Why do people HATE Primaris Marines?

[@majorkill]

Look, if you still hate Primaris then my Patreon has some great material to b l o w off some steam to www.patreon.com/majorkill or ya know just buy some hectic magnets here : themagnetbaron.com/

[@isanayashiro2376]

Primaris are absolute Chads.

[@chosenofkhorne2951]

I still want more chaos love because how we can destroy the order tide

[@dudeboydudeboy-zj8kd]

eldar exodites and corsairs please. also thanks for this vid it's awesome. plus here's an idea : fixing the storm of chaos.

[@Prophetofthe8thLegion]

I welcome our Primaris brothers. There must be unity if we are to survive the coming storm.

[@Thought_Processing_]

the only real complaint I have was the idea that Cawl improved on the Emperors work. I would have written it such that the primaris were the Emperors plan but had to switch to firstborn after the primarchs got scattered, and by the time he got the primarchs back he was already halfway done with the crusade so why bother changing now. as proof weren't the raven guard Corax created after istvaan initially better than regular astartes.

[@randomcast3183]

Marine players: Why do we have new models? I don't want these new models. Eldar/Ork/Nid players: Must be nice a?

[@supremetarantulasorcerer165]

You forgot imperial guard...because their too busy crying in the corner

[@kalebb1226]

GW who?

[@DaedricFaZe]

@@supremetarantulasorcerer165 Im so old i remember when they sold 2 squads of infantry in one box... those there the days.

[@TearDownGenesis]

Eldar got the Ynarri... but that's all.

[@johndudesmen48]

Potatos

[@chromosomedcollector]

"the primaris are the coolest and bestest and strongest :)" - james workshop

[@bonefetcherbrimley7740]

Lol James Workshop

[@pcuimac]

Better, harder, faster, stronger!

[@davesmith9844]

...but less so than the Custodes

[@amneenja5720]

@@pcuimac *cries in autotune*

[@JackoBanon1]

Outgunned, outnumbered, though never outclassed!

[@zachzent8287]

Cawl in a few years: Executive order 66. Now that would be an interesting twist

[@builder969channel6]

oooooh yes that would be really cool

[@NocturneNox1]

Idk Cawl is and will always be an emperor bro

[@randomcast3183]

Execute order: Thunder Warriors 2 Electronic Boogaloo

[@Prophetofthe8thLegion]

he probably would purge the first born

[@Nerazmus]

Glory to Omnissiah. Corpse Emperor must perish

[@mrmora1673]

If Primarchs can fall, if space marines can fall, if a emperor damned sister of battle can fall. Then you know damn well a primaris can fall to chaos

[@ilikepigeons6101]

Thing is with primaris is that they're literally programmed not to fall to chaos. Primarchs have their own free wills fueled by their own dumb tendencies.

[@scoopidywhoop7484]

@@ilikepigeons6101 yeah but that’s dumb.

[@ilikepigeons6101]

@@scoopidywhoop7484 which one?

[@powerist209]

Also they are deployed in Chaos heavy areas. So it would be a rather hard sell for Chaos corruptions after seeing what they are capable of. Not that it saved one group who wanted to go rogue before being gunned down by Custodes.

[@maestreiluminati87]

@@powerist209 wait, are there any Grey Knight Primaris?

[@KageRuffian]

I love how they said "primaris are immune to all the space marine mental illnesses" and then years down the line the blood angels primaris levelled up enough to unlock the black rage and become death company in an entirely lore safe way!

[@powerist209]

I think Sanguinius tried to solve the issue…but discovered that some of the flaws may have been deliberate. Lamenters tried it but they still have Red Thirst way before Black Rage came back.

[@SamueL-td7fb]

The Primares love the G R I N D

[@JC-jo9bf]

Primaris are not "lore safe".

[@PyroBlonde7777]

@@JC-jo9bf who asked?

[@JC-jo9bf]

@@PyroBlonde7777 The original post was specifically about lore and primaris. why are you here?

[@flaviomonteiro1414]

I don't hate them... I just love the Firstborn

[@johndudesmen48]

Same

[@Anton-cc7yc]

Perfectly healthy opinion. I was wary of Primaris at first, but GW actually made them right so they kinda grow on me. Doesn’t mean I suddenly decided that the Firstborn are trash.

[@aarondunn6759]

Love the models, I just wished they said "You've asked for true scale, here you go" This would go to explaining why Death Guard were the same scale as Primaris too

[@fireborn]

The firstborn will rise agai... wait that’s a different franchise.

[@crillybafoon7730]

yeah, me too. I got into 40k in early eighth and started a primaris army. It got stale and I switched, and I realised it was because I loved firstborn. To me, they truly epitomize the adaptable, ever changing nature of marines. To put it simply, all marines are flexible. Firstborn achieve this by being decent at everything. You can bring a battle company and do decently in any game. Primaris achieve this by having so many unit choices that it just doesn't really matter. If GWs ever redoes firstborn, I'd be the first to buy them

[@timmoree3356]

To me, Primaris marines' resistance to the warp could lead them down a path similar to Fulgram. They might be so sure in their incorruptibility that they are actually more susceptible to the subtle whispers of Chaos.

[@Pass_The_Remote]

ooh, I like that.

[@megbreathe4865]

They look like a dog getting a stiffy

[@LoganSearles]

Honestly I really don’t want them to replace the first born marines I do however would like them to fight together side by side

[@linkofvev]

I just want proper sized marines, is that too much to ask? For once Chaos actually wins there.

[@anthonytanner2343]

I like First Born marines way better. It could just be nostalgia or I just prefer the smaller scale.

[@AMPMASTER10]

Rules for mixed squads would be cool.

[@stonedragon30]

First born can become primaris, so eventually all marines will be primaris.

[@davidj3841]

God just make all marines cross the rubicon so we have proper sized marines

[@nova_wr2305]

6:29 found it funny how he showed this picture when describing a “thousand dollar army” as that column of landraiders alone is about a thousand dollars

[@ryeloafbreadmen1080]

Hahaha, that picture right there is a couple college funds!

[@k-leb4671]

Didn't know plastic was so expensive.

[@MScotty90]

There's a Thunderhawk in the back, currently about 850USD from Forge World but I could've sworn that old school one in the picture was even more. I'm pretty sure it was metal, too.

[@daftpunk672]

Oh man my slight venture into keycaps doesn’t sound too bad all of a sudden

[@h8thebritish522]

Thats sad

[@emperorconstantine1.361]

I might not entirely like the Primaris, but I like the fact that it has finally got the story to progress.

