Why Does Payday 2 Have More Players Than Payday 3?

[@GeneralMcBadass]

What would it take to bring YOU back to the game? (yes, I already assumed you aren't playing it)

[@froster3255]

my pride

[@FlakFactory]

an update

[@jessejohnson8796]

Inspire and armor Regen would go a long way for me.

[@Itsjerms]

I’ll wait for a legacy collection like in Payday 2 Plus seeing how this game is not in a good state currently, its best to hold off for now

[@TrappyChein]

Nothing, I’m busy playing Hitman

[@cassidy8307]

It's actually impressive how they managed to take a few steps forward then sprint backwards after a whole decade of experience

[@Brunosky_Inc]

Never get Parkour aced

[@kalui96]

greed

[@AmonGus-hw6sp]

>They Didn't the original dev team leave in droves after the company got bought out?

[@ShutUpBubi]

That's the case for all of Modern Gaming rn, pretty much every major franchise is just a hollow shell being created by new-hires that had no hand in making those series popular or good in the first place... @@AmonGus-hw6sp

[@eyeopener1993]

Most gaming company's these days Fetch out broken games then rely on there fans/Modders to fix there games for free.

[@Slog32]

the progression system killed it for me and my friends. we were bored by level 30 because we wanted to stealth but there was no point because we would get no XP.

[@toasty1647]

Exactly the progression is a bit of a slog and personally none of the unlocks excite me enough to justify the boring challenge grind

[@GeneralMcBadass]

I have at least 3 close friends who were willing to try the game, only to skip when they heard about progression

[@kotzpenner]

This system is the most braindead thing I’ve seen. To quote AVGN: What were they thinking? It’s cool if you get extra xp for stuff. But grind should be viable and is quite fun in 2

[@TheWonkyFinger]

The progression is like PDTH witch isn't terrible but I will say i do prefer PD2 xp system better but in PD2 I never touched like 1/4 of the guns cause no need to cause the game became "you can only beat DS with this meta" got really old really quick and at least in PD3 the car-4 is useful now lol

[@colkillervin3560]

@@GiveMoneyToRandomsyour just copy pasting your comment

[@freshlymemed5680]

Payday 2 had 10 years of content under its belt sure, but Payday 3 also had 10 years to learn from everything Payday 2 got right and got wrong. As you said, it was literally right there, on a silver platter, a decade in the making and Starbreeze somehow missed it. I'll hold out hope they'll eventually turn this ship around and actually make changes for the better even if it takes a while, but until then I'll hold off.

[@Pubtomfoolery]

100%, same boat.

[@PeytonPearson]

E X A C T L Y .

[@christophercrafte]

for practically no reason payday 3 is reinventing the wheel. turning all those 10 years of prep into useless ideas. I cant understand why almost everything from 2 was taken out.

[@americantoastman7296]

@@christophercrafte You know what, you're spot on. Payday 2 was FINE, it just needed a new coat of paint, new content and some fresh twists and turns to turn the gameplay into something more modern and polished. The foundation was very good though. And for some reason it seems like they just had to rip out that as well. Why?

[@moffichu9150]

i didnt know i was going to pay to play for a day

[@Tajealos]

"How dare I expect a game to come out in a complete state?" People really out here buying a chassis with an engine on it saying "They're working on the rest of my car right now; they said it'll be done within the next four years, I'm so excited!"

[@Doazon]

Ehh, this is literally how buying a new car works these days, our XC40 was paid in January, showed up in august, had to be returned for a fix-up and got it back like end of september last year. Don't get me started on all the off the plan homes being pushed these days. At least PD3 is just $40 - imagine people buying $700k condos they'll get the keys for sometime in the next 12 - 72 months

[@SaltSpirits]

@@DoazonThis is only how buying a new car works if you’re stupid enough to buy an electric car.

[@Doazon]

@SaltSpirits No, it's not, my GR86 was 7 months. And when I was looking at a Bronco earlier this year, it was 3+ months.

[@derpderpin1568]

That's gaming for the last 10 years.

[@CyborgSelZero]

@awhellnah__ Eh, as much as I like Fromsoftware's games, they are not games you can play to wind down or relax. And I figure this to be the major turnoff for people. No one likes geting rekt over and over again in their free time.

[@righteousone8454]

As a person that played Payday 2 from 2014, what I always loved is those actual movie segment cinematics during pre-planning. Even when failing showing Dallas taking off his mask in frustration. It made the game more "expensive" and added to the feel. From Dentist showing on that blue font as the music played mysterious club tune, it pulled you in Sound + visuals, and even Diesel engine looked better after this presentation. Gameplay is always fun in Payday 2, and I own Payday 3 and I really enjoy it, but it needs a lot more content.

[@backlogbuddies]

I much prefer drill guardian to standing in magical circle at random locations. It makes sense despite being the same mechanic

[@MyUsersDark]

It's actually not, since with a drill you get to choose if you want to guard it or hold a better position, you have the freedom of positioning. With the circle you're forced to stand there

[@gerutzu575]

literally everytime i have to do that thing i ask myself "who thought this is fun...who tested this and said yea, add it to the game, and on multiple heists"

[@freshlymemed5680]

What the guy above me said. The only thing you have to worry about with drills is playing "Will. It. Jam?" with it and that come be somewhat reduced with pretty cheap skills. Standing in arbitrarily chosen circles while getting barraged by cops is no fun.

[@taigaaisaka6305]

@@gerutzu575 They stole that idea from another game, GTFO, but standing in circles make sense in that game, as the circle is to scan you to gather data, and you need to defend it as hordes of enemies come, its also a futuristic setting, kinda like Aliens. Makes 0 fkn sense in Payday 3.

[@dylangreen192]

And the crazy part is, the improved how drills work. In Gold & Sharke, the drill doesn't shut down randomly. There's a countdown to when you need to replace the O2. And if you already found the O2, you can replace it without the drill shutting down at all. Only problem is, you need to do the circle thingy to even get to that part.

[@fishcake4473]

During the beta hype phase I've heard that "The challenge-based progression system has so many common challenges that you don't need to beeline for any of them. You're just gonna have all the content unlocked without even needing to tab to the challenge tab." Guess that aged well

[@RPbirdzz]

Gee, a challenge-based progression system fucking up the enjoyment of a game sounds awfully familiar

[@David-ic1wz]

yeah I guess they said fuck it and added the 150 heists loud and silent on top of everything else

[@Utter_Disc]

​@RPbirdzz reminds me of halo infinite hmmmm

[@Shadowhawkdark]

I remember an old World of Warcraft talk about how "originally" the game had the "rested" xp, but in reverse. While 'rested' you would have 100% xp, but when your 'rested' ran out you had a reduced xp gain. They found that people absolutely hated the system and felt like it punished them for playing the game. Instead, they just reversed the order of things, and made it so rested "gave" bonus xp, and people were happy with the system. I don't know/remember if they also tweaked the xp gain or whatever to reflect this, but the point stands, "giving" makes players happy, "taking" makes players very annoyed, even if the overall result is 'relatively' the same.

