Why Does God Support Slavery? - The Atheist Experience

[@GodlessScummer]

Matt Dillahunty is a hypocrite. He's against slavery but he owns so many Christian callers. :-)

[@benjaminmiller3032]

Hahaha savage

[@dadnonlyd3]

nice one

[@Wiseman300BC]

MrMetalover666 hahahaha

[@christopheradams5607]

MrMetalover666 I see what you did there.

[@ramommeke]

MrMetalover666 /// dude ! Gotta love ya 🤣that was fucking great!!!

[@bobbyduckett5465]

I remember back when I knew nothing of the Bible.... I was Christian, then.

[@marts3229]

Bobby Duckett Cheers🍻 me too.

[@LastSonOfThanagar]

Bobby Duckett Thanks the gods

[@xxXthekevXxx]

Bobby Duckett same here

[@pollypockets508]

Bobby Duckett Hey, I read the Bible when I was a Christian... oh...

[@donnellebarfield3964]

as a black man in wonder how so many blacks can be Christian this is literally the book responsible for slavery.

[@revelations420]

I get really angry at black Christian KZbin videos defending slavery. As a white guy, is it racist to call them " Uncle Toms." ??

[@donnellebarfield3964]

Not really

[@Xarai]

+DOnnelle Barfield native americans were treated worse than africans especially as slaves

[@GReid-ol5gk]

+DOnnelle Barfield It's not responsible for slavery, but it was/is used to justify/rationalize it.

[@GReid-ol5gk]

+Xarai That's debatable.

[@noonesnameishere8924]

Most Christians never actually read the Bible to begin with. They either skim through it or take the pastor's word for it. It's a shame because passages like this and other horrible things are present within it.

[@politicsequalsgarbag]

Arrogant ignorance is by the the most childish form of all showcased ignorance.

[@landonsmith6235]

NoOnes NameisHere and those who do have cherrypick verses that already fit their own morality

[@scubaguy1989]

NoOnes NameisHere And most if not all atheists read the Bible even less, but nonetheless think they’re qualified to criticise it

[@thickerconstrictor9037]

Scuba Guy why should we believe anything in the bible when it isn't proven to even be the word of God. We may as well believe the Quran or any other religious texts. Not to mention that there are obnoxious amounts of contradictions and errors. You are a sheep who is too stupid to open his eyes and realize that the god of the Bible is immoral and pathetic and as we grow more and more gets disproven

[@scubaguy1989]

frank dizzle Nah mate there’s not one contradiction ... you just interpret it to suit your worldview Believe what you want, reject the Bible if you want, but don’t kid yourself that your atheist worldview isn’t without cavernous cracks.

[@VANEPS7]

I hate the indentured servitude argument. Owning people as property in any context is wrong. End of argument.

[@scubaguy1989]

JOHN MENUIS The point is ... it wasn't ownership in the sense you are using the word. Look at the nature of the arrangement. Beat your indentured servant and he dies ... you then get the death penalty. Why would you get the death penalty if you owned the servent???. No matter how big the servents debt you gotta release him from his obligation to work for you within 7 years max. That doesn't sound like property in the sense you are using the word. Even if he owed you 20 million he gets off after 7 years. In the meantime you gotta feed and house him.

[@scubaguy1989]

Nicolas Broszky no you are wrong, if they recover after a day or two no lost time compensation was payable as the servants time is already bonded. If the servant died the master gets the death penalty. If the injury was serious the master had to pay compensation and in some cases had to release the servant from the bond. Go back and read the whole chapter and break it down bit by bit. It’s not even arguable. You are just plain wrong, you’ve plucked a verse right away from everything before and after it that gives the full picture.

[@scubaguy1989]

Nicolas Broszky Nah mate I just don’t agree What is property in our time - it’s something you own and control completely. That is not what was happening with indentured servitude. How can it be property when the term of bondedness could never exceed 6 or 7 years no matter how many millions the debt was. We have bankruptcy for debt in the modern world. In the ancient world we’re talking about they couldn’t get out of a debt that easily .... they at least had to spend some time working it off. You are just seizing on a word and not interrogating what the text is actually saying. Look at 1 Timothy 1 - it condemns slave traders. Hebrew law was that you’d get the death penalty for kidnaping someone into slavery. You haven’t gone far enough to understand what was happening in those ancient times. In the ancient world bonded servants were everywhere - in the Roman Empire (I know that was later) it’s estimated almost half the population ... there were slaves too but that’s a different beast

[@scubaguy1989]

