace bricks and stones no extra expense and no concrete lump to remove. Please let me know what you think.

[@gregvancom]

I think the breathable area you're creating will allow water to seep into the post. Bricks also absorbs water and wet bricks in direct contact with wood will allow the lumber to absorb moisture from the bricks, eventually causing it to rot.

[@romansten9]

I thought about plastic too, might try that. the treated wood has moisture in it, so thats going to be there anyway. plastic (and rubber) membranes are what protect underground wood foundations, like the one I built for my house last summer.

[@huazhou7624]

I told my wife the exactly the same idea, she did not believe me, she always think that I am stupid, glad to see this video, I will show her., thanks!

[@TheRanhughes]

She's stoopid.

[@DzinEye]

It would be nice if you included one of the ways to help alleviate this problem, which is to have a bed of gravel below the concrete and have the post continue past the concrete into the gravel. Finally, wetting of the wood is not really the problem, but the cycle of wetting and then drying (dry rot).

[@gregvancom]

I don't have a solution for this problem and it's obvious to me that gravel isn't going to be the solution if it's placed in expansive soil that doesn't drain well.

[@77Avadon77]

that's pretty much the standard logic, gravel underneath concrete gives you drainage. It's not that concrete or wood gets wet, it when they are standing in water for very long periods of time or as you said, wetting and drying in a rapid manner, sprinklers are good for that kind of thing.

[@SoulShurpa]

Always Dome you're concrete at the post base. Trowel it tight make it non porous as possible. Keep all organic matter below that concrete. You'll buy yourself 10yrs on top of the 15 the other gentleman said... And for god sakes people keep your sprinklers off your fences.. Joyous 😊 🙏

[@RicktheRecorder]

All of which is a very roundabout way of saying don't use concrete to set a fence post: it traps rot-inducing water against the post, and is a nightmare to remove when the bottom of the post eventually rots. Use deep-treated wood and set the post in hardcore, with at least 6" (150mm) of hardcore in the base of the hole. The water will tend to drain away from the post, giving good longevity, and when eventually it needs replacing, the task is reasonably simple.

[@b36g]

RicktheRecorder Your the first person to make any sense Tar the post use a couple of cleats foot long opposite ways crush stone on bottom and no cement KISS. Keep it simple stupid

[@DjGabrielEscobar973]

Nature always wins.

[@winstonsmith11]

That's the first accurate statement I've read I these comments.

[@bobbroc7572]

A study I read from the professors at OSU Wood and Science Engineers, proved that the organic fungi and insects in the soil are primarily what breaks down wood fibers, causing it to rot. The fungi organisms rot and decay the post, chemically treated or not.

[@gregvancom]

The only problem I have with wrapping the bottom of fence posts in a waterproof membrane would be any moisture that is absorbed into the wood, then pulled down to the bottom by gravity where it will sit for long periods of time, until the wood starts to rot. It's almost like they would need to wrap the entire post or don't bother wrapping it all.

[@bobbroc7572]

gregvancom You dont wrap the bottom of the fence post. You wrap ROTBLOC around the fence post where the majority of the post below the ground is exposed to organic matter and moisture. There are install photos and specs on the website and facebook site. It works well, is affordable and very simple and affordable for on person to install in a minute. The study posted by the professors at Oregon State University in the Wood Sciences and Engineering Dept. published the results a few years ago.

[@gregvancom]

I probably didn't make myself clear, I would never use a product like the one you're referring to, because of the problems previously mentioned. I guess I've been in the business too long and seen to many products like the one you mention fail and end up costing the property owners even more money in the future.

[@faainspector6353]

Char the area of wood fence posts with a tiger torch till it is blackened good.. Keeps bugs and rot from destroying the wood post.. Try it

[@you2tooyou2too]

The top of the post foundation should be slope shouldered to shed water, and the whole post should be sealed to reduce water & bacterial intrusion. If the base is poured around the post, the post should be sleeved for protection & easy inevitable replacement. The top of the post should also be capped or sloped to avoid standing water & reduce bacterial growth.

