Why Do We Love The Shadow Hawk?

Today, we look at the Shadow Hawk in hope of figuring out why it's so darn lovable.
Check out CamoSpecs for great examples of paint schemes from all your favorite battletech units.
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Thank you to Savage Coyote, Tsuge, and KierdaleModels for sharing their amazing work and helping to bring this video to life.
Shadow Hawk 1MF Record Sheet: www.dropbox.co...
References: 3025 TRO, 3039 TRO, 3050 TRO, Field Manual 3145, Project Phoenix TRO, Tukayyid 3rd Ed, Liberation of Terra Vol 2, First Succession War, Primitives TRO Vol 1. IlClan rec Guide 12.
Thank you to Dwane Loose, Anthony Scroggins, Matt Plog, Bishop Steiner, Flying Debris, Alan Blackwell, Chris Lowry, Dale Eadeh, Harri Kallio, Loston Wallace, and all the other BattleTech artists that have brought the IP to life through their amazing work.
BattleTech imagery and mech info remains the property of Topps.
Concept Art from Mechwarrior Online and game art from MW5 is owned by Piranha Games.
Imagery from HBS BattleTech
Some imagery/video from Pixabay
Background Music: Purchased rights to use from Fanatical
#BattleTech #Mechwarrior #CatalystGameLabs #lore

[@MechanicalFrog]

Correction: The Shadow Hawk C has 13 Single Heat Sinks and 5 jump jets. My source was showing incorrect info.

[@MilitaryStyx]

I've found much success in 3025 games taking inferno srms and smoke lrms and treating the shadow hawk as a support mech instead of a brawler or calvary unit

[@sethharpenger607]

I always refit it into an SRM boat with an additional small laser in the energy arm

[@MechanicalFrog]

I'm glad someone has had success with it.

[@kalixascsi66]

Precision or AP ammo for the autocannon also works well

[@MilitaryStyx]

@@kalixascsi66 yes, but those aren't available in 3025. I do use those in the eras they're available though

[@kalixascsi66]

@MilitaryStyx IMO, specialty autocannon ammo not being available in 3025 is a huge oversight and would do a lot to make some Succession Wars-era designs a lot more effective.

[@lordilluminati5836]

the problem with the shadow hawk is that it takes the setting in ernest- it's a design that makes sense in a world where mechs are rare, ancestral machines: it has enough mobility to get anywhere it needs to, the ac/5 is more than enough to deal with most non-mech vehicles and vtols and it's other weapons are good against infantry and light vehicles. it has so many heat sinks in order to prevent the pilot from damaging an irreplaceable piece of kit.

[@rustyshackleford3053]

It's a medium tank. They make incredibly good sense IRL. They're ALWAYS useful as hell. But as soon as you put them into tabletop and video games dominated by heavy tanks... You get let down a bit.

[@OmniMontel]

Also depends a lot on time period.

[@entropy11]

All Lore, no Gore

[@MechanicalFrog]

Yeh, unfortunately, it also loses to lighter tanks.

[@OmniMontel]

The biggest problem is that the AC5 is incredibly inefficient as a weapon damage to weight under base rules. If you drop the AC5 to an AC2, (still a bad weapon but has a niche as as extreme range) and drop a heat sink then replace that weight with an extra lrm5 launcher and an extra medium laser it's still lightly armed at any range but not laughably so. You're also also upping your maximum damage at any given range and keeping your average the same. There's places where you're actually equally dangerous to other common 55 ton mechs of the period. Close range damage goes up to 12 from 7ish long range goes up to 12 from 10, at weird ranges from 8-15 you need to manage heat a bit but not much. You're still ammo heavy but you might actually have the ability to at least burn through all your lrm ammo, are mobile enough that you can possibly get to do that. You also aren't asking for a wasp to close with you because he's got equal guns in close.

[@chrissheffield5468]

Grayson Death Carlyle and Dechan Fraser were not harmed during the making of this motion picture.

[@MechanicalFrog]

Plot armor is powerful.

[@Cobalt-60]

Nor Sandusky Sorrell. IYKYK. 😉

[@rho1581]

If “ I can fix her” was a battlemech design.

[@MechanicalFrog]

Truth.

[@MKmaki6094]

She can ruin my life and my military career

[@rustyshackleford3053]

Everybody wants to drive the Dougram, and god help them they'll make it work.

[@ObiwanNekody]

Heh.

[@milesrost6674]

Love it. Cheers friend!

[@Bomfunker91]

I have a soft spot for the Shadow Hawk 2H. A superbly versatile and capable in-universe design, let down by the mechanics of the tabletop game. A walking testament to the fact that one can be *too* much of a jack-of-all-trades. I have a minor refit I love doing on any SHD-2H's; take out the jump jets and two heat sinks, then add in a second LRM-5, upgrade the SRM-2 to an SRM-4, and add a half-ton of armor. You get a decent ranged combatant and skirmisher, while also letting it fight a little better up close.

[@MechanicalFrog]

I really think the 2H should have had an AC/10.

[@Taurox220]

@@MechanicalFrog that's why the 2Hb is so good.

[@toddcox1942]

No matter what anybody says about optimization, I will always be a dyed in the wool Gun Shoulder Club member.

[@huckjeffrey5057]

The over-the-shoulder bang bang.

[@MechanicalFrog]

A bark possibly worse than the bite.

[@odinulveson9101]

Its the opposite of the Hunchback. Standard variant at least. Hunchie is mainly a east/ right sider, Shawk a west/ left sider

[@huckjeffrey5057]

@@MechanicalFrog I had one that threw an LB10X back there. It was a surprise for those involved. Made a nice little city fighter in Citytech.

[@milesrost6674]

BOOM BOOM!! Cheers!

[@philippauli8162]

​@MechanicalFrog this is why engineers designed the Hunchback. Big boom boom boom on the shoulder.

