Why Do We Like Self Destructive Celebrities?

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[@smallvalleyproductions9103]

As an artist, you are looking to collect. You collect experiences, and then finely tune them, mix and splice and fracture and reassemble into a story or performance or piece. When you are suffering, you should not view that suffering as the art itself, only as the first step in the journey. Art requires knowledge of suffering, but it does not require you to suffer for its creation. Take care of yourself. Nobody is going to create the art you're going to create, because nobody is you. Only you can create what you think and feel, and if you're dead, there's no more you. no more art.

[@storytellers1]

I think the creation of art by collecting experiences is one of the most important ideas there is. But we shouldnt believe we have to suffer, or fight or experience everything we write/paint/create about. This only creates barriers and pain. I often think about George R.R. Martin. A creative student of history yes. But he does not have to experience everything he writes about in Game of Thrones... Luckily

[@nodescriptionavailable3842]

I think most successful artists suffer much less then the stereotype or even average people, being the suffering kind myself I'd say it doesn't help without the sprinkling of incredible luck. Even perseverance becomes a life wrecker if you aren't successful. Much more to add to that but...

[@ambercrombie789]

This is really good.

[@user-ol3mn4yw7h]

bowie was very big on that collecting part

[@SpoopySquid]

It's a lot easier to make art or follow your passions when you're not struggling to pay for groceries or battling untreated mental illness

[@kollow]

My brother is an artist, not a genius, but honestly his best work came after he gave up the starving artist lifestyle. Why? I guess it's because he got a paying job, got married, had kids. He also suffered a horrible accident that almost killed him. I would suppose the various changes in his life gave him a broader perspective from which to draw inspiration from.

[@ernestthemadhatter-2-274]

Yeah I can kind of agree with this most of my good art comes out when I come back from lapses in judgement. I don’t know the “wild lifestyle” that people complain about. Is honestly a challenge we put in front of ourselves so that we can conquer it. The conquering of the struggle is the art and putting that into a piece is kind of beautiful. It can inspire others

[@isado3d]

I am an artist and have self destruction tendencies, those tendencies started during my teenage years, but I was able to calm it down on my early twenties... I still feel it though, it's like a sleeping monster inside my brain, a monster that I have to be careful not to wake up. I also do have depression - which I'm treating with therapy and medication - and about a month or two ago, I've had a severe depression period that lasted three weeks, and let me tell, it's not cool like the movies like to show you, the depressed artist doesn't do art, because he/she cannot even get out of bed! It's terrible and shouldn't be romanticized... now I am feeling well, I'm working out, eating healthly and being able to make art again.

[@David-ri2uc]

So nice to read about your testimony, wish you the best in your efforts.

[@isado3d]

@@David-ri2uc Thank you so much!

[@mrsevenchang]

Lol

[@a.k.6544]

"I write only when inspiration strikes," he replied. "Fortunately it strikes every morning at nine o'clock sharp.” ― Steven Pressfield, The War of Art:

[@artemisia4718]

Funny enough, Judith Polgar consulted for "The Queen's Gambit". Polgar's father trained his three daughters to be chess child prodigies (including the youngest and more famous one, Judith) while setting out to prove that genius is more nurture than nature. And all three of his daughters couldn't be farthest from the self-destructive genius archetype.

[@nickgreen2905]

For every Cobain or Hendrix or Van Gogh there are far more McCartneys and Picassos and Billy Joels who seem genuinely happy and well adjusted. I think the artists who burn out and die tragically young are remembered more because their fall is so painful and memorable to their fans. Almost all the musical artists that have been on the top 20 charts are not mentally ill.

[@GigaChadh976]

Wrong

[@Suba932]

Top 20 artists are products, not artists.

[@chevon5707]

Picasso was a deranged sociopath.

