Why don't PS Power Plants have balanced outputs?

This viewer has heard that balanced AC power is best but wants to know why PS Audio Power Plant AC regenerators don't use balanced power. Have a question you want to ask Paul? www.psaudio.com...
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[@Pentium100MHz]

Switching power supplies (at least the non-PFC ones) can run on anything, including square wave and DC. The PFC ones are more picky about the power and may not run from a regular diesel generator (the voltage and frequency varies too much).

[@corvette820]

What is the reasoning behind your statement “Switching PSUs are happier without balanced power”…? Is there any technical reason for saying so…? I use balanced power for all my stuff here, projector and other SMPS and they all work so far…

[@poserwanabe]

if you connect a piece of equipment with neutral tied to the chassis internally to a "balanced power feed" what prevents the chassis from becoming hot ?? +/- 60vac ??

[@LuXifR]

you don't, because the chassis is not tied to neutral but to ground edit: because if it was tied to neutral, what prevents you from turning around the wall plug and then have the phase on the chassis?

[@poserwanabe]

@@LuXifR well first off we have polarized plugs that can't be turned around, but I'm pretty certain when I get my meter out and start checking all the gear I have in my shop, I'll find continuity from chassis to neutral, I hope you're right though 😁 not on all, but I'll bet some do

[@poserwanabe]

@@LuXifR I just thought of something else ( I might be wrong) but I'm pretty sure balanced AC single phase is illegal in residential per NEC..

[@LuXifR]

@@poserwanabe oh, I wasn't aware that polarized plugs exist. Does that mean you don't have a separate, dedicated ground? :-O

[@poserwanabe]

@@LuXifR yeah they're either 3 prong or polarized 2 prong here in the USA..and 120vac which I'm sure you know...😁

[@mornecoetzee735]

I don't think the P5 falls in that category of balanced. Was sold up untill last year.

[@robertkeefer7791]

I use power conditioners for my hair.

[@arko926]

Do a video about the new music room!

[@milenedejong1400]

so basically with your power solution we can make any a/b amp a d amp ... your powersolution provides on the fly power for the connected amp ? is it just me or ....

[@alakani]

That would be class G/H not D, but this would still work differently than that. Better/worse? No idea, put a scope on it

[@gotham61]

I had a Bryston B100 integrated amp that simply wouldn't turn on with a balanced power feed.

[@markfischer3626]

The problem with what is referred to here as balanced power which means neither conductor is grounded is that it is a violation of the National Electrical Code article 250 which deals with grounding. A power regenerator falls into a category of "a separately derived source." Generally for this type of equipment the source ground from the wall outlet would be connected to one of the output wires. An ungrounded output would not get a UL listing and the output could float dangerously. This neutral wire is referred to in the code as the grounded conductor. The separately derived source in this type of device must be grounded at one and only one place. For a delta wye transformer in a commercial or industrial building I prefer to ground the neutral at the transformer although the code allow it to be grounded at the first panel. Your house if you live in the US comes from a single phase transformer 240 volt circuit with a center tap which is the neutral. This neutral is grounded at the entrance to your house. Following the code can be a matter of life and death. A shielded power cord has to be UL listed for this purpose. Wire of a specific gage is rated for maximum ampacity based on being installed in free air at no more than 86 degrees F unless specifically designed as shielded. The problem with making your own shield is that it restricts the ability of the wire to dissipate heat. Wire such as MC or BX that is shielded takes this into account.

[@Tubetinkerer]

And yet another engineering flaw in Paul's hi-end audio snake oil seasoning..... @Paul... the right answer, of coarse, should have been : "We don't have a choice. Safety regulations force us".

[@andydelle4509]

There is an exception in the NEC for balanced power. Article 647. It allows balanced 60v-0-60v installations under certain conditions, one of which does ban it from residential use. Much of this research goes to Martin Glassband of Equitec. He is the one who got this NEC accepted. Balanced power is not snake oil. It works on well known electrical principals. But it is not very effective, around 10db of practical CMR reduction. Still some recording studios will take that 10db over nothing. It is a gorunded circuit in that the ground must still be tied back to the service ground. Basically it is no different than a residential 240v circuit. Just half the voltage. So in essence everyone's 240v home HVAC condenser, electric range and water heater is running on balanced power!