[@Xynar]

The best advantage of the base Intro Shadow Hawk is that you can spam fire without worry of overheating.

[@MKmaki6094]

Helped me an ok amount of times in HBS BT

[@Taurox220]

Youvalso dont have to worry about killing anything

[@MechanicalFrog]

It's also good at kicking things.

[@DIEGhostfish]

@@MKmaki6094 In HBS the AC-5 deals the equivalent of 9 Tabletop damage (And the 2 deals 5) Plus knockdown is focused on ballistic and missile hits with lasers not contributing and PPCs only contributing a little. So now the AC-5 is actually competitive with the Large laser, doing more damage, at longer range, for less heat. Before it was less damage, more range, less heat, not nearly enough to justify the extra 3 tons of weight. Something like 90% of the time a LL and 3 heatsinks is the better choice. Oh and pilot skills let you ignore the small minimum range penalty relatively early in HBS.

[@gsthomas187]

I understand it has its serious shortfalls, but the Shadow Hawk will always have my heart from the time I managed to use that LRM system to blow off one of my dad's Hunchback's legs, then proceeded to jump and land on the poor thing as a mercy kill. Never gets old.

[@MechanicalFrog]

I'm glad it has its fans.

[@EveryMechAStory]

I love the clanbuster variant, the SHD-2Ht. It always misses its lasers, but it hits well with its 5 SRM-2s. My play group calls it the “Terror of Tukayyid” lol.

[@WolfHreda]

I made one in MWO with 2 medium lasers and 4 SRM-4s. It's called the Splattowhawk, and it's fun.

[@MechanicalFrog]

It's a solid one.

[@DIEGhostfish]

5 Streak 2s were even more terrifying back when ONLY 2-tubes could load inferno, and you could have Streak-Inferno. (This is why all the elemental busters had Streak2s, they were meant to be loaded with Inferno before the rules change.) Allegedly, I wasn't playing back then.

[@Suodemon]

The Comstar variant that uses Medium laser and Streak 2s with a TC to kill Elementals was amazing. So effective the clanners thought every SH was that variant and avoided them.

[@MechanicalFrog]

Yeah that one was unfortunately cut from the video for time. It's solid.

[@sebastiang.5032]

Fang! Of! The! Sun! 😍

[@MechanicalFrog]

Horns of the Moon.

[@BazztheBazz]

NOT EVEN JUSTICE, I WANT TRUTH

[@davidboatwright8688]

Great show, shame its not well known

[@DS-tv2fi]

I was going to make a Dougram reference!

[@Aceman52]

The SHD is overall my favorite battlemech. Very well done.

[@MechanicalFrog]

I'm glad it has its fans! :D

[@robrib2682]

​@@MechanicalFrog if rauslehaug has taught me anything, there will always be hipsters :p

[@77professional]

Pulling those two unneeded heat sinks and replacing the weight with a left arm medium laser and two more jump jets makes such a big improvement it's not even funny. It might even be worth it to pull the SRM 2 and ammo and put it all into armor.

[@WarhawkTalon]

This is my basic refit as well. Even with the drop in heat sinks and the extra laser it's rare to have any serious heat concerns.

[@Kattbirb]

"If I missed your favorite, attribute it to deliberate malice..." I'll do just that, but I won't blame you. My favorite remains the SDH-X2 LAM. Mechs don't have to be good to be fun. ;)

[@MechanicalFrog]

Heh. Fair enough. :D

[@SulliMike23]

One of my personal favorites after using it in MWO. I can see why it’s so popular among fans.

[@MechanicalFrog]

I'm glad it has its fans.

[@L337f33t]

That opening bit is awesome because it gives a bit of in universe information about the mech. They have some of the strongest grasping actuators in their weight class of medium mechs. Grabbing a structural steel beam and using it as a weapon is right in line with what they could do.

[@fenny1578]

"The shadow hawk has never treated me very well." Yes, well. The sky is blue and grass is generaly green. 😔

[@MechanicalFrog]

Well then. :P

[@TsugeSenpai]

I love the Shadow Hawk! I don’t care about any of its faults. It’s a fun design, and will always have a soft spot for me!

[@MechanicalFrog]

I'm glad it has its fans and that it does eventually get good as time passes.

[@TheFezmond]

My favorite Hawk is the SHD-2Ht. The design Comstar used on Tukayyid. 5/8/5 move, standard engine, same armour but 10 double heat sinks. A large laser in the left torso and a medium laser in each arm. 5 streak SRM2 in the right torso sharing 1 tonne of ammo protected by case. Unless several SRMs hit you are heat neutral but that's fine. Always shoot everything. If the SRMs miss no heat. If they hit it's 2 heat for 4 damage. I take that. Also, people always underestimate the Shadowhawk so you might catch them off guard.

[@ambientlight3876]

The Shadowhawk is in competition with the Crusader for my most personal 3025 variants. One variant I'll call the 'AB-1A', pulls out the Autocannon, SRM 2, and LRM 5. A PPC replaces the Autocannon, an SRM 4 replacing the SRM 2, a second medium Laser for the left arm, 2 more jump jets plus two extra tons of armor, for a total of 11.5 tons. This beast is a great sniper and brawler while improving the machine's maneuverability. I've taken down heavies with this variant. The 'AB-2B' is more of a support machine, replacing the LRM 5, SRM 2 and medium laser with a single right arm mounted Large Laser and 2 more jump Jets. Finally the '2C' variant replaces the auto cannon with a large Laser, the SRM 2 with a second LRM 5, and added 2 more jump Jets, an extra ton of armor and 2 more heat sinks. It's a solid competitor to the Griffin trading some ammo and alpha strike capability for added short ranged firepower, heat dissipation and armor. Thoughts? By the way, I really like the MF variant.

