Why doesn't Baseball work in Florida?

[@ShootItALBY]

There's no ice in Florida but hockey has become more popular than baseball

[@cost7569]

Yes there is if you put ice in your Tequila when you order down there. Lol

[@sn0ipe333]

Tampa has a dynasty and panthers made a Cinderella run in the post season last year. Baseball hasn’t had anything to root for since 2008.

[@Shineysculpture1]

Panthers have only had a good following for the past few years. They were bottom 3 in attendance consistently before that.

[@thebikewatcher9819]

​@@Shineysculpture1100% correct.

[@Rellx305]

@@Shineysculpture1 An that’s because of bad management and poor ownership. Just like what the marlins are going through. South Florida loves a team that try at least. But when the ownership doesn’t lift a finger or a damn bout the team success. It will show in the attendance how we feel

[@WWRRNN91]

In Clearwater, a few miles from the trop, the streets are literally lined with Phillies banners. The Yankees & blue jays also bigger in the area than the Rays. Baseball doesn’t work in Florida because half of the leagues home bases are there. A huge chunk of Florida has ties to other parts of the country and are still fans of those teams

[@ronclark9724]

Florida has a number of Gulf Coast League teams during the summer in many of the Grapefruit League ballparks. Florida also has dog racing and horse racing. Not to mention the wonderful beaches and fishing. While Tampa and St.Petersburgh maybe considered twin cities, they are more like Oakland and San Francisco with one bridge than they are Minneapolis-St. Paul or Dallas-Fort Worth with numerous freeway and highway connections...

[@steveciccarelli3609]

1:43 yes, Florida is great for Spring Training where snow birds can watch their favorite team.

[@WWRRNN91]

Sick of hearing it’s the traffic or the stadium. People sit in traffic around the country to watch their team play & I just visited the trop and honestly nothing wrong with watching a game there. There is just too much baseball in Florida. People don’t care about another MLB team when their favorite team visits for 2 months out the year. You can even watch your local teams minor leaguers the whole summer instead of going to a Rays/Marlins game

[@flyonawall6521]

Very True.

[@baits8420]

@@WWRRNN91u know nothing about our region, cute try though

[@ryanschlesinger123]

The Rays issue is that they're located in a bad area and play at a bottom 2 stadium in MLB. The Marlins issue is that they've had terrible ownership throughout the franchise's history and only won 85+ games 3 times in 31 years. The Marlins would have decent attendance if they put a consistently good team on the field, the city of Miami just completely gave up on them.

[@marclucas9701]

Plus in regards to the Marlins, some of their food offerings may not be all that they're cracked up to be.

[@ddt3831]

The Rays are also competing with the almighty NY Yankees!! The Yankees have based their spring training and corporate HQ in Tampa for many years and have a large presence there - I believe there are more Yankee fans than Rays fans in Tampa, and I also believe they have to play in St.Pete because the Yankees are secretly BLOCKING them from playing in Tampa, which they consider to be THEIR turf. They should have never put a team in Tampa, or should have forced the Yankees to leave when they did.

[@SirManfly]

@@ddt3831but the Rays ownership is doubling down on the location for their new stadium in St. Petersburg and that’s not going to help the attendance problem! 🙄🤷🏻‍♂️

[@krisandnancyboucher1277]

I think the Trop gets a bad rap. It’s quirky, but I’ve come to enjoy it quite a bit. Staff are very nice & appreciative of your being there, food choices are good (& ok prices), & the team is fun to watch. I also think the neighborhood is not as bad as many seem to think. That said, I agree that the Trop’s location makes it too difficult for fans from the larger base, in metro-Tampa, to get to the games.

[@The737pilot26]

@@krisandnancyboucher1277agreed

[@mgutierrez2351]

As a latino, florida has a HUGE Latin American population, especially Cubans, Dominicans, Puerto Ricans, Salvadorians, Panamanians, Venezuelans and Colombians. All big baseball nations with either it being their biggest or second biggest sport and all with huge following and fanbases. Its definitely a team problem.

[@whiteclouds26]

Yeah and lot Haitians and bahmahians

[@avery.a5948]

Lots of Jews too

[@crazydudetz]

So the team's city has the baseball demographic but has to be winning to attract spectators? Then Miami isn't really a baseball town and they definitely don't deserve a team. True fans support their team from start to finish, no matter how well or poorly they're doing. In the English Premier League, even the worst ranked teams sell out their stadium. Every team suffers a bad season and if a bad season begins a cycle of low attendance and further bad seasons, then the team isn't sustainable

[@talcat8031]

@@crazydudetzI mean cities like Miami and LA usually don’t support bad teams in any sport there is just so much to do if they are bad they do something

[@mayquelmiranda6282]

@@crazydudetz That’s in every city if your team sucks for 30 years and doesn’t do anything to fix how in the hell do you expect the people to support that team. Thanks to Miami taxpayers marlins got a new stadium 🏟️ personally it was the right thing to do. The people in Miami came through we did our part they haven’t done their part

[@gTuya11]

I live in Miami The Marlins have a great location near main highway arteries. That stadium used to be the orange bowl and had sold out games for years on end. The ownership has and always been the problem. Selling off the team after ‘97 and ‘03 and then when we finally make the playoffs again last year, we let kim ang walk.

[@josef.2415]

This, at least for me, is the reason

[@351wmustanggt]

It is a location problem with the Rays period!!

[@neneshubby]

Nobody cares

[@juniorcarmelomeoli1309]

@@neneshubby #cares

[@tudormiller887]

@@351wmustanggt They've got that non retractable domed stadium at Tropicana Field, the only one in MLB, and the smallest stadium by seating capacity. 👍

[@JeffBird86]

For the Tampa Bay Rays, Attendence would be a lot better if they were in a better location. Remember when the braves played at turner field? They fixed that problem with trust park.

[@TheBattleforArcadia]

nah, more people go to Bucs and Lightning games from Pinellas than people from Hillsborough. The Trop is almost 40 years old, and it looks and feels it. But truth be told there are too many people from other parts of the country that follow their respective home teams. So even if or when the Rays get a name stadium, it won't make that much of a difference in a couple years.

[@JeffBird86]

@@TheBattleforArcadia are the stadiums in close proximity to each other?

[@giovannifitzpatrick1987]

@@TheBattleforArcadia I'm born and raised in Tampa, and it's absolutely untrue that more people from Pinellas go to Rays and Lightning games than do Hillsborough, for the simple fact of proximity and the fact that Hillsborough has around 1.6x the population of Pinellas. The issue with the Rays has always been about location. You can't use the argument that it's because people root for their home teams, because the Lightning and Rays are roughly the same age (Lightning moved to the Ice Palace/Amalie in 1996, the Rays began playing in 1998), yet the Lightning can easily sell out Amalie, especially around playoff season, and hockey certainly isn't/wasn't as popular as baseball when we got both teams. The Bucs absolutely sucked until the late-90s, and football was certainly popular well before then, yet you don't see the attendance issues even though Tampa/St.Pete/Clearwater has a large admixture of non-natives. The common thread has been the fact that the Bucs and the Lightning have their stadiums in Tampa, while the Rays play in St. Pete. Full stop. No non-baseball fan wants to cross one of two long-ass bridges to go see a Rays game in a half-empty stadium. Even though downtown St. Pete is lovely, parking is a pain, and you're talking about Uber/Lyft totals reaching over $100+ for someone who wants to go from Tampa to St. Pete and back. That's simply untenable for a lot of people, especially once you include food, drinks, cover charges, etc. The Rays having a stadium in Tampa would easily bump attendance by 25% at a bare minimum. If they had a good stadium with a good location, that number only goes up. But they've shot themselves in the foot by rejecting proposals to move to Tampa, and given the growth that Tampa has experienced, the amount of locations available are dwindling by the day, and the proposal they accepted for their new stadium in St. Pete isn't gonna be done until 2028 at the earliest.