[@spartanx9293]

I like their armor

[@niksterkai4303]

I love the Primaris models for one reason. The bullwark against the terror doesn't have a fucked up case of dwarfism anymore.

[@ashisunblade]

This alone is why firstborn are dead to me.

[@PandorasFolly]

Until primaris came out there has been a lot of folks kit bashing "true scale marines".

[@ashisunblade]

@@PandorasFolly I was one of them! I spent so much work cutting up firstborn and making them taller at the lower legs, thighs, and belts. And trust me, I am so very happy I don't have to do that anymore.

[@oatmeal8673]

I think the Primaris are too tall

[@marksaunders3055]

@@oatmeal8673 back at the Rouge Trader days SM were only a little taller than normal humans like about 7 foot, it is only some of the fiction that has come about since making them out to be 10 foot tall demi gods that has screwed up how people view the scale. Primaris are too tall and there is nothing in their creation to explain just why they are so much taller.

[@GreyJuggernaut]

Primaris released: Eh, seems redundant to have super super-soldiers. I don't see it being a good move. Primaris a few years later: Alrighty, Firstborn and Primaris having problems with each other and certain chapters get a proper revival. Now this is definitely better and makes sense. Let's hope this gets EVEN BETTER.

[@kenrudd6362]

you gotta point

[@HyperK7]

In a nutshell, that's the whole thing

[@sealevel5961]

Since we already have the custodies....

[@this_is_japes7409]

as someone who doesn't have the necessary context about the primaris, your comment is a better explanation than the entire video. the video actually made me lean towards disliking the primaris, despite not having an opinion previously. but now i'm back to neutral.

[@scottbruckner4653]

Can't wait wait to see some black dragon primaris grow their first horns.

[@maddlarkin]

My main issue with Primaris isn't so much them (although the ridiculous amount of gun barrels on every tank looks a bit daft) but what they represent which is GW's trend towards releasing something new and making it the 'bestest ever' it's bad lorewise as you get a mass of stories with no other purpose than to show how awesome the new character/model is and gamewise as it promotes power creep in that the newest models are always more powerful, it also leaves older ranges neglected and unsupported so you end up with weird anachronism's like Genestealer cults having better access to Imperial technology and equipment than the Imperial Guard just because the model range hasn't been updated in a while

[@mr.alpharius6409]

excellent points there mate. Didn't they recently do that with storm shields so bladeguard have better ones than termi's now?

[@sd501st5]

I still believe that the Repulsor is an in-joke about the Bradley -APC- -Tank- -Scout Vehicle- -IFV- thing

[@orrorsaness5942]

(That's what happens when you are slowly getting out of a dark age. As implied by lore things are getting better. When things get better, there is a risk of Power Creep like Real Life and really any story (Nukes? Really?). But where things get better there are things that get worse... like the quality of storytelling)

[@ScooterinAB]

We're seeing this with the new Ork changes. Orks got waaaaaaayyyyy better in order to make them more of a danger to Space Marines. Now Space Marines are going to need another change because Orks are now too good. Meanwhile, every other army is going to need major improvements, simply leading to a feedback loop of power creep.

[@maddlarkin]

@@ScooterinAB yeah I saw the leap to toughness 5, Marine players are about to find out what 5's to wound feels like... I agree with you completely, next Primaris Marine's (and only Primaris) Bolters will be getting a boast to S5 so the maths evens out, to me it lends credence to something I've suspected for a long time, that GW does little to no play testing and is basing stat lines on what models they want to sell (or play themselves) Honestly I think the company lost something fundamental when it came to balancing with Andy Chambers left, but that's an entirely conversation in itself

[@brasasdekentaro6732]

As someone who is new in this universe, i like primaris, finally the Imprerium is having some sort of a progress in technology, just now when it seems like every faction has gained a power up.

[@PinkBroBlueRope]

okay but people like me are buttmad because they directly cucked and replaced regular marines rather than just being a form of surgery to upgrade existing Astartes. It feels like these new characters with no connection to anything have just shoved their buttcheeks between the camera and normal marines. It's like DC comics adding a "Better Batman" character to batman comics that's taller, prettier, smarter, stronger and does everything better than Batman, and Batman is still just sort of there. Batman fans wouldn't appreciate this, and I'm surprised that the majority of Space Marine fans didn't feel the same way about Primaris

[@mouthyschannel2474]

@@PinkBroBlueRope Well they did the exact thing you're saying with Spider-Man - twice. Miles & Gwen are now just the modern take on the character that has fans more excited than the original, for good reason. Plus like the Spider-Man example, they regularly pay respect & include the original iteration in on the fun. You can't see Miles without Peter's direct influence, you can't see Spider-GWEN without knowing who Gwen is to the original. Also you just described the intent with every iteration of Robin?

[@PinkBroBlueRope]

@@mouthyschannel2474 there's a difference between an apprentice being trained up by a master to eventually surpass him and a character just appearing and outperforming an established one in every way right off the bat

[@mouthyschannel2474]

@@PinkBroBlueRope It's like you didn't even watch the video. It was even stated that the Primaris - the force designed to fight of Chaos more effectively - were sitting ducks compared to the veterans. One of the biggest haters of them actively kicked their asses despite being of the previous batch. The Primaris fell to the very gene seed faults they were meant to be immune to. That and they were in stasis for 10k years, they're more original Space Marines than the Marines of today's setting, they were sent there by Guilliman himself before his fall & revival. These guys were wearing beaks before many of the Space marines you'd know about now were born.

[@PinkBroBlueRope]

​@@mouthyschannel2474 Okay, what's the point you're trying to make by bringing up a few instances of firstborn btfoing primaris marines? That they're both the same? That's blatantly wrong, or else no firstborn would want the rubicon primaris. Why have an extensive and dangerous operation to end up the same? Also, yeah, primaris marines are less experienced, but if their only downside is a temporary one with a straightforward remedy then it's not much of a downside. If you like primaris that's fine but it's bizarre to claim that they're not intended to be a superior replacement to "firstborn" astartes

[@BarringtonDailey]

It's funny watching GW retcon the "flaws" back into Primaris. It's like a bad situation comedy where the protagonists can never escape the situation or the series ends.

[@awesomehpt8938]

I’d take primaris space marines over the end times. They did warhammer fantasy dirty with that.

[@theblazingcrusader6322]

Even as a chaos fan I am disappointed in the end times. It didn’t feel like a victory, just someone taking our reins form us.

