Why Does Metal Gear Rising Keep Getting More Popular?

[@JacobGeller]

If you're disappointed I didn't cover a specific topic, there's a very good chance Harper and I discussed it in the Nebula-exclusive companion video. Get 50 more minutes of Metal Gear Rising talk, right here! nebula.app/videos/jacob-geller-revengeance-never-ends-a-conversation-with-a-metal-gear-scholar/

[@alephnole7009]

"JACKS BACK!!!!"

[@alephnole7009]

I need a live action stage performance/music of MGRR with wire-fu now.

[@seaman2338]

Jesus you scared me for a minute thinking I forgot Mother’s Day

[@alihorda]

@@seaman2338 well it already happened :)

[@jonnybgood4749]

I've never played a metal gear game, I've only seen them in memes. What could go wrong starting with revengeance :)

[@Joseju]

My favorite thing about Metal Gear Rising is how utterly sincere it feels. It's consistently ridiculous but also 0% self-conscious. It just wants to do its thing and this sincerety only makes its themes shine brighter. Armstrong might be the pinnacle of final bosses and he could only exist in the most direct of games. I love MGR

[@mateoreyes6921]

He is so weird and at the same time so cool I love him, is a shame that we can't join him in a secret ending

[@xablep8849]

Totally, that is exactly what I was recently thinking about. At some point in the second half of the game, un your samuray battle, the character of Sam even asks you: ¿Donde caemos gente?

[@franfernandez4264]

Donde caemos gente En el neoliberalismo yanki. Ahi hemos caido.

[@jolynejoestar2106]

@@xablep8849 but samuel is brazilian and brazilian people speak portuguese lol

[@andresvera3763]

No fucking way is joseju… anyways. Dónde caemos gente?

[@Max0r]

Metal Gear Rising is a fantastic counterpoint when people say that gamers “Don’t want politics in their games”. It’s both very clever and dumb with that basic premise at the same time.

[@gustajuy5983]

that’s a nice argument senator, could you back it up with a source?

[@angryteapod1765]

@@gustajuy5983 my sources are made the fuck up

[@Bugsiscool]

@@gustajuy5983 my source is that I made it the fuck up

[@danielbrophy8955]

The cool thing is that when most games put politics in games, in most cases it has a agenda that it force feeds the player to the point of frustration. MGR is does have political commentary on the war economy but it plays it up to a comical over the topness that's very endearing

[@nyxassassinsnyxassasins8208]

THE MEMES JACK

[@dashiellgillingham4579]

A big part of Revengance’s immortality is how, being so direct, the process of cutting it up into so many tiny pieces (as the internet does) hasn’t destroyed its messages and themes.

[@Poldovico]

It was, after all, designed for Blade Mode.

[@Boasill]

Like the bosses themselves, the game speaks to us even after being sliced and diced a million times. Pretty nifty

[@iantaakalla8180]

Metal Gear Solid 2 may be the intron to what its own themes, but Metal Gear Rising is the exon that links to Solid 2 that propagates them to the next generation.

[@MALICEM12]

@@iantaakalla8180 exactly

[@KnightOMurk]

Chopping it into hamburger?

[@-K_J-]

The most insane information I received here is that Early in the video it’s said the campaign is five hours. During the senator section it’s said the fight goes on for an hour. 20% of this game alone is therefore, fighting senator Armstrong. That tells me so much yet I’m not sure how to put it into words.

[@largecert]

that includes cutscenes, however

[@mr.wigglesworth7428]

@@largecert even including cutscenes it's just 40 minutes, idk wtf geller is talking about with the 1 hour thing

[@johnroach9026]

@@mr.wigglesworth7428 Might be considering repeats of the fight when players die, I expect most people didn't beat Armstrong on their first attempt

[@zeroa69]

@@johnroach9026 dude more like a several hours on very hard. in the third act you have to be so god damn quick n precise with the manual cut i cant just finish him off. i take to much damage from from failing the cuts. 2 hits is the margin for error. that being said ive acquired an elite 2 since the last time i played. damn..... computer says that was back in 2019. pretty sure i was using a wired afterglow controller and the thumbstick wasnt good enough.

[@cyborgchicken3502]

@@mr.wigglesworth7428 it took me about an hour to beat Armstrong, that was one tough boss fight

[@austingoodman2177]

The two things that still impress me about this game are 1.) how a Japanese studio managed to design an American senator that looks more like an American senator than real American senators, and 2.) how every single song in the soundtrack goes so fucking hard.

[@bfgfanatic1747]

That's just what happens when you hire the Toontown composer.

[@cheafmin1399]

I have all of the main boss songs memorized and can sing them from heart. I love this game.

[@tripplordofinconvenience9953]

E

[@wildfire9280]

@@bfgfanatic1747 Or the NES Pictionary composer. ...You heard me.

[@ZgermanGuy.]

What i like about the japanese is that because they can make art from their perspective they dont have to be bothered by western sensibilities

[@lemmonboy6459]

I’m going to go out in a limb and say because of how shockingly accurate it is, “memes” being both the funny images and also the very ideas and ways of life we live blurs the line between funny sword game and deep commentary on America.

[@daboos6353]

You’d think Metal Gear Solid 2 would be equally popular then considering how much of 21st century culture it predicted

[@garrettbates9124]

Most Metal Gear games comment on the world as it existed during it's development. But the world grew to match MGR's commentary. Right down to the crazy billionaire trying to become president for the 2020 election, only to lose to a guy with white hair. The only difference is that MGR started cool cyborgs while real politics star boring old men.

[@JJMomoida]

It is kinda nuts how, depending on who you ask, memes are straight up *just* funny images.

[@greengoat5654]

Metal gear solid rising revengeance is the game that introduced me to the concept of the memetics and how cultures grow, shits fucking whack

[@greengoat5654]

@@garrettbates9124 someone's been spending a little too much time on Reddit

[@Theperson139]

I love how it could literally be Powerade in there spines, the game says that there electrolytes in the spines that heal you

[@hamishwalker9637]

Spines - it's what plants crave

[@bryandiaz8042]

Bruh....

[@P0rk_Sinigang]

Cyborg juice!

[@ReverendCleve]

@@hamishwalker9637 gives a whole new meaning to “pushin’ daisies”

[@anthonytanner96]

Mmm...Spinalade.

[@transimpedance]

“Revengeance knows writers who use subtext and they’re all cowards” is one of my favorite jokes about this game

[@Jaydee-wd7wr]

It’s a Garth Marenghi’s reference.

[@joecassidy2887]

@@Jaydee-wd7wr Who's that? from the sound of their name I'd guess they've read more books than they've written.

[@peasaladdeluxe6392]

@@joecassidy2887 Its a show, Garth Marenghi's Darkplace, a horror parody series about a bad writer

[@3n3my33]

@@peasaladdeluxe6392 Joe's joke passed right over your head lol

[@peasaladdeluxe6392]

@@3n3my33 I thought it might be a joke, but i also generally still try to answer questions in the comments, if it isn't immediately obvious to me that its a joke, just to be nice. Better answer a question with the chance of it being a joke question than leave a genuine question unanswered

[@hawkshot867]

Revengeance being a musical is a generation defining epiphany I can endorse.

[@m0rtez713]

It all makes sence now...

[@kakroom3407]

I think Platinum would agree We should nominate it for a tony

[@nahometesfay1112]

We need to get it on Broadway

[@mcslender2965]

@@nahometesfay1112 Metal Gear Rising the musical has a ring to it ngl

[@lukalaly]

@@mcslender2965 it really does, but if we got it on broadway then they'd water it down so much that it wouldn't be recognizable. we gotta get it in an independent theater first, then get it on broadway after mass market demand, so we can at least keep most of the absolute insanity that mgr deserves.

[@ethan_jackline]

One of my favorite things I ever saw brought up about this game from another commenter was how this game can actually be seen on a meta level through jetstream Sam. The whole point is that when you start playing, you care. You care about the story, you care about the characters, you care about the things adjacent to the fighting, like raiden, you want to make it so this story ends satisfyingly. But then you replay the game, with jetstream Sam's sword in hand, a direct upgrade from raiden's and without the pesky morals he had with the old one. With that sword you start to care less, you've played before, you know the story, and you skip the cutscenes because what you really want, is a good fight. In the end you just replay to fight and kill, because it's the only thing thats still unpredictable and fun. Making you as the player transition from raiden's care and focus on story, to Sam's apathy and goal of just wanting a good fight.

[@danieln6613]

So the MGR sequel with Sam as the MC we all wanted were the ng+ we beat along the way

[@robertcormier6586]

holy shit thank you for this knowledge

[@redfruit1993z]

So meta.

[@BobbinRobbin777]

@@danieln6613 couldn't have said it better.

[@Ashpect]

@Unknown550 It's not a theory it's a look at a coincidence between how the player views that game and how Raiden and Sam differ.

[@BrezelCeviche]

I did my thesis partly about this game. My teacher said that the game was not very special, yet, here we are more than five years later.

[@custardgannet4836]

Standing here I realise I haven't played Rising in years,time for another go.

[@nicholasmitchell6025]

is it published?

[@michimatsch5862]

What sort of thing did you study that you could do that, lol. Mine was about how a law a populist right-party wanted to put into place was actually illegal and illegitimate.

[@maxenswlfr1877]

​@@michimatsch5862 there's a whole goddamn book that analyses thus game

[@michimatsch5862]

@@maxenswlfr1877 didn't answer my question.

[@lucasqualls5086]

I think one of the coolest metaphors the game builds is that when Armstrong is still bullshitting and not telling you what he actually believes, he's in the machine. But once that machine, that big ominous thing turns out to be a comparatively easy to defeat farce, his lies break away like the mechanical shell protecting him, and you begin to fight him, as a person. You begin a battle with ideology, not fake twisted pragmatism. And I think that's a beautiful metaphor. The world is fucked up, not because there's some big scary unstoppable system that seems propped up by those who believe it can actually be used for good, but because there are people who straight up want what's worst for others, if they think it'll put them on top, or just because they're crazy.

[@blankspace2185]

No Armstrong isn't crazy, he's batshit insane

[@itsdantaylor]

As a side note: While I don't think Raiden himself is the most compelling or interesting character in the game or the MG series, I will say that his 'arc' in this story is kind of.....different from other game protaganists. He wants to be a 'warrior' of justice, to fight for honor and not killing for killings sake. However he is forced to abandon those ideals and embrace the side of him that enjoys pain, killing, and the sadistic side of himself. Yet he decides to accept that side of himself and move forward with trying to do what he feels is right despite that. We don't usually get a protaganist who 'embraces his dark side' and yet stiill remains the hero of the story.

[@jimvenanzio6561]

in a sort of way, he embraces and integrates his inner darkness. It makes him more whole, and even more himself than he otherwise could be. Every day, we get told never to go near the dark side, to only stay in the light. it seems batchit insane to do what Raiden did, but at the same time it's supreme masochsim to deny what he so readily can accept by the time his arc is done about himself. He does not deny himself in any regard. Only in self-acceptance does know balance well enough to continue his quest to be justice--in spite of being forced to well, not.

[@cityguard4847]

I think of it as more of an acceptance of what it is he feels. He’s a killer, through and through. He turns people into meat confetti. He just needed to accept the reality of what it is he does, and then went “Y’know what? Yeah I kill people. But I don’t care. I’m going to continue to fight for my ideals anyway.” Because he got to finally realise what those ideals are, than a vague “I need to do good” shtick.

[@Dr.Yakub22]

He doesn’t need to have a character arc in mgr especially with how short it is also he’s already an established character who’s really likeable

[@MrCrunch808]

This might even be a political statement on America. The only way to influence the system is to become part of the system of suffering and to be complicit in creating suffering. The only way Raiden can stop the cruelty of the system is to simply be more cruel than the system itself. As the final song says “violence breeds violence”.