[@dakkath414]

I do something pretty similar for my custom 'hawk. AC -> PPC, srm2+lrm5 -> 2x srm4 + 1 ton ammo, +2 JJ, +1 ton armor on the legs and side torsos

[@chrispierceall3627]

Me with every Shadowhawk, "Alright time to make you a close range brawler" It just screams I must punch something.

[@MechanicalFrog]

Agreed.

[@scytheseven9173]

I've found the Shadow Hawk is treated very well by advancing technology, but that original 2H variant is garbo looks great, though!

[@amw5288]

The 2H reminds me of the WW2 Sherman stories: Lights up every time! A guy in our group runs it by dropping all ammo after taking 10 dmg anywhere.

[@odinulveson9101]

Agree. The 2H is WAY to allovertheplace. It is decrnt Lance role filler if someone lack a range bracker or need a PUNCHY mech that can hit above its weight class and can jump decently!

[@ogrehaslayers605]

The first time i had any actual fun with a Shadowhawk, was in the 3050 TRO. That is a beast of a Shadowhawk! Of course, the XL engine made it fragile, but did what it was supposed to do, as a mech.

[@MechanicalFrog]

It really is the first time that the mech is consistently dangerous.

[@ogrehaslayers605]

@@MechanicalFrog I'm currently running one in a Cavalry Level II that is pretty decent and simple. Standard Engine. 5/8/5 Endo Steel CASE 9.5 tons Ferro Fibrous Armor UAC/10 w/ 3 tons ammo RT MD X-Pulse Laser LA 10 Double Heat Sinks. It's a little over sinked, but that lets it upgrade to energy weapons if I decide to change it up ... Or I can jump and alpha without worrying about heat.

[@Kingofdragons117]

I would swap to an LB10X and another medium x pulse and small x pulse.

[@ogrehaslayers605]

@@Kingofdragons117 for Classic Battletech, I agree. But this is for Alpha Strike, and Ultra Autocannons treat me better here lol.

[@mbr5742]

The Griffin in the base variant is not an all rounder. It is a medium weight long range fire support unit with LRM-10 and PPC

[@zarancorde]

My first go in Battletech (mid 90s) was in a 3050 TRO Shadow Hawk! Thanks for the (5/8) walk down memory lane!

[@MechanicalFrog]

Glad you enjoyed it. I'm glad the SH has its fans.

[@odinulveson9101]

Woooop! Thanks!! My fav of the 55 ton siblings, the middle " brother/ sister " 😄 And the taller lefty side friend of Hunchback! Generalist? Sure some variants, some specialists too. Might not be as " tough " as the Wolverine, but the Shawk can really brawl and punch HARD for its weight, if weapon loadout isnt optimal! Can be a decent jumper to with arguably more guns than the Griffin. I dont like that the Shadow Hawk IIc went away with the left side shoulder hardpoint though. Basically. If lacking weapon hardpoints, make the Shawk faster, tougher, jumpier and focus on melee enhancements and if spare room, add a ranged gun or two!

[@MechanicalFrog]

I'm glad it has its fans.

[@nexusofice9135]

SATURDAY MECHFROG! LOVE IT! Your videos are always waiting in the shadows to reveal themselves.

[@MechanicalFrog]

It would have been out yesterday but I caught a cold during the week and I lost a day.

[@Nikotheos]

Best thing in the time slot since Wile E. Coyote!

[@scottmccool7242]

Been a bit now, but I seem to recall in HBS Battletech, it was unexpectedly good at melee for some reason and filled a niche for vehicle stomping for me. In regular AGoAC… not so special.

[@odinulveson9101]

Then make it special! Its not the most fancy or specialised mech but its a solid, trustworthy role filler one! Its always there for you, backing you up in the shadows😶‍🌫️🥷😎

[@MechanicalFrog]

"Good for kicking stuff" oh heck yeah. I think we found the SH's true calling.

[@kalamander8563]

I just joined the battletech community with the AGoAC box. First game i played with my buddy, i had the Shadowhawk. My friend took the Awesome as his Assault of choice. Anyway, my Battlelmaster did 16 points of damage to the Awesome, (10 poijts to the head) and next activation my Shadowhawk missed with everything but the SRM2. TAC with both missles, 2 crists to the engine. He failed his pilot check for taking 20 points of damage in a round, fell over and crumped his head, killing the pilot. So anyway, the Shadowhawk now has a special place in my heart.

[@MechanicalFrog]

I'm glad it performed for you. Welcome to the fray, Mechwarrior.

[@Stlaind]

I feel like I love the idea of the Shadow Hawk far more than the actual mech.

[@MechanicalFrog]

We love the idea of the Shadow Hawk.

[@robertbodov912]

I like using a Shadow Hawk, cause it looks so cute. But I'm still waiting for the moment, when it starts kicking ass as it does in the lore)

[@MechanicalFrog]

Yeah the descriptions in the fiction are always WAY cooler than on the tabletop.

[@odinulveson9101]

I agree its too generalist. I see the Shawk as the glue in units with more specialized mechs. Again some SH variants do are specialist. Like the kuritan ppc one. But the lack of weapon hardpoint... OOF! Well, just have the peppsi or large laser ( ER preferrably ) and add more armor and punchy enhancements!

[@ObiwanNekody]

We like the Shadow hawk for the same reasons we like the dragon. It's great as an initiative sink and damage soak.

[@MechanicalFrog]

Hahaha! Fair enough.

[@elchjol2777]

Warning three hostile lances inbound, Shadow hawks lead by Dragons.

[@MAD-5D-DC]

Amazing as always! Your videos have made BattleTech much more accessible.

[@MechanicalFrog]

Glad to hear that! I want to make sure that they're entertaining for the old guard while still being accessible for new players/fans.

[@leroyottersberg7151]

One way to use the Shadow Hawk is for quick cash to use for something that has better options.

[@RecklessFables]

Even in Alpha Strike the "Weak" jump jets are a liability until you get into much later version in the timeline.

