Why Elden Ring Shadow of the Erdtree FEELS more Difficult than it Really is

[@l0rd_breeigo-sama954]

Honestly i Think half of the player base have forgotten how learning new moves from both weapons and enemies feels.

[@redline841]

People get pissed when they get "perfected" by a boss that nukes your health.

[@gymislife144]

Fr

[@Majoraspersona]

I would love learning the enemies if I wasn't getting launched to the loading screen every 2 seconds

[@eclipzex77]

​@@Majoraspersona I did like this with Mesmer, but only because it took me like 10 seconds to reenter the fog gate after dying. Every time I got in more damage I felt like "You may have killed me now, but your life's getting shorter and shorter lanky boi!"

[@calamityhex3729]

I just think it's a little ridiculous being in the thickest armor with 99 vigor and I can get two tapped and In some cases one shot by these bosses. And couple that with the bosses combos and movesets it makes it very hard to learn

[@akoicarp]

They've simply changed their philosophy. They were content before for certain exceptional players to "solve" their games and excel, dominate, and otherwise exploit every option available, knowing that the vast majority - as you put it - were still climbing the mountain using the old tools. They've since opened Pandora's box and are now attempting to shove their own world back into its cage. Players had access to high, sustained DPS? Bosses now have 1-2 second openings. Players have access to long range damage options and can disengage freely to heal? Bosses now have instant, relentless gap closers. Players could stun-lock a superboss into submission? Bosses now shrug off all but the most over-tuned poise strategies. The problem is that this doesn't incentivize a new way to climb the mountain, it simply narrows options to, as you say, the rocket boots. If you only have one second to attack during an opening, of course you're going to do a jumping, power-stanced dual katana hit. If boss health has been inflated to silly proportions, of course you're going to rely on %damage through bleed and frostbite. In sum: why should I want to follow the old rules if the bosses are playing by a new set? It's an arms race - and you can't win an arms race against the very people you want to play your game. Anyway, a well-reasoned, thought-provoking video. I also think this DLC is a rousing success overall, even if I think it's also exactly emblematic of why we're reaching the end of Elden Ring's potential in its current form. I firmly believe they could ameliorate a lot of these problems in future design iterations, but it would take a re-imagining of "the rules" as we know them. Great review, Mug.

[@sunnyta1990]

I think they need to remove OP strategies and have the bosses match. Bloodborne was limited in its tools but it had way better balancing

[@akoicarp]

@@sunnyta1990 What would you remove? How do you un-open Pandora's box without essentially making it a different game entirely?

[@Orciwan548]

Ehh I kinda agree but I also like that they are pushing the limits. Sure some of these bosses are a little too fast for this game but imagine them as a test for a blood borne2 or something. Fromsoft have always tried new things in order to improve future ones and it’s part of why I like their games. Honestly I’m fine with the new bosses radahn is a bit insane but the rest all seem good. Flawed but it’s way better than almost every other game I’ve played recently and it’s a dlc.

[@isaacdayton4962]

@@sunnyta1990the game is fine as it is but any future games fromsoft makes can’t be like this and need significant changes

[@20thcentury_toy]

Lol no, git gud ​@@isaacdayton4962

[@robertpayne6781]

Asmon is a perfect example of creating his own frustration. Ignores all the tutorials, refuses to engage with the mechanics, refuses to adjust playstyle, then when the same thing that hasnt worked 100 times before he blames the game.

[@ReaverZiel]

The thing is that in itself is a game philosophy, me personally I don't like elden ring for this reason, I prefer when it's only a matter of skill, I don't like changing builds, I like the idea of mastering my preferred play style, theory crafting specific builds until I find my favorite and clear the game with It... Nioh 2 does this exceedingly well but elden ring instead is an "adapt, overcome" kind of game and that is fine for those who enjoy it, but not for me. For that reason my favorite fromsoft games are sekiro and dark souls 1

[@robertpayne6781]

@ReaverZiel I have never had to change my build to overcome any area or boss, aside from maybe swapping out some talismans. I really don't know where you are getting this idea from.

[@valentinvas6454]

@@ReaverZiel To be fair even Sekiro has its own problematic bosses like the Blazing Bull or Demon of Hatred. Most of the game teaches and prepares you for fighting other humanoid enemies that fight more or less similarly to you. Then there is the demon which is a huge monster with that goes against everything you've previously learned. Tons of AOE attacks, stomps, fire based projectiles etc.