[@markfischer3626]

@@andydelle4509 that is correct. Generally 3 phase motor circuits do not have a grounded conductor but they must run a frame ground. We used to ground those circuits. There was red leg delta where a center tap of one leg was grounded and there was corner grounding of one conductor of a delta circuit but no more. In the US 240 volt residential appliances don't have a neutral wire unless they need one such as for a control circuit. But I think in this case one conductor must be grounded. I'll check your reference to see what I make of it. It still seems to fall into the category of a separately derived source under article 250.

[@andydelle4509]

@@markfischer3626 Once you ground one of the hot legs of a transformer, it's no longer a balanced circuit. Plus in the case of a balanced transformer, the center tap is grounded so also grounding one side would be a 60v to ground short. In a 120v balanced system both legs are 60v to ground. NEC 647 just tell what is allowed. A much better explanation is on the Equitech site which does go through the NEC acceptance process in one of their papers. Note: I do not work for Equitech and never did.

[@markfischer3626]

@@andydelle4509 Would you need a GFCI breaker? AFCI? Correct again about grounding one leg results in a circuit that is not balanced. Did the code chsnge? If it did what year was it?

[@shintsu01]

hmmm, I am interested maybe in getting a regenerator. Had a quick look at the site but for me, it's not really clear if the P12 would be enough or if I should pick the P15 also I could not find a reseller in the Netherlands that provides pricing at least for my country at least this site gives a 404 on the pricing page www.psaudio.nl/

[@mariosupa4027]

Hi Paul hope you're doing well today. I didn't hear back from you on my question on BorderPatrol SE DAC described as musical or analog and the DirectStream being precise and analytical. My two questions today are what TT is that on the rack in the background and what brand rack is that ? Thanks in advance.

[@barbecuetechtips6024]

I've got a p500 power plant with a slight buzz. Will you guys be making new power plants in the future?

[@carstenjunge1327]

If the short circuit power level is high enough in your installation, drawing current does not impact the voltage.......

[@Paulmcgowanpsaudio]

Nice if that were true but unfortunately there are hundreds of feet of wire between the user and the transformer and that wire has a DCR that causes the voltage to drop with demand on dynamic music. Easy to see with a scope.

[@carstenjunge1327]

@@Paulmcgowanpsaudio So what is the power quality coming from your power plant products?

[@Paulmcgowanpsaudio]

@@carstenjunge1327 Distortion is below 0.1% THD, so the shape is perfect. Regulation is within 1/10th of a volt under any load condition within the unit's range. Peak current delivery exceeds 70 amps.

[@andydelle4509]

True, but it all depends on how much of a drop on the amp DC rails. That's what counts as the power amp does have buffer capacitors. As does the PS PowerPlant so it can't produce power that isn't there to begin with. It can only store it to the extent of it's internal reservoir capacitance. It can work as long as the power plant can ride out the voltage sag. It just depends on how severe a voltage drop problem you have. The Jury is out on if these re-generators do make a positive sonic improvement in a typical residence with average power quality. Also keep in mind that if the power supply in your amp is inadequate, no re-generator or power conditioner of any type is going to fix that.

[@carstenjunge1327]

@@andydelle4509 Every utility has voltage quality standards to comply with as part of their security of supply obligations, if they do not, we have to start there. Secondly any decent producer of consumer electronics should design his products to work with the voltage quality that these standards guarantee, better quality ought not to be necessary. Whether the reality looks like that is then up for discussion. I guess the real question is what supply quality hifi equipment really needs to perform to its best and whether a decent UPS could be an alternative?

[@luomoalto]

The P5? Did you mean the Power Plant Premier?

[@RectifiedMetals]

I beg to differ, as I have measured it myself. A Furman that is not over taxed can regulate dynamic AC voltages quite well. Most people push them to their limits. I do agree balanced AC can't run some sources produced today.