Nicolas Broszky Quote the scripture by chapter and verse and I’ll deal with it. The rest of what you say is just typical atheistic rhetoric. Use insults because you think it makes your arguments somehow more worthy. I ain’t gonna play that game. You don’t believe there is a God anyway, but you sure seem keen to attack his morality. Something amiss there really, but be that as it may, I prefer Gods morality to yours

[@scubaguy1989]

Nicolas Broszky Bravo atheist, insults insults ad hominem ... more insults .... I didn’t insult you once even though your reasoning is clearly disfunctional and you can’t support your interpretation of property against the bible use of that word in the English translation. Your reasoning is knee jerk and half baked .... typical atheist response .... your attitude is “there is no God, and I hate him”. Contradiction! I don’t get wired trying to criticise the tooth fairy or darth vader .... but you do with God .... says a lot, even tho you’ll try and give some other reason for it.

[@MadNotAngry]

Regardless of the time of year - if you're Christian - it's always _cherry picking season!_

[@christianblevins1870]

Yup

[@davidroberts1689]

Studying the Bible with an open mind is a sure cure for belief in any god.

[@3dge--runner]

damn right

[@tlibito]

Mountaindew what a well thought out and articulate argument....oh,wait...the opposite of all that actually

[@mattb6646]

David Roberts or better yet with a logical mind.

[@TheMilitantMazdakite]

Nope, just belief in the biblical god.

[@mr2atara]

ooooops. Genesis 16:8And he said “Hagar, Sarai’s slave girl, where have you come from and where are you going?” She answered, “I’m running away from Sarai, my mistress.” The angel of the Lord said to her, “Go back to your mistress and submit to ill treatment at her hands.” "but you're not looking at the 1 verse in the right context!" sorry, it sounds so much better when you find out she ran from her mistress because after Sarai couldn't get pregnant so got her husband to get Hagar knocked up as a surrogate, then treated her like shit when she did.

[@grimsoncrow]

I gotta say, for a believer, this guy is pretty perceptive.Many christians don't spot that one at all, or immediately rationalize it. Well done.

[@AtamMardes]

The bible is claim and not the evidence for the god hypothesis. If a book is evidence for something then Harry Potter is real. One becomes an atheist after reading the bible and actually think about it. These two versus are from the bible: Luke 6:31 Treat others the same way you want them to treat you. Exodus 21.2-11 When you buy a male Hebrew slave, he shall serve for six years, but in the seventh he shall go out a free person, without debt. Buying a slave means owing a human. To free a slave means the slave was captive. Other versus in the bible regulates the beating of the slaves and suggests to pass the slaves to the children as if they are farm equipment. So, "Luke 6:31" says treat others the way you want to be treated and "Exodus 21.2-11" implies owning a slave is OK and business as usual. Nowhere in the bible it says slavery is immoral and should be abolished. Did god created man in his image equally or unequally? Did god forgot that all humans are equal or man wrote the bible on his own and claimed it to be the “words of the lord”? If we believe god created humans unequally then we owe an apology to all those slaves for praising such god.

[@wadelane4721]

ok those are laws , do you understand what that mean,.. they are set there just in case because man was unrighteous just like today

[@AtamMardes]

Wade Lane The bible says treat others the way you want them to treat you. The bible also tell you to buy slaves, beat slaves, sell daughters, kill unruly children, and slaughter entire nearby nations. This hypocrisy reveals that the barbaric man made up the bible. If you believe those versus are the words of the God then you should be ashamed of yourself for praising such God and not using your brain to think on your own to realize man made up God, heaven, hell, angles, Satan, resurrection, walking on water and turning water into wine. Religion has got you by the balls.

[@wadelane4721]

atam mardes . it does not tell you buy slaves, or to beat slaves , tribes war against other tribes ... research history and stop looking at the book with a bias mindset . the book recorded these things . every thing you list can be match to actual history . well I am not dealing with religion as in the European standard of religion and doctrine but in a spiritual way . I am going to need to prove man made up "god"

[@AtamMardes]