[@yesmansam6686]

​@@ReaverZiel that's fine, but some builds inherently make some bosses harder. It's valid if you want to stick with your build, but you gotta accept that that will come with its own challenges. Blaming the game because you can't easily use the same strategy on every challenge is invalid. The tools to stand up to every challenge are there. It's up to you if you want to use them or not, but don't blame the game if you choose not to.

[@playmsbk]

​@@ReaverZiel I did change my build for malenia in my first playthrough. However, since then I have completed the game with over a dozen different builds with new characters and I'm pretty confident the game is beatable with any build, some much easier or much harder than others. The game is skill based, but also gives you the choice to lower that skill ceiling if you want. Asmon essentially refused to engage with the level progression system and then was upset he couldn't keep jump attacking the bosses, there was neither skill nor use of gameplay systems in this case.

[@masoneardley5690]

The reason the game floods you with upgrade materials is to address a criticism the base game had. Many people considered upgrade items so rare that they didn't feel free to experiment with weapons and builds. SOTE brought so many amazing new weapons spells and incantations that it's only logical from software wouldn't want you to be limited especially with how much the different bosses encourage different play styles. They are indirectly telling you to experiment.

[@TheRealMarvinGaye]

If they wanted us to experiment theyd let us have infinite larval tears, or an infinite source of ancient smithing stones. But those are very limited.

[@scoutswell]

Larval tears dude

[@leebweeb6008]

Nobody, NOBODY looked for the bell bearings that literally allow you to buy upgrades?

[@lumiverinightstar228]

By end game you should have all the bell bearings to achieve +24 and +9 without issue. Runes aren't an issue, upgrades are trivial. The only use any of those upgrade materials have is for those who want to challenge the dlc early or do a dlc only run. It's end game content....I should not be picking up smithing 3s halfway through the dlc.

[@Silverstar114]

Giving me 12 smithing stone 2s sounds nice until you realize you could get that by killing 8 cowering shadow guys and buying them from a bell bearing you get in liurnia

[@eddieford9373]

I tried the dlc on ng+3 and barely made it past the lion dancer. I restarted a fresh game, and it was much more manageable. I think that might be a reason why so many are having a hard time.

[@_Sevren_]

Yea. People need to clarify if they’re playing on ng+ or smthing. Cause I swear I’m going crazy looking at these videos and the bosses do no dmg to these guys

[@EmeralBookwise]

I think that's exactly what's going on here. With Dark Souls and Bloodborne the DLCs released much closer to the base games and so there were a lot more players who would have still only been in basic NG or maybe NG+1. With Elden Ring, however, it been over 2 years and there's got to be a lot more people who had long since progressed into higher, if not the highest NG+ cycles.

[@SageTigerStar]

Literally this. While I'm seeing all these people just vomiting the whole "JUST LOOK FOR SCADOO-FRAGZ DUMMY, GIT GUD", I came back to the game after a while on NG+2, started up the DLC (knowing about the blessing being necessary, not expecting to be god-tier at all), and struggled immensely with my gameplay. While watching folks do the DLC on a fresh save looked waaaaaay easier. Not only are they doing way more damage, but they're taking way less, even with less blessing than I have. I'm currently +13 blessing, and before this new patch, things were still 2-shotting me if I missed a dodge or parry window even from trash mobs, and those hits were staggering me and allowing them a free fast-combo to just annihilate me...while my own hits were doing like...1/10th of their health bar or less. I got through 2 bosses with very much effort and a friend being summoned in to help me (further increasing the bosses health, as bad as that is), I just wasn't seeing good numbers on my own.

[@ezaf5989]

@@EmeralBookwise cringe brony

[@KNGDDDE]

I did the exact opposite.

[@Chonus]

It's funny how the fingerprint shield can block everything in DLC with ease, It's by far the easiest way to win the attrition of resources.

[@shadowfoxspirit9]

@@Chonus It's amazing how people just don't use shields as much in this game unless it's to parry

[@ennayanne]

​@@shadowfoxspirit9the fire spitting shield is like my favourite weapon in the game

[@shadowfoxspirit9]

@@ennayanne mine is the coil shield and the eclipse crest greatshield

[@SeaHorseOfYoutube]

@@shadowfoxspirit9 The damage and poise break the coil shield pumps out in early game at just +1 is crazy, combos really well with the poison moth fly ash of war.

