Why do people HATE Age Of Sigmar?

[@majorkill]

A lot of people released their bowels upon Age of Sigmar, me included, but did it deserve it? To get in on an epic adventure, read Journey's Through Faladon here : www.amazon.com/dp/B08DRRN342 Or if you want to get in on something a bit more erotic go here : www.patreon.com/majorkill

[@wraithface4410]

Why you deleting me papi 😭😒

[@wraithface4410]

Also it's spelt bowels not "bowls"... Edit it papi

[@majorkill]

@@wraithface4410 Thank you my child

[@wraithface4410]

@@majorkill uwu *sits on your lap* read my old hagrid and Harry fan fiction Plz plz plz papi "it takes alot to take a giant" on archivesofourown.

[@TenOfTwenty]

You should narrate the book and put it on audible

[@towenaar4142]

AOS is so stupid, the entire game is decided on who wins the second turn. I much prefer 40k where the game is decided on who wins the first turn.

[@drakor98]

You had me in the first half, I’m not gonna lie.

[@mogwaiman6048]

Lmao

[@Pedro-ho2xj]

@@drakor98 could you say he had you on the first turn?

[@Iratepaddy]

*Laughs in 7th edition eldar barrage /wave serpent*

[@greenghost2008]

Omg i died laughing

[@kubikkuratko188]

I think age of sigmar is cool and all but destroying classical fantasy for it was not a good trade

[@cronotekk9193]

You can play any number of other games for generic fantasy, the fact that none of those games are popular after the death of WHFB show that most of the “fans” never played the game

[@publiopaolacci495]

Cronotekk you’ve got a lot of time to shit on fantasy, uh?

[@vahlen5281]

@@cronotekk9193 The big problem in your argument is that Old Warhammer wasn´t generic fantasy, just like 40k isn´t generic sci-fi. The Interest in it was and is definitely still out there, hence the success of the TWW titles and the general resurface of products in the WF setting. Warhammer Fantasy´s problem was that it existed during a time where stuff like it was still mostly considered nerdy and uncool. Combine that with the usual problems that have plagued GW since the beginning like poor luck/choice in distributing licences to third parties, high prices for a relatively hard to access hobby and a general lack of solid marketing strategies. 40k would have shared the same fate, of that I am certain, if GW didn´t manage to make that profitable deal with THQ back then.

[@IronFreakV]

I feel the same way. Out of all the Warhammer settings AoS is my least favourite, but at the same time is still prefer AoS over most conventional fantasy

[@PyreOwnuge]

@@publiopaolacci495 AoS is selling, WHFB wasn't, that's the bottom line.

[@HardlyGaming]

I think a lot of people were just insulted. Decades of lore, fan love, history and most factions got less than a paragraph to be wiped out. That plus Skaven just did 99% of the wiping out pissed a lot of people off.

[@tyranitararmaldo]

Yeah. Skaven had a lot of bad blood from non-Skaven players due to how utterly annoying an army they were to fight against. Nobody likes playing against a gunline, especially one that can just end the game almost instantly, one way or the other. It's not satisfying to spend 40 mins deploying all your models, only to have the game over and you pack your stuff up instantly.

[@HardlyGaming]

@@tyranitararmaldo Exactly the same in the TWW2 game where Skaven can out range damage any army, including Wood Elves.

[@pythonking16.59]

@@tyranitararmaldo So the Skaven were the Space Marines of Fantasy, gotcha lol. Never been more glad to collect Skaven 👌🤑

[@BlackSabbath628]

@@pythonking16.59 Nah, they're the Tau. Annoying, long range spam, sort of crap in melee, slight Japanese influence (Ninja rats) it fits. Bretonnians were supposed to be the Space Marine analogue.

[@BlackSabbath628]

@Pasha Staravoitau Really? Must have been a meta shift then. I remember them abusing their long range, fireblades and marker lights to create truly fiendish gunlines.

[@rellek4053]

It’s simple. I liked warhammer fantasy and the stuff I liked about it ain’t in age of Sigmar

[@kapitanbeuteltier5889]

I thought the same, but recently the stories featured a more down to earth perspective, which I really like and the diversity of factions and units (Its still a wargame after all) is just *chefs kiss*

[@tervindar507]

This right here, we played the game for a few years so have had plenty of experience but ultimately learned that i didn't want to play a fantasy version of 40k. The rules and gameplay itself was what pushed us away from. Where it's more so about lining up combos with endless amounts of rules from 4 different books lol. Ultimately, I just prefer rank and flank style games and am thankful other games such as ParaBellum Conquest and Kings of War fill that niche.

[@barriolimbas]

Yes, changes NOBODY ASKED FOR!

[@highmarshalhelbrecht4715]

This.

[@MegaJiffyman]

🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@sofaking1611]

I was exposed to warhammer fantasy in middle school (no money) And now that i have time and money (since graduating college and getting a job) the models that i was interested in, Bretonnians, are no longer available :/

[@Cthulhu9292]

Check out 9th age! Is a community driven version of Warhammer Fantasy, but more balanced and Tbh a better version of it! (Kingdom of Equatain is old bretonnia)

[@Iratepaddy]

I agree wtf is wrong with the ninth age army books they are fucking retarded total war based bullshit

[@chozer1]

@Вхламинго THE LADY WILL HEAR ABOUT THIS INSULT

[@gus9663]

Damn. That's legit sad to hear 😞

[@maskedmalarky8706]

You could use them for cities of sigmar there similar enough

[@jamesmowatt6736]

It still makes me smile every time someone actually acknowledges how absolutely stupid OP the Skaven were in End Times. The whole damn thing could be dissolved down to “The Skaven did it”.

[@CBRN-115]

Deus Ex Rattus I heard GW is re-writing the End Times to polish it. I hope they make it good

[@valtersplume3726]

Exactly. Skaven crushed the most stubborn and enduring race of the world, the Dwarves, like pests. Heck, even after their general was dead, they weren't weakened in the slightest, they still effortlessly destroyed the Karaz-a-Karak, the fortress of fortresses. As far as I know, Skaven are cowards and thus they should've ran for the hills when Thorgrim squashed Queek.

[@Nomadith]

...not to mention casually wiping out like 80-ish percent of Cathay, leaving the Jade Emperor and a few boats left of people. They essentially pulled an operation Barbarossa, just in all directions at once and won for the most part

[@matthewthenarniafan8074]

Not to mention that they BLEW UP THE FUCKING MOON and killed two continents

[@Royal3Cheez]

It was always part of fantasy lore that if the skaven empire united they could easily overrun the entire old world.

[@brentsims6218]

Always a 40k player, I never had an interest in fantasy... Then Total War: Warhammer happened...

[@robertnelson9599]

Same here.

[@theonesithtorulethemall]

It got me into warhammer in total for real

[@Alex-pj8nz]

But the setting and game play is warhammer fantasy

[@mjohns6636]

@@Alex-pj8nz The op didn’t say anything about AOS. He basically said he only enjoyed 40K and after playing TW warhammer he now likes and enjoys Warhammer fantasy.

[@funkydown]

it was the vermintide for me. but yeah, videogames are the most important thing in warhammer. more important than tabletop

[@yamahadrag69]

You're right about Slaanesh being the most relatable. Your description of the farmer's descent in the Slaanesh video genuinely creeped me out...

[@TheArthurkan]

If you live in the States you will be praying to Father Nurgle in a few weeks

[@arnigeir1597]

it was pretty Slaanesh.

[@yamahadrag69]

@@TheArthurkan I do live in the states, and no I won't. A) Because it's got a 99.9% recovery rate and B) I'd pull a move straight from the Dark Angels and walk into a furnace before I pray to the God of Pus and Diarrhea. XD

[@yamahadrag69]

As of now this comment has 69 likes, the most Slaaneshi number possible. lol

[@zpascual6869]

@@yamahadrag69 nah mate tzeentch is trying to get in on that

[@emperormarcusaureliusanton5995]

"Skavenblight can, should, must, and will, blow up the moon." - End Times summarized

[@dougdimmedome5552]

Age of Sigmar is a good example of the mantra “you can only improve after you hit rock bottom”.