[@barondiamondo6676]

Yeeeah! Best un-optimized medium for universal combat! One of the mech that i love for that its not about power, its about style

[@clarkreamer4560]

It's an absolutely beautiful design

[@MechanicalFrog]

Fair enough.

[@Ruggedtoaster]

You know at first, I was surprised that you didn’t add a plasma rifle to your MF build but honestly I think the hag 20 fits really well

[@MechanicalFrog]

The 8L had me covered on the Plasma Rifle front.

[@georgesulea]

Thanks for this. Never considered The ShadowHawk before, but now I'm going to have to give it a try:)

[@MechanicalFrog]

I wish you luck. Maybe use the 5S.

[@WarhawkTalon]

The Shadow Hawk 2H is a mech that need to be customised in some way. Either by tweaking the loadout to fit the desired purpose better, or by using alternitive ammo for the missiles and AC. I personally like to strip two heat sinks in favor of of two more jumpjets and another laser for the other arm. It's a very simple refit.

[@andresabourin2423]

I LOVE the layout you're using now!

[@MechanicalFrog]

Thanks a lot!

[@flushmastercyclonis186]

"If I miss your favorite, attribute it to deliberate malice on my part." Reverse Hanlon's Razor. MF isn't an idiot, he's just a jerk. Seriously, though, I just recently discovered this channel upon getting back into the Battletech universe after a long time away from it's special flavor of glorious nonsense. I'm still checking out the various content creators in this fandom, but I specifically checked you out after hearing Tex from the Black Pants Legion speak highly of you. I've been listening to a bunch of these rundowns as background entertainment while doing the less cerebrally intensive tasks I have at work for the past week. Thank you for the material and please keep it up.

[@MechanicalFrog]

Yeah that MechFrog guy is the worst. Thanks a lot for giving the channel a go. Welcome back to the fray, Mechwarrior.

[@irongiant6112]

in just messing around with megamek, if upgrading the 2H I'd just knock the jump jets and SRM-2 out, and add a medium laser to the other arm and an extra LRM-5, it also gains 1/2 ton of armor, say its a command/light fire support mech. command with a side of sniper, or just remove everything except the jump and the medium laser and add a AC10, and 2 tons of ammo, or just have 10 shots and 2 medium lasers.

[@MechanicalFrog]

Sounds like good fixes.

[@irongiant6112]

@@MechanicalFrogI also did an alt take on the MF variant, clan gauss rifle with 2 tons ammo, SRM4 with 1 ton, and 2 ER medium lasers(1 in each arm), and a ER small in the right arm to shoot birds, all ammo in the right torso protected by clan case II

[@haileysaint5443]

I actually like the standard Shadow Hawk, though I also like modding it slightly in MW5. As usual, I have my own variant. The SHD-5S-ISM is a mixed tech variant that relies on Clan tech for weight and space savings. Retaining the 6/9/5 movement profile of the 5S, it uses a Clan XL engine, Clan endo steel, and Clan DHS, though one is dropped. It carries 12 tons of IS stealth armor, powered by an IS Guardian ECM. It retains the head mounted .5 ton cargo bay, but mounts a Clan Active Probe in the CT, a Plasma Rifle with 2 tons of ammo in the left torso, and a Medium Re-Engineered Laser in each arm. As this is a fanon design, it was built jointly by the Capellans and the Canopians.

[@Dangaio]

The best showing of the 2H was probably in the original Mechwarrior game. The ability of the Shadow Hawk to overwhelm things with fast-loading weapons with no heat problems punched way above its usual performance.

[@MechanicalFrog]

Yeah the MW/MWO/HBS BT effect has a tendency to make these sort of mechs better.

[@Dangaio]

@@MechanicalFrog I'm talking the original, DOS version. Putting a hired pilot in a Shadow Hawk let it go toe-to-toe with the Warhammer

[@thomasgiles2876]

14:45 Attribute not to malice that which can be adequately explained by froginess.

[@MechanicalFrog]

No regerts.

[@michaelkimberling7307]

The 2H I like to call “Vanilla the Mech” not good not terrible just kinda there.

[@MechanicalFrog]

Fair.

[@realdave916]

I fell in love with the Shadow Hawk after Mechwarrior. That's Mechwarrior 1, the original DOS game. It was a good medium that could take on the heavies with proper use of jump jets. Played right on the tabletop, it still is.

[@TheStraycat74]

3050 Full Clan Tech Rebuild SHD-7A. 5/8/5, endo-steel, 9.5 tons of clanner fero-fiberous, XL+DHS, standard cockpit and gyro leaving 26.5 tons of pod space. PRIME: twin U/AC-5's with a ton of ammo each (R/LT), twin LRM-10's with a ton of ammo each (R/LT), twin ERML's one in each arm, and emotional support ersl in the h, and an extra DHS. AltConfig A: twin LPL (R/LT), twin MPL (R/LA), Twin Streak SRM-6 with a ton of ammo each (R/LT), two extra DHS, and the ever lovable ersl in the head

[@MechanicalFrog]

Interesting addition of the two LRM10s.

[@TheStraycat74]

@@MechanicalFrogI was going to do an U/ac-10 LB-10x version, but I work 70+ hours a week and haven't gotten to it. also a SERIOUS Lack of setting stuff on fire, so I doubt mini-frog would be all that interested

[@duongquan4986]

HBS Battletech was my first introduction into this franchise, Shadow Hawk is one of the two starting medium in the campaign. Back then I was new to the game , the Shawk alwayss the last mech standing and completing mission even with half of its torsor and one leg got blown off. Now I mostly play with BTA3062 mod, I always try to turn the SHawk (if i ever get one) into a murder machine it deserves to be. Yeah i always like the SHD, even if it kinda bad.

[@MechanicalFrog]

The Shadow Hawk can be useful in HBS BT since the autocannons are significantly better in the video game than on tabletop.