[@jorgea.2318]

​@@shadowfoxspirit9 Because is boring

[@lucasrodriguez8957]

If you like the last five bosses of ER, then you are going to love the DLC. If you hated the last 5 bosses of ER you are not going to like the DLC.

[@albeon81]

This

[@alastor8091]

I dont see the correlation. SOFTEs biggest problem is the shitty scaling system that makes you slog through the open world to get to the meat of the game. Sure the bosses are a bit too sweaty, but that's not the gripe I see.

[@JerryRiverman]

@@alastor8091 But that's the thing, the open world is the meat of the game. Sure I prefer the bosses and legacy dungeons aswell, but the open world is what sets this game apart from the previous souls games. (I do agree that the scaling system tied to pretty much collectibles isn't well executed)

[@ronthorn3]

@@alastor8091lol dude mad he played an open world game and cried about it being open world, I mean what tf did you expect.

[@pohlman1]

real af scaling on those bosses are all extremely intense and they are combined with crazy difficult movesets that are hard to learn. The dlc is just more of that and I love it, but some people don't.

[@candybetta4061]

💀nahh git gud But fr a lot of these issues were noticed in the final boss of the dlc. The openings are so tight that sometimes it feels like rng whether you can get in either a hit with a slower weapon or a heal with your flask. They've also got multiple "stall" attacks where you cant do anything and your buffs run out so its very rng heavy how much damage you can get in within that 60ish seconds that most buffs last. Theres also a lot of visual clutter and a cheap way of making everything harder which is on the ground aoe after-effects after every attack. And **I. Can't. Even.** with the egregious thunder-cross-split attack he does where if you're not already in the right position when he does it, its literally impossible to dodge on med load because it roll catches you with the second swing, meaning if you want to dodge that attack you have to be in that position and be mindful of that one attack THE ENTIRE FIGHT. Its like hahaa we know you'll roll this so here's a roll catch get f*cked. Still somehow a really fun boss to fight but a lot of its difficulty comes from pure bs.

[@sabershark3102]

That one attack you mentioned doesn't catch you if you roll forward i think. But he usually doesn't give you time to ounish it anyway unless it's at the end of another combo so yeah it really is a lot to keep track of, especially when he also has that gravity pull bullshit

[@sneaky5141]

​@@sabershark3102false.

[@flamingmanure]

@@sneaky5141 nope, its objectively false to think its undodgable mid load, theres plenty of enough footage online to prove that, stop spreading misinformation cuz you cant handle basic dodge direction. stick to bb and ds3 where spamming R1 and rolling in mindless directions gets you by.

[@cheeks_of_the_boreal_valley]

​​@@flamingmanuredid you even understand what he said you idiot ? He said it was false in response to the guy who said ' the attack doesn't catch you if you roll forward' Which he is right about. You can't dodge every part of the attack rolling forward, you have to be dodging backwards specifically for this one

[@marvcollins7842]

Very true. Hate it when I buff up and enter the fog gate, only for the boss to edge walk to me instead of insta zipping like it always does. Also hate it when the boss instantly follows up a massive combo with the, as you put it, "thunder cross split attack" that is undodgeable, staggers me and then shoots lasers at me for free. Definitely a bullshit boss. Felt nothing after beating it.

[@jacobwooten977]

For me it was a two pronged problem 1.)The bosses have better mechanics then the player, it’s no longer a fight but a rolling marathon which is frustrating and boring 2.) the bosses power not only did they bust out the hyper ex super combos but they also 1-2 shot most builds. So learning the patterns of endless combos just to have the camera F you over and you take that hit and die repeatedly. The bosses were not made with souls borne mechanics in mind they seem better fit for Sekiro When I found the deflect harden physics that changed the entire game more than the tree fragments A well timed block is far better than a roll in these boss fights it way more fun then rolling for 40sec just to get 1 swing in It’s definitely was a bad design choice the bosses look amazing but the way the player has to interact with them feels very limited the lion dancer is the biggest offender You can’t parry it like you can the twin sword lady The arena/Camara are not on the players side The constant combos into projectiles and aoe left you with little room to fight the boss It just pure offensive onslaught which would be fine if I had more options the just roll or sprint Mechanical and functional the bosses are over tuned for the base player mechanics You can block the attacks unless you have a specific shield and set up Staggering the boss is difficult because you can only manage one hit at a time Using spirit ashes and summoning coop is fine but that takes away from the challenge of over coming the bosses Engaging with the boss mechanics is no longer fun the same way dark souls and blood borne manage to balance They really need to rework the players mechanics to keep up with these new boss philosophies or the games going to go stagnant The deflect harden let me play my build without having to dip into the cheese of one shot or hiding behind summons That mechanic along with the quick step should be set to the standard to keep players ing the fight against the boss and no just running from it Reward timing and quit punishing us with rolling marathons please