[@mogwaiman6048]

8th edition of WHFB was trash and I don't miss it. And 2nd edition of AoS is amazing.

[@mikey_vengenz]

@@mogwaiman6048 agreed

[@mogwaiman6048]

@jpala821 you don't play lore bro. Also the lore is getting better.

[@mogwaiman6048]

@jpala821 to you, I'm enjoying it and look forward to its progression. The game is only 5 years old.

[@mogwaiman6048]

@jpala821 Because it's only been out for 5 years. We've gone through the Realmgate Wars and we're still in the Soul Wars. These developments take time. Look how barren whfb was in its first edition.

[@circeciernova1712]

I can't forget the corporate IP law shenanigans. GW wanted a full trademark on "Dwarves" and "Elves". When these applications were (rightfully) denied, GW got pissy and completely replaced the elves and dwarves as factions. The corporate side of GW really is comparable to a bad case or Fournier's Gangrene.

[@alroslee6931]

Warhammer fantasy was near perfect. Its a mix of low fantasy and high fantasy. Like how the empire is like the german gothic/roman empire, knights in 14th century armor and reislaufer looking empire troops. Then put them on a survival against the many factions such as vampire counts, ratlings, egyptian undead and a barbaric North. So epic.

[@Matthew-3939]

Exactly, reason why many liked Fantasy so much because you could tie it to real world history (the whole planet of Fantasy is basically earth with added Atlantis).

[@cronotekk9193]

Literally 1 faction is somewhat low fantasy, and the empire itself has numerous wizards, magical laser tanks, and flying magical monsters they ride

[@vanivanov9571]

@@cronotekk9193 The highest fantasy concepts from WHF don't have a thing on AoS. I think that was a terrible mistake, to make everything so pointlessly magical you can have cavemen fighting against demi gods and steampunk dwarves and nudists.

[@cronotekk9193]

Van Ivanov high fantasy isn’t a relative term, WHFB was high fantasy, AoS is mythic fantasy

[@vanivanov9571]

@@cronotekk9193 High fantasy isn't a relative term? So a story with one tiny magical element is the same as DnD?

[@juliovictormanuelschaeffer8370]

RIP Brettonia and Tomb Kings. You will be missed.

[@Nementame]

Von Carstein too, there are still undeads but they look so shitty now.

[@Kataramenos_69]

@@Nementame there are many old models from fantasy

[@karlarden6260]

And RIP Dogs if War. Tilea still needs defenders 😔

[@FlayedFather]

Last time I checked, while they didn't get new rules or models, Tomb Kings can still be played

[@cronotekk9193]

They still have rules and you can easily just buy third parties to replace em. But we all know you never played WHFB anyway

[@cultofmalgus1310]

End Times: Everyone I love is dead.

[@opheliadarkthorn]

Seems three years Though maybe four Someone drops dead Whom I adore You love someone There will be grief The kiss of death Lips of a thief Goddamn it...

[@jusnogood1715]

This guy does so much stuff, lorewammer channel with a twist, hentai calendar, and now author

[@vb1564]

mmm *hentai*

[@jusnogood1715]

Cheeki Breeki mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[@rabbiama2940]

And also a Slaanishi Cultist on the side.

[@CBRN-115]

Majorkill didn't strike me as a writer. This is quite amazing

[@Ake-TL]

Jusnogood 1 there was one video about work out.

[@rickyfrench6844]

Just make it that Ikit claw survived the end times and is still alive as a fully cyborg rat, than I’ll get behind it.

[@nathancarignan8074]

... Go read Hamilcar Champion of the Gods.

[@rickyfrench6844]

Why? DOES MY FAVORITE RAT STILL LIVE!?!?

[@nathancarignan8074]

@@rickyfrench6844 In death he has become more powerful than you can imagine... Seriously, read it. Best Ikit Claw stuff out there without him being the PoV

[@rickyfrench6844]

I’ll definitely check it out. It’s actually ikit right?

[@nathancarignan8074]

@@rickyfrench6844 oh yeah. Minor name change since he's going a bit loopy Edit: some words

[@calvinjoshuasalas3474]

"The survivors look like they're on their 10th cycle of chemo therapy" I *died*

[@onionhat745]

Coincidentally, Slaanesh gets talked about more in AoS than he does in 40k, where he only seems to exist when discussing Eldar or as an excuse to sperg about Fulgrim and the Primarchs. There are three distinct Slaaneshi philosophies in AoS that feel quite different and even have unique rules on the tabletop. Slaanesh armies are also much more common in AoS than in 40k. I used to be afraid of Slaanesh being squatted, but he is clearly here to stay. Edit: Malekith being a Chaos God isn't canon and was just a mistake by the writer, thank goodness. There's been much gnashing of teeth about that blurb.

[@maceja5890]

but wasn't slaanesh created because of eldar overpopulation which happened way past the age of sigmar?

[@Yormolch]

@@maceja5890 40k is not warhammer fantasy, and thus not AoS The Lore for both universes is different and in AoS there was a different time and reason for slaneshs creation

[@maceja5890]

@@Yormolch ah i see

[@gilgamesh7055]

I feel like your just waiting for someone to point out that you called Slaanesh a "he", but tbh, your not really wrong xD

[@farseeraradrel4808]

@@Yormolch Actually, they did confirmed in a White Dwarf that Slaanesh's backstory and origins is the same for all three universe (being created, or "awakened" by the Eldar), but with the Warp being the Warp, the Chaos God's reach simply reaches to any universes that Games Workshop created, without much sense for temporality or space since...well, it is the Warp.

[@randyruger9063]

I never played Warhammer, but have been absolutely hooked on the lore. I really enjoyed the fantasy setting, but was shocked when I got to the end times stuff.

[@SigmatusX]

For a point of contention, I think some people genuinely liked fantasy battles, tabletop and fighting with friends. Age of Sigmar made some cool models, good rule set, attention, and people playing it. I can't remember the last time someone was talking about their fantasy army, that mostly went to 40k. My gripe is that I wasn't in it for just tabletop play. I became a Warhammer fantasy fan in the early 00s with Mark of Chaos, fantasy novels and was attracted to it for the heaps upon heaps of lore and books it offered in this setting. It was fantasy, grimdark, and had some really cool original ideas for a fantasy genre. It was clear the makers of the setting had a real love of actual history, too, as seen in the aesthetics, terminology, linguistics and civilization inspirations a lot of the factions had. It was a cool world, and a very good playground for video games, books and campaigns. Age of Sigmar's setting just looks like Magic the Gathering's Multiverse. Separate, distinct, one-dimensional realms representing an aspect. So many fantasy universes do this already. There is nothing compelling about death-guys attack fire-guys, while golden good guys fight red bad guys. Warhammer Fantasy is to Age of Sigmar what Norse Mythology is to Marvel's Thor. One isn't pretty, it's convoluted, it's meshed into parts of our history and has been around a long time The other is sterilized, easily discernible, highly stylized and utterly forgettable.

[@theStamax]

Very good way of putting it. Couldn't agree more. I'm in a similar boat with you. What would have gone over better (as in better for the fans and genuinely superior) could have been a soft reset of the world. Keeping major parts but destroying heaps of area via geographical shifts. This way we could have rediscovered a beloved world with new factions arising and old ones struggling to get back what they once had (or hell ... maybe even flourishing in their new environment, cause it finally pulled them out of their hole and they had to once again strive and evolve to survive ... aka dwarfs, high elves, etc.). Could have also done the whole AoS combat system this way. (+ way it's released -> battle tomes, generals handbook, etc.). Funnily enough this way the combat system would actually make more sense. In AoS battles are significantly larger lore-wise but feel so much smaller than fantasy. With a soft reset on the warhammer world it would make sense that most factions are weaker than they once were.

[@johnoneill3654]

Describes it perfectly 👍

[@kavky]

@@theStamax Your comment made me remember about Wow Cataclysm destroying/reshaping the classic map of Azeroth and me rapidly losing interest in it.

[@theStamax]

@@kavky Oh for sure. Wasn't the biggest fan of cata either. Don't think it's an appropriate analogy though, simply because the entire playstyle in my example would still shift to the system used in AoS. Cata was the same game, with a different colour of paint.

