Why Do We Love The Phoenix Hawk IIC?

[@MechanicalFrog]

Thank you to Tuppy and BigRed for helping out in today's video. Check them out! BigRed 40Tech - www.youtube.com/@BigRed40TECH TuppyTheDucky! - www.twitch.tv/tuppytheducky

[@blah007001]

I'm surprised that Blood Spirit technicians can afford to drink. Or that they trusted anyone else to drink with them.

[@MechanicalFrog]

Always drinking something...

[@dynamicworlds1]

Rocket Propellent 1 is ethenol which is also one of the fuel options for ICE engines in Battletech. If you get said engines (rocket or ICE) running ever so slightly more efficiently than standard, that translates to a LOT of drunkenness if desired. Not the tastiest way to get drunk, but a cheap way to get drunk.

[@dwwolf4636]

​@@MechanicalFrogCharger IIC. Murder mittens. Convince me otherwise.....

[@scytheseven9173]

This video is ridiculous. I love it!

[@MechanicalFrog]

The nonsense must flow.

[@BigRed40TECH]

I'd probably say for myself, my favourite Phoenix Hawk IIC has got to be the Phoenix Hawk IIC 9, or the Phoenix Hawk IIC 3.

[@MechanicalFrog]

The 9 is an interesting compromise, and the IIC3 will eat mechs up if you let it.

[@meshuggahshirt]

The Clans can make many things better than the Inner Sphere, but a decent scotch is not one of them.

[@tuppytheducky]

You dare dispute audio files so clearly demonstrating the creation of a battletech? That I definitely had no hand in creating at all.

[@MechanicalFrog]

The evidence appears to be conclusive...

[@dubuyajay9964]

​@@MechanicalFrogExcept excessive use of very un-clanlike contractions. Next time you try to bootleg, try to do a better job copying the source, quiaff? 🙄

[@MechanicalFrog]

Written without contractions and I just re-listened to it and don't hear any. I'm starting to worry that people don't know what a contraction is.

[@prime3967]

Man this iic content is REALLY making me want to paint some clan mechs

[@MechanicalFrog]

**Mission Accomplished**

[@prime3967]

@@MechanicalFrog used some of my is mechs as proxies for some iics and god these are fun

[@defiantmechwarrior2397]

HECK YEAH COLAB

[@MechanicalFrog]

Huzzah!

[@crazytiger800]

My favorite is the Phoenix Hawk IIC 2. 4 LRM/20s is enough to emulate the dreaded Macross Missile Massacre, and god save the poor asshole who thinks about trying to corner it. Since Clan LRMs doesn't have a minimum range, it can vomit a stream of missiles point blank. Imma snatch one from Clan Sea Fox for my Merc company, luckily that Sea Fox Premium Member's Card comes in handy every now and then. Huge fan of the Victor Musical Industries's Macross-style art, which is mainly the main reason I even play BattleTech nowadays. Anime-haters be damned.

[@tuppytheducky]

And because the mech is agile, good luck getting out of range of it.

[@MechanicalFrog]

25 for the price of 24. This weekend only!

[@baker90338]

@@MechanicalFroghey don’t knock it, those fellas also know how to make some DARN fine MRE’s as well, and their deodorants are miraculous.

[@MechanicalFrog]

I can't eat more than 4 or 5 of the deodorant sticks without feeling sick.

[@hakonsgaming535]

The IIc 10 is definitely my favorite, it's like someone looked at a charger and said "yeah, but lets actually do something with all that weight and mobility" I feel like you could downgrade some of the energy weapons, and maybe even swap it to a pulse laser build with less range and more heatsinks and upgrade it to TSM to really lean into the madness. Just charge in and start hacking down mechs, jump the front line and go to town on support units, stomp backline arty, whatever.

[@MechanicalFrog]

It could definitely ruin someone's day if you can get close.

[@jeremysaklad6703]

Whenever I see energy and melee weapons I'm disappointed if there isn't TSM.

[@Dang_Near_Fed_Up]

I definitely need to have a look at this mech, though to me this mech feels more like a Hatchetman on steroids, or an Axeman IIC, more than a Phoenix Hawk. If it has the slots for the TSM it should most definitely be used when you field any kind of melee weapon, the increased damage and speed is just too valuable for a melee brawler.

[@jamesbeard5513]

I love the IIC 10 variant, then again I have a soft spot for energy based mechs. The only way to really improve it would be to put TSM inside. Love that it came from pirates and that Sea Fox looked at it going "Hmm, that works," copy and sell it to others is awesome.

[@MechanicalFrog]

It's one I need to try out. Hatchets make everything more interesting.

[@devianttoast5828]

@@MechanicalFrog If there was ever a IIC to need a hatchet, I'd give it tot he PH. Improved jets, TSM, hatchet, medium or small pulse fusilade.

[@angryscotsman93]

Combine TSM and MASC (you can do that, right? I'm still new to tabletop BT). Tickle'em with the lasers to get good'n'toasty, then punch the MASC. Watch with glee as your 80-ton assault 'mech rockets across the battlefield at Firemoth speeds and tears an Atlas in half with its bare hands

[@jamesbeard5513]

@@angryscotsman93 No, you can't combine TSM and MASC as both alter the myomer of a mech. You can, however, combine TSM or MASC with a Supercharger, which basically powers up the engine to do what MASC does.

[@devianttoast5828]

@@angryscotsman93 Sadly, no, you cannot combine TSM and MASC. However, you CAN put an Overcharger with TSM, which is effectively the same thing, sort of? But yes, gratuitous over-optimization for Melee is best strategy, regardless of actual outcome or optimization. I say this from atop the shoulders of my 109 kph fisticuffs Banshee with twin large lasers, battle-fist modifications and spall-liner armor.