[@kidkamando]

I don't remember the exact numbers, but basically, you had 100% XP until you did X number of things, whereupon you'd have 60% XP for the rest of the day. Instead, they flipped it, so you'd get 140% XP until you did X number of things, whereupon you'd have 100% XP for the rest of the day. They adjusted the XP numbers so it was literally the same on both sides. Who knew that people liked getting rewarded and hated getting punished.

[@JeffTheKiller000]

ff14 has this system as well

[@Shadowhawkdark]

@@JeffTheKiller000 The point wasn't whether or not a game had a rested system, but rather the fact that they originally had it "taking" xp and people were pissed, but turned it into "giving" xp, and people became happy with the system.

[@lukkkasz323]

@@kidkamando 60% isn't the opposite of 140%

[@kidkamando]

​@@lukkkasz323 1. I was providing example numbers 2. 140% is the complement of 60%. That's a differential of +/-40%. 10 minutes of 140% with 50 minutes of 100% (Design A) is the same as 10 minutes of 100% with 50 minutes of 60% (Design B) if the 100% A = 60% B.

[@lolcoltyn9816]

I played a majority of Payday 2 without dlc and still found it way more fun than Payday 3. I'm level 41 on Payday 3 and the the only reason I'm that high is because I really wanted the sniper and that was it. Grinded out random boring challenges. I miss the many different melee weapons. Also, the circle objective thing when hacking is the dumbest thing in the game it takes so damn long when solo.

[@lolcoltyn9816]

This video also made redownload Payday 2. Thank you, I should've done it sooner.

[@meat.]

damn I can’t imagine my motivation for reaching level 42 being using the sniper overkill weapon lol… (my motivation to hit 82 was the gold paint)

[@fairnut6418]

I remember watching some video about game design and what stuck with me is “don’t punish players for doing what they want, rather reward them for doing what you suggest”.

[@bunk95]

Its not a game, games are fictional.

[@august101wheatley8]

I love how you frame the title like it wasn't obvious

[@GeneralMcBadass]

what keeping up with youtube algorithms does to a man

[@itsmebutwhoami8177]

i feel you brother social media did this to us. I wish we could create content on the internet as we liked and not having to take in mind if they're gonna push it or not jesus that algorithm is just straight up criminal. thanks to it we live in a world of desinformation and clickbaits that lead to devs making games this bad expecting it'll just work like everything else does, they have to take in mind we are a little bit older though.. @@GeneralMcBadass

[@von...]

@@GeneralMcBadass hey it worked, you got me (a normie who has maybe 20 hours in payday 2 who hasn't bought/played 3) to watch.

[@RusticRonnie]

As someone who doesn’t play payday I was actually surprised to heat this. The reviews were high

[@PD_CĪPHĒR]

@@GeneralMcBadass 0/10 no subway surfers gameplay

[@RematodeRanger]

Payday 3 tried to meet payday 2's replayability by forcing your hand with insane challenges, like play a heist 100+ times. There arent enough heists to make doing this fun.

[@kobban63]

This is the level of some stuff in TF2 like the win 142 times on X map

[@Kleyguerth]

The worst part is that PD:TH had the same kind of challenges, but they were bonuses on top of the regular exp you got by completing objectives and heists... Even PD:TH had a better system!

[@TrickyJebus]

its not number of heist. but quality of heist you dummy

[@raisephoenix]

As a launch day player of both Payday 2 and Payday 3 I can safely say, I enjoyed Payday 2 on launch way more. Sure the game was grindy with heists giving no xp but it didn’t force me to play with certain guns, equipment, or certain heists. Even back then the skills felt better like being able to take 4 pagers instead of 2. I hate when people say PD2 had 10 years to improve because in my opinion, launch Payday 2 was still better.

[@welkingunther4298]

pd2 early maps were buttcheeks. I had way more fun playing pd3. It's in a horrible state, but I'm not going to sugarcoat pd2 launch. None of the launch heists were exciting and a lot of them were repeats (ukranian job, jewel store, mallcrashers, 4 stores).

[@chodagreat7876]

You cant deny the fact that Payday2 was unplayable at launch.... It took them 2 months to make Payday2 playable and not crash.

[@Authien]

@@welkingunther4298 people that say this are just wrong. Bank heist became a iconic heist in payday and was the perfect beginner heist. I would rather play every bank heist including deposit than ANY of the payday 3 maps. Nightclub was another great heist and so was big oil, framing frame and rats. All being completely different and replay-able. Playing big oil and framing frame over and over to stealth it alone became a huge reason I enjoyed and became a payday fan. Playing this game makes me hate where it has gone and i hope after waiting a year it will be better

[@kiranearitachi]

​@@chodagreat7876I had no issues I'm pretty sure

[@kiranearitachi]

Agreed

[@TheAngelHavoc]

The biggest killer for me is the lack of any kind of quick-play option. I don't care what heist I play, I don't care what difficulty it is, I just want to play a game with other human players - and with this current matchmaking system, at least as an Australian, it's impossible to find anyone to play with within the game. At least B4B had that.

[@altmindo]

how hard have the devs failed if people are comparing it ti b4b... negatively.

[@yol_n]

Payday 2 doesn't exactly have quickplay it does however have a very serviceable game selector that can put you in the action very quick

[@molassesman4066]

​@awhellnah__ its not the vpn its that hes had issues connecting to non australians hes on a prison island

[@Revan384]

As much as they frustrated me, I really miss the challenge of the heists were stealth is a must and you fail when detected. I admit that I'm not the best at playing the Payday games, but the heists in Payday 2 where you needed to do stealth actively made me want to improve. Payday 3 just feels like the intro of that one RussianBadger video "Hey, are we going loud or keeping it quiet? Actually, don't answer that."

[@dojelnotmyrealname4018]

Honestly I kinda dislike playing games like these online for that reason. Loud is almost always the default, and even if they go quiet it usually is pseudoloud where it's quiet by they speedrun it down within the timeframe of 8 ECM's.

[@Dragnuav]

It's the busted progression system for me. I don't want to just sit and grind the same heist over 300 times to get a level up. Doing it 150 in loud and 150 in stealth is insane and they really need to fix these issues or the game is going to remain low player count for the forseeable future.

[@sethnewlin510]

Crazy that the new progression system was ostensibly added to encourage variety but has challenges like this. Game dev executives finding out that the more time players spend playing a game the more likely they are to spend money on additional content for that game is one of the worst things to happen to the industry, maybe the single worst. They're too shortsighted and profit focused to realize that players that spend a lot of time on a game spend more money on that game because it's a good game and the number of hours they play is simply a consequence of the fact that they're having fun. They just immediately assumed correlation=causation and if they made their games into unfun grinds that required hundreds of hours to progress through people would throw money at them.

[@_Ekaros]

Those numbers sound just stupid... Like I do have 450 hours in Payday 2... So just those would take a good chunk from that. And that is single heist...

