Why Does Everyone HATE Final Fantasy VIII?

[@ErekLadd]

Do you dislike FFVIII? Let me know! And don't forget to subscribe for weekly JRPG/Final Fantasy content!

[@BOSIE321]

Nope, it's a great game for me. It also frequently gets to around 6th/7th place in most FF polls, has a 90 Metacritic, and was critically acclaimed on release so the idea of it being 'hated' isn't right I don't think. I think It's like FF12 or 16 in that upper- mid category of FF games in terms of overall reception but these games have a loud minority of people who don't like them. I'd say FF2, 13 and 15 are far more divisive.

[@zakirstocks9514]

Never. *Final Fantasy VIII* is one of THE Best Epic FF Gaming Masterpiece from my Childhood. I would NEVER hate *FFVIII* in my life.

[@zephon6745]

No I don't hate it.

[@blockmasterscott]

I like FF8, thought it was a good game. I do like FF7 better, though.

[@mariusyandereini7031]

Nope, it was my first Final Fantasy and my introduction to JRPG's and is my personal favorite FF game. Is it perfect?No. Does it have flaws? Yes like every game out there. Its my childhood game and the more I come back and play it the more new things I learn and discover that I did not know existed. I would recomend checking Resonant Arc as they did a very detailed deep dive into FF8 from story, to behind the scenes development and story elements. You will get a lot of answers there about the positives and negatives of the game. Plus the Squall is dead theory has been debunked many times. Resonant Arc also did a deep dive into where that theory came from.

[@kagekun1198]

Final Fantasy VIII was my very first FF game. I was blown away by the opening FMV, I was impressed by Squall's coolness, the awesome music also swept me away in the game. It will always hold a sentimental place in my heart, but I can understand how this may not have reached universal popularity like FFVII did. The biggest factor I'd say would be the Junction system. It's incredibly unintuitive, and the tutorials didn't help. As a dumb preteen who only thought leveling up was the way to get stronger, my first playthrough in FFVIII was a nightmare. I kept running into brick walls like Diablos who kept one-shotting me no matter how high my level, and boss fights were full of GF animations. As beautiful as they are, you are going to get bored of Shiva's Diamond Dust when you do it ten times or more during a fight. In the end, I just gave up after switching to Disc 3. But once I got a little older, and had access to a Gameshark, I soon had access to lots of magic, and with that, I learned how Junctioning works, and the importance of learning GF skills. From that, I learned how Triple Triad works, how nasty the Random rule was, and that leveling up was not a good thing at all. Once I comprehended how the Junction system worked, then everything was smooth sailing for me. Subsequent playthroughs were a breeze to me. Really, though, the game had a very tough learning curve. It's still one of the best games.

[@davidwhite206]

Same with the brick wall. Made it to the Ragnarok with Squall and Rinoa and could not get past those raptor looking monsters. I immediately realized my folly and just started over from scratch that night. Loaded up on magic, and when I made it back to that part of the game about a week later, I wiped the floor with them.

[@Flanagax]

I've always kinda hated the "FF VIII is too technological" argument, when series darlings VI and VII were both clearly industrial and post-industrial settings. Going all the way back to the original on the NES, and you still have submarines, spaceships, and robots. The series has always been about the intersection of magic and technology.

[@lindenstromberg6859]

That's true, the first FF game was a post-apocalyptic world on the ruins of a technologically advanced civilization. That's kind of a theme through most FF games, including FF8. And civilization is at various levels.

[@JacobKnox-t9b]

Even ff1... The most powerful enemy in the game is a freaking war mech. You are definitely right

[@HSE331]

the backlash against tech was the collective seethe of boomer ff fans who liked it "before it was popular" o algo coming to a breaking point after 6 and 7 pushed the series into that direction. and since 7 was the mainstream home run, 8 would have haters from 7 as well as the larger fanbase who felt left behind by 6 but now had a reason and bandwagon to jump on.

[@PeteOfDarkness]

Bruh... literally every single game (AFAIK) is some sort of techno fantasy. Did they skipped 90% of FF7?

[@fenris91]

I don't. It's always been my favorite.

[@justareplica]

Everyone hates FF8?...............Couldn't be me

[@EdgeMan]

I first played 7 and then they released 8 and I absolutely loved it, one my favourite games of all time. As soon as I saw the intro... that was it. The Landing was also at the time just amazing plus the soundtrack. Incredible. Triple Triad what a game. I have to shout out The Castle theme on the pipe organ. Incredible. Thanks for that Nobuo Uematsu

[@julioflores5946]

The main reason is that it came after FF7.

[@teruienages962]

Also a legitimately bad magic system that makes the entire game feel like a slog, absolutely poorly written, terrible characters that run the full gamut from dirt stupid to entirely unlikable, and a random idiot plot full of terribly written contrivances and a random generic final boss fight pulled out of nowhere. Throw in one of the most fanfictiony, hackneyd love stories since Twilight, and everything having to do with Laguna. It's just a bad game with a bad magic mechanic, with bad characters, and a bad story.

[@sparkfire22223]

I think when anyone writes with SUCH hate for FF8 my suspicion is that they're probably one of the ones that just resented it after FF7. The reality is loads (and I mean LOADS) of people LOVE 8. It was by far my favourite of all the final fantasies right up until Remake & Rebirth. Hating FF8 proves some sort of bias & lack of ability to think critically. The game was a success and lots of people loved it. The tone & approach in the video is the right one; someone who shows understanding for why people didn't like it but also showing why it had many good points going for it. Like I say - anyone who just comes out swinging with wild hatred for the game loses all credibility and is probably a person who lives more by their emotions than their logic - and there are MANY of those especially among those who loved FF7 and couldn't view 8 in any way other than to compare it to its predecessor.

[@christophertheofilos1063]

Or the best one, ftfy

[@Dirtysanchez27]

​@@sparkfire22223the story does leave a lot of plot holes and things just get skipped over though

[@sparkfire22223]

@@Dirtysanchez27 Yeah you're not wrong - and that was a shame although 1) it left a lot fewer plot holes than peolpe realise the plugs for the gaps were just subtle and 2) a lot of those holes were tasteful and cultivated this huge wave of fan-fiction & theories which was wonderful! I've generally found that wanting a neatly polished plot doesn't really work with the FF series in general lol - it's much more about the relationships between the characters I think.

[@zakirstocks9514]

I just don't see why some people hated *Final Fantasy VIII.* If you ask me, it's one of THE Best Underrated FF Gaming Masterpiece. I Absolutely Love this game from my Childhood Years.

[@_edo2599]

the philosophy of the game is all like "oh yes we are friends, we'll be able to come back to see each other again because we aRe fRiEndS. Yuppi the power of friendship!" it's ok if you are 7yo otherwise it's just cringe af. The junction system is one of the worst experience system of the entire saga and it's easily breakable. The only good thing of this game is Ultimecia's tits, and you'll need to reach the end of the game to see them, gunblade's cool as well but the rest of the game is to delete. I don't hate ff8, but conceptually everything's wrong. Nostalgia doesn't make good a bad written game

[@papabear6611]

@@_edo2599 well it’s good that I don’t have nostalgia and I still liked it which really just breaks that part down, the story is about love and the main character squall, is one of the best if not the best in the series, the love interest, Renoa, is also great the side characters/ friends are a mixed bag however. The junction system kinda tedious when they could have just made it normal leveling but you can make party memebers change on the fly from magic to defense to attack. Its a great game honestly

[@Edwinschuur]

I really hated it because of the junction system. It either broke characters or made it difficult for people who didn't get it. And myain problem was drawing spells took ages. And then you never used spells.because they would weaken your stats. So it was only about spamming attack and summons. The story and world were really good.

[@michaelconner9208]

Pros - 8 has good character and summon designs. Music is great. The card game is fun Cons - EVERYTHING ELSE

[@WheeledHamster]

I don't know we went a cool bombing mission in FF7 to some emo jackass giving another student a tour of their dormitory. Like what the shit is this?

[@supremefankai5480]

The only thing I didn't like was drawing magic and then not being incentivised to use it because of the junction system. Other than that it was a fine game.

[@saltyk9869]

I think the biggest problem is drawing and junctioning magic. It takes a long time to draw spells (even if you can pull 9 at a time). Then, you don’t want to cast spells as it both reduces stats and means more drawing (or refining). The Remaster really helps with that as you can hit the 3x speed and draw spells in minutes.

[@mikepen0287]

I mean after the first playthrough you pretty much know draw isn't very practical and is really to get gf's. Might even be why the first item mod and magic refine skills are low ap cost. It naturally lures you into using the magic to reinforce your core stats and fight melee and focus on limit breaks. It's built to be part of the narrative. That's why you have the other gardens that are shown to not focus on gf junctioning. That there are trade offs . But also there's the whole thing with sorceresses being normally bad and trying to take over the world too. It's made to emphasize the narratives for the world lore and that our main characters are special for the reason of choosing to use magic like that in a more human way and even with trading up with sorceresses and being founded by 1. Along with helping others as freelance mercy. Just changing the system kinda.chanh3s the story ya know.

[@Sacrengard]

smart people just dont use magic, even if magic didnt reduce your stats when used, its too weak compared to GFs and limit breaks... the game its clear on that, and yeah you can exploit the draw system to become a murder machine but you can also play triple triad and exploit the exploit. OR just use draw to use enemy's magic against themselves or to benefit yourself. Its not a perfect system, but its really not that horrible if the game gives you other options...