[@Zanzabarchocolate]

@@theblazingcrusader6322 Chaos was looking like it was about to lose too. There was no grandiose duel between Archaon and Valten or Franz that Chaos won. It was a Vampire spazzing out and stabbing an Jewish Wizard in the back at the last second and then boom. What kind of ending is that?

[@DarkDoomguy]

Man I feel bad for Bretonnia fans too. They just got exploded by rats off-screen and that's it.

[@nicholassmith7984]

Primariis are End Times by stealth. Over thirty years of Space Marine models are going to be made obsolete once the transition is complete.

[@kennyleung9909]

I didn't mind the Endtimes too much. I just didn't like AoS.

[@normalboy2907]

Game Workshop: Hey!!! We heard you guys like Space Marines, so we put some more Space Marines in your Space Marines!!! Fans: Actually, could you maybe update some of the Xenos Factio- Games Workshop: WHAT WAS THAT?!? DID YOU SAY ULTRAMARINES!!!

[@wrestlingguy8722]

Yeah sales dictated more Primaris.

[@wrestlingguy8722]

@John C Bro, the only eldar anyone should want has dem front mammaries. (this is a joke in reference to the amount of xeno players who complain)

[@wrestlingguy8722]

@John C I know. I was joking around.

[@wrestlingguy8722]

@John C It was a joke on my part.

[@dubstepXpower]

The flashgitz episode on this was hilarious

[@wheekwarrior1406]

Like how he just glazed over how much the competitive players hate them

[@derpyboi8591]

Primaris weren't OP in 8th, that's a new thing in ninth. Whenever the meta sways all comp players will hate whichever new faction at the top

[@matteoricca2128]

@@derpyboi8591 Eldar were the top dogs for a while too

[@daimiondark1458]

I wouldnt even bother playing competitive. It isnt worth the trouble.

[@jorgejustin461]

See this entire thing could have been avoided if GW was just like, "they are just normal marines in new armor". What a novel concept.

[@Mankorra_Gomorrah]

Or have them be space marines space marines, they need to go through another injection of gene seed to become primaris, meaning 1) some of them will die or not be strong enough to even undergo the treatment and 2) they gain many of the benefits of being primaris while maintaining the personality and history of some of our favorite space marines. That being said GW needed to at least hint at something like this being done before just randomly dropping an entire new species into the lore.

[@Pyre]

@@Mankorra_Gomorrah I legitimately forgot this wasn't the plan in-lore. Like, I misremembered it as being Cawl going "Okay guys I made some improvements, here's the first batch, everybody else line up to get your new superpowers and actually-viable physiology." The latter of course being the reason Primaris couldn't just be Firstborn in new armor; OG Space Marines are built like weird teddy bears under that gear.

[@EnslaveTheWorld]

Or, you know, just said "these are how Space Marines look on the tabletop going forward", exactly like they did with Chaos Space Marines. They all got upgraded, but there wasn't some deep lore dive about how they all collectively started using a new armor pattern or evolved in any way. Primaris is shit lore.

[@harrywilson1660]

I agree wholeheartedly. And just have all new models be truescale.

[@pianospawn1]

More difficult to copyright the name “Space Marines” than “Primaris”

[@mathiaslaron3372]

Primaris be the only reason my homies the Lamenters still even here😔. I’m lovin ‘em just because of that.

[@theoverpreparerlamenters3r436]

Thank you

[@mathiaslaron3372]

@@theoverpreparerlamenters3r436 Our saviour!

[@gasmaskfacednerd5896]

@@theoverpreparerlamenters3r436 Let us hope you don't get tossed into the warp, again.

[@lukethegamingkiwi662]

Are primaris models good? Yes. Is the primaris lore bad? Also yes. Do we really need primaris? Hard to say. Is it still fun to make fun of Ultrasmurfs and Girlyman? Always. do I like primaris? Meh don't love em, don't hate em.

[@zacharygerken4387]

Here! Here! I agree with you, especially in regards to lore in relation to chapters like Space Wolves and Salamander, cus Cawl will never be able to tame the canis helix.

[@sonofjack6286]

@@zacharygerken4387 Same for the Black Rage and Red Thirst.

[@lukethegamingkiwi662]

@Random Custodian Terminator as a Tau player (Farsight only tho) I find your lack of faith in the greater good disturbing

[@andresrodriguez8289]

I don’t care if I see daddy Titus in that armor 🤗🫠🤤😵‍💫

[@QixTheDS]

When I first heard of Primaris, I had thought that Cawl has somehow managed to get his hands on some old Raptor Project research and mixed with the time frame.

[@____________838]

I’m sure there’s some truth to that.

[@Author_Paluthor]

I used to hate them. But I'm okay with them now since they're not invincible and skill/experience of the firstborn still makes a difference.

[@WindFireAllThatKindOfThing]

I still hold to the theory that Cawl simply got his hands a lostech trove of Thunder Bros dev notes, and threw that in a blender with vintage Astartes jizz. He's good, but not "Haha, I one-upped the Big E and his lab rats" good. Because what you get is something in between the two. Not quite Thunder Bro brute badass, but more than Marine and with the Legionary upgrade sport package making them suitable for doin' Space Stuff as a team & not a mob of Conans on Fury Road.

[@crashingatom6755]

One of the nicest things about primaris is extra painting surface. It's really helpful and gives quite a bit more to the painter.

[@jonhahn6557]

I don't know about everybody else but I liked the Space Marines odd proportions. I remember that was one of the first things that I really thought was neat and it was very different from anything else. Everything in Warhammer has a very stylized aesthetic from the strange proportions of the Space Marine to the weird shapes of the Eldar and necron. I remember thinking that the Eldar looked very strange and I had no idea they had elf human faces underneath their helmets.

[@hatmanbuilder]

This! WH is not about realism in any way, it's about style. "True scale" = normal and boring.

[@weaponizedlizardmen360]

​@@hatmanbuilder wrong

[@joshdoz9234]

Primaris Marines are okay, but they could have had a better introduction.

[@toledochristianmatthew9919]

That is where the hate and criticism comes from. It felt rushed like I understand the in universe reason like the Primaries were meant solve the genetic problems of the space Marines but it felt like there was nit enough build up to it.

[@fiddlesticks7245]

Nah they're pretty stupid in lore and exist to make crunch spergs open their wallets for the new meta while also invalidating their old manlet marine armies. Plus most of the primaris marines are ugly and their vehicles are just hard on the eyes

[@linkofvev]

They should have gone the route of Chaos Space Marines. Just make bigger models and screw any new lore on them.