[@NMbass906]

I think this is an Anthem situation. I don't think there's a lot of development time on this. The copy pasted UIs and so much outsourcing and AI generated content seems to point to this too. I think this was slapped together at the last minute to meet a release deadline. Be honest. The core playerbase is on Steam. Gamepass players tried it once and uninstalled, since that's what gamepass is there for. Console numbers are definitely low, there's no way people trust Starbreeze are gonna keep this updated and not pull a repeat of Payday 2. The sheer number of empty lobbies points to this. "But Payday 2 had 10 years" yeah and Starbreeze should have learned things in those ten years. They should have improved. Why are people judging a 2023 release on 2013's standards? It wasn't a good release in 2013 either. It's an absolutely brainless take imo. Additionally I think they're straight up lying. They're not considering offline mode, and I don't think they're working on much of a change to progression either. I think they're going to polish the shit out of this turd whenever the patch eventually lands and it's gonna be mostly bug fixes and crap like "fixed collision on a locker on x level" 35 times and not adding in core features that are desperately needed. Skills are really out of whack too. They're so badly balanced it's like they just came up with ideas over the course of a weekend and went with it. It's such a haphazard system. Playing around the three buffs feels like I'm running around like a chicken with my head cut off and not like a calculated killing machine with reliable skills from the tree or decks. All of the character models are super bad. The contractor portraits are AI tier bad. The cutscenes are terrible and all the voice lines are robotic as hell. My man Gustavo killed it with the soundtrack in my opinion but that's gonna be subjective of course. For real I don't think there's much hope here. I think it could be done, but probably not by Starbreeze, and probably not with Starbreeze's budget. There's too much missing, and their communication is way too shitty. They haven't said a word since apologizing for their shitty communication. What the fuck lol. As always, great vid Gen!

[@GeneralMcBadass]

oh god, Anthem. Man, what COULD have been . . .

[@AdrianOkay]

the current payday 3 lead and devs aren't the ones that made payday 2 great in the first place, they are mostly riding the hype of a game that used to be great because the devs played their own game. I wouldn't be surprised if they unironically think that they are doing their best and that the game is going in the right direction, but i'm sure most of the current people there haven't really played payday 3 at all, and i really doubt many of them are capable of soloing any deathwish mission in payday 2 so they probably don't even know how to theorycraft builds so they don't understand how to make a skill tree that has any depth into it and skills that synergize with each other and neither a gameplay loop that's enjoyable since they probably give themselves max infamy from the start and have never needed to grind exp

[@meat.]

@@AdrianOkaythe sad reality of sequels for games nowadays. Same thing with with those guys who attempted to make another L4D (back for blood). Utter garbage attempt at Valve’s masterpiece. Another great example is Overwatch…

[@splashlemon2966]

for a bit of a soulless game i agree with you on the music. It feels like Gustavo poured his heart and SOUL into the ost. respect.

[@NMbass906]

@@splashlemon2966 For sure. Gustavo doesn't miss imo

[@SneefyQuaffles]

This is a problem a game called 7 Days To Die has >a small portion of the player base will exploit the game >devs will change the game completely to fix this exploit >Legitimate play styles get affected by this and the majority of the player base is forced to learn the meta. >the small portion finds another exploit anyway My incentive for playing other heists is that other heists are fun. You don't need to force people to have fun if your game is fun, it comes across as insecure even if its implemented correctly.

[@2l0t0k8]

Even 'better', for 7D2D, it commonly isn't actually an exploit, but just a "I don't like you doing that". Couple that with them rewriting game systems from the ground up continuously, and it's no wonder it's still stuck in Alpha without substantial meat on the bones.

[@EpicMiniMeatwad]

@@2l0t0k8 Wtf that game still exists and gets updates? Wow. Last time I played it was 7 years ago.

[@MomsRavioli]

Ah yes, the development hell of 7DTD. Played it since the start and stopped Around Alpha 12-13. It was obvious they would keep reinventing the wheel over and over again.... The lead developer/owner is a delusional muppet that self-inserts himself everywhere and feels the need to scrap everything, because of a fever dream he had. He single handedly destroyed the game.

[@steeljawX]

@@EpicMiniMeatwad That's the wrong question to be asking there. The right question would be, "Has it left alpha yet?" The answer to that is no. It's currently in alpha 21.6. I've been trying it out (I started around Alpha 16, and I'll say they changed a bit of their progression. But it's still alpha. On one hand, it's good it hasn't been dropped and it's still being "worked toward release", whatever eon that may be, but having a game in alpha for 10 years trying to "perfect" it. There's some point where you've got to realize you've done enough with one aspect and that you're just polishing a turd at that point, and 7D2D has had a decade of turd polishing.

[@killerkitten7534]

@@EpicMiniMeatwadI bought the game back in 2017, I launched it recently and it didn’t change virtually at all. I feel so ripped off as an Xbox player, but honestly the PC version doesn’t seem to be faring too well either so I wouldn’t be surprised if the devs are just cold quitting the game so to speak

[@HondoHoss77]

Simple answer: The game devs CARED about their product with PD2. They just released PD3 because the suits saw the loyal, dedicated community of Payday fans and thought; “yeah, we can exploit those losers for $60…”

[@punishedbung4902]

On a fundamental level, a heist game where the player is incentivized to not steal heist objectives and instead focus on arbitrary objectives fails as a heist game. They took battle pass objectives and said “yeah, that’s better than progressing by playing the game.”

[@nickolasridgeway2816]

As a solo stealth player for over 10 years of payday 2 in the month or however long it’s been since payday 3 has been out I’ve completed 1 mission solo every other mission is either to complex or requires more than one person. Payday 3 doesn’t feel like payday to me it feels like a first person game that forces me to play with random players instead of just sitting back and trying to see how I can play different maps.

[@steeljawX]

It's kind of disgusting because they low key already foreshadowed that. Think back when they did the "true ending" where you had to complete so many specific challenges before you could even attempt to get the true ending. I never got it because one of the challenges I never got done was the one you needed to have all 4 heisters jump off the plane by a certain time on Birth of Sky. That was 4 heisters and not 1 heister and 3 AI. You cannot do that one solo. Never got my friends to do it and couldn't trust randos to play along. So they basically took the, "Players loved the True Ending so they're okay with force multiplayer challenges." and really made that the basis for progression.

[@Virtualsinner]

I recommend Red archer's latest video. This guy defended the game the most and is completely stopping payday content at this point.

[@GeneralMcBadass]

honestly that's bold and I commend him for it

[@kinghyperheart1571]

Yeah, Starbreeze MUST know they royally screwed the pooch when even their most positive defender of the Payday IP is sick of their shit.

[@Stygian_blackwitch]

bro was a meat rider but i respect his decision

[@alostbaron781]

Yep. I pointed it out months ago that Payday 3's beta WAS basically the whole game and he got very defensive for Starbreeze. It feels good to know I was right not to trust modern devs but at the same time it sucks that we couldn't just get a good game.

[@sirisaac6225]

@@Stygian_blackwitchHow was he a meat rider for calling out their BS? He was always critical

[@loganh.1983]

The thing that stops me from playing payday 3 more is the progression. I don’t want to do the challenges cause that’s not how I want to play. If they simply added XP for completing a heist id play a bit more.