[@hom-sha-bom]

@@mikepen0287 It doesn't matter if its your first play through or 100th play through you're still required to draw magic 1-9 at a time that you don't yet have a refinement for

[@mikepen0287]

​@@hom-sha-bomyou really dont have to draw magic in the game.. by the end of seed test you have all the tools to break the game. siren gives the curative refinements. core elemental refinements can fluff stats to match disc 2 if nothing else. diablos can turn off xp and card can prevent xp on low hp enemies and takes about 10-18 battles of fish on the beach before fire cavern. you can stay low level and cheese the game that early. no need to draw magics at all. can farm cards the easiest way by waiting until you get 4 gf cards ifrit, brothers, diablos and cheese most of the card game battles with just them. takes a while to reject new rules that such but thats how ya cheese that too. the game is cool like that, its as difficult as you want it to be. can draw if you want, but not required at all to beat the game. have tried to get through at level 8 but cant quite get it to work right have got as low as a range of 9-11 between all the characters.

[@theflashgordon193]

​@@Sacrengardi never thought like that honestly. If I want my character to use a magic I don't junction with it.

[@guruthosamarthruin4459]

It's funny. People claim that 8 is one of the most hated, or at least one of the most divisive. But, every time a "favorite FF" poll is done, 8 consistently comes in 4th, behind only 7, 10, and interchangeably either 6 or 9.

[@SenseiThimii]

This is because there are so many people, who put 8 in the upper echelon of Final Fantasys. Even as number 1. Why it falls back, is because there are just as many players who put it in the lower tier. Many critics have fallen back a bit on their opinion, just because of FF8s negative hype in the community. And them being that, critics. They have to consider not just with their guts.

[@danielj7053]

Its cause nobody really picks 1,2,3,4,5 so than its really between 6,7,8,9,10 and 8 is consistently ranked lowest among them

[@mikepen0287]

​@@danielj7053 a lot of people love ff4. Ff1 was favored by the speed runners and challenge gamers. Ff3 exists.... I think I'm in the very small camp of having final fantasy 5 as my favorite. I just think newer fans don't like the older graphics.

[@talmanes4589]

@@danielj7053 I do know one person who claims 4 as his favorite, but for the most part you're right. Most people don't even consider the games before 6 when they start ranking them.

[@logiclunacy606]

​@mikepen0287 I mean the older graphics for 1-6 aged more gracefully than the graphics of 7, 8 & 9 because of the blurriness to the prerendered backgrounds. I also think 4 is highly thought about too.

[@virgoaraaf557]

This is my first Final Fantasy game, I will never hate it. I didn't really get what's the story back then since I was only 10, but once I re-play the game few years ago, I still like it, not as much as I like 7 (my second FF game) or 9, but it's pretty good for my liking. The graphic back then was really really good. The music? AMAZING. I'm still listening the Balamb Garden theme often, especially when I need to relax, chill, and feel a bit nostalgic.

[@mastod0n1]

I've heard FF8 referred to as a soundtrack that also just happens to be a game lol. The music is soooo good.

[@markli6763]

I loved ff8 but i will admit that i was pretty early on the internet scene and when i had trouble with junction, i read an online faq essentially explaining the concept of not leveling and just getting stronger through drawing and refining spells. Then i just bought tents from stores, turned them into curagas, and basically i became invincible for all the early portions most people had trouble with while learning.

[@boboboy8189]

I play this game without Internet, my family is poor back then and there's no affordable Internet in my country yet. I figured everything my own including that crash landed ship on that south island. I only got lion heart sword once with squall 😅

[@Yurikon3]

Junction system really isn't that big hurdle to understand: "Stronger magic -> bigger boost, more of that magic -> even more boost" Its biggest crux is its drawing system. It is very dull way to become stronger which doesn't really offer that much risk or tension. Usually the idea is that there is action which is riskier but brings bigger rewards. There is the chance of failure, but yearn for challenge and overcoming the odds can surely make a difference. Drawing system only requires time. Enemies aren't really that threatening and even if you just draw the weakest spells they can offer signinficant boost when capped. If gaining spells required a system which perhaps required bit more risk and engagement from the player so they can balance taking heavier chances but being rewarded with better spells without dull draw-waiting game, junction system could perhaps be base for very good leveling system. The draw-back of "no sequel"-policy was that system which were innovative but had some crustier parts didn't get to be polished in later titles.

[@manat31790]

ATB was introduced in FF4 and has been used since despite the "no sequel" policy, while the job system always come up once in awhile and you can argue FF10, FF12, and FF13 all use similar looking boards to represent character upgrades. It's not really about the system not being refined, but how the drawing system's simply not efficient compared to traditional MP

[@Koyasama]

The biggest problem with the junction system/level scaling was that enemies gained all their stat boosts from the level gain, while your party members barely get anything, because they're expected to be junctioning spells. Grinding isn't just ineffective, the player actually gets punished for it (and you barely get anything from equipment upgrades, either). Story-wise, yes, the entire orphanage thing came out of nowhere. The memory loss was briefly hinted at in a couple of easily missed NPC dialogues, but nothing else until Irvine hits everyone over the head with it. And regardless of the memory loss being set up or not, the idea that such a wide range of important characters, whom you meet throughout the course of the game in many different places, all "coincidentally" grew up at the same orphanage is ridiculous. The theme of FF VIII was supposed to be romance, but the romance itself was very poorly done. It doesn't help matters that this is one of the few Final Fantasy games where almost every major character is an immature teenager--up to and including Quistis "Don't Stand So Close To Me" Trepe--with characterizations to match their age. Squall is the only one with a coherent character arc in the game; growth for anyone else is spotty, at best. (And don't talk to me about Rinoa. Don't even get me *started* on that pathetic caricature of a romantic interest.)

[@NDCCMTX]

You're singing the song of my heart!! 😂 The story was weak, the characters were flat, and the romance was pathetic. This is unexcusable compared to other FF games. The music, however, was really good.

[@uHasioorr]

Where do I throw in the coin to get you started on her?

[@Technasma]

Question is why you here when you dont like the game, just go back to ff7 then

[@keltzy]

@@Technasma The video is specifically about hating FF8. And we were asked for our opinions if we hated the game. I've played through every pre-ps3 era final fantasy a minimum of three times. I would take any of them over 8.

[@Technasma]

@@keltzy well you are gonna be a slim minority then

[@danm3099]

I enjoyed the function system, although I can understand why many have an issue with it. I appreciated Squall's development from a loner into someone who opens up and values his friends. The story definitely gets convoluted like you said, but I think the strength of the characters really helps push the game along...would love to see what they could do with a remake!

[@mikepen0287]

Only if they did a remake like how they did for 3 or 4.. not like how they did a 'remake' for 7...

[@xboxgamerz22]

If just if

[@mikepen0287]

@@xboxgamerz22 yeah but steam version or remaster seem to be the best well get. Steam if you want the full game and the memory card game, or remaster if you want touched up graphics. But if they do remake just make the principal look like Robin Williams.

[@supersaiyaman11589]

the draw system was tedius and they could have taken that out of the game.that was boring.

[@chriskrause6280]

I too loved 8, but the critiques I can understand the most are: It’s super easy to break the game once you understand junctioning and level scaling. Card mod enemies to get AP but not EXP, turn cards into powerful magic, and you can junction your low leveled characters to be super OP’ed and breeze through the game. Now, I thought it was fun to figure this out, but some people wan the game to still be challenging even when you’re optimizing everything, so I can see why they didn’t like that. Secondly, the orphanage twist is just kinda silly. It would help if most of the info about GF’s taking your memories wasn’t in ancillary things you pick up and read (that are easily missable) until the big reveal.

[@boboboy8189]

If someone really want to be more hard, just level up. It will scale based on your level

[@chriskrause6280]

@@boboboy8189 you definitely can, but I understand why this annoys some, particularly those looking for more natural challenge to arise in a game. They would prefer the game itself offer the challenge, not that they purposefully have to play sub optimally to be challenged.

[@sandythompson3525]

The hate is mainly because it was contrary to expectations of ff fans. Ffvii was huge and a lot of people new to the series were expecting more of the same. I remember thinking that myself. It took me a few years to love it. But I think I’ve clocked more hours on viii than any other in the last 10 years as once you’re into it, it’s so addictive!

[@Xahnil]

For me it's just the god-awful story. It has way too many abandoned plot points that were dropped in development rush and the Laguna plot is the biggest offender. And not a single likeable, or even interesting (albeit very fashionable) character other than Selfie.

[@WheeledHamster]

@@Xahnil It just the stupid dormitory vibes, with these stupid students, time travel bull shit. Now looking back at it I don't know why I liked it.