[@jonbezeau3124]

I've had the chance to have someone bring one of these out on the tabletop in the original flavour. The one thing this mech has going for it is annoyance value, between the range and ammo on those UAC10s and persistently high defensive modifiers from jumping or running. In that respect I can play it like a classic Phoenix Hawk for (on a lucky round) five times the effect. The ERPPC/Small Pulse variant is actually my favourite, you never want Clan ERPPCs hitting you, and all those small lasers can really grind salt in the wound if you have an armour breach.

[@MechanicalFrog]

It can absolutely hit above expectations if not kept in check.

[@mistformsquirrel]

The only addition to the proposed Phoenix Hawk IIC design lore presented is, the whole thing has to have been done on a bet. Engineer is drunk and someone nearby proposed an 80 ton Phoenix Hawk as a joke; and he's like "I'll take that bet..."

[@MechanicalFrog]

They could do it... but should they? "Yes."

[@DIEGhostfish]

I only liked it with the original art where I thought the back jumpjets were flip-down shoulder mounted ACs

[@MechanicalFrog]

You can still imagine it. :D

[@MrDmitriRavenoff]

The original varient reminds me of the Charger. Like WTF were they thinking? I actually used this as a "Boss Fight" mech for a campaign once for a campaign. It was at the end of a rather long mission and my players mechs had already fought elementals and lighter mechs. Only reason I used it was because it was one of the crappier clan assault mechs. It got wrecked, but was hard to hit. CT core meant no salvage though.

[@MechanicalFrog]

It sure is something.

[@NRSGuardian]

If you factor in the Vapor Eagle 6 and Phoenix Hawk C, it seems like the Steel Vipers like fast, agile Mechs with UACs in the side torsos, and decided with the Phoenix Hawk IIC to up their game into the Assault Mech category. I like the Phoenix Hawk IIC 7 and 10 the most.

[@sharlin648]

The PHawk IIC is at first glance an odd duck, fast and agile for its size and seemingly undergunned, but if you're lucky with the standard version you can still slap 40 points of armour off someone. Thats what a standard Annihilator can do with its AC-10's. These things, when they hit, hit very hard, as you said the ATM one is ferocious. Yes its a sandblaster but if it gets into HE missile range, it can delete or cripple anything with some good missile roles. Laughed aloud at the wine aunt comment, it sounded like something Lazer Pig would say :) As always, superb video :)

[@MechanicalFrog]

It can definitely ruin someone's day.

[@schitify]

I had a player in one of my older campaigns (MechWarrior 2nd Ed) use a phoenix hawk IIC-3 which was a scary strong mech to fight.

[@MechanicalFrog]

It'll eat a mech if you let it.

[@matagy]

that Hatchet one looks like a LOT of fun!

[@MechanicalFrog]

Fact Check: True

[@fenny1578]

You really could say the fans of this design really do give a Phawk.

[@dubuyajay9964]

Meowth...dat's rite!

[@MechanicalFrog]

I appreciate this.

[@johnwiebe8581]

A bit late to the party for this mech review but here is my take on the Phoenix Hawk IIC: Phoenix Hawk 2Tru Prime Mass: 55 tons Tech Base: Clan Chassis Config: Biped Rules Level: Tournament Legal Era: Clan Invasion Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-E Production Year: 3070 Cost: 13,224,290 C-Bills Battle Value: 2,288 Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel Power Plant: Unknown 330 Fusion XL Engine Walking Speed: 64.80000000000001 km/h Maximum Speed: 97.2 km/h Jump Jets: Unknown Jump Capacity: 180 meters Armor: Unknown Ferro-Fibrous Armament: 1 ER Large Laser 1 Plasma Cannon 2 Medium Pulse Lasers 1 Anti-Missile System 1 ECM Suite 1 Active Probe Manufacturer: Unknown Primary Factory: Unknown Communications System: Unknown Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown ================================================================================ Equipment Type Rating Mass -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Internal Structure: Endo-Steel 91 points 3.00 Internal Locations: 2 LT, 2 RT, 2 LA, 1 RA Engine: XL Fusion Engine 330 12.50 Walking MP: 6 Running MP: 9 Jumping MP: 6 Standard Jump Jet Locations: 2 CT, 2 LL, 2 RL 3.00 Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 14(28) 4.00 Heat Sink Locations: 1 RT Gyro: Standard 4.00 Cockpit: Standard 3.00 Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA+H R: SH+UA+LA+H Armor: Ferro-Fibrous AV - 185 10.00 Armor Locations: 2 LT, 2 RT, 2 LA, 1 RA CASE Locations: RT 0.00 Internal Armor Structure Factor Head 3 9 Center Torso 18 27 Center Torso (rear) 9 L/R Torso 13 20 L/R Torso (rear) 6 L/R Arm 9 18 L/R Leg 13 26 ================================================================================ Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ER Large Laser RA 12 1 4.00 Plasma Cannon LA 7 1 3.00 ECM Suite RT 0 1 1.00 2 Medium Pulse Lasers LT 8 2 4.00 Active Probe LT 0 1 1.00 Anti-Missile System HD 1 1 0.50 @Plasma Cannon (10) LA - 1 1.00 @Anti-Missile System (24) RT - 1 1.00 Free Critical Slots: 12 BattleForce Statistics MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 6 Points: 23 6j 4 4 2 0 2 0 Structure: 3 Special Abilities: AMS, ECM, PRB, RCN, ENE, HT1, SRCH, ES, SOA

[@FMPhoenixHawk]

Yay the other me! Well, the current frame I’m living in. Also, kind of did the ER Large thing. 2 ER Large, 2 Medium Pulse, LRM10 w 2 tons of ammo and a UAC/5 with 2 tons of ammo. Also near max armor with Endo steel and Ferro Fibrous armor. Yeah, I think it was maybe going to someone important when we snagged it from the Falcons. It had no weapons, so my stuff snuggled right in, along with the shiny new UAC5.