[@monstergto250]

Possible reason why it was changed is cause people wanna be lazy and farm xp for doing practically nothing Blame people for farming payday 2 bank heist on the hardest difficulty with easy wins for killing 4 guards and no real effort made or people who did the jewelry store rush or even the ATM 4 stores speedrun for easy cash and xp

[@grimjudgment6527]

​@@monstergto250People will always attempt to optimize the fun out of the game. People did similar shit in PD:TH too, and that game also had a challenge system. Seeing as how I physically cannot level up any more unless I intentionally farm challenges with weapons I don't like using with perk builds I don't like using isn't a fix for the progression system. That's just making the game worse and blaming people that never harmed the community. People that optimized PD2 to speed run progression were at least able to have some competitive fun trying to speed run. This shit? This shit in PD3 is embarrassing. We're not the Payday gang, we're the 99 boxes breakdancing crew and the Bathroom Bandits.

[@Zonic3451]

@@monstergto250Oh no, how dare people want to.. get to the point where they have their abilities unlocked and can have the full experience the devs intended for max level players..

[@monstergto250]

@@Zonic3451 How dare people not enjoy a game and take their time instead of getting max level in 1 heist like in payday 2 and then cry there's no content or pretend they're vets cause they're max level yet have 0 understanding of mechanics of the game and how the heist works. You guys act like such babies over a video game cause you cant do 1 heist without crutches all day like you guys did in payday 2 or get easy xp for stealing a few bags in a heist. Even in payday 2, there was people who didnt even know how to do big oil day 2 correctly, and when you look at their stats, they only had a few hours of game time for high levels, gee wonder why Oh I know, they spend all day farming xp on easy mode. There was already level 60s on day 1, and people platinuming the game trophies on day 1. Enjoy the game or go back to payday 2 with all the crutches from years of content. I've never seen so many people cry over not getting easy xp for stealthing 1 job all day as much as the people who cried about 4 stores getting their atms removed as a nerf in payday 2.

[@SuperAdventureR1301]

@@monstergto250 Stop defending scummy companies, you corporate bootlicker. It's a terrible progression system and you know it. Playing payday loud, is just another generic FPS like the hundreds of others out there. Stealthing missions is where the game shines, and we aren't allowed to do that anymore because they've eliminated choice entirely.

[@UrbanGttaM]

As of commenting now Payday 2 has - 26,966 current players with a peak of 35,829 in the last 24 hours Payday 3 has - 264 current players with a peak of 328 in the last 24 hours. Crazy numbers

[@RedshirtAfficionado]

Payday 3 has less players for a big number of reasons: 1: No in-game lobby system, online only. The game is online only, not only that but it doesn't allow you to host your own lobbies, which means that no proper modding will be possible without being marked as a cheater. You can't replay the same mission with the group that you just played with, only go back to menu and hope to re-add them if they're not already your friends. it also makes queuing up with teammates really annoying and tedious. This is only the *second* biggest flaw rn. 1A) Unable to find any players in matches. The matchmaking system is just not working as intended right now. I'm constantly put into lobbies with one person, that one person will often times just leave instantly, and then I won't see another soul for the duration of the heist, and end up playing it through solo. I have found maybe 3 full lobbies since the launch of the game in 10 hours of play. 2: Progression. The level system is just fucking bad. The way levels are gated through challenges is so grindy and tedious, and discourages you from playing how YOU want to play. The idea was obviously to stop people from grinding on cook-off for 8 hours (or the equivalent), but it's actually made the game way more grindy and frustrating as a result. I got to level 12 before I just went "F*** this I'm done" and dropped the game. 3: The promise of the return of weapon DLCs. This one's probably a personal problem, but the return of weapon packs was a *huge* red flag for me. They absolutely ruined Payday 2's game balance for a few years shy of a decade before the Ultimate Edition was conceived. I remember lobbies having DLC checkers to warn the host if a player was playing vanilla, so that the host could kick the player, or worse, auto-kicking the players without input from the host at all. I don't want to see that return in any capacity. This is not even including the fact that for the first week of the game's life I couldn't even *log in* to play the bloody video game. Sadly, there is no place for me in Payday anymore. Payday 2's dynasty-warrior style of enemy flooding is not something I find enjoyable, and haven't enjoyed the game since the difficulty rework that put us here, and I cannot stand grinding through Payday 3 enough to actually play it.

[@johnnygreen37]

another point to take in consideration is that the Payday 2 had regional pricing... for a lot of people around the globe paying even $40 on a basic game is not viable. this kind of stuff really have a huge impact on sales

[@benjathje0]

Yeah, the game is very expensive here in Argentina. Not the most expensive but for sure a tough pill to swallow

[@rangergaming9245]

And $40 is still a rip off for a game that feels like its still in early access currently. i feel bad for anyone that didnt get the game through xbox game pass (if its even on it) or have it gifted to them.

[@muffy_bunny]

​@@benjathje0I used gamepass to try it out, played it at most 4 times and uninstalled, using gamepass for better games I never played now

[@excalibro8365]

Ah yes fellow 3rd world gang

[@GangsterFrankensteinComputer]

I got Payday 2 for £1. Played it for about 30 minutes in VR, I hated it lol.

[@TheMalevolentSpoon]

I was originally gonna (suffer) play through Payday 3, but on a whim decided to go check something on Payday 2, only to find my 400+ hour old save data corrupted and wiped. At first, of course, I was quite upset. But since then I've taken the fresh start to play the game again in ways I didn't do before, since at the time my then-girlfriend was shotgunning me through, bless her.

[@MyUsersDark]

Damn I'm sorry to hear that. Glad to hear you've still had fun despite that though

[@DorkyNico]

What’s ur ex’s @

[@Rainbow51000]

​@@DorkyNico bro you don't do that plus you didn't understood

[@desko2041]

@@DorkyNico…What.

[@localsnek]

@@DorkyNico hell naw bruh people are down bad in the silly clown mask game community

[@Hecksun]

The always-online is a dealbreaker. And if it weren't, then the whole Challenges=Progression is a game killer. Can't believe you can complete entire heists and make zero progress because you didn't complete some semi-arbitrary challenge, it goes against the entire series ethos.

[@maboilaurence8227]

You know when people say "Yo I'll just wait for the game to get good once it's out of early access" That's exactly what happened and I love that.

[@basedlibertyprime]

Other games have had similar xp systems for their battle passes and everyone hated it, I can’t believe they thought it would be a good idea.

[@MsQueenOfDance]

I really wanted payday 3 to take the Deep Rock Galactic route. To be a fun, 4 player, coop mission shooter with a good progression system and a clean start that I could approach. I have payday 2, but I don't really know how to play it, so I was interested in playing payday 3. When the game launched and the servers were falling apart, I figured id just wait a bit. When the real reviews came out talking about how horrible the progression was and the heists were bland, I just decided to steer clear. I'm still willing to play the game one day, but only if it becomes a better game. I've got plently of other games I can play.

[@antynomity]

Stop meatriding drg, their progression system is much worse than pd3, because here you can at least grind it out, and in drg you're time gated out of the most interesting thing.