[@Pyre]

It's not just "not usually", I struggle to think of any other examples that work like this. Raiden's "superpowered evil side" is literally just him admitting he really likes murder. His most impactful lines in the finale are about not being committed to justice and honor so much as just killing a guy he really, really doesn't like. He achieves his greatest effectiveness by, like the game itself, being remorselessly honest.

[@TalkingVidya]

The thing is, Armstrong CAN identify the problems with modern US policy, namely, the very real War Econommy, problem is, his "solution" will increase suffering, while only helping people who, like him, already have some sort of politcal or economical power And like, the end of the game kinda makes a point that, for all the things Raiden did, the War Econommy is still going strong. Yes, they saved the children, but who's to says somebody else will not do the same in a few years after this game? This game is about memes, Raiden memes of justice infected Sam, that's why they have that final fight, but Armstrong's memes also infected Raiden. He might not think that Armstrong's solution was right, but at the end of the game he does think that *something* must be done to stop the eternal war.

[@plaguedoctorjamespainshe6009]

Armstrong did not identify the problems, he is the problem They consider those problems features of the system He was like colonel Kurtis, from Apocalypse Now/Hearth of darkness, willing to go mask off instead of pretending they are good or better or civilized

[@gregstinkston7634]

It's a shame the guy who made this game just made Babylon's Fall and the only metal gear game were likely to see is another "thing" like survive. That and more gambling machines. Those will live on beyond us all.

[@chrissmith9167]

I wouldnt even say political or economic power but just power in general. People who can commit acts of violence as easy as they breath. Like Raiden.

[@AspelShuyin]

Armstrong is basically a right wing libertarian. "Here's all the problems and why they're bad. Anyway, that's why the people who made it in that world should still be on top". I actually talk about this and how Armstrong influenced Raiden and where the series might have gone in my video on the subject (It's not as good as Jacob's) kzbin.info/www/bejne/qmfIm5-HnMiKh6M

[@ImGonnaFudgeThatFish]

@@gregstinkston7634 to be fair, mgrr is a much higher budget game than babylons fall, and babylon was designed as a live service game so it was never going to end well

[@alexandras3596]

I can't believe a nearly decade old game is still so prevalent to this day with it's gameplay, soundtrack, and story. It's crazy how with every year passed the story feels keeps hitting closer and closer to our reality.

[@dylangergutierrez]

But enough about Fallout: New Vegas

[@Yixdy]

@@dylangergutierrez buzzpinga

[@Newbmann]

I mean we dont see a tea party ancap senitor wearing a yellow tie. Especially not in Colorado.

[@killianjudemisagal9754]

joe biden, wake up.

[@donov25]

I mean I think about the ending to MGS2 on nearly a daily basis...

[@Evergreen_Trees_are_cool]

2 things: 1) this is the video that finally got through to me with the concept of what a meme really is, so good job 2) MGR and Bayonetta coming from the same creators explains a lot about both games

[@zeroa69]

naw this game was already insane long before platinum got involved. kojima had a made the new engine and had the story done etc but the foxcon engine took to long to develop and the asshats at konami forced him to move onto making solid 5 so he got platinum to take over. also foxcon was waaay to advanced for the 360/ps3 to handle the slice n dice action kojima demanded. the original build allowed you to cut literally everything to bits and that trashed the puny ram current gen consoles had.

[@yaqubebased1961]

Bayonetta was directed by Hideki Kamiya

[@morganevans7096]

​@@zeroa69 yeah I can't imagine you could cut much up before you'd filled up the 512mb of ram the Xbox had, or the 256mb ram and 256mb Vram the Ps3 had. They started to lag a lot if you cut up someone in the game as is into too many pieces, let alone tracking the entire arena being cut to pieces I do miss destruction based games though. The map on Red faction guerrilla where each team had a huge building and you had to smash the others while defending your own was amazing fun

[@TalkingVidya]

I think it's pretty funny how, years later, the game we all talk about it's Revengance and not Phantom Pain. Don't get me wrong, PP has a lot to say, but Revengance it's so brutally honest and direct about what it has to say that you can't help but keep talking about it.

[@mikedanielespeja6128]

hahaha... peepee has a lot to say

[@goroakechi6126]

I mean, it makes sense. Phantom Pain’s entire point is how War is destructive to everything and everyone and will only leave you in its pain long after it’s over. Rising is a spectacle-enhanced rejection and rebellion against those saying that we can’t do anything about war. It’s more empowering that way, in a sense.

[@donkeykongisytpooping3002]

Where I come from lots of people talk about Phantom Pain.

[@sasaider3711]

@@goroakechi6126 Language and its affection on peoples, revenge and suffering, cultural identification, subjective perspective?

[@donkeykongisytpooping3002]

@@sasaider3711 They didn’t listen to the cassette tapes.

[@Anonymous-73]

Let’s not forget the fact that Senator Armstrong was literally onscreen for 5 seconds before the final boss fight

[@gratuitouslurking8610]

And that five seconds, where he's complaining about the short lifetime of cherry blossoms, adds quite a bit to his personal thesis and motives later as well.

[@maybebaking5943]

@@gratuitouslurking8610 ONE FUCKING WEEK

[@hoover6291]

@@maybebaking5943 Is it really so bad? They're only trees.

[@beybladesinmyheels1267]

Yes but hes talked about since mistral and hyped up the entire game through mystery, speculation from characters, and the indirect and direct commentary from bosses.

[@hulias3107]

@@gratuitouslurking8610 Isnt that just in the sam dlc?

[@haydenhayden]

I’m surprised you didn’t mention the line: “You’re not greedy... You’re batshit insane!” What Armstrong represents is not taking more than he needs, it’s burning everything down in a shown of pure superiority. He cares not for anyone, even himself: it’s his goal. Nothing will stop him from achieving it because he’s already removed his biggest obstacle: his humanity.

[@tripplordofinconvenience9953]

E

[@afhamzaki2588]

No Humanity [ *OK* ]

[@thestatusjoe9949]

Interestingly, we see the same thing with modern day ultra wealthy capitalists and politicians. Look at people like Jeffrey Epstein and his clients. They don’t gain any concrete benefits from their sick actions, it’s purely a sadistic display of power and superiority. Once you have that much power, you can do anything you want with zero repercussions, and the only thing that can even give rise to any pleasure is the most depraved and taboo actions imaginable. The power gained by those whose only goal is personal profit is a corrupting force, driving people who may have been evil in a self interested, greedy way into the psychotic evil of someone who enjoys making others suffer for no other reason than enjoyment

[@Yan_Alkovic]

He had his humanity replaced with.... *NANOMACHINES, SON*

[@MrGemHunter]

Fittingly MGR predicted the shift in modern politics, from cynical corpo grifters to genuine mad people working for their own deranged ideologies, empowered by those same corpo grifters unwittingly playing with fire.

[@christopheraustin5915]

I loved the juxtaposition of having this vast conspiracy that was revealed to be something so banal as trying to start wars for money. Jack was left confronted by his relationship to violence and it all came down to just another jingoist trying to live out their genocidal dreams. That moment where the cyborg ninja was confronted by the nano-machine-enhanced United states senator, he said probably the most sincere thing I’ve heard a character say in a piece of fiction: “You’ve got to be fucking KIDDING ME!” It’s ludicrous, the characters know it, but everyone keeps going because it is what it is.

[@concept8192]

I also like how this absurd outcome is *perfect* for Jack as a character. It's difficult to protect the weak and kill the evil bad guys when there's a bunch of corruption and mind games and stuff. Getting up on top of Excelsus and being like "oh it's literally just this one guy?? Seriously??" is so cool because if there's one thing Jack the Ripper is good at doing, it's killing one guy.

[@Greendude0101]

The Zandatsu mechanic is brilliant. Usually in games when a boss summons minions it’s annoying, but when Blade Wolf and Sundowner called up their goons I went “thank God”

[@myatthu7165]

yeah and it was also the reason why they can go gunho with mob difficulty.Like,in many hack and slash games,mobs are just fodder and don't pose much of a threat.But in mgr,that damn gorilla-like things killed me more than fricking moonson.

[@ultrakid8497]

metal gear rising is the only game where you want the boss to temporarily become immortal go away and summon an entire army's worth of minions

[@theenginar6651]

Fr the basic cyborg guys are the best enemies in the game. The others are too hard to kill. I swear I've died to the gorilla guy more than I died to a boss.

[@theenginar6651]

@@myatthu7165 Exactly, I hate that freight elevator. While fighthing the hammer guy one of gorrila-like guys straight up jumped on me out of nowhere, taking 30% of my health.

[@sanguin3]

@@myatthu7165 The Mastiff is just a BS way to force stealth. They can jump off the map and literally teleport to the top of your head. They can even see when you sneak up behind them for a stealth execution.

[@Umbra_Nocturnus]

There's a few reasons: - The gameplay is great. - The plot isn't greedy, it's batshit insane. - The memes are exquisite. - The music is pure FIRE. - NANOMACHINES, SON!

[@MegaJani]

Nononono You see, the memes are *exquisite*

[@julitimev8680]

You are making the mother of all memes jack

[@reflikecat672]

Yes *SON*

[@du_nut_tuch_me4230]

Memes, the DNA of the soul

[@Umbra_Nocturnus]

@Shinidoshi My embarrassment is immeasurable and my day is ruined.

[@RamadaArtist]

"And then you rip out his fucking heart." Careful Jacob, this sounds like a call to action.

[@Palladinium21]

yeah haha don't want people to start doing that right?? haha....unless......

[@quedtion_marks_kirby_modding]

And is shown as raiden's shadow as they are too halfs of the same coin (as the boss theme suggest)*

[@maxieprimo2758]

What he kinda funnily misses is that Raiden and Armstrong are eerily similar. Woopsie.

[@umjammerlammy9993]

@Maxie Primo they are, but one is a wealthy elite politician who wants to commit domestic genocide and the other is a former child soldier who is killing people who abuse power to harm others. They both love killing but their backgrounds and motivations drastically change what that means morally

[@voyagerwitch]

​@@maxieprimo2758 the reason raiden knows about the plight of the weak and armstrong doesnt is because raiden knows how to listen to other people and take their experiences into consideration, and armstrong just treats the world like his own monroe doctrine backyard

[@ivy7919]

the final chapter of this essay is one of my favorite pieces of writing ever. "then you rip out his f****** heart" gives me chills

[@6Sparx9]

Except the political slant in the news articles he decided to show ruined it. It could have had a greater message, not just some TDS wet dream. Shame.

[@Demoxal]

YESSS I WAS WAITING FOR SOMEONE TO TALK ABOUT THAT the punctuation of that sentence was amazing

[@therealpersephonechannel1134]

It give me goosebumps Every. F*ck*ng. Time. (It is my absolute favorite of Jacob😊)

[@simbriant]

I always found the post boss codex messages interesting and a bit creepy/sad. Their body is dead or dying. Their brain is still alive. They are using the last few wisps of their life to pass on the message to Raiden.

[@fish_birb]

Pass on the meme, I should say.

[@gannielukks1811]

And there's Sam

[@brandontan2335]

@@gannielukks1811 Dies of cringe

[@Rahnonymous]

The flesh dies, but the memes live on through Raiden. He is the worthy successor of Armstrong in the end, despite opposing and killing him

[@empdisaster10]

@@gannielukks1811 Sam didn’t have any post boss monologue because when he died there was nothing keeping his brain alive. Sam was a normal human with a cyborg suit and a robot arm. When Sam drew his last breath there was no cybernetics in his brain trying to keep it alive so he can say his last words. All the other bosses had cybernetics like that except for Sam, and Armstrong

[@lucyarisato6850]

Honestly, the fact that Max0r’s video ended up on this channel in any regard might be the best unexpected crossover I never knew I needed. Thank you for this.