[@malusignatius]

I mean, the Phoenix Hawk is my favourite 'mech, so I'm biased towards it's chunkier Clan descendant on those grounds, but it's also proof of the adage 'If it's stupid but it works, it isn't stupid'. It shouldn't work, but it does. Particularly if zell is off the table and you can get some punches in.

[@MechanicalFrog]

It's a wildcard mech, in ways that the Hunchback IIC wishes it could be, and I appreciate that.

[@Beowulf-sn8ir]

Proof that a bad (or maybe just weird depending on your point of view) idea can be made workable if you throw enough tech at it. The idea of a highly mobile assault class battlemech finally realized, but it seems a bit like forcing a square peg through a round hole if you ask me.

[@MechanicalFrog]

There may be better, lighter mechs, that can accomplish the same goal.

[@nukenuked5749]

cheers mate for a top new lore video btw loving the remberance read at the start mate love it

[@MechanicalFrog]

Thank ya thank ya

[@cjsutherland2448]

The IIc-2 variant is my favorite. It can contribute to the fight at every range. Most support mechs suffer when you close the range. The IIC-2 just grins, jumps, hits you with a withering salvo of missiles to the face (or that juicy rear torso), and if that did not put your mech on the ground the 16 point kick will likely finish the job (once the clans get over their squeamishness about getting physical). City fight I had 2 of these lobbing 8 LRM20s indirect to good affect. They sent some medium skirmishers to deal with the supposed 'support' units. They were not prepared for the pair of 80 ton jumping mechs absolutely mauling them. Fun times.

[@MechanicalFrog]

It can just be a wildcard. I can appreciate that in a mech.

[@theangryMD]

my favorite battletech channel, with a new entry in a series and format i'm really digging? yes please. this is the first i'm learning that the 2C Pixie is an assault mech and a menace.

[@MechanicalFrog]

Good times had by all. Thanks for coming by!

[@DIEGhostfish]

The Thiccxie

[@greysonjones5429]

Oh man, i kinda wanna add this to my mercenary battalion. I have 1 and 1/2 lances that i need to organize so... Maybe ill got out of my sag to procure a Pheonix Hawk IIC, especially for when im playing Ilclan. I mean, i already have the Hatchetman, Axman, and Nightsky. Might as well get another hatchet wielder. Also, the Pheonix Hawk IIC really strikes me as more of an Exterminator IIC. Fast, heavy armor, headbunter role, and a little under-armed for its weight. Either way, great video!

[@MechanicalFrog]

It's a wild one. Especially that ver.10.

[@zacharydevokaitis99]

As a fan of both the Goliath Scorpions/Scorpion Empire and Clan Star Adder, I had try out the III for the heavy laser love, and it worked surprisingly well. Almost caused it to overheat when I got greedy and decided to melt a Stormcrow to show dominance and leave myself open to his Summoner Prime buddy

[@timebrain3188]

So that's where all the weight from the Griffin went... plus some cake. Never heard of this one, quite interesting

[@dubuyajay9964]

A joke mech that is actually dangerous in the hands of a person that knows what they are doing. Like Dan Hibiki.

[@MechanicalFrog]

It's a fun wildcard.

[@drewgilbertson]

That last bit of color art makes me wany to yell out something about "Mech Justice" before punching an Atlas in the face.

[@justincase9282]

It is such a ridiculous mech, I am always entertained when it is fielded. I found out about the - 4 during clickytech, and I've been a fan of the knife fighting potential ever since.

[@MechanicalFrog]

It's definitely a wildcard.

[@tripwire31]

The Phoenix Hawk IIC got my love when I randomly decided to try it. Then I realized it was pretty much the clan Charger and fell in love with the design. Now the prime, 2, and 10 are probably my favorites. I'm not too big on the 7 or 9 because it's very...busted from what I have fought. Still it's a fun design that will hopefully be going to my Nova Cats.

[@kaisiegfried425]

The First Time I Heard about the Pheonix Hwak IIC was when i read Flight of the Falken (or Der Flug des Falken in my Native Languege) . The scene were Paule Laveau that Crazy Loki agent Knave of Hearts who was Trained by the Legend Cassie Southorn, Sneaking up on that Dezgra Falcon Pilot and Hijacking his Mashine. Was Glorious but because of that i cant take that Mech Serious especialy as the Falcons had Given Him the Partial Wing and Foot claw Treatment.

[@MechanicalFrog]

It can definitely surprise and overperform.

[@kaisiegfried425]

I would hope so, the falcon version had the equipment of the Phoenix Hawk IIC one but it seems that they put partial wings and claw's on it. Would that be technically a new version then and as I'm not so familiar with the rules for this what would they change for that upgrade while still keeping the weapons load?

[@strcmdrbookwyrm]

I'll admit I was a bit nervous about the P-Hawk IIC at first. Almost doubling your tonnage doesn't seem like the way to go if your trying to make a second generation of a battlemech with the same roll. But it works, and all the loadouts certainly sound cool. (Also knowing that IRL this mech's stats were assigned to it rather than being designed for it from the start does help ease the transition. Thanks for sending the link to the blog a few videos ago) Though as I was watching the video, I had the thought: "You know, this is what the Charger should have/could have been." So, question for all you readers: How would you design a Charger IIC? Brownie points if you can make it 10-15 tons lighter than the original charger. ; )

[@MechanicalFrog]

Pack it with explosives and Inferno ammo. Point toward enemy.

[@strcmdrbookwyrm]

Cowabunga it is!@@MechanicalFrog

[@thecuriousanthropologist]

This is a fascinating designabout which I haven't formed a final opinion yet. It is a fascinating concept, though.

[@MechanicalFrog]

It definitely begs for testing.

[@pippykins7707]

I can just imaganie one drunk tech arguing "look, i know we should know better about 80t scouts cause of the charger... But hear me out!"