[@ramonflores7665]

Its Miami! people just have better things to do than watch a pretty bad baseball team! The Rays ballpark location is terrible , they'd have much better attendance if they played in Tampa.

[@Tampafan33]

Exactly. Hockey fills a stadium with 22000 people yet st Pete cant get that every night?? Yeah cuz st Pete is a shithole and no one cares about baseball

[@yetimelly523]

Right. Marlins ballpark should be in Miami Gardens area north of Miami to bring in those ft Lauderdale and West Palm Beach fans.

[@legoman2313]

It doesn’t help the product on the field is also garbage 😂😂😂. Put a good product and people will go out of their way to watch the Heat, Dolphins, and the panthers are always packing the house

[@Shineysculpture1]

Why is the new rays stadium also going to be in St. Pete with their horrendous attendance?

[@yetimelly523]

You're right about the Rays. Hopefully brand new park in downtown St pete will attract more fans. Yeah Miami people dgaf about sports. Ft Lauderdale/West Palm Beach and other coastal beach towns are where the MLB fans are.

[@adriansierra751]

As a Miami fan... the team sucks, that's why attendance is horrid. MIAMI fans want winners.

[@Millard.Fillmore]

The team averaged less than 20,000 when they won the World Series… But yeah winning would totally change everything

[@ranelgallardo7031]

I feel like it’s all of Florida fans. Miami Heat fans were only high in attendance when LeBron and Wade were playing. They’re recently seeing some success and they’re still having a hard time getting attendance.

[@adriansierra751]

@@ranelgallardo7031 Traffic is beyond a nightmare.

[@joelmatthews1931]

@@ranelgallardo7031The heat sold out every game this season

[@ranelgallardo7031]

@@joelmatthews1931 How many of them were Heat fans though?

[@RobSmith-ye3rk]

If the the dolphins and heat were run like the marlins then they wouldn’t have good attendance either, it’s an event town

[@mayquelmiranda6282]

Agree

[@Rellx305]

FACTS

[@stevensuarez4843]

Even the Panthers nowadays 😊

[@RobSmith-ye3rk]

Agreed, as a south Floridian, I believe that if the Marlins were consistently competitive then they would average 20,000 plus.

[@mayquelmiranda6282]

@@RobSmith-ye3rk 25k and plus and the weekend and 15 k regular weekday.

[@justinoliveira3063]

It’s a sport issue, because hockey doesn’t have an issue pulling the numbers in Florida. Arenas were packed for the Panthers/Lightning Stanley Cup Playoff series

[@Bredaxe]

Big time and even here in Orlando, ECHL Solar Bears games are packed for the playoffs. I went to one the other night. Baseball has a ticket price problem

[@JackKnoxx]

I leave Hockey for the Canadians.

[@ronclark9724]

@@Bredaxe Charging too much for too many games, unlike the few football games in a season... I am sure average attendance would skyrocket if baseball played as many games per week as basketball or hockey... But the average drops significantly when you are playing nearly everyday on television or half the summer at home in your stadium...

[@user-gh3pz7do4o]

The Lighting have a great location and put out a great product. Same for the Panthers. I think all baseball stadiums are too big.

[@OCPDesigns]

The popularity of hockey is much younger (especially in America) compared to baseball. Transplants moving here anywhere from 5-30 years ago largely didn't follow hockey and thus didn't really support a hockey team. On the flip side, baseball fandom is extremely historic in the USA. Families have generations of MLB fandom that they bring to Tampa when they move here.

[@jasonjones9197]

In 27 years of Rays history, they have outdrawn the Lightning ON AVERAGE ATTENDANCE only 9 times. This despite the fact that Tropicana Field has had, at times, more than twice the capacity that the Lightning could host.

[@billfuhrman9772]

Have you been to Tropicana Field? The place is a DUMP in a terrible location. The Rays have fans but most watch on tv

[@BobThompson-y9p]

The lightning won the Stanley cup twice, plus have been very good recently. The lightning also have the advantage of northerners watching games on winter vacations.

[@SingleStepStudios]

Funny enough the Lightning used to play at Tropicana Field for a few years back in the 90s

[@bostonwalkdrive7763]

@@SingleStepStudios I remember when the NHL set attendance records there in the early days of the Lightning. Tampa seems like a hockey town to me.

[@jasong428]

My parents had to go to St Petersburg for some specialty-sized tires needed right now and they said it was pretty bad hood. Probably not attracting the washed populations.

[@OCPDesigns]

A couple things to add with the Rays in particular. The biggest issue is for sure the amount of transplants that move here and bring their fandom with them then force their kids to root for their team but there are a couple other points. There is virtually no advertising or effort on the Rays part throughout Tampa. Drive around the Tampa Bay area and you will see "Go Bolts" and "Go Bucs" billboards and signs hanging everywhere no matter the time of year. I hardly ever see, if at all, any Rays signage outside of the stadium in the area. There might be a small city banner hanging if the Rays make the playoffs. Cheap ownership who doesn't spend money on the roster also doesn't help to grow the game in their own area. The Rays actually have a top TV rating year in and year out. Ticket sales/attendance is surprisingly low of the way teams make their money. I don't think looking at just attendance is accurate to judge a fanbase, especially considering how isolated/bad the Trop is and how hot it is in Florida during the summer months.

[@jmes4852]

That's alsl because they are in St. Pete. Takes me 15 mins to get to Ray J or Amelie. The Trop is over an hour away and can have some of the worst traffic.

[@Godert.]

@@jmes4852 30 minutes can turn into 2 hours with traffic on that bridge, but yeah i never see a "Rays up" or anything to advertise rays baseball in the area.

[@beaver1675]

My biggest question is why the HELL are they planning on staying St Pete if they're gonna build a new ballpark with their location being their biggest complaint?

[@floridabeacheshighdefdrone1371]

Isolated? They’re right on the edge of an extremely vibrant downtown.

[@OCPDesigns]

​@@floridabeacheshighdefdrone1371 Virtually the entire west side of the stadium is the ocean which means you've eliminated access from an entire direction. You ideally want people flowing in from all directions, which you don't get with a stadium in St Pete. You've eliminated an entire population (the highest population density is Tampa and east btw) that is not going to travel 1+ hour to a game.

[@Christian-xf4xm]

Lot of transplants in Florida

[@tomace7924]

Pretty much sums it up.

[@insertnamehere5809]

It's a similar story with Phoenix, lots of transplants with their own teams.

[@scifyry]

Right lol. No one wants to be cold and miserable up North.

[@dr.pendyke4887]

and they arrive in FL with their allegiances firmly in place

[@ranelgallardo7031]

@@insertnamehere5809Houston has a similar problem but there is still some good attendance and following for the local teams.

[@robertstroud5750]

Baseball worked just fine in Florida till the Marlins SCREWED their fan base not once but twice. Player Fire Sales after 1997 and 2003. If I recall correctly, after the 97 World Series, the Marlins waited till AFTER ticket renewals to send key Players packing. Marlins USED to have a fan base that showed up. Marlins screwed them and have fielded nothing but garbage since. Rays should move North of Tampa.

[@F150XLTDAD]

I could attest to this always went to marlins games when they were the Florida marlins and they played at sunlife stadium but ownership kept killing that franchise especially after they moved into the new stadium. Only gone once since 2012 never going back probably

[@jayboogie1295]

The location of marlins park isn’t a problem. The Miami Heat have no problem getting attendance. People not being at their seats for Heat games has nothing to do with traffic. They are in line for beer and I would know since I go to Heat games. Marlins park is in a better location because it has several arteries for traffic and for the WBC, there was no traffic issue and they sold out. The attendance issue is because everyone is a Yankees or Mets fan in Miami. The Heat and Panthers get more fans than the marlins and that’s because they built up a fan base and the marlins failed to do so. The marlins needed to sign a bunch of Cuban national team players and location Miami players and that would’ve generated a ton of interest like Jose Fernandez did. When he pitched, attendance spiked. The marlins are also broadcasted on Bally Sports and that network has decided to go to war with cable so that only Comcast carries it and most people in Miami don’t have Comcast so the marlins fans can’t even watch games on TV.

