Why Does Everyone Hate Dusknoir

[@pikiptcg]

Hey, that's me at 8:08!! I'm the creator of the OG thread that got people talking (and meming) about the situation! The thread wasn't meant to complain about the card, it was intended to explain my thoughts about the whole situation! I really have enjoyed seeing the community response in both a serious and joking manner, topics like these are fun to discuss about!! Really great video explaining the whole situation, mate! You've definitely earned yourself a new sub! 😁

[@vilerite]

Why are you talking like you're working at the office and your sending a corporate email to everyone in the sales department about how productivity has been down?

[@pikiptcg]

@vilerite I'm just being positive and straightforward about this entire topic... plus, that's just being polite 😅 This isn't an email straight out of "The Office" lol 🙃

[@TwilightChomperEnthusiast]

They should reprint an updated Jirachi card with the ability “Damage Counters can’t be places on your benched Pokémon from your opponent’s attacks and abilities.”

[@animejacob]

In all my games, I’ve never had an opportunity to play Briar

[@lordzeroheaven]

@@animejacob yes me too

[@bullinvginshop9011]

I’ve had the opportunity 2-3 times and it feels so good. It’s pretty easy with Charizard because he’s hitting 300- 330 with defiance band.

[@Leeboski345]

I just put Roxanne back in but I’m gonna regret it when the fomo sets in

[@yuxing1512]

I've only had 1 game required for me to play it but it was prized 😂

[@naiyar3573]

I’ve gotta be honest, this being the biggest complaint in Pokemon is refreshing since I came from Yugioh where there are only 2-3 really good decks at a time, broken cards always exist, and cost of best decks are at least 500$ 💀

[@Iminastateofconfusion]

@@naiyar3573 the deck that won the world championship 22 or 23 was 85.07 usd

[@UnluckyFoxRot420]

@@naiyar3573 I feel you there. So glad I've come here to this game

[@demontferrat]

Same LMAO, I saw dusknoir, started using it because it seems pretty good, had it used against me and for me that is just interaction. Being used to Maxx C, 10 min turns that end on an Unbreakable board, this was so normal. Sometimes I even miss cards that deal damage directly, now i imagine if they printed “Burn” item cards that deal direct damage do Pokémon’s.

[@demontferrat]

Same LMAO, I saw dusknoir, started using it because it seems pretty good, had it used against me and for me that is just interaction. Being used to Maxx C, 10 min turns that end on an Unbreakable board, this was so normal. Sometimes I even miss cards that deal damage directly, now i imagine if they printed “Burn” item cards that deal direct damage do Pokémon’s.

[@Over9000Chainz]

It feels very “yugioh” to evolve clops into noir, break it to deal damage, Thorton the Duskull back into play, rare candy into Noir and then use it again, earning me two prizes and boosting Zard’s damage by 60 in the process

[@proftree]

I thought you wouldn't be able to rare candy it because you placed the Duskull that turn? Correct me if I'm wrong

[@Over9000Chainz]

@@proftree Thorton copies turns in play as well, so if you use Thorton on a Pokemon that was in play for at least one turn you can rare candy on the Duskull you place with it

[@MrPicks_n_Packs]

You should see what monkidori can do or Mimikyu safegard into mimikyu v is literally "spirit reaper"😂😂

[@uwaa5768]

The reason dusknoir feels so bad is because in pokemon we dont have ways to interact with the opponent in their turn so this is essentially a spell card with no counter. Even if they print a counter its not going to solve a single problem since we are stuck for 2 years limiting the design of the entire game because of the existence of this singular pokemon that breaks 2 of the core mechanics of the game, prizes and attacking ending your turn.