[@papaspagondo6054]

“My source is that I made it the fuck up” is so iconic it might as well be from the original game

[@cw3726]

That's what I'm saying bro, Maxor makes the world go round

[@levoderso7469]

@@papaspagondo6054 "ive got my one to debate online"

[@detleffleischer9418]

The fact that Jacob immortalized the "Please have lots of sex with me, Kiryu Coco" headline in one of his videos will never not be funny to me lmao

[@Zephyrbal]

It's long been strange to me that Hideo Kojima and whoever he associates with is gifted with the curse of prophecy. Hell, Death Stranding couldn't be out for six months before everyone was locked in a bunker, relying on deliveries and the internet.

[@ninjastreet5]

holy shit I just remembered that Death Stranding came out long before lockdown

[@unnoticed4571]

@@ninjastreet5 I forgot that it did as well, goddammit Kojima and his prophetic abilities

[@JustSomeGuywithEpicGrasses]

@@unnoticed4571 kzbin.infoiBSxWI7bJXI?feature=share

[@aidanmatthewgalea7761]

apollo, readying the dodgeball to throw at headache kojingles every year

[@starwarsfamilyguy0]

Kojima had nothing to do with this

[@innocuoushappenstance6259]

Raiden embraced his violent 'Jack' side by the end of the game because MGRR is about atrocities passing on the 'memes' of trauma and violence to everyone in contact with them. Atrocities, like finding out a modern PMC warlord is using VR to make child soldiers, damage and radicalize everyone they come into contact with, from the secondary trauma Raiden's support team has to process when learning about it, to Raiden himself experiencing trauma directly by being pushed into a situation where he has to resort to incredible levels of unlawful murder just to stop the atrocity, to the kid soldiers themselves being the most directly swept up in it and being taught that violence is the only path possible in their lives. As we get farther out from the epicenter the end effect gets better- the support team's radicalization manifests as taking action against this horror, going on to do activism/research that will help prevent more violence (setting up programs for cyborgs to get jobs outside of mercenary-ing, etc). Raiden, however, ends up in the center of the atrocity in his attempt to fix it, and his radicalization has Armstrong's social meme of 'violence is the only solution' being passed to him completely. He goes off the radar at the end of the game to continue dealing out violent justice because that's what he's learned is the necessary solution. This is tragically a fulfillment of Armstrong's world where everyone brutally fights to enact their own views on the world. The game tells this story over and over by being littered with people who have become radicalized by violence- Mistral was orphaned in the Algerian civil war and then found and killed those who did it, Dolzaev (guy who blew up the plant) supported Chechnya becoming independent from Russia but the movement was crushed by Russia and he went on to become a terrorist, Sam's father and sword-fighting teacher was killed by one of his other students and Sam trained to kill the student back and then went off to become a mercenary, etc, etc. The lyrics in the final song It Has To Be This Way are 'violence breeds violence' and that's the whole point of the game. Raiden falling victim to that is a tragedy, but hopefully the important social work his support team went on to do and the effort to rehabilitate the child soldiers Raiden saved will prevent them (the next generation) from following him. I just think MGRR is neat

[@potatoman-oe5jy]

I am glad you put this into words. It is not a good thing that Raiden is out there being a vigilante, he didn't want to be a soldier anymore, he wanted to live a normal life with the people he loves, but he also prevented a war by playing to that violence. The only thing we can hope for is that the good that Raiden's actions bring is greater than the harm that he causes.

[@yaqubebased1961]

He didn't embrace the Jack side. Jack the Ripper is a persona he created to mimic the personality that was being attributed to him by his enemies on the spot when Monsoon confronted him, in order to avoid dealing with the issues brought up directly. He was at his weakest and most self delusional in that cutscene. The story ends with Raiden being the most resolute and steadfast he's ever been. His journey through MGR made him even more grounded in his true values, once he saw that those who uphold their ideals and values the strongest are those who win.

[@henriquefinger935]

That's why I strongly believe that the lyrics from "The Stains of Time"' are 100% about Raiden and his tragedy.

[@ComfortsSpecter]

Great Comment Thank You

[@conorandkanohi]

Not to mention Monsoon escaping the Cambodian genocide when he was a child

[@Lextorias]

Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance is possibly one of the most perfect examples to me of what a video game can be. Completely unlimited freedom of expression on every front that proves what the medium is capable of infinitely more than graphical stress tests or 40-hour long prestige narratives. A cyborg ninja fist fighting a US Senator for the fate of the world is the peak of what fiction in video games should aspire to. Senator Armstrong's animalistic views of freedom bleed out from his political beliefs into every aspect of the game, and as such MGR stands alone atop the mountain, waiting for a worthy successor who might prove themselves even more "batshit insane".

[@Divinemakyr]

It may have been obvious to others but I only put 2 and 2 together after completing the game of just how much Monsoon and Armstrong agreed with one another.

[@bigmanbarry2299]

@@Divinemakyr everyone agrees with him to some degree, raiden, sam, monsoon ectect

[@gannielukks1811]

Fuck the US senator, we fight a brazilian samurai, that is actually more realistic culturally than a nanomachine-filled Senator.

[@Pine2142]

It's both hilarious and terrifying how Metal Gear portrays "memes" in both a factual ideological way and a comedical way.

[@zeke64333]

Exquisite

[@bringonthevelocirapture]

Even better that the game popularity now a days seems to have essentially proved the game right. So. That's weird.

[@omoriperocondrip9130]

@@bringonthevelocirapture the original message transcended it's original methods about memes. It changes the ideas by deh funneh, and it still works, it's like changing the battery of a car with a single potato and see that it somehow works, isn't supposed to, but somehow does.

[@k2ggers961]

comedical

[@fgqgqlfqsfsffeff]

Don't know if anyone knows, but "memes" in this case refers to the genes passed on through centuries of human after human. It's not referencing the kind of memes we know today.

[@EposVox]

Maaaaan it makes me so happy that people are loving this game more over time.

[@MrDeadlySamurai]

GIVE US A GODDAMN SEQUAL.... PLEEAASE

[@Zhiijue]

@@MrDeadlySamurai They can't, they fired the people who made it

[@jeixs]

420th like Also yeah its always nice to come back to the game being more and more appreciated

[@DubThaGod]

@@MrDeadlySamurai we won’t be getting any metal gear unfortunately

[@MrDeadlySamurai]

@@DubThaGod i know…. But let a man dream 😂

[@jeffneinenstein5923]

The funny thing about Armstrong is that he is quite possibly the most stereotypical American you can possibly think of. Aside from his name (which is incredibly stereotypically American in its own right), he’s a huge, loud, bombastic man without a hint of subtlety, is utterly insane, and loves his country with every fiber of his being, but loves freedom even more so. You almost admire his sheer confidence, but regardless of whether you agree with him or not, you know he’s gonna live in your head rent free, not only because of how memorable he is, but also because Americans hate paying rent and taxes.

[@jad2290]

Utterly false , rent no, taxes yes.. How could a man with a significant amount of testosterone in his blood agree to such extortion and usery?

[@gremlinman9724]

he actually says in the second half of the fight that he fucking hates america, that it's rotten to the core. his plan is to burn america to the ground, turn it into his idea of freedom, which is where the "strong" get to stomp out the "weak" for the rest of time.

[@mehmemeh5285]

@@jad2290 But you'd submit yourself to some landlord?

[@AthelstanKing]

He's also the least metal gear character you could possibly imagine. A caricature, dressed as a strawman, riding a paper tiger, eating low hanging fruit, while stuck in a pigeon hole...it'd almost be impressive, if it wasn't so cheap, lazy, and unfit to be mentioned next to source material.

[@thebestthebestthebestthebe5249]

@@AthelstanKingnano machines

[@XDarkEcho]

Well, I guess well can all say, "This game aged well." Props to the devs, I thought the game was gaining a second wind solely because of the memes, but I can see now it really just opens the lid on the state of current times, even as just satire; YEARS before this stuff even started popping off.

[@overdosingontomatoes8619]

honestly with how many times I have seen a metal gear game, or to be specific, a game with relation to hideo kojima resurface, Im not even surprised anymore.

[@muftalbatil9938]

@Ronald Nygma Really?

[@foggytuesday101]

“They made twitter into a plot point.” - Max0r This game is bonkers at 100mph with over the top action that never stops being amazing to watch

[@eliyugend4660]

the "cut a man in half" stealth becomes even funnier when raiden then screams "BULLSEYE" and still no one notices

[@terminhaider9695]

you have no idea how much time I wasted hesitating wondering if I was going to get caught in stealth portions on my first playthrough jesus christ

[@ArgonPlasma]

The whole thing with Raiden killing a sitting U.S. Senator is even funnier considering how, in his debut, he kills Solidus, a former U.S. President, in a duel to the death atop Federal Hall.

[@monochaos9442]

Raiden, probably: If I had a nickel for every time I murdered a US politician with a sword, I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice, right?

[@Xick]

President Johnson missing after hostage crisis; former President Sears found dead wearing Zone of the Enders cosplay, now suspected of crashing boat robot into Manhattan

[@raveneskridge3143]

"and then you rip out his *fucking* heart" got me? i didn't expect the end of the video to be so sudden, i thought there would be a longer sentence about how the fight ends. but instead after hearing about this man's "perfect" American with no empathy that you pull his synthetic heart out... feels like justice a little.

[@alexw8357]

If not justice at least revenge...nce

[@UwasaWaya]

You and me both. I felt like applauding. That hit the perfect, cathartic note to sum up a lot of pent up frustration.

[@eli3998]

He ended it the way the entirety of revengence acted. No subtlety, just a perfect, clear message

[@JS-rp4pq]

armstrong was right

[@mozarteanchaos]

@@JS-rp4pq bait

[@brainydiode]

Every Jacob Geller video is fire, but seeing one about my third favorite video game ever is mind-blowingly amazing. Thanks for making my week!

[@guitarskill]

What's your number 1 and 2?

[@brainydiode]

@@guitarskill Number 1 is Xenoblade Chronicles 2 and number 2 is Breath of the Wild. I am a Nintendo fanboy.

[@guitarskill]

@@brainydiode Xenoblade 1 is in my top 10! I just bought a Switch recently, so I'm looking forward to finally getting to play 2 soon.

[@brainydiode]

@@guitarskill I hope you enjoy it! As you can probably tell, I think it's really fantastic!

[@HolyDeviant1]

I could only hope to achieve a similar joy by seeing him talk about Dwarf Fortress

[@Slaanash]

11:20 The subweapons thing wasn't a "choice", per se. They had to have the menu so the game could unload the old weapon then load the new one without crashing it because of the dismemberment system being a massive resource hog.

[@Karuvitomsk]

I don't remember where I saw this -- a devlog, maybe? -- but I do recall it specifically being an issue of too little memory to keep all of the subweapons' movesets "active" at once, meaning they have to be loaded in individually. If we ever get a remaster (and that's a big if), I would hope this is the first thing they tackle, since it's one of the game's biggest flaws for sure.

[@alexandrumarin8981]

@@Karuvitomsk stop asking for a remaster. Start asking for a sequel.

[@sonicplays8740]

@@alexandrumarin8981 a triquel?

[@TwilightFlower9]

@@alexandrumarin8981 Konami would fuck it up

[@alexandrumarin8981]

@@TwilightFlower9 they'd fuck up a remake too

[@empdisaster10]

I feel one of the main reasons it’s popular now of all times is it’s almost become a point of counter culture. Metal gear games have always had that theme of pointing out the flaws in society and it’s one of the draws. With the world in the state it is, everything they are saying, which might have been exaggerated for when it was released, is almost entirely true now. Hell that can be said for most the metal gear solid games. Revengance fills this by pretty much going against what most mainstream culture says and makes a point to say everything is fucked, the world is a mess, politics is a joke, hell having the final boss be a literal US senator who wants to pretty much send the US Into a state of kill or be killed while in 2013 is a wacky concept, in 2022 feels like something that legit would happen, like I feel like any day I could look at a new feed and see “US senator shares radical beliefs about social Darwinism” and just go “Eh. What else is new”

[@ekki1993]

Making a game like MGR:R past 2020 would lead it to be called "woke" or "too political". It feels like it would happen to everyone who dislikes the current status quo and that's felt like an attack by everyone who is invested in it.

