Why does your kickflip spin backside? (1/2) Foot placement and shoulders

In this video, we will analyze why your board spins backside when you kickflip.
I could flip my board after a while of practice. But I always had difficulty keeping it align with the direction I was going to. It always spun backside and all those existing tutorials always said it's either because of my backfoot or shoulders. I believe the same thing must have happened to you if you find this video.
Let's see exactly what causes the spinning problem.
You can view 3D models from here:
whythetrick.io/trouble/kickfl...
Please visit my website and let’s study skateboarding tricks scientifically and objectively using 3D models and scientific theories.
Please take a moment and try to study this in detail.
I'm trying to eliminate subjectivity from my explanation as much as possible by referring to scientific and physics theories. Please use my 3D models to solve your "why."
#skateboarding
#kickflip
#howtoskate
#スケートボード
#キックフリップ
#3D
#blender
#three.js
Traditionally, skateboarding how-to videos have always been subjective and the majority of explanations are based on speakers' experiences.
To avoid relying on my personal experiences, please fully utilize the 3D models.
All skaters have different questions.
So that you can analyze skateboarding tricks in detail and solve your "whys," those 3D models are made fully interactive.
The 3D models feature these functions below:
- change camera angle
- adjust play speed
- change transparency
- display gridlines, etc.
Aside from that, I try to explain concepts of skateboarding tricks based on facts, calculations, scientific and physics theories. I may make mistakes so please leave a comment if you find anything.

[@stschannelt1476]

Dude your videos are criminally underrated there is no reason why you shouldn't have over a million views... Hopefully the algo keeps pushing you to others like me because this is the type of content that will push skateboarding pasts it's limits. 👍

[@Truth_Hurts_Bad]

This is superb. I'm just getting back into skating since childhood, and am also teaching my daughter. I've had to re-learn flip trix, and have been practicing my kickflip -- this video, and your channel, has certainly given me much to consider. Thanx.

[@whythetrick]

Great! As much as I want to keep on skating forever, my body's not moving as much as it used to. I thought my knowledge will have been lost as soon as I quit. Let's do what we can do to pass it on. Please keep on watching & commenting my videos. Really appreciate it.

[@jay-iy5zd]

@@whythetrick quit? you are young and have decades of skating left

[@jeffli480]

I just commented on your other kickflip video before I discovered this one, commented exactly about foot placement and shoulders 😂. You’re absolutely right that they don’t directly create problems and you can definitely kickflip with open shoulders and popping off anywhere on the tail. The point about it potentially causing tilting is an awesome insight! I would suggest that having your torso turned against your legs might not be the most ergonomic and efficient way to jump and maximize your body’s energy into the kickflip tho. Also would like to see your ideas about posture. For example, I feel a lot of ppl tend to torque their body against their knees when they crouch, esp if your shoulders don’t align with the direction your knee is pointing, and that ends up wasting a lot of energy as well as possibly causing pain long term. Love the channel! These are things I thought only I was crazy enough to spend a lot of time thinking about in secret haha. The 3D models also have a lot of potential - I think most trick tips tend to make me think two-dimensionally about tricks, those models really help see things from different angles much better.

[@whythetrick]

Thanks a lot for your insight. Regarding posture... I'm trying NOT to be subjective as much as possible in my videos but I can assure you some things. 1. Riding with your shoulders opened is definitely not good for your body. It's just not natural for human bodies to be twisted like that. I think this will cause pain in the long run. Recommend riding switch sometimes. 2.In terms of the effectiveness of energy, I didn't really think opening shoulders itself directly leads to wasting energy. But now that you mentioned it, it might be right. Perhaps I could talk about that in the future videos. Anyway thanks a lot again. My channel wouldn't mean anything without valuable viewers like you.

[@andreasvanbrusselen3802]

God bless this guy showed up on my recommended, I’ve just bingewatched 5 videos in a row

[@bonksmusic1]

This happens to me. So to counteract it, before I pop, I start turning frontside a little bit.. I think putting the back foot in the back pocket (image fs shove) would help too, but to balance it out would require the front foot to be more fully on the board, which would also require a higher jump because the board would flip slower. So depending on your ability you should strike balance between the 2 foot set ups & adjust where you aim your turn before flip.