[@tisha2932]

there was a item card in the dpp era that could counter abilities on your opponents turn and from what i've heard it was not fun to play against, i would much rather have dusknoir in the game than interaction like that

[@uwaa5768]

@@tisha2932 How about neither? my point was that this is a mechanic that has no point being in this game since it come hand to hand with same turn counterplay for it to be healthy and pokemon is simply not made for that

[@HaggisDruid]

Bro is even immune to Path to the Peak (R.I.P)

[@samacvuk]

Very few people complain, most people just quit the game quietly

[@richardsmith9615]

This card, and all the stuff that just nukes your bench before you even get to play is pretty toxic to be honest. Just stops you wanting to play the game at all.

[@jracer876]

The moment I first saw this card when shrouded fable dropped I knew dusknoir was gonna be a menace

[@MarshtompGames]

And then there's the rogue deck that is Bloodmoon Ursaluna.

[@BigSumoFan]

13 damage counters is insane no matter how you spin it considering the lack of being able to block it's counters since it's an ability. They should have stopped at Dusclops' 5 damage counters. Edit: also I hate anything that enables charizard's "I'm losing? Better just win then" mechanic

[@AstorgamesTCG]

I think it's kinda bad for the game because it lets you accelerate the game in a way you don't really have much choices about+destroying the oops board again without much counterplay available. Here I'll give you a couple prizes but in exchange I'll take a couple prizes and also get rid of your setup mons/search engine and now I'll Roxanne or Iono to leave you with few options and there's nothing you can do.

[@artbanks27]

It's very easy to pull out very strong and there is not protection against it. The annoying part for me is every deck has to have it making options very limited.

[@Cra3ier]

@@artbanks27 nope, Gardevoir deck doesn’t have it 🥲

[@micham4897]

hi, just want to say that i really appreciate your videos, they are made with such a high quality, its a shame you still have less than 1000 subs, keep being great!

[@asherjohnson6612]

A supporter card with the effect to disable an opponents pokemon ability even when they evolve for there next turn would be a good counter or a pokemon with the ability to protect the bench from effects of abilities.

[@TwilightChomperEnthusiast]

“Choose 1 of your opponent’s Pokémon. Until the end of their next turn, that Pokémon has no ability (including cards it evolves or devolves into, or cards that switch into its place).”

[@Dinotology]

To be honest I think the biggest issue is simply that dusknoir by itself is balanced, but it in combination with some of the other cards in the format can make it frustrating to deal with. Also the only ways to counteract it is to play more hyper aggressive turbo decks (Regidrago, Raging bolt, etc.). Ancient Box funny enough is the only single prize deck that has enough hp to with stand dusknoir explosion and can deal enough damage to knock out the Ex Pokémon it’s paired with

[@thealolanturtwig5670]

It would definitely be interesting to see a format without rare candy, as you said it would rotate first, but at the same time that would just mean an uptick in basic decks like miraidon and raging bolt

[@yuxing1512]

They'll reprint it

[@alexnicolaou3579]

@@yuxing1512 they always do, candy is like ultra ball, switch, boss and professor at this point. always in format. because evolving is a key aspect of the games, they'd never willingly nerf evo decks.

[@chaosdoesthings9347]

Its a bit annoying but I'm not going to lose my mind over it why didn't more people hate Snorlax than this

[@dedou7722]

Cause Snorlax is an easy fix. Just run switch cards in your deck. It was why Lost Box decks had a good matchup with it. Theres no counter play to Dusknoir.

[@chaosdoesthings9347]

@@dedou7722 yes but they can discard them with sisters and you only have a limited amount

[@dedou7722]

@chaoscontrolgaming9347 There's other switch cards that aren't items. Jet Energy, Kieran... which is also why Lugia has a good matchup against Snorlax

[@UnreadierFuture]

@@dedou7722 every card in the deck is important. Not every deck can afford to run multiple switch cards unless it has synergy (lost box draw engine/lugia energy). Snorlax’s win condition is to literally make your opponent use those resources until they’ve dried up. It’s annoying because you have to tech for the matchup or make your deck extra clunky to beat a deck that is just counter catcher + Rotom draw 3/penny heal loop every turn

[@dedou7722]

Nope, not every card in your deck is important. A pool of cards are important within your deck, the rest are specific preference. There are certain cards that you can sacrifice to tech in for other matchups. Remember Tord Reklev's EUIC 2024 Zard decklist? He sacrificed certain cards to have a better matchup against Snorlax Stall and he won 1st place.