Wade Lane You cannot make up a set of rules and claim the be the final words of the lord but keep changing it until you get it right. The improvement of OT to NT is the proof the man made up the words of the invisible lord. Do you think delusional man is going to make another testament and call it the Modern Testament? The evidence that man made up God is right in front of you but you are too stupid to see it. You are blinded by your blind faith, dogma and gullibility. You are also a coward, a hypocrite and a delusional liar for saying that the bible does not instruct to have slaves, beat the slaves, sell daughters, kill unruly children, and slaughter nearby nations. READ THESE BIBLE VERSUS AND START TO THINK ON YOUR OWN INSTEAD OF JUSTIFYING THEM DUE TO YOUR DOGMA AND PREDISPOSITION. Luke 12:47 The servant who knows the master's will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows. Leviticus 25:44 Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. Leviticus 25:44-46 However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. Exodus 21:7 If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as male servants do. 1 Timothy 2:12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. Deuteronomy 21:18-21 If any man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey his father or his mother, and when they chastise him, he will not even listen to them, then his father and mother shall seize him, and bring him out to the elders of his city at the gateway of his home town. And they shall say to the elders of his city, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey us, he is a glutton and a drunkard." Then all the men of his city shall stone him to death; so you shall remove the evil from your midst, and all Israel shall hear of it and fear. 1 Samuel 15:3 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.

[@Tr00therate]

Seriously TheaterPup???? According to the Bible, God made man.... that is as primitive as it gets. Don't you think he would have mentioned "don't own people" to Adam and Eve? I get so tired of apologists rewriting the Bible to suit modern society, just man up and admit that secularism is superior in every possible way.

[@truthseekers1620]

he gave them one rule not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. law came about to show us what sin was and to condemn us that we broke it. if you broke even one law you broke them all. the law can not save anyone only show us what sin is and condemn us if we break it. the sacrifice was a shadow of a substitute to take the place of the one who sinned. the soul that sinned shall surely die Jesus took our place and was our substitute. were he not our substitute we would be separated from God forever. pride is the root of all evil (don't tell me what to do, there is no God, we don't need God, I can take care of myself, I'm always right if you don't believe like I do you will go to hell, my way is the right way all others are wrong) yeah we doing a fine job ruling ourselves homelessness unemployment murder abortion false religion oppression etc. if there was no God what will stopping us from destroying the earth and everyone on it? everything is getting worse not better. you can see what a lack of a belief in God did and it is only gonna get worse.

[@BaronVonQuiply]

walter mcthenney Ah, so running an amber light is equivalent to war crimes in your mind, especially when it's a setup right from the beginning and the victim has no way to tell right from wrong.

[@truthseekers1620]

Baron von Quiply God told them what not to do he told them what would happen satan lied to eve she disobeyed. adam knew but disobeyed anyway death was a consequence of his actions. we don't die because he sinned but your sin don't just hurt you but it also affects others.

[@BaronVonQuiply]

walter mcthenney I've read the book, there's no mention of that character lying, however your deity does so a number of times. He then takes revenge on one of the animals for pointing out his lies. According to the story he also set the trap then hid and waited for it to be sprung, knowing full well what would happen and that his ignorant humans had no way of knowing what was right and what was wrong. Then, after successfully having them fall into his trap, he kicks them out of the garden and curses them and all of their descendents (apparently for all of eternity) based on his mistakes. And of course, according to the story itself, they don't die like yahweh said they were going to...that day.

[@SeRoAnthem]

walter mcthenney psssst God knows everything Which means when he was telling Adam and Eve he knew they would disobey him. He could have made that not happen meaning the Fall of Man is God's plan and he wanted it to happen

[@johnjohnny8271]

Matthew 7 7 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you

[@kevinhayes8188]

god said do as I say, or go to hell that,s free will.

[@mattb6646]

Kevin Hayes it's only free will if you choose to go to hell.. you know if you believe in it.

[@dillavou444]

Exodus 21:16 “Whoever steals a man and sells him, and anyone found in possession of him, shall be put to death."

[@astgraphicnovel]

***** Tell him...

[@kezo_fps]

Can't tell if you're for or against it, but the verse is talking about if you steal a PERSON , idk about you but it seems like he's saying you gotta buy them for it to be right

[@Tripserpentine]

Yes you shouldn't steal indeed, but if it's your own slave it's all good, Christianity lovely myth XD

[@sandsand5483]

dillavou444 yeah, this is only related to stealing Jewish slaves if you use a bit of deduction. Can't steal a man but you can take slaves from the neighbouring countries as well as the people who have come to your country on a temporary basis... So how do you steal a man if you're allowed to take them?

[@Tripserpentine]

If you consider some peopel to be less then a man, for say people of other races and religions/atheist/unbelievers. It was the argument of many a European Slaver during the slavetrade, as well the argument for Catholics to follow Nazi doctrine versus Jewish people.

[@Seymour13]

"A man is as evil as the god he worships". -NetWriter

[@pdoylemi]

It doesn't matter what word you use. Some translations call them "bond servants", but they were explicitly called property which could even be passed to one's heirs. It specifically says they can be beaten as long as they don't die in a day or two, or lose an eye. Whatever word you choose - the condition is equivalent to slavery. The servitude into which a Jewish male could sell himself was referred to by a different word, and the standards for treating them were different.