[@cobalt968]

The Hatchet hawk is definitely going to be a feared sight on the battlefield. I already focus fire on the few melee-based phoenix hawk variants in MW5 when I see them. Upgrading that to 80 tons’ worth of myomer to back up that hatchet, plus clantech for a modest reduction in speed sounds like a bargain.

[@MechanicalFrog]

It'll ruin someone's day.

[@dubuyajay9964]

01:28. No flamers? 03:45. My favorite mount. Warhammer IIC4. Just wish it had flamers instead of ER Small Lasers.

[@MechanicalFrog]

AMF - Always More Flamers

[@keebbles]

Two RAC 2 heavies or a pair RAC 5s would work, free up tonnage for arm weapons too. One Ultra 20 with 5 tons ammo. Rest into weapon mounts and recoil compensators. 2 ER large laser in head and CT, respectively for long range. DHS a must in this build and no room for XL or Light engines. So spam weapons for CQ would be awesome for when UAC jams. And you know it will. 8 ER smalls could be used for that. Or even more micro laser arrays. I'd call this the Phoenix Hawk IIC Rave/Disco Ball. Just the number of dice rolls needed in a CQ attack would make opponents wince and judge cry. Thing is you'd have spare tonnage left. So why not tsm, enhanced actuators and axes, swords, or a mace with spikes too?😊

[@lucendacier6851]

Good video as always! I'd heard that the PHawk IIC was upscaled to 80 tons because the Clans were still following the SLDF design philosophy, that the commander needs to be in the biggest unit. And Phawks are usually for the commander of a scout lance. Though I'd be happier if they were honest and called this thing the Charger IIC. Let's be honest, the Vapor Eagle/Goshawk is spiritually more of a Clan-ified Phoenix Hawk than this brawler.

[@MechanicalFrog]

Between the Vapor Eagle, Shadow Hawk IIC, and Griffin IIC, and HellHound, that medium bracket is full of good options.

[@Bluehairedgirl89]

(Thank you very much for all the effort you put into this video, I enjoyed it. I am genuinely in love with the Phoenix Hawk IIC X, it had a lot of what in love in a mech all in one package. I need to get my hands on one and try it out!)

[@MechanicalFrog]

Glad you enjoyed it! It's a fun one.

[@Bluehairedgirl89]

@@MechanicalFrog Yeap yeap and thank you for responding to me.

[@MechanicalFrog]

Of course! Have a great weekend!

[@Bluehairedgirl89]

@@MechanicalFrog you to!

[@MrMorphine482]

I took a IIC-10 once and decided to add TSM and Talons to the feet in exchange for downgrading and removing a couple lasers and the Hatchet. Kicks at 25 damage a pop were insane.

[@MechanicalFrog]

That would be terrifying.

[@tehpw7574]

@@MechanicalFrog That's just a Tuesday to any JF or HH mechwarrior in the late Dark Age...

[@jeremysaklad6703]

​The Jade Hawk is a better starting point for that, yeah. I have a custom 100-ton design I call the Harrier, which does 60 damage per kick while under TSM. 3/5/6 movement, which actually beats most configurations of the Phoenix Hawk IIC over difficult terrain. It's especially nasty with the Melee Master SPA.

[@jasonhenninger8220]

XL 4/6/4 , Endo, 15.5t standard armor. Supercharger, 19 DHS, 2 ERPPCs, 4 Md PLasers, L-AMS. NOVA CEWS, targeting computer. (BV2 3781)

[@MechanicalFrog]

That could work.

[@gregkun1]

I modify my Phoenix Hawk IIC to fit the theme of a certain mecha anime. With HAG 20 in the LA, 2x LRM15's in LT&RT with Swarm Ammo, 2x Streak SRM 4's in the CT & RA, and a small cockpit to fit 2x ER Small Lasers in the HD. :P It's not bad. Heat is 26/24.

[@MechanicalFrog]

Sounds fun.

[@kevinjheath]

It answers to VF-1J

[@Brigand231]

I am slowly becoming a fan of those little AP Gauss Rifles.

[@MechanicalFrog]

Striking fear in the hearts of ground-pounders.

[@mathewkelly9968]

The ATM 9s on the 4 are an upgrade this time , and you can brawl with them the big bangers potentially give you 108 damage

[@MechanicalFrog]

Yeah that variant can be nasty.

[@PragianAlliance]

I think you might have missed the role of 9 variant. The unit is more than just fire support, its mobile enough to be a heavy skirmisher and brutal duelist. With 8 jump it can outmaneuver anything that is more powerful/dangerous, and its speed gives it considerable durability on its own. Nobody is getting a good shot in on a guy who just jumped 240 meters in their medium/long range bands. Meanwhile they got a pair of ERPPCs headed their way that can kill their pilot. I cannot think of a mech I'd rather use in our Solaris nights, its a real flashy piece for that incalcuably expensive XXL 400

[@PragianAlliance]

Ofc the IIC 8, misclick!

[@MechanicalFrog]

Perhaps. I just can't see it working most of the time.

[@kathilmechworks4895]

Heh love the designers board room audio, I can imagine it going like that as the Phoenix Hawk IIC does feel like utter insanity. Granted though from having played it it is one heck of a cavalry mech. Has the firepower of a couple of favorites such as the Word of Blakes Legacy and the later clan Cygnus. Can surprisingly hit really hard with those ultras provided they don't jam. Big fan of the ATM version as well. Something about the 108 damage volley of HE rounds on a pretty mobile chassis. Seen what a savage coyote can do with those on a slow chassis. The pack its in is one of the most I'm looking forward to in the new kickstarter.

[@bthsr7113]

I think the best answer is that they went "How do we fix the Charger?" Then realized that calling anything the Charger IIC or even letting people think this new "Matador" was based on the Charger would be the design's death sentence, given the general despising of the Charger. But by calling the Charger successor a Phoenix Hawk successor, they move units. Lots of them.