[@ekki1993]

@imakz6319 Correctly identifying problems is the first step in the populist's playbook. The next one is providing bad solutions tinted with left or right wing rhethoric to push an agenda. You buy into the propaganda by highlighting that he "correctly identifies problems" as if that justifies proposing the bad solutions. The game makes the solutions explicitly absurd (by early 2010s standards) to bring the point forward that the people selling that ideology don't care about the problems, they just want to push their agenda with whatever excuse they find, hence looking for real problems and twisting them to try and justify their decisions. Not sure why you feel the need to focus so much on being left wing or being a political dissident. Also, the enlightenment was wrong in a more fundamental sense. Man isn't "good" nor "bad", because those are culturally dependent, very subjective classifications. Focusing on that is either propaganda or impractical philosophy.

[@justanamericandoggo6725]

@@ekki1993 nah it would be called racist because Raiden dresses up like a "stereotypical mexican" probably.

[@ekki1993]

@@justanamericandoggo6725 Do you honestly think the videogame with the US conservative senator caricature wouldn't be called woke? It's a very straightforward condemnation of conservative talking points. Back in 2010 it was "haha funny exaggerated political views", now it's straight up alt-right discourse.

[@justanamericandoggo6725]

@@ekki1993 would probably be critisized by both sides then.

[@dopey473]

It's so weird to see you of all people, not only talk about a game like MGRR but also talk about it's gameplay. Another Jacob Geller banger I must say. I don't think this game's legacy will ever die, just fade away until it jumps back into fame. And I'm glad someone finally put into words how this game feels, you actually feel like a cyborg: fast yet heavy and absolutely relentless. It's not nearly as smooth and detailed as DMC but it doesn't have to be.

[@Em_Branco]

It's worth noting that Armstrong literally utters the phrase "Might makes Right" during the boss fight. This is the perfect encapsulation of his philosophy. He believes that by "leveling" the playing field and making everyone pull themselves by their bootstraps the USA will become a nation of Übermenschen, where everyone is free from any coercion and will do whatever the hell they want. For him, morality is a spook and we should crush anyone who's under our boot because, at the end of the day, strength (the ability to exert our power) is the only real parameter the world has. Jack is the perfect answer to this belief. Even Armstrong recognizes this at the end of the fight. Jack is always performing this philosophy when he kills anyone who's stopping him from achieving his goals, he also admits that his actions are not guided by some sort of moral high ground. Where the real difference shows is that he wishes to fight for his version of the world where the people he loves do not need to suffer. He will exert his will into the world, just like Armstrong wished he did, but he will do it to protect people, not crush them. And isn't this how we act on our moral principles? When a (real) US Senador, president, etc. impose their will, saying the US should invade another country, how do we fight against it? Do we shove our heads into the clouds, and talk about the moral high ground? Or do we exert our will into the world, and try to oppose it as much as we can?

[@jonesjones6279]

Nice

[@hyperfixatedd]

fuck yes dude viva la revolucion!

[@Sagalink]

Yeah its the funny thing about Might Makes Right philosophy. If you beat them, they have the accept it.

[@LordofEars]

@@Sagalink no pasaran

[@a52productions]

Im a big fan of the webcomic KILL SIX BILLION DEMONS, which is in large part about the meaning of power and cycles of violence. A common mantra in the series is "reach heaven through violence". This can be interpreted in two ways. The first is "in order to enact meaningful, positive change in the world, you have to violently impose your will upon it and perform drastic actions fundamentally against society and possibly yourself". The second is "go die in combat". I think about that a lot.

[@vincenttorrijos9680]

The first time i ever saw the "Rules of Nature" moment, back when the game first came out, immediately cemented this as the masterpiece I'm excited more people see it for today.

[@furb246]

Revengance is what happens when creators when genuine talent and understanding of their medium enter The Cringe, push through it, embrace it, and emerge in a place where all that remains is absolute sincerity. It's an unbridled, uncompromising commitment to a vision, without a tinge of embarrassment or apology for any part of itself. Many games have highly talented creators. Many games have uncompromising creators. Very few have both, and that's what sets MGR apart.

[@grantus_pax]

I feel like there should be a name for this approach to storytelling. Post-cringe? New sincerity?

[@Reader999]

It carved up its own path. Follow its own set of rules. Revengeance establish the meaning of it's own accord, which is why no amount of "cringe" or self impose pov can stop it becuz it clearly has a voice of its own. We can see its memes and the reality of human nature at work. Even now, it will continue on as is like a fine bottle of wine.

[@wallyhackenslacker]

It's to the point one could be forgiven for thinking that "I may be cringe, but that makes me free!" is an actual line in the game instead of a joke in a YTP.

[@Drekromancer]

⁠@@grantus_pax I like Post-Cringe for this game in particular. But in broader terms, I like the term, "radical sincerity."

[@PurposelessRabbitholes]

What a great final line at 24:06

[@PulseBladeenjoyer]

Off topic, but I loved your dying light two video!

[@Kazperh]

Off topic, but I loved your boneworks video!

[@liamrandall2707]

Charlie, this man has too many braincells for both of us

[@blockhead134]

It's kinda misleading tho. Kind of the point by the end was that they were both more or less "strong person using violence to impose their own morals on the world at large." By that point though, Raiden had embraced Jack "Don't Care Didn't Ask" the Ripper. Imo it was a fairly dark ending showing that the world is safe for now, but all it takes is a cyborg stronger than Raiden to push it over again.

[@tripplordofinconvenience9953]

E

[@tristanneal9552]

The final boss of a game made in 2013 being a US Senator that says he's going to "Make America Great Again" is just absolutely mind boggling.

[@RoyalFusilier]

I mean, yeah, it is, but also Reagan ran on "Let's Make America Great' in 1980, and it was old hat when *he* did it. MGR seizes on a lot of persistent themes that haven't changed, which is why it doesn't lose relevancy but only seems to gain it as time goes on. That's how it seems to have the power to accurately predict the future.

[@Inglonias]

@@RoyalFusilier It also helps that despite how bat-shit insane his stories are, Kojima _keeps being correct about how the world works._ I dunno what drug he's smoking that makes him able to predict the future, but I'm not sure I want any.

[@savemgs]

I mean Ronald Reagan did it in the '80s.

[@0uttaS1TE]

@@Inglonias It's kinda uncanny. Even Death Stranding ended up predicting the social consequences of Covid

[@Valsorayu]

​@@0uttaS1TE [Panicked Screaming]

[@yoursonisold8743]

I am sad that nobody ever seems to talk about the Codec conversations which actually quite flesh out the supporting cast and show you the sides of the old Raiden that still is more human and relatable. If you just played the game without Codec you could be forgiven for not even know Raiden had a wife or a son, let alone a past full of world twisting conspiracies and secret organisations. The game goes out of its way to hide most of its roots in Metal Gear Solid behind a curtain for those who care enough (except for meeting Sunny, which gets a lot of attention, as she alongside Raiden is the future of this world). I would compare it to MGS3 in that way where many people play the game without ever touching the Codec outside of saving the game, missing all the absurd details, the heartfelt human connections and the humor that it brings. Both games can be enjoyed and even called Masterpieces without those calls, but it is one of the major things that gives the story charme and depth.

[@Cl-2048]

Yeah, skipping the Codecs would mean you miss out on Doktor telling Raiden to take a DOOMP.

[@yoursonisold8743]

@@Cl-2048 Actually the DOOMP scene is scripted into a mandatory codec call.

[@Cl-2048]

@@yoursonisold8743 Oh ok

[@samfivedot]

I still think about the moment in the Two Best Friends Play LP of this game where they're watching Armstrong's big speech and Pat says something like, "You know, there are people watching this right now and thinking 'I would totally vote for that guy'"

[@UwasaWaya]

There are people already commenting about it. It says something that people can base their political stance on bare-faced, wanton cruelty.

[@ΓιάννηςΜεταξάς-ρ5φ]

Depressing really

[@BababooeyGooey]

@@UwasaWaya The funniest/saddest part is that those people who advocate for their completely nutshit ancap society is that 99 percent of them would get their shit kicked in such a world. They're always the first to snot and cry and call for their mommies when the bullets start flying.

[@grimkahn3775]

@@UwasaWaya despite how armstrong is portrayed in this video, there are redeeming points to his critique of american society. Critiques a lot of people resonate with.

[@Msoulwing]

@@grimkahn3775 His critique is excellent, it's the whole doing anything including child soldier cyborgs to achieve his goals that make him a less than ideal presidential candidate. That and not explaining his policy proposals. How exactly is the law supposed to change to fit the individual?

[@NoHandle44]

21:27 I love how everyone who shows this moment ALWAYS has to disclaim that they didn't add it in themselves. Cause no one would believe that a game about terrorism would put this joke in.

[@YEs69th420]

Though people don't tend to bother, the 100% optional CODEC calls hidden in the menus are actually very very good and worth listening to sometime. The stuff in the chapter leading up to Monsoon is especially radicalising.

[@Alloveck]

Yeah, I had my issues with the game, but the codec calls weren't one of them. Time and time again I was impressed by how many seeming plot holes or contradictions were neatly filled as soon as they came if you called the codec. It's like someone played the game when it was mostly finished, with a super critical eye toward the storytelling and world building, made notes of every possible problem or unclear aspect at each point, and then added codec calls at those parts to clear things up. So many times I play a game and end up wondering if the writer(s) ever played it themselves, or if anybody just did at least one fresh outsider perspective critical pass on the presentation and worldbuilding. This was one of the few times I had no complaints in that regard. Still really really wish all that quality in regards to the storytelling wasn't undermined by the game being so short, narrow, and linear though.

[@landonhagan450]

How was it radicalizing?

[@MindForgedManacle]

@@Alloveck I'm fine with the linearity. Linearity isn't bad (or good) in and of itself. I think it plays to MGR's strengths. It is very short though.

[@davispeterson1876]

@@Alloveck I think the brevity is why they were able to polish it as heavily as they did.

[@Alloveck]

@@davispeterson1876 Yeah, less content means it easier to polish what's there. But the minimal content also, as is so often the case with the overall loosely defined genre this game fits in, undermines the super deep and complex combat in the first place. Games like this design combat as deep as the ocean, but then fit it into a kid's wading pool worth of content to hone it in. And as short as it is, MGRR probably has the worst ever ratio of combat depth to game content out of the whole "stylish action" bunch. By the time I'd 100% cleared MGRR, I wasn't tired of the combat. But I was way, way past done playing the same few missions over and over. I really, really wish it had a game structure closer to MGSV. Even if that game also had you attack the same outposts over and over, its more open ended presentation made gradually improving your skills while treading the same locations far less annoying. Anyway, I get that it had a limited budget and was made very quickly, the devs did the best they could no doubt. But regardless, MGRR was still way too short, narrow, and linear for my tastes and that alone keeps it out of my personal top tier, excellent story and worldbuilding or not.

[@iochiglaucus]

15:00 In musical theatre (and musicals in general) there's a saying "When talking isn't enough, you sing. When singing isn't enough, you dance." this is an interest mirror of this XD "When gameplay isn't enough, play music. When music isn't enough, you sing." it's so cool.