[@stormcutter59]

That is so utterly wrong. It wasn't because "it wasn't what fans expected," it's because what was implemented was so unbelievably archaic and time-consuming. Most importantly, the combat system was practically meaningless aside from leveling up your equipped Summons (or GFs as they're called in 8). You have to either grind a card game you won't inherently know how to efficiently use to shortcut through the game or grind out Draw on every enemy you encounter for 30 minutes at a time, EVERY time throughout the adventure. I've spent 30 hours trying to figure out and draw out the best spells I can find and VERY little of that time was spent on the story of the game. Even as determined as I was to see the story to the end, my patience couldn't help but run totally out by that point. This game does everything in its power to stop you from having fun and if you want to get ANYTHING out of its combat system in an interesting way, you have to essentially stop playing the main combat of the game to do it. This was a system that NEEDED refinement. As it is, it's only fun for those who know how to take advantage of it

[@goblinking1349]

@@stormcutter59 another problem is that junction system is completely divorced from the plot or the world. In FF6, you learn spells from Espers, which are crucial to the plot In FF7, you get stronger through Materia, which are condensed Mako life energy, which is crucial to the plot In FF8... you "draw" spells from monsters and at random places in the world. It's a weird mechanic completely unrelated to everything else.

[@nesoukkefka1741]

​@@goblinking1349Actually there is a lore explanation for FFVIII system, but it's never told directly during the game's story and is told in the logs related to the lore in the tutorial menus. Essentially the magic that is use by common people is not truly magic it is called para-magic and is an invention made by Dr Odine, who also discover GF and in lore created the Junction System, aim to replicate Sorceress's magic, essentially the idea is people can absorb energy from ennemies or natural sources and use that energy in form of spells, and through GF allows to ehance the user's abilities.

[@ryuka-ruki6474]

FF8 was my first Final Fantasy, and as such, I grew up on the incredibly easy to break but confusing and not greatly explained junction system. I only really struggled with the gameplay for a little bit before figuring it out. It still has drawbacks though, since you're essentially encouraged to never use magic as if they're items because they're finite and will lower your stats. Nowadays I focus on my gripes with the plot, not the gameplay. Turn based games like this tend to be my jam regardless of being good or bad, so that's harder to judge without bias. My main gripes were that Squall and Rinoa both stole the plot relevance and also their relationship was, not unrealistic since they're teens that both can rush a relationship (Rinoa) and also be in denial of their own feelings (Squall), but messy to the point I didn't want to suspend disbelief for it and put up with it. If you're not Squall or Rinoa, you are not relevant past disc 2, and possibly even during disc 2 itself. Selphie and Irvine stick out most, but Zell and Quistis don't fare much better. Even Zell's Disc 3 leadership mission and exposition dump feel pointless because A. he failed the mission and B. we literally saw what he's talking about while Squall was in space, and Laguna exposits the same info 2 cutscenes later anyway. As for the romance, even if you pick the options that make Squall nicer and limit the amount of squabbling between him and Rinoa, it still feels forced. Special mention goes to the end of disc 2 into disc 3, where Squall, who's really, really busy trying not to get the students killed with bad leadership, is forced by the other party members to save Rinoa because they can't do it themselves for some reason and aggressively bitch at you to go do it, then when he does he points out in his thoughts that everyone else is so obviously trying to hook them up, then she winds up in a coma and Squall immediately takes an emotional 180. Not helping is if Rinoa was sent to the missile base, rendering her role and the relationship building lost since most of it happens while the Garden is lost at sea. Also not helping is how many times Rinoa needs rescued (once per disc) and how avoidable each one felt (even the coma one since the team already had a reason to go to Esthar thanks to Edea's guidance). I can see the potential in a romance between opposites, but it doesn't work for me here. I think some people (myself included) play FF8 with 2 specific mods for both plot and gameplay, Martial Law for gameplay, and Succession for story, since they're meant to remedy the common complaints. Not sure if you'll play it like that, but I thought it was worth bringing up.

[@aomccaskill81]

I played through about half the game about eight years ago. My impression was that it wasn't near as bad as some were saying. There are problems, though. Drawing magic can be a chore. The 'OMG we all came from the same orphanage and were raised by the sorceress but we forgot cause GF' plot point was too big a stretch. The Laguna subplot is boring. During the battle between the gardens, the whole subplot of 'oh no, Rinoa is about to fall off the side of the garden better rescue her' misplaces the focus on that climactic battle. That last one is something I never see anyone else bring up. I feel like the focus should be on the battle between the two gardens and not rescuing Rinoa. The way the event is presented divides focus between the two such that neither is really satisfying. The two plots don't build upon each other, one detracts from the other.

[@keltzy]

I'm glad you brought that last one up. I replayed the game recently and it actually made me hate my party members. I'm trying my best to protect the garden (because for some reason we decided that a single 17 year old boy needs to be responsible for the safety of everyone), and they're out here screaming at me about how heartless I am because I won't drop everything I'm doing to save Rinoa. And then once you finally manage to save her, they stop to have a random flirty scene in the middle of an active battlefield. I might have actually hated that whole bit more than the orphanage thing. At least the orphanage reveal didn't happen in a high-pressure scenario.

[@Dullshimmer]

It's been a long time since I've played FF8, but I always remember enjoying it overall. It's not my favorite in the series by any means, but was still a solid entry. I do remember being confused by the story and not sure I really understood what was going on. I was also not a huge fan of Squall with his whole loner brooding attitude, but I generally liked the rest of the cast and even Squall gets better over the game. I can understand why people don't like the game, but it's never been one I've disliked.

[@Counselor-yj8hk]

Something... something... orphanage, memory loss and the MOST CONTRIVED STORY PLOT i have EVER witnessed. Also, we were chasing Squall's older sister for reasons i forget because the story is just that disengaging at times. But Laguna was pretty cool, i guess.

[@olivierdubey5445]

I don't know man. I feel that people hated the plot mostly because it was not as straightforward as other FF stories. You kinda have to figure stuff out by yourself and you are not told everything from the get go. IMO this created a sort of mistery that I personally really enjoyed. And at the end, it everything kinda falls right in its place. Yes, you do have to deal with the idea that time is not linear and that it creates paradoxes. But incidentally linearity of time is an illusion IRL, so it just stimulates your wtf muscles, which I do enjoy. To each its own, I guess.

[@offthedeepend3996]

I like FF8. But I do not like the junction gameplay function. After the materia system in FF7, it was kind of hard to beat that.

[@sodathejunker]

It’s so odd how the perception of this game has shifted. As kids back in the late 90s-00s a lot of us loved it equally or in some cases more than FFVII, and I don’t think anyone ever complained about the characters, music and visuals. But the most contentious point, even as kids, was always the story and how it was told between Squall and Laguna, and how difficult it was to maneuver menus and junctioning. I adore the game, but my friends biggest complaints often revolved around “junctioning was lame” and “its a great love story but its horribly convoluted”. Fascinating stuff. But one objective truth: The Gunblade and Triple Triad are absolutely beloved.

[@cattysplat]

People absolute did moan about FF8 on the Gamefaqs forums back in the early 2000s.

[@music_games_other_stuff]

i love ff8, it was my first final fantasy game. i regret that i haven't complete it, but not a long ago we bought a copy of ff7/ff8 pack for nintendo switch, and i've played it till Ultimecia's castle, so i hope, i would finish it some day :) thanks for the video

[@DanielRitchie-qo4mv]

As for me, VIII was a game that had great parts. Due to time and being over abitious caused execution. Spoilers after this. The whole story about a witch traveling time and space to control all is great. Having an academy there to combat her when she returned is also great. Battle system ai thought was awesome myself. Draw system is tedious, but I loved the junction system. The whole we all were orphans, but forgot because GF with no real foreshadowing etc annoyed me, and Laguna freams felt like it was scrapped, but lets throw him at the end because we couldnt do anytbing else with him sucked also. The story felted patched in heavily after disc 1 to me too and pacing went all over the place from disc 2 on too. I dont mind some pacing issues, but VIII's story felt that way .

[@nimaiiikun]

I remember back then, FF8 was such a huge visual jump. regular sized characters, polygons with texture, and great cut scenes. I didn't mind the Junction system. One game which people changed opinions on is FF13. A lot of people hated it, but now there's a lot of love for it

[@YudaHnK]

Yes, ff13 is getting some love lately. Best part of the game is the ost

[@joshuawidener8407]

Lol nobody really hated ff13. People online hate everything lol. Your average person liked it

[@thegannerabraham]

I wouldn't say hate...but it's probably the worst in my opinion. There's nothing I like about it.

[@joshuawidener8407]

@@thegannerabraham and that's totally fair. I can think of plenty of other beloved franchises I don't care for from Halo to hollow knight to dark souls and so on. Not everyone is gonna love everything. I just make sure not to let it cloud my judgement that just because I didn't like those games, I won't deny they are massive successes!

[@Egeslean]

Bullshit, there's basically zero love for FF13, it was trash when it was released and it is still trash now, as are all of its sequels.

[@IronCrone]

“Perceived departure from traditional Final Fantasy elements,” nicely sums up the criticism of just about every iteration of a FF game. When I first played FF8, way back when, I didn’t enjoy it and I don’t recall why… I think I lost interest somewhere in the second act of the game. It wasn’t until later when I picked it back up and completed the entire story that I fell in love with the game. Beating Ultimecia and concluding the narrative, put the story in a perspective for me that made me appreciate the convoluted story telling that was really confusing in the first play through and made me play through it again to look for clues. Personally, I would still remember this game even without the Final Fantasy title attached to it. It was really different and the music is wonderful and I genuinely liked the main protagonist and was vested in their journey.