[@kavky]

@@theStamax Yeah but the way they reworked the talent trees drastically changed play styles for everyone that wasn't strictly a dps.

[@thecrzyirishman]

When high fantasy means the elite human warriors look like fuckin space marines rather than Knights, my interest dies immediately.

[@Mortenhendriksen]

Never understood why people liked the age of sigma models. Most of them is either boring or totally over the top. Nothing really fits each other.

[@cody1570]

They got rid of a lore rich world that has a shit ton of everything and even a map. Then all a sudden lizard men had ships the whole time and the slaan made all the lizardmen up? That the game itself isnt up to par.

[@dinocha0s]

Or ya know they could just create a parallel universe like how comics like to use their 'multiverse' to experiment with different scenarios in 'what if' situations. You literally kill 2 birds with one stone if GW did this to begin with, 1. not piss off old fans 2. u get to keep both universes without much headache

[@acousticoutlaw8607]

Git Gud then you have the issue of splitting the fantasy player base and they won’t sell as much for either.

[@zenoblues7787]

@@acousticoutlaw8607 but their trying to do that right now with Warhammer the Old World

[@acousticoutlaw8607]

Zeno Blues I think it’s going to be similar to Horus heresy

[@dilophosaurussk4333]

@Вхламинго Have you considered why people did not want to play WHFB?

[@muffinman2546]

Ah, yes. The cheap-ass "multiverse" setting. Right alongside "Quantum physics" in movies trying to explain high tech science/phenomenons and the "it was just a prank, bro" when someone gets killed in a thriller movie for edgy, emotionally insecure teens. When, oh when, will this old shit die out already? WH40K wasn't built on the foundations of any cheapskate cliches other than whatever games GW had touched. They even went back in time with the 'Total War' series of WH40K games which is a cheap move for when the well's been dried up. - Nah. GW tends to fuck up WH40K in general. In terms of gameplay and in story. Our only hope is that another better company could take the ip from them & make better WH40K games/settings.

[@StevetheWizard2591]

One thing you forgot to mention: Slaanesh is back in Age of Sigmar. He/She/They/It might still be bound, but that's only because he's/she's/they're/it's into bondage. You're free to use Slaaneshi daemons if you want to. And you can play them in Age of Sigmar, too.

[@tobiasboh3370]

Indeed they may soon play an important role, as new lore has been hinting at something being wrong at the "prison". I'm pretty stoked for that!

[@gudboah4688]

Sigvald’s back too! This time he’s ascended into a F A B U L O U S daemon prince.

[@bubbasbigblast8563]

The biggest problem with Age of Sigmar is that there's no strategic map, so to speak: no chokepoints, no strategic resources, and thus no logical source of conflicts. With a good map, you can glance at it and immediately tell why certain areas are important, which helps to make conflicts that much more believable. Let's take Ulthuan for example: at a glance, you can immediately see why the Phoenix Gate would be vulnerable to Chaos and Dark Elves, as it's close to both, and the land beyond it is too poor for civilization to build large, well defended cities. Lothern is the opposite, being an obvious stronghold because of how hard it is to reach, and how easily it could be reinforced. Yvresse is hard to reach, but also hard to reinforce, so you can see why the people there would be more independent-minded than the rest of the High Elves; meanwhile, Avelorn is so fertile and well-protected that it's easy to see why it would be among the most prosperous areas. Age of Sigmar, meanwhile, just has a confusing mess of gates and Skaven that make it seem like any realm could be attacked from any point at any time, by anyone. It's confusing, and makes it completely impossible to judge what the people of each realm should be like at a glance.

[@Neothunder240]

Have you tried looking at the actual maps?

[@nathancarignan8074]

Did you see any of the maps? Gives a good picture of choke points, vulnerabilities, etc

[@albinhermansson5771]

There are maps yes, even good ones, but due to the scope (multiple near endless realms, with a few teleporting gates sprinkled around, it makes it too abstract and hard to draw conclusions from. However, this was the trade off gw did to make it so that any faction could reasonsble fight any other without breaking lore or doing weird asspulls

[@vanivanov9571]

We have gods in angel-armour fighting against cavemen and dwarves with metal airships... any sense of immersion, strategy or tactics was impossible from the get-go. They didn't even try to establish a Dragon Ball Z kind of concept of power... so it makes about as much sense as a child having his DBZ figurines, Transformers, GI Joes, and teddy bear have a fair fight.

[@bubbasbigblast8563]

​@@Neothunder240 Obviously, and they show exactly the point I made: the realm map is literally 8 circles pointing to each-other and the Citadel of the Everchosen. Ok, the Citadel of the Everchosen is important, but it tells us *nothing* about every other realm, like why someone would want that particular realm in the first place. There's no way to build a story from that, and it tells us nothing at glance. The Realm Maps are little better: take the Realm of Life. We can presume the people there want to defend the gates, but we have no way of knowing how valuable each gate is, and why. For example, if you can only hold *one* gate, which would be the one? The one south of the capital? North? The one in the west, because it's the only one on the entire continent there? If I can only choose one Empire city though, I can make some decent immediate guesses: Altdorf has rivers and mountains covering green land, so it's a smart place to focus a defense. Middenheim and Nuln might be easier to defend for the cities themselves, since they're closer to mountains, but they also have less overall strategic worth. The eastern cities can be written off, because they're more exposed and have no other clear advantages. The Realm of Aqshy though? No fucking clue: all the gates are in the east for some reason, and there's apparently no particularly fertile land, or useful rivers, or mines. If someone wants to have any idea what's valuable, the map would be the last place to look, as its only use is looking at where the gates are.

[@Captain_Ironbeard]

Would be funny as hell to read the first pages of your book only to recognize your part instantly. "There was a normal, not relevant man who one day decided that the old world was one big pair of cheeks that needed to be clapped. That's right, it's Sigmar!"

[@HandlesAreStupid2024]

Age of Sigmar was a way for GW to rebrand an entire line because they couldn't beat down people in court over licensing "dwarves, elves, men, etc" They wanted to trademark literally everything. This is also why we got "Primaris", because they couldn't win rights on "Space Marine".

[@aaronlaughter6471]

Ironic, that a company who stole so much from other people, got butt hurt so badly that they tried to sue other people for ripping them off.

[@juliovictormanuelschaeffer8370]

My main complaints about AOS: - The ending of The End Times itself: what would be the point of following the storyline if you know Chaos would eventually win and a new life cycle will begin? - The Stormcast Ethereals are pretty much Sigmar Space Marines.

[@juliovictormanuelschaeffer8370]

@The Martial Lord of Loyalty I said that as a joke.

[@dudewatches6125]

THOU DAREST TO COMPARE YON SPACE MARINES TO MINE LAND MARINES?! Oh the nerve! The shame of it! One might as well compare vampyres to Werewolves! Or Spyderman to the Batman! Or Superman to Shazam! Nothing alike! /s

[@Matthew-3939]

Constantinos CHRISTODOULAKIS Maybe Sigmar is one of the two lost primarchs and Sigmarines are his Legion which haven’t discovered bolters yet.

[@Ake-TL]

The Martial Lord of Loyalty well, there’s some that are very hardcore about rules, Iron warriors level hardcore about the rules.

[@Marinealver]

Sigmar is one of two lost primarchs

[@markwildman5263]

I play 40k and aos competitively. Re: aos game play the “double turn” mechanic is the best thing about aos. Managing the double turn is massively tactical and huge part of the game.

[@mogwaiman6048]

Yup, fuck that "you go I go" shit.

[@JM.....]

This. Its almost like LotR players have been using this dynamic and gambit rewarding turn structure since MESBG's inception... oh wait, they have

[@markwildman5263]

I solidly played a Khorne /Archaon lists for about 18 months. I built my lists specifically to manage the double turn, assuming I got “double turned”, my army was designed to be able to manage it. (By having 2 solid layers troops protecting archoan and a blood thirster). Because of that it was hard to just “blitz” into my lines full well knowing, even if they got the double archoan would counter bunch and smash face (which in the khorne book he really can)

[@TheToxicP]

I like the double turn as well, but I love the alternating melee combat (regardless of charges). That's the one thing I wish 40k had, instead of all charges going first.