[@Sourslushie931]

One thing i like is a detail in the japan script of armstrong's speech, "If I'm elected I'll crush all the degenerates from society! All the pathetic money makers and blue sky thinkers, the socialites, herbivores & metrosexuals. I'll crush them myself if need be!" The reason I like this is because players will understand who armstrong sees as "weak" in the english script he simply says the "weak" will be purged. Leaving players wonder who really is weak in armstrongs eyes. Edit. Here's armstrong's full speech in the japan script for those who are interested. Armstrong: Oh? That's what you think eh? Listen up I'm gonna teach you a few things. For sure I'm after approval ratings and money... but there's something more... "I have a dream!" For sure, the people today have national pride. But their idea of a 'strong america' is completely worthless! What I want is 'pure' freedom! The freedom to exercise your own authority as you see fit, without hiding under the umbrella of the law! Naturally if everyone exercises their own power strife is inevitable. But that's fine, that's exactly the kind of nation I want to build. A world borne of real struggle! As things are now the people are too complacent, too lazy! I'll give them all a wake up call. A call to true patriotism! I'll give them something to be truly proud of. The pigs will be eaten alive! If you have a problem with someone, deal with it like a man, with your own two hands! That's the america I'm trying to build. If I'm elected I'll crush all the degenerates from society! All the pathetic money makers and blue sky thinkers, the socialites, herbivores & metrosexuals. I'll crush them myself if need be! The weak will be driven out with only the strongest remaining. From the chaos a better america will be born, An america that hearkens back to the good old days. As people we'll return to how things should be! I don't know if it's because of their memes, but the american dream is corrupted beyond measure... war and violence is just another business venture, but soon such wars will be no more... I'll take this worthless society and dismantle the systemic violence within it! I'll bring back the individuals right to take the law into their own hands!

[@zyibesixdouze4863]

It knew that sentence had to have been edited in some way for the western audience, but that Armstrong calls out specific demographics is something that definitely should've stayed.

[@VicStrange9]

That so reminds me of Lewis Prothero in V for Vendetta.

[@four-en-tee]

idk, leaving it ambiguous is better imo since its a generalization, which is very in character for who Armstrong is.

[@Ryzeer2]

Honestly makes him a bit more boring. Part of the thing I liked about Armstrong's philosophy was his definition of what weak was, the weak minded, the people who dont think, and the people who cultivate that weakness. This just makes him any typical Auth Right I could find on the internet.

[@marverickmercer1968]

I think Armstrong made it very who the weak is when he talk about "Fuck all these limp-dick lawyers and chickenshit bureaucrats. Fuck this 24-hour Internet spew of trivia and celebrity bullshit!"

[@Just_Some_Guy_with_a_Mustache]

This game is not one of those beltway pansy-games. It could break the Internet in two with its bare hands! You gotta love this game manages to juggle scenes of dialogue where characters debate philosophy about war and society, and scenes where cyborg politicians kick other cyborgs on top of metal dinosaurs designed to fight nukes, only to have a sound byte of a crowd cheering like the latter cyborg cleared the goal post. For many years to come, you can bet that our memes do not end here.

[@patz1008]

ah the good old original mustache guy

[@spacetacos7574]

@@patz1008 and not the garou

[@nikomiller]

most Metal Gear games manage to juggle speeches about philosophy and politics with over the top wild action, yet this one gets way more memes. Probably due to the fact how more accessible Rising is

[@electronresonator8882]

22:35 "he claims that war will benefit the American people" I hope this time, people can finally understand that .....

[@seka1nix]

​@@nikomiller Yeah, it's both more accessible in terms of how easily you can buy and download the game, but in the way its presented and played.

[@mercury5003]

23:03 its nice to see someone who's actually able to see through the fanaticism that people seem to fall for with with this character and state his goals as they are. Its really interesting how in making what could almost be considered a parody of a "typical politician" they ended up making a politician that is actually able to successfully sell himself to a large portion of the audience. Recently I was reading armstrongs page on the metal gear wiki, and im not sure where this is stated in game but in the lore armstrong told his speech writer that "people dont care about right or wrong so long as you can put an appealing spin on it" The fact people unironically root for armstrong is proof of this.

[@dracoultimus9514]

Unironically, especially given how this video (rightfully) lavishes praise on MGR for doing away with pretense, the game was way too subtle about Armstrong's motivations.

[@griggorirasputin6555]

He does have a booming voice, in a time when so many people feel wrapped up in bureaucracy, media, and technology it can be easy to forget the benefits of structure and just desire to burn it down. maybe something like that, maybe not.

[@dracoultimus9514]

@@griggorirasputin6555 It's mostly because the most surface level read of his speech to Raiden is that he wants to destroy the war economy just as badly as Raiden himself to grant people self-actualization, while dropping genuine hard truths (America being corrupt down to its very roots, the media being extremely trashy). Unfortunately, that's where people tune out. If you further examine what he's saying, he actually has no problem with war and the horrific devastation it brings, or even exploiting it for his own gain even if means maiming CHILDREN. The flaws of capitalism and the unspeakable evils it produces are only bad because they have structure, if people are allowed to do those as they please, well then that's just how the world works! Fuck having empathy for others, or lifting lowly ones up high, it's every man for himself*! *As long as I can be on top

[@kcatarino]

Sadly, fascists will love a fascist. We saw it happen in real life. The game saw it coming.

[@samfivedot]

people get lured in by "Fuck American pride, fuck the media, fuck this 24/7 spew of celebrity bullshit" and forget that Armstrong's plan is literally to rip out the brains of impoverished children, hook them up to VR, and force them to run endless combat drills in order to engineer the perfect soldiers. Like, he's cartoonishly monstrous

[@Bl4nkshell]

It's really sad we are never going to have a sequel for this masterpiece, but maybe it's a good thing seeing the current state of Konami.

[@SinHurr]

And the world. MGSR was too prescient for its own good.

[@BMoser-bv6kn]

Seems like the pachinko gambit didn't pan out as much as they hoped and they've been forced to make video games again. Guess you can really only make ONE print run of pachinko machines per brand before you saturate your market. A very shallow well. Someday maybe. It won't be the same since some of the key people will be different, of course...

[@magicalgirl1296]

It's funny, back when this game came out I only had surface knowledge of Metal Gear and was wondering how a bombastic action game would fit into a famous stealth franchise. When I saw the game it was totally insane and I was like "okay they kinda just did their own thing and it works." But then I actually saw someone play MGS2. And I realized that my assumptions about MGS were wrong, MGR fits in much better than I thought, and poor Raiden has been putting up with this shit since he first started lol.

[@dadity9142]

Yeah MGS2 was my first of the series back when I was around 5 or 6 and I played it dozens and dozens of times, and I always rooted for him and Rose haha

[@salsamancer]

MGR is more Metal Gear then even MGSV was

[@wrestlinganime4life288]

Still remember the backslash for the debut of Raiden

[@mickomoo]

MGS 2 is very specifically a "meta" game, that is far more deconstructionist than MGS 1 or any of the MG games before it (and possibly MGS3 but I haven't played that). As Jacob alluded to, those other games feel more grounded because of their technobable, their worldbuilding, and the fact that everyone takes themselves very seriously. MGS2 I think more so than 1 throws off the pretext, in part because some interpretations of the game read Raiden as a proxy for the player, and Kojima is basically trolling you for thinking you can just be a mindless action hero.

[@dadity9142]

@@mickomoo Yeah the vast amount of times I've played it has definitely shaped the way I like stories. And reason you brought up is why I think to this day I still love it, it's just one big meta mind fuck troll. Another game I love that does this on a less wacky scale would be Spec Ops The Line

[@ShiroNero94]

The thought that MGRR is in fact a musical is a statement that has been trapped inside of me for the almost 400h of playtime I have through this game for almost a decade, but a braver man needed to grab it and pluck it out of me, thank you Mr. Geller, you made me whole.

[@noanswer1864]

The insanity is starting to feel less like insanity as time passes. At this point, the story has gone from Japanese strangeness to ahead of its time, and as things get crazier, it'll seem even more sane.

[@TheArtOfMind]

Played the game in 2013 (on release) and it instantly became one of my favourite games. Unfortunately, the game wasn’t respected amongst most “metal gear fans” so it never got a sequel. Now, all of a sudden, Metal Gear Rising is rising in popularity.

[@andrewdrakehallfr5406]

certainly earned its name of Metal Gear "Rising" didn't it?

[@doclouis4236]

Everyone including the Internet love this game because of the sheer absurdity of everything happening and the absolute spectacle of the action which makes the game very memorably entertaining in the long term. The story and themes really don't hold a candle to the other Metal Gear Solid games that at least attempt too be taken seriously even if they have their quirks, they at least try too be subtle. Metal Gear Rising characters and story are about as over-the-top as pretty much every of Platinum's games are, which does sort of make everything way too hoaky to be taken seriously. It's also why the MGS fanbase kind of dislikes Twin Snakes because of the goofy disconnected cutscenes in the game.

[@federicoricca2512]

​@@doclouis4236 you're wrong. Twin snakes is disliked for being a crappier version of mgs 1, metal gear fanboys just hate mgr because muh stealth and serious tone (which isn't even respected on metal gear games)

[@stevele4877]

@@federicoricca2512 Wait, because of serious tone? This reminds me a little too well of the Internet Codec scene from MGS2.

[@Spillow-C]

it didn't get a sequel because its was a flop too, 1.2 millions sales (counting Steam too), main metal gear games are at 6-7 millions

[@lazysylph3312]

Somewhere in the comments in of one of the “collective consciousness” videos on this site, a political argument I started over 5 years ago is still going, devoid of my input. I love this game.

[@tanker00v25]

Is that a fact or a assumption? Either way this game really is a masterpiece

[@ViashinoWizard]

So, the reason you have to pause and go into a menu to switch subweapons is because of hardware limitations: in order to swap weapons without interrupting gameplay, the game would need to have the different models/animations/moves/etc pre-loaded, but the physics engine that lets you dynamically cut things into multiple pieces used so much processing power that the game couldn't handle running it while also keeping everything loaded for quickswapping.

[@manjackson2772]

There's a very simple explanation for having to pause the game to switch weapons: The PS3 has no RAM. They were already pushing it to the limit with how much you can cut things, they just didn't have room in the PS3's *half a gig of RAM* for live weapon switching. If it had come out a year or two later on the PS4 it definitely would have had it.

[@casualsatanist]

It’s marvelous that this soundtrack is finally getting the love it deserves, 14:23 is an I C O N I C moment

[@Ryocniel]

I have yet to actually watch the video, so maybe I'm not exactly treading new ground here, but I'm just gonna throw it out there that I think Armstrong is definitely one of the main reasons the game has managed to resurge. His speech (or rather speeches) are not only iconic, memorable, and entertaining as hell, but also more relevant than ever now.

[@BonzerMrT]

Kojima and the inspiration that he created with MG truly has always been ahead of it’s time. The team behind Revengence knew it was gonna be crazy, but they were legit with making points when the story gets serious

[@nathancarter8239]

History repeats; Ronald Reagan's slogan was also "Make America Great Again", and we all know how *THAT* turned out.

[@ΓιάννηςΜεταξάς-ρ5φ]

@@nathancarter8239 fuckin Republicans...

[@crdt2779]

armstrong has also been in a lot of memes resurfacing these past couple years, i think that might have something to do with it

[@omega2279]

"A perfect game with massive flaws" Thank you, I was looking for such a perfect descriptor.

[@Yan_Alkovic]

Funnily enough, I'm not an American, I'm a Russian, but when I watched a playthrough of Revengeance for the first time a month back it resonated with me so much.... After years of going crazy about *the memes* I finally decided to give it a go and I got far more than what I bargained for. It's amazing how such a surreal, memeable game can be so _real_ and have an impact on people from different backgrounds.

[@noblegalifreyan4551]

And yet your country invades others.

[@rob98000]

Isn't that kinda the point of metal gear, it's more than just people and where they're from.

[@Yan_Alkovic]

@@rob98000 I mean, I'm only really familiar with this here game, but I'm totes pickin' up what you're throwin' down

[@nsv8613]

I guess living in a nuclear empire is a somewhat universal political experience

[@Yan_Alkovic]

@@nsv8613 Well, yeah, there _is_ that…

[@ShadowTheHedgehogCZ]

I love the small touches and parts that are never uploaded to KZbin. Like commentaries from your team members in the pause menu. They will talk about the current boss you are facing, or events in the level. I loved for example how Doktor explained why the MG Excelsius even exists, despite a giant machine like this is an absurd overkill and it's super impractical in the age of bombing and droning. It's astonishing how you can get presented this fantastical stuff, then get an explanation and be like: Wait... That actually makes sense!