[@Disco_Tek]

Sorry I'm replying late but... YES. I hate fighting bosses in both games. They aren't hard... they just aren't fun.

[@flamingmanure]

spoken like someone that played the game like ds3, as in spam r1 and roll in random thoughtless directions, im not really gona go deeper in the subject but you should watch lupine and magicats videos on the subject. truth is the game gives you laughably more options than roll and sprint, good roll direction is something many souls vets arent really good at yet since theyve been groomed by ds3/bb boss design, which i now find boring after elden ring. "Mechanical and functional the bosses are over tuned for the base player mechanics " objectively false joseph anderson rhetoric, and theres plenty of footage online to prove it.

[@Chadius_Thundercock]

@@flamingmanurespoken like a good little fromsoft glazer

[@jacobwooten977]

@@flamingmanure spoken like someone who was carried through the game and use other people’s opinion to criticize those who try on their own

[@Stanzbey69]

@@jacobwooten977 your own opinion? You literally all sound like bots repeating the same scripts.

[@Caine187]

My biggest issue with the boss aggression is that 1 second window you have to attack? Colossal Weapons basically boiled down to Jump Attack Spam, which makes them boring to use to me

[@noahh687]

Jump attacking with colossal weapons is sadly one of the only usable strategies. Any dex build is garbage because you can’t get more than one hit off to proc bleed so basically it’s like every build just plays by doing one jumping heavy attack in between these 9 hit combos. Wish I could get a refund

[@Retr0Duck]

Then your build sucks

[@Retr0Duck]

​@@noahh687dex is one of the stromgest especially bleed. Tf are you on? Im running the dlc with a dex status build and destroying things.

[@cyclic_infinity]

@@noahh687 Depends on the fight, though the timing is frustratingly tight regardless. In general I found dex way more viable than str for the DLC bosses. They are just so damn fast even jump attack is too slow a lot of the time for colossals. If you hit every punish window consecutively you can get procs, and frostbite is mostly better in the DLC. For the bosses I tried status builds for I typically got 2 procs, though sometimes the second was at the end of the fight. Messmer as a high-end example, I got 3 frost procs off with twinblades on my kill and I'm not even good, he took me about 40 tries solo. Powerstance twinblade jumping attack can really stack the hits for statuses, dependent on the boss hurtbox, with flexible light and powerstance attacks for shorter windows or timing errors. Bakchand blade also does an excellent job, and I'm sure the other dex weapons mostly hold up as well. Bayle and Metyr can get just shredded by bleed once you learn their patterns and safer attack points. Rellana sucked for statuses though, she was my one jump bonk boss.

[@KNGDDDE]

I had to pack up my dragon incants a lot lol

[@billyboyer3]

They give us all these cool new ashes of war. But boss openings are too short to use many of them. They give us more tools for creative expression, while simultaneously hampering our ability to use them. It's frustrating because I love many aspects of Elden Ring. And it's a pretty easy fix. Just give the boss longer openings to allow more creative combat expression, and increase the boss health and resistance to compensate. Shorten some of the attack chains, while still preserving the difficulty of evading them. Let players attack more, and it will be much fun, even if the difficulty is the same.

[@grimreefer213]

I disagree, the boss openings are fine. The problem is adding mid ashes of war to the dlc in a game that has so much overpowered shit in the base game. They should’ve followed the trend of the base game in making things very powerful instead of trying to balance them because then all of these cool new spells, weapons etc. are useless compared to the best stuff from the base game.

[@redline841]

And in a very poetic way, Rapid Slash and a few other ashes are extremely broken in PvP

[@w4tch0ut10]

Hell no. Most of the dlc bosses are already disappointingly easy. Whats so appealing about hitting an unmoving blob? 😂

[@redline841]

@@w4tch0ut10 Damn, cleared it that easy?