[@MechanicalFrog]

I think perhaps they just didn't want to deal with trying to fix the rep on that heap.

[@kathilmechworks4895]

Best not to deal with the charger reputation much the the Hatamoto chi, just call it something else.

[@bthsr7113]

@@kathilmechworks4895 Or "why I have never heard of mech called the day-boo-kuh, this is a Mauler!"

[@lexington476]

4:37 wait a minute 😊, pirates using a Clan second line assuat mech 😮? Now I'm picturing captain Jack Sparrow piloting a Phoenix Hawk IIC 😎. I'm picturing a boss battle, what skill level do you think Jack Sparrow would be in BT 😀? 0/0 or 5/6 🙂?

[@MechanicalFrog]

The IlClan era is a wild place.

[@bthsr7113]

Depends on the day and the sobriety level.

[@sim.frischh9781]

The Phoenix Hawk IIC was, in my opinion, THE best looking mech in it´s original TRO, and i still like it, the Project Phoenix version looks good too. Newest iteration is the first that really looks like something that could possible be 80 tons in weight, but it lost a bit in aesthetics. Personally i think both the I and II variant are solid, yet my personal build would be: 3 Clan Large Pulse Lasers in the torso, 6 Clan ER Small Lasers, a Clan Targeting Computer to make them all more accurate, one more ton of armor and the rest of tonnage in Double Heat Sinks.

[@MechanicalFrog]

The newest art feels a bit, clunky for my tastes but I understand they wanted to move to a more realistic portrayal. It's hard to beat that original 3055 pose.

[@sim.frischh9781]

@@MechanicalFrogYes, the original is pure energy XD What do you think of my build? Sensible? Or too over the top?

[@MechanicalFrog]

So long as you have the heatsinks to keep rotating the LPLs, it would be solid.

[@sim.frischh9781]

@@MechanicalFrogi sadly lack a good builder since REMLabs got busted, but you should at least be able to 3-3-2 them without serious issue.

[@MechanicalFrog]

I build in MegaMek these days.

[@Tatsu_of_Liao]

Good job!

[@MechanicalFrog]

Thank you! Cheers!

[@haileysaint5443]

I happen to like the Standard, 7, 8, and 10 models of the Phoenix Hawk IIC. Especially the 10. My Phoenix Hawk IIC ISM variant drops all of the weapons of the 10, sans the hatchet, in favor of a pair of Improved Heavy Large Lasers. It also has a Targeting Computer, partial-wing, an IS Compact Gyro, IS Triple-Strength Myomer, and 12.5 tons of armor. Standard Jump Jets only.

[@haileysaint5443]

It also drops 2 Double Heat Sinks.

[@kaisiegfried425]

Also if you ever plan on going deeper into the Dark Age Novels could you Talk about the use of Modivied Industriel Mechs. I allways had to laugh when older members of the Hobby scoffed at it as unrealistic. But it makes super sens if you look at war zones with Limited Production capability or Third world Countrys Today. There will always be a Toyota Pickup Truck with ZPU anti Air gun on the Back and the RCL-4M-B MiningMech MOD is Just Battletechs version of it. Also Patriots stand is an Awesome Book with lots of Battletechs version of the Modivied Toyota.

[@MechanicalFrog]

There be dragons there...

[@kaisiegfried425]

@@MechanicalFrog The map has to be fild out i hope.

[@manwiththemachinegun]

I look at this Clan abomination and think to myself, "they massacred my boy."

[@MechanicalFrog]

Hah! Well, look into the Vixen. It's basically a real Phoenix Hawk IIC.

[@franksmedley7372]

Hello Frog. I tend to agree with some of the other commentors. The Phoenix Hawk IIC x is dangerous, and would be more dangerous with TSM added to the design. This is why when I field that altered Mech, I designate it as: Phoenix Hawk IIC X IS (IS being a designator for 'Inner Sphere' variant). The ability to leap 8 hexes AND swing away with that hatchet is very threatening, and to boost that damage done by the addition of TSM is usually a surprise to my opponents. Or, at least those that are not familiar with my penchant for 'tinkering' with various Mechs. Call it 'min-maxing', or whatever you want... I call it 'tactically sound'.

[@MechanicalFrog]

Even more zoomies.

[@JadeHarpy]

@1:00 CONTRACTIONS, SURATS

[@MechanicalFrog]

I hear exactly one case which might be misinterpreted as a contraction because of how quickly I and am were pushed together. Other than that, please tell me where the contractions were used. I feel like i'm being gaslighted here or no one actually knows what a contraction is.

[@WolfHreda]

Phoenix Hawk IIC: Because nobody takes the name _Charger_ seriously. 7:15 I bet that thing runs a lot cooler than my 4x ATM-9 Cauldron-Born.

[@MechanicalFrog]

That CB just has all the missiles...

[@Bolththrower]

Oh boy.. Don't let the clan warriors hear that recording. They'd have a heart attack over all of those contractions.

[@dubuyajay9964]

^ Aff...calling bs due to all the contractions. The counterfeiters were not even trying. 🙄

[@MechanicalFrog]

I wrote it without any, recorded it without any, and just relistened to it again and didn't hear a single contraction...

[@HeadHunterSix]

@@MechanicalFrog I think they do not understand what "contraction" means. I was specifically listening for them and didn't hear any, either.

[@MechanicalFrog]

*confused screaming*

[@AnimeSunglasses]

@@dubuyajay9964 I am very curious where do you think the contractions are in that passage...

[@BlackjackMC1]

Hmmm... I wonder if the Phoenix Hawk IIC X can fit TSM. :D

[@spencerjones841]

A mech that probably could use endosteel instead of its Ferro-Fiberious to gain 4 tons of standard armor since 14.5 tons is a good amount more protection

[@MechanicalFrog]

Possibly.