[@aerka0s760]

@@markwildman5263 What list are you playing friend? Could you share it with us? I'm playing Khorne too, and I'm always happy to see new lists and discuss about choices of unit.

[@lolwutyoumad]

People hate age of shitmar because it represents corporate greed gone wrong, GW canceled fantasy universe after they couldn't trademark common terms like "elves" and "dwarves" so they completely speged out and ended fantasy universe

[@betchersgland7236]

Corporate greed can go right?

[@Awesomeisme7000]

@@betchersgland7236 to be fair if a corporation does anything it is for greed, doesn't always make action wrong just intent never pure.

[@gabrielbrando9439]

Based

[@betchersgland7236]

@@Awesomeisme7000 yeah..."just" intent. Honestly, it kinda scares me how little regard people have for intent lately, it's all about result for some reason, as if we're fucking robots. P.S. Not fucking with you specifically about it. Your wording just nudged a thought.

[@derljackson5365]

@@betchersgland7236 yes honey producers are an example of an cooperation wanting honey(money) and also helping local ecosystem

[@arcburn6340]

I really enjoyed Mordheim: City of the Damned. That was the game that sparked my interest.

[@dylanlewis5113]

I got into Fantasy through Total War Warhammer. My favorite faction is Bretonnia. I love the lore and all the Arthurian influences. I prefer the version where anyone can become a Knight, as long as they can accomplish their quest. Town needs something done, they put out a call. Person answers, get outfitted with whatever the town can spare, goes and does the thing. Person is now recognized as a Knight and is the Lord of the town. You're a Knight based on accomplishment, not on birth. If a Knight's son fails their quest, then they aren't a Knight.

[@trevorwoolson3860]

Anyone becoming a knight sorrve ignores brettonians entire system. I belive only 3 peasants were ever raised to nobility, but their children don’t gain the rank of noble. Brettonia got more “grim dark” too much in their later years. Although I love how backwards they are, old lore has the nobles actually…noble to their peasants.

[@josephaulisio9281]

Dude. Its a fckn video game. Get lost.

[@amwoodco3049]

So, as someone who played fantasy from 4th to 8th edition, the reason I didn't like AOS is that they took my game of units in formation and said, "Nope, everything is overly simplified 40k rules... but it's fantasy models." My response was, "If you want me to play 40k with fantasy models, I may as well play 40k with actual tanks." I'm now a general of the Astra Militarum armoured core. Besides, I think most of my fantasy tactics are not even close to valid in AOS.

[@Dan-zc3ou]

"but to where are the age of sigmar videos i hear nobody ask" 10 seconds in and i'm already dead. Also i hit a 3 out of 3 on that check list and i'm quite interested in buying what is essentialy a fanfiction. The problem, i think, with warhammer fantasy and AoS is that Fantasy never was Grimdark in the first place; It was Grim at times, and it fell under the Dark fantasy genre in part, but it never was "GrimDark" as we intend it like with 40k, so AoS pretty much is trying to fill something already filled

[@IronFreakV]

That's true, "grimdark" was always the tagline for 40k specifically. It was still pretty darn dark at times but overall it was probably a more optimistic setting than 40k

[@PauloGarcia-sp5ws]

Indeed. Never really got that feeling from Fantasy, felt it was Dark, low fantasy, but definitely not Grimdark.

[@NRSGuardian]

Agreed. The major difference between Fantasy and AOS, setting-wise is that Fantasy is low fantasy, and AOS is high fantasy.

[@elric7415]

Exactly; I always felt that it was 40k that should handle all the grimdarkness of course fantasy could have some darkness, but to me it had to be the lighter tone compared to 40k. It’s like a spectrum 40k is the dark and AOS is the light with fantasy somewhere in between.

[@tex4096]

@@elric7415 I fail to see how AoS is any brighter that Fantasy. The majority of the worlds are slaves to chaos and the every day life for the people is spent trying too not die horribly.

[@theStamax]

I've recently bought some AoS troops and played with my friend (Sylvaneth). The models are definitely top-notch and I even enjoyed reading through some of the lore. As a big Warhammer fantasy fan I was certainly more on the dislike side towards AoS at the very start (it was poorly managed as well with a lack of clear rules, lack of anything resembling a good story, etc.), but I'm now somewhat more positive towards the system and lore. There are still points I'm probably never gonna be able to accept/support such as (just to say a few): -While the lore has gotten better, it has lost all it's personality. It's now all major-scale war across near-infinite planes of existance. Yes, that allows for basically anything to happen (giving a blank slate to new books, expansions, etc), but also made the system lose near-all personality and ... well ... stakes. Warhammer Fantasy was a great world, where things felt very real, because you knew the places that existed very well. It was a big deal when a single great city of the empire fell for example (like Nuln). AoS reads like "countless great cities fell during this time ..." without any emotional attachment. -Sigmarines. Just no. They are such a knock-off of space marines they just shouldn't exist in a fantasy setting. They are not even trying to make it seem different with some of their titles being word for word knock-offs of warhammer 40k titles (lord castellan? bruh). Mind you, I really like space marines. Humanity was one of the most interesting factions/races in warhammer fantasy. Be it the knights of bretonnia or the empire itself. Especially the latter. Everything that stood between them and destruction by chaos, greenskins, skaven, etc. was regular men that had to rely on faith and discipline to ever have a chance for seeing tomorrow. Yet they still had their elite troops as well, that could very well take out an ogre or troll. They were never as shit and/or plentiful as the imperial army in warhammer 40k, that has basically infinite soldiers to just wear enemies down. Sigmarines are just overpowered demi-god, space marine knock offs with barely any personality to speak of. Brings me back to the first point ... I don't feel any stakes when they are involved. Aside from these two points (especially the first one existing essentially across the board) it's mostly fine. I just don't see why they had to burn down the old world for it. They could have just given it a semi-hard reset. Keep the old world, new game system (as AoS). New factions arise, large parts of the world are as of yet undiscovered, but many parts still intact. This would have made for a much better overall story and given the option for big reveals in future expansions ("Holy cow, did you hear? The new faction coming out has their capital in Nuln!" -> "What? No way. I was certain it was destroyed or lost in the ocean"). I think a big mistake was assuming the low numbers were related to the setting and characters, instead of the lack of life support and clumsiness of the system.

[@theStamax]

@Chaos Lord Craig _ no, why would I if I was not interested in them in the first place? I don't doubt there are good stories about them, but a good writer can turn almost any part of any setting into a good story. Doesn't mean the basic idea behind a certain faction isn't bad (at least from where I stand Stormcast Eternals are a terrible idea for a fantasy setting).

[@leonardhollsten8145]

@@theStamax It sounds like outside of thinking they are "Fantasy Marines" you have essentially no information about them at all.

[@theStamax]

@@leonardhollsten8145 Well yes. I saw them, heard their name and that was it for me. The tidbits I read from other lore just made it worse ...and yes ... they ARE fantasy space marines (well technically worse, cause the space marines are actually pretty awesome). If that doesn't bother you, that's great. Sure bothers the hell out of me though.

[@tobiasboh3370]

I'd argue they are not comparable to space marines. They are divine beings, not through the perception people have of them, but because they literally are given a part of sigmars power. If anything in 40k compares to them, it is imperial saints like Celestine. She was a mortal hero chosen by the emperor (or however imperial daemonhood actually happens, I hope we'll never know that for certain) to fill a much larger role. They have the shadow of a real person that lived an entire life (unlike space marines, who never get to live out the non-augmented version of that life), but now only struggle to hold on to that memory. I get not being fond of their admittedly very space marine-like model line, but they are definitely not fantasy space marines with the role they fill in the setting.

[@Giagantus]

Sigmarines make sense though.Chaos empowered their warriors for eons it just makes sense for others to do them same. To literally learn from the enemy.