[@naughteedesign]

the 7 year thing, was used as an apology for slavery to me a while back, the way these guys contort their brains is amazing, they should list it as an olymic games event

[@godexists2177]

Exodus 21:16 And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.

[@SaveTheFuture]

@XxPetexXx: the date couldn't be just off; we've narrowed it down closely to 13.8 billion years, and if it's off by a hundred million or more, it is wrong because it relies on rigid observations like the distance of the CMB.

[@alstoer1]

@stonebrownalien: "The law was against owning people against their will, the "slaves"" Incorrect. The Exodus prohibition was for stealing a man, and selling him (kidnapping), not against owning slaves. It did not prohibit the purchasing of nearby 'Heathens' and forcing them into slavery for life (Levi 25:44-46).

[@naughteedesign]

"There is nothing you could say that would be convincing..." you see how that closes your mind and options, no other scholar, no other perspective will be convincing to you? you should always be open to another point of view (as long as they can back it up with evidence that is).

[@johnjohnny8271]

“Let no man in the world live in delusion. Without a teacher none can cross over to the other shore.”

[@bekindist]

How do you explain Exodus then? When God explicitly tells you that it's ok to have slaves and to beat them and rape etc? There's no mention of Satan, it's God saying these things.

[@6chhelipilot]

Genesis chapter 17, verse 12: "And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed. He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised." The words of your God.

[@dracdrum]

Because desperation breeds necessity. They have little chance in this life and the promise of salvation and grandeur beyond the life they already screwed up, is very appealing. Same reason old people will start living the life according to "the book" when their end is apparent. Christianity plays on the fear of death and promises eternal life, and it doesn't even have to deliver on those promises, because no one knows what happens to perception after your brain stops functioning.

[@kidbuu187]

@VitalSigns1 Also - Ephesians 6:5 - Slaves need to obey their masters just as they would obey Christ. - Colossians 3:22-24 - Slaves need to obey their masters. - 1 Peter 2:18 - Slaves need to obey their masters, even if their masters are harsh .

[@scievryday]

@landsdown44 Wow, my comment was not some "try". You asked for the verse in the bible that 1voice was referring to, I happen to know it so I posted. And yes, your right scholars agree that the last versus of Mark were added at a later date. I'm not disputing that, I just wanted to provide you with the reference you asked for.

[@landsdown44]

Just to clarify, most scholars do not limit eschatology to something that is already "realized". Yes the kingdom of God is within us. However, it's fulfillment is yet to come. I have read many Christian scholars, most all agree on this. One outstanding volume, "Surprised by Hope" written by British author, N.T. Wright, is an excellent example.

[@ImSoOvertImCovert]

Exodus 21:16 “Whoever steals a man and sells him, and anyone found in possession of him, shall be put to death." No specificity of race or creed is addressed. Servant =Slave. You have not justified anything, and you trying to reword slave to servant is meaningless at best.

[@eyeh8u1]

I love it when christians try to spin scripture to mean what they want rather than what it actually says. A fundamentalist friend engaged this delusion about slavery when we talked about it. "They were debt slaves" "They were treated as equals" "It wasn't racial slavery like we had in the south." and perhaps the most laughable "God didn't like slavery but it was something that mankind insisted on so God set rules for their treatment." I practically shit an eggroll when she said that last one.

[@TheGroucho66]

Apparently it IS up for debate between Christians as some believe all of it is poetry, some think it is just a story, some think it is partly poetry and partly real and some think it is entirely literal. You personally think the division between poetry and truth is clear because it is your interpretation which you have assumed is THE interpretation. As Christopher Hitchens said: "Anyone who says the resurrection is a historical fact is advertising a willingness to believe in absolutely anything”

[@matthewwukitch3735]

an example in antiquity where slavery was just as bad as the southern America is the mining of lead in the Roman Empire. The life span of those slaves was a few years and the Romans knew mining lead was deadly. This has been documented by numerous dig sites.

[@Bolverkur]

He was a part of the order of the dragon, an order who defend the cross and fought the the enemies of Christianity, and that is exactly what he did (brutally i should add).

[@landsdown44]

@DemimondXXIII Your claim about the non-necessity of "Faith" is strictly your unfounded opinion. Talk about painting something with a wide brush. And, to be completely honest there are NO New Testament texts supporting slavery. There are, however, strong statements opposing all forms of oppression. As for Matthew's reference, he happens to be intentionally or unintentionally distorting the meaning.