[@marclucas9701]

Interesting

[@breadwinnerbob727]

Rays on bally as well

[@Roger.R.M.A.]

Remember that the loandepot park hosted the Caribbean series in february and the attendance for the final game (Venezuela vs Dominican Republic) was 36,677!!!

[@legoman2313]

Because people care about their home countries and good teams rather than the bad product the marlins have been pumping for what feels to me forever

[@blevinsfrank5453]

Thats more about hispanic racism than those people being fans of baseball or the marlins.

[@giselagodoy4114]

Bro just be a Miami Heat fan

[@joelarticuno]

I've went to one of the Caribbean series games and it was probably most likely the most lively and loudest miami baseball game I have been. Even off a hard hit foul ball, fans are much more into the game in the caribbean series compared to the marlins games. I went to marlins game this month and it was probably the quiestest game ever. To add, in the caribbean series when a team is down by a great amount the crowd does not go quiet or leave. They instead still cheer and create noise unlike marlins games. For the marlins, it doesn't get better when you get rid of your best players for scraps.

[@estebanswan]

Wrong. People in rural Florida care about baseball. The entire north central part of the state cares about baseball. The problem is the teams are inaccessible from the areas of the state that truly love baseball. Put a team in northern Orlando or western Jacksonville and they'll THRIVE.

[@Ibhenriksen]

I doubt that people who live in rural Florida will want to put up with traffic, light pollution, and expansion. They want peace and quiet.

[@estebanswan]

@@Ibhenriksen Yeah, rural Floridians never leave their farm. GTFO. Areas around Ocala and Gainesville are what I'm talking about. Baseball is generational there. Kids grow up playing it in those areas and have for decades. They've also got big money to burn.

[@jrvegeeta]

@@Ibhenriksen Have you even been to Jacksonville? Traffic near downtown is completely clogged in the mornings on weekdays. Then there’s Sunday afternoons during football season (although the Jaguars do handle traffic better than a lot of pro teams). Baseball can work in Jacksonville, but the baseball stadium here has some historical buildings next to it that most are not willing to tear down to renovate the ballpark for MLB status. Chances are that another location in Jax will have to suffice if an expansion team is proposed.

[@AndyGarcia-ch1ci]

Yeah the jumbo shrimp games do well in Jax. The problem is we all braves fans up here 🔥🔥🔥

[@RYMAN1321]

Let’s also not forget the Marlins’ two World Series wins coming within their first 10 years of existence. That’s more than other teams can claim credit for.

[@NewNomics]

1. Start time and traffic. Very hard to get to St. Pete for 7 PM game. Lighting has the same issue going the other way ever since they went from 7:30 to 7 starts. Lightning make due with the larger city and population density. 2. Minor League ball is everywhere. Everyone in the bay area is 5 - 30 mins from a minor League park. More affordable to boot. Plus they pull in all the Philly, Yankees, Jays and Pirates transplant fans. 3. Day games don't work in St. Pete. No one takes an afternoon off to go. This isn't Chicago. In fact weekday day games should be a dying breed because they don't draw. 4. No team attachment. Lightning and Bucs keep and pay popular players. They even track ROI on the popularity of players. Rays just dump every popular player once they decide to cut salary. Why buy a jersey or get invested in something that's a revolving door. 5. The last thing would be the park itself. It's not great but serviceable. I think if it wasn't premium pricing for seats and concessions they would stand a chance in that building. But a bleeder ticket, onsite parking, 1 beer and peanuts will run you at least $60-$75. Bring a family it's hundreds.

[@seanb5522]

Went to a game there recently while on vacation, its not even close to downtown Tampa. I think they'd be just fine if they were actually in Tampa. Also the people that live in Tampa all seem to be from the northeast so they are big Yankees + Red Sox + Mets fans its hard to get a loyal following for the Rays

[@legoman2313]

The Yankees also have a stadium right next to the buccaneers stadium as well

[@Mbarnstein62891]

Of course it works, that's the reason spring training exists in Florida!

[@jnh242]

The Rays and Marlins are two of the youngest franchises in MLB. Baseball, probably more than any other major American sport, is very traditional. Lifelong fandoms are often established at a very young age. The generation that grew up with these teams are reaching adulthood and likely beginning the process of passing down that fandom to their children. Also, Florida as everyone knows is a destination for both tourists and retirees from other parts of the country. Other fanbases will probably always represent well in Florida stadiums. The other thing this video misses completely is the TV ratings. The Rays have one of the highest average TV and streaming viewerships in MLB (again, probably in part due to the younger generation, many of whom can’t yet buy tickets or drive to the ballpark). It’s a long-term game. Give these teams some time.

[@RYMAN1321]

This. It is remarkable though that the Marlins won their two World Series in only their first 10 years. That’s much more successful than other teams have had. I’m sure the other five teams wish they had at least one. Not to mention the Padres and Brewers who are 20+ years older and still don’t have any.

[@seirv0621]

It's a location for both of these teams, I'll tell you first hand as a person that lives in Miami that getting to the Marlins stadium is one of the most aggravating things about the Marlins stadium otherwise it's a beautiful stadium with very good amenities. But it's horrific location is something that I cannot get over. Once it's 20 minutes till game start it's impossible to get in there and find any type of parking at all and since Florida is a mainly car driven society that makes it incredibly hard to attend games

[@mayquelmiranda6282]

It takes 15 minutes to get to stadium and I live in Kendall

[@JonSmith-hk1bq]

It was always a dumb idea to put a stadium in Miami. Moving there effectively cut Palm Beach County out of the fanbase. Granted, where they used to play in Miami Gardens isn't all that far away. But the difference in access is huge. Just take the Turnpike. It used to be the Marlins had a fanbase, anemic as it was, that stretched 70 miles up and down the coast.

[@aye_yo_mick]

One thing you didn't bring up. Many people in the Tampa Bay area are not native Floridians, therefore there is no lifelong attachment (or any attachment at all) to the Rays. Many transplants who move here already have a favorite MLB team from the location they moved from.

[@eduardo8652]

Similarly, I know of a lot of older fans that were fans of other teams before the rays were a team. And, they’re die hard Lightning and Bucs fans. It’s a shame how hard it is to get loyal fans around here. But ultimately as everyone has already said, the trop is in a horrible location. If they moved to actual Tampa, there’d be so many benefits. Too bad the owners are cheap fucks.

[@heinz-haraldfrentzen1261]

Two arguments why baseball struggles in Florida. First, where it (baseball)is very popular, it's played outside, and for the most part, comfortable weather. In the northeast, people have been couped up in their homes in the winter, and when good weather finally arrives, they want to get outside, and baseball outdoors provides that. When the weather starts to cool down, attendance up north is good because people know this will be their last few times they can get out before weather make it rough. In Florida, the summer weather is brutal, even at night, and being outside is not enjoyable, and a domed stadium cant replicate the outdoors. The second argument is that Florida lacks business with the resources to afford season tickets as a company perk. In many cities up north, where companies are headquartered. Season tickets are available for clients and staff to use. Small businesses in Florida don't have that kind of revenue to afford an option like that. Combine that particularly in the Tampa Bay area, the overall income levels of individuals and companies makes it difficult for fans to afford a full year of tickets, parking, concessions, etc.

[@RYMAN1321]

Hold up. The roofs for the Marlins and Rays make sense though, as the weather can get horrible in Florida. The roof also prevents weather delays / issues. And for the Marlins, it’s not like they haven’t had success. Winning two World Series in their first 10 years is a massive accomplishment. If you wanna look at a failed baseball city, the Montreal Expos were a prime example. Almost never had a successful season (one playoff appearance in 1981) and I hear their attendance and fanbase was never good either, especially after 1994 strike.