[@gregvancom]

Great points

[@chandlerbernasconi5705]

If you want fence posts that will last forever use cedar wood posts and crushed stone instead of concrete so the water can drain. Foamcrete might also be a good substitute since it requires more water to be mixed with it than normal concrete and the fact that it is part foam should mean it holds less water as well. You could also wrap plastic around the bottom of the post, that black plastic roll that looks like a roll of garbage bags that you lay down when framing on concrete works best

[@johncollins2442]

One solution to this that is on the net is simply to use galvanized steel pipes instead of wood for your posts. There are a number of companies that sell brackets which you can bolt/screw to the pipe and will hold the 2 x 4 frame to attach your pickets to. The best brackets I've seen have a lip on the bottom to hold the 2 x 4's. Otherwise they only have holes to put screws through that hold the 2 x 4's on. The screws tend to have so much pressure on them that they cause the 2x 4's to eventually crack.

[@emmanuelguidry1947]

Hi, in my studies I found out that Fungus is the main culprit of rot. Wood is a living organism and The Fungi Kingdom are responsible for decomposition of living cells by producing enzymes that break down the organisms and feed on the carbon. And Ironically in the process of making cement its heated up break down the carbon and releasing the bonds to a power and then adding water to start hydration reaction to reconstruction the bond as Concrete. So Concrete with no carbon that attracts water with a 4x4 peice of wood is a worst case scenario, pretty much a 3 dimensional water highway to the wood

[@MartinJG100]

Oxygen and sunshine/warmth is also a vital catalyst which is why timber in north facing positions or in deep water will always last longer. This seems counter intuitive but the mix of sun/air speeds up the process of decay which is ideal for bacteria/bugs etc. I am in the UK. All my wooden framed windows that are south/west facing have shown earlier signs of potential decay than the north facing ones and I am talking about more than 100 years. I now use linseed oil based products, oil/putty/paint. With careful maintenance, they will last for ever simply because linseed oil nourishes and protects the wood and is a natural preservative. We have quite a few period properties over here going back many years and time and the old ways are invariably the best ways in the long run. However, it must be said that the quality of timber today is nowhere near as good as it was many years ago. The real problem is down to modern day short term economics. Decent seasoned timber takes time and time is money. The modern throw away approach is good for business. Back on the posts, last year, I noticed early signs of wet rot on a pressure treated post so I ran the heat gun over it to kill the bacteria and woodlice and then simply added some linseed oil and ran the heat gun over it again to help it to soak in. This year, no real evidence of further decay. The wood is hard and more important, no woodlice which feed on rotting wood.

[@gregvancom]

Thanks for sharing and I've heard good things about linseed oil, but never used it. Interesting about south west facing wood windows and I'm guessing those are the windows with the most sun shining on them.

[@MartinJG100]

@@gregvancom Yep. Wetter and warmer weather from the prevailing winds, most of which comes from the USA on the Gulf Stream :)

[@mastermike4103]

Just planted an 8' by 7" square post & hung a field gate on it. However, I put a 12" deep sump of compacted stones in the hole first, dropped another 12" of compacted stones around the bottom of the post and THEN added the concrete.

[@gregvancom]

Let us know in 10 years how it's doing and keep the ideas coming, because one of these days we'll figure out what works best.

[@mastermike4103]

@@gregvancom Roger that. If I am still around in 10 years. Might just plant a time capsule (with photos) in the ground near the post.

[@m4rkscott]

when the posts are dry prior to installation if you stand them in a large barrel of old engine oil thinned down with diesel and creosote for 24 hours then allow to dry off for a couple of days before fitting they will probably last you out, I fitted about a hundred with this method about 30 years ago and no sign of rot yet

[@jeffharrison2840]

+mark scott THAT I believe...isnt' that basically what telephone poles are treated with?

[@ScottRutledge]

Exactly! And the reason this is true: water doesn't cause rot at all! It's several types of fungi that actually cause rot and this methods of treatment essentially fills the woods cellular structure with a poison that the brown fungi cannot latch onto and take hold to colonize and begin eating the wood structure.