[@robertusmaximus42]

Erek loving all the new content. You've become one of my favorite content creators. FF8 was my first exposure to Final Fantasy and RPGs as a whole, even though FF7 was the first one I actually played. It had valid criticisms but I feel the hate is overblown. I had a friend back in the day who used to tell me it was his least favorite game ever. I never understood that but what can you do. It will always have a soft place in my heart

[@sparkfire22223]

I totally agree. 8 was my first game in the series and remained my favourite till Rebirth & Remake.

[@bastardferret869]

If ever remade, they need to make the GF/memory loss plot point meaningfully interactive. That is, you should be able to mitigate it in some way up to certain points in the story for characters to keep their memories. That either means junctioning certain spells, or not junctioning others, or limiting direct GF calls, etc.

[@octosalias5785]

You have to do things very specifically, when this information was hard to get, punishes you for leveling (incorrectly), plot pumps the brakes as soon as the hard to understand twist happens

[@johnnytheyoungmaestro]

Final Fantasy VIII will always be my favorite of the series. Not only did my brothers and I grow up with it and other games for the PlayStation 2, but I just love everything about it. The various ships you're on, the music, the characters, the beautiful open places and structures, and most importantly, the fact that you're traveling through time, playing all these different stories, and you even travel through time at the end of the game, where you all meet up for the final battle. I do also love how you fight against some of the Guardian Forces (GFs), in order for them to earn their trust and join your team. It will forever be one of my favorite video games of all time. :)

[@tokugijoo]

i wonder if there's a connection between people who don't have an inner monologue and people who can't relate to squall. i relate a lot to squall, but i can imagine it being difficult for someone to understand the struggles presented as internal monologue if it's not something that they have ever personally experienced.

[@tokugijoo]

@@Pezint 100% agreed. There's some interesting articles about it, worth the read through. When I first learned about it, I didn't believe it was real. I couldn't imagine not having an inner voice.

[@Elwood128]

There's no monologue, he's just an emo Cloud before we got emo Cloud 😂

[@tokugijoo]

​@@Elwood128 you mean all the transparent text windows weren't inner monologue?

[@vocalcalibration8033]

​@@Elwood128do you even know what an internal monlogur is?

[@thegannerabraham]

I just also don't like people so that made him more relatable.

[@PiedraDeIjada]

I wouldn't say I hate it but it is definitely my least favourite. Mainly due to the characters. Squall, Rhinoa, and Laguna were fine. But everyone else fell kinda flat with the shared backstory. It felt like the party members did not have own motivations as to why they are part of the team.

[@RiceDaddy07]

My biggest problem with Squall is that they keep making him a leader when he shows absolutely no leadership skills. There's even one hilarious scene (the one where they're trying to escape the self-destruction missile base) where they tell Squall to do something and he's freaking out and he just mashes buttons on the control panel. lol. It's so hilariously bad. I don't care that he's emo, an introvert and an asshole...but no way in hell is he a good leader.

[@Lastjustice]

It's as if they lacked any kind of "Squallity" control.

[@user-yv4mm6bx3c]

I loved most of the game and I was already a young man when I played it around 2004. The only thing I didn't like was drawing magic, so I fixed it. I just changed the menu option to "save last action." I selected to draw magic, put a piece of tape on the "X" button and had lunch. I kept an eye on character health and when I was at 100 cap I ended the battle. It's a quick way to get the magic and then move on to the things I enjoyed more, like the crazy story.

[@sparkfire22223]

haha that's amazing!!!! I wish I had thought of that!! I almost want to play the game again just to do that lol though I'd need to dig out my PS2!!

[@JediMB]

Like equipping Steiner in Final Fantasy IX with the Blood Sword and leaving a turbo controller on overnight during a sequence where an infinite number of battles can be fought by just standing still. Wake up the next day to Steiner being hideously overleveled. (Although my favorite overleveling method in IX is using Limit Glove into Eat on Grand Dragons long before you're supposed to be able to fight them.)

[@dognose8518]

where do you get the character art for your thumbnails?

[@songohan5866]

Ff brave evinvus war of the visions. It is a mobile game.

[@christopherthomas9218]

I have a big love/hate relationship with 8. It was the game that got me into the FF series and made me buy my first PS thanks to those over-the-top commercials for it. For me, the junction system was fine at the time but now I see why its more disliked by at least some since it can be annoying to 'play the way you want.' Story-wise, I didn't mind it until the end of disk 3 and honestly it was because I never bought Rinoa as a 'main' cast member. She felt fine as someone the others were helping get through some stuff but she felt so forced past that and just never felt like she didn't fit in (of course that's explained in the story, but it still felt forced). Plus Quistis is the best girl and I'll fight anyone on that.

[@SaltyZera]

Having played both 7 and 8 for more than 1,000 hours each (I own every physical and digital version of both games), I feel like I can weigh in pretty heavily here. Eight suffers from something I feel is akin to the “rebound” effect in video games. Especially as it pertains to sequels or follow-ups. Following Final Fantasy VII, inarguably the single most impactful video game of the entire series, was going to present an insurmountable obstacle for any title. I mean, even if it were 9, 10 or even 14’s Realm Reborn. Nothing was ever going to be good enough. Because most people are incapable of distancing themselves from what they were accustomed to in the most recent game of the series. Now. Eight clearly has flaws. The memory issues is an enormous problem that is literally only ever explained at one particular time in the game’s narrative and is NEVER brought up again. I believe it’s referenced in a book or console early on, but it’s not part of the actual games required storyline to read that reference. So it’s easily missed. Honestly. What saves the story for me is my own personal head cannon. Which is that Ultimecia always was and always will be Rinoa from the far distant future. And that our heroes, for whatever reason never come to terms with the acceptance or inevitability of fate and its hold on our lives. If you think about it. That could explain Squall being healed after such a grievous wound. That some part of Rinoa always still existed within Ultimecia and it’s that piece of her soul that chose to save him and heal his wound. It could also explain them being able to exit the void of Time Compression. Since it’s Ultimecia that casted the initial spell, that somehow Rinoa (who, chronologically has Ultimecia locked away within her psyche by this point) unknowingly undoes the spell upon finding Squall and saving them both. Again, I know it’s a stretch. But it’s honestly a story that makes a ton of sense. I know it’s been “debunked” by the story’s writers, producers and directors. But it’s honestly the best and most compelling version of the story to me. For those who aren’t aware, at the end of the game, Ultimecia travels back in time to transfer her powers to Edea. This sets up the events to come as Edea is the one that Future Ultimecia possesses to set the stage for everything to unfold. Yet, it is also this same Edea, who has Ultimecia’s powers within her, Rinoa absorbs both Edea and Ultimecia’s powers and is then likewise possessed by Future Ultimecia. Hell, Rinoa even absorbs Adel’s powers. And she was as much if not more than a mad sorceress than any of them. So it’s perfectly conceivable that something happens to Rinoa in the future that pushes her over the edge. Causing her to hate SeeD and she begins a campaign across time and space to bring about the end of all existence. Perhaps even in an attempt to undo whatever may have inevitably happened to her Squall in her own time. Which possibly triggers the entire tragedy of our timeline doomed to repeat this same exact pattern. So there you go. That’s why I feel 8 is an incredibly powerful and important story. But primarily only due to my own head cannon.

[@vsolyomi]

This one haunts my mind to this day. It's sorta my Roman Empire. I keep returning in my thoughts to if it is possible with certain checks and boundaries make the junction system work in a balanced enjoyable day. It has so much potential and nobody touched it since. Like if magic wasn't expended but strengthened from use and boosted your stats more as a result, so no draw, just fry them. Keep card mode but restrict card availability, decouple stat junctions from GFs to characters but keep bonuses on GF for synergy. Things like that. It was my first proper FF and I had start over 3 times. Love it.

[@tediz8280]

I prefer FF8 over 7 anyday.

[@brentgreen1379]

Glad your opinion is wrong

[@Elwood128]

Found the girl gamer

[@ItsSVO]

@@brentgreen1379Subjective opinions cannot be wrong. You are objectively stupid for not knowing this though. Well done.

[@Luzitanium]

@@brentgreen1379 not wrong, he is right, FF7 is FF8 for kids

[@XenogearsForever]

FF7 is overrated garbage. Xenogears shits on emo Cloud and the boring lifestream story. 😂

[@MrRPGcrazy]

For someone who has played and really studied the game. A decent amount of worldbuilding and lore are outside the main story. NPC dialogue is really important and pretty much change for every NPC everytime you change discs. FF8 has a datalog and alot of people dont know about it because the game does not mention it and Its really hidden within the menus(It also updates throughout the entire game). Balamb Gardens school desk does have some really juicy information aswell, that includes Selphies diary and Laguna magazines that you find throughout the world and can be read here. For example if you examine the school desk right away when you start a new game you will learn about Norgs Existence, and the "theory" that GFs cause memory loss(As soon as Quistis is done with the lecture).

[@matmacquarrie8566]

Drawing spells from enemies was needlessly grinding

[@travisflint7616]

I just replayed it on my mainline run. I haven't played it in over ten years. But this time around I actually liked it a lot better. I think understanding the game mechanics really help. Really nailing down the junction system is crucial, which is something I didn't truly grasp the first time. I also think the story was always pretty good. Maybe a little convoluted at times, but as a whole I liked it. The characters are pretty solid. The relationship between Squall and Rinoa is strong. It's a departure from other entries for sure. But I think if you stay with the status quo too long, you run the risk of fans getting bored. Innovation is important. It still felt like a Final Fantasy to me which was the most important thing.