[@desko2041]

⁠@@antynomityDRG is so good tho, and I mean yeah it takes time to get those OC’s and such but I didn’t mind it as I simply enjoyed the game and putting together builds

[@themonoloco8245]

​@@antynomitystill a better game keep coping

[@FateBringsMe2U]

@@antynomityKeep coping clown boy

[@hiddewolters759]

@@antynomityif you don’t rock and stone, you ain’t coming home!

[@AsianGordon]

Honestly what does it for me is that we're still in the "launch Phase" You'd think the wounds of the launch fiasco would start to heal by now but they still haven't launched a "day 1 patch" or similar a month in and it reflects on the game's outlook. You gotta stop the bleeding for the wound to start to heal y'know? The way I see it, Launch PD3 is a blank slate for them to iterate on. But if the updates are going to be of similar quality to this launch, there isn't much hope great video gen

[@Nitecookie]

honestly, even if payday 3 was a masterpiece, nothing can beat the nostalgia factor of payday 2. i started in 2021 (probably the best year of my life) and got a solid 500 hours on the game. Since i had such good experiences at the same time as when i was playing payday 2, i always associate them with it when i play it. Nothing can rip me from this game. it's just too good.

[@blokin5039]

It's mediocre at best.

[@sjfs231]

@@blokin5039 nah 2 is pretty good, not a masterpiece, but pretty good

[@playfast321]

I'm a long time PD2 player and I was really hyped for 3 but just the progression system was a reason for me not buying the game. I don't really care about always online, but I do care about having to grind challenges because the old skill system was what set payday apart from the other co-op shooters.

[@ampa-3612]

The funniest thing about trying to prevent people from speedrunning a single heist over and over again with the challenge system, is that they added challenges to complete the heists a certain number of times INDIVIDUALLY FOR BOTH STEALTH AND LOUD, *DEFEATING THE POINT OF CHALLENGES.*

[@SimplyJustAndy]

there seems to be a depressing trend for big game companies to not put as much effort when making games anymore. I still remember the chills i got when we were introduced to the dentist heists. The only way to fix this i think is to simply not play the game. Show that you can't make a game half-heartedly, and expect the consumers to just eat whatever is in front of them on the table. EA started it all, now Epic Games have followed, and now Overkill(?). I sincerely hope I'm wrong with this statement, because Payday 2 alone is legendary status. Honestly, maybe just rebrand payday 2 towards their new engine, and scrap payday 3 entirely?

[@chibisayori20]

I hope Rockstar doesn't do the same with GTA 6 not i worry about that, since RDR2 was great but still hope they don't plan to release half-baked game and follow this shit trend. Also i think scraping payday 3 might not be necessary or if it is, just update payday 3 and rebranded as payday 2: unreal edition that way people don't have to feel ripped off. (or i guess release pd2 unreal edition as standalone but give payday 3 AND payday 2 owners the game for free or even just make it F2P, that way you can even add microtransactions and stuff like that without people being mad about it)

[@meat.]

game devs used to be actual gamers who would ask “what would be fun?” when making their games. now it’s just liberals who wanna become game devs in college because “it seems fun”. Games aren’t about gamers anymore they’re about safely making money

[@bonfist7277]

@@chibisayori20 I can assure you now, GTA 6 is gonna be the furthest thing from a GTA game, even if it isn’t necessarily a bad game

[@chibisayori20]

@@bonfist7277 it's gonna be open world, has cars and you can commit crime, it's a GTA game. Can you elaborate a bit more on this topic? Because i am confused, it's not like they can change the entire core game mechanics of GTA to be something else entirely (minus GTA Online, but that's just a mode for GTA V)

[@absolution6191]

You can blame Deepsilver for such a dogshit launch.

[@KyryloMudrokha]

Payday 3 is losing players, Almir, increase Joy's butt size by 20%.

[@Sonatherogue]

What got me hooked in payday 2 was going for the Overkill and then Deathwish masks. I was disappointed when I saw such little reward for challenges in Payday 3, just experience points.

[@drmarikfox2583]

I haven’t heard anyone talk about the worst part for me, the rng randomization feels shit. Stealthing the night club I would see a few things change but it Not once affected the line we took through the place or how we tackled it. Biggest change was maybe having to wait a handful of seconds for two sight-lines to stop intersecting.

[@drathonix9930]

I haven't even purchased the game because of the lack of singleplayer and the genuinely horrible challenge system. Payday 2 at least has its stuff together. I'll buy 3 when the devs figure out how to fix it.

[@cosmicisdumb]

When payday 3 was announced, I was so hyped. As much as I like payday 2 I did believe there were a few systems that were a bit underdeveloped, the melee system and pre-planning to name a few. Not that these systems were bad, but pre-planning was only on a handful of heists and didn't really change the heist in a meaningful way on most of the heists that had it. And the melee system was just kinda there, you would normally just pick the highest dps weapon for loud or nothing for stealth. But when I heard about a sequel I was so hyped since I was hoping these mechanics would be improved. But when the game launched, most of the things I think could be improved just got removed. And most of the things I did actually like also got removed. Payday 3 really just feels like an average shooter instead of a bank robbing sim now.

[@ivandagiant]

Literally! Concealment was removed, pre-planning, no crime spree/multi-day heists... Such a regression, one step forward 2 steps back

[@BDaltonYoung]

I wouldn't say pre-planning was bad just because it "didn't really change the heist in a meaningful way", I would say it was more bad because in many heists only one combo was workable. Bomb: Forest is played 99 times out of 100 with helicopter escape. Bomb: dockyard is played 99 times out of 100 with boat escape. So the stuff changes the heist a ton (so much so that playing without it becomes horrid).

[@MemeAlchemist]

Everything you said about it not only being about the lack of content but the design of the reward system is so accurate. If you’re going to make a game like this, you better front load it with a TON of content to keep people busy. They didn’t make it rewarding and they also didn’t give it a decent amount of content. Not looking good boys.

[@xander556]

Seeing the developers stream and then the stubbornness of them about not changing the progression system really killed it for me personally. Just no interest in continuing with a game where the developers weren’t really listening to players idk

[@legit6353]

normal people - create a solution to solve the problem greedy people - create a problem to sell the solution starbreeze - remove a solution and create a problem

[@hamburguesaconpapas124]

dude you just need to be patient, like dude you just only have to wait 10 years and spend 172 bucks on shitty dlc so the game gets "Good"

[@GeneralMcBadass]

[@arcangelbeats1640]

Overkill: Have some faith Arthur we just need some MUNEH

[@arthurlohan9260]

"I am going back to payday 2" was my review after having suffered through all 8 of the payday 3 heists. Uninstalled and went back to cooking and gunning in payday 2.

[@harrisbrown6800]

Hopefully refunded

[@stuartmartin2085]

Seen a lot of comments say this but felt like chiming in. Progression sucks beyond belief. Not even just how grindy it is but the fact that you can go through multiple heists without getting any rewards outside of a few hundred thousand dollars just makes the player really unmotivated to continue the gameplay loop. Theres really little incentive in the game to keep going for me personally. The heist level design, stealth mechanics and combat are really good they really just have to make the game worth your time playing and i think it will recover.

[@stuartmartin2085]

Also fuck that stupid security system circle objective on certain stealth heists that shit is ass

[@meat.]