[@jefffreese947]

Phoenix Hawk IIC reinforced what I thought with the "inefficient" tonnage/movement combinations - you need to utilize the "pure clan cheese" weapons (primarily energy & LRM's) when you're devoting that much tonnage to movement.

[@MechanicalFrog]

Just a little drop in engine size would go a long way.

[@devianttoast5828]

@@MechanicalFrog LIterally the Charger and Banshee treatment. Drop to 64.8 kph, use the new tonnage for more secondaries while keeping the twin UAC's.

[@jefffreese947]

@@devianttoast5828 And if you feel the need, run MASC or Supercharger for burst mobility when needed.

[@devianttoast5828]

@@jefffreese947 Or, hear me out, TSM, a supercharger, and a big honkin' hatchet.

[@Ironclockwork]

The Phoenix Hawk IIC has instigated a massive amount of double-take whenever I see it, especially considering how much I used the Inner Sphere variant in the Battletech computer game. Of course, it shouldn't come as any surprise as to how little the Phoenix Hawk IIC resembles its predecessor when you read from Ashley Watkins' blogposts that what was originally submitted as a 'Mech known as the "Matador" for the TRO:3055 was suddenly shoehorned by FASA into becoming the IS Phoenix Hawk's chunkier and meaner younger sibkin. "Congratulations, 'Mech, you're a PHOENIX HAWK now!" "But, but... I'm a Matador..."

[@MechanicalFrog]

"Here, put on this coat of feathers. You're a bird now."

[@ghoulbuster1]

I love HAGs and they should be added to every mech, even lights!

[@jeremysaklad6703]

What, like a Hollander?

[@MechanicalFrog]

Do you work for the HAG factory?

[@A88mph]

Is it safe to say that "We love the IIC's" because they are the classic designs, but better?

[@MechanicalFrog]

Sometimes.

[@bthsr7113]

Generally. Some aren't that much better, or are dubious in thematic connection to the original. Overall though, they tend to be impressive enhancements of classics. Though for the Urbie, I prefer the IS approach of LB10-X Autocannon and Small Pulse Laser over UAC-10 and ER Small Laser.

[@HeadHunterSix]

I don't know that the original Phoenix Hawk really _needed_ to be better. It's already a pretty exceptional 'Mech.

[@bthsr7113]

I hate that this is said to be the Clan's successor to the Phoenix Hawk, but I guess I'm gaining an appreciation for this mech as its own instrument of war. I'd probably go with the 2 for indirect shoot and scoot or 10 for medium range with a brawling backup.

[@MechanicalFrog]

I think it's best to really see it as its own thing.

[@thestabbybrit4798]

This Mech feels more like a Charger IIC to me.

[@MechanicalFrog]

Charger, but good.

[@bthsr7113]

@@MechanicalFrog A description that also fits the Gargoyle K.

[@HeadHunterSix]

I really like the IV variant. I've always wanted to play with egregious amounts of ATMs and the damage potential is frightening. Yes, it's definitely a 'Mech for headhunting (so naturally, you can see why it appeals to me!)

[@MechanicalFrog]

It can definitely ruin someone's day.

[@JosephMitchell-zw3db]

Love the hatchet model thank you this was great ty to big red to

[@mirrorsandstuff]

I like to think Clan engineers talk that way.

[@MechanicalFrog]

Fits with my engineering friends.

[@lexington476]

YES!

[@MechanicalFrog]

Maybe!

[@lexington476]

@@MechanicalFrog 🤨😢🥳

[@shaunhall960]

Oh! I like the IIC / X! .

[@MechanicalFrog]

Chop chop...

[@krissteel4074]

[Shrieking Charger Noises] They're in a funny place where its not usually carrying much more in terms of firepower than a lot of Heavy mechs or even a particularly violent Medium on a real tear with a point to prove. That and you're also not really an 'Assault mech' either because you'll eat dirt thinking you have anywhere near that kind of armour to soak up the hits But that said, its just all about the getting places and getting into other people's business when they least wanted you doing that. So its a play style you either do and enjoy it or you hate it and spend your 20mil clan neetbux on something else with 18t of armour and enough firepower to wipe out small civilizations.

[@MechanicalFrog]

It's definitely a wildcard mech.

[@HeadHunterSix]

There aren't many 5/8/5 assault 'Mechs out there, and assuming you choose the proper variant for the job and use it as intended, you might not have to worry about soaking hits.

[@biancamitchell-x3f]

Love this one🎉

[@MechanicalFrog]

It's a fun wildcard.

[@Arcalargo]

This is a Charger IIC with a better PR department. Change my mind.

[@robkitchen5344]

Is there room for TSM on the II-C-10? to double the impact of that axe to 32 damage applied to the head hit location chart using a 1d6 ..... .. and why partial cover in water or lvl 1 buildings and land formations like a canal officer lowland hills while facing flat large pulse lasers at range ..near shocked.... Well I'll give that up for chance to Cleve a mechs head off with a 1 swing....not sure with all the power the head is throw several hexes away or leaves it in place minus connections to the rest of the mech so it can be lifted off like a hat.... Their way should uld force a normal save are some modified target to remain on the field or flee in panic ... Ahhh what a book disc story that would e

[@ero9841]

My favorite assualt mech and perfect counter to inner sphere heavy armor spam. With a reasonable bv and hands free to bitch slap spheroids who choose to be dishonorable.

[@MechanicalFrog]

Good times had by all.

[@bthsr7113]

The 9 could be a decent mobile sniper, but even if it doesn't take any meaningful damage, its cost is grossly prohibitive with that XXL engine, and if any of its armor is breached, may Kerensky save your commander's balance sheet.