[@deralmighty8011]

My biggest criticism of this game is the recurring concept of not asking questions. Don't ask questions. Don't question your orders. Do exactly what your mission or c/o says and nothing more. All the while seeming like it juat doesn't give enough depth to its conflicts and plot points.

[@KirbyGotenksabsorbed]

Squall constantly questions things though, and so does Rinoa really. Irvine also does so during the Sorceress assassination plot, though most people probably don't realize it. Perhaps a replay is in order (or reading glasses), assuming you really have played it.

[@Technasma]

Bro you even played it?

[@MrPoppunk182]

I'm like you and grew up loving FF8 (it's my favorite of the 3 PS1 era games) but I can totally understand where people have issues with the game, especially the gameplay and story elements. I think the beef with the Junction system wasn't necessarily its complexity but how it rendered other aspects of the game, such as casting magic, redundant or useless altogether. I don't know if I agree that it's a "choice" to either use your magic as magic, or junction it because the game clearly pushes the player towards the latter and there is zero benefit by not doing it. Plus the level scaling means you can take advantage of it and "break the game" by fighting as little as possible, not leveling up your character which keeps enemy levels low and then use the junction system to increase your stats making you wayyyyyyyyy OP. People also have issues with Squall being an absolute d-bag for 90% of the game. I get the whole "dark, brooding, cool guy" thing but they definitely take it a bit too far and again, I say that as a fan!

[@SpaceCat1111]

And here I'm just wondering why everyone hates on XIII so much. I know why VIII is my least favorite of the series.

[@FallenPhoenix-ml5mn]

Lol same

[@dearthofdoohickeys4703]

I mean every game has its haters. Send out a poll and you’ll find them, every time.

[@Excalibur1201]

For me, the problem with FFXIII is the overly complicated battle system and linear gameplay. I made it 12 hours into the game and it was still explaining how the battle system works. Also, up to that point play areas were tunnels with a couple branches that lead to items. It felt like a step backwards from FFXII.

[@trigun442]

I recently downloaded FF8 remaster on the PS5 and got the platinum. I used tonplay it over and over again during my youth from the PS1 and PS2 days. I've played FF games from 1-12, tactics, 7 remake and 7 rebirth but FF8 is my most favorite out of all.

[@HazmanFTW]

The Junction system isn't even hard, as a kid I understood how it worked. From what I've heard a lot of people don't like the game once you split up into the Squall led party and Irvine led party as people don't realise the enemies are scaled to your average party level and Squall is normally like 10+ levels higher than everyone else at that point so when you switch to Irvine it becomes very hard as the enemies are quite above your party level. Triple Triad is the best.

[@GoeTeeks]

The enemies' levels are always based on the party average of who is in the party at the time. Squall being 10+ levels higher but not in the party doesn't affect the scaling as much as Squall being 10+ levels higher and IN the party does.

[@HazmanFTW]

@@GoeTeeks oh is it? I always had thought it was the total party

[@GoeTeeks]

@@HazmanFTW Nope just active party.

[@oner64]

I feel like one of the reasons people hated ff8 was because back in the day a guy named Spoony hated the game so much he put out like 8 videos on why the game sucks and he got a following and his fans started hating the game because they were fans of his and it bled to everywhere else. I very much remember the love the game had when it first release

[@theopeneyes]

FF8 on PC does have the benefit of player made mods that modify the gameplay. The Raganarok mod probably being the most notable with it rebalancing a lot of the game including removing the enemy level scaling, giving characters more built in stat gains from level ups and removing the cap on drawing spells.

[@joseponte5802]

The common complaint/hate was the junction system and enemies leveling with you. I always feel it is just people saying "I can't mindlessly overlevel to beat the next section of the game"

[@soldierorsomething]

The junction system screwed me over as a kid since i did not know english and just wanted to get to the action and kill stuff so i basically skipped all tutorials and somehow managed to get to the bosses in LUNATIC PANDORA, After beating FUJIN and RAJIN there, the next boss just wiped the floor with me and only years later i discovered that the game had a junction system and i felt like an idiot ;D

[@HonestEmillHead]

Its just a trend , ff8 is a great game, have problems? Sure ff7 also have and 6 and so on , people just love to hate

[@JamesStrifeMusic]

Herd mentality.

[@cedricnzakou6143]

It’s a bad game

[@HonestEmillHead]

@@cedricnzakou6143 why?

[@cedricnzakou6143]

@@HonestEmillHead i tried to finish the game 3 times. I never did it. Twice I stop before the last dungeon. The story has too many elements from FFVII like using G force scramble our head, but it also overall don’t make sense. Plus most people don’t like the cast and only consensus is Laguna part is good, he is a side character. Did you get attached to Selphie or Zell or anyone else ?

[@HonestEmillHead]

@@cedricnzakou6143 the cast is fine they fullfill their role in the story, plus is the secon best love story in the franchise behind 10, the gameplay is solid ,the character progression is awesome once you understand it, the graphics where great for the time it was released and looks good with the remaster today, the cards mini game is one of the best in the saga. The story sometimes is bad yes, have his flaws but you could say the same thing about 7 and 6 that are two of the most beloved entries.

[@jonpeters2922]

Grinding is extremely important in ff8 not just the characters but also for ap and summons abilities

[@riqua27]

Now i actually want to clarify the biggest criticism regarding FFVIII orphanage scene. First of all i don't think plot contrivance are necessarily a bad thing. Story are always written with contrivance to begin with. The issues that people have are usually the fact that it came out of nowhere and how convenient. Does it came out of nowhere? No!!! All the story elements about GF are explained in the game if you actually go around and explore the world. A lot of dialogue talk about GF drawback. Yes some of those dialogue can be missed if you just ignore everything. Is it convenient? Kinda but that's also kinda the point. Even in the orphanage scene. Irvine mention how fate might be a set stone. The end of the game we learn how everything is part of the loop. A big grand of fate. I will say this I think FFVIII story issue is that's it's trying hard to be subtle. Which is why the game is so divisive. As people who try to understand the story love it while people who just give it glance just wrote it off as being bad!!!

[@armorvil]

Also don't forget that Irvine remembered them from the start, hence his "we're destined to be together!", etc.

[@smb0621]

While I understand what you’re saying, that so many people thought the orphanage connection was so lackluster (including myself as a kid) may reveal that the presentation of the revelation may have genuinely been lacking. What maybe seen as subtly may actually be poor handling. The plot of FF8 is pretty wacky, which is part and parcel for FF’s in general. But the game could’ve really benefited from some further consideration of clarity on its presentation and its themes. FF9’s themes of the brevity of life, the reality of death, and the preciousness of our time comes out loud and clear. FF7’s themes of accepting our identity and our limitations in preventing tragedy (and healing from them) also comes out loud and clear. FF8 has themes of fate and destiny and …something. It’s less tangibly accessible, which may therein lie why it’s less fondly remembered by some. It’s not to say the convenience and contrivance are inherently bad, but the intended message may not have come out as clearly as it should. Personally I was fond of the diverse cast from games past, and found the convenience and homogeneity of background a net negative-but it still could’ve been a worthy plot point even if it weren’t my preference. But honestly, it seems reasonable the point of said contrivance just didn’t land as well as hoped, which again, may be why the game is perceived as a let down. Still better than FF13 though, which had a similar message. And FF15, which I like to think of as a beautiful skeleton with no connective tissue. All great elements but patchworked together due to its odd long development.

[@riqua27]

@@smb0621 VIII has a theme of Love & connection. The whole plot you follow through Squall adventures and we see that Squall is a character that doesn't want to connect with anyone. We learn the reason why is because Squall is afraid of making connections. Afraid of the thought that connection might slip away. This is also what makes Laguna and Squall story work as a foil of one another. Laguna's connection to Ellone led him to try to save her. But by doing that he lost a connection to the one he loved the most Raine. This is also another reason I think what makes the Orphanage scene get misunderstood. The whole thing was never meant to present as a plot twist or anything. It was meant to establish the reality of how fragile the connection can be. Despite them growing up together as the memories are gone. They lost all semblance of connection that they ever had. The story gives us the idea of how important it is to create said Connection while also telling us that losing it is really painful. Ultimecia's whole motivation is to stop the progress of time. That way he won't be able to go back to the painful past or forward to uncertain future. In a way mirroring Squall's journey of him not wanting to make connections.

[@Egeslean]

You might have had a point if that one cowboy dude (can't be bothered to remember his name, he was the WORST character of them all IMO) didn't remember EVERYTHING! That, by itself, basically threw their 'memory loss' BS out the window instantly. It contradicted itself hard and made it obvious the entire thing was poorly conceived and executed even worse.

[@riqua27]

@@Egeslean That's goes to show you don't pay attention to the Story. Balamb is the only garden that utilizes GF. Irvine(The Cowboy dude) came from Galbadia. And Galbadia didn't use GF. It's even shown when you fought Cerberus that Squall Surprise that Galbadia owns a GF. So how could he lose his memory when he's not even Using GF?

[@HelloItsMikkan]

I actually like grinding Levels in ff8 due to 2 things... 1. You can get better spells drawn from higher level enemies. 2. Once you master several GFs Certain abilities, they can learn Stat Levelling Skills like HP Up, Str Up and etc .. (specifically Ifrit, Siren , Bahamut and etc.) these abilities when equipped add an additional point of stat on each level up. Cactuar GF has all the Stat increasing Ability(HP, Strength, Vitality, Magic and Spirit) so its better to grind later once you obtain that GF.