[@tuomastall5836]

🎵Fearing that this could be the day dreaming that this could be the day to awake your heart and spread your wing the day of setting out, Dougram 🎶

[@Yacovo]

The Shadow Hawk: The "I got a rock" of Succession Wars battlemechs. Thanks for the video.

[@MechanicalFrog]

It's sure a thing. Thanks for coming by!

[@drewgilbertson]

I always imagined the SH to be the ultimate Level 2 training mech. Like baby's first mech is going to be Locust or something similar. After a month in that without running into a wall, you get to ride a Shadow Hawk. I mean it has one of everything and it jumps. Plus the super user friendly cockpit. But yeah, it is not a great fighter.

[@xyonblade]

le hawk de shadow, I've only used it a few times but I really dig the miniature, I even went and watched about 20 episodes of dougram so far

[@gregdomenico1891]

One of the first things I did in HBS was yank the SRM2 and ammo for another ML and some armor. I kind of like the RAC version, I might just try it out. And the MF looks pretty solid, even though I'm not the biggest fan of Streak systems ( I like my specialist ammo too much on regular SRM's).

[@KingMakerRook]

I once had a RAC-5 Shad fight 1v1 and then kill an Ebon Jag Prime, it did a genuinely incredible job and was easily the hero of the match. That EJ had one-shot my Commando in round one so it had some payback coming

[@MechanicalFrog]

Sorry but Ebon Jaguars cannot be killed.

[@Orcimedes]

For those tinkering on the SHD-6D and puzzled about how it doesn't _quite_ all fit: the cockpit mounts Improved One-Shot srm-2, which weighs one tonne less than a One Shot streak srm-2.

[@JazzKazoo0930]

Painting my Shadowhawk right now, let's see if you can convince me to like it

[@JazzKazoo0930]

Conclusion: it's a mediocre at best chassis with a handful of decent variants, and a lot of mediocre to terrible ones

[@Kitkat-986]

A favorite late age refit of mine is used by a periphery mercenary force which relies on durable, low tech components to keep maintenance costs low. Its most advanced piece of equipment is a light fusion engine, a piece which is relatively low maintenance compared to XLs yet still offers an improvement over aging standard fusion engines. Its jump jets and excess heat sinks have been removed and its armor thickened, although it's still standard armor. The AC-5 has been replaced with an LBX-10, both of its missile launchers are removed for a single MML-5, and it's right arm carries two machine guns. It carries two tons of ammo each for the autocannon and missile launcher. It's not especially impressive for the Era, but it's a dependable jack-of-all-trades that keeps the spirit of the original while fitting into the lore for the group that created it.

[@strcmdrbookwyrm]

I feel the Shadow hawk, or at least the 2H, is the definition of just OK. It's toolbox set of weapons has enough pros to not be bad, but there's too many to be considered good. For me, I think the thing that holds the Shadow Hawk back is that it has one too many ammo types. If it had one less, I feel the risk would be more manageable. It's something that later variants gradually fix, and is sometimes as easy as removing one missile launcher to upgrade the other. As I've mentioned before, the Shadow Hawk was a primary inspiration for my "pet project" mech, the Red Roc. So today I'm going to apply lessons learned from testing the Red Roc to fix and or upgrade the Shadow Hawk. The first way I thought of improving the 2H without a higher tech level is to replace the AC5 with a Large Laser. The feed up tonnage would be used to upgrade the SRM 2 into a SRM 4, add two Jump Jets, and two more heat sinks. Oh, and move the SRM ammo to one of the side torsos. While it's going to run hot, I feel the mech would be improved while still feeling different from it's brothers. It also has a very logical path of upgrades. I also wanted to do something that kept the AC5, but I kept ending up making a weird wolverine.

[@MechanicalFrog]

It just has one too many weapon systems. Cut one, boost one of the others, and it'd be fine.

[@cmdrhatchy9611]

It's like any other 55 tonner, lots of potential. That weight class seems to be the sweet spot for any era as those mechs can be armed with anything. The K is one of my favorites from 3025, just needs to keep the medium laser so you don't have to change the mini.

[@MechanicalFrog]

Lots of potential, at least we have the 5S.

[@FrozenHawkHunter]

I'm loving the mod for 3062. Ended up getting a shadow hawk right away. Right now it's set up with ENDO Ferris 1 er ppc. 1 lrm 20 and a mortar 2. I pit double heatsinks and a xl engine. It's great for mountains. Just pop up get line of sight do a alpha strike and jump away. Or just fire from cover. I'm loving the air burst and inferno round for the mortar. Though I'm sure at some point an angry Beat is going to show up and ask why I keep burning the forests down.

[@clarkreamer4560]

"Designed by committee" - definitely has that vibe. Much more from the Bradley Fighting Vehicle / F-35 / Blackhawk Swiss Army Knife school than min/max A-10 unitasker. It might not be ideal for anywhere but it can operate everywhere - an original G.I. compared specialists from the 80s G.I. Joe.

[@LolixLP]

I personally love it because i can see my big gun of choice doing its work.

[@robgraham5320]

I did two 3025 refits when I played 30 years ago. One was a straight swap of the AC/5 for a PPC and two extra heatsinks, which was straight tonnage and crit swap, for an easy field refit. The SRM-2 usually got either smoke or inferno loads. The other was an odd-ball long range sniper/harasser with the SRM-2 removed, the AC/5 downgraded to an AC/2 and the right arm laser upgraded to a Large.

[@torrin9566]

It's the hero's mech (combat armor) in the Fang of the Sun Dougram anime. It has the appeal of a movie star there. Its Battletech stats often don't do it justice.

[@wordwyrd]

In the original game, it's primary advantage was armor and lack of any heat problems.

[@lexington476]

YES 🤓😎! Thank you Frog 🤩😍.

[@MechanicalFrog]

I knew it was wanted. Couldn't hold out forever.