[@dominodoge]

dude i have exactly one year doing kickflips and landing on angle,there are no tutorials on how to fix it,i hope this works!

[@-dfh-866]

How are your kickflips now??

[@StuffnThings42]

I landed my first kickflip recently partly because of these videos. Thanks! Then today I would have landed another one but my board turned backside. This video is fantastic! I guess I have more work to do.

[@whythetrick]

Great! Keep it up!

[@Robebabu]

This is good stuff. I'm glad I found this channel. Subscribed.

[@sirmongoose]

this literally changed how my mind thinks of a kickflip. thank you

[@whythetrick]

You are very welcome!

[@aarontabuchi5693]

This turning problem has been the last piece of the puzzle for me and my kickflip journey. Weight distribution as instructed in this video definitely helped me. Just curious though if you’ve considered that poor quality of flick might cause a corkscrew effect resulting in an angled landing. My board rotates backside most of the time. Yet I have noticed that the times when it stays straight are the times when I’ve executed a good flick. I provided just enough finesse so as to not make too much contact with the nose as my foot whips it. Too much contact between foot and nose and the board flips off axis resulting in corkscrew. This throws the tail end away from me on the heel side. And I watch pros in slow motion, I notice they too sometimes create a corkscrew movement rather than a flat z-axis spin. The difference is they catch the board at the top of the jump before the board has a chance to turn too much. Maybe beginners notice the turn more because they are less likely to catch the board and more likely to wait for the board to hit the ground before landing. This gives the board more time in the air to flounder. Anyway this is just a theory for you to consider.

[@FickleWid]

Great video. I've been learning skateboarding from a physics perspective just because of my background and all the tutorials were frustrating me because they were saying "just close your shoulders and do THIS foot positioning". I would even try to counteract shoulder rotation by rotating opposite board spin to no success. In reality the weight distribution is the underlying factor along with the distribution of forces your active feet (not positioned feet) apply to the board. This is different for everybody based on body mechanics and even board construction.

[@rmhfpv9225]

fantastic. I agree with all of it.

[@nicolaslopez23]

Dudee I have this problem, thanks for this !

[@browniegames865]

Also try tightening ur back trucks only. I ride super loose trucks, but i find i get way way better and controlled pop with a tighter back truck. And it doesnt really mess with the loose truck feel.

[@zueiraplay_4173]

Bro I was trying some flips and it started to spin backside so i recorded some footages of my self and i was really poping with my toe because like 3 days before that I was trying some backside flips and maybe my brain got addicted to this "wheight distribution/poping" so in the next session I'll try to correct this and get back with backside flips again 😛, Thank you so much for the explanation.

[@whythetrick]

Great! Let me know how it goes!

[@zueiraplay_4173]

@whythetrick bro I couldn't manage to fix my kickflip 😭💀 I'm getting so frustrated with it, i recorded myself doing it and i saw that I was pitching the wheel like I'm poping with it, when i flick the kickflip it doesn't rotates emadiallty bs it truns when i catch it with my back foot, could you please help me to fix this 🙏🙏😭

[@browniegames865]

I think the board spins like that when u flick to much off the nose. The backfoot doesnt seem to come into play much when this happens to me. A lot of things can cause this. Muscle memory, ur mind and body tryin to make adjustments to ur flick when changing ur approach to the trick. Then there is also the fact that it spins after the catch which could mean weight distribution or balance in the air. Its hard to explain what im tryin to say here.

[@Brodiesoldvids]

your channel is so underrated man holy shit

[@whythetrick]

Thank you. Please let me know what you’d like me to talk about if you have any.

[@Brodiesoldvids]

@@whythetrick to add on what you mentioned in the video, I think if you're leaning forward when you pop, it still doesn't rotate at that time, I think its when you catch it, your back foot has to go behind you to catch it. so when you're coming down it pushes the back of the board back more to be able to land on it. maybe im wrong but just my guess. such a great channel man!!

[@ma-di6qf]

Yo, this blows my mind. I away thought foot placement effect how bord spin.