[@cyborgjonny]

I first heard this verse watching “It’s always sunny in Philadelphia” I had to confirm it and it was good.

[@BeardedHeavy]

same here. Sunny is always speaking the truth.

[@landsdown44]

Honesty is always a good trait, especially for someone who knows how to spell evrything correct. BTW, I didn't claim to be fluent in Greek, and for the record to say "hellenistic" is redundant (please check my spelling on that word. I didn't look it up.). Actually it is known as "Koine" Greek. I studied it a year and have researched the texts in question. Gee, contradicting you is so easy.

[@MrEmeraldfusion]

Luke 16:13-"No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon."In the beginning God created them male, and female.." "And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."-Jhn 5:29

[@landsdown44]

@The1VoiceOfReason Here's another fun fact. Genesis 1-3 is entirely Hebrew poetry. It didn't suddenly become poetry. It always was poetry. In fact the name "Adam" means "mankind". The author was writing a poem praising the God of creation, not attempting to say anything about "how" or "when" it was created or "who" the first parents were. As I said, Genesis fits well with evolution. It is the fundamentalists who trt to make Adam and Eve literal people, distorting the text to do so.

[@landsdown44]

This poetry issue evolved between us regarding the Adam/Eve question. I don't believe the writer was trying to write historical fact, but using poetry to proclaim a truth, that humankind (represented by Adam/Eve) rejected God's purpose and humankind thus needed to have that broken connection healed.

[@j919or]

Beating slaves to death was prohibited. Beating slaves was not ordered by the law but allowed. The presumption is that a master would not beat his slaves to a point where they were unproductive. A slave that is beaten and didn't die right away would be a sign that the death didn't occur as a direct result of the beating, but as complications or infections associated with the beating that the owner couldn't have forsaw.

[@ImSoOvertImCovert]

“When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged. But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money." Exodus 21;20-21

[@9432515]

Old post but I’ll try anyways. Back up two little verses. Verses 18&19 are for the NON servant assaulted by a Hebrew. Verses 20&21 is assault on the SERVANT. It’s a comparison. The ‘no punishment’ refers to what the apostate Hebrew assaulting a servant doesn’t pay..because he’s already paying all medical, all room and board, and any lost wages are his. He’s his investment, his money.

[@whynot1871]

The claim that slavery is evil, morally reprehensible, or despicable at all times and in every situation is demonstrably false. There is at least one example from history in which it was redemptive and life-saving.

[@TheBeardedn00b]

It doesn't take faith to reject a claim without evidence infact it is quite the opposite, disbelief is the default position for supernatural claims. Thinking outside the box is about considering new ideas not accepting one single idea as fact without evidence.

[@j919or]

Apparently you are presuming that the mainland part was just suburbs. You also assume the island fortress was the main city at that time. Prove it. The words of the prophecy are precise. They include two parts 1. Walled city 2. Land weapons 3. Nebs had no navy. 4. Later Alex uses the ruins from that mainland city to build the causeway. Ezekial had a land attack on a land fortress in mind. He was a contemporary and all other historians only have remote knowledge in comparison.

[@landsdown44]

@infernalone666 While slavery was minimal in Israel, probably less than anywhere else, it did exist. It was forbidden to enslave other Hebrews. It was required to be hospitable to strangers/foreigners. However, a Hebrew could buy a foreign slave from a foreigner. The limits on slavery that Torah imposed were probably greater than anywhere. That hardly makes it perfect. However, it was a start, directing Christians later to be the leaders who ended slavery in U.S. and U.K.

[@davids11131113]

The thing is, its difficult discussing things with people who actually believe Batman IS REAL! You can say he's rather selfish and does fight crime, but really for his own personal benefit....then when the people who actually believe Batman is real shoot back at you 'You better watch your tongue! After Batman is done with the Riddler, he's comin to punish YOU next!' See, its a ridiculous exercise reasoning with lunatics.

[@PanikOne10]

Ephesians 6:5 "Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear" Colossian 3:22 "Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything and do it" Timothy 6:1 "All who are under the yoke of slavery should consider their masters worthy of full respect" 1 Peter 2:18 "Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh." and so many other passages.. You haven't read your bible have you?

[@landsdown44]

@ChaoticRupture Your premise fails: 1. Torah was the most compassionate code of antiquity, requiring welfare for poor, hospitality for strangers, redistribution of wealth to prevent oppressing the poor. 2. Torah goes in the right direction, almost all slavery was eliminated but doesn't go far enough and God did not write it. The early church was virtually the only place where slaves and free were seen as equals. Paul wrote them, in Christ there is niether slave nor free.