[@leo_wentzel]

The issue with any Florida team is the fact no one for the last 150 years has really been “from” Florida. Lived here my whole life but my family is from Pennsylvania so we’re Philly fans. It happens with every sport here, it’s why the Magic have never had insane traction either. Teams need to be really good for Floridians to like them. Florida for a while was known as a retirement state so it’s a bunch of out of staters, and the teams were never really good enough for the people here to want to root for them. On top of that, which I don’t see a lot of people realize, is that Florida is an entertainment state. In a lot of northern states if there isn’t a big organization’s team playing that week then they have nothing going on, but there’s always something here to do in Florida. So no one really cares enough to go to a sporting event

[@DIAC1987]

As a Dominican Floridian who is also a Rays fan (and used to be a Marlins fan, more on that later), I see this topic all the time and I always have to defend my fellow Floridians. So, here's the list of reasons why baseball "struggles" in Florida: Prologue) Its actually a misconception. The Rays draw pretty good TV/radio numbers, and the Marlins also draws in better-than-expected TV ratings. And don't get me started on how hype it is in South Florida during the World Baseball Classic and Caribbean Series. 1) Tropicana Field has needed replacing for over a decade, it was built in the 1980s, and its time for it to no longer represent a professional baseball team. The staffing is always great, the closed dome is something we can get used to especially in the summer, but the stadium itself is dated as hell. 2) Tropicana Field is in the worst part of St. Pete. If it were built by the Pier or by the beaches, even somewhere closer to Clearwater it would draw better numbers. However--- 3) Tampa is where the next stadium should be built, period. It is a mission and a half if you're living in between Lakeland and Winter Park to get to the stadium, the location is awful. If the Rays were to end up in Downtown, or Ybor City, or Citrus Park, or the Florida State Fairgrounds, or even by Busch Gardens, we'd see significantly stronger numbers. 4) Florida was first a Spring Training Baseball venue before a professional baseball venue, which means lots of transplants with their fanbases making their way down here. And since baseball is the professional sport that is arguably the most traditional and least-bandwagony, it results in many Yankees, Phillies, Mets, Cardinals, and even Pirates fans also dominating the spaces of Tampa Bay and South Florida. 5) Marlins Park is fully funded by the taxpayers thanks to a deal the ownership backed out on within a season of its opening. Little Havana remains eternally bitter about it. 6) Rays and ESPECIALLY the Marlins have had historically terrible and cheap ownership that refuses to spend, always trades and loses talented players, and is okay collecting profits while also expecting the fans to show up every year. Then Rays ownership infamously tried doing a split-season format by spending half the season in Montreal. Come on now. 7) Marlins and ESPECIALLY the Rays have historically done a terrible job having a consistent team, and also reaching out to further corners of Florida to try to draw in more fans. The market of Orlando is essentially ignored by the Rays even though we do have a lot of fans living in Central Florida. Hope this helps.

[@RayManzarekRocks]

The primary reason that the Rays drew less than 40,000 for two playoff games is because MLB catered to the big markets, surprise, surprise. Not only were their fans stuck with weekday afternoon games, but the times were announced less than 24 hours before the first pitch.

[@yadigzz]

I’m 30 years old. Back in the elementary/middle school days, everyone played baseball. South Florida loves baseball. But when we would ask friends what team they like they always would like an out of state team because their parents used to live there. Marlins do have fans, but they’re not die hard yet. Winning will draw incredible crowds but until then, it’ll be deserted. For evidence on this take, check the Florida Panthers. They are committed to winning and now they have the top attendance in the 2024 playoffs.

[@subicstationditosailor4053]

A rays game is 90% visiting team fans and 10% empty seats.

[@lanabreeze]

One of the issues why MLB doesn't work in Florida is due to the amount of minor league baseball available. With MLB you're fighting traffic, congestion, high ticket prices, overpriced concessions & overpriced parking. Why deal with that when you can go to a minor league game closer to home and see a game for less than $10.

[@briancain9486]

I’m a Yankees fan so I only go to Tropicana when the Yanks come to town. I think a lot of fans here are A. Not baseball fans B. Transplants. I went to preseason Yankees baseball game and it was sold out this year. I think relocating more to Tampa downtown area would be better I doubt it would be worth all the investment.

[@robreeto]

True, I live about 70 miles from the Giants, but I go to modesto nuts and stockton ports games because behind the plate tickets are $18 and beers are 5-7 a piece.

[@donellclemons2195]

Remember the days when people said soccer couldn’t work in Florida then Orlando city happened.

[@silentassasin-q8l]

And then Inter Miami and Lionel Messi

[@thevoid99]

@@silentassasin-q8l like that team is any good. the only reason they're in miami is because of david beckham who is really the definition of overrated. messi deserves to be in better teams.

[@Brad4083]

I live in Palm Beach County. I have been to three Marlins games. I enjoyed them, but I won't go again because driving down to Miami is not worth the effort. Besides, I can watch nearly every game on TV. Also, I'm still a fan of my team up north and feel no connection to the city of Miami. I think I'm typical of many people around here, even though I'm more of a baseball fan than 99% of them.

[@ramayala9713]

Florida's population and job markets just keeps growing, so MLB should want to have a team there. Here are my solutions for each team respectively: Rays: Better stadium, move to Orlando (more of a central location where citizens from all over the state can go see a game). Marlins: Build stronger community relationships with businesses, schools, and charities, and have a playoff caliber team. Both teams should have better public transportation as well, but the cities' politicians would need to obviously approve funding for this.

[@marclucas9701]

I like your take on this, in regard to the Marlins, my hometown team, some their food offerings at the ballpark probably aren't as good as they're made out to be.

[@wade_says]

As a Red Sox fan in FL, my first game was a Rays game. Half the crowd was Sox fans.

[@georgeleavitt4487]

I take vacation in Clearwater every year I’m from southern nh and Family is Sox season ticket holders, went to watch rays vs orioles to see how the trop is compared to Fenway and litalry nobody was there. Parking was like 15 and I looked in shock at the prices and the ticket guys like yeah it’s more expensive then last year and I said that would be 70 dollars at fenway

[@bconni2]

and what's your point.? to illustrate how amazing you guys are.?

[@michaelmarkowski204]

From CBS Sports: "New York Yankees team president Randy Levine criticized the Tampa Bay Rays and the Miami Marlins' reliance on receiving revenue sharing money from larger-market teams during a panel at Sportico's Invest in Sports conference. "A lot more focus has to be on individual teams to do better and not just rely on revenue sharing," Levine said, according to the Associated Press. "You can't have two Florida teams averaging 15,000 fans. You can't have it. You don't go into an NFL stadium or an NBA arena and see that. "And I think that there's been a dependency issue that's got to get better. ... The commissioner has done an incredible job, but now it's on individual teams. Instead of complaining and whining, 'We need more money,' you got to take some responsibility." I think I read somewhere a while back that the Rays and Marlins actually make a profit most years by keeping their team payroll low with the revenue sharing putting them in the black financially.

[@trancus11]

162 games. 81 home games. twice as much as NBA, NHL, and 9 times as much as the category killer, NFL.

[@stevenundisclosed6091]

I live in the Tampa area. I only really go to the Trop when the team I grew up rooting for comes to town.