[@robertnelson9599]

The same goes for Yvraine and the Ynnari. The new stuff just popped up out of nowhere and now plays a big role in the story.

[@oatmeal8673]

@@toledochristianmatthew9919 I hate them mostly for the design, I'm way more into 30k than 40k so the Primaris just look far too futuristic and way less grimdark than I like

[@0100-u7k]

if your missing older (technically younger) brother suddenly apppears and is better than you in almost every way expect people to flood twitter and other social media with bs

[@Thrawnmulus]

Don't forget he has better equipment that has been lying around unused for thousands of years while your ability to protect the house has been weakening

[@christopherclayton5500]

@@Thrawnmulus To be fair, it took a Primarch, an Arch-Magos, and the Adeptus Custodes to get that not immediately declared tech-heresy.

[@Siathuan]

@@christopherclayton5500 which is really odd, given that we do have lore examples of progress being made. Not many, admittedly, but it's hard not to wonder about how many resources Cawl stole away to build a stockpile large enough for the Indomitus Crusade... and what might have been had those resources just been put into a few dozen regular chapters at any point during the last five centuries of the 42nd millennium...

[@Tectonix26]

As soon as GW shows they'll keep releasing new firstborn (And every other faction that isn't primaris) I'll believe they aren't making firstborn obsolete.

[@De_La_Evo]

as they should, there is like, no reason to keep firstborn, unless named, I feel like there is no real reason to add firstborn models, all primaris is is "ok let's just revamp the space marine boys" and that's what they are doing.

[@kevincass9917]

I want them to keep that old style of armor. Honestly it looks more archaic than the Primaris and a lot more appealing.

[@Tectonix26]

@@De_La_Evo The problem there is that GW has repeatedly shown that product lines that aren't reinforced get phased out. 8th and 9th edition already phased hundreds of datasheets into Legends. When will millions of firstborn marine models become effectively useless because they decide to pull the plug on the line? A lot of people would be very upset if 30 years of astartes models go the way of the Brettonians, Orcs & Goblins, Squats, Tomb Kings etc.

[@Dudewheresmyspider]

Hard no. All the squat marine molds should be cast to the furnace. Fuck squat marines. All my homies hate squat marines.

[@Sebomai-b8i]

@@Dudewheresmyspider piss off back to tiktok you zoomer

[@MorningLightMtn]

0:24 Its been 4 YEARS?! It felt like its just been a year or so. Fuck, time flies way too fast. Especially in these currently unpleasant circumstances

[@Kingedwardiii2003]

6 now :3 I was 15 6 years ago

[@dooomninja]

5:40 you make good points that basically come down to the difference between grimdark and misery porn, a line that warhammer has crossed over more than a few time 9:43 another point about cawl doing better than the emperor, but i think it is important to also note that the emperor didn't need space marines to be perfect, just good enough. all they were up against during the great crusade was some scattered and disconnected worlds and the odd orc warband. if they were too strong then they would have been more of a problem if/when they ran out of things to fight. but the modern imperium doesn't have that problem.

[@kadeoswald50]

they're alright, i just want them to make a primaris scale terminator marine models

[@FirstNameLastName-fe2tu]

With or without changing the design.

[@kadeoswald50]

@@FirstNameLastName-fe2tu id prefer if they didn’t change the design too much, I’d be fine if they had some squads that you could buy that were different tho, I just want the terminators to look fine next to the primaris marines I got

[@messageinthebottle1673]

There something I really enjoy the terminator I guess its the boxy back design.

[@kadeoswald50]

@@messageinthebottle1673 same, i would want them to make it like the conversion that Pete the Wargamer did to make them primaris scale

[@derekrunner2876]

There are terminators they just called them aggressors, I forget who but there was a post saying that it is the “the aggressors are the substitute to terminators”

[@ericdugdale8585]

Wolf Lord Rho highlighted a pretty relevant story about how Primaris-altered firstborn marines tend to be even less empathetic and more coldly calculating than they were before they underwent the change. Presumably this trait applies to some degree to fresh Primaris as well. If so then that shows that all the upgrades done by Caul had a heavy price to them. They're not a strictly superior model. I like this as it sort of fills the otherwise positive or noble-bright story of Primaris saving everyone with a background sense of dread. Dread for what might come out of this.

[@damienrichards7216]

I hope they end up having a similar flaw to the thunder warriors

[@joshuakim5240]

In other words, Primaris are the type of people who the Lamenters, the nicest dudes in the galaxy, would not approve of due to being too lacking in empathy. Then again, that's probably a good thing for the Primaris since anyone who gets into the Lamenters might as well commit suicide.

[@tempestvenator9809]

Interesting, I know I've made my own headcanon to explain WHY Primaris Marines have such limited weapon options, basically my theory is that Cawl's upgrades MAY stunt your intelligence. So the Primaris may not only be just less empathetic, but also a little dumber since they apparently wield specialist weapons like Flamers, Grav Guns, Plasmaguns that don't have easy to target cables attached (who came up with that design?) or aren't even capable of wielding the heavy weapons we know and love, just some new flavor of auto Bolter. I know that with newer models that theory holds less water, and the lack of weapon options could just be GW stupidity.

[@ericdugdale8585]

@@tempestvenator9809 They've actually been stated in canon to be *more* intelligent - at least when it comes to combat and to calculating, logical thinking. Converted Primaris have commented on their brainpower having been enhanced after the change. So it's not that they have stunted intelligence in general, certainly not when it comes to their ability to use weapons. It seems to be more that they lack *other* forms of intelligence, like emotional intelligence or empathy.

[@dragonthumbs7727]

Xenos: receives new models And here's your equal attention cake Primaris Marines

[@dandybeyond7234]

Close... Xenos: Receives new model, Primaris release. Chaos: Receives new model, Primarysue release, Primarysue release, Primarysue release...

[@mikemcquarrie4113]

yeah xenos here you 1 new unit. primaris get 10 plus kits...

[@heathermillsphantomlimb9314]

This, this, and only this.

[@Agrargorn]

"adding an extra few screws to them" sound very fitting, considering lots of astartes have lots of them loose, to be considered nuts. Anyway, if Bile can recreate Fulgrim, why shouldnt Cawl be able to roll out the 1.0.1 update on the Space Marines?