I preferred payday 2’s guards for the most part. It was almost kind of realistically cool how you’d get IMMEDIATELY lit tf up after getting detected. They would just unload their whole mag, they were not playing around. In pd3 you can crouch past literally right under a guard’s nose and not get caught. In pd2 you couldn’t even stand too close behind them because they would feel your presence. Pd3 stealth is a meme. I understand that in “private” areas they can escort you, but I do miss the whole mini mechanics of properly dominating guards to properly kill them in stealth/shotgun blast the body away, or else the next guard immediately shoots at you upon detection

[@ハーフ-r1m]

I just think Payday 3 needs more heists and a revamp to progression. Everything about the general gunplay and whatnot is something I much prefer over Payday 2. They just gotta remove the stupid challenge system, and get more content variety into the game. Maybe milk out payday 2 a little while longer to get the money.

[@samstits8982]

I can’t get over the UI change. I’m obsessed with colors and the dark color grading of payday 2 have this gritty feeling, dark blue UI is just better than a light green one. The music got so much less exciting.

[@33Alexx]

I totally agree with this video. I've recently downloaded PD2 again and what I really love about this game is... I CAN do whatever I WANT. I can repeat my favorite stealth missions over and over and over. I can speedrun the infamy if I please so. I can play the game however I want.

[@JustAGuy-iv5vg]

online only requirement killed any desire i had to purchase it. And that's the least of the game's problems

[@linksfueszigerdog]

Through you switching between footage of PD2 and 3 I just realized how stressed I am every time I see anything about Payday 3 since I always have the feeling that I have to complete this challenge or do this exact thing to progress in the game. Seeing that Payday 2 footages feels like home. I want the third one to be good and not just another casualty of modern contract controlled gaming.

[@hazmat_ducky3136]

It feels funny seeing how this is all progressing. I started playing Payday 2 back in July, so I am like coming in waaaaaaayyy after what I assume is the peak of payday 2. And to me, I was really satisfied with the game. And so I wanted to see how Payday 3 would be. But in the state of modern gaming and because of my wallet, I figured I’d wait a bit and get PD3 well after it’s release. After all, I’m patient. And well… now I’m not sure if I’ll buy the game anytime soon. I can definitely see it recovering later on and becoming decent, but as of right now? No shot. At least Payday 2 still slaps and, I imagine, will always slap.

[@steeljawX]

Well it slaps because you have control on how it goes. Yes there are heists that are strictly stealth or forced loud, but running in shrieking while wielding a long bow, great sword, and harnessing your inner Mad Jack Churchill; totally acceptable for PayDay 2. You want to be TF2's the Pyro, Engineer, or Heavy? Absolutely possible. Smack a fool with a stack of bills for not listening to you, again 100% within your reach of the game. PD3 just seems to have taken the gritty serious turn and is very "financially" focused as far as the publisher and devs go. They're in it for the money and not for the content.

[@shalala4571]

The sole reason i play PD3 is because it’s on xbox game pass. I’d never pay full price for it. It’s fun but gets old quickly

[@hazmat_ducky3136]

@@shalala4571based.

[@macacooracao6904]

what made me play payday 2 was the variety of content and possibilities together with the possibility of customizing weapons, skills and card decks and creating different builds, thats it

[@mark-gj4mb]

the problem with the live service argument is that I don't want to play a game that's great in 2 years, I want to play a good game now that I spent $40 on. Buying a game isn't an investment, I want a good experience that I paid for now. Why at any point would I choose to play the clunky unfinished Payday 3 when I could just go and play the complete and incredibly fun Payday 2?

[@TabbuEme]

I think the funniest thing for me was the fact that they wanted their progression system to be challenge-based in order to make sure people don't farm one heist forever to max out, and now people are farming the same heist that lets you pop heads the best, making the system challenge-cringe. Half the fun of farming a heist in stealth is optimizing it and finding new ways to do it faster, yet they didn't really think of that in the challenges. They added the Overkill weapons, ONLY TWOOOOOOO TO CHOOSE FROM AND ONE OF THEM IS TERRIBLEE They added a cool customization system with TOO LITTLE CHOICESSS FOR MASSKKKKS ONLY 8 HEISTS (THAT HAVE SIMILAR OR IDENTICAL OBJECTIVESS)

[@Revan384]

"We don't want people farming just one heist to max out their progression." "Hey, let's make all of the heists practically identical to one another."

[@jortand]

I absolutely love specifically the gun play in Payday 3 and that's the major thing why I am still playing it, standing in circles is not fun like at all but I don't think the heists is a problem for the game as most of them are fine. the thing about payday 3 that makes me mad is just everything around it is so MEH and at times half-assed, the UI is rubbish and is obviously just a copy pasted "how to make a UI for console" half the things in it are broken and don't work optimally. One of my major pet peeve is the lobby system, you can't talk with the lobby you are about to join and plan out things like "oh we are going to stealth this" or banter with players before and after the heist like in payday 2. The party system has a 50 /50 chance of erroring out every time a heist ends, so the host has to restart their game to fix the party and there is no real opportunity to talk with the randoms that you do heists with, there is no easy way to add and/or talk to the randoms that you just beat Touch the Sky Overkill with and might want to play another heist with, nothing is optimized for quality of life, the challenges don't even update without a game restart. Also my computer is about to explode every time I even think about playing this game. I hope to god the update that we have been promised addresses most of these first things, as if it isn't I might join the thousands of players to put down Payday 3 I actually mostly agree with you on the progression other than I actually don't mind it as much as other players I find it surprisingly fun to try out all the weapons and can see the reason why Overkill went with it, but as you describe it didn't fix any of the issues that Overkill was trying to fix and mostly just shifted it towards a system that payday players aren't used to with it alienating people that don't want to try all the guns and heists and makes it harder to see your progress over time again going back to the awful UI. I have no real idea how to fix it maybe just removing the current system and replacing it with the payday 2 system or a hybrid system? I have no idea, but if Overkill wants to see Payday 3 get the player base of Payday 2 they have to address this and think a little about the casual player, make them feel like they are actually working towards something with every heist completed. Then there is the always online one of two things (other being progression) that made most people quit before really getting into the game, with the servers not being able to take the heavy hit at launch set such a bad example and I think a lot of people who wanted to play payday 3 just said fuck it and went to play something else to never come back, it was so sad to see. I know for everyone about to defend it that it's not Overkill that fucked up, it was actually the server provider and server infrastructure is hard blah blah I don't want to hear those excuses because that's not going to change that it makes Payday 3 and therefore Overkill look bad when the most eyes are on them. The same with the Nebula system, the actual real reason why it has to be always online, it's trash, and it's obvious that it was not made for payday specifically but an off the shelf thing hammered into payday 3, I hope Nebula gets their shit together and fix their idiotic network and server stuff because how they have handled the server side and always online is a major reason why payday 3 is failing. Just add an offline system, I beg.

[@rhevl3148]

I think the lesson to be learned from this, and it's a lesson that devs repeatedly fail to learn, is that you cannot force players to play your game the way you think it should be played. You can only incentivize them. If you try to force them, they'll just quit the game. I've seen it happen time and time again. Also, if you're going to make an online-only game, make sure you have the resources available to actually host it. First impressions are everything and over the years I've seen dozens of good games die simply because they couldn't keep their servers up on launch day and it made them look like some sort of Korean bucket shop that was only in it for the pump and dump.