[@dr.pendyke4887]

This is why in a nutshell, people will not change their allegiances when they move to Florida

[@RobertHarridge]

I live about an hour north of Tampa, and the Rays games are a pain to get to when compared to a Bucs game or a Lightning game, unless you are already in the area of the Trop. It seems like the residents of St. Pete dont really care much for going to games, and the people that would go to the games (Brandon, Temple Terrace, New Tampa, Carrollwood/Northdale, Wesley Chapel/Land O Lakes, Oldsmar) don't want to make that trek to the Trop. Now, I will say when I have gone to games at the Trop, the experience has been great. Comfortable seats. Sight lines are great, the concessions are nice, and I actually like being in the A/C, not getting burned up by the Florida sun. The other problem for Tampa is the minor league teams, which are in just about every town or neighborhood. Why go to a Rays game when the Clearwater Thrashers have a great park in a good location, or the Dunedin Blue Jays. As for Miami, its about having a really good team with star power. IMO, Miami sports fans are "fair weather" fans. Look at the Panthers. 4-5 years ago, nobody showed up for a game. They've added some star players and put a great product on the ice, and now people show up to Sunrise and sell out the place. Same thing for the Heat. Same for the Dolphins. If you don't put a good product out there, the fans don't show up in Miami.

[@Bredaxe]

They made a mistake not giving Orlando the team instead of Tampa and Miami. Orlando is a younger town, tons of tourism and it's overflowing with people moving here.

[@mayquelmiranda6282]

Young people nowadays don’t like baseball. I can’t talk about Tampa, but how does this guy expect people in Miami to support a franchise that doesn’t try to win how to expect fans to go spend their hard-earned money on a team that has a record of 6-23

[@Bredaxe]

@@mayquelmiranda6282 All that rise in ADHD makes baseballin hard for modern kids lol. Also, football seems to have won the marketing game, but kids don't understand how much more MLB players make and how much longer their careers can last.

[@johnkelly6925]

Peter Uberroth felt that Orlando was the right location for Florida's ONLY franchise.

[@excelsior27]

@@johnkelly6925 Don't forget Orlando SC in the MLS....

[@scotttardif763]

Orlando for MLB? Yeah,but you would probably locate it around Sand Lake Rd,right by Universal. They had minor league teams at Tinker Field and Disney. Can't see a downtown baseball venue,maybe Sand Lake/Dr.Phillips area,East Colonial or even tearing down the mall in Sanford.

[@davidherrington8859]

Don't forget a lot of people in florida grew up as Braves fans

[@rngfootball759]

Baseball works in Fenway but it's been away fans that have packed the place.

[@danieldavila6281]

I grew up in Miami Florida and lived here most of my life. Why can’t the Marlins fill up the stands? These are counties that have sellout crowds to the brim for the Dolphins and the Heat. The issue, first and foremost is location. Where the World Series with Yankees say 50,000 plus crowds. That stadium where the Orange Bowl once stood is not the place for a 7 pm game. Yes, it’s a dome and yes we can see a game without leaving at midnight due to rain. It should have been built right next to the Heat Arena (whatever they call it now?). Folks get out of work and walk over to the stadium to avoid traffic to get home at the same time and leave their cars in their regular spot. The other cause is the gutting of winning team and their owners. We get to contended levels or win the World Series to just see the teams gutted out. Hence, that “GM Derek Jeter.” That group flipped the team as many saw it, for 30 pieces of silver.

[@kj6446]

and yet both hockey teams have been fantastic lately...it's a head scratcher

[@sn0ipe333]

Management

[@xxKURTMANxx]

Local Rays fan here. Location location location. I live 30m from downtown Tampa and the stadium is an hour or so away A stadium actually in Tampa would help the most to me and everyone else I know into baseball. Needs to stay a dome for sure it’s too hot here most the year.

[@Ibhenriksen]

It's a combination of many things. It's the lower payroll, military bases therefore many people relocate every few years so it's hard for kids to grow up and build a fanbase, elderly retire here. They don't sign superstars to long term deals to create a large fanbase.

[@craigrohn9938]

What military bases? South Florida hasn't had any since Hurricane Andrew destroyed Homestead, and MacDill in Tampa is a VERY small portion of Tampa Bay's economy. The only major cities in America whose economies are very dependent on military installations being present, with major sports teams, are San Antonio and San Diego, you could even include Jacksonville in that grouping. The effect of MacDill PCS moves on Rays attendance is nonexistent.

[@shaindaman13]

The Rays MAKE players into stars. They’re the pitching factory of mlb

[@RayManzarekRocks]

What stars? The Rays have had among the lowest payrolls in the big leagues for decades.

[@Kris-bj4vj]

@@RayManzarekRocksGlasnow

[@RayManzarekRocks]

@@Kris-bj4vj Glasnow was highly talented but rarely healthy. In the biggest game of his life (2024 playoffs), he crapped the bed. Then when he was about to make big money, he was traded for younger, inexpensive players.

[@Rikirakka]

As far as marlins go. Previous owners killed off fandom. Every time they get good, they would chop it all up right after. Sliced n diced. Ppl got fed up, lost all trust. *insert bush’s fool me once/twice quote*

[@mayquelmiranda6282]

Finally, someone knows the real story

[@brianchevalier3557]

I'm from Tampa and lived here my whole life. I highly recommend anyone who has the chance read the book stadium for rent, it explains a lot. Here is the problem with Miami: 1. They've had 2 fire sales after winning world series. People can't trust the owners. 2. They tore down a legendary stadium still being used by UM football to build a stadium in an area that a lot of people don't want to be at night called little Havana. 3. Ozzy Guillen alienated a lot of fans with his horrible comments about castro. 4. No one liked when Jeter came in. 5. They traded away the best young prospect in their entire history under Jeter to his old team for peanuts. 6. They can't even keep young talent around long enough to be competitive like the rays. As for Tampa: 1. The location is awful, no one wants to go backwards after work from their home. People don't want to drive on one of 2 bridges at 10 pm on a weeknight (70% of games) for an hour or more if there's a wreck. 2. There's not much to do around the park, look at other successful parks like Colorado and Atlanta they have stuff around it. The rays and St. Pete only started pitching that idea of building up around the park 3 years ago. What a joke. 3. Its hard to cheer for a team when you only remember 2 or 3 names and only 1 or 2 last longer than 4 seasons. 4. Our owner keeps jerking us around. Anytime a good idea for a stadium comes around he makes crazy demands. In Downtown St. Pete he said we have 2 weeks until the election, you better vote yes or I'll move the team. They voted no. When Ybor came along everyone was on board and he said fine pay for all of it. Tampa said no, we will do what we did for the bucs and pay for 160 million. The rays said we can only do 150 million out of 800 Million take it or leave it. Tampa said, lets adjust the bucs money for inflation and offer 300 million. You pay 500 million. The Rays said we can only do 150 million and maybe another 150 if we get a good naming rights deal and deposits on suites and other money makers for 300 million out of 800 million. Tampa said let us do the math, we just had an election a month ago and funny how this plan came out after. The rays got impatient after 2 days of thinking and said we can't work with Tampa, we give up. It's St. Pete or bust. While constantly saying the first city to build us a stadium wins after. 5. Our owner try to force a duel city idea and told us we would split the team with Montreal if we built a 500 million open air stadium. Then told us well it wouldn't be 50/50 you would get them in April and Montreal would get them the rest of the year because its too hot in Tampa lol. 6. We have good TV numbers. At one point we were last in attendance, but 13th in TV viewership which is amazing considering we are one of the smaller markets. 7. MLB told St. Pete to build the dome and then screwed us over time and time again. So in the late 70s 2 groups emerged trying to bring baseball to the bay area. One in Tampa and one in St. Pete. Tampa wanted to find an owner first who would then build a stadium and even bought a few teams with low attendance to make it happen. Minn, Texas, and Oakland at all one point were partially owned by a Tampa Businessman, but every time MLB said we have to give a local owner a chance to emerge we can't have another Seattle debacle on our hands like we did with the piolets. Then it eventually came out that MLB was tired of teams moving and realized it was because they wouldn't give them enough time to build a fanbase. One rep even stating it takes 2 sometimes 3 generations to build a fanbase. While that was Going St. Pete got a hot tip from MLB saying look at every city that got a team, they either had an mlb stadium ready or had a AAA stadium they could use temporary. So St. Pete built the trop. Then they almost got the white sox, giants, and mariners to move. before getting new deals or new owners. We even got screwed in 93 when Miami who put together a last minute plan got the expansion bid over us who had been trying for years. So yeah Tampa needs a better location for the stadium and a little more time to build that fan base.