[@lexington476]

@@MechanicalFrog 🤠

[@timebrain3188]

Coming from HBS Battletech and having listened to the Gray Death Trilogy, I remember when I saw Big Red's video on the mech and being surprised at him lambasting the design... and then I realized AC/2s and AC/5s got a much needed buff in the HBS game. It's honestly kinda sad. Good to see later eras give it some much needed upgrades, but still. I admit, for something called the 'Shadow Hawk' it's surprising to me that it doesn't have more stealth variants. Think that'd help it feel a bit more distinct compared to its fellow 55 tonner brothers. Wolverine for brawling, Griffin for ranged support, Shadow Hawk for more sneaky tactics... ah well. Good vid, think you did the mech well, whether it deserved it or not.

[@MechanicalFrog]

Yeah in HBS BT AND the MWO/MW5 games, autocannons are a whole different creature.

[@1975Paladin1]

The only thing I'd point out about the SHD-2D variant in way of an explanation for it's weakness is that it was mimicking an earlier Davion design, the SWD-2 Swordsman. Compared to the earlier Swordsman, the Shadow Hawk-D is actually not a bad design, but that's comparing a 55 ton design from 2796 to a 40 ton design from 2463, so it's not really saying much. Now, why the AFFS decided to revisit this design is debatable but the fact that the Swordsman is the inspiration for the Davion Shadow Hawk is pretty obvious.

[@kalixascsi66]

I still have a soft spot for it. My favorite variant is definitely the 8L. Guardian ECM, Beagle Active Probe, Medium VSP, Plasma Rifle, and an MML5 on a 5/8/7 makes it very versatile mech for a little over 1500BV

[@MechanicalFrog]

I think I'm good with the 5S or the 8L

[@RF-jh7mb]

I think the strongest 2 points in favor of the Original SHD-2H are it's a good trainer/tutorial mech to learn your basic level 1 rules and tech, it's got a little bit of everything. I understand that doesn't do much for it's performance, but as a tool it's useful to new players as it covers every base. The second point (and much more subjective one), it's a 3025 mech, and has been there from the beginning, where mechs were these relics and new ones were exceedingly hard to produce and were generally just scrapped together heaps of whatever you could find. When you look at the original 3025 TRO there's only just over 50 mechs total, and 1 variant per listing. We're spoiled for choice now, and there's definitely more of a slant for more efficient builds, but it's a product of it's time. It's flawed, it's been all but replaced with better choices, but it has it's place in history and the spirit of early Battletech

[@MechanicalFrog]

Fair points.

[@SamSam-qh1os]

The Shadowhawk has always played way better for me than it should by looking at it on paper. I once killed a 3050 Victor with my character's 3025 stock Shadowhawk in a 1st edition Mechwarrior campaign in the fall of 1990. It won my respect and love going forward from that point. That was my first battle in one after that character lost his Thunderbolt.

[@MechanicalFrog]

I'm glad it works for someone out there. ;D

[@MrJack556]

Maybe I'm just lucky but I've had great success with a few variants of the shadow hawk and is a go-to for me usually. Particularly the 5M and 7M

[@jehova131]

Honestly I think the best way with 3025 tech to make it better is to take a Shadowhawk 2D, swap the 2 srm2's and their 2 tons of ammo for a single srm4 with a ton of ammo, swap the AC5 and its ammo for a large laser and bring the armor back up to 9.5 tons.

[@Dang_Near_Fed_Up]

I use the 5S heavily as a deep range harasser / raider and artillery spotter behind enemy lines. Using the .5 tons as a sleeper, like in a semi, for the pilot(s) who hot bunk allowing 24hr operation of the mech.

[@MechanicalFrog]

It is a great one.

[@TalesFromTheShadows]

I started off into the Battletech Universe with the Gray Death Trilogy, so I was a Shadow Hawk fanboy. When I found it to be a bit lacking sometimes, I tried to develop my own upgrade and tried to pilot that when we started playing the Mechwarrior RPG back then. The SHD-2M (my first name starts with a M...) removed the AC/5 and invested the 9 tons into a Large Laser (LT), a Medium Laser (LA), 2 additional Jump Jets and 2 additional Heat Sinks. I never really got the chance to test it out because my groups protested against the use in Tabletop and my GM didn't let me start with or loot a Shadow Hawk to modify, sadly...

[@Kingofdragons117]

Personally I prefer the Post Clan invasion designs much more than the wolverine designs. The 8L brings fun toys to play. My preferred Shadow Hawk would probably be the 2Hb as it’s almost perfect if they would just drop a heat sink for the full 5/8/5 movement profile. Honorable mention to the 2Ht as well.

[@MechanicalFrog]

Yeah I was going to add the Tukayyid variant but the video was already getting a bit long for my taste so it got cut.

[@franciscoduarteauthor]

Ah, yes, good 'ol ShHawk. I've used it a few times in Alpha Strike, but it proved to be better at taking points and shielding other units than for anything else. A friend of mine had some interesting uses for the 2D of all things, but those tend to die quickly.

[@MechanicalFrog]

55 ton mechs with the armor of a Locust tend not to last long.