[@BLa-lq2bs]

FF8 is one of my favs (10,7,8 in that order). I think the loudest voices are always the haters. It’s a great game. To be fair, 7’s plot has a lot of things that are to be left up to interpretation. It’s only the compilation that has cleared up things. 8 doesn’t have that luxury. Also, for me 8’s ending was more satisfying. It was a happy ending (weird theories aside, just taking it as is). 7’s was questionable.

[@keiichi8191]

I probably sunk 40 hours into the FF8 demo that came with Brave Fencer Musashi, just replaying it again and again. As a Sega kid up until I got my first PlayStation, I never played any of the classic games, but VIII has always been one of my favorites in the post-Nintendo era. 1997-1999 was really peak time to be a gamer imo.

[@cylith5627]

I have zero nostalgia for the PS1 era FFs. My parents never bought them for me when I was that young. So I've been making my was through them as an adult. I completed OG FF7 back in January and FF8 in March(I'm starting 9 soon). I truly believe it's insane levels of Nostalgia goggles for this era. I fully respect what they did for RPGs, but I fail to see the nuance people find in them. You'd think they were Shakespeare to people. To clarify: I ONLY mean with information as PRESENTED IN GAME. No outside sources. So no interviews, Ultimanias, or other games. ONLY in the base game. As for 8, I felt the least for this party. Especially Squall. No matter how great his design is, the Gunblade is one of my favorite weapons of all time, he was not written well. He almost out of nowhere loves and cares for Rinoa. When prior to the attack on Balamb Garden he ignores and is rude to her. I get that its her breaking down his walls, but its SO instantaneous for Squall. From "whatever..." To "We need to save Rinoa!!! Where is she?!?! i cant live without her!!!" I did not like Junction with the draw system in particular. Having to sit in a fight for extra time just to draw was obnoxious. Also, to be strongest you only Basic Attack or use skills, not Magic because of Junction. Then also not having control of your Limit Break is also annoying (which I hear is also a thing in 9...yay). Triple Triad was a lot of fun, if not a bit obtuse on getting the best cards and rules. Still a very fun card game.

[@GoeTeeks]

FFVIII makes up for its lack of control of Limit breaks (which, you get a lot of control for most of the characters) with its ability to spam the hell out of them. It's so easy to sit in a battle at low HP constantly use limits and never let the boss get a turn in because limits have priority when queued up.

[@GoeTeeks]

Also, I never really had trouble with the story the first time I played it (when I was a teenager). It's really not that confusing, and a couple of playthroughs can clear up quite a bit of the confusion as well. Although the game was rushed and they had to cut a lot of content, I still understood most of what was going on.

[@tesgansystem6358]

In my opinion, a lot of people don't understand Squall's journey during the game. The love he feels for Rinoa was allways there, since the ballroom scene. Squall gets jelous 2 times (when Rinoa was expecting Seifer in the train and when they talk about Seifer's "death" in Galbadia). Then, you have the prission break and FH scenes. Squall is like he is because he used to be needy as a child with Eleone and, after the White Seeds take her away, he (wrongfuly) thinks that solitude equals strength. It's only when hi gets in a similar situation (Rinoa blacking out) when his insecurities kick in, that's why he seems desperate. P.S: I hope you don't see this coment as somethig ill intended; I read your whole comment and I liked what you said. 😎✌🏻

[@1Tekkaman]

You invalidated your entire argument when you invoked nostalgia.

[@EntertheFray1]

People don't realize their feelings towards someone are as strong as they are, or they take it for granted. It's only when they are on the verge of losing that person that they realize they may have been taking it for granted or just how strong those feelings are. I've seen people almost lose their mother/father from a sudden heart attack or something similar, and as a result of that, grow closer. Sometimes it's just someone fading away or not prioritizing them that makes them miss them. I think that reaction Squall had to Rinoa had is one of the most realistic because of that, he's finally coming to terms with something he didn't want to admit.

[@materiahunter8443]

If I were to refine the junction system I would do a couple of things. First, make it so you can attack and draw at the same time. You can can still draw without attacking if you want to(in case you want to keep the enemy alive). But having a draw-mug option would be nice. Second, when do draw magic it would be an unrefined non-elemental magic. Then use your gf to refine it into something useful. I never really liked certain spells being tied to specific cards or items.

[@smharyanto4660]

Its a game that punished you for grinding, its like they are forget this is a rpg

[@wahidpawana424]

You won't know unless you have an internet or strategy guide.

[@Maverick842]

My friends and I loved FFVIII, and I was the one that really got the junctioning system. My friends asked me to junction their characters, and they’d start complaining when I’d take Ultima out of strength and put it in defense, but then they’d start breezing through things and they’d be all ‘ok maybe you were right’

[@jayzeigel5772]

Is it? I like it better than 7, in fact its a cult favorite.

[@darkenkil4416]

8 is hands down the best story, game play and cast of any final fantasy. Most people who claim to hate the game didn't play it when it released and never finished it because they were too busy letting you tubers who make their living shitting on everything make their opinions for them. Spoony Experiment is the first such review I have seen. The amount of gameplay depth and story depth and just care and attention overall given to VIII is incredible. VIII is the best final fantasy game hands down.

[@courve]

The problem is that nothing mattered despite the game pretending otherwise. Didn’t matter that we were SeeDs, Irvine pretended to have memory loss for no reason. The mysteries such as Squall maybe dying or what the deal was with the Sorceress went nowhere. Even Laguna, who was cool, basically amounted to “he was almost a movie star, and now he’s just a deadbeat dad who runs Wakanda”. Also, In case you ever end up stranded in space without a ship, or a way even move, there will be a dragon zord you can borrow.

[@sparkfire22223]

lol fair enough BUT... that game absolutely captured my heart! I loved the love story! I loved the mystery! For me - the many 'plot holes' made for a lot of fun for me as a creative person filling the holes or seeing what the chat was about it online. When you look at the fan-fiction & story-telling culture around FF8 there's nothing like it before or since... plot holes that are JUST plot holes don't inspire audiences in that way - but for some reason there was huge speculation over the game and intruige. To my mind there really isn't an objective outcome here other than what the stats show (which is that it's a hugely successful game) and it really comes down to individual preference. To me there was so much wealth in the world they created I'd go as far as saying that game changed my life and took me out of some pretty deep & dark places as a child... any game that can do that for a person... is a good game. In my opinion 🙂

[@lightm1019]

Ff8 spoilers I guess, Obviously you didn’t pay much attention to the subtle details the game threw your way: “Didn't matter that we were SeeDs”, of course it does, did you even finish the game???? Edea sees a man who looks either teenager or at least 20, and that’s why everyone who is above 20 cannot remain in Garden, the whole thing is made for Squall, because that’s who Edea saw. If they have older people in who in their right mind would’ve prioritized a teenager over others with more experience? Also, it is worthy to note that Cid by telling Squall that it is his destiny to fight the sorceress means he and Edea have been waiting for something to happen for a long time (13 years) and sure thing the event in the game starts with Squall’s first mission or the reveal at the very least. “Irvine pretended to have memory loss for no reason” what do you mean he pretended? He never lost his memories, the memory loss thing apply to the other because of the use of GFs, I hate it when fans say, well no one lost their memory during the game, and I kept wondering didn’t Selphie’s story implied that it takes month/year? The events in game is way less than 2 weeks at best :/ “The mysteries such as Squall maybe dying” well, powerful witches can heal whoever they want, and didn’t she want Ellone’s power, who was Ellone running to during game? So, maybe there is a reason why Ulti wouldn’t want Squall dead just yet. Again, subtle and lost on so many people _-_; “Also, In case you ever end up stranded in space without a ship, or a way even move, there will be a dragon zord you can borrow.” It’s the same one the Wakanda guy sent to space to get rid of an evil hag called Adel 13 years ago, my guess the other two were on their path to the nearing sun.

[@courve]

@@sparkfire22223 I enjoyed 8(and I didn’t like 7), but I’m not sure the stats have a single interpretation. It seems that that each major platform shift seemed to do well, and then the sales of the original release drop. So 7 did amazing, then 8 sold less than 7, and 9 sold less than 8 coming down from the momentum of 7. 10 did amazing, then 12 - 16 did less work in a linear fashion coming off that momentum.

[@sparkfire22223]

@@courve That's fair - but in a metric that measures whether a game is good or not - the fact is 8 retains consistent sales over a protracted period compared to franchises whose sequel games were GENUINELY bad - where they dropped off the market completely. I don't think the success of 8 is purely the result of the momentum of 7 for that reason.

[@sparkfire22223]

@@lightm1019 Good answer - FF8 had loads and LOADS of depth easily missed by the same unintelligent folks who struggled to understand the junction system.

[@jonbradley4044]

I think it suffers greatly having to follow in the footsteps of 7, which is arguably one of the greatest games of all time. I struggled to get into 8, i wanted to like it but i never ended up finishing. That said, the segments with Laguna and "the man with the machine gun" were great.

[@bozodluffy1818]

I don’t actually personally know anyone who hates 8, only people who love it. Me though, I’m a 13 defender 🤷🏽‍♂️

[@zeromagnum2811]

i liked 13. But the game suffers big from having too much of the story in the data log. it felt unfinished and rushed because of that

[@jaykknight2248]

I support people who defend their favorite! I ride hard for 5.