[@samakatindi7399]

Thanks to your videos I landed my first kickflip

[@whythetrick]

That's just a result of your effort. Congrats anyway! Happy new year!!

[@FloatyWeirdo]

finallyyyyyyy somethin behind the accidental varial flip kickflip bruh i be tryna learn kickflips and it always goes varial

[@bsszzzz1779]

hello there, wow i just found your channel and i like the 3d approach with blender. PS. i do my kickllips exactly the same and have often problems while catching it backside.. i figured out what my problem is. i have difficiculties jumping straight up/slightly back so which means my body weight is in front of my board .. if i achiev to jump righty, there is no problem catching it. i lean to forward like i would do popshove it..first i thought its the flick..but i am just leaning to far forward.. PS: stil watching.. and the treflip thing.. i can flick but i cant catch with backfoot.. so also weightdistribution problem

[@whythetrick]

You are the first one who mentioned Blender.

[@bsszzzz1779]

@@whythetrick my brother uses blender and stuff.. he makes science fiction pictures and videos.. learned everything by himself.

[@bsszzzz1779]

i dont know if i am allowed to post his website here .. but i love the physical way how you describe tricks. i stil have to watch all of them

[@shoelesswhale]

Really skateboarding is an exercise in causal inference. Eliminating confounding factors that don't help land a trick and doing things that actually cause you to land it. I wonder how much your view of causal inference influenced the making of this video.

[@chickenator9618]

i need help, im able to flick the board and keep it straight, however I acheave this by opening my shoulders, which makes my body land rotated. i can also flick and land with my shoulders closed and my body straight, however then the board lands a bit backside. so it seems I am able to do one or the other, but not both please help.

[@whythetrick]

Would you mind sending me a video somehow? I might be able to help you better.

[@thebayharborbutcher9115]

I feel like I get a much better flick when I do more of a backside flip motion but I am stuck in limbo right now because of not finding that perfect spot to flick also sometimes it feels like I don’t even flick and the board flips so it throws me off if I need to flick with my foot or just angle it and do a Ollie north sorry if this makes no sense I’m rambling

[@Dracula_sb]

I regular flip with open shoulders but straight shoulder my switch ones that sometimes backside flip or I catch too much grip which is why I'm watching this lol

[@Jinsuun]

Your simulator also has one extra flaw; the trucks are stiff. So in reality, the trucks will bend to the side and that will skew the mechanics somewhat.

[@whythetrick]

true.

[@whythetrick]

thanks for the comment though. will improve the simulator...

[@Jinsuun]

@@whythetrick np. intersting if you can actually do that. That's a lot of physics; bushings stiffness, trucks tightness, and then trucks pivoting and turning ... interested to see if it actually works out

[@whythetrick]

Thanks all for watching whythetrick. I've made an AI motion converter with which you can generate a 3D animation (something like you see in this video) by uploading a 2D video. Please let me know what youn think! whythetrick.io/

[@frater_niram]

around 8:30 foot placement: thats funny i do the exact opposite (front foot in the center, back foot towards the front shuv pocket) and my trucks are so loose they actually move when i hold it by hand and shake it how could i get them down with such a difference of technique..? (i can kickflip above the flatbar thats next to you, and am precise enough to get into 50 and back 50s with a flip)

[@whythetrick]

Interesting

[@frater_niram]

@@whythetrick and also regarding oliveira's flips, i think he keeps open shoulders so that he can bring the board in front of him (those two axis you are pointing out): he basically maintains the board vertical axis in front of his body so he can lift it in front if himself because that gives his legs more room

[@riccardotanfi1816]

Can you pls di this whith heelflip

[@sebasp4029]

Ojala este en español para entender mejor 😢

[@whythetrick]

Haha wish I could.

[@thedarkone8867]

Mine spins frontside

[@whythetrick]

Any clip you can share with me?

[@thedarkone8867]

@@whythetrick right now no but I will film one soon.Where should I send you the clip when I film it?

[@yhnyves210896]

Some people doesn’t have good kickflips because they doesn’t learned Ollie properly

[@whythetrick]

Maybe true. They do have a lot in common.