[@azerty1933]

I do believe this card is making the game worse as it's a big counter to evolution decks. I've been trying to make dipplin festival work since the release of the card but Dusknoir decks are neither fun nor challenging to play against. Haha yes you knocked out all 3 of my applin and dipplin in a turn and since you can easily bring them back I can't do anything but give up The fact it's so easy to bring back makes the card way too strong, the same ability but the card goes to the lost zone would actually be balanced I do believe any deck / card that let you make 3 or more ko in a turn shouldn't exist in the tcg as it removes all possibility of a comeback if you're playing an evolution deck

[@rohanbelani5981]

@@azerty1933 by that logic can’t you bring apples back? Also dusknoir isn’t the reason that deck isn’t viable

[@azerty1933]

@@rohanbelani5981 dipplin is definitely viable, i won my local league yesterday with it The thing with dusknoir is it's not an attack so there is also the attack for turn coming. If you're playing sub 60hp card you basically need to bring back three basic in one turn in order to have a chance at a comeback (and that's assuming they only play 1 Dusknoir line and can only attack one pokemon at a time) Considering how quickly the dusklops can be set up, if you're playing second you're not playing the pokemon tcg anymore, you're playing the super rod tcg

[@ihaveanamewow1983]

@@azerty1933Local league does not mean the deck sees success 😭

[@azerty1933]

@@ihaveanamewow1983 oh no but it does mean it can work. I have a 70% win rate on tcglive with a version of the deck. It's incredibly good against strong ex attackers and I seriously believe the deck is underutilised I'm guessing you also thought iron thorns couldn't win world because it didn't have a 30% use rate? Underutilised decks are a thing in every tcg, just because you couldn't make it work does not mean it can't work

[@kingt1954]

@@azerty1933 See that's what I was thinking I don't undestand how a deck with potentially 3 free search per turn and a 200-260-300 atk with 1 energy could be so bad I really don't see a problem other than the mons having very low hp and the deck relying on a stadium

[@atHandleName]

I think dusclops is a great card, giving up a prize to fix damage, finish things off, or execute some other part of your plan is excellent. Dusknoir almost always being able to just trade 1 for 1 on your turn with no counterplay possible from your opponent is extremely problematic imo and totally gatekeeps evolving decks to an extent but also complements them exteemely well, but primarily gatekeeps single prize decks hard which is really bad for the game imo

[@WhiteoutKyurem]

Dusclops/Dusknoir is so interesting to me. On one hand: Throwing 130 damage on the board instantly is very annoying, that’s enough to KO a Radiant Greninja, and making Charizard, the best deck in the format before SFA, even more busted by allowing them to control their prizes and damage. On the other hand: Being able to fix damage calculations at the cost of potentially losing the game by giving up a prize card is a good way to add risk/reward to the game (I almost exclusively play Dialga VSTAR, making Star Chronos now do 270 with Dusclops or 350 with Dusknoir allows so much more power and flexibility in the deck). Another thing is Duskull doesn’t have a 70HP card, making it Dragapult/Regidrago food. Any deck can use the line, so it’s not like it only benefits certain decks (of course, some decks abuse it better). I can see why people want the card banned, and I see why others don’t, though realistically they won’t ban it (The last bans in Standard Format was Forest of Giant Plants and Lysandre’s Trump Card, 2 objectively broken cards all the way back in the XY format).