[@johnjohnny8271]

A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.

[@TheGroucho66]

Secondly, I am nearing the end of a three year Poetry course and so I think my understanding of what poetry is perfectly clear. When I said 'poetry' in my comment, I meant 'imagery depicted via descriptions for purely artistic purposes' as opposed to 'word for word depiction of actual events'. Poetry can just be meaningless but beautiful, it can be beautiful and have messages about life in it or - if you belief in the existence of a deity that does miracles - be descriptions of actual events.

[@ToiletBomb]

@landsdown44 I never said because a monarch is unjust that makes god unjust. You said, "When a judge decides the punishment for a crime, that is not "oppression"." I provided an example of when a judge decided something it was not just. We call this analogy. I would make an argument for God being unjust but this was not my argument for such. You are claiming my quote from Matheww 14:4 from KJV does not exist. You are right I miskeyed, It is 15:4. Show me Matthew 15:4.

[@DeeScienceGuy]

Do these things make it any better? Also, as Exodus 21:7 says, daughters sold into slavery don't go free at the end of six years as the men do. Slavery is immoral. You are just rationalizing it. It doesn't matter how you come to own another person, the fact that you own another person is wrong.

[@naughteedesign]

hi richardaberdeen, when you say "he might not take too kindly" are you implying your god might hurt me? how would "he" do that? (and why). as mentioned i have not lied about anything (happy to be corrected, you'd have to point out exactly where that may of occurred), if your god exists he may frown upon your constant negative and abusive behaviour towards people simply asking questions to learn more about your relationship with him... surely you'd want to share such a relationship with all.

[@johnjohnny8271]

1 John 4:20 NIV If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen.

[@mas03]

just because there is things that we dont agree with, that doesnt conclude that god does not exist, that just means we dont agree with a certain passage.

[@naughteedesign]

hi landsdown44, having just re-read your comment i can see you do indeed confirm you have studied the redundant language in question. so do you consider the study of a redundant language (for a whole year), suitable to make the claim that "There just aren't more ways to interpret them"? you'd be aware there are professional scholars who have studied these text most of their lives (full time)... and even they argue amongst themselves regarding context etc.

[@JCviggen1]

Disregarding the alternative interpretation of owning (you could just as easily call it a contradiction like so much biblical stuff), that still leaves the part that if you hit a "slave" over the head and he dies quickly you need to be punished, but if he hangs on a bit longer and then dies then you're all right. Try and justify that with 21st century morality.

[@massey904]

@Tiger Chu Do you not understand what I was saying?

[@DeeScienceGuy]

Why do you continuously try to assault someone's intelligence? That is irrelevant to any sort of debate. It's a distraction from the point to try to make your own argument look stronger. I've always found that speaking condescending to someone and/or calling out on something that they literally can't change, even if it's true, only adds another barrier between you and them. It diminishes the entire argument. You're obviously not stupid, but you don't need to treat others like they are

[@fantasyreflection]

And to think there are religious groups in the US who want to see the return of slavery.

[@kidbuu187]

@VitalSigns1 There isn't any distortion. I'm just taking the verses from the "Good Book" and giving them to you as evidence. Why are you getting so emotional? I'm having a debate with you on the subject.

[@josh19dow88]

The fact that times were different is exactly the point of bringing up slavery. Why can we move on from something that made the slavery a necessary evil and stoning a proper judicial punishment?

[@ColourfulBandai]

@3drumking Morality is broken down into Consequentialism, Deontology, and Virtue ethics. Religion would have your morals fit with the rules and rituals that a god would lay out. As simply as I can put it: Christians: Doing what is right because you are told to Atheists/agnostics/etc.: Doing what is right regardless of what you are told

[@johnjohnny8271]

“There is but One God, His name is Truth, He is the Creator, He fears none, he is without hate, He never dies, He is beyond the cycle of births and death, He is self illuminated, He is realized by the kindness of the True teacher. He was True in the beginning, He was True when the ages commenced and has ever been True, He is also True now

[@landsdown44]

Further, the gospel writers were not as interested in historical accuracy as they were with their purpose which was Kerygma, proclamation. That certainly is not to say they were making anything up. The parallels between them are most noticable for how similar they are.

[@kidbuu187]

@azzy314159 I don't believe in a God, I'm Atheist. I know what Agnosticism & Atheism is, but that's not the point. I was just explaining what it means to be Atheist.