[@walt4908]

Please, old dirty rich in heavy metals motor oil? Thinned with diesel and creosote?? Don't we have enough water contamination already???? You must have a shallow well that is contaminated by this toxic cocktail nearby or some other explanation for this horrible suggestion. Maybe you have some DDT or chlordane you can soak the posts in too while you are at it . Keep them pesky insects away. Maybe some radioactive material like radium-226 so the posts glow in the dark and you can find your way home at night. And remember to put a lead cap on them to help them last longer.

[@SecureSet-Fence-Installation]

For the reason stated in the video, the utility companies use our product to protect the base or under ground section of the utility pole. Our product is a close cell material that protects the under ground part of the pole from moisture and insects. Check out our video "Easiest Fastest Way to Set a Fence Post" "Fencing Made Easy" and we also show a good comparison between concrete and our product the video is "Fence Pole Testing" I think you will enjoy them. I like your video very informative.

[@treeclimbing7798]

PRE-Soak Wood Posts w/a 50/50 mix of used motor oil & diesel fuel. That wood may Never Rot. It is perfectly Safe as it Soaks into and stays in the wood. Makes a Great Dark Wood Stain for the entire Wood Fence too, that can be re-applied as necessary.

[@gregvancom]

I have a hard time using products that haven't been thoroughly time-tested and don't blame you for waiting until someone else test them out. It's actually one of the reasons why I make these videos, to inform people to stay away from things that promise more than they can deliver.

[@birther1968]

First use pressure treated posts. Next dig the hole 4- inches deeper than the post and put a rock or broken brick for the post to set on. Next when you pour the concrete make sure the concrete surrounds the post on the bottom and set the concrete about 3 inches above the topsoil. Done this and the post last 30+ years and still as solid as the day they were installed. And this is Southeast Texas with moist soil and lots of rain.

[@gregvancom]

Sounds good to me.

[@77Avadon77]

Problem with concrete above the top soil is you're going to have a hell of a time running no climb fencing, chain link, or boards across it unless you don't mind having a 3" tall gap near the colums. Also your fencing won't lay flat against the posts. That's why most people don't do it.

[@birther1968]

I do not put a horizontal plank across the bottom. I spray round up under my fnece and have a clear area at the bottom of the fence line. The vertical plank that butts up next to the 4x4 post, I put a notch around the cement plug. My dad's has fence post poured this way and +30 years later they are solid and no play.

[@77Avadon77]

birther1968 That's definitely one way to do it. One advantage of having a horizontal rail near the bottom is for attaching vertical barriers that go down into the soil, like hog wire or PT wood or that kind of thing to stop critters and dogs from trying to go under. Gives you a little more strength having a rail low down like that. This also depends on where you live. If you live in rainy Seattle rounding the concrete above grade is a great idea. If you live in Phoenix it's totally unnecessary. ;)

[@gregvancom]

All you need to do is water the fence regularly and don't worry, it won't grow or should I say, it shouldn't grow.

[@construction010]

Try using CCA pressure treated pine like we do in NZ. Your posts will last for 40 years plus. By the way CCA stands for Chromated copper arsenate

[@gregvancom]

+Johnny Newton Thanks for sharing and there is no doubt in my mind that this is a fantastic product for preserving wood, but you might not be able to find it or use it in your area. It's not a product I would use, because of the environmental problems and even if you are allowed to use it, I would type the words Chromated copper arsenate into your favorite search engine to gather more information before using it.

[@spinkyspankyful]

+gregvancom Creosote is number one if the environmentalists will let you use it. CCA @ 0.6 lbs./cu.ft. is second choice. Nothing is better that a telephone pole cut to length, if you can't buy a creosote post.

[@birther1968]

Here is how to rot proof a fence post. Put a half brick on the bottom of the hole (so the wood is in-cased in cement and not touching the dirt) and the bring the cement up above the dirt line a 4+ inches. I live in Houston with fence posts 34 years old and they as solid as the day we put them in. Hint take thick construction paper and make a ring about 6 inches in diameter. Put the ring over the fence post to the bottom and let that be your form to bring the cement up 4 inches. Over time the paper will rot off.