[@powerist209]

9:45- Initially, I thought it was a nod to Corvus Corax's experiment. Alpha Legion sabotaged it and turned out a lot of barely alive invalids along with damaging their geneseed stocks. Consider that he's 10,000 years old, some speculated that Cawl is actually Arkhan Land's incognito (though Land dislike full augmentation and tend to have human appearance).

[@joshuacouture479]

My only hate for the primaris is the “upgrade” packs, as well as their lack of war gear (grav guns, assault canons, etc) as well as the new primaris death company.

[@cyrilscordia9565]

pssssit hey you need some upgrades bits for your themed army ; without a decent content ( almost the number for a ten guys squad) for a kindney price ... no shit just fact

[@Ben-fk9ey]

Yea, the only unique looking space marine faction you can make with GW bits without breaking the bank is Space Wolves and that's by using the older kits mixed in with the new. Pretty much all the other chapters are just different colours.

[@joshuacouture479]

@@Ben-fk9ey you can do that with blood angels to as well as dark angels. It’s just for rest of the chapters there’s nothing, fortunately liberdeamonica exists, and they make lots of high quality conversion bits.

[@blingsing5383]

The lack of war gear made sense people already got upset that 1st borns were being overshadowed it stopped them becoming entirely redundant overnight

[@ultramarinescaptain3840]

I relate, I got some from a friend, and I was upset with the lack of customization. But I've found they are useful as a specialist sqaud in large point armies. So its fine.

[@asneakylawngnome5792]

Before video: "I don't get why?" After Video: "I get why...But, why?"

[@locomotivefaox]

“Oi Cawl get us some bevies!” Cawl staring into his open fridge: uhhhhhh...

[@irishpatriotv2575]

The Imperium of man is in a period of steady technological decline. I believe the quote is “Most of what was known has been forgotten, never to be relearned.” Then you get a bunch of new guns, new vehicles and a mega patch for the super soldiers

[@whatintheworld6413]

Some of mars tech priest learn new thing from Xenos technology maybe kind of heressy but hey, decline doesnt mean the knowledge destroyed.

[@duckpunt41]

11:00 tbh I love the Primaris helmet design, even though the 1st born are ore iconic. I also miss the old beaky helmets too.

[@minipaintermatt]

When I first heard about primaris I was like Omg they changed my precious space marines then I saw them and thought finally they have better proportions

[@Misanthropic-King]

Glad you’re back mate, the lack of 40k Australian shit talk in my life was notable in your absence

[@NP3GA]

Man you must made a video about the Matt Ward era this guy left a very big scur in 40k franchise

[@Lordswordfish]

I actually burst out laughing at 'Primaris Horus', very well played Majorkill. Next hentai calendar...

[@RebelOfTheNorm242]

I always chuckle at the Primaris drama, as I’m someone who got into the hobby EXACTLY when Primaris dropped, so for me, they ARE my space marines. So to see how the fan base is split on them is such a wake up call lmao

[@alkair422]

Yeah I just got into 40k like a month ago and I basically only have primaris marines. Like I would never buy old ones since primaris just look way better. I'm not totally deep into every little lore but I don't see any problems with them. With the introduction of the primaris there is also the oppertunity to make your own hoembrew chapter with a new theme and everything. In a few years nobody will remember primaris ever being in a bas spot.

[@AJPDing]

@@alkair422 Having homebrew chapters has never been a new thing. Even back in rogue trader that sort of thing was actively encouraged. This is also one of the reasons why two of the primarchs were never named (so you could create your own chapter with no relation to the existing ones).

[@ZaZi-Zeta01]

@@alkair422 It's already been 4+ years, and the resentment still stands my friend.

[@MrFallenone]

They are the definition of corporatization of hobbies ... streamlined, flawless, soulless, bland soup of a once great product.

[@De_La_Evo]

seethe, seethe, cope, seethe

[@moreplease998]

@@De_La_Evo He's not wrong tho

[@Velgar_Grim]

Also forcing you to buy the exact same item twice over because the first version wasn't selling anymore in their hundreds. And yes, "you can still play Legends" and "you can paint a jug of paint". Doesn't mean anyone will be or even should be doing it in regular basis. So in time it's very likely Primaris or GTFO of Marines.

[@De_La_Evo]

@@moreplease998 he is very much, wrong

[@moreplease998]

@@De_La_Evo Not really tho. Mass production of flavourless Gary Stu style "money makaaaaas!". It might be making a quick buck but if this shit doesn't stop soon 40k is going to go down the "rinsed out trash" can. Pushing out a major Necron update in between all the Gary Stu's was a slight side step in the right direction but geedubs is still very much on the path of doing their IP a dirty. Everyone with half a lick of sense can see that this too strong focus on "what sells most" is steering their ship towards a crash on this front. I personally like 40k as a game and would prefer to see it done right rather than see it get something akin to the Hasbro treatment.

[@theemperorofmankind7706]

The primaris are pretty good now ngl. And lore wise they were really needed to fresh things up for newcomers. Like I get why some don't like them,and their points aren't half bad but personally I like them.

[@theemperorofmankind7706]

@Ian Yoder true but you can clearly see the differences in the first borns compared to the newcomers and how many chapters are skeptical or outright refusing the primaris. Like the primarie have this long journey now in my eyes where not only must they prove themselves in front of the first born as loyal and competent but to also the consumers as not just a goody too shoes ultramarines 2.0 from the 7th edition where that prick ruined them and made them hated by everyone. And yeah...GW is reaaaally neglecting xeno races. Not so much the necrons at least and chaos got a new titan that is the biggest model in the game so far.

[@theemperorofmankind7706]

@Ian Yoder to me they felt like space dwarfs (the old models). And we already had that and it didn't work. So at least least me I prefer the new larger ones,but I get your feeling

[@ThatGuyUpThere]

So far the primaris issue has watered down to, hard core fans hating them because their are not grimdark enough (and would have to renew their armies) and new fans and normal fans interested (reluctanctly accepting) on how they would develope.

[@theoverpreparerlamenters3r436]

Thank you for your support, grandfather.