[@dagothhyde7297]

I spent 150 bucks on models alone thinking I was gonna get into warhammer and start a tomb kings army... 3 weeks before they were discontinued

[@davidbengtsson4964]

An important thing to note is that AoS player hate Sigmarines as much as 40K player hate primaris

[@usonumabeach300]

Non-tabletop playing lore-nerd here. Loved WHF. AoS is like Flash Gordon meets He-Man with a sprinkle of the weirder parts of Heavy Metal. WH40k is now my home since WHF died. Still love me some FR tho.

[@FitnessTips4Ux]

You can’t just completely annihilate the world of Gotrek and Felix and replace it with mace wielding space marines. It’s just not a cool move bro

[@skeith1543]

I feel like this is an incredibly well reasoned looked at AoS and Fantasy and why it was reviled at the beginning. Thank you for making this video.

[@TheShubLub]

"All those years ago" > 2 years

[@carter342000]

Step one of Majorkill's master plan to get back in GW's good books complete

[@AltamaLFG]

Sellout

[@GPlewright]

They took a big dump on loyal fans that had followed the game rules from version to version, forking out piles of cash with every new edition only to have an edition that trashed the rules and the armies completely... I got out before this happened but I was shocked by the move.

[@ActionMan1979]

Two consecutive turns is not only illogical, is Heresy.

[@UltimatePowa]

Sorry, but I play fantasy to be in a Medieval like setting with mystical aspects, not in a multiverse space-like game. Might as well just play 40k.

[@TheVigilante2000]

This is why AoS is hated by most Fantasy Fans: 1) Shat on the Setting 2) Shat on our Army Collections 3) Shat on the Game System (no comp, not compatible, lots of reasons) Worst of all is the knowledge that it will happen to you someday!

[@BMJYDK]

3 months on this is how I feel about the game, but for me the absolute kicker is that the game is just not balanced or written well from a ruleset, the power creep is incredibly high, the yearly generals handbooks change very little in terms of what is meta and I don't think GW know how to actively fix their rules etc so players can be rewarded for playing each faction based on their rules, this is incredibly prominent with the aos equivalent of objective secured.

[@ragefacile4832]

@BeeF and also how you play, really. i prefered to play regiments with nicely ordered block and moving them "realistically" instead of a warhammer 40k light

[@quantum_ogre]

The Grimdark of old Warhammer Fantasy set it apart from a lot of other Fantasy Settings, especially back before the 2010s where they became a little more popular. I'm happy for folks who enjoy AoS, and I'm sure there is some gritty new lore in there that is great. Still, on its surface it just looks way too colorful and extremely high-fantasy, and we already have that in spades.

[@RocRolDis]

*coughCONANcough*

[@ThatPianoNoob]

@@RocRolDis I'm too bored to mention all the high fantasy examples. Yes there are grimdark settings but don't pretend it isn't a niche.

[@petrasbirthdaygoblinhoney4565]

@@arcahmwinters70 eh, you’re kinda overstating the lightness setting it apart imo. One of the most popular fantasy author’s within the last 30 years is a man who is super averse to grim dark settings (Brandon Sanderson) and while he’ll contain some dark stuff in his settings, never approaches anywhere near real grimdark stuff. There’s plenty of light hearted stuff out there, it’s just a lot of its not been adapted for TV or movies so people who aren’t heavy readers seem to miss it

[@user-gn6wz9fe1c]

with all the magic colour realms and magic gates it just magic the gathering with 40k models

[@zephyrstrife4668]

I'll be honest... I never was invested in WHFB. As much as I liked the idea of having a bunch of minis set up in those marching lines and going at each other using trays to move them as if it were a real-scale battle... I neither had the funds or the time to get into it. After buying the Age of Sigmar core book I found myself reading up on the end times and the subsequent resurgence of good-aligned factions as someone who had never been attached to the old game. I legitimately liked the Seraphon, the fact that the Stormcast Eternals can get mounted cavalry on things that look almost like dragons was epic, being able to set up terrain and attribute different bonuses to the terrain based on what plane of existence the armies were fighting on is such a cool bit of extra environmental effect. The Open-Play setup where you just go at each other with your full armies can be unbalanced in some cases while in others it can tell a story of defenders winning against impossible odds or attackers assaulting an impregnable fortress, etc... TL:DR Since I was never attached to WHFB I was able to enjoy Age of Sigmar without any bias.

[@Franangrsheim]

So many realms yet it feels small. The old world feels vast and epic. AOS is just trying to get too big for its penis.

[@arcadecity.]

Since warhammer fantasy died i never gave a single penny to GW simple as that

[@nate742]

HeyWoah is a good channel to get acquainted with AoS, with faction videos, army compositions, and an intro to AoS video. I will say a few things about the Double Turn mechanic. I agree that it can be quite a frustration at times, as I myself have been at the receiving end of it more than once. However, there are two things I'd like to bring up about it. 1. The randomness brought on by it is sort of a double edged sword. On one hand, it can be seen as taking away from the skill and strategy aspects of the game. However, it can also use that unpredictability to add a new rhythm to games. It can either be the nail in the coffin to an already one sided match, or a dramatic last minute turn around. With WHFB, sometimes there were those matches that were so painfully one sided due to superior strategy, or more often than not better positioning or army composition or unbalanced rules, that would just devolve into a steamroller by turn 2. In AoS, such a scenario is actually not as common, since tabling an opponent is often not the priority over objectives. 2. Despite the random roll off, the double turn can be deceptively impactful for certain players. There is actually some play involved in the turn roll off, as certain factions, characters or abilities can actually affect the roll off to either exploit or mitigate its effects. Personally, I actually think GW should slightly expand the mechanics of the double turn and make it a bit of an uncertain gamble between the players. It's between pressing the advantage or turning the tide, and adding a dimension there could be intriguing.

[@lastbaumstanding1802]

I personally dont like randomnes, especially not in competetive games. IMHO they should roll out even before the game starts when the parties take their turns and write a list. You still get those doubleturn, but now you can play around that way better. Or give every unit an initiative/speed/whatever value and add a D6 to that. So you still have randomnes, but you can plan better around it.

[@drakor98]

Baum Russ That sounds like a pretty good idea tbh.

[@lastbaumstanding1802]

@@drakor98 It is basically a standard TTRPG Initiative System. I hate them in TTRPGs, but for comp. wargaming it is very good

[@firebirdchild975]

Hey thanks, I came into the Hobby a few months ago and while I have had a blast learning the 40K lord I was confused about why sigma lore was less plentiful so knowing a channel that's good for it helps

[@CantusTropus]

As someone who liked Old Warhammer, I've tried to get over the End Times and give AoS a chance. While many of the new models do look cool, there's one area they always lose my interest: the names. Names matter, and names with roots in history or mythology have extra traction. The "High Elves" immediately conjures images in your head of what the faction is and does, "Lumineth Lightlords" does not. "Dwarves" means something to someone who knows nothing about the lore, "Kharadron Overlords" does not. Maybe those factions are cool - I don't know, because they never managed to draw my attention.

[@christopheredenton7580]

9:43-give me back my knights and mummys, those where the 2 fantasy army’s I played!

[@dilophosaurussk4333]

I mean you could still use a decent number of Bretonnia models for Free Cities (Specifically the not-Empire subfaction). But you are kinda fucked if you want to play at tournaments and such.

[@ragefacile4832]

@@dilophosaurussk4333 i can't speak for denton, but really , i have no interest in playing the models as something else, i'm a lady's knight, not a free city scum ! i want all the nice things i had before, play second and have the benediction of the lady, the lance formations and so on. I was slowly building up points for the army but it got squatted right before i got a size decent enough to play them (i was a student and barely got any money)

[@sclarke6969]

Realistically it was blatantly obvious they just went full corporate "lets delete everything to trade mark everything". End times was trash. AoS lore was terrible. Rules were....a joke. Army was invalid and the game was so dissimilar that anyone who enjoyed fantasy gameplay was almost guaranteed to dislike it. The initial backlash was justified on almost ever front except models (but again on that front the bastardisation of old characters wasn't always welcome). As its own thing AoS is now fine. There were a myriad of better ways they could have implement it.

[@skywatcheradept]

I think AoS is worse than it was at the start. It was bad when it introduced Space Marines to fantasy (Stormcast Eternals), now it pushes Battle Cattle (Lumineth) forth.