[@potawatadingdong]

I uninstalled after about nine hours of playing. I hate the progression, the objectives, the lack of features, the bullet sponge enemies, the ugly menus, the lazy story, the lack of replay value and the fact that Shade never shuts up. This game fell so flat on its face it would be comical if only it didn't cost me $40.

[@ceu160193]

Makes sense. I always walk away from games, that try to dictate to me, what I supposed to find fun and force me into doing something. Fortunately I can't play Payday 3 even if I wanted to, since it's blocked in my region.

[@Shaklin]

Thanks for the video, I totally agree with you. Very nicely summarized at 15:03. I don't understand anyone who thinks it's just the content and that it gets better with more missions. I think it's very sad what they did with Payday, it was always a very special game for me and I don't have that feeling at all with Payday 3.

[@noobsbrother_]

I would like them to implement Offline mode ASAP. I like taking heists at my own pace and offline mode enabled me to do that. I actually don't mind doing challenges to level up. But one of my favorite parts of PAYDAY 2 was grinding heists for XP and I'd like to do that in PAYDAY 3 as well

[@licoricetea.]

It really just feels like they didn’t learn from the successes of their past game. So many things that were QoL in Payday 2 just aren’t in 3. So many things players loved and kept coming back for just aren’t here yet; we don’t even have a lobby chat yet, that’s literally terrible. People loved perk decks, it gave players their individuality, they’re gone now. It’s upsetting, really.

[@luiseduardoribeiro164]

Payday 3 feels more like a predecessor than a successor, it's so basic it feels more barebones than the first game. Taking everything that made this series unique away made me just give up on the game until a major overhaul

[@larry.f]

The one thing I really hate is when people say they "support" the developers. No. You are purchasing a product. You don't "support" Toyota by buying cars without wheels and seats.

[@nuthouseproductz]

Honestly I agree with you on a lot of it I have thrown years into payday 2 even have some of the dlcs you can't get anymore. Yet payday 3 it just feels like it had so much potential to be great yet the xp system out the window gone, crazy weapons to enjoy gone, heists having crazy alternative versions gone. It's like they had so much potential to make it great and like you said just feels like yet another live service game that will die.

[@MIersetting335]

I think the leveling should be a mix of exp from doing the heists and the challenges. Like 80% of just doing heists for experience and 20% of the challenges giving experience.

[@guac7940]

Anyone else remember when games were finished at release? Not meaning "oh the bugs" but instead "oh the content" Games had actual stuff you could do and have a ton of replay ability.

[@dpear3]

I’m going to be brutally honest. Payday 3 isn’t even “good”, now that it’s playable sometimes, it’s “alright” at best. The people saying Payday 3 is great and “just needs more DLC” are coping super hard. It’s almost needs new everything to actually be worth buying, all the missions have nearly no replayability, nearly none of the perks feel good, the guns are good but nothing special, the optimization is garbage. Literally everything short of some of the core mechanics needs an overhaul. Also anyone saying “the game is only $40” is insane. The game is $40, it’s not a triple A game for a bargain, $40 is not some kind of charitable price for the promise of a game.

[@snuckles888]

You definitely can do a heath ledger joker impression

[@m3nguele]

I feel like they wanted to do a game more akin to Left 4 Dead, with more focus on objectives and team-play, but PD2 veterans want a Vermintide-like gameplay, with a "better with friends" and heavier customization. So I think they tried mixing both but ended up bringing the worst of those schools of design, atleast the Stealth is kinda better...

[@craig4209]

Payday 3 is really fun imo. The only thing I don’t like is the levelling system. Payday 3 is a bit empty right now too because there’s not many weapons or heists

[@Hourai]

For me it’s mostly the server-based/online only gameplay that killed my desire to play it. Multiple times I’ve had lag spikes in stealth that just make it feel not good. I was always hosting in PD2 so I had no latency whatsoever there. You could also play offline. Idk if pd3 has Re-added that yet (the tutorial is offline so obv the game can be run locally…) but that was such an important thing for when my internet was down or whatever. Also the self-hosting thing will be important in the future because if and when OVK either moves on from the game or goes insolvent, there will need to be some way to play the game that doesn't rely on OVK's official server hosting. Those two things on top of the higher degree of control made PD2 a much better experience. Even though PD3’s gameplay is perfectly fine, for the most part, everything that was built around it is a direct downgrade from even PDTH. Those supporting elements are important.

[@resonating6621]

the hud you had looks so good wtf

[@PlayerOblivion]

Interesting problem with live service games and sequels is that indeed people will stick to the older title because it just has so much more content, while the new one starts from square one content-wise. To try and outdo the old game with years of servicing on its belt is a massive uphill battle the devs obviously weren't able to overcome.

[@theabyss18]

The game is good, the progression system is what killed me. I felt like I grinded up to lv40 then nothing. It takes so long to lv up now and I really really love this game. It's just like.... I want to see what the devs are gonna do... and I hope they step in the right direction. This game is not fun where it is now.

[@buckmills4159]

Thanks for the video. I feel like this game is less like a game building upon it’s predecessor is instead trying to make something based upon a game that they heard about. Concealment was a mechanic that felt like is had consequences and risks. The builds had depth and felt consequential. Other than a few perks moor loud and a few for “stealth” most of the perks here feel like they don’t have much impact. I loved the variety of pd2. Pd3 everything just feels like more of the same with maybe the exception of road rage which is so scripted that it being different from the other missions is actually a bad thing. The first time I saw the telemetry for wi fi mechanic I thought “if that’s neat” but then it’s in so many of the missions. The combat also feels very bleh. I’m pd2 there were so many niche builds you could go for. They all felt so Different in combat. With pd3 the combat feels more grounded, but also doesn’t provide a lot of options. You can either go armor and try to avoid the hits as much as possible to preserve that resource or you run health with be ability that gives you invulnerability and hope your teammates don’t burn the resource that’s only viable for you lol. The lack of variety in pd3 after all of the variety in pd2 hurts. It’s not just content. It’s the ability to express styles in the games that is so different. Somehow starbreeze took a game with a lot of options on a terrible engine that could barely function and decided as a sequel to give us a powerful engine with way less features and options. I wish they had just remade pd2 on unreal and retuned some of the features that they had to kill for performance like the dual wield shotties…maybe update casing mode.

[@macklee6837]

I think you're right, but I think players would be happy to return a year from now. Quite a few failed launches have had soft reboots and numbers have grown.

[@jobofa4252]

goobypls

[@macklee6837]

@@jobofa4252 pls

[@SakuyalzayoiTheMaid]

COD had a illegitimate child with PD2 and this was born, from the wack progression wanting you to kill 6 skulldozers while backwards-long jumping to the obscene weapon feedback and making armor a semi-finite resource made the entire game into either stealth or go on the most boring ass shootout known to mankind.