[@landsdown44]

I didn't say morality is found only in church, but it is found there. And the Netherlands is not anti-religion. The U.S. is a secular State too.

[@TheBeardedn00b]

critical thinking is nothing to do with 'boxed thinking' questioning ideas and assessing their merits is precisely the opposite, it encourages scrutiny and generation of more new ideas instead of accepting a single one. Its no co-incidence that Atheism has grown in pervasiveness over the last hundred years, it is a direct result of less religious boxed thinking.

[@johnjohnny8271]

“I am neither male nor female, nor am I sexless. I am the Peaceful One, whose form is self-effulgent, powerful radiance.”

[@MrSchnitzel19]

@ItsKindaFunky It's true that it was a form of paying off debts, but it was VERY similar to our modern understanding of slavery. They were forced to do everything they were told. You were allowed to beat them, even to death (unless they died within two days). If anything, it was even more brutal the forms of slavery we think of.

[@naughteedesign]

i never claimed to know how to spell, it was you who put yourself up as the language expert. i'm glad you hold honesty as a good trait, regarding that, you claimed to have "studied the New Testament texts in question, in their origional language."... you do realise they were written in hellenistic greek (yes also known as koine, alexandrian dialect or just common attic which as i had already pointed out is redundant). so did you study the original texts or not? regards nd.

[@landsdown44]

@MarcusEFN The only people Jesus ever threatened with judgment were the equivalent of clergy, religious leaders because they were about power and not about assisting the poor and the oppressed. I try to be a follower of Jesus and have no reason to threaten anyone with judgment. That's not my prerogative.

[@TheBeardedn00b]

So long as you don't force your religion down peoples throats or use resources to spread the religious message instead of helping the poor I am glad for your work.

[@landsdown44]

I have enjoyed our dialogue. It has been useful and respectful. Go figure. Take care.

[@MikeTall88]

It was a necessary institution? Please elaborate that? Slavery is never, ever necessary.

[@puckerings]

This is largely true, and it illustrates why atheist sucks as a descriptive term. Telling people one thing that you are not tells them very little about what you are. So you're better off using a term like humanist (or what have you), which at least describes something about what you do believe.

[@RAMSEY1987]

you mean like Mitt Romney with Bain Capital In his 2009 book The Buyout of America: How Private Equity Is Destroying Jobs and Killing the American Economy, Josh Kosman described Bain Capital as "notorious for its failure to plow profits back into its businesses,"

[@nerhu59]

A nonexistent thing needs no disproving.

[@johnjohnny8271]

what hurts my pain is what i did i open the doors of my to see far what i should not did now i am dealing with it i cant stop it

[@TheLove4Christ]

Actually I prefer the ancient Greek texts when reading the NT and the earliest Hebrew manuscripts when studying the OT.

[@halonone]

Then you've started where a lot of us began. I was a Christian until I started actually reading my Bible. I don't know that I immediately decided there was no god at all after that, but somewhere along that path I have seen no reason to believe in god either. For starters, how do you even define what "god" is?

[@landsdown44]

What in the Bible is poetry and what is not, is not up for debate. Just as poetry in English is clearly distinguishable, so it is in Hebrew and Greek. BTW, I didn't claim Jesus' words proved anything about God. I merely made that statement to show the consistency of his teaching. Yes, the Bible does affect my morality as well it should.

[@Kooper05]

How'd you climb over the first 10 verses of Exodus to get to 16? It's the equivalent of running into a burning building, finding a room on the 5th floor that's not on fire and calling the fire department to tell them everything is fine. Meanwhile, I want to see you dance on Leviticus's message about [25:39] "you can't enslave Israelites" but 5 verses later saying [25:44] "you can enslave anyone who's not an Israelite." These debates really are just citing one bible verse to refute another.

[@landsdown44]

@acr08807 Also, there was no law punishing children for sins of their fathers or the king. The Torah acknowledges that is indeed what tends to happen. It's not different today. Children from disfunctional homes tend to become disfunctional. Furthermore, Torah, while respected was never authoritative for the church, not even in its very beginnng. But you would actually have to read the New Testament to discover that fact.

[@JCviggen1]

You're picking and choosing, but this does not address the fact that it IS written that there is somehow a moral difference as far as the bible is concerned between a slave dying of his master's assault within 2 days or dying later. Today we most certainly don't make that distinction, certainly not in our justice departments.