[@jaykknight2248]

@@80n3y4rd like a Chocobo rider!!!

[@seapeajones]

It was 13 that got me finished with ff.

[@chewface]

I loved FF8. The characters look the same in and out of combat (fixing that Popeye nonsense from FF7), the cinematics STILL hold up to this day, the story was cool, the combat was fun, and the environments were diverse. That card game was also surprisingly fun. The issue...is nostalgia. FF7 hit us with the novelty of that cinematic multi-disc RPG odyssey. It was incredible. It set the new standard. It got imprinted onto our hearts. FF8 was technically better in every way.....it just had the misfortune of coming out second.

[@stegsjenga5088]

What I don't get is people hating on the characters. Someone below said there was "low character development". Seriously?!!! The internal monologue makes it a much more thoughtful game than any other in the series, and the depth of characterisation is so much more ambitious than any other entry. Maybe that's why people don't like it? Part of me thinks that the game explores experiences of immaturity, weakness and confusion and people who are immature, and feel weak and confused, and prefer to just close off thinking about all that, react negatively as a result.

[@angeleyesjr9676]

This game holds a special place in my heart it's memories I cannot explain but the music the feeling of being a teen in love giving characters names of those who meant the most to you final fantasy created a way to open your heart!😭

[@dannypatrick9361]

Its very simple. There are 2 reasons. 1. The Junction system makes Magic unusable. 2. GF memory loss insults the audience.

[@xmgentertainment]

Just don't use the magic that you have attached to your stats you can use other magic that's not attached to your stats so you can't attach every magic to your stats

[@dannypatrick9361]

@@xmgentertainment Yes, but you're obviously going to attach all the best magic to your stats, leaving all of the good magic unusable. Hence, my original comment.

[@KirbyGotenksabsorbed]

Magic is very usable and even abuseable if you aren't a complete brainlet, and that goes for grasping the latter point as well.

[@xmgentertainment]

@@dannypatrick9361 if you use the best magic for your stats that's cool but not everybody plays that way and the game doesn't force you to do so also there are item magic in the game that you can also use but I guess everybody forgot that

[@finalcam1740]

@@KirbyGotenksabsorbed wrong

[@Luzitanium]

I always see FF7 as being FF8 for kids, while FF8 is for grown ups.

[@kojirosasaki8129]

Same. Ffviii gives a much more mature vibe

[@dtcharo]

If you were conditioned to run around in a circle and hold down the Accept button until you reached an appropriate level to advance the plot then you're probably experiencing a system shock with VIII. If your first JRPG was FF VII then you're probably going to experience system shock with VIII. A sizable portion of people that complain about the supposed plot contrivances in VIII tend to either a. be willfully ignorant of b. oblivious to c. outright deny the plot contrivances in the other games in the franchise. There are valid critiques of all the games in the franchise but I often find a lot of the negative discourse stemming from the people playing the games succumbing to the self-fulfilling prophecy brought on by poor choices. On the other hand, people are just allowed to not like things. I think the Internet has given rise to the vocal minority and that created a bandwagon effect. That's going to have a knock-on effect for many years but over time things have panned out where FF VIII is more fondly remembered that it was previously. The same thing happened with Final Fantasy IX and now that game is probably one of the most beloved in the franchise. I'm just happy to see FF II finally starting to get some appreciation after being almost universally panned for decades.

[@soldierorsomething]

In my childhood, everyone that hated FF 8, played FF7 as their first FF game ever and for my first FF game, it was the FF8 and back then it was also a competition of what game had the best graphics vs gameplay (i think that everyone that plays their first FF game, then that game will be their favorite forever)

[@SenseiThimii]

Final Fantasy 8 is a classic, no matter how many people want to hate on it. I respect players who says FF8 is not their cup of tea, or feel dissapointed after VI or VII. But I absolutely disqualify your opinion as gamer if you call it trash or something. There is this Jared youtuber, who talks major nonsense in his ”reasoning” of games bad quality. And others. I will not go truly deep with my reasonings in youtube comment section but I think it is silly when people dramatizes FF8s so called negative aspects. Like the story, it has some bad plot points true, but what JRPG is actually masterclass of storytelling hmm? Even the nonsense of them being from same orphanage, is explained in games themes as them being the children of fate. Sloppy? Yes. Fun and exciting, even as adult? F yeah. Really cant understand why people keep bitching about the leveling or the junction system. You can do ANYTHING with it, yeah tutorials are hard to take in, but even I understood most nuances in my teens, as a european with limited English. Yeah, there are flaws but calling game trash is just silly. You COULD BREAK the game if you like to. Okay, show me any of these critics who actually did it? You need to play the game couple times before you are even remotely in the know of doing something like that. OS sorry, there are other peoples opinions who you can reflect upon, Sorry. Biggest silly downtalk is the whole drawing of magic and junctioning of it. Every, I mean every critic is the same. You HAVE TO draw 100 of each spell. And you CANT USE any magic. Because, here is the big plot twist, your stats go down. Oh nooooo! How cruel. Seriously that is always such an insight, that I want to smack my head to the wall. You for one dont need to draw anything if you feel like it, or you can do with 10-50, if you choose so. You can get every spell pretty much later on in MANY ways than drawing. It is insane that people continue to say this is a huge minus when they make their issues of the matter themselves. Second thing the stat decreasing. Like wtf, you can get those magic back, anyday if you want when you learn the game a bit. And when those stats drop like couple numbers, from using some of those ”magic items”, wt actual F is the difference? There is no need to play the game all stats maxed. You dont do it in any other jrpg presumably. I have played this game from 14 to now almost 40 years old. Still think it is just as big of jrpg giant, as 7 or 9. Those both games has issues, but only 8 gets the hate from players, and I do admit it, very reasonably so. Game is not simple, and it has some issues, but hardly as breaking as some critics make it out to be. Oh, I did not even start on the positives. So…

[@Sylkis89]

It's funny how my experience with the junction system was the opposite of what most people's were. When I 1st played FFVIII I barely knew any English at all, so I had no idea what I'm doing most of the time, I would be just interpreting everything from the context seeing things happen on the screen. It was amazing for replayability of games BTW, I had several games that, as my English progressed literally learning the language from them for the most part, each playthrough was like experiencing a new story, because I would be actually understanding what's going on instead of relying on filling in the gaps with my mind. But FFVIII was my first RPG game ever, so I didn't have experience yet, I didn't have expectations from other games. And I remember that at some point, I got stuck in Delling City cause I didn't know the language to understand what I need to do (not without a walkthrough in Polish, or some friend instructing me cause they figured it out). And I remember spending days walking around the world map. And when my friend told me what to do, I remember one-shotting Seifer at the end of Disc1. What I assume happened, when aimlessly walking around I was grinding without understanding what I'm doing, probably using Draw a lot cause someone told me that if I don't I will miss out on GFs, and escaping fights a lot because I didn't know how to use healing magic and items properly. In fact, with healing during battles I relied solely on Potions an GFs, since I NEVER used magic at all (I didn't like it that you use it up so I just used it as inventory), I didn't set Magic to be an accessible command in battle for any of my characters, everyone was Attack, GF, Draw, Items. And I probably broke the system unwittingly lol and later on, when replaying FFVIII after already understanding English and having extensive experience with RPGs, I could never replicate this no matter the amount of grinding (regular grinding for levels like in any other game). It was only after I started reading how other people are breaking the system is that I realised what must have happened when I was having my first playthroughs and why I could never get the same results later on lol I yet need to try to give it another go to actually beat this game, this time understanding the quirks of the system and how to exploit them. Still it's always been one of my fav games ever, partially because of nostalgia that it was my first game besides Atlantis The Lost Tales, but also the music and visuals are just SUPERB and it's just still loads of fun with a ton of coolness factor. I'm pretty sure Squall's design back in the day contributed to that I became a metalhead later on lol he was the gateway drug for the aesthetic lol I think most of the hate is undeserved and it's just people being salty it's not more of FFVII back in the day, and nowadays it just didn't age well like most of games from the era.

[@BRLN1]

i think it is the first playthrough that really sells the game, especially if it was your entry into the FF game series. You are on a mission driven pilgrimage through a world, that contiunuosly evolves and unveils ever more fantastic places & happenings up to the point where it becomes surreal. The whole journey constantly pushes you forward through a convincing stage play to maintain immersion. However as soon as you try to look back to make sense of everything, the world building suddenly crumbles apart over its piles of gaping lore holes.

[@gloweye]

Cure magic is a thing. That's a pretty good reason why Squall is healed from Edea's Ice Strike. It's the reverse of Aerith's death with "just use phoenix down lmao".

[@Kainy13579]

I played the heck out of ff8 as a kid, used to do no GF runs(still used for junction), no level runs, etc. its very versatile with the junction system if you know what you're doing, oh and triple triad can help break the game quick...

[@arciks11]

It's a game that actively discourages you from using your best magic, since you're better off junctioning it.

[@mramisuzuki6962]

As an OG gamefaqs user and main opinion was the game was designed around having a guide. Online was a novelty and the SEO was going to launch soon. They wanted to seek guides and FF8 was a major factor for that.