[@mikeweber5926]

My biggest problem with the Marlins is stadium location and player turnover. When the Marlins played at Joe Robbie stadium i would gonto about 15 games every year. Since moving to the new Stadium ive been to 6 games in the last 10 years.

[@F150XLTDAD]

This right here lol it was easier getting into the dolphins stadium than that atrocious location for the new ballpark parking sucks took over one hour and half to get into monster jam and we showed up way before it started terrible location

[@RayManzarekRocks]

The Rays will draw at least 2 million in the first season in their new ballpark, which looks to be very cool. The question is, how much longer can they continue to win 90-plus games/season in a division of high rollers and the rules stacked against them?

[@randylochtefeld2806]

Baseball and golf work great for business entertainment because of the natural breaks in the sport.

[@SladeBling]

I've lived in the southern part of Florida twice. It's a little hard to describe, the population has doubled in 30 years every time you go somewhere it's pretty much a hassle, tons of traffic, always waiting in line at the store, etc. To get someone to go watch a baseball game is a tall order, you better have star players and a competitive team and still, people might choose to stay at home and either watch the game on TV or Netflix something else. I remember a long drive from South Miami to the north of Florida, Tallahassee. Filling up for gas in Tallahassee was like living in a whole new world, so peaceful and room to breathe for once. The thing is, a really nice place with nice weather will cause too many people to come and ruin everything.

[@jakecosenza69]

It's also a case of south florida not being designed for growth. Very little public transit, sprawling low density areas. Recipe for congestion, traffic and an overall hassle to move around the region.

[@jackthemakerguy8223]

I went to the Tiger's Baseball game once in Flordia. But part of my leg got sunburned.

[@jmes4852]

Not in St Pete lol

[@abrandenburg10]

The Trop is the worst stadium in North America and the fact they are going to double down on another stadium in St. Petersburg is insane

[@alexlim1275]

they need to move to fair grounds.

[@flatbushbk648]

Oakland is worse and the area around the Oakland A's ballpark is sketchy and pretty bad

[@alexlim1275]

@@flatbushbk648 that why they want to move. LOL

[@xjr.0]

@@flatbushbk648 When you go to A's games, you don't really go in the bad area. You either take BART or drive into the lot. It is very safe inside the stadium and in the lot. You don't have to spend any time in the neighborhood, since it's right off the freeway.

[@johnp8355]

Florida Man is too busy to go to a baseball game.😂

[@kirk2767]

People up North romanticize Summer. In the South, it's something to just be endured. That's it.

[@91_C4_FL]

It’s a location and ownership problem with the Rays. There’s lots of hockey transplants here to and the Lightning still have a dominant fan base. I’d go to games more if they were in Tampa/Ybor. But I still care. I watch them on TV and I just bought some city connect merch.

[@Unknown_Ooh]

The new ray's stadium isn't ever happening 😂

[@jtfritz9169]

Some of the best baseball players are from Florida. It could work, they just need to find better situations. Same with hockey in Arizona. It definitely can work. The best player in hockey right now is from Arizona. The Coyotes old arena is way out in the middle of nowhere in Glendale, and a better location will help, and people will show up to the Coyotes games.

[@stuckintb]

The Trop is located in literally the worst area ever. Parking is in the backyards of people's houses. You cannot park at the stadium unless you basically play for the team. Everyone who goes loves going but says the same thing every time.... Getting here and home sucks.

[@99somerville]

There is demand for baseball in FL. Spring Training, high school, and minor league games draw. Too much else to do and MLB price’s don’t appeal to retirees. A new stadium attracting fans is a fallacy. The Mets have never drawn as well as they did at Shea Stadium.

[@BilCook]

Blue Wahoos stadium capacity is 5028 and average 4250 a game and draw about the same as the IceFlyers hockey team per game in a year both teams made the playoffs. Maybe MLB at MLB prices don't work, but MiLB sure does

[@fredh.1255]

The real problem is that Tropicana Field is in a horrendous location on the way to nowhere. The stadium is bland and outdated. On the positive side, it is clean and comfortable. They need a new stadium in the downtown area off I4 or I275 or perhaps near the fairgrounds. They will draw much better getting people from Orlando and up and down I75.

[@TheSwanlake2009]

I'm surprised to learn that Pittsburgh does not have a basketball NBA team!

[@ManChan-w5p]

You had the fish that saved Pittsburgh.

[@AidenAlias]

As someone just getting into MLB. move the rays to Orlando and I'll go to a game. Tampa is a terrible location in general.

[@tyandbrand]

A lot of transplants. Crossing that bridge is just a nightmare too with traffic etc. The Rays should be relocated. Miami is stuck.

[@KlingonCaptain]

Speaking for myself, I spent so many years living in Florida rooting for the Atlanta Braves (my whole childhood) that by the time Florida had a team, I just didn't care. I still root for the Braves. I'll drive the six plus hours to go see the Braves before I'll go see the Rays or Marlins. Everyone I know in Florida are Braves fans.

[@AndyGarcia-ch1ci]

Most Floridians are braves fans. I am one of them too. The irony is that braves games are blacked out when we play the rays or Marlins. Go braves!!!! 🔥🔥🔥

[@bobes91]

1. Move rays to Tampa/Ybor City

[@RayManzarekRocks]

Un, one problem -- Tampa wants no part of MLB. It has never stepped up with a reasonable plan for the Rays there.

[@bobes91]

@@RayManzarekRocks that is very true

[@Orlando_Steve]

That would make sense. You could draw from Orlando, and especially the visiting tourists at Disney 60 miles up I-4.

[@bobes91]

@@Orlando_Steve not just Orlando but also people from the space coast would be more willing to drive to tampa rather then St. Pete

[@RayManzarekRocks]

@@Orlando_Steve Great. Now all you need are 75 acres and $1.5 billion . . .

[@Kenadams240]

I think Orlando might be able to support a baseball team if the stadium is built in the tourist district/International Drive area.

[@lancetheb.m.c]

IMHO: I do not think it is a Team problem, but a Baseball problem. For Florida, it is know for Spring Training and only that(Arizona has the same issue). Nobody really care about Pro sports there unless it is the Dolphins, or you win a lot over a long extended period of time .......

[@sethland]

If we were to stereotype the Florida demographics and economy, it would skew toward retirees, transplants, and tourism. We’ve already talked about retirees and transplants having sports ties elsewhere. But for a significant amount of jobs related to retirement or tourism are in hospitality and services. When do those workers have to work? Correct, they often have to work nights and weekends. It doesn’t make a lot of sense when many people don’t have regular 9-5 jobs. For that reason I’m skeptical of the As in Las Vegas. There is a lot of white collar work moving to Florida, but it’s still relatively new and will take some time for that culture to demographically set in (if it ever will).

[@tashaem1]

Baseball is too slow. Floridians can sit outside at the park/beach and vege out for free without paying for $50 tickets.

[@michaelk9284]

Actually baseball is not slow.The reason that seems that way is because there's no clock to count it down.Football games take away more time to play

[@michaelmarkowski204]

If I lived in Florida, I wouldn't go to Rays or Marlins games either - I like open-air outdoor stadiums. I'll go to a few Jays games at Rogers Centre during the warmer weather months provided there's no threat of rain so that the roof will be open. Given the humidity and rain in Florida during the summer months, it's not a good baseball environment. Should've just stuck with spring training games only in Florida, then teams head north in April before the bad weather season hits.