[@sfritts10]

Surprisingly, there were 2 bans during Darkness Ablaze that most forget about (myself included for the longest time): Mismagius UNB 78 Bellelba & Brycen-Man CEC 186 That being said, bans are still incredibly rare. If Archeops SIT and Battle VIP Pass FST stayed in format during their prime, it’s pretty safe to say Dusknoir’s safe from a ban tbh

[@satanito09]

I main dialga and haven't tried it with dusknoir is it fun? Do you want to share the decklist? I'll go try and make one now

[@ihaveanamewow1983]

Charizard was not bdif in twm 💀

[@WhiteoutKyurem]

@@satanito09 I think having Dusclops and Dusknoir really improves the deck. Here’s what I run (You can remove the 1-1 Archaludon if you want, it isn’t completely necessary): Pokémon: 13 3 Origin Forme Dialga VSTAR ASR 114 1 Beldum TEF 113 3 Metang TEF 114 1 Archaludon SCR 107 2 Beldum SIT 117 2 Dusclops SFA 19 1 Duraludon SCR 106 3 Origin Forme Dialga V ASR 113 2 Duskull SFA 18 1 Radiant Greninja ASR 46 1 Dusknoir SFA 20 Trainer: 14 3 Ultra Ball SVI 196 3 Professor's Research SVI 190 2 Buddy-Buddy Poffin TEF 144 1 Hisuian Heavy Ball ASR 146 3 Iono PAL 185 4 Nest Ball SUM 123 2 Pokégear 3.0 SVI 186 3 Super Rod PAL 188 1 Prime Catcher TEF 157 3 Boss's Orders RCL 154 Energy: 1 15 Basic {M} Energy Energy 25 Total Cards: 60

[@satanito09]

@@WhiteoutKyurem thank you ill try it out.

[@starduster2829]

Dusknoir is my favourite Pokemon of all time and I've only recently started to stay up to date with the competitive side of the TCG so I'm not complaining about this situation. I bought the Shrouded Fable mini tin with it on and also managed to pull the art rare from my ETB which was amazing. The downside of it being so strong is the Duskull and Dusclops art rares which I want are now more expensive haha. I'm going to probably play it in Palkia soon. It is crazy strong. I was playing against Charizard EX and both games they just easily manipulated my prizes, taking a prize for themselves, forcing Briar to be activated and also boosting the damage of Charizard.

[@uwaa5768]

easy fix, ban dusclops, reprint with text, "TO THE ACTIVE" and let the smaller ones hit the bench

[@alberqueaq6939]

I really think it’s just the ability for Dusknoir to shred your bench support that’s the problematic bit. A bench shielding mon would solve this. “Prevent all damage counters from being placed on your Benched Pokémon by effects of attacks and abilities used by your opponent’s Pokémon.” On some 70HP Single Prizer. Notably “Benched Pokémon” meaning you can still use it to fix math against fat ex Pokémon, and you still get the self KO so you can play the prize manipulation game, but you still need to bench snipe it or boss ko it if you want to shred the bench.

[@enhidri160]

Dragapult :(

[@inkthekitsune]

I agree, some manaphy/jirachi type card. Maybe even specify only abilities if they want to make it a bit less op, or a stage 1 for abilities and attacks. But then it’s good against munki/rad alakazam/duskull, rad blastoise, etc. I don’t think too op but would be like manaphy, just an inclusion in most decks. And dusknoir could still hit the active, not making it useless.

[@redwins8840]

Doesn't rabsca do exactly what you're looking for?

[@inkthekitsune]

@@redwins8840 rabsca doesn’t stop abilities, just attacks like dragapult’s

[@redwins8840]

@@inkthekitsune true, haven't read the card properly lol

[@Winterstrife89]

I'd run more TM Devo, because the meta is so evolution heavy now, it forces people to make better choices with their Rare Candy at least.

[@hylianhero1921]

Dusknoir is insanely annoying because it has almost no counterplay. Rabsca doesnt block it, cant use Manaphy. The only way is to ko Duskull before it gets up. Can't even negate one of the issues prize manipulation because it still benefits them because you had to ko it. Its made Zard utterly ridiculous and infuriating to deal with

[@MonkeyDLouie999]

I like dusknoir not many decks archetypes run it . If it becomes a big enough problem I'm sure Pokemon will print a basic pokemon to protect from the effect.