[@keebbles]

I use a modified Shadowhawk Pull lrm 5 and the srm2 replace with mml9 or mml3 in headcand mml5 in RT 2' tons ammo cased. Srms ammo is usually infernos or acid. Ac5 pulled and replaced with 2 light ppcs and a TC Armor Clan FF to save more weight. JJs improved to get 5 vs 3 jump profile. Keep 275:std fusion engine cause the 275 mafia said there'd be problems if I changed it. 12 Dhs installed. And one coolshot to allow for an alpha strike and exfil at full speed. 2 clan er sm pulses in RA And 4 clan flamer, 1 in LA, each leg and one CT facing the rear. Myomer changed to TSM to boost both walk speed and punch/kick capabilities. To stay in "zone" mechwarriors often would fire flamer in legs and CT during jumps making mech seem to lift on wings of fire. Very impressive, but not conducive to not being a primary target in combat. The leg and ct flamers often come as a huge surprise to infantry and armor thinking it was an easy mech to swarm. My clan version had a different approach... RA lg clan pulse, LA medium clan pulse, head clan sm pulse. 275 light clan w 13 DHS Clan light probe, clan ff and ecm/stealth baffles 10.5 tons gives ecm lvl 2 effect for mech itself Clan TC LT gets Clan light mg array x4 x 2 and ton AP and ton tracer/incindiary (+1 to hit +1 heat to target) RT gets clan lrm10 and 2 tons ammo. Case is there from clan armor. Baffles when engaged route waste heat through to feet while allowing air to mix with it t reduce IR/heat sig. The double lmg array comes as a surprise to many who don't see traditional ac over the shoulder and close in. Only leaving them to wonder where all their armor went. Any battle armor or infantry that gets close is going to evaporate quickly.

[@MechanicalFrog]

Definitely improvements over the originals.

[@Vulpine407]

The original 2H was lauded by it's fans as a "Jack-of-all-trades." But it's critics pointed out (quite rightly IMO) that it couldn't do any specific role well. The weaponry, while varied, did not pack much of a punch. The jump jets were insufficient to maneuver the mech very far. It did have good armor, but then so did most other medium mechs in that weight class. And ammo consumption was an issue in prolonged engagements. Now, once the "upgrade kits" (courtesy of the Helm Star League core) became available, then we started to see some impressive variants.

[@MechanicalFrog]

True that. It's definitely a mech that improves as you run down the timeline. Thank you so much for the support.

[@ArmouredRawne]

I see there wasn't a mention of the SHD-2Ht. I choose to believe you're saving it for an excellent "Why do we love the Clanbusters" video. Looking forward to it mate.

[@MechanicalFrog]

It was originally going to be in the video but I had to cut it for time. I understand now that was a grave error.

[@ArmouredRawne]

@@MechanicalFrog Or was it the minute string pulling of a shadowy telecom company forcing us down a timeline where the above mentioned Clanbuster video can happen. Blakes blessing friend.

[@MechanicalFrog]

Probably that.

[@blktom]

To me, the Shadow Hawk is a complementary mech to the Griffin and Wolverine, specially the 3025 versions. By itself, the weapons are underwhelming. But if you have a mixed lance of those 3 mechs (go two SHs), you have lance that can tear up targets at medium range with a pretty consistent barrage of fire. That lance will give you 10 SRMs, 20 LRMs, 3 MLs, 3 AC 5s, and a PPC at 220 tons. That is not terrible. Swapping out a SH in that lance for a second Wolverine or Griffin changes the role of the lance and how it is used dramatically. You also have to consider they are all 5/8 with some jump capability to stick together and get into ideal range to maximize those weapons. So yeah, mech on it's own kind is lackluster, but in a lance with it's peers tonnage-wise, it can be pretty good.

[@das_gruuben]

Great video as always. Thanks, MechFrog.

[@MechanicalFrog]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@SHDW-nf2ki]

The nice thing about the Shadow Hawk is how many types of weapon it can fit, so mercenaries can bolt on whatever weapons we salvage to this bad boy and tool it for any roll. Indirect fire with LRMS? Laser sniper? Autocannon brawler? The Shadow Hawk does it ALL!

[@atmosdwagon4656]

Shadow Hawk. The stock config is The Ultimate Training Mech since it dabbles a bit in everything. The truest Jack of All Trades, Master of none in 3025 armored warfare...And a mechlab tuner's dream. When given leeway for re-configuration, it can do whatever you need it to at least adequately, but In stock-config only battles, you'll have to wait until well after the Clan Invasion is underway to find something nice. Personally, I think the standard SHD-2H is quite overrated, but not actually bad; merely adequate. On a more positive note, I absolutely love the SHD-2K frame for refitting into triple large laser sniping builds, since that shoulder mount is right at eye level, so if you can see it, you can shoot at it (unless you're face-hugging a wall with your left torso covered). I have a lot of DIY kitchen-sink builds for the thing since the Shadow Hawk is bloody everywhere and frankly, this sort of scrounge-and-build thing appeals to irregular Forces nutters like myself. So instead of listing off a bunch of random crap nobody wants to read, I'll just provide a brief on my craziest Shadow Hawk ever... ...Please welcome, Mr. Strolls, the Door-to-Door Warcrime Salesman (yes, that was the mech's full name and title) A Shadowhawk 2K chassis radically reconfigured to house three ER Medium Lasers in the left torso's shoulder mount, a Supercharger, UAV observer, bunch of weight-saving tech I don't remember specifics for...and a single Arrow-IV missile launcher split between the right arm and right torso. The mech racked up a terrifying number of mech kills at long range courtesy of its unconventional loadout, mainly by deploying a UAV, locking onto the slowest, biggest thing from behind cover, and then delivering the good news in cruise-missile sized packages. When bereft of ammunition, it had a very respectable ability to go hull-down and poke like a mofo; using the Supercharger and its pair of Jump Jets to give it the brief bursts of speed and maneuverability it needs. One time, Mr. Strolls knocked out 7 assault mechs in a base holdout objective before running out of ammo twice over. (courtesy of repair bay ammo reloads.) But alas it eventually became the funeral pyre for one unlucky pilot when some cheeky asswipe in a Commando was air-dropped in 3 clicks behind it, YOLO in under its guns and blasted out the left torso housing the Arrow-IV's 4 tons of ammunition. Remember to invest in CASE, kids.

[@MechanicalFrog]

While I would tentatively agree, I think the Wolverine might be a better trainer. Personal taste perhaps.