[@compteinexistant3488]

I don't know about the other two but you should know that Picasso has been commonly characterised as a womaniser and a misogynist, being quoted as having said "Women are machines for suffering." In her memoir, Marina Picasso writes of his treatment of women, "He submitted them to his animal sexuality, tamed them, bewitched them, ingested them, and crushed them onto his canvas. After he had spent many nights extracting their essence, once they were bled dry, he would dispose of them." Of the several important women in his life, two died by suicide. Others, notably his first wife and his mistress, succumbed to nervous breakdowns. His son developed a fatal alcoholism due to depression. His grandson also died by suicide that same year by ingesting bleach when he was barred from attending the artist's funeral.

[@azovandy14.88]

Billy Joel has a long history of drug and alcohol abuse into his 60’s so not sure why you listed him or McCartney who also had a few decades of drug addiction but I guess you’re just naive when it comes to drug culture because a lot of these people who died of accidental OD’s were just unlucky and instead of you looking at them as the prototype of the 27 yr old club but besides Cobain idk if any of the numerous people in here suicided. Ask any drug addict and they’ll tell you it’s easy to make a fatal mistake with drugs that shut down your cns and breathing and if there’s no one else there or they’re just scumbags (a lot of good people do terrible things on drugs like not call 911) you’ll become a statistic. This has nothing to do with whether artists flourish or flame out on drugs but one things for sure society would be a better place filled with more people who were taken too soon due to criminalization and simple harm reduction measures with decriminalizing all drugs would have saved not only a few very talented young people but millions of regular young, middle aged, and old people if we simply ended the war on drugs and there would be no where near the level of romantic notions about some of the most insidious compounds known to man but those who chose to go down that path wouldn’t be penalized with a death sentence for poor judgment that is out of some people’s control as we know drug/alcoholism are genetic but can also be environmental as well.

[@wayawuffin]

my best work comes from when i am able to be reflective and thoughtful about the things i want to create - two things i am not when i’m all muddled up in the malaise of depression. it’s totally destructive. i understand the desire to romanticize those moments, but it’s never worth it in the long run and i want to be doing this for as long as i can. anyway, very good video!!

[@d4mdcykey]

I will say, my most _impactful_ art is when things are very, very bad and all that dark energy is finally unleashed onto the canvas. Conversely, some of my most enjoyable, almost effortless work when things are great has a wider, generic appeal. Both approaches have equal merit in my experience.

[@sketchtheparadigmyork1217]

These stories are grounded in reality though. Genius doesn’t require madness, but genius is not immune to the same problems as anyone else. Sometimes people can’t just realize “oh I’m being self destructive” “oh I’m depressed let me just give up this silly act so I can get a real job or just be a happy artist”

[@hey-zel]

A recent movie I liked a lot that has to do with this topic is called The Novice (2021) and I don't want to spoil it at all but I thought it was pretty good and should be checked out. Don't think the ending will disappoint anyone

[@daighorocalonge3446]

This is one of the bests videos i ever seen. Just see that you're one of those millions of "analysis video" that add a new and very well-doing point of view about the theme of Self-Destructive. Me, as a stupid young teenager with artists dreams and with my life in a very "next-door" to alcohol and drug addictions, have been so identified with the psychological-art theme, the way that you Put in order this same love by self destructive artists that i look on the teenagers (in general).

[@RanmaSyaoranSaotome]

Similarly, the idea of "The Starving Artist" didn't really exist in the public psyche until the 1840 publication of "The Bohemians of the Latin Quarter: Scenes de la Vie de Boheme" by Henri Murger which popularised the troupe as being seen as a traumatic life experience an artist had to go through. It also didn't help that many looked to Da Vinci who often complained he was destitute and poor in his diaries, despite research showing he actually had around £45,000,000 to his name!

[@storytellers1]

Have a video on the 'starving artist' trope on my list!

[@baritony8763]

Great subject, unaddressed. Kay Redfield Jamison puts it in clinical context in her book "Touched With Fire". So many perspectives. My favorite is the person so dedicated/obsessed with their art, that they permit themselves one transgression---one chance at freedom---a non-obligated, unstructured and uncommitted indulgence---that is taken in excess. The reward for commitment.Alcohol,sex,speed,downs,when socially available & accepted,or not(of any self-medication---before current knowledge of bipolar, major depressive or even schizoid types).When up---I need downs, when down---I need ups.Not to even mention the tapping into the inner thoughts during stream-of -consciousness impulses. Now we're talking Jim Morrison.Super untapped topic.