[@TheAlchemic1]

will be doing touchdown dances in the end zone when this gets banned (I’m coping)

[@jacksnell8875]

I've been playing the TCG for 20 years and attended Worlds this year. Mark my words, this card will get banned

[@ihaveanamewow1983]

Dusknoir is only a issue in decks with noctowl ngl

[@erix1384]

I like it because it makes the game less linear. Any added mechanic that makes the player have more options available makes the game more complex and therefore more skill-based. Think of it like playing chess with and without queens, the queen might be a powerful piece but it makes the game more complex than queenless chess.

[@azerty1933]

It's more like chess but you have paratroopers you can use which let's you attack anywhere and you can still take a turn

[@dedou7722]

No, your 'Queen' is your boss monster (main attacker) because it would be the MAIN threat that you have on your board. Dusknoir would be a pawn with a C4 attached to it jumping on your opponents pieces, forcefully moving it to a convenient spot to where your bishop/rook/knight etc, at the same turn, get an easy kill.

[@erix1384]

Holy shit there is a lot of salt here. People act like the card has zero counterplay.

[@azerty1933]

@@erix1384 it's not that it doesn't have counterplay, it's that it makes any deck relying on under 60hp pokemon pretty much unusable

[@erix1384]

@@azerty1933 If you spam your bench with multiple basics, your opponent will waste resources bringing out dusk and trading prizes while you can just put all your resources into evolving your surviving low-HP basics. It's literally a positive trade and all the new tera cards combined with area zero makes spamming your bench incredibly easy. There's a reason they released dusk the same time as all the tera support.

[@rivern.7551]

There are plenty of downsides to the card, like it being a stage 2, it giving up a prize card, not working in all decks, etc.. People really need to stop making a big fuss about any card that is slightly more control-oriented. Like sorry dude, put more than one of the basic form of your main attacker on the field. They get two dusknoirs in one turn? That's no different than getting flattened by a really optimal Raging Bolt deck, or Charizard deck, or any other deck in the game. Just let cards be good smh

[@Goobrino]

You are literally comparing an attack to an ability damage.

[@rivern.7551]

@@Goobrino I am comparing one deck being good to another deck being good, actually. No specific attacks were mentioned

[@liamsmusic8708]

You are forgetting they would take 2 prizes if you double dn, I get it vs stage 2 decks but still big basics never care about this, it's used to maneuver for briar and prize race mostly, it accelerates the game

[@thinkinginsideout4053]

I think, the issue is about single prizers unable to deal with it... Rogue deck players suffer a lot.

[@1Ryan808]

I’m a big fan of dusknoir

[@MrWessiide]

Just put a fusion strike energy on your genesect and stop effects of abilities oh wait wrong format lol

[@doomsday1273]

Ya I hate dusknoir lol. It breaks the game by speeding it up too much

[@bakagaijin3203]

Dusknoir is far from the most annoying thing in pokemon tcg, I think it's far more annoying to play iron thorns, or to get unfair stamped, or Roxanne'd to 3, or gettin iono'd when you're down to 3 prizes or less. Lol

[@JamFlexx]

@bakagaijin3203 just makes games quicker. In those scenarios more than 3 turns play out, where a lot of dusknoir abusing decks aim to go 3-3 now, which was not possible before (in most cases)

[@JO-iv7tl]

Dusknoir is a necessary component to the game. Returns the ability to bench an opponent. giving a more even footing to a player who goes first since the ruling is that any player going first cant attack. Dusknoir gives said player, effectively, 2 attacks turn 2. Im all for returning win conditions to the game.

[@MrPicks_n_Packs]

YES pokemon tcg is becoming YUGIOH