[@BorikeTheBlackDragon]

If you want to believe the Bible is all true, you need to accept the Good parts, and the Bad. I was never talking about Jesus, I was talking about the Ten Commandments and their Moral integrity. Changing the subject to something more comfortable to you tells me and everyone reading it that you can't defend the commandments. If you can, focus on them, don't try to move the conversation away. Tell me why my interpretation of the Ten Commandments is wrong and yours is right.

[@ImSoOvertImCovert]

Leviticus 25:44-46 says nothing of jubilee "You may bequeath them to your sons after you to inherit as a possession forever. You may make slaves of them, but over your brothers the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over another ruthlessly."

[@BjoernarEricSven]

The argument that "God" could't possibly go any further than making slavery "less bad" is ridiculous. "God" had commanded his worshippers to do far more drastic things than merely refraining from owning fellow men. And far more damning than any New Testament passages commanding Christian slaves to remain passive and obey their (supposedly non-Christian) masters is Ephesians 6:9 which adresses the subject of Christian slave owners.

[@ChessArmyCommander]

+Björnar Dohm The God of the Hebrew scriptures is a God. But not the most high God. And Satan is the God of this World, not Jesus. The Apostle Paul was not led to reform or overthrow Satan's kingdom and its understandable. Its not time for that anyway. That is something that will happen much later.

[@BjoernarEricSven]

ChessArmyCommander First of all, that's a very unconventional Interpretation. Secondly, what has all of that got to do with slavery?

[@ChessArmyCommander]

+Björnar Dohm Yes it is. But its right. The God of the ancient Hebrews was Yahweh who is one of many celestial Gods. Many of whom are not very good. Most are however. They all have bodies. God doesn't. The most high God is an invisible spirit. Like us, even the celestial beings have never seen God! As for slavery, in scripture or any other, its the lower Gods, or "sons of God" who are directly responsible for good and evil. I don't know what the deal is with the most high great spirit God, as to why the celestial beings are both good and evil.

[@BjoernarEricSven]

ChessArmyCommander Well, that's as weird as any other religious claim.

[@ChessArmyCommander]

+Björnar Dohm Its biblical to. Not just somebody's idea.

[@crystalsaete]

You should call into the show and put your ideas to the test with Matt.

[@the_regular_dinosaurus_rex]

to make it clearer: there is just "evolution" evolution on small scales turns into evolution in large scales over a longer period of time. micro-eoulution = evolution over small amount of time macro-evolution = evolution over larger amount of time it is basically the same thing, just over a small vs. large amount of time... small changes become big changes after a longer period of time...

[@landsdown44]

This is why Lukan material is accepted as legit. The textual evidence is excellent, considering that there are more than 5,000 copies and partial copies and the level of agreement is outstanding. As for the Beatitudes, Luke was much more concerned about the abuses of the rich oppressing the poor, probably due to issue in his community. Or it could be Luke's source vaired some. Remember, the Gospel writers each had different communities to whom they were writinng

[@landsdown44]

You most certainly have not been arrogant. I know Christians who come across that way too. BTW, I do have some atheist friends and we respect one another and get along well. Also, I do read atheist texts. I am trying to get a handle on Nietzsche and I have enjoyed reading Bertrand Russell. I recommend a book to you, Velvet Elvis by Rob Bell.

[@ghostcoops2929]

Last time I went out in the dark and called out in a calm audible voice, I found myself blacking out and waking up with my trousers round my ankles and a sore bum. Was that God?

[@Rowan_A_Boat]

I rest my case: everyone intelligent enough to know the difference.

[@naughteedesign]

hello richardaberdeen, i prefer philosopher Bertrand Russell's illustration of the philosophic burden of proof, which he suggest lies upon a person making scientifically unfalsifiable claims rather than shifting the burden of proof to others, specifically in the case of religion. Russell wrote that if he claims that a teapot orbits the Sun somewhere in space between the Earth and Mars, it is nonsensical for him to expect others to believe him on the grounds that they cannot prove him wrong.

[@ghostcoops2929]

My wishes involve fast cars and Anna Kendrick. With a tub of Ben & Jerry's.

[@BorikeTheBlackDragon]

No, I'm not gonna accept a Man created lie as Truth. You changed the subject, end of discussion.

[@TheLove4Christ]

As someone who could have had ancestors owned by your ancestors, who you telling? Alot of poor folk would have never survived slavery if it were not for faith in God.

[@j919or]

In the NT also, there is no command to enslave people but slavery was a necessary institution and the NT didn't seek to overthrough the laws of the Roman empire but react in a godly was if u were a slave was the directive of the command.

[@mrcocoloco7200]

Hey where is his main channel? I found his in Tik Tok but not in KZbin?