[@MechanicalFrog]

A repair bill even the Wolves wouldn't enjoy paying.

[@bthsr7113]

@@MechanicalFrog The Mech already costs over 20 million C-Bills in the prime config, so I shudder to imagine what the sticker price for the 9 is.

[@bthsr7113]

Edit: Oops, apparently it's the 8 variant with twin ERPPC and XXL. So that's a little egg on my face.

[@MechanicalFrog]

"How much is it?" >How much you got? @@bthsr7113

[@dubuyajay9964]

RIP LAMs. Killed by the "No Fun Police" in CGL and Topps. 😭

[@MechanicalFrog]

A moment of silence for the LAMs, please. ok.... done.

[@HeadHunterSix]

Bah. This isn't an anime. You can still get your LAM on in the Robotech tabletop games :D

[@dubuyajay9964]

@HeadHunterSix And guess where most if not ALL of the original mechs came from? Japanese anime. Are you sure this is the argument you want to take?

[@HeadHunterSix]

@@dubuyajay9964 So what if they were? We see how well that worked out, for all the trouble it caused. They were never really that well-received except by weebs who didn't have an anime game to play instead. In case you didn't notice, the Battletech setting is definitely _not_ anime. We also don't have wave motion guns, transforming warships, or any of that nonsense. I'm just saying, if you want to play that kind of game, they're out there. But if BT is no fun for you without them, Robotech RPG Tactics may be more your speed.

[@MKmaki6094]

The Phoenix Hawk IIC is probably the one IIC mech that just baffles me as to the intent of its creation. This isn't any jab at it at all, I love all the IIC mechs including our beloved Finnish Hog here, but all of them seem to be remixes and refinements of already well established designs. The PH IIC in the other hand, is turned from a nimble scout commander into a heavy frontline striker. This might also be because in real life, it wasn't supposed to be the Phoenix Hawk in the first place but instead a completely separate mech known as the "Matador." Still, in universe, I find it rather odd that they associated the Phoenix Hawk with such an assault mech, it's like calling a sledgehammer a scalpel

[@MechanicalFrog]

It is a bit of a headscratcher.

[@Dang_Near_Fed_Up]

I see this mech more as a Phoenix Hawk TWO, not IIC. This is more akin to the Nova becoming the Super Nova, than a true IIC build in my opinion. And the variants are so bizarre I don't even recognize it as anything related to the Phoenix Hawk. The IIC is more a Hunchback IIC on steroids or something, and the IIC X is more an Axeman IIC in my mind. It more resembles an upgraded Charger than a Phoenix Hawk, either way it is nightmare fuel for certain.

[@MechanicalFrog]

It's definitely something...

[@atmosdwagon4656]

So...this is basically what the Charger would have been if hit the gym for a year and put all that effort into pure power instead of memes and sadness. I'm going to be brutally honest here: Clan Space Magic is the only thing keeping the Phoenix Hawk IIC from being confined into the same stockade of mockery that the Charger rightly resides in. (seriously; 5 small lasers. On an Assault Mech.) The Clan XL 400 rated engine is the single most expensive mech component there is (until XXL engines appear...more on that later) and all but two variants of the Phoenix Hawk IIC come with them. While I know that Clan Economics is mostly based on a Guild style of production that emphasizes high quality works in order make the most of the component resources consumed, this seems excessive even to me. Won't lie; it looks hella fun to pilot, even if it's a bit like taking the mech equivalent of big Ferrari into battle. My first impression is that this looks like it would actually be a pretty terrifying jump-brawler with those battlefists...except clanners consider mech-fu melee to be highly dishonorable and most of the weapons-configs don't really accommodate this idea at all. (until Dark Age era Jade Falcon started incorporating melee heavily into their mech design and battle philosophy as a allusion to their totemic namesake of falcons, aka, "birds of prey", for striking fast and close...Which becomes patently silly once you realize how this describes the behavior of most of the predatory critters the clans like to name themselves after...but that's a philosophical debate for Clanners to resolve amongst themselves, not me.) Now, for the loadouts... Variant I: The prime configuration is pretty damned scary for a cavalry mech, since it's basically a Charger with firepower appropriate for an assault mech rather than a mech one quarter its tonnage. Variant II is basically the warm-up practice round for Variant 4's ATM-mania so...more on that later. Variant III: Personally I'd still prefer just using Large Pulse Lasers or CER-Large Lasers over Heavy Large Lasers, even if I have to drop some heatsinks to fit them. The heat budgeting and crap accuracy just isn't worth it most of the time. Variant IV: This thing is basically an Ultra-Archer and finally, a GOOD use of ATMs. I badmouthed ATMs before when clanners slapped them onto lighter mechs because of the ATM's relatively poor ammo per ton and not the efficacy of the weapon system itself. Assault mechs have the inverse relationship between free tonnage and Critical Slots per capita, so boating ATMs on an assault mech is actually the best way to showcase their potential. Lo and behold, this variant of the Phoenix Hawk IIC has some ass-blasting firepower at mid to long range. If I had to criticize anything here, it's that ATMs don't completely jive with the fast-juggernaut design of the mech's frame and high speed. Variant V: This mech highlights the biggest problem I have with HAGs, and frankly, any big alpha/low-ammo heavy weapon system in the setting: It's great to build around one or two of them as a "pivot" but not a "boat". For all the Gausszilla-meme builds that excel in limited arena fights/skirmishes like in MWO; they do run out of ammo rather quickly and become big, expensive targets. It's powerful, but not a mech I'd ever want to command my lance from. Variant VI: Overpriced as hell for what it does. If there's any analog for a Clan Charger, this is it. Just a bad mech design. Variant VII: It's like a Clan Hatamoto-Chi with mech-shotgun-cannons instead of PPCs! A pretty solid, practical assault mech actually. No wonder the clans hate it. Variant VIII: If the Phoenix Hawk IIC Prime is a Ferrari, this thing is Vector; An insanely expensive, prototype concept-car (er, mech) with little practical value. The weapons-loadout and speed are FINE, it's just...done better on lighter mech frames because of the horrid power:weight loss vs value as the engines increase, and there's nothing worse than the very maximum there. Looks really fun to run on its own merits because of its excess, but again, completely impractical for warfare. Variant IX: "A hatchet? On a battlemech?! How barbaric!" ~Clan Honor System, probably I would like to close this wall-of-text analysis with one final comment on the Phoenix Hawk IIC: WHY?!?!! Why was this thing made into an assault mech?! The Phoenix Hawk is a GODLY mech in the Succession Wars for its tonnage, its one notable weakness being overloading its arms with most of its firepower. Clanners, you all had the chance to refine that beast into a true battlefield nightmare, and yet, it's the freaking GRIFFIN that ends up doing that job instead of the mech best known for being the premier command mech for scouting/raiding lances. The Phoenix Hawk, more than nearly any other older Hegemony/Star League era mech, was TEEMING with potential to abuse all of those busted Clan internals. But instead of the Clan Battlemech version of the Dragonfly we got 9 Shades of the Clan Charger. Most of the Phoenix Hawk IIC designs are completely functional on their own merits, don't get me wrong. But man. I really wanted to see what a Phoenix Hawk would be if its quality were pushed to the limit like with the Warhammer IIC and Hellhound/Conjurer. (the MW4 Hellhound "reseen" mech is my favorite clan mech, period. It's like a Super-Jenner and super-fun to actually pilot.)