[@datdudecollins]

What do you think Spring Training has to do with the poor attendance?

[@Jaybones2323]

Problem with the marlins is the owners suck. They refuse to put a good team together and when the off chance they do they blow it up the next year. Owners are happy collecting revenue sharing and not investing in the team

[@thomasb.smithjr.8401]

Florida is a football state, not a baseball state. Peewee, prep school, college, pro. This is the land of the 'Canes, Gators, 'Noles, 'Bucs, 'Fins. Schnellenberger, Bowden, Spurrier/Meyer, Brady, McKay, Marino/Shula. 2LiveCrew, Tim Tebow, Wide Right I, II, III. The Orange Bowl, The Swamp, The Brickyard. Oliver Stone's Any Given Sunday. Magic Mike & The Stripper's Strip to the horizon outside Tampa Bay stadium. Need I say more ? 🏈🏉🏈🏉🏈🏉🏈🏉

[@jorgeponce5512]

2023 WBC was a HUGE success in Miami.

[@James_Ford4815]

like clockwork owner being cheap and making the wrong move of staying in st.pete where it clearly doesn't work. quite being cheap and just finally move to tampa bay.

[@roadgeek1961]

The area is mostly transplants usually from the North East or Midwest. Tickets range from 10 to 200 dollars, parking 20 maybe. Concession easily 20 plus . I enjoy Rays Games. But staying till the end fighting to get out of the parking lot. For me with a 6 AM start time for work it easier to watch on TV and the 9th inning is over go to bed. An WWE was held at the trop and it was sold out. The Lightning and Bucs have good Attendance.

[@jjthebeerman]

1. Get rid of the damn roof at the Trop, renovate the entire exterior. 2. Bring back some of the features that made LoanDepot park great. 3. Build that stadium in Tampa or Ybor City.

[@jmes4852]

No one wants to drive to st pete on the HFB in traffic. You either leave early as shit or drive all the way around, then sit at the park for 3 hours and drive back another hr and a half.

[@xkaokdkl11933]

Get rained out all season. Seems smart

[@liljjbo17]

Also missing the part where the Rays owner has almost completely lost the support of local fans you can blame "location" the fact of the matter is the location is much easier to access then where the Lightning or Bucs play. When the owner of the team spends the better part of a decade and a half fielding bad teams trading his best players and trying to strongarm the city/region and its fanbase for a new stadium by any means possible including threat of total relocation. People want the team they dont want a shitty owner who tries to bully everyone he can anyway he can.

[@platinumspike9578]

Biggest problem I see as a Florida resident is that both teams are in poorly located cities. As great as having baseball in coastal cities is great, Florida is one of the few that demands and more inland structure to protect against potential inclement severe weather. Miami and especially Tampe are both in zones very prone to hurricanes. This, on top of the dismal highway systems entering both cities, discourages most Floridians for actively participating in the sport. My proposition would be to relocate both teams, one to Orlando and another to Jaxonville/Tallahasse. Instead of East/West coast, do a North/South dispersion to accommodate more of the state. Both of these cities also have better road networks to relieve congestion and significantly better public transit. Orlando is an hour away from highly developed areas like Tampa and the Space Coast and has a direct connection to Miami with the new Brightline rail. Tallahassee/Jaxonville simply opens up the deep southern market to MLB while staying in Florida. A close rival to the Braves provides good TV and it can draw from Alabama and potentially Mississippi. EDIT: Miami also doesn’t hold sports teams very well with the Dolphins regularly holding low attendance and, well, the Marlins are the the Marlins. The Heat is probably all they need.

[@nix0737]

Too many people here to rely on highway alone, there’s just not enough space. Areas this densely populated have much different urban transportation for a reason. But as you just said, it’s hard to build any infrastructure in a coastal zone that’s prone to major storms every year. Nonetheless, it’s suffocated with car dependency, when there’s not even enough room for it to be.

[@silverct9a]

Dolphins low attendance? When’s the last time you been to a Miami Dolphins game? 🤨 In regards to the Marlins, management refuses to spend, has no decent farm system, burnt the local fan base etc Oh and the loanDepot Park has a retractable roof, inclement weather is simply not an issue…the inferior product on the field is.

[@cristiandiaz6333]

Florida, North Carolina, Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina, Louisiana, and Texas are states huge in sports. Most people can be entertained by all kinds of sports in those states year around for less than what they would pay for watching in-person a professional sport event. With the exception of Texas, the south and the south west values american football way more, followed by basketball. Football is huge in Florida. Florida has great football at the high school and college levels. That is where regular people put their money into.

[@chriswahl4139]

Marlins have had like six or seven fire sales

[@RayManzarekRocks]

Look around, dude. There are empty seats everywhere. Like I've said for years, MLB works in major markets. Almost everywhere else, it sucks. As long as there's no salary cap with a floor and ceiling, MLB will continue to be little more than background noise.

[@hockey9006]

Let’s see two hockey teams in playoffs, NBA in Miami, school still going on and traffic. Baseball been fine for over 20 years in Florida. What awful info in video and not knowing the markets talking about!!

[@Rich-l7b]

When Tampa doesn't sell out playoff games there is a problem. Marlins just suck as a franchise

[@frankiecastelloncaps]