[@Hades430]

I hate how many people defend that Payday 3 is not as good as Payday 2 because it had 10 years of content. But, if you're going to create a sequel by forgetting everything you've learned from the previous one, then what's even the point of making the sequel in the first place? Baldur's Gate 3 will not be the same if Larian decides to forget everything they accomplished with Divinity 1 & 2.

[@TheSidwysDrftr]

my issue regarding content was that they sold the game at an indie game price but gave an incomplete game. i wasnt around when PD2 launched but it still felt like it wasnt just a cop out of throwing enemies at you and you just take stuff from point A to B with a lackluster story like it is in PD3. of course, the progression system also killed my vibe after finishing all the missions twice with one stealth and one loud.

[@EllisWolf]

I've spent 1,500+ hours into PD2, for me, the finale of San Francisco saga at the Triad penthouse is where it ended / couldn't be topped anymore. Today, I actually enjoy the somewhat more modest but enjoyable revival of Raid WW2 since I missed WW2 shooters. Speaking of RAIDWW2: It blows my mind that before said revival, RAID got plagued by SEVERAL stupid design choices, that were progressively phased out for something a lot more balanced and (especially) enjoyable. AND SOMEHOW, nearly every single, EVERY SINGLE design flaw RAID had pre-revival update, found its way into Payday 3. It's like either someone at Overkill is foolhardy convinced these ideas MUST WORK and that we as players didn't see the genius behind it, or, that PD3 was made by Overkill's accounting and marketting department after a massive developer exodus and they had to assemble the game from what they knew, with no experience as actual game designers or players. The result feels like a completely by the book corporate videogame that simply checkmarks stuff at the bare minimum according to the perspective of marketting guys and accountants... And it's sad.

[@ezfunperson26]

While I was initially really looking forward to this release after ten years, I'm so glad I held off on pre-ordering and eventually deciding on not buying it. There are plenty of games coming out this year that I can sink my teeth into, instead of dealing with the headaches this game provides.

[@tinypixiebread]

I love Payday and I want to love Payday 3. I remember leaving a little criticism on discord about the challenge base progression and instantly got flooded with "the game just released bro, give it time, they will fix next week" Asking about why the AI (pre patch) feel so bad, replies I got was "Bro stop shitting on the dev, they are indie dev and they are doing their best, they will fix it next week" Wondering why the skills system feel bit boring, people again reply with "I'm having fun so your opinion is worthless, gitgud, they will improve it next week" Ah yes, the perfect cope pit that I do NOT want to join in.

[@MrPrinzStar]

I'm pretty sure PAYDAY 3 was just a marketing gag to boost PAYDAY 2 lol

[@YoeyBoey]

We finished all 8 missions on hard/very hard stealthing except road rage and by the time we finished touch the sky we were level 25ish. All these hours learning and redoing all these missions literally meant nothing exp wise besides first clear and a few random challenges. The system is flawed the only reason my friends and I love the game is because of stealth and when we were presented with this we were severely disappointed and just decided to stop playing until it's fixed,

[@philtorbert8700]

I think that the heists themselves in 3 are a big step up from 2, in terms of like complexity. However, I don't feel that when I'm thinking back on 3's heists. My thought is that the more serious tone is a detriment to the 'feel' of the heists. 2 wasn't all that serious, mechanically, narratively, etc so I didn't really expect complexity and multiple solutions. Because 3 is more serious and leans more towards realism, I do, kinda inadvertantly and subconsciously, expect to be able to play the heists with the freedom of choice the real world has to offer. 3's heists are awesome and fun and mechanically refined and like super super engaging. But 2's heists just feel like. Idk. Better? Like idk how to put it cuz I really like both games

[@wallclock4648]

Simple, they didn’t give the people what they wanted

[@JTruong3rd]

Lot of the original devs left and they're the ones who set the foundation. New devs are trying to recreate that foundations and failed it

[@Stamrinz]

Really good video. Agree on all points. Been watching since early PD2

[@joyfullpuns1593]

I actually really like the bones of the game. I feel like the gun play is a huge improvement, I like the skill system, I LOVED the way they updated stealth by letting you still act without a mask, I really like the more plot centric path they're taking, and I even really enjoy all the heists! But the progression system, the fact it's online only, and seems almost actively hostile to solo play, make me not want to play it. I really love payday 3, I just don't feel like it loves me back.

[@_Devil]

YWNBAW

[@ACD-ti4ph]

This game is dogsh*t

[@lewis9177]

the skill system is ass

[@molassesman4066]

Yeah is it just me or does normal difficulty loud missions feel more inline with what it would like like if 4 level 1s tried playing MAYHEM difficulty with stoic at 4/9 but the grenades equipped

[@loterak]

The fact that concealment is no longer a feature is mind blowing. Why do video game studios insist in making the worst decision possible every time they can? There's definitely admirable things to the new game, but due to progression it gets boring so fast. It just makes me sad Edit: @general you are not a hater. People love calling anyone that criticizes things these days a hater. But the fact is those same people seem to be completely satisfied with mediocrity. It's as if expecting a product to have some love and thought behind it is asking for too much. That's the world we live in 😥

[@Brunosky_Inc]

I don't understand the concealment argument. I always saw it as one of the most annoying mechanics in the game, and one that causes PD2 to have an extremely binary "either full stealth or full loud" approach with no much chance for a mixed approach

[@loterak]

@@Brunosky_Inc In payday 2 there are lots of ways of playing loud with low concealment. But not the other way around, and to be honest it just makes sense. No way you can be sneaky if you have full body armor on and a fucking minigun lol. In this new game nothing really matters, you can always have the most armor and carry masive guns and still do everything in stealth. It's just kinda weird when the last game had such a big focus on concealing your weapons in order to stealth.

[@ToastyHaymaker]

With regards to getting more loot, it should be noted that in PD2's launch extra bags didn't reward XP (hence why blowing up Rats instead of cooking was the best). I'm willing to bet the devs are banking on players wanting to buy lots of stuff and c-stacks helping keep money relevant, but not only is the risk/payout not even across heists but there is hardly enough things to buy. Cosmetics are locked behind the grind and the inventory screen is so small with items unmovable that I really don't want to clutter it. Also I do still find fun in speedrunning heists in stealth for the infamy rewards but it absolutely sucks not being rewarded.

[@dinomite29]

Lol I love the Warframe UI. Also great video

[@KILLOXY]

the 28k - 3k gap is crazy lmfao

[@VRixxo123]

And it just keeps dropping

[@Phoenix-zu6on]

honestly, the worst part for me is how much potential it had. the sneaking feels more dynamic and fun imo and the challenge system coudlve been a really cool thing. but not if 90% of your challenges is just straight up "do this heist 120 times" like wtf is that? there are some really cool ones though like having to clean out the heist completly or not killing a guard or the heist specific ones. PS: i feel like there is a bug on SteamDB, a lot of people seem to be shown as playing the Payday 3 Beta still (it has more players than the regular game)

[@funny4052]

Honestly I think it's just more fun with more personality, state of the game and bugs aside

[@Z0iD_exe]

like your oratory style, subd

[@corgiswitch3833]

As someone who plays payday 3, I only do it because my payday 2 stopped working when I boot it up