[@irontemplar6222]

@@ThatGuyUpThere No. No that is not the case. Look I joined in 7th edition as a guard player. The lore for Primaris is absolute s***. They are just improvements on the original marines. Stronger, Faster, Smarter, and they have less to no flaws to boot. (Inexperience doesn't count. That will be gone before the end of the indommitus crusade lore wise.) The lore is s*** part 2: There's also the fact that every astartes chapter (without exception as far as I can see) just decided to embrace the Primaris marines. Some chapters (Like the Dark Angels, and Blood Angels) wouldn't ever take primaris into there ranks. The former at best would use them as cannon fodder until they are all dead, and any who happened to survive would be put down afterwards. The Dark Angels and there successors might even go renegade from such an action. The Blood angels (and there successors) wouldn't accept them for the simple reason that despite how much they might loath the curses of the Red thirst, and the Black rage. Its a connection to there primarch, and the see it as that. (now I have heard that they have started adding back in the red thirst to some degree, but the point still stands. I don't see the blood angels accepting them in any capacity before that happened) Now I can't speak for the other chapters, but what I know from the lore of the Angels I know they wouldn't accept them. I dont think the sons of Russ would accept them either (If for no other reason then this being one of Guillimans creations) There Models: In the overall most people dont have a problem with there model. Except for the leg paldrons which look dumb. the problem most people have is the streamlining of the model, and just how blande the Primaris are. They all wear mk 10 power armor. They all have the new and improved equipment, and basically have almost nothing in the way of variation. I mean, just compare them to a squad of Tactical Marines. You have marines in mk4 armor, mk 5, mk 6, mk 7, and your sergeant might be wearing mk 8 armor. The bolters might have a scope, or they might not. Everything from there armor, there helmets, and everything else might be different. (Now this one might be easily fixed. If GW took the same approach, and simply made the model boxes more varied in terms of what armor the Primaris wore.) The Meta: Also of players view this as GW just replacing the original marines. Both in lore, and in model line... And thus far, it seems that is infact the case. The thing that finally nailed it home for alot of people was when they made it so original marines can be transformed into Primaris. This smells of a classic corporate bait and switch. They bring out the new line, and gradually make it better and better until the majority of the fanbase are using it, and then they start to pull the plug on the old line. Which will without a doubt leave many fans out in the cold. Which sucks for them if they want to keep playing, but dont like the new marines.

[@NoTimeAllTime]

I haven't had an army in a long time, but the idea of having to buy more all new models to be able to field an army combined with the fact that the initially the lore around the Primaris streamlined away a lot of things that made chapters unique AND the fact that this game changing lore / model change just happened to affect the largest segment of the consumer base had something to do with it.

[@Suika_Ibuki_The_Drunk_Oni]

But hey, in about 20 years when the brand new Optimum Marines are released, we will look back at this day and laugh.

[@adamkornacki606]

Lets just wish that first born will not be replaced

[@mrmaster9801]

My main problem is not the Primaris lore (not much at least), but just the replacement of the old minis. I like the new minis, they have better proportions, but I don't want to buy another army altogether (and I will have to, since we know very well that sooner or later those old minis will be good only for the shelves), expecially since I've spent many years building mine. The best thing, from my point of interest of course, would have been something like "Hey, we have updated the SM profiles, now they are faster and stronger and have better weapons. Guess what, we are also producing these new minis: sure, you will always be able to use your old ones, but come on, these ones looks cooler, don't you think?". But I guess this solution is not enough greedy for GW.

[@PrimarisBlackTemplaDraven]

The Last thunder warrior was right eventually the Space Marines will be replaced by the primaris

[@De_La_Evo]

now that, is fucking ironic man

[@MrSchnorkel]

I was thinking that the Thunder Warrior example runs directly counter to the gene flaw justification mentioned in this video. The emperor was so pragmatic that he straight up purged the proto space marines because they would not be as consisten/loyal/controllable as his new and mass produced variant. So saying that the emperor left the gene flaws in because it was "cool sometimes" when a blood angel falls to the black rage is really stupid, because these flaws clearly do more harm than good. He would have made his warriors as perfect as possible to better protect humanity. What I mean to say is that people shouldn't bend the lore over backwards in order to justify the powercreep. It's really transparent.

[@De_La_Evo]

@@MrSchnorkel heh?

[@MrSchnorkel]

@@De_La_Evo Yeah.

[@De_La_Evo]

@@MrSchnorkel ...yeah

[@sonofjack6286]

I actually like the Primaris. They may not have as much depth as the Firstborn Marines, but they're still cool, and Felix and Justinian are both the best Primaris I've seen so far.

[@mikipyr5687]

Tell me more about these dudes

[@sirdanthechipwright821]

Love Justinian's character arc

[@sonofjack6286]

@@mikipyr5687 Both of them were Primaris marines that had been a part of the Unnumbered Sons, basically the Primaris Marines that weren't part of any chapters. Decimus Felix also had the privelige of serving as Guilliman's equerry. After the Indomitus Crusade's end, Felix, who was a lieutenant in the Unnumbered Sons was Justinian's CO, so he gave Justinian the assignment paper that said he'd be going to the Novamarines, while Felix would become the unofficial 11th captain of the Ultramarines. When Guilliman returned to Macragge, he would also appoint Felix as a tetrarch of Greater Ultramar, and was given governorship of Vespator, he's basically a Primaris Space Marine lord now. Meanwhile, with Justinian, he's a sergeant in the Novamarines and has since become close to his new brothers, after almost dying during Typhus's assault on the Star Fortress Galatan, which was over Espandor, a world in Ultramar, during the Plague Wars.

[@ultramarinescaptain3840]

Ima be honest, in 9th they changed it up so the Firstborn were all buffed, 2 wounds per model, and the primaris 1. Litterally all the models swapped states with there equivalent Primaris. It was very neat, and me and my friend had minds blown.

[@christianvoorhees69]

The best part about being new is finding out all the juicy gossip you previously thought was reserved for the likes of My Little Pony & the American Justice-System

[@chaptermasterpedrokantor1623]

Majorkill or: How I Learned to Stop Sperging and Love the Primaris

[@luckiller019]

the answer: slap some MK7 helmet on them

[@Lorddanklin]

“Mein Emperor, I can walk!” *glasses planet*

[@redsampler2017]

@@luckiller019 exactly!!!

[@cas4611]

I love it, Majorkill shows his Custodes h_@ r d on by describing the Brazen Drake incident as if the golden bois were not going to just execute the Grey shields for having the wrong name.

[@kiesarisunny13]

I do like the mix of Primaris and First-Born, a mix of new and old and I love it

[@peerfant7210]

The argument shouldn't be "How did Cawl improve on the template." but rather "How the F isn't it considered heresy?!?". It's like saying "Hey, these new humans Lucifer created are awesome and they're ok by us. Lucifer is awesome and he definitely didn't go against our God." There are no plot holes in the Primaris, they are a plot hole. There are a hundred ways you could have made the introduction of the Primaris coming to existence and the fact GW didn't think of even one of them is sad. It's not like they HAD to rush this. A year here-there in warhammer 40k context would've been a drop in the sea.