[@777teamoati]

what about using metal for posts? I saw one with some industrial looking metal for posts for a 6" wooden fence. I suume this is better? Not sure where to buy these metal silver posts? They simply placed a wooden picket over the metal post to give illusion of it being all metal.

[@norocketsciencebuild5371]

Hi, great insight into the concept! What about using expanding foam instead of concrete?

[@gregvancom]

I've mentioned this in other comments about foam, but if foam keeps the water out, than it will also keep it trapped if it gets between the gaps or cracks, making it a bigger problem than a better solution.

[@copkhan007]

Instead of concrete use foam mixture. Pour the foam mixture inside the sauna tube around the post. Remember that the wood won't rot in concrete within few months or years. It will eventually over a very long period of time (20 + years) depending on what part of the country you live in.

[@Karma8Kami]

The solution is quite simple really, get some pond liner (or any plastic really), drape it around the bottom of the post as well as the hole itself before you insert it into/pour in the concrete, glue it to the post then cut of the excess after the concrete sets. Won't hinder the fence from ever rotting but it should increase it's lifespan by at least a factor of X4

[@gregvancom]

Most of my videos are based off of my experience in the business and I haven't found anything that would provide anyone with a guarantee. I've seen too many different types of wood posts rotting and some of these were saturated with one type of chemical or another.

[@TheCladi8or]

What if you angle or ramp the concrete down on all four sides of the post so that the water will shed away and not toward it?

[@joshuasmith1215]

Fungus rots posts and it needs moisture to do so. Seems like the way to go is to not use concrete and to brush on engine oil diluted with diesel. Treat the entire post before installation if you build a fence. Reapply occasionally and they will last many years.

[@gregvancom]

It sound like an environmentalist wouldn't like it, but it might be good for your pocket book.

[@patrickhalseth1632]

So I installed a fence with pressure treated 4x4 posts and simple (lazy) concrete plugs. 3 years later i've got posts rotting off at the top of the plug:( I've started replacing them as they fail with a post in a formed plug (suana tube, above grade domed top, caulked joint). Is this method worth the extra effort or am I just whistling in the dark? thanks

[@frithsteadfarm904]

I install fence in Florida I never concrete line post only the gate post. I have witnessed firsthand what concreting a post will do. Rots in every dang time. I’ve been installing Fence for four years

[@gregvancom]

Again, the problem I have, if I don't use the concrete is that a 6 foot tall wood fence tends to lean over time and sometimes fall down in certain soils.

[@Bolable]

Facing the same problem for some years on a beach region soil in North/East Europe. Got small fence ~ 1000mm from ground. Always rots at the place where soil and air meets. This winter got an idea - Dig in the ground stainless steel rod with a (100mm x 100mm) foot, (600mm long and +/- 300mm deep in ground), drill hole (270mm - 250mm deep) in the middle of the pole base. Stick the pole on the rod avoiding the pole touching earth. If need to replace, just take off the pole and switch to a new one. There is no wight to fight for the pole as i have only one horizontal log till the next pole. Just like the cow corral on field. Any tips or criticism?

[@gregvancom]

Bolable It sounds like a good idea, but how does it hold up in strong winds. My main concern would be building a 6 foot tall wood fence and having it blow over during a strong wind. It seems like it would be a great idea for a 3 foot tall wood fence.

[@Bolable]

gregvancom 1000mm = 1m = 1 meter = 3.2808399 feet (3 feet 3⅜ inches). Thats right also I have no pressure from wind as I have only one horizontal log. I believe the idea should be also usable for higher fences and pretty strong wind. Solution - deeper in ground and deeper the steel rod in the pole.

[@gregvancom]

You've got a good idea, but I don't know if it would be cost-effective. You can purchase large metal posts that will last for decades, but whether or not this method is cost-effective would be up to the homeowner.

[@A10TOES]

I have had 2 'pressure treated' fence post break off at ground level, these were put into the ground w/cement around the posts..gravel on the bottom first. I have sandy soil. So yeah they break off. Now I am worried about the arbor that was built over my deck.