[@mogwaiman6048]

@@skywatcheradept you're out of your fucking mind if you think 2nd edition AoS is inferior to the firsf edition.

[@zpascual6869]

@@skywatcheradept whats wrong with elves using hammers and bulls. I don't get why people insist on them being lazy and using elegant blades and pheonix

[@skywatcheradept]

@@zpascual6869 It's about decorum. For example sneaky ninja Dwarfs wood look just as bad as Elves with bulls and hammers. @Mogwai Man I thought it was obvious I'm refering to the aesthetics of new wave of models, not 1st or 2nd edition rules.

[@skywatcheradept]

I said something bad about AoS, now I will say something good. GW has proven with Gloomspite Gitz or Hedonites of Slaanesh etc. that it can do great Warhammer Fantasy miniatures if they wish to. All these mew models sit very well with the Old World lore and aesthetic. My point is: GW should continue to do Fantasy models like these instead of perverting the Elves, Dwarfs or Undead with their abominations.

[@imperialbriton3160]

Main reason i don’t like age of Sigmar is I played dwarfs... And now after they’ve removed all the dwarf units which they hadn’t updated since 2005, leaving only the end times miniatures - I’m stuck between crappy looking steampunk dwarfs, or slayers. And while I like slayers, there is absolutely no range in models whatsoever. No artillery, no dedicated ranged units, only steampunk airships, slayers and a couple of ludicrously expensive holdovers from the end times (note I live in Australia).

[@lilporky8565]

I think the steampunk Dwarves are a fantastic idea, but it's not worth it if it means doing away with the traditional Dwarves.

[@imperialbriton3160]

I agree, mainly it’s my dislike of the discontinustion of all my favourite units. Thankfully I haven’t assembled most of them yet so I’m still able to recast

[@imperialbriton3160]

Вхламинго true, but there’s no pre 8th dawi, especially no ranges units. I’d be fine if there was no warriors (unhappy, but not furious), but there’s no rangers/quarrelers/thunderers, artillery. Even if they’d kept the fine cast re releases of the grudge and bolt throwers, I’d be quasi content. But yeah, at this point I think they got rid of them because it was eating into their AOS range. Also I agree the Duardin look terrible

[@imperialbriton3160]

Вхламинго no denying that mate, I hated resin it was fragile, and nigh impossible to assemble and paint. even homebrew is better. just sad that they kept the elf and empire lined up, while scrapping the dwarfs. Hopefully they’ll revive them when they bring back WF next year, though I’d prefer a more traditional range than their current trajectory

[@rastlonadjalin9455]

Dont ask why hate AoS, Ask why not hate AoS

[@magnificusdominusduxchad4229]

Fans : no u cant destroy are favorite universe Gamesworkshop : haha space marine go medieval

[@michaeljenner2325]

It was more. Fans: We don’t care about fantasy because all be talk about is 40K. GW: Oh well okay I guess we’ll have to reinvent the fantasy side of Warhammer since it’s really not selling. Fans: Why did you do that everyone loved Warhammer fantasy.

[@derrickhaggard]

@@michaeljenner2325 Hit the nail on the head.

[@Zalmoksis44]

There are two things: lore and rules. AoS may have good rules, I have no idea. But lore-wise it's some frankenstein. And there are people who invested a lot into WHFB or just WHRPG. And then GW decided it would be fun to butcher the Old World and they are surprised the fans dare to disagree.

[@gabrielmirandahurtado6539]

3:13 can I get a source for that image? Fro research, of course

[@Spenglenoodle]

Its definitely headed in the right direction, they need to do something with the shard of mallus and the bad moon and bring some characters back, properly and not as stormcast or floating armour, Skarsnik is literally orbiting the bad moon and Gelt has amnesia, if Eltharion can come back as armour I demand Grom returns, can't keep a good Gut down. Also any faction with unresolved End Times plot should return as a full faction, I.E Settra, Gilles/Aborrash maybe even Cathay's emperor since he fucked off nowhere

[@Cavalier1645]

Honestly I don't have if they flush it out better now cause the game mechanic still sucks and setting is still garbage to me.

[@____________838]

The correct answer is it’s not grimdark fantasy. It’s some eclectic high fantasy reskin of 40k.

[@Ludonauta]

- Old Fantasy neckbeards: "fu Games Workshop! Why did you kill WHFB?!" - Also old Fantasy neckbeards: *stopped buying WHFB models in 2005*

[@ungface]

"why didnt GW just release a new edition of WHFB when chaos black sold more then the entire range?"

[@Frankenmuppet]

Holy fucking shitballs!!! You literally used a picture of my very own kitbashed Slam Captain!!! Like.... Mine?!? I am beyond honoured

[@anthonymartinelli9293]

From my experience with Age of Sigmar, it was a rough and felt rushed game from the start, but in the second edition the game feels more flushed out. Playing the game in local tournaments and reading the rule books gave me a different experience form Warhammer 40k to witch i enjoy, but i can understand how other feel the opposite. adding the endless spell and the soul war arc made it seems GW is putting effort into this game.

[@Ghostavelfantasma]

I was about to light a J, excellent timing

[@santiagosilva2528]

Major kill does not aprove of weed unfortunately.

[@majorkill]

A man of culture

[@santiagosilva2528]

Goldmegaman1000 no he said on stream he doesn’t really smoke this was a couple months ago so his vier might have changed

[@dudewatches6125]

Pass dat shite!

[@MDMDMDMDMDMDMDMDMD]

WEED BRO! I'm glad you told us! Wubalubadubdub!

[@rupertcortes3980]

The clean version of Warhammer Universe. Warhammer fantasy, 40k, and now AoS.

[@SerKawlin]

I don't hate it, I just know nothing about it because Everytime I ask they screech ITS HORRIBLE so I'm ignorant because of a "hurt" fan

[@horuslupercal392]

I simply don't like the Aesthetic of Age of Sigmar or any of the characters in the lore. So I can't really get behind it at all.

[@humann5682]

Same. It just looks and feels like a fucking 40k expansion rather than a bonafide fantasy game. Woulduch rather play Hordes or KoW right now.

[@derekfrost7751]

I was sesrching for the new age of sigmar lore and its pretty good, they actually move the story foward with big decisions, instead of being freeze in time like in fantasy

[@ValeTheOwl]

Yeah, they did... and still, the status quo of the game didn't change at all. That's the advantage of having a HUGE and INDEFINITE setting: any "change" or "forward movement" in the story is ultimately meaningless in the grand scheme of things. Like in WH40K, the scale of the universe makes it so that no victory or defeat has any impact on the game.

[@derekfrost7751]

@@ValeTheOwl at least they have a win or defeat, in fantasy one move provoked end times

[@ValeTheOwl]

@@derekfrost7751 Wrong. They actually had various campaigns that advanced the plot (like the Albion campaign). The End Times was ENTIRELY intentional and pretty much a huge middle finger to the playerbase. Literally, since they had decided to advance the plot based on the result of a campaign (Order vs Chaos), but when that campaign ended in the Order's overwhelming victory, they took their word back and decided to end the world instead because at the time their writers were no able to write about an Order victory.

[@derekfrost7751]

@@ValeTheOwl and what important thing happen in albion?

[@ValeTheOwl]

@@derekfrost7751 The Albion campaign was focused on the fact that the whole island is basically the "lock" to Be'lakor prison, as well as a place of power similar to the Vortex in Ulthuan. Basically a battle royale of all races happened for the control of the island, with Be'lakor manipulating the forces of Chaos and the Truthsayers seeking help from the forces of Order. In the end, the forces of Order managed to win, with the Lizardmen occupying the island, restoring the protective mists and even founding a new temple city (Konquata), the FIRST new Temple City that has been founded ever since the fall of the Old Ones.

[@AltamaLFG]

The fantasy world was so much more interesting and full of character. Turning the end times into age of Sigmar makes it seem like the entire struggle that the factions had during the fantasy setting didn't matter at all. It cheapens the story if you just get resurrected and immortalized just for cash grabbing a new set of miniatures.