[@fan9775]

Hence why I collect chaos. They’re “true scale” now.

[@Powerhungry5000]

At least they’ve also improved a lot of firstborn sculps! The new chaos marines look wonderful

[@worldwar1flyingace645]

On the face of things, it looked like GW dropped a near-faction-sized release on their poster-boys, which didn't help their reputation for favoritism. Timmy's will say "But Space Marines sell the best, so of course they keep giving them models," to which I always reply that if GW bothered to advertise the other factions, they'd do almost just as well. I think this was evidenced by their recent promotion of SoB and Necrons.

[@dustyboi8975]

I am growing to like the concept of the Primaris, especially since they are now having flaws and limitations of their own introduced. But when they were first revealed they were pretty awful. Just a bunch of shiny special perfect boys popping up from nowhere. The end of the novel Devastation of Baal really captures just how god awful the Primaris were to start with. You spend a whole book watching the blood angels desperately trying to survive. Then at the end you’re supposed to be happy that they’re all being replaced by these shiny new bland marines? Oh and they don’t even have the red thirst or the black rage? Oh and they have Guilliman’s fighting style bred into them from 70 years fighting alongside him? So they’re literally red ultramarines? Thank god that was retconned honestly

[@MrDMIDOV]

People are too invested in hating them.

[@alikazan2330]

I agree

[@snip105]

Honestly I didn’t really know how to feel about the Primaris. But after learning the lore behind their existence and their role as reinforcements for the imperium. And also the art for them was really awesome. I was fully onboard with the Pimaris marines.

[@Michael-ex8lk]

I do like the look of their armor more.

[@starpaladingoldbug2282]

one of the problems with primaris is that we will never get true scale firstborn minis, or any true scale mk2-8 minis which sucks cause the firstborn line needs a revamp, new sister models are taller then them, chaos space marines who are firstborn are taller then them. and gw does plan on removing firstborn as we see in the books it is stated that the rubicon risk is getting lower and lower to the point there would be no risk of dying to become a primaris marine

[@smoothseeker6196]

I've grown used to primaris, but the main thing I didn't like on launch was the armor change. Classic space marine armor was around for so long its become iconic and for it to change out of no where was... well alot of people know the shitstorm that happened. So my main gripe was the sudden design change to an iconic armor thats been around longer then I've been alive. Been in all the games i've played. It just was the armor you immediately knew when you saw it. But in time I thinking grew on me... though im still not use to the lack of face grills for the helmets and im not a fan of the primaris dreadnought. Its not boxy enough.

[@ilikepigeons6101]

It'll eventually become iconic if GW won't stop sucking them off and putting them into everything warhammer related

[@lioneljohnson6189]

Thank you sooo much Majorkill. Your videos helped me learn warhamer very well and you are very funny

[@jinx8624]

The worst thing is the lack of personality each chapter once had But apart from that they are pretty cool

[@TotallyNotJustCynical]

"And crusty fedoras were angrily thrown to the ground" That is one of my new favourite analogies I have ever heard.

[@T-h-a-t_G-u-y]

My biggest issue is how one tech priest managed to improve upon the entire astartes gene seed but when the whole imperium attempted the same thing it lead to the cursed founding.

[@jlntpy1706]

A tech priest who was involved in the creation of the primarch themselves and has the knowledge of several very talented and inovative scientist from the time before the crusade against a nation who stagnates since the emperor died. I think it's quiet accurate, and 10k years it took cawl to create the primaris.

[@themilkman993]

He took 10,000 years to add 3 new organs, and even then the organ that had the most effect was literally just one half of something the Emperor designed. As for the Cursed Founding, they didn’t have pure Primarch DNA to work off of so it was less about Cawl’s genius and more that they didn’t have a cheat sheet.

[@00pugsly48]

GW does have a mighty crowbar to force shit into the lore.

[@ChuvaktheGreat]

Let’s have some primaris Primarchs, a new founding of 20 Primaris Primarchs!

[@thecommentguy9380]

Fuck it! PRIMARIS BIG E!!!

[@theinquisitionsparrot6749]

I do like Primaris, but i want some new Eldar for goodness sake!

[@davidgarcia-wb1yn]

like Big titi eldar GF.

[@SkitzofrkHxc]

If Gabriel Seth ever falls to the black rage, all he will see is Primaris Horus.

[@goni2493]

The snartest move was making the Primaris to be a set of armor instead.

[@spooky2466]

Those magnets look pretty nifty

[@madtrapper1312]

Last time I was this early the emperor was still walking

[@0100-u7k]

still had his left eye

[@maciejas2471]

I hope that King in Yellow's army has Firstborn

[@b3rz3rk3r9]

I think that what could help the Primaris may be some lorebuilding with Old School. Y'know, good old Dead Poets-Rocky-Hot Shots stuff: having a Firstborn champion, aged in the ways of War, training a new squad of Primaris. Have the Primaris start off cocky then get their ego beaten out of them; only by following the Firstborn's orders and wisdom. And near the end: have the Primaris build on tnat wisdom sith experimentation; showing a respect for the past by using it as a basis for growth.

[@macshadow1150]

Maybe Guilliman has simply shared with them his most OP power, preventing them from joining Chaos? A FUNCTIONNAL BRAIN?

[@RogueFox2185]

Primaris is alright though their introduction didn’t give them a strong first impression, it’d also be nice if Chaos had their own version of them because seemingly right now they are getting curb stomped by the new guys.

[@drkittyphd6205]

They probably will soon, since Fabius Bile has already taken an interest in the primaris. And if you follow the lore then you'll know that Bile captured a few of the custodes that massacred the brazen drakes, so his primaris might actually be stronger if he manages to replicate any of the costudes enhancements

[@bloodangel19]

But chaos has 4 op gods. Like 7? Primearchs, giant blood thirsty demons, the whole damn warp thus making them nigh on imposible to fully purge(can't go demon hunting into the warp without the blessing of Matt Ward ya know) and multiple LEGIONS(albeit some are weaker than in the times of the heresy) honestly primaris ain't shit next to these guys. C'mon the imperium even has to deal with the cicatrix maladictum.