[@floridaman3823]

Think your being a bit harsh on the IX variant, nothing like, "Suddenly, 80 tons behind you!" Flashing on the enemy's HUD.

[@MechanicalFrog]

Maybe.

[@carllewis166]

YOU LEFT OUT THE ==PHOENIX HAWK (LAM)........

[@KenshiImmortalWolf]

My issues with this thing is that it's not a phoenix hawk, It's a Charger cosplaying a phoenix hawk.

[@wraith7989]

This mech is proof that just because you can do something, doesn’t mean you should do it.

[@MechanicalFrog]

Or... that you should do it even harder...

[@wraith7989]

@@MechanicalFrog they should have called it the Charger IIC. Would have made a lot more sense.

[@MechanicalFrog]

Edit: I'm bad at math sometimes.

[@bthsr7113]

@@wraith7989 But then no one would want it. Especially since the Clanners shunned Melee for so long, and that was the one viable selling point of of a Charger. Doesn't matter that this thing could actually be an effective assault class skirmisher/scout/cavalry mech and not just a strike breaking/insurgent stomping/building crashing/populace terrorizing/boxing mech.

[@Dokdiamant]

Thie Mech would be good in an old James Bond Movie. Why? Nipple Weapons! xD

[@MechanicalFrog]

Pew pew...

[@leviathanthetallone8299]

Im Genuinely surprised at how positive this video was I always loved the mech specifically the iii. However I really dislike the cgl redesign as pxh iic is supposed to be a tall and lanky mech like the banshee

[@MechanicalFrog]

I'll try to be more of a catty b**** next time. :D

[@leviathanthetallone8299]

@MechanicalFrog I was just expecting a more negative opinion seeing how you tore the hunchback iic a new one

[@MechanicalFrog]

I have to keep you on your toes. @@leviathanthetallone8299

[@captaingeneralconch]

Going to be honest this is currently the only IIC mech that I don't like ..... both in look and the mech itself it's not phoenix hawk anymore it's just weird for me

[@MechanicalFrog]

I totally get that people are put off by the drastic change.

[@lukedudley5030]

The IIC of a phoenix hawk is a mech that was made after a poor description of the original rather than any real world experience of it...a good mech but not a phoenix hawk really too many ac and not enough lasers...another great overview :-)

[@MechanicalFrog]

Thank ya much. It sure is... something. Definitely a departure from the original.

[@GrozaMariposa]

Out of all the uses for a XXL engine the 8 variant it's the most wasteful of all. Having two ERPPC's doesn't leave enough room for anything secondary nor does it do enough as primary guns. Maybe give a capacitor to one ERPPC and swap the other with 4 er medium lasers and downgrade the small pulse lasers to er smalls. If it's possible add a Bloodhound Probe or just upgrade the ECM with the Angel ECM. Or have both crammed in cause that would be interesting to field. There isn't much options to go with the 8 variant but I feel turning it into a heavy recon mech can make it a bit viable when hunting disgraceful pirates and Inner Sphere forces sneak attacking a base like cowards.

[@MechanicalFrog]

100% agree.

[@owooperator8824]

First rule of piloting a Phoenixhawk...don't pilot a Phoenixhawk

[@MechanicalFrog]

I thought the first rule was to have fun...

[@pippykins7707]

So anyone else look at the 10 and think it's just a little bit of TSM away from perfection?

[@DIEGhostfish]

Aren't HAGs only slightly better range than LRMs? They're cooler yeah but heavier and lower ammo.

[@MechanicalFrog]

It's a bit of a flavor to taste situation.

[@charlesballiet7074]

ok well if no one els is gonna then Im gonna call it. Thats no phoenix hawk 2c thats a charger 2c

[@MechanicalFrog]

*nobody liked that*

[@charlesballiet7074]

@@MechanicalFrog :)

[@robrib2682]

an 80 ton phoenix hawk clan tech is just BS if they can do that

[@MechanicalFrog]

Heh

[@dwwolf4636]

Naww. This is really the clans attempt to make something usefull out of the Charger. Just look at those mittens. You *know* it's made for clobbering time. You can't convince me otherwise.

[@jmoney6102]

This thing sounds terrible! I want 12!

[@MechanicalFrog]

Only 12? What are you on a budget?