[@chend2713]

it really is poetic that senator armstrong is the final boss imo. it feels like the game is really holding a mirror up to its audience, because even though armstrong is evil, they know that people will love him. maybe i'm reading into it too much, but it's like they're saying he's america's "final boss". a terrible person that is too charismatic not to be drawn to

[@AnacreonSchoolbagsJr]

Or maybe Armstrong just has a point and Jack is philosophically uncomplex and clearly wrong when their beliefs collide

[@chend2713]

@@AnacreonSchoolbagsJr uhhhhh yeah... maybe that

[@Peepshow789]

@@AnacreonSchoolbagsJr soooooo using orphan brains to make soliders is....good?

[@DrORRB-qm7fl]

@@AnacreonSchoolbagsJr His beliefs are a bizarre mix of an insistance of an exact order of the “weak” and the “strong”, freedom that only benefits those within that order who are considered “strong” and anarchical nonsense that barely fits together at all. He believes in complete freedom, but only for the very few he’s decided. His beliefs may seem cohesive at first glance due to his charisma, but they’re less and actual ideology and more an excuse for him to enact cruelty on others to his benefit. It’s a disgusting blend of fascism and the vague sense of American freedom through capitalism. Idk how that seems better than Raiden’s ideology to you, but alright then

[@dopaminecloud]

@@AnacreonSchoolbagsJr bro you fell for his speeches lmao

[@BrezelCeviche]

Some things: The aggressiveness part is 100% real; players who try to run away or catch a breath have a lot of trouble with the game, while the ones who fight right away perform well even with sudden difficulty changes. I've been saying the musical thing since I watched Hamilton. I wondered how the theatre play would look like a game and realized that it would be MGR but with the founding fathers. You are the single KZbinr that makes me buy things. First, it was Ape Out, and now it's Nebula. You can quote me when dealing with your sponsors, lol.

[@acepirosu5871]

Second this except with Before Your Eyes

[@madmorgo6233]

Tetris Effect, Venineth, Ape Out, and more... my gahd ahaha

[@hyperfixatedd]

i am deeply considering the nebula thing (even tho Dollars to Real conversion would make it very pricey for a brazilian) just because of jacob

[@larrydupp3988]

Jacob did the same for me with Ape Out and I do not regret it, that game is amazing, but a MGR style game with the founding fathers would be amazing.

[@asturias0267]

Until you get to the big mechs that like to grab you. When you have to fight three in a tight space you will experience true suffering.

[@fourkz]

8:25 funny enough, the Powerade comment is closer than you might have thought. The stuff is actually, in game, called electrolytes. This game is so insane and I love it

[@nicholaspeters9919]

Or as someone else whose name escapes me put it “The Gatorade Eucharist”.

[@axeylotl3112]

I usually never have a problem with being distracted by the videos I put on as background noise but this one completely captivated me. It almost makes me, someone who's never played anything more intense than Kirby Forgotten Land, want to go and buy the game myself

[@atarothe7456]

you should probably try it, the game can be found for 5 bucks on consoles and it takes 8 hours at most to finish it. if only for the first mission that is absolutely insane, the video can't pay hommage to how good it is

[@wallyhackenslacker]

21:26 it really drives home how absolutely insane and proud of it this game is that you have to add a "this is what the game actually sounds like" disclaimer to what is just a guy kicking another guy. That's the sort of detail that tells you the devs were having the time of their life making this game.

[@SupahTrunks7]

I keep watching that last bit over and over because I feel like Jacob answered a question I've had about WHY things get like this in our country that I've had all my life. The idea of cruelty and suffering as the most primal, animalistic aspect of freedom clicked in my mind and I can't stop thinking about it. The freedom to exert power over others the freedom to do even the immoral because kindness and morality is a limiting factor that one can be "freed" from these are the extremes that I feel have been festering in our society couched in the rhetoric of freedom. Thank you Jacob for finally letting me put words to this

[@Poldovico]

There is a saying in my country that goes "Our freedom ends where other people's begins". I believe the equivalent saying in English is "Your freedom ends where mine begins". I feel like there's something to the different way it is framed that speaks to the taking all you can perspective some adopt.

[@Poldovico]

@M I don't know if hatred can be righteous. It feels off.

[@kcatarino]

@@Poldovico bingo, freedom cannot impede another’s freedom. Criminals are “free” which is why we need law

[@SupahTrunks7]

@M I mean, I always understood that people like Armstrong need to be opposed, i just could never fully wrap my head around *why* a fellow human could be like that in the first place. It's one thing to understand the horrible effects these people are having on our society and know they should be stopped, but its another thing to be able to listen to a couple sentences and realize "oh, this is the mission statement, the root, the shift in paradigm that turns people into monsters".

[@TerryBradstreet]

@@Poldovico Hatred can be righteous, if directed properly. Jesus Christ said to love people, even as you hate their evil actions. To hate conceptual evil and active evil is righteous and encourages good actions and opposing evil, while hating people only encourages you to hurt them. Hatred for people leads you to dehumanize them and dismiss their differing viewpoint as "simply insane" is to blind yourself to their true motivations, which denies you the ability to actually change their minds.

[@dougdimmedome5552]

It’s a great example of post-irony revitalizing content, it throws all the hopelessness and stale idealism that has exemplified the beginning of the 21st century and yells at us to fucking parry it. It both makes complete fun of us and cheers us on heartily the entire ride. It managed to make a beautiful sculpture from the trash can of ideology. I don’t honestly believe this game takes itself seriously, there’s to many ridiculous lines that can in no way be misunderstandings of phrasing, they quite literally sound like punch lines. And through that incredible cynicism the game creates its own notion of sincerity.

[@MALICEM12]

They speak like mad men, but men what they say in true Japanese melodramatic fashion. No American company could have made it in this tone and it be unironic. Americans would have *had* to have made it an ironic joke. As they often do with the memes.

[@elucinadoboy4967]

I agree wholeheartedly

[@electronresonator8882]

22:35 "he claims that war will benefit the American people" I hope this time, people can finally understand that .....

[@rodrigothompson2375]

You sound like Zizek 😂

[@shane9723]

I am already eating from the trashcan all the time

[@MaxIzrin]

To quote Sseth Tzeentach: "All the stuff you thought was cool as f**k at 12, still is". Cybernetic ninjas running on missiles, and killing giant robots... This game was bound to be a hit, there was never any doubt, it was only a matter of time.

[@skeletonwizard708]

Subtext and subtetly are all well and good, but there does come a time where you desperately need to have a United States Senator piloting a trillion dollar warmachine exclusively designed to commit warcrimes and atrocities built by a complicit military industrial context while the soundtrack litterally sings at you that the "Flames of greed will burn the weak / so we'll make freedom obsolete". And that time is now, right now, exactly now is when we need that.

[@LosoaII]

Thank you for reminding me that Collective Unconscious is a wonderful boss theme for Armstrong.

[@sev1120]

And the first vocal line is literally "the unenlightened masses"

[@lolhuh6682]

@@LosoaII it's not, his actual theme is it has to be this way, CC is what he goes up against

[@LosoaII]

@@lolhuh6682 theres a very strong argument that It Has to Be this Way is more about Raiden and Sam than it is about Armstrong

[@lolhuh6682]

@@LosoaII No, it is not about sam, sam's theme is obviously the only thing l know for real, it more then amazingly describes sam's journey through the mountain of success and the scarifices it took, his humanity, his dignity, however, you can take it from both sides, raiden and armstrong.

[@vak.o]

Fun fact: “Metal Gear Excelsus” is in fact NOT a Metal Gear, however the canon reason as to why it is called a Metal Gear is because they wanted to give it a popular name so that people would understand how terrifying Excelsus is. Basically, they named it “Metal Gear Excelsus” as a way to make Excelsus seem scarier, not because it’s a Metal Gear, it never was classified as one, and was never considered as an actual Metal Gear. Source: (I MADE IT THE F*CK UP-) MGRR Codecs.

[@thadmeboy1129]

"Actually if you read the lore it is not a metal gear🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓"

[@jaredhoughton7613]

@@thadmeboy1129 It's only a "Metal Gear" if it comes from the Metal Gear region of Japan. Otherwise it's just Sparkling Mechazord.

[@thehimagedidntfitinmypfp6562]

@@thadmeboy1129 no, a metal gear should be able to launch a nuke and start a nuclear war at anytime at any location, that's literally the definition of a metal gear back in mgs3 nothing in mgrr mentioned that Excelsus could launch a nuke

[@thadmeboy1129]

@@thehimagedidntfitinmypfp6562 🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓

[@thepizzaman9159]

@@thadmeboy1129 Correct = 🤓

[@tsundae7669]

The Armstrong fight is absolutely the game’s standout moment and rightfully so but I feel like the duel with Sam is criminally overlooked. (MGR spoilers ahead I guess?) The guy beats your ass into the pavement immediately after your power fantasy showdown with RAY, and he does it so utterly that he becomes a priority target for Raiden’s salt-driven revenge quest, wanting to return the favor after he gets his robo-upgrades. Then you finally have your showdown with him just before the Armstrong fight and it’s FUCKING SICK; you can knock his sword out of his hands and instead of immediately rushing to grab it the cocky motherfucker just says to “show me a good time” before fighting you BARE-HANDED and still holding his own. Meanwhile his theme in the background perfectly encapsulates the essence of his character as a foil to Raiden, having started out as a vigilante beating down villains before getting warped by the pursuit of power. And then to top it all off, after the fight it gets revealed that this absolute unit of a rival, this guy who beat down our Metal Gear-slaying protag without breaking a sweat, had almost NO ROBOTIC ENHANCEMENTS. Aside from his arm he was just a regular-ass dude with godly skill taking on a cyborg who’s cut his way through an arsenal the size of America’s combined defense budget across the past 30 years. I don’t know if Sam is necessarily a super in-depth subject for thematic study, but I’ll be damned if his encounters with Raiden didn’t get my blood pumping just as much as the final boss. Edit: Damn, y'all have taken this discussion way further than I would have expected. I'm glad to hear that I'm not alone in finding Sam so interesting, and you've brought up some points about his character (and fight) that I hadn't ever considered prior. Keep up the thoughtful analysis homies, you're cool folks. Also I'm incredibly mad at myself for writing all of this Sam-gushing and not once even thinking to mention that HIS SHEATH IS A GUN. And he doesn't use said gun to shoot actual bullets or anything boring like that; no he uses it to SHOOT HIS SWORD OUT OF ITS HOLSTER FOR AMPED-UP IAIDO SLASHES, and if the day comes where I don't say that's the hypest shit I've ever seen just assume I've been body-snatched.

[@carlfromaccounting1112]

I wanna add 2 things: 1: When Sam loses his sword, the lyrics stop playing, because as the song says "The only thing I know for real, there will be bloodshed". The sword was the only thing he knew for real, what he defined himself by even while working for Armstrong. 2: When Raiden crushes Armstrongs heart, his arm becomes covered in Armstrong's blood. The pattern of the blood mirrors the red patterning on Sam's cybernetic arm, and could be seen as a metaphor for how Raiden has absorbed aspects (not the whole) the ideologies of both Sam and Armstrong, their memes now a part of him.