[@tdotz881]

Brush the post that will be in the ground with 50% oil and diesel. Also avoid putting the concrete under the post. If possible put crush gravel. Like this it allows water to drain and not sit in the concrete

[@Karma8Kami]

Mix up a strong solution of water and lye, spray/splash it on the fence regularly and it will rot/dissolve fairly quickly.

[@Wilcosach]

I actually double-coat the wood with weather-proof wood glue before burying the post in concrete. Wood Glue are actually not expensive. Make sure to paint it thick at the ends of the poles.

[@walt4908]

I like that trick too. I use the new waterproof glues and thin them out a little so the glue can soak into the wood.

[@gregvancom]

I like your youtube name and thanks for the chemistry lesson.

[@abadperez1112]

How do we prevent the 4 x 4 from rotting. Hello!

[@gregvancom]

+Abad perez Don't bury them in the ground or set them below ground level in a concrete footing. Place them in a nice dry spot and protect from everything that will damage them.

[@rickdekard7237]

I always slap plenty of bitumen mastic around the part thats sunk in concrete

[@jstriker623]

I've read about people using roof repair sealer.

[@slimjim7411]

The trick is to prevent fungi growth. Everything outside gets wet, and everything wood that gets wet will rot. The longer it stays wet the faster it will rot. Used motor oil and diesel fuel mixed can be applied to fence posts even just around the base every few years and make them last much much longer. Otherwise modern treated lumber you might get 10 years if you're lucky but no matter what you do if you plant it, and leave it. Then it's going to rot eventually.

[@adus123]

hi sorry if this has been asked before. I have seen theas things called post savers that heat shrink sleeves to the post about at ground level not all the way down the post. will rapping the post work just as well in cling film parcel wrap work as well. I have allotment and the water table is very low and good soil so posts tend to rot fast.

[@gregvancom]

+Adrian Eyre Maybe it's time for a video, because this is a question I've received numerous times. The problem I have with wrapping the bottom is that moisture can be absorbed in through the upper section of the wood post and work its way down where it would be trapped, rotting the post even faster. You might consider using metal's posts, but I really don't have anything that would provide you with something that would work well.

[@adus123]

+gregvancom I dont mean to rapping all of the post to the bottom just the part that meets the ground level like on www.postsaver.com they claim that 100% Effective; Zero reported fence post or utility pole failures due to ground rot in over 20 years. using there system that sum how slides onto the post and is heat shrink on. or are they doing something i have mist here.

[@jonathanmarquis866]

What if you dig the hole much deeper and add rocks or gravel at the bottom and have more concrete with a more round hole? would you prevent water from getting all the way to the wood or at least prevent much more water than would have got there?

[@gregvancom]

The problem I see with using gravel around the perimeter of a wood post with concrete is that it could allow moisture from the surrounding ground to settle in the area with the gravel, especially with clay soil. Check out some of our other videos for more information at our website.www.homebuildingandrepairs.com/fences/index.html

[@juliehenderson1672]

Should the wood post be sealed with oil based paint or another protectant before placing it into the cement? Also, should we create a drainage hole from the bottom corner of the cement ? Or would that make more problems? Sand at base, then concrete, then post? Your expertise is appreciated. Thank you.

[@gregvancom]

You should find more answers in this playlist Fence Design And Building Videos - kzbin.info/aero/PLGyVeAgAJ-tkXRqWKi_iOedGXXHKBLHFo

[@gregvancom]

I've never had good luck sealing the bottom of a fencepost, but others have. You might find what you're looking for at our website in the fence section or by checking out this playlist kzbin.info/aero/PLGyVeAgAJ-tkXRqWKi_iOedGXXHKBLHFo .

[@pwest2986]

Hi, would adding loose gravel at the base of the post beneath the concrete help in draining water and reduce the rotting ?

[@gregvancom]

I'm pretty sure I made a few more videos and they can be found here video.gregvan.com/fences.htm that might be more helpful. It all depends on the soil, its ability to retain water and how this water drains away from the fence post. Sometimes gravel will actually provide the surrounding soil with an area to collect water and eventually damage the post. I'm not a big fan of installing gravel around fence posts for this reason.