[@atmosdwagon4656]

@@MechanicalFrog The reason I say the Shadow Hawk 2H is a better trainer is because it has an Autocannon, LRM, SRM, and lasers all in one package, along with jump jets. So for giving a new pilot a feel for how most archetypical mech weapons/systems work without consigning them to piloting multiple different machines, it is superior to the Wolverine. That said, I would prefer to have a Wolverine over a Shadow Hawk on the battlefield. So maybe it would be better to say that I think the Wolverine is a better service mech than a trainer.

[@EdmondHiggins]

5D go Brrrrrt.... I love the Shadow Hawk. It is stronger in lore than on the table, but it can be fun on the table. Also I'm old, I like a lot of these old designs. As per usual your MF version seem fun, though I was expecting plasma and ATMs, the HAGs are great!

[@Jackelmandingo]

Ok what I've done is some what silly. Swap the everything but the Medium laser for two LRM-10 packs and a ton of ammo each and two more Medium lasers. Now you have a 15 ton fatter Whitworth that's faster and has hands and a ton more armor. Still better then a Rifleman. Now how I make my Shadow Hawk for like the FedCom Civil War, 3060+ish, PPC on the LT shoulder, LRM-10 for the 5 pack w/2 tons of ammo, upgrade the SRM-2 for a SSRM-4, the medium laser still there, 10 DSHS, 9 tons of Ferro-Fibrous armor & Endo Steel.

[@MechanicalFrog]

Hmm... Interesting direction to take it with the two LRM-10s.

[@gregdomenico1891]

I did kinda the same thing in HBS BT: 2 LRM 10's, only 2 ML, 3 tons of ammo. More survivability than the Trebuchet, and could stay in the fight longer with more ammo and better heat management.

[@kenduncan3221]

My 1st Battletech tournament back in the '80s was won in a Shadow Hawk, everyone was in the 2025 55 tonners. Fun Times.

[@MechanicalFrog]

Awesome. Glad it performed at least once. :D

[@jotarofatso5743]

Playing BattleTech Extended rn. Gave Shadow Hawk the same loadout as Hunchback. I didn't expect that you can fit AC20 on 5/8 Succession era mech. Made the same loadout in Mech Factory and it actually fits.

[@STSGingie]

I've always been a fan of the Shadow Hawk as it was the mechbthat survived most early battles in HBS. I often swapped the AC5 with an AC10. It's an iconic mech and the shoulder AC is just too cool looking.

[@MKmaki6094]

I really don't lol, but sharing the look of my beloved Dougram was enough to make me like it. At least they managed to fix the OG's loadout enough to something close to its intended purpose

[@MechanicalFrog]

It definitely benefits from looking cool.

[@twinkzilla-5356]

I have that love hate relationship with the shadow hawk and wish the standard design was a little more potent. The design is so iconic and with it being one of the early campaign designs in HBS Battletech and staring in the GDL books I cant help but like it even if there are better options. I messed around and "came up with" a custom design for the Hawk that I later realized was just a GLD-4R Gladiator with the weapons in different locations... But is I have to go with official designs the SHD-2Ht is peak Shadow Hawk for me. Brings the jump up to 5 like it should, doubles up on the medium lasers, has a punchy shoulder gun and leans more into SRMs than wasting space with the nearly useless LRM 5.

[@dallassukerkin6878]

My first Mech I piloted outside of the Chameleon :) Still love it; I just wish it performed better under the games rules because it's design is actually decent for a mid-weight all-round scouting and skirmishing machine.

[@MechanicalFrog]

I'm increasingly of the opinion that the 2H should have had an AC/10.

[@sper1585]

In my current modded HBS BT run through or SH was our "heavy" for much of the run, it is only now as we hit the assalts phase that it is eclipsed. That said as it is a generalist, it can be difficult to choose what roll to have it fill. For a but my brother had it running dual UAC 5s.

[@mathewkelly9968]

Re engineered lasers are sooo good imho , the -1 to hit and ability to ignore those special armour abilties is amazing and worth the tonnage you pay for it

[@MechanicalFrog]

A nice counter if you know your enemy is sporting fancy new armor.

[@mathewkelly9968]

@@MechanicalFrog even without the fancy armour I'd argue keeping the old large laser range , going 9 heat 9 damage for 5 crits and 8 tons plus -1 instead of -2 is VASTLY superior to a IS large pulse laser

[@MechanicalFrog]

Quite true.

[@Bluehairedgirl89]

Thank you for all the work you put into this video mechfrog, it was really good and I enjoyed it quite a bit. I’m like you I have a bit of a mixed relationship with this mech, it’s trying to do to much and has way to many chances to either run out of or have ammo detonate on you. As well it just feels a bit underpowered compared to its contemporaries like the Griffon or Wolverine. I agree that a AC/10 would have been a better option and more lore accurate. Early Era games I tend to use Shadowhawks as heavy scouts and command mechs, not frontlines. Things get a lot nicer with the upgrades, I’ve gotta say the 5S is my absolute favorite and had a lot of what I love in a mech. I’m definitely going to try one out next chance I get. And my second favorite is the 6D because probably my favorite great house aligned regiment is the Federated Suns Armored Cavalry Regiment and I can absolutely see this in their roster. Also once again it fits my type well.

[@MechanicalFrog]

The 5S is great. Absolute win there.

[@thepiratepenguin4465]

I did something completely different coz the slots in the Battletech PC games allowed me, as the strip the Shadow Hawk down to the frame, give it 3x AC-2 Auto canon & 1x LRM5 missel. I then filled the remaining weight with armour. It is glass canon intended to be a sniper & I have found it can kill a light mech with well-placed Alpha strike & but it will explode if you look at it funny.

[@TheStrayHALOMAN]

I love this mech in the mechwarrior games because the shoulder gun is great for sniping and firing from cover. That mixed with jump jets make it strong, I have one in MW5 with 2 heavy rifles in the shoulder and both guns firing at once would blow the head off most mechs which helped alot with salvage in the early game. In BTA 3062 I like to give it a rac 5 and medium medium pulse lasers with a TSM equipped for melee fights.