[@zekramnordran9526]

Sam fights for justice, just like Raiden, except while Raiden fights to protect the weak from evil, Sam is driven by pure hatred against the unjust, driven by revenge, Sam doesnt have anyone to protect, so basically no moral anchor besides ideals, and we see Raiden almost become like Sam, only realizing this after their duel, despite this, Sam does subtly help Raiden throughout the game, that despite working under Armstrong, his ideals still remained intact and also in the end, Raiden takes up Sam's mission to defeat the Senator and follows in his footsteps as a vigilante fighting World Marshall

[@DeusAequus]

@@zekramnordran9526 to add to your thought of Raiden embodying the ideals of Sam and taking them into himself, he literally takes up Sam's sword. Like it's one of the big moments of the Armstrong fight. Raiden needs to be willing to take on a blood red blade of violence in order to truly take on the people at the top of the heirarchy. Raiden's goal of protecting the weak beats out Sam's pursuit of pure power to enact his own justice. But Sam's blade, the core of his being the symbol of pure violence he carried with him is necessary for Raiden to enact his own ideals. You can't protect the weak without the willingness to destroy the strong who would harm them.

[@hyperfixatedd]

brazilians are just built different

[@descemet1770]

Sam is an absolute chad of a character and I’m still crushed that you have to kill him to progress the game. At least the Jetstream dlc placates me a bit

[@mokadelic4037]

I bought this game last week thanks to an amazing Steam discount. Not only the soundtrack is an absolute banger but the game is surprisingly still very good, the gameplay has stood the test of time without any doubt, and the characters are all extremely well written, especially Samuel and Armstrong, and they all have cool mechanics to them. The story is nothing exceptional but it works for this type of game (I don't know a lot about MGS lore). The only flaw is that the game is too short! Other than that, sensational experience overall. 8.5/10. MEMES, THE DNA OF THE SOUL!!

[@Imrixan]

One of the things I really like about Armstrong is how so much of who he is gets explained by the visual language of him. That is, he's a great character, but he's kind of... not great in-universe? I use 'great' deliberately here; he's obviously not a good person, but I feel like the game is kind of quietly dismissive of how grand and impressive he's supposed to be, too. He has no class, or dignity, or... grace. Learning. Mastery. Whatever you'd call it. Just overwhelming brute power, emphasis on 'brute'. He rants and raves and curses (I think he has the biggest potty mouth in the whole game, actually) with his swollen, bulging physique, and throws out such wildly overtelegraphed moves that a lot of the the time, the way he'd get me is that I'd underestimate just how long his windups are. He literally whirls his arm around to wind up a haymaker one time. It's plainly obvious that he doesn't know HOW TO FIGHT at all - even the bog-basic cyborgs with the rifles and machetes have some military grounding in their animations, and can block a few blows sometimes, but Armstrong is just hopped up on self-aggrandising bluster and Nanomachines, Son. For pity's sake, in his second phase cutscene he stomps on you as if he's a five year old throwing a temper tantrum, stamping his foot and jumping up and down like this great overgrown manchild. It's just... it's so perfect as a constant, unspoken rebuke of his whole tirade, you know? He talks a big game about exalting the individual and high ideals, but if you tune out the speech and LOOK at him for a moment he's this... snorting schoolyard bully of a man, writ large. Even Sundowner, the crudest and most callous of the Winds compared to Sam's warrior philosophy, Monsoon's intellectual posturing and Mistral's sincere belief, is still cleaner in a way than Armstrong, because Sundowner is honest about himself, bald-facedly asserting that his cruelty is the true nature of humanity. Armstrong meanwhile talks up his high ideals and the exalted nature of the strong, even as he acts like a monstrous child empowered not by talent or dedication or intelligence, but simply bouyed up by the overwhelming power of his wealth and status and entitlement. He's NOT strong, not in a way the game respects the way it does Sam's dedication to honing the martial arts, he's just rich enough to buy cutting-edge enhancements and a big warbot, and vicious enough to lash out with them.

[@psychronia]

I also wanna throw out that for all his ranting about individual strength and value, his key source of strength is from Nanomachines, Son. That is, he's only as strong as he is because a collective of billions if not trillions of supposedly insignificant little things are working together. With how unsubtle this game is, I bet he even funded it with tax money-even more collective power.

[@Imrixan]

@@psychronia Yes! And this actually makes for something of a contrast with the other Winds - Sam is the one who gets the outspoken respect for his talent and expertise, but while Mistral, Monsoon, and Sundowner are all augmented, their augmentations give them CAPABILITIES that they express their talents through. Mistral's multiple arms and polearm give her a flexible fighting style that requires she be practiced with controlling an inhuman amount of limbs, Monsoon has to control his segmented body and direct the Lorenz Force he uses to throw choppers at you, and Sundowner has a signature weapon and fighting style, as well as commanding some regular troops to boot. They all do things that require training and practice to pull off. Armstrong... doesn't. He's just big and buff and ridiculously strong, so that as clumsy as he is he still careens around like a freight train, and that makes him grand and impressive in his way, but it lacks the respectability or 'worthy opponent' factor of the others. You can have a fight with Sam or Monsoon and acknowledge that, while they're wrong about how the world works and even more wrong about how it SHOULD work, they've put in the practice and the dedication to be good at what they do. Armstrong's just a rich thug.

[@dragontear1638]

I don't have much to add to this, just a "nice one", as it eloquently phrases so well a good rebuke to both him as a character, his stated intention, and to people who jokingly or actually believe he's right, something similar could be applied - abeilt with some editing - to other villains in video game or film industries. I might say he is quite intelligent from his manipulations and getting to his position in the first place, but the sheer arrogance and indignation at times, even when he offers Sam and Raiden olive branches, somewhat marrs that. As you say, his ego is akin to a mountain that's hard to climb and beat, aside from surpassing him with the thing he understands well; brute force.

[@manuelkfc7916]

Damn this makes so much sense, i love this kind of thoughtful conclusions as it gives me different perspectives on the matter and be on besides of what i personally believe, kudos to you man.

[@alonelyperson6031]

Although he's not weak either. Remember, this is the guy that KEPT GOING even after he got his arm cut off. Whose strength in ideals completely overpowered Sam's justice to the point he completely forgot the reason why he fights in the first place. And also, he joined the navy. In the metal gear universe. He's no stranger to war itself.

[@CountSpartula]

Something i also find interesting about the conflict between Raiden and Armstrong: The game accurately represents how misunderstanding affects a situation. Raiden and Armstrong had two different meanings of 'The weak'. Raiden's is what any normal person would say, those unable to properly defend themselves from others with more ability or resources and the malice to make use of it against them. Armstrong defined the weak as the corrupt and vain figures and culture that eats away day after day at the foundations of society and the empty game they turn it into. And whats the most interesting part i find is how realistic the result of knowing this important distinct is: It doesn't matter. And it also does at the same time. It lets you understand who they are and what they're doing and to grasp something of value, but in the end it changes nothing about the here and now of Raiden versus Armstrong, fighting to the death. It wont bring either to the other's side because Armstrong has already gone past the point of no return time after time after time and he has to be brought to justice for his crimes, this is a fact to Raiden and he is more sure of his beliefs now than at any point before this. And Armstrong knows Raiden will not budge, both are completely cemented in their principles. As Armstrong's last theme says, it has to be this way. Both see the same problem, but where Raiden has limits and is more precise, Armstrong is completely blinded by wrath and takes the nuclear option that will screw everyone over because he sees it as an ends justify the means situation. In short, there are right and wrong answers to the problem and a wrong answer can be just as bad as the problem it was meant to solve, and becomes a problem in its own right.

[@Verbose_Mode]

Beautifully put. I'll also add on the absolute tragedy of self-delusion and self-betrayal that Raiden goes through, as yes, he has his principles that he is dead-set on... on the surface. He wants to be the undeniable good guy, fighting monsters. So he ignores the specks of white in the (legitimately horrible and wrong) bad guy's black. Then when he can't anymore at Sam and Monsoon's behest, he basically just goes "ok, fine, I'm a monster, but I'm a monster for the good guys." So starts the slippery slope. Finally, it gets to Armstrong, and Raiden gets Sam's Muramasa. They've traded philosophy, and Raiden... lost that exchange. He's _right,_ Raiden's definition of the weak is _objectively_ correct, his cause is just, but Armstrong is a madman with too much physical, emotional and social power in his corner for the "right thing" and "justice" to prevail. So Raiden loses, until be betrays everything says he stands for and embraces Armstrong's version of strength for the "right" reasons. Used in anger. Used in hate. Used because he just wants Armstrong to shut up and die because he hurt Raiden, made him angry, made him weak, and made his ideals invalid. That he's also protecting his version of the weak doesn't matter anymore, Raiden wins the fight but loses the battle of ideals. It's a wonderful, weird and so utterly Metal Gear tragedy.

[@scarocci7333]

Raiden hated Armstrong speech because he was a child soldier, exploited by stronger and more powerful people. He see himself as someone who was one of these "weaks" Armstrong talk about and want to wype out. But for Armstrong, Raiden managing to be a incredible cyborg fighter battling for his ideals and to his own volition mean he was one of the "strong" all along, and someone who DESERVE to be put on the top, instead of suffering in the hands of weaker people, like the assholes who used child soldiers.

[@NotPork]

As someone who's been telling everyone to play this game since 2013, I can't even begin to describe how satisfying it is seeing people finally playing it and loving it, even if it is just for the memes Now, if you're reading this, please go play Bayonetta 1 and 2

[@VerbDoesStuff]

OKAY FIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINE

[@NotPork]

@@VerbDoesStuff my mission in life has been fulfilled! The memes...I passed one...to you!

[@VerbDoesStuff]

@@NotPork wow... well, dang, now you've got a long life left to get other missions and fulfill those...

[@0uttaS1TE]

I gotta play Bayo 1 but I'm no good at spectacle fighters

[@RandomtoRandomguy]

I remember telling my friends back in 2013 that they needed to play this game, even offering to lend them my Xbox 360 copy. They all declined, saying it "it wasn't their style" or "it looks stupid". Cut to now, and every single one of them has played it and enjoyed it. This game truly aged like wine, and I love the hype that it is causing almost 10 years later.

[@Blue-gp3vn]

This is the video that got me to finally play this game, and now, after my second playthrough and hankering for a third, I have come back to rewatch this masterpiece and thank you for giving me the best gaming experience I have had since 2011.

[@Gemarald]

Memes, the DNA of the soul. The reason Metal Gear Rising: Revengance is getting more popular is because of it's message, but most importantly it delivers it fantastically. It's got a philosophy to tell and by God it will tell it through cyborg samurais until the end is near. Not only does it have incredible combat, but it's memorability and quotability is through the roof, not to mention the fact that the music is instantly recognizable and a solid snake 11/10. It's timeless, really, and i feel the reason it's getting more and more popular is because people are realizing that, and well, the memes are spreading in all sense of the word. Anyways that's just my 2 cents.

[@islandboy9381]

It's an intriguing, servicable exploration of politics/memes yet a ridicolously, cheesy action anime at the same time.

[@futuretrunksss6625]

The memes Jacob! But honestly the game is such a perfect mix of real serious dialogue,memes and good gameplay and music not to mention its easily replayable. It has something for everyone and thats why it will probably have an incredibly long legacy

[@haniyasu8236]

I've always found it incredibly amusing that the term "Meme" originated as a somewhat specific and technical term that then turned into a word meaning "haha funny pic" only to then organically morph **back** into a much more broad concept very close to its original idea.

[@iantaakalla8180]

That is pretty interesting that in 2022 memes are better disseminators and mutators of information than anything else and therefore become a pure example of just like what Dawkins described a meme is. I wonder what made said shift possible. Was it inevitable because those who created memes have grown up? Was it because memes have grown postmodern and therefore grow towards commenting about the times? Is it that the horrors of life today are far too much to ignore and we happened to be talking in Internet memes (like the microplastics meme)? Is it classical thesis(inside jokes about anime and video games)-antithesis(self-aware and spiteful memes against the popular memes of the past and levied against whomever is worth mocking)-synthesis(memes are celebrations of past treasures and also commentaries on problems)? But somehow, messing around with inside jokes made a pure classical meme.

[@sumkindacheeto]

"Sciencemen" like Dawkins set the conversation back by decades. To think that stuff that you can't even see or care about impacts you more than life as you experience it. The hubris of these mfs that talk about genes.