[@santiagorojaspiaggio]

A teacher of mine used to say that "the best artists work better under pressure", but i don't believe that. He just put on more difficult situations that didn't allow us to learn the good way (i suspect it was just an excuse for not really being able to teach us something productive). He was forcing us to learn the bad way, stressed and losing passion for the project. I understand that another premise behind this is that we are gonna encounter a lot of problems when we're not learning and filming on "the real life", so better to be prepared. But if that's true, there's no need of causing us more unnecessary problems at the learning stage. Problems will always come by their own, whenever they're destined to. It's only logical that anybody, even good artists, want to give their best and have the best conditions as possible. Problems are not something you LOOK FOR. Much less, if you haven't learned the basics. The only thing i can agree with is that some hard conditions, like for example, a time limit, CAN force you to stop thinking and just DO. That can get you out of an artist's block and allow a project to concrete its existence. Faster, at least. BUT that doesn't mean artists work better that way, or that the product is better than if you worked under good conditions. It's a lottery: you can have something good or have something really bad, that wasn't even what you wanted to do.

[@leonaleonis]

Top notch video. Love the intro you made overlaying music with the news reports and video.

[@leonaleonis]

May I ask where you get your music? Epidemic sound?

[@DeafBlindMan]

I just pulled up the guitar half way through this video, started improvising and came up with a new song, thanks!

[@NATOnova]

never thought of it, but this archetype is certainly a serotype that's isn't as common as it seems. love you giving practical steps to get out of this toxic mindset.

[@MikeCrain]

I have schizophrenia and I can say "creativity and psychosis often go hand in hand" is true, but probably not for the reasons the person who wrote that dialogue/story/whatever thinks.

[@marcusreviato]

Hey bud Have downloaded your sponsors app to support you love your work

[@jmalmsten]

While I do love the works of Trier and Anno. Both made great stories that resonate deeply. (Again, much can be said how they also don't produce while in their bouts with depression) But before I am tempted to emulate it I do remember rhe shining beacon of exception... Weird Al. Or to quote David Lynch: "You don't have to suffer to portray suffering." Or the old anti method question, "My dear boy, have you tried acting?"

[@Sirenity01]

The older I get and more I dive into my artistry the more I relate to this

[@ResistanceQuest]

I have to thank you for making this video because it got me to watch The Queen's Gambit. Extremely inspiring show. I am a creative person in many disciplines and have always had a tendency towards depression and substance abuse/addictive behavior in general. I think it's partly a reaction that artists have to the way society makes us behave "normally" and makes us do things that we don't care about, jobs being the easiest example. In being extremely sensitive people, yet not being able to just do what comes naturally to us (as Winehouse says) and having to adjust to a world where artists are only valued for what they sell, death becomes the closest thing to truth, and drugs and mental illness are a way to get closer to death. Sometimes, too close

[@DecayingReverie]

I feel like a lot of people romanticize the idea of drug addiction--that constant becoming unhinged then cleaning up for a while. It's that whole "call to the abyss" thing we have. My dad has had a lifelong struggle with addiction and has only now been able to stay clean for an extended period of time. I inherited his predilection toward addiction. I was able to get away from alcoholism and now thankful have no desire to ever return. I do have an issue with psychedelics though. Though as I understand it, they aren't inherently difficult, I find life insufferably boring without them. I have experienced that romanticism of addiction. I think because so many amazing artists have been addicts their entire life, it is easy to see it as something we just have to deal with to achieve greatness.

[@dielanschamber8730]

Most of them were eaten alive by the industry, is not like they WERE like that from the get go. It's the industry that kills creative artists.