[@dustincompton992]

Yeah, my issues with the game are the Draw/Junction system and the level scaling. I’ll grant that the D/J is an interesting concept, but I just don’t think it worked out well. As for the level scaling, HELL NO. I have yet to see that implemented well in ANY game. Players should not be punished for choosing to spend time with your game.

[@brichan1851]

I adore *Final Fantasy VIII* . I think it’s so u under appreciated. Having it on PS1, Switch, and (soon to be) PS4, just makes me happy. One of the hardest games I have ever beaten, I actually had a Pocket Station and was able to make use of it to enhance my characters. As they were all at Level 99 when I got to the end, Ultimecia kicked my ass, until my Knights of the Round kicked in and saved me. I fought her for 6 months, and lost every time, until I finally won. It was a magical moment.

[@georgeo5752]

I always loved this game. And I never even got the "complex" junction system complaints. Even when I was 10 years old I found the junction system fairly easy to grasp. It was actually really quite simple. The only issue was drawing magic being kind of a pain. I was not a huge fan of levelling up being a negative tho. But that is my only significant criticism

[@blakewilliams5627]

4:35-you should be looking to draw magic from any enemy/monster you have a battle encounter with. You should also use your other party members like a bank to store magic.

[@lerigan]

One of FFVIII’s themes is destiny. I think the characters having grown up together in the orphanage, gone their separate ways, forgotten all about each other, and *still* ending up together in the end is a nice thematic adherence. They were always fated to be there for each other in the end.

[@ByroniusHuge]

FFVIII was my first FF so I have a soft spot for it. That being said, its not perfect, but the fact that it doesn't have linear leveling and enemies scale with you, and you can get around drawing via the card game, always made it so much more replayable to me. It's really rewarding to learn the systems and unlock powerful things early. It always feels to me like it rewards combat knowledge which is on flavor for the story. I'd love to see a remake or a game with similar systems balanced for better pacing since you steamroll everything but super bosses by end of disc 1 (iykyk) No one could tell me its bad, but I can see where it isn't everyone's cup of tea. Great vid!

[@theemporium5899]

I never knew final fantasy games and this was my first. I was a teen. The love story, the friend-zoning, the card collecting as well as the epic challenge of trying to defeat certain monsters namely weapons hahaha without internet cheats and only a handbook from a UK gaming mag made it a truly enjoyable experience. Boy I had way too much time back then to figure things out 😂

[@solomarvelchampion]

I enjoy FF8 for what it is! The first time through - before you really understand how junctions alter everything and before you realize the enemies level up with you - can be brutal, but once you know it becomes a really cool game imo. My favorite will always be FF7 because it was my first, but I replay FF6 - FF9 every year.

[@arisrayden]

difficulty/stat wise the best option is to try and never ever level up and do everything via junctioning and gf abilities. thats the reason bosses don't drop exp but ap. carding monsters doesnt drop exp but ap as well and finally there are the cactuar enemies in the south eastern destert who while dropping exp only drop a miniscule amount of exp and a whopping 20AP. learning encounter none asap and only fighting on your terms to not level up while also getting some powerful spells early on completely trivializes any boss fight..... gosh i love this game

[@tarnhill5890]

One thing you missed w/ level scaling is that certain items are only obtainable by monsters of a certain level. So if you are too high level at certain points in the game you can't get the parts for example to upgrade a weapon and have to wait until later. Its been a good 24-25 years since I've played this so I don't remember the details but the junction system and worrying about timing item drops etc was always annoying.

[@blockmasterscott]

Yeah, I also had a hard time with upgrading weapons because of the level scaling.

[@GilbertGuilford]

The junction system was perfectly fine and so was the tutorial for it. It was only a problem for smooth brains that skipped through all Quistis' dialog and later cried about it. Only sphere grid in FFX gave players more options in building characters compared to junction system. One of my favorite parts about FF8 was how much every system was interconnected and nothing felt like insular element. Only negatives I had with FF8 were chocobo forests, the abomination that is a chocobo theme and all the cut content (mostly from disc 4).

[@aistyle6688]

One of the best game in my childhood memories. The adventure and the unexpected secrets, guardian forces, maps and areas throughout the games. Keep me excited for more. It was also my first Final Fantasy game even before I started playing Final Fantasy seven and I could say that it was and still is one of the best Final Fantasy game out there, so I had no clue why people hated this game so much.

[@L1ntaur]

Loved FF8 when it came out. Still love it. While I do agree with some criticisms with junction system, the junction system at the same time makes the game easy when you figure out how to maximize its effects. I always assumed that Squall didn't die from Edea's attack was because she hit him in the shoulder (which wouldn't be a lethal hit) and wanted to interrogate him to get more information from him as he was the one who originally told her about SeeD when goes back in time at the end of the game.

[@NDCCMTX]

I didn't like FF8 mainly because it had the BIGGEST potential and failed in execution. I loved: • the music • the world map • the departure from traditional FF story • Laguna's story I hated: • that the game felt disjointed and didn't follow good storytelling like having continuity. Ellone's "power" wasn't found in anyone else. • the lackluster characters and how we found them (all were "students" about the same age). There was little variety in ages, background, or skills. • the final boss fell short and had no connection with the party. • that Squall was more of an edge lord than a _cool, quiet_ protagonist. He felt like a Cloud knock-off. • the orphanage plot twist was weak and the GF memory loss wasn't found in any other plot with anyone else.

[@nesoukkefka1741]

I think I have been bless in the sense that it was my very first JRPG, so I had no preconsive notion of what a JRPG gameplay should be, and how a JRPG should play, since this was my first contact with the genre I was also very attentive to the explanation the game give me, and take my time reading the tutorial section (it's actually pretty helpful, especially the section that list the possible refines when you unlock the corresponding abilities), maybe that's why I have a hard time understanding why people say they struggle understanding how the Junction system works when 7 years old me with 0 JRPG experience understood it, and I even manage to break it on my own, a common critic I see is to break the game you need to play card a lot and have a guide, and truly no as a kid I broke the early game this way : -I found the fishs method of grinding AP on my own, and conviniently when scrolling to the GF abilities, the refine abilities were the one that catch my eyes, so learning the I-mag-RF I got Waters which obviously are really strong at this point. -Later on when I got Siren, I learn L-Mag-RF and watching in the tutorial, realise I could just buy Tent and refine them in Curaga.... the game didn't need to ask me twice XD, and there you go huge improvment to HP that would carry through pretty 50% of the game XD -Later on the third boss drop 16 Wizard Stones, which I simply refine into I think it was 80 Thundagas at the time, that I used and junction. -Even later I finally unlock Card Mode and needless to say all hell break luce, yet I wasn't playing the mini game that much, but I had no second thought in Modding Rare Card, the big at the time was the Sacred Card 100 Dino Bones to get 100 Quakes for everyone very strong to junction at that point, I hadn't found Zell or Quistis card at the time would have been funny XD. Anyway just being curious carry me through the game without much issues, despite that I was leveling up, didn't realise how spammable Limit Breaks were or how easily you could get Invincible (miss the Laguna Card obviously). Have to say tough leveling up and not knowing the "cheap" tactics while the game was easy for the most part, it made for a pretty intense Final Boss fight, it's easy to cheese the all game and not realising it but compare to the rest of the storyline bosses and even to some optionnal bosses, the Final Boss is actually a pretty huge step in difficulty, and was my only struggle in my first playthrough as a kid.

[@JChaosMaster]

Me, I hated 8 for specifically 2 reasons. 1 was the magic system. I hated the draw systems. 2 was the guest party members. Because if you transfer your magic that might have taken you hours to drain is then yeteed into a black hole the second they leave the party.

[@mrskye08]

Funny i actually liked the junction system. I also liked the enemy levelling. Draw system, not much but it's tied to mag stat so once i knew what I'm doing I'm fine. Ff8 was my 1st ff and i got hooked. After ff8 i tried other ffs and was surprised how "normal" stat levelling is on other final fantasies..

[@sparkfire22223]

Yeah I loved the junction system too - loved figuring out strategies that would break the game before leaving Balamb Island to go on the Seed mission lol

[@Lylelivesinellwood]

This was my first Final Fantasy game. It is also my favorite. Soundtrack is beyond perfect.

[@videogamesspaoldschool]

That point of no return on disc 4, disappointed me so much. Level scaling can be solved, the moment you take Tomberry GF.. It has ability Level Down or Up. There is another thing that bothered me in this game, and that thing is not been able to find some crucial items in game, such as strength up, and so forth.

[@MarcusSanchez2525]

The Junction system is my biggest gripe with the game, I have only beaten FF 8 once and I had no idea what I was doing half the time because I didn’t understand the junction system and I even had to use a glitch to get Selphies The End move so I could beat the witch boss that transports you to the future because I couldn’t leave the area. I do have the urge to try again but I am not going to do the triple triad grind like I tried did before I do not find it very fun to play and it burned me out.

[@ElHipokondriako]

I'm playing it now, and the largest plothole by far is at the beginning of CD2, "Why is Irvine not in prison with the rest"? Also, I went in blind to the orphanage scene. I kid you not, it's so forced that I though that Edea or Eleone were messing up with their memories, or maybe altering them indirectly by altering the past. But nope, we are just rolling with it. It was very experimental, technically impressive, it has so many good things, it's extremely influential (see X amd XIII) but it's a weak entry on its own. It's not only overshadowed by VII, but also by IX.