[@mogwaiman6048]

How? It was the same narrow narrative for decades. It was just Earth 2.0

[@balazra]

If I want a strategy game I’ll play a non GW game. If I want to play a Sci-fi I’ll play 40K. If I want to play fantasy I’ll play... 9th Ed. If I want to play a quick fun game I’ll play warcry. If I want to play competitively I’ll play infinity.

[@Outside85]

Seeing this and I can see so many parallels in the mistakes GW made and the mistakes DC Comics made back in 2011 with their New 52 relaunch: -Bad send off of the established setting (Thanks Barry) -Immediate confusion on launch about how much old stuff survived into the new setting (Largely dictated by who had good sales at that time aka Batman and Green Lantern) -Old characters behaving oddly if they weren't completely rewritten (Being a douche was suddenly cool, making Wonder Woman a murderous douche was even more so) -Certain otherwise central themes being sealed off and VERBOTEN (Like characters being married or having kids, even more than one sidekick was an issue) -Redesigns in costumes made everyone look like they had the same taylor (Same collar and suit of armor-like outfits for everyone) -General sense of the grand scheme having not been thought out properly (They put a lot of story-boats in the water in the beginning, none of them really made it once reality started pecking away ) -Company edicts that the new stuff is the lot, so shut up and eat it (And later having to climb down from that tree and go back to the old stuff) On a sidenote, I kinda like the models for AoS, but only really as a kind of standalone figure you keep in a cabinet. But the WH40K-style unit setup... yeah no, Warhammer is supposed to be medieval style fantasy with blocks of infantry and cavalry, not a wild skirmish. Warhammer is the 300 Spartans, AoS is the idiot Persians running into the shieldwall.

[@six2make4]

They went from Dark Fantasy to Cosmic Fantasy with knock-off spacemarines that respawn.

[@jacktomas1596]

I'm not angry at AoS. I'm mad at games workshop. I cant really distill my feelings about this. I get they wanted to appeal wider audiences and do with a fresh start with the lore and avoid all the issues with WHFB lore (can you name all the gods? And yes I do mean all of them). At the same time however they took a massive shit on it though. They took something unique and stripped out all the uniqueness out and demanded that accept it. That what it felt like to me.

[@mogwaiman6048]

But it wasn't unique. Even the world map was fake Earth.

[@jacktomas1596]

@@mogwaiman6048 at the time WHFB was pretty unique. They used a "not earth" to make it more digestible. Hell they were the first ones to depict orcs as green. Prior to that they were just "brutish" and gray (with exception to the pale orc).

[@mogwaiman6048]

@@jacktomas1596 Tolkien artist Tim Kirk had green Orcs in 1975. GW did not invent green Orcs. There are even D&D sources prior to 1983 that have green Orcs.

[@theStamax]

@@mogwaiman6048 so? what makes a world unique isn't the world map, it's the stories you fill them with. Stories and factions in WHF had stakes, because you knew the players involved, the strategic locations and why conflict existed. I have more emotional attachments to single cities in WHF (without reading any books btw ... just from the feeling the army books set up) than I have to whole realms in AoS. They basically replaced a personal, complex world with an impersonal infinite world where conflict can happen anywhere, anytime because xyz-faction teleports in and wants to destroy city 4836. I don't think WHF shouldn't have been changed mind you. I just wish they would have been less final about it. Keep the endtimes (well ... preferably better written) and even the AoS game system, but also the factions and parts of the old world. Major geographic shifts, new conflicts, changing allegiances, etc. Could have opened up the setting for new things and factions and let us rediscover a setting we love with a fresh coat of paint. But what we got instead was what I described above.

[@mogwaiman6048]

@@theStamax There were no stakes in WHFB, we literally played the same narrative for close to 30 years. AoS is also only 5 years old.

[@jdim4628]

I had just finally finished a 2000 point army for Fantasy when Age of Sigmar was announced. Shallow rules and lore invalidating all of the work I just did permanently turned me off AoS. Hope the old world stuff they announced doesn’t give it the same treatment

[@samduncombe369]

Age of Sigmar is just 40K with a slap of Warhammer Fantasy names over it. With it all the time I've invested in Warhammer fantasy it's still just feels like a slap in the face. for me personally the end times never happened.

[@davelebowski2859]

I could care less about the lore for a board game, the real crime was killing a solid literary universe

[@TreesTrees]

I like the random turns, because it makes it so you need to play more conservatively, rather than just running up the board and ignoring terrain.

[@gwell2118]

I actually wouldn't have minded the end times so much if it weren't for the very fact the Skaven pretty much did like 90% of the damage! It was supposed to be chaos finally making a bee-line for the world and what did they really do in the grand scheme of things? The Elves screwed themselves over mostly, the eastern realms were mostly taken down by Grimgore for the most part as they beat the skanven and chaos back before the orcs smashed them. Naggaroth I guess they took but that was more the Dark Elves abandoning it. Pretty much most of the actual destruction was the Skaven going SS3 on every realm that wasn't The Empire or Bretonnia. My theory is the End times writers were secret Skaven fanboys who just wanted their faction to dominate the narrative.

[@tyranitararmaldo]

Welcome to basic GW writing. It's basically a bunch of fanbois writing fanfiction at each other.

[@papaaeon7210]

I always thought it was set in the age of Sigmar. Like, an alternate universe back when Sigmar was uniting the Empire.

[@aaronlaughter6471]

That would be awesome, a Horus heresy for Warhammer fantasy.

[@ivanbenkovic610]

I mean, ending a world by destroying it, i like that, it takes balls to do, i even wanted the white walkers to win in GoT. So yea, a dark world needs a dark ending, not a cliche good guys win ending

[@Vermbraunt]

I agree that most the hate comes from the way they killed Fantasy. I recently started reading up on the lore on AoS and i quite like what they have so far, I can't wait to see where is goes now

[@derrickhaggard]

Well fans who missed Slannesh get excited as according to the current AoS lore he/she/it is getting set up to return. Basically according to the current AoS lore the seals powering the prison that holds the Chaos God/Goddess of Sex, Pleasure, and Debauchery captive is starting to weaken and Morathi the High-Oracle/leader of the Daughters of Khaine has order the anti-heroine Dark Aelf faction to start prepping for his/her/it's return and the inevitable war against him/her/it.

[@Orhan6125]

I just can't get into the setting of Age of Sigmar at all. I like it when fiction is at least somewhat grounded in reality. I want a map that makes sense geographically and have factions that have a sense of place, a sense of history, and a sense of geopolitics. When I looked at Age of Sigmar's eight near-infinite realms of nebulous existence created at the whims of literal gods I lost all interest. What is 'saving the world' if the world feels so arbitrary. In Warhammer Fantasy there is only the one world. If it falls, everything is lost, just like we have only our one Earth. The stakes are high and the wars feel tangible.

[@quantum_ogre]

I couldn't get into it, but I know there are tens of thousands who disagree and love it. But it isn't a setting or even a visual style ( for the models) that really hooks me - and I don't think we're alone in that. So many bombastic, high-fantasy franchises have sprung up in the past two decades that it just feels lost in the crowd. Hell, people are getting into Fantasy lore just off Vermintide and Total War, and AoS always gets referenced as " Oh, the game they made after this setting you like."

[@cronotekk9193]

Sigmar is a better tabletop wargame setting, fantasy was a better setting for storyshitting

[@tex4096]

Cool then take a look at some of the maps.

[@tex4096]

@Александр "I just can't get into Age of Sigmar because of [things that weren't ever true and are based entirely on rumors and misconceptions from before the game even launched]." "Besides, I can never forgive GW for killing my beloved Bretonnians, whose armybook I have never read, and models I have never actually seen in person."

[@aaronlaughter6471]

@@tex4096 I can't get into AoS because the lore is retarded and im sick of fucking Space Marines. Is that better.

[@NXDH927]

Fantasy died and AOS tried to take its place its that simple. (Also the eternals are literally space marines but fantasy and it doesn't work)

[@CorpCoral]

Other than their design stormcast arent that similar.

[@mjohns6636]

Couldn’t they have just redid the way warhammer fantasy plays and added a bunch of new awesome units instead of wiping awesome lore for a setting that makes no sense with different realms.