[@FREDBLA]

Ok so. What is your advice solution !? Ths a lot for this clear vidéo

[@gregvancom]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/qqjXkqibi5KGp7s see if this helps.

[@trevordinwoodie3231]

In addition to putting a post in concrete, why not cover the post with driveway tar and line the hole with a plastic garbage bag before pouring? This would eliminate as much potential for moister as possible.

[@mitchpickett2576]

Lack of resin. I use primitive methods to construct practice camps in the woods. I've found that the logs with a abundance of resin last 10x longer than the ones with little resin. I planted a fat lighter stump vertically in the ground 5 years ago to use as a splitting log the bark is all rotted away and the white flesh under the bark but the inner resin level has preserved the stump for the most part.

[@gregvancom]

By resin are you referring to sap and could you provide us with an example of the trees that were cut down and used. I do know that some trees last longer than others when used for exterior projects, but it might be helpful to find out what your trees are.

[@gregvancom]

Hypothetically?

[@markb7692]

Spray the pressure treated post with liquid rubber twice and let it dry before sinking it in concrete. Creosote the post above ground level each year.. should last 30 years

[@sunshine5349]

How Do Postsaver Sleeves Stop Your Fence Posts Rotting? - KZbin I think this video explains it better. Water does not cause rot by itself. it is the combination of water, funi and oxygen typically +/- a few inches at ground level that kill a post. If you jsut wrap around this area it greatly extends life of post.

[@mcconn746]

I was told that posts rot because of bacteria eating at them at ground level. The bacteria cannot live very far below the soil and posts do tend to rot through at that point more than below the ground.

[@gregvancom]

That could be the case, but most of the fence posts I've replaced have been rotted from the top of the ground, all the way down. Remember, most of the information in my videos are from an observational standpoint of the years I spent working on a variety of different construction projects.

[@mustanglovernutnate9188]

To prevent rot in the concrete, should we paint the bottom 30” of the post with asphalt roofing tar to help?

[@gregvancom]

I've only done it once and it rotted the post out within a year. However, I've heard "suggest" that they've had good luck doing it.

[@tubeonline629]

if you will put a thick mil. trash bag on bottom of post, set post in hole concrete up to ground level, slope top of mix away from post. never concrete a treated post unless you do this or some way of keeping post and mix from touching after mix sets just trim bag at top.

[@gregvancom]

+tubeonline629 You could try it, but I think the expansion and contraction of the wood and concrete together could rip the plastic over time.

[@bensonchan1798]

would using a treated wood as posts make any difference? thank you for the video

[@gregvancom]

See if this link helps kzbin.info/www/bejne/ipnIiGeirtOGoc0 There are treated woods that last longer than others and the answer to your question would be yes you got a better grade of lumber with more chemicals.

[@efilimone]

so how to avoid that? should i coat first the footing of the post with sealant then foot the cocrete? what is the best way...i want to build a pergola on deck and im trying to figure out ways of avoidind that

[@gregvancom]

I really don't have a solution to the problem and am still working on it, but this video might help Slope Concrete Fence Footing To Drain Water Away From Wood Post .

[@toddhutchins8877]

Try using asphalt milling for footing and back fill around post works good

[@gregvancom]

My asphalt milling, are you talking about using sections from a road or driveway that was removed?

[@toddhutchins8877]

gregvancom yes the milling that are milled up by a machine from rd way or drive ways

[@gregvancom]

@@toddhutchins8877 I gotcha, so the millings are pliable and if they can be formed into a footing as strong as concrete, then it sounds like you figured out a new method. I just don't know if this would work in areas with strong winds that might require a concrete footing. Great idea though and something that others might want to look into.

[@dufreebell]

I wish there was a solution to the problem towards the end of your video. Graphics used were good though.

[@gregvancom]

You're not the first person to expect something else, but that's why try to provide viewers with titles suggesting what you're going to find in the video. I do have other videos at our website that you might find interesting about building wood fences and that would be in the outdoor section.