[@flynnlang6482]

My kickflips turn backside literally no matter what I do no matter what I don’t know why

[@flynnlang6482]

I used to do it perfect every try but now it turns backside every time and I toe drag with my back foot every time

[@whythetrick]

Any video you can share with me??

[@tatmanmyownbossdannydraco]

Smh 🤦‍♂️

[@tatmanmyownbossdannydraco]

This would be true if we all had balls for feet🤦‍♂️😂🤣

[@maxch9397]

日本語でお願いします🤲

[@whythetrick]

うーむ。考えておきます。

[@PHeMoX]

Lol, this is such nonsense though. The weight doesn't matter. You can start out a kickflip in literally any position. Crossfooted, all feet on one side, it doesn't matter. As long as one foot can pop the tail and the other can complete a flick. Weight also doesn't matter, because the only way you're going to land the trick, is when you remain within a proper range of balance. Shift your weight too far off and you simply won't land the trick. Sometimes beginners use shifting their weight to their advantage to stay over the board. Think pop shove it, but jumping forward to stay above the board. Instead of scoping the back tail under you, so the pop shove it stays more in the same location. What makes the board spin backside on landing is actually upper body movement that has a dominant movement towards already turning backside. Usually when people flick of the side of the board when doing their kickflips, the front foot can end up too far away from the board to comfortably land back on. If you pre-turn backside and do a slight turn right after the pop, it is possible to force your front foot back over the board almost guaranteed. It's similar to jumping forward doing a 'beginner pop shove it'. There's a consequence to doing this though, which is the turning of the board on landing towards 90 degrees backside. I should also stress that a scoop heavy pop very quickly results in a varial kickflip. More so than a flick that is following backside direction at the very end of the flick. A varial kickflip is probably easier to do than a kickflip, when a pop shove it feels natural to do. As for your physics simulation using a ball, do keep in mind it leaves out a lot of other factors that play a role. For example, there isn't just 1 force going down, making the board flip over. But there's a directional force to the pop, another directional force of the body weight going down (possibly at an angle, not straight down) and there's the turning of the upper body, friction of the flick and vector direction of the flick. In reality, there are about a thousand different ways to kickflip; including flicking down (mob flip), or leaning back a lot and having the kickflip do more of a roll over, or doing more of a preloaded pressurized kickflip that has a lot of counterweight on the heelside, or leaning to heavy on your back leg (rocket flip), all the way to a Nyjah kickflip with an extremely short but snappy flick on the outside of the nose that makes the flip go very fast and accurate. Ironically, one of your own real world kickflips with two feet heelside already shows it doesn't matter if all movements start from that position given enough flick and pop. I'm not hating, I actually appreciate the 3D animations. But the explanation on the physics behind it is somewhat incorrect at times. Not 100% incorrect, but mostly very incomplete leading to the wrong conclusions. One of the big factors I miss in a lot of these is how important it is to really crouch down and really jump up a lot when doing any flip trick. If there's no enough time for the board to pop up and spin, it'll never work no matter the proper technique.

[@oL5re9re55ion]

I really like your intent to analyze tricks in depth, but there is a risk to relying exclusively on videos of yourself as evidence. You are too susceptible to anecdotal evidence that way.

[@whythetrick]

Now that's what I call productive feedback. I've been thinking the same thing ever since I started this channel, and that's exactly why I developped an AI motion capturing system (available on my website) so that everyone can explain their opinions using 3D models. Thanks a lot!

[@oL5re9re55ion]

@@whythetrick it would be a really cool project to use software to evaluate the kickflips of 150 pro/sponsored skaters, to see what foot/body positions and motions are most common. Someone should do that as a doctoral dissertation 😀

[@whythetrick]

@@oL5re9re55ion finally someone who speaks the same language!!

[@Andrew-js6hn]

Bro, incredible video, thank you for the explanation. Skateboarding is all about physics!

[@whythetrick]

No, thank YOU for understanding it. Really. This video means a lot to me as I used to suffer from this for quite a long time. Hope it helps you too.

[@Andrew-js6hn]

@@whythetrick Thank you for your answer and your time, I would like make a suggestion for a future video: how your arms affect the balance while doing tricks.