DG, I hope you and your followers read this long comment as I have experience this hands on. The issue is a combination of location, marketing especially, greed in baseball, and the state of Florida itself. I can explain... As a former resident of the Tampa Bay Area and visited Miami a few times for 14 years and is a avid baseball fan. Location: Both the Rays and Marlins are in not so great locations. You have one in the Gas Light District in downtown St. Petersburg away from what is happening that is populated both in St. Pete and especially Tampa. Reason why I say this, if they proceeded with the Al Lang Stadium project in 2008, it would have made a big difference. Also if located in downtown Tampa where the Lightning play, it would have driven numbers. Where it is right now not the best neighborhood at night if there is not a ballgame. I wouldn't be caught dead there, it is truly the hood. Trust me. The other is in Little Havana, not the Tourist part of it. An actual residential neighborhood that didn't want the team there first off. Didn't even want to pay for the ballpark for that matter. They did have the Orange Bowl ever since I think 1936 or 1937, the neighborhood wasn't really developing in that time frame so that was a landmark for the neighborhood, but when this construction came into play. The pitch was from David Samson was to the City of Miami is how can we compete with the rest of MLB baseball. The City of Miami fell for it and paid majority of the construction of the Stadium. The neighborhood is completely different and having a ballpark in a residential area is not very appealing in my opinion, this is in the wake of downtown and ballpark districts. The ballpark should have been in a more attractive area that has hotels restaurants, retail, etc. Crime is the same issue in both Miami and St. Petersburg, not the safest area at night. If they had better locations with more attractive surroundings, possibly would make a profit, as you can see, they are hemonogging money, even though they are not showing their books, I really think they are not turning a profit in ticket sales but in RSN TV deals only, which leads to my next point. Marketing: I now live in Greenville, South Carolina and the territory for marketing for baseball for MLB is the Atlanta Braves and it can be debated their will be demand if a second MLB team, either expansion or relocation, would make a buzz and will sell tickets and create a following in this part of the country. In Florida, marketing is not really a priority. If you are not in these areas, you wouldn't even know there is a baseball team. Why are the Buccaneers and Dolphins popular? The marketing. Why are the Lightning and Panthers popular? Both marketing and winning made them known. With proper investments in marketing to attract not only a local audience, maybe a state audience, or even a regional audience. You want people to see the product on the field, create buzz, create a following. Remember both teams are around 30 years old and doesn't really have much history, especially in a small market. Investment in marketing creating a team that people want to see and even in player development, create stars, not just fire sale them. Which brings me to the next point. Greed: Remember majority business owners, billionaires and wealthy CEOs will pay very little to make a business profit and find any way to make a buck with the minimum investment possible. Look at the Oakland A's owner John Fisher, he is the prime example on how an MLB owner is. With the exception of a few owners that pay Luxury Taxes in addition to their ball clubs payroll. They will invest very little in developmental and once they are valued at a high price they will send them away to a bigger market franchise. We have seen this too many times in sports, but baseball is a prime example of it. Also it is very expensive to go to the game anyway. You have to pay big for parking, food, tickets, merchandise for the experience of a ballpark. Do you see ballparks becoming lesser and lesser in capcity? It's more 35,000 seats than 50,000 seats close to 25 years ago. People would rather spend that money at Disney World, Busch Gardens, Universal, etc and for even cheaper the beach. The greed on these owners are impossible to please and want to make a dividend whatever is necessary. That's how the rich stay rich, in addition that baseball as much as I love the sport growing up, it's dying. It has been dying for the last 15 years with the rise of social media, the end of RSNs and cable TV in itself. You have to either have a sports package, which is more money, if wanting out of market teams, it cost what $30 a month, or maybe $160 a year! You want to appeal to a new audience, not scare them away with their wallets! You have to make it more affordable and more accessible for MLB games to be popular. That's owners main source of income, advertising and TV deals. The paying minimum investment and making a return big is a way to make more for less. It's not all teams, let me be clear. Now the last point. Florida: In Florida, years ago baseball was King with Spring Training and the Florida State League for almost 100 years. Now even the minor leagues you barely get a minivan group of kids to go to a minor league stadium in Florida. Meanwhile in other states, minor leagues are a spectacle for each town that draws tickets. In Greenville, SC Asheville NC, and soon Spartanburg SC, it's very popular and affordable, and people enjoy the games. The marketing is king throughout the local minor league areas throughout the United States, why not Florida? It's a tourist destination for starters. Out of towners and snowbirds will come. Spring Training is full of them and a lot are loyal to traditional teams. The Yankees, Red Sox, and Mets are prime examples of that. That's how baseball has been popular so why a new rooted baseball team? It didn't work as I witnessed. Why did Hockey, Football, and Basketball work? It's because they are new professional sports to the area? Football has a following even in college and that sports growing success will keep going. Basketball was very new and only had 2 teams in the last 35 years and it drew success because of how rare it is, same as hockey. They market their product and invest into their product and made it a spectacle for new sports to come to the Sunshine State. Look at all the stars they have in basketball from Shaquille O'Neal to LeBron James. Hockey stars grew in Florida and the current owners made it successful to watch and it is marketable. Florida doesn't do that to a dying sport, with so much to offer in Florida, baseball is not priority. In addition to that, Governor Ron DeSantis also refuses to have state taxes which is majority of the tourism income goes too, will go to major league stadiums. So trying to pitch a public funded baseball stadium is by far a next to no at this point. Is the Rays at risk to relocate, yes. That's why it's going to be on the 11th hour this year if they get city money to build that stadium, but they will ask to Sternburg. Is it worth the 1.3 billion dollars? I was in support of the Rays in Tampa Bay when I lived there and even became a fan despite being a Yankee-rooted fan. Now that I spent 10 years out and seeing from the outside in, how they are doing, they are a great team to watch! I love them, but with all these issues I stated both in concern for both the Marlins and Rays. Those are the big problems. In other words, Manfred MAKE BASEBALL AFFORDABLE and MARKETABLE AGAIN! No Pun intended, stop focusing on the owners needs and focus on the fans needs, the loyal one, in addition to marketing to the Gen Z and Alpha demographic. If you read this, did you agree with me? If not, why?

[@devinfleet1834]

They gotta build the new Park next to the Buccs stadium and turn the area into a sports village. Theres 0 draw to St Petes regardless if the team is good or if they get a new stadium

[@Anonymous79379]

The rays have great TV ratings and there are lots of fans but they are mostly in Tampa not St.Pete and most don’t want to drive the distance. If the owner would spend some money to put the new stadium in Tampa things would change

[@ivandragomiloff2356]

I think this is a hint that baseball won’t work in Las Vegas either. Lots of transplants and a transient population. Too many other diversions.

[@greg33770]

I can only speak for myself, I'm a senior on a fixed income, I don't spend to go to pro-sports games anymore, nor do I spend to concerts, etc.....have to be very frugal these days !

[@lukaoleux4402]

Florida is a state full of transplants that root for other teams. Back during the Tom Brady era I saw more Patriots and Red Sox attire than anything local in Florida. Also the Rays branding is horrible, ugly logo, they need new branding entirely, maybe even new colors entirely. Bad location too.

[@jmes4852]

This is true, family is from Michigan, big tiger fan, but I'm a bigger Buccaneer fan. Why? Because games are very close , they actually have HoFers and sign big names that you want to see and they try and be apart of the community. As far as I'm concerned, the Rays do not do anything big in Tampa, maybe in St Pete but no one cares about St Pete.

[@GodsWarrior33]

I think that in the Tampa area most like the idea of having baseball available to them when they feel like watching it. That’s why spring training worked there. They knew they had a limited time. Now they come and go as they please and think it will always be there for when they feel like watching.

[@jondelmore3163]

The Trop is built in the wrong city. Attendance wouldnt be a problem for the Rays if they played in downtown Tampa. The Marlins have always had a problem with ownership. Every time they won a World Series, their owner always sells off the team and they always seem to shoot themselves in the foot with the front office. Bad front office and refusal to spend money on big name players makes no fans come, no fans in the building leads to financial issues for the team, and the cycle repeats.

[@justinmiller5660]

we call that a "death spiral". the panthers had that until they got an owner that said spend to the cap and make a good team.

[@eduardo8652]

I’d say the rays are far worse at doing this develop and dump thing. But might just be more exposure to it. It’s ridiculous how many players the rays have developed and shipped off because they don’t want to pay them. It’s genuinely embarrassing at times and very depressing

[@digitalchaosjr]

For the marlins, it’s a team problem. Look at the panthers they started winning and people started showing up

[@johnnymfbravo7163]

I live in Florida about 30 miles from the ball park. The problem is that a vast majority of people that go to games come from way north of Miami. They built the stadium near a population center, thinking that is where the crowd will come from, but no one in Miami actually goes to the games, same thing applies to the Dolphins. The fans at the games come from North Broward and Palm Beach counties, not Miami. Their mistake is where they built the stadiums... far away from where the real fans are.

[@vincentv1432]

This! Most of the fan base is in Broward and Palm Beach and I'm not driving to Miami in rush hour traffic. Ownership is horrible and they have no desire to win just collect their profit sharing money and sell the team in 10 years for a hefty profit.

[@RayManzarekRocks]

The Rays don't own their market. They share it with seven other teams that train in the area every spring. Each has a fairly small but loyal fan base comprised of transplants there. Remove them, and Rays attendance creases by 30-35 percent.

[@curtis1997]

There are so many other things to do, why pay inflated prices to watch millionaires throw around a ball.

[@allglorytogod12]

I'd bet there are more Braves fans in FL than TB and Miami combined.

[@patrick9865]

I was one. It took a long time for me to give up my Braves fandom. Spending your whole childhood watching TBS will do that to you. I finally did in the late 90s, but Atlanta is still easily my 2nd favorite team.

[@devinmathews7809]

It's baseball. The WWE sold tix well at Tropicana field...

[@frankiecastelloncaps]

Agreed, sold out btw

[@jmes4852]

That's different. That's a once a year thing and people will drive to see it . Going to 82 games is a whole different thing. Though I do agree the spirt has something to do with it.

[@perceivedvelocity9914]

That's comparing apples and oranges.

[@frankiecastelloncaps]

@@perceivedvelocity9914 @jmes4852 I'm going to write a big comment on this topic, be on the lookout.

[@Rich-l7b]

That's because WWE is an event {f you don't go then You don't know when they'll come back. Was it the Amalie Arena or the Trop