[@44wizbang]

You can find used waste oil free at most oil changing stations. Mix enough kerosene into the oil to allow it to easily penetrate into the wood. Fill a 55 gallon barrel or some other suitable container's with enough oil to reach about 6 inches higher on the post than it will be buried. In other words have six inches of oil treated post above the ground level. Make sure your post are completely dry, then stand the post on end in the container and pour in the waste oil to the desired height on the post that you want. Soak the posts for a week or more, and as the oil is absorbed you might have to keep adding more oil. Waste oil is a good preservative and also prevents water from being absorbed into the wood. It is also much safer to use than commercial wood preservative and will also last longer.

[@yesyoumay]

+44wizbang That will certainly help some, but even treated posts are victims of this process in moist regions.

[@royhoco5748]

I use this mixture to treat the wood floors on my trailers and the decks on rental properties, two coats and it is good for maybe 1 1/2 years, it smells for a few days and then goes away, this mixture sheds water better and longer than any else I have tried

[@royhoco5748]

I think you can still purchase creosote in 5 gallon cans or you can try the liquid used for sealing driveways. soak the post for several days

[@dattape2828]

cheap people use used motor oil. sure, let's use some carcnogen to save the wood while it seeps into your well water & tomato garden. stop the insanity people. think about how hazardous waste can be deadly before you do stupid stuff like this

[@walt4908]

good for you. Some guy above suggested same solution. Wish they could understand the stupidity of their actions. No used motor oil or anything that can leach into OUR groundwater.

[@erwin021777]

Isn't there a waterproofing mix you could add to the concrete mix? That would solve the problem of concrete absorbing moisture, wouldn't it?

[@gregvancom]

There might be, but water being absorbed from the concrete isn't the only problem, the wood post will actually absorb water also and if it sits inside of a concrete footing that won't allow moisture to leave, then it could be trapped and accelerate the process of wood decay.

[@erwin021777]

gregvancom that's true and I'm learning a lot from watching different videos. I'm no expert and not even an amateur carpenter. I'm just throwing in ideas. How about the paint they use on boats? Would it prevent the post from absorbing moisture?

[@walt4908]

It is the swelling and shrinking of the wood that allow water to enter between the concrete and post. Concrete is porous it can be made water resistant and nearly water proof with the addition of fly ash and/or latex compounds but it will still retain some amount of moisture.

[@gregvancom]

If I could answer your question, I would probably be a multimillionaire. The best advice I could give you, would be to check with a contractor in your area who builds fences, because different states and countries have different soils and climates, making it difficult to provide you with one specific method that works better than another one.

[@beverlyannsjoblom]

Please Help. I had a "modern" wood mailbox made/installed (NOT made using a typical mailbox post) 3 years ago. It quickly started to rot at the base. I thought maybe it wasn't primed/painted properly and have had it "repaired" 3 times in 3 years. This is an expensive handmade mailbox structure (but the guy obviously didnt know how to install it). Made with exterior plywood. It is 21" wide (horizontally) and 4" depth (horizontally) and 5 feet tall. It's a tall skinny wooden rectangular tower, pillar, wall - like box with the actual mailbox attached to the front of it 3/4 of the way up the structure. It was set in concrete and the concrete is 2" above ground and has no slope. The wood was not allowed to dry before he painted it. The structure has only been painted above ground. Underground (in the concrete) is raw wood. I live in the deep south. Should I dig up the "clay" dirt and add sand all around the concrete? Can a concrete slope be added on top of the concrete base? All suggestions are welcomed. In short, wood rooting at the base of the structure. The concrete base is raised 2" above ground and does NOT have a slope away from the structure. I'm glad to send photos if that would make it easier. Thank you!

[@gregvancom]

+Bev Cotton You can send pictures, but what about using a metal post? I don't think I would replace it with wood if it only lasted three years.

[@beverlyannsjoblom]

+gregvancom Thank you greg for your reply. I don't see where to upload a photo of my mailbox problem. Anyway, I'm not willing to remove my somewhat new and expensive wood mailbox for a metal one at this time. I'm just trying to find a "band aid" for it. I think I'm going to cover it with cedar slats.

[@gregvancom]

You can visit our website for contact information. A link to the website can be found at our KZbin main channel.