[@RogueFox2185]

I mean since the fall of Cadia has Chaos even gotten any other significant gains at all since the rift expanded? With the Primaris around I have yet to see Chaos actually gain a victory over them, even with the Chaos Gods and Daemons on their side.

[@bloodangel19]

@@RogueFox2185 hey, idk but from the lore chaos is op as hell. If the writers are unable to be unbised and show it that's on them. And i ain't a chaos fanboy either. I like custodes and even they got done dirty

[@robertnelson9599]

I just hoped they do something like the Chaos Knights, where the model is unique enough to be cool.

[@danc3159]

First - edit now I’m a simp also what happened at 4:03 lol

[@majorkill]

I'm bad at editing

[@abysswalker9700]

@@majorkill lol

[@nakedicaro]

hahahahahaha I thought he had a stroke at that point lol

[@AspectPL]

I hate primaris design choices. Their modern-looking factory new armor and vehicles. I don't like the design of the new armors and helmets (especially thin phobos ones and the silly inceptor/suppressor ones). They look more like starcraft or killzone than 40k. In addition, they are uniform throughout all of the chapters which is just lame.

[@mr.alpharius6409]

More grimderp than grimdark you could say.

[@Anders-vl6kk]

Let's be real here. Primaris Marines were made so people will buy more figures

[@supremeleaderwoke7083]

I'll admit that I'm not that far into the lore but I've always wondered, how exactly did Cawl not get discovered? I mean, if I remember correctly, he was already a pretty skilled tech priest when Guilliman put him up to the task. Combine that with the fact that Guilliman noticed Cawl specifically in a sea of tech priests means that Cawl himself was probably high ranking himself at the time. The thing is, wouldn't he have a lot of eyes on him, especially in the upper echelons of the Mechanicus? From what I understand, the Mechanicus power politics is probably only slightly less cut-throat than Imperial Highborn politics, so surely there would be those out to bring Cawl down a peg. So my question is: how exactly did Cawl, for 10,000 years, managed to keep a project this large and involving so many resources (getting candidates for Space Marine training and gene seed implementation, additional servitors and tech priests to help maintain his facilities, further help in maintaining logistics etc.), how in fuck did no-one in the massive body that is the Mechanicus manage to find out about it?

[@pa1agyemankwadwoafriyie895]

Its simple, dont ask questions, just go with the flow...

[@CryptoInsightsJournal]

An interesting twist would be an event like one of the chaos gods probably Tzeentch put into the Primaris a sense of resentment towards the firstborn space marines because of how the first-born look down on the Primaris and the Primaris are like "fuck this noise" and turn on the firstborn like in the Drop Site Massacre and it escalated into a First-Born vs Primaris war.

[@HoundofOdin]

A First-Born vs Primaris War would be cool, but I know it would end with my beloved First-Born getting stomped.

[@casparlykke1]

When people invest time and money into to something (Be it lore or miniatures), and then when it's changed or invalided most people feel like their investment looses it value, Hence they rage in hope that the new stuff looses its value, hence validated their own investment. - Pretty simple social behavior. Especially if this is the only value you think you have as a person or identity.

[@chaosouroboros4848]

Well said indeed.

[@blindoutlaw]

Players: Can we have true scale marines? GW: Sure can, plus we progressed the lore by adding new marines Players: You fucking what?!!

[@00pugsly48]

Well they made shit lore and shit new models to make your old army feel out and redundant. That’s why people are annoyed.

[@SilentHotdog28]

@@00pugsly48 Yet other factions don't get models for years.....People really need to stop complaining.

[@00pugsly48]

@@SilentHotdog28 they don’t completely change the aesthetic and go against 30 years of established lore in order to make your longtime collection redundant with the other factions though do they. Legitimate criticism of shitty business is ok.

[@SilentHotdog28]

@@00pugsly48 Fair points, but damn I feel bad for other factions not getting any love.

[@GromusPrime]

They should've just seamlessly update the models without saying anything in the lore or just pass it off as a new Armor model rather than a change to Space Marines themselves.

[@thebignappp]

DUDE....yer hilarious keep it up my man im loveing yer style

[@PrimarisBlackTemplaDraven]

They are made by the Mechanicus and not by the Emperor so they are Heretical

[@thedeviloftherhine6860]

Thank you

[@isanayashiro2376]

*Chad Mahreens* *Spess Mahreen Spess Mahreens* *Super Super Soldiers* But most importantly : *ULTRA ULTRAMAHREENS* BASED

[@PelinalWhitestrake36]

I’m just annoyed that the primaris lack that cool and ornate look that made old marines dope. That and they are barley compatible with older kits so i can’t use the cooler mk 2-3-7 legs and torsos

[@archmagosbelisariuscawl1192]

* laughs in bladegaurd *

[@thecountofangelicislands6183]

I'm making a mixed space marine army, both primaris, and older models

[@alikazan2330]

That's pretty much what I have

[@floridaball4896]

Now hear me out, Space Marine Space Marines -Games Workshop executive

[@Clarkarius7]

Lore wise: I just think they're neat. Tabletop wise: Ouch my wallet...

[@fiddlesticks7245]

Yeah dude it's awesome that they managed to nuke fluff AND crunch all at the same time!

[@whiteeye9584]

@@fiddlesticks7245 that was sarcasm?

[@fiddlesticks7245]

@@whiteeye9584 nah dude I'm ecstatic that they found a way to screw over the tabletop AND lore at the same time

[@whiteeye9584]

@@fiddlesticks7245 when did you start hobby, 2017?

[@fiddlesticks7245]

@@whiteeye9584 yessir I'm a yungun

[@lsynno]

Warhammer40k needs Uber-powered armies clashing with each other. So humanity getting dunked on 24/7 was not sustainable. They needed a big upgrade and good on GW for delivering.

[@danielhanson2417]

Fisrtborn players are also mad because firstborn models and units are slowly being moved to legends

[@mr.alpharius6409]

Yeah it stings like buggery tbh, if they were a true update then I think we would be "mostly" good but when your army get slowly murdered like this it leaves a very sour taste.

[@nick0875]

One of my problems with the Primaris Marines is that from a lore perspective, if Belisarius Cawl had worked on preventing the Mechanicus' slow decay when it comes to technological knowledge than the Imperium would not need these new marines. He's been around for 10,000 years and apparently didn't pay attention to the complete clusterfuck the Priesthood of Mars has become? Considering how powerful some of the relics from the Dark Age of Technology and Great Crusade era are he has some weird priorities.