[@nkanyisoinnocentkhwane3752]

The war of art was the real kick in my butt I needed to get me in gear

[@brunokalil142]

Great insight

[@hagenlens1403]

Seriously one of the best videos I have ever watched. Thank yoj

[@CamdenMcInnis]

Very Similar to the Underdog Myth who mostly overcomes problems or meets good fortune by chance. Winners win most often because winning is a habit about out of other smaller habitual routines and rituals.

[@svire_p]

2:07 now that's how you pronounce Van Gogh's name.

[@storytellers1]

Well I'm Dutch so it would be a shame if I messed that up haha

[@victoriavalence]

@@storytellers1 WAIT WHAT...THIS whole time it's pronounced voh-hoh? My life is a lie.

[@itsjustcam247]

"there is no story without conflict" Slice of life animes: Allow us to introduce ourselves

[@ernestotorelli1209]

Kudos.

[@The-One-and-Only]

I’ve lost count of how many titles and thumbnails I’ve seen of this video. Cobain’s one worked for me.

[@mehrabahmedhasam5998]

loved it.

[@storytellers1]

Thank you!

[@pasknight6160]

could you put on the screen which movies the clips on screen come from? super curious about the clip starting at 7:08

[@free12345]

interesting perspective

[@adriannademadriguera4859]

can you update this with the film titles you used for this video. there are two that I am not familiar with and would love to see. please consider this from now on. thank you for your hard work.

[@darylhappi3402]

What do you use to get film clips

[@briansinger5258]

Bohemian Rhapsody captured the indulgence of artistic process as that, part of the process. The hedonism being somewhere between a cautionary tale and an embrace of freedom. The film doesn’t justify him, which I’ve not seen elsewhere, in other biopics. I think the bottom line is that the mind that can create something of value for others, is usually vulnerable to dopamine chasing.

[@AnjanaTarpaulins]

Nice

[@Zach-ls1if]

There's lots of creative geniuses that had trials and tribulations but worked through it and grew as human beings. The others just succumbed to their demons and died, so they are more memorable because of that. Some creative geniuses that lived to tell about it: Lindsey Buckingham, Eminem, Snoop Dogg, Stephen King, Eric Clapton, Pablo Picasso. It doesn't have to end in tragedy, but sadly it often does.

[@damariuswingfield2144]

What happened to the video about going pro? I often go back to that one for inspiration.

[@danfromtheburgh]

good video

[@LeonMRr]

"Meth is the eighth wonder of the world" -Albert Einstein

[@happynothappy666]

10:49 Name of movie ??

[@forgivingfrequency62]

The worst thing to happen to an artist is the mundane, for in normality lies no chaos and no chaos breeds no art

[@ysucae]

artists create great works DESPITE their illnesses, not because of them. genius doesn't exist. it's work and obsession and skills you develop over time. sure, you can be a prodigy at chess but if you don't play it's worth nothing. you create when your brain functions properly. if you're high or drunk you do SHIT work. there is a balance you have to get to where you are open to your emotions, whatever they might be, and being functionning humans. a lot of people self medicate to feel that balance and that's a real danger. sure, experiences can enrich your art but you have to SURVIVE THEM - and also survive the world that exploits you for your hard work. always remember very few artists actually gain something from the elite art market. most creatives get barely paid enough for their work to go by, the ones who create your movies, cartoons, comics and video games. most of it is gig work which in a lot of countries doesn't come with unemployment or health insurance and you do a lot of unpaid clerical work to get to the job you actually want to do. that contributes a lot to the mental anguish. the art market is for suits and investors, not art. sadly. (note: it is theorised van gogh didn't kill himself. he was accidentally shot and didn't denounce the youth who did it.)

[@happynothappy666]

7:41 Name of movie

[@afterdinnercreations936]

This maybe a massive oversimplification, but to me, it says: "If you're an artist and make money doing it, you'll suffer; so go work in a factory."

[@violet.louder]

True art comes from political struggle which is often recognized by emotional turmoil.

[@briansinger5258]

Should I type that poem out again?

[@DineshSainath]

Cool video and background music. Music source?

[@storytellers1]

Thx! Which song you want the source of?