[@humann5682]

Exactly. Engage the community to see what they wanted to buy, not nuke the whole game system and spit out a god awful 40k expansion pack and call it a "fantasy" game.

[@aaronlaughter6471]

Congrats, your smarter then GW, how does that make you feel.

[@mjohns6636]

@@aaronlaughter6471 Angry

[@lightweightjive]

Someone tell them while their selling out that the value of models based on their lore is directly related to the health of that lore.

[@M4gl4d]

"Only seems to be improving" Well, if you start with a piece of shit, any change is an improvement.

[@RainMakeR_Workshop]

I recently returned to 40k after a decade away. Back when I used to play originally I always loved the Bretonnians because I'm into medieval history, knights and HEMA irl. Age of sigmars holds no interest for me becasue there are no proper knightly models. The models are well sculpted. But none of them scratch that "knight" itch in the way the Bretonnians did. Honestly most of the models look kinda dumb to me. They have potential, but fall short. Stormcast Eternals are close, but the crappy pauldrons, muscle chest armour and Roman Pteruges ruin them for me. The Chaos Warriors are closer to what I would want but still fall short with their oversized belts, leather boots instead of greaves, chainmail loincloths, mandatory fur cloaks and static poses.

[@nathanieleck1023]

The big problem with sigmars gameplay for me is just. How. Random. It is. There’s sooo many abilities that can be totally game changing, but only happen like, 1 in 6 times, and there’s also stuff like free summoning, which is impossible to balance, and really, there’s soo many abilities which can practically drop a nuke on your army, but only if it wounds on a 6 or something like that.

[@Warpmek]

Yes and no. Keeper of Secrets has a 6 on hit equals mortal wounds. While not realiable, it's can be fished for with re-rolls. Abilities like the Nurgle keyhole artifact are almost never taken because of how in reliable it is.

[@cronotekk9193]

What? All the unique summoning systems are all quite well balanced

[@nathanieleck1023]

Warpmek, you also have stuff like bloodthirsters, who are normally balanced, until you roll 3 6s to wound, and then 3/4 of your opponents army is gone. There’s also some weird orky stuff, and if you get lucky with the lizardmen structure oh dear fucking god can that get heinous. I like the game, I just don’t enjoy it competitively.

[@nathanieleck1023]

Cronotekk, while normally I agree, it can vary so much game to game, and some factions that like MSU just get slaughtered by armies like khorne, whereas hero hammer armies just get wrecked by slaanesh.

[@mogwaiman6048]

Uh AoS has better balance than 40k does.

[@Alizlo]

Fantasy fan for more than a decade here. I think we also have to acknowledge the short comings of fantasy setting (besides the disaster of EOT) . First is how stagnant fantasy was: the Empire was always besieged by beastmen, orcs, chaos, dark elf pirates, undead, skaven, civil wars with southern lands... and no city fell...it was even impressive the Empire could hold itself. Most of the other factions were just....there. Orcs and Chaos got Grimgor and Archaon too spice things up, but when did they did something (Mark of Chaos campaign)...it was all a dream. Second is how isolated many factions were. I had lizardmen and how do I explain a fight against ogres? Everything for us had to be: intruders in the jungle. And the same for many other factions. Third is the characters. Yes, we had thousands of characters and many were great (Malus, Settra...) but we also have to consider novels and 30 years of background. AOS is in its infancy and Nagash, Morathi, Archaon and Sigmar sound to me more interesting than they ever have. Finally, and probably is very personal, is the setting. The fantasy world is definitely tolkienesque, which although more realistic, is uninspiring sometimes. With the exception of the Chaos Realm I find that the current realms are more unique and inspiring in terms of fantasy. The orcs literally live surrounded by giant beasts that they hunt for fun, instead of just living in some open plains. Dwarfs build giant aerial steam-punk cities that fly over a tzeenchian corrupted land instead of just inhabiting mountains.... everything leaves more space for crazy things, future armies... In any case, the fantasy setting is there: the army books, novels ... can still be read and enjoyed. If AOS is not your cup of tea, is perfectly fine. But I feel regarding the fantasy setting as a masterpiece destroyed because of a kid-like AOS setting is unfair.

[@EbonFang_92]

Great touch on that, GW even did a podcast on the subject of why they ended fantasy, the story was getting stagnant and also they needed to refresh the line and get new players in.

[@JustBuyTheWaywardsRealms]

You misspelled it's not age of sigmar it's age of shitmar

[@CantusTropus]

AoS came out in a horribly broken and unplayable state, with literal meme rules for some units (getting a bonus for putting on a silly accent was a real thing, at least for the mad Elector Count). This coming on the heels of the setting being brutally murdered by End Times was the last straw. It felt like a direct insult to the fans. "Oh, you like Warhammer? Not only will we kill it, we're also going to urinate on its remains and then replace it with something worse." I don't blame anyone for being done with GW after that.

[@orpheonkatakrosmortarchoft4332]

Just saying it appears Slaanesh is coming back to AoS. In his battletome (AoS army books) it is stated that he has started to destroy the chains binding him while in Wrath of the Everchosen it is said that Archeon is also working on freeing him.

[@derrickhaggard]

Yes cause the current Daughters of Khaine Lore states they're preparing for Slaanesh coming back aka getting ready to wage a massive engagement or war against him and his forces.

[@tacoblude8208]

Warhammer fantasy: your fighting for your king who is commanding your forces directly Warhammer 40k: your fighting for your emperor but being commanded by a general or lord because he’s busy making sure you can actually leave the planet without getting demon aids Warhammer Aos: your fighting for your god who is directly commanding your forces

[@tex4096]

Hello yes Gulliman here.

[@tomtheconqerur]

The Virgin Disney Starwars Vs The Chad Age of Sigmare Disney: got rid of the beloved legends continuity with no explanation in the lore with the excuse being that "legends is trash" only to copy characters and stories from legends. The thrawn novels are the only good novels in the Disney canon and thats because the writer for them was the guy who wrote the original thrawn trilogy in legends. Wasted characters with potential like finn. The films only got worse overtime. Rey's character Reylo shippers Disney ignores criticism and label fans critical of the new trilogy as "sexist" and "racist". Doesn't bother continuing legends at all despite its huge fanbase and potential with profits. Age of Sigmare: though poorly done, atleast they explained how the old world ended and how age of sigmare was born. Though they had a rough patch the novels much like age of sigmare are improving in quality. Characters are being used in interesting ways and are not wasted to appease the Chinese. The setting and the game as a whole is rapidly improving. GOTREK'S ALIVE! No shippers. Listens to the legitimate criticism. They are bringing back Fantasy due to fan demand and ots potential profits.

[@principetnomusic]

Shipping is a healthy part of any fandom with a large female following. If more girls played Warhammer I *guarantee* there would be lots of ships. Most of them gay because the main characters are mostly male.

[@shaneegan3091]

@@principetnomusic Healthy is not a word I'd use to describe Reylos

[@Ake-TL]

How tf person whose main goal is to honourably die survives fucking apocalypse. Gotrek’s must be most bad ass character in all the warhammer settings.( I’ve googled it, apparently he didn’t get reborn, reincarnated , he just fucking survived end times)

[@principetnomusic]

@@shaneegan3091 Reylo is one of the more fucked up ships, true, but it's fairly common for people to have fucked up fantasies. Take 40k - it's all about the heroisation of tyranny and mindless hatred.

[@Marinealver]

Both are abominations, this isn't Virgin vs Chad, this is Incel vs Pedo

[@theinquisitor8112]

Alarielle was also, you know, hella cheeked up.

[@AnomalyINC]

No need to destroy the old to make something new. If they made AoS as a third universe alongside 40k and Fantasy, I don't think there would have been any drama.

[@Annatar3019]

i just can't make myself like AoS. In general im more a fantasy than scifi person but AoS embodies everything in fantasy and high fantasy that i find off-putting. I mean i like fictional universes where magical things exist and rule of cool reigns supreme but it still feels like it could be real like LoTR and Forgotten Realms. AoS is just too over the top with its fantasy for my liking. I think the aesthetics of whfb were much more attractive and i can't wait for it to be back