[@margaram78]

24:08 Every few months I rewatch this entire video just for the dopamine hit that comes from this ending punctuated with "And then you rip out his f*****g heart."

[@slicksilver2961]

Something I think that’s just as important as the theme of memes in MGR:R is another Psychological aspect of humanity: Carl Jung’s idea of the Shadow. The “unknown” darkness in human personality which is the aspect that we as humans suppress and try not to acknowledge exists. It drives what we consider our individual darkest desires. All of the main bosses in the game have realized and embraced their shadow when they joined Desperado, but the only character in the game who doesn’t until the end of the game is Raiden. All throughout it, he comes to terms with his Jack the Ripper persona. He enjoys it, but knows it’s wrong. But by the end of the game, he’s embraced it, while not losing himself. He learns how and when to “Let ‘er Rip”. And that’s the beautiful thing about it all. Remember when I said all of the bosses embraced their Shadow? They did, but as a result, they lost themselves in that Shadow in one way or another. Jung points out that the Shadow isn’t evil or bad *IF* we can ultimately, constructively acknowledge and implement its positives into our lives without it just guiding us alone. With that understanding of our Shadow and it’s implications, Raiden’s character arc in MGR:R is a profound one. While not as popular or noticeable as some of the other theme(me)s in the game I feel, from a psychological perspective, it’s just as important.

[@nullanma5134]

I absolutely love Jung’s work as a psych major particularly the Shadow concept so I appreciate the hell out of this comment

[@slicksilver2961]

@@nullanma5134 You’re a Psych Major too? LETS GOOOOOOOO!!!! Good luck with your course work homie!!!

[@CardCaptorDeadpool]

Holy shit, I love the shadow! I keep seeing ppl talk about it lately!

[@evangelionaddict8212]

And in typical MGR fashion, they really said "subtext is for cowards" and made Armstrong's dead body literally Raiden's shadow as he stands over his corpse LMAO I love it though

[@esl4287]

I'm surprised the video didn't mention It Has to Be This Way during the part about the Senator. Not only is the fight Raiden vs Zeitgeist personified, the song itself states that both of them are simply two sides of the coin. Paired with the impact of Monsoon's psychological attack breaking Raiden down, and Raiden's own justifications as he takes up Sam's sword, I feel like the game is telling us brutality will always be the path to victory: it's simply what you do once you're on top of the corpses that matters.

[@thebanditman5663]

This almost to a T. By the end of the game Raiden agrees with Armstrong's stance that the weak politicians who do what The Patriots and Armstrong did is despicable and "weak" in that it requires no use of one's own merits or skills, but rather the masses giving control over their lives through social engineering. Raiden however, is powerful enough, skilled enough, that he does not need to sink as low as Armstrong had to. Raiden does not need to practice social engineering to purge those who would practice it as Armstrong did.

[@chazdoit]

It's not mentioned because the youtuber would have to agree that Armstrong had a point in the eyes of the protagonist

[@thebanditman5663]

@@chazdoit Funny how a game series with so much nuance is often taken at face value by the masses that consume it for entertainment. It’s almost like Collective Consciousness also made a point about... Exactly that.

[@nicholaspeters9919]

Well, Jacob appears to be at a stage in his life where he’s more aggressively upset about certain things than willing to entertain the idea that stuff is a lot more complicated than everyone assumes. But then again, the real clincher is that that personal philosophy of mine might actually be blinding me to a bunch of stuff as well.

[@124085]

@@nicholaspeters9919 There's only one thing Progressives and Conservatives agree on and that's their hatred of Liberals. Both Raiden and Armstrong know that the System is complete dogshit and they're both willing to fight and die for their ideals but that's where the similarities end. Even if we pretend that Armstrong's batshit plan works and America is somehow better under total anarchy that doesn't justify the human cost. There is no situation where Raiden is willing to sacrifice children to achieve some idealized utopia. Raiden's trauma has burdened him with unimaginable blood lust and he'll do anything to make sure people don't have to go through the same torture that he went through. Armstrong might be unusually earnest for a politician but there are real-life politicians who unironically believe that stripping every social safety net is for the "good of the American people". It doesn't excuse the real harm that these people perpetuate.

[@evanburdett6546]

seriously this is one of the greatest moments of all time my favourite youtuber of all time making a video about the game i’ve sunken an ungodly amount of hours into thank you sir thank you

[@dashuntas.m4045]

I made my younger cousin play this recently, the first thing he said was it looked retro and I couldn’t stop laughing. He was hooked from the first stage

[@CagedPhoenixThe1st]

Word of mouth, can go a long way. Back when this game came out, it looked okay to me but the metal gear series never really interested me, that much. So I wasn't going to pay full price for something i wasn't sure about. Over the years I've heard nothing but great things from this game. recently i bought this game for my PS3 and I gotta say, it's in my top ten. Gameplay is great for the time, and the story really took off for me, after Jetstream sam and Raiden conversation on why they do what they do and if Raiden is dealing out justice. Also a fan: of the albeit short lived subtle & sensual moments with Mistral, the funny heart raise scene when she blew him a kiss and the comments from his friends, after he tears the tape off some risky photos. Would love to see a remake.

[@williamgeorge3111]

Why'd you buy a PS3? It's available on steam.

[@CagedPhoenixThe1st]

@@williamgeorge3111 never let mine go

[@gannielukks1811]

@@williamgeorge3111 Because yes.

[@kartonrealista]

Fuck remakes, what about a sequel? That would be some good shit

[@AFriendlyRobot]

When this game was first rebranded, I was an MGS fan and thought of it as an insult. Later when more trailers started coming out, I thought of it as a joke. I ended up playing it and thought of it as a guilty pleasure. Few years later, with some time to swallow my pride, I thought of it as maybe the best in the series. Now, and for a good while, it is clearly one of my favorite games of all time. Revengeance IS immortal.

[@Valsorayu]

It's a special feeling when a game makes you eat your biases.

[@feralroach7019]

I remember it being unliked by a lot when it came out and i never understood why, I always thought it was very fun and cool. Years later it's even more than that for me and im so glad to see it become adored by so many people

[@VSPhotfries]

I too hated this game on release. Even for a MG entry, it was far too bonkers for me, and lacked the subtlety of writing, so I thought it was trash. Now, years later, I realize that's pretty much WHY it's the best MG story - the others needed LESS subtlety, not vice versa.

[@Valsorayu]

@preternatural time to hit with that "art is subjective"

[@Anonymous-73]

This game is solid proof that a game doesn’t need multiplayer to thrive

[@JustSomeGuywithEpicGrasses]

It's called Metal Gear Solid for a reason.

[@Anonymous-73]

@@JustSomeGuywithEpicGrasses lmao

[@rootzparty3053]

This caused me pain. I didn't realize that this was something anyone thought

[@Anonymous-73]

@@rootzparty3053 EA does apparently

[@rootzparty3053]

@@Anonymous-73 I could live with that if they gave us Titanfall 3

[@56brandonray]

I remember the day I beat revengence, I had to get some type of brain scan test done the next day and my mom told me, I could not sleep all night. I played through the whole campaign that night, and my life changed forever

[@johnkramer2144]

The crazy part is this game almost didn’t happen at all. Also I love the love MGR has gotten because holy shit, this has been one of my favorite games since it’s release 9 years ago.

[@garrettcarter5622]

And this game wasn't even WRITTEN by Kojima, Platinum Games just understood the assignment well.

[@gaspachoo5046]

Kojima is just a writer, but the guys at Platinum are real showmen.

[@yoursonisold8743]

Except the folks at Kojipro did most of the writing, not Platinum's staff. Kojima was never a solo writer on MGS either, it was always a team effort.

[@Killamajigg]

Armstrong is definitely the most memorable boss fight in any video game I've played. He shows up for the last fight, and he talks a lot, but it just lets us see his motivation and real character. His motivations are almost kind of anarchist in that he wants every person to be free to fight their own wars. It's an absurd premise, but almost makes sense in the world of MGR.

[@Killamajigg]

@Aquarium Gravel That's one of the reasons I love it. His goals are downright understandable and seem like they could take place in our world, at least to a lesser extent. He even sells it with his speech about hating lawyers, bureaucrats, and the media. These are things most people would cite as an issue in America, so it makes Armstrong kind of make sense.

[@colt9836]

My favorite thing about the game is that it stimulates how Raiden experiences his life: Fast, bloody, and utterly unforgiving. And Raiden loves it, he LIVES for it. So much so that he created an entire ego, "Raiden," to ensure "Jack" (his true nature, his memes) isn't always in the driver's seat.

[@yaqubebased1961]

It's the other way around. He created "Jack" to avoid having to deal with the issues and trauma directly. After all, "Raiden" wouldn't be corrupted if he can blame it all on "Jack" wanting to "let 'er rip". But after Armstrong he finally integrates his shadow properly and becomes the hero he always wanted to be, and evermore unwavering in his values and ideals as a result.

[@colt9836]

​@@yaqubebased1961No, "Jack" is his memes, his actual personality; Raiden specifically states: "my friends, my family, they helped me forget the devil [Jack, who he is] inside. But who I kidding? I was born to kill!" "This [Jack] is my normal, my nature." Raiden is a bloodthirsty, ruthless, and violent individual; a sadomasochist, he loves to inflict pain and loves it when pain is inflicted on him. Raiden embraced his demons, enjoyed what they did to him, and now unleashes that towards less savory people.

[@yaqubebased1961]

@@colt9836 No, it's a cope to avoid dealing with the guilt and loss of purpose he feels at that moment. He wants to do what is righteous and be a hero, but it isn't until the very end of MGR when he finally understands that in order to do the stuff he actually wants to do, he must get rid of all pretensions and enact his justice the way he sees fit regardless of what the status quo is.

[@colt9836]

​@@yaqubebased1961 No, "Raiden" is a cope, there's a reason why he calls himself, "Raiden: the Lightning Transformed." I don't think you understand what the whole point of Monsoon was. The entire purpose was for Raiden to finally confront how his "protect the weak" ideology was a cover for his actual reason: his love for bloodshed and murder. Raiden is not a good person, you must understand that. He knows this, accepts it, and he targets monsters like him; so he is the "monster on your side." He's like Alucard from Hellsing. Why do you think he was desperate to stop Sundowner from creating child soldiers? Because he knows that it'll fuck them up beyond repair, it'll twist them.

[@yaqubebased1961]

@@colt9836 Him reveling and being at home in violence is not as uncommon among humans as you think. It is his intentions and means of enacting his justice upon the world that makes him heroic despite his violent nature and the fact that he most definitely struggles hard in the mental health department. Monsoon asked him questions which forced him to deal with his buried issues and gave him a reality check on what kind of world he was naively involved in and that when you aren't honest with yourself and aren't decisive in your intentions, you will either end up making things worse and/or die. At that time, The White Devil was caught way too off guard and was almost mentally disarmed by Monsoon before the fight could even begin, and so he crafted a persona out of the image some people had of him in the name of Jack the Ripper. It is 100% a makeshift persona as he never even acted like this during his child soldier days. Instead of answering Monsoon's questions truthfully and honestly, he glossed over all of them in a brutish manner in order to both intimidate his adversary and to boost his own confidence (as him listening to the goons before was too traumatizing for him and had brought his morale down, which is exactly why he isn't a full on psychopath) in order to win, which is the most important thing in any battle. The whole point of the game is that it's not the winning part of your journey that is the most important; it's what you learn from your battles and that you always remain true to what you fight for on a fundamental level. Raiden was living in a dream world being the good guy at the beginning of the game, then he goes through a sobering journey which tests him to his limits in conviction, decisiveness, honesty, and determination and at the end of it all he comes out even more confident and dedicated to being who he always wants to be; the hero. After Armstrong, he gets the confidence to follow his advice and start enacting his own justice. Independently and truthfully.