[@DineshSainath]

From 3:09 and 5:36 ; not sure if its the same track

[@storytellers1]

🖼 Skip the waitlist and invest in blue-chip art for the very first time by signing up for Masterworks: masterworks.art/storytellers

[@WhitneyDahlin]

Is this a repost? I swear I saw this exact video a couple days ago!

[@storytellers1]

@@WhitneyDahlin Yeah it got claimed so had to resolve that took 2 days for it to be released

[@GoldCarpp]

great video

[@aanotherthem]

When I saw this video, I instantly thought of Reagan from Inside Job.

[@IWTBFOY]

Why did you take down the video?

[@storytellers1]

Had a little copyright issue I had to clear up

[@invincibleluis]

The road to heaven begins in hell.

[@Iowa2006]

For every self destructive addicted genius that create wonderful things there hundreds if not thousands of self destructive addicted people that just self destruct and bring down with them anyone that tried to help. So yeah. Romanticizing this lifestyle is a bad idea.

[@t.c.s.7724]

Self destructive is actually misleading. Individuals who seem to be destructive are actually using substances/behaviors/etc to tolerate existence.

[@user-vr5zk9ox8d]

Bell gang x2

[@JoshuaAugustusBacigalupi]

It would be great if, when citing research to make a point, that research is listed in the show notes. Even if I go find similar research for myself, it may not be what this video is basing its claims upon.

[@davidpereira4455]

Someone likes Tool - Vicarious too much

[@BitterDawn]

I think the appeal is people getting to observe and experience existential suffering incarnate, the self destruction is the icing on the cake, and cake is great but without the icing it's just not as exciting or enjoyable. Maybe they just ran out of interesting ideas but, musician's who made amazing music not on drugs or not in struggle compared to them going sober I've felt was less enjoyable, and to be pessimistic the 27 club may have grown to make uninspiring, boring music compared to their earlier works.

[@psalm702]

Where's Elliott Smith?

[@Checker222]

Holy fuck, this video doesn't start until 4:22, jesus christ!

[@storytellers1]

The sponsor integration might be a bit long but I am actually quite proud of the opening editing? How can I improve in your opinion?

[@Checker222]

@@storytellers1 too much foreplay, start the video

[@bortex1333]

👍👍👍👍👍🖖🖖🖖🖖🖖

[@ffffff52]

As an artist, it's not a stereotype or cliche... its a reality, if anything its more of a norm among those gifted by uncontainable creativity and could be argued, per my multiple debates with specialists in the field, that mental illness is almost a requirement to achieve greatness in a shapeless field... even if this greatness goes unnoticed the artist will self-destruct to create since is in that turmoil were the "genius" lies. Edit: I have never disagreed more with a video(that isn't outright propaganda), if anything this video perpetuates the romantic appreciation of the artists for the sake of not damaging the "mental health". Denying the cruel reality of any profession is straight maliciousness, doing it to attract more workers to it will only perpetuate the self-fulfilling cycle of the "tortured" artist. with a new generation of naive individuals that were sure it's just "made up".

[@aliceinwonder8978]

I don't think most people actually like self-destructive persons (unless they too are self-destructive, in which case it is simply relatable). People will consume media about *ssh*les all day long, sort of like staring at the scene of a car crash. It's a curiosity. It's a spectacle. It's stimulating. But if we have to know these people in our daily lives, they are insufferable and we don't like them.

[@beanwithbaconmegarocket]

Pretty superficial analysis tbqh. There is no link between genius and self-destructive behavior (at least made that point at 9:50). The probability of genius and the probability of self-destructive behavior are independent and sometimes they overlap. Our society's obsession with it is less to do with inherent fascination and more to do with 1) a media cabal that sensationalizes it and 2) a declining civilization which seeks escapism in fantasies of hedonism and immaturity instead of a rising civilization in which those anti-social behaviors are decried and people who engage in such behavior are ostracized or ignored. EDIT: The most brilliant innovations and art that changed the course of human history came out of civilizations on the rise in which degenerate values were spit on--look at the philosophies of the Enlightenment, the art of the Renaissance, the music of the Romantic period, the architecture of the Romans, the science of 1930s Germany and post-war Russia, and the current rise of China. In the modern United States, our pop culture is not organic--it amounts to sheep following trends placed in front of them by media empires and social media. We are TOLD "tortured" artists are brilliant. These artists are selected and promoted but very few of them have talent any greater than thousands of non-self-destructive artists who were never placed in front of us by media moguls. I'll go so far as to say if we didn't have such a degrading, vulgar culture in the West, many of these artists would not even engage in self-destructive behavior.

[@GradoFun]

Actually, I never liked that archetype

[@Rithmy]

I don't like that you recommend a 9 to 5 stiff work shedule. Not everyone is effective with that. People, test it with yourself. If you get the same quality of work done in 30 than forcing you to do 40, go for the 30. And take regular breaks. Attention goes down rapidly, but can also be restored fast.

[@warbler1984]

Too much of this video was an ad

[@storytellers1]

Unfortunately the channel can't exist without ads but i'll try to make sponsor integrations 1 minute at max.

[@roberttestowy5037]

I don't see it so. We love stories of underdog genius. It does not have to be "self destructive" but it have to start small.

[@AlmostEthical]

To be fair, Jimi Hendrix died because he was exhausted from an extreme touring workload and took too many prescription sleeping pills in an effort to get a good night's sleep. In a way, his management worked him to death for $$.

[@jessyfretz5800]

What good is making great art if you're dead.

[@Krillinjustchillin]

Nooo the other thumbnail was cooler

[@ernestthemadhatter-2-274]

I don’t know about it being a myth. Because honestly dude I’ve been drawing, sculpting and various different art forms hell I’m getting into tattooing recently now (mostly because that has always been the dream). But I also tend to have some self destructive features to my personality also. It doesn’t always have to be as negative as I mean this in a reapectful way (you normies) tend to take it. Like I love you guys trying to make us healthier but can you keep that self righteousness trying to tell others how to live there lives and enjoy as long as we aren’t out here actually harming others and keeping that pain inside. It’s not hurting anyone else. And if it hurts the people close to us. It’s just going to have to. The same way it breaks my heart to watch most people follow a system that has been leaving us all broken since the start.

[@kiwitrainguy]

Nice twist at the end of your comment.

[@ernestthemadhatter-2-274]

Self destructive artist: plays chest. Because chest is now art.

[@MrZemme]

You missed a chance to bring up the "creatives" (I hate that word) of ye olden times. The tragic artist is a maniac idea is a product of a decayed Romanticism and simply did not exist before circa 1850. We are the product of that decadent era and should shed it as fast as we can.

[@s.sradon9782]

I think this video is kinda stupid since it starts it's investigation from the arse end by examining the social phenomenon, mixing up correlation and causation while looking at the hollywood parody of the effect. It's the struggle that causes a master to become and it is the struggle that causes the weaker mind to cave into self-destruction. What am I writing? Hell I don't even know how I've ended up arguing in a comments section, it's 5am. Apologies to the reader.

[@LlamaWarriorMan]

Bruh. You're kind of full of shit.... you said that artists didn't do significant work when in their depression and hard substance use... First off... you don't know these artists... you don't know their minds and their procedure of art... Also... bruh I make music... I'm not a famous musician, but music has been an outlet... my best art has been from extreme pain... which also essentially triggers more use... my music has been a way for me to turn my negative feelings into something positive... It's like: without that negative experience, this piece of art wouldn't exist... it feels great to turn pain into art/music... and without trauma, it can be harder to create music... because music is an outlet... if you're all joyful and happy, it's harder to create music.... Pain gives content for music creation.. nobody wants darkness... but hella great art/music would never exist without the darkness.

[@curtissjamesd]

Master works is a scam, please don't invest your hard earned money into this nonsense

[@BlueGlassesVIDS]

Wow. This video essay was so bad, it made me unsubscribe.

[@storytellers1]

What did you not like? And which video did made you subscribe?