[@w4tch0ut10]

@@redline841 depends on comparison. I died like 100 times to Radahn, about 20 to Renalla and more than 10 to Messmer, Midra & Sunflower and also the knight in the very first mausoleum, but almost everything else got me either just once or not at all. So I did get a solid death count in the end, but that's massively due to the challenging end boss. For how big the dlc is and in comparison to older fromsoftware dlcs, I would say the difficulty felt a lot lower, overall.

[@peacefusion]

Real issues -cheap Melenia combos everywhere, bosses ramming the entrance, never ending combo poise, flashy visual moves, absurd hitboxes on big bosses.

[@MrSwitchblade327]

Facts

[@NotForgottenCheese]

Yes a part of what makes learning to fight bosses for me is if it’s too flashy that often leads to me thinking it’s going one way often I roll into it instead. it’s presentation really impacts the response to the new bossses

[@ryanhopkins5239]

Malenia not that bad. I've completely figured out waterfowl

[@aBadWizard]

​@@ryanhopkins5239 congratulations on missing the point entirely...

[@ryanhopkins5239]

@@aBadWizard oh, look an a$$hole

[@matheusmterra]

My issue with the difficulty on the DLC, even though I welcome the challenge: enemies and bosses often times feel like I'm fighting the developer instead of the monster. What do I mean by that: a LOT of combo attacks with insane poise (to stop us from staggering enemies and not engaging with their movesets), LONG combos with a lot of delayed attacks mixed in with the occasional input read combo extension and a roll catching move, on top of having a Sekiro-level of aggression while we still have basically the same defensive tools as DS1 plus a jump. They added a new cracked tear that actually gives us Sekiro's deflects, but that lasts for only 3 minutes. If there was a way to get Sekiro's deflects until death or resting at a grace, like Malenia's Great Rune giving us the Rally mechanic from Bloodborne, the combat would feel much more enjoyable. I envy PC players who will be able to mod in an extension on that cracked tear duration to last until death.

[@Monnisti]

Sekiro tear has 5 minute duration, no boss takes more than that and you have it for full duration. It makes the game incredibly fun. You can also use it during legacy dungeons pretty much permanently usually takes less than 5 mins from grace to grace

[@griffin4556]

The sekiro tear is really cool but it is definitely not an excuse for anything, you have to kill one of the fire golems for it, which most players will never bother with since they seem almost impossible to kill at first, it has a limited duration while taking up a slot, and it doesn't do posture damage so there's not much benefit for a style of combat which can be trickier at times due to the tight timing (unless it's really generous in elden ring, I'm not sure), you'd probably only use it because "it's fun". I highly doubt they intended for any boss to be fought with the tear because of that, but I'm sure it makes the game far more enjoyable and I really hope they implement it properly in a future title, Demon Souls combat just needs to go, the jump button isn't saving us here.

[@matheusmterra]

@@Monnisti yeah, but I wanted it active for mini bosses as well and the world.

[@matheusmterra]

@@griffin4556 it doesn't excuse, not at all. I just wish we had that as an option like Malenia's Great Rune, I know that I myself would have much more fun with the DLC if I had that option: Rally plus Sekiro deflects? That's the ultimate FromSoft combat experience.

[@lunarpurge8494]

@@matheusmterra Honestly I can see this, seeing as oddly, the Fire Knights can sometimes just randomly do a deflect on you in the middle of you comboing them. Seen it happen a few times, would love it if the DLC had it's own Runes, Deflect being one of them could change ways to tackle bosses.

[@yesimchar]

i honestly had the most trouble with rellana. she was just early enough in the dlc that i hadnt found many blues clues and i was using a freshly aquired milady (granted it was +24). the combination of lower stats and a new weapon made it a more difficult boss. i will say that out of all the dlc bosses her fight felt much more fair and like a dance of dodging then attacking. many other dlc bosses have long combos that even if you get hit once you need to spend their 2 second counter attack window to chug an estus because it did 40% of my health bar. then its back to dodging for 10 seconds. rinse and repeat edit: and do yourself a favor; equip the new golden braid talisman and use divine fortification for the last boss fight. that gives you 57% holy damage negation for the low price of 10 faith and a talisman slot

[@Homiloko2]

I had the most fun with Rellana. Made a backup save and kept replaying her until I killed her without taking any hits. Then some of the other bosses later on were so boring they felt like a chore and I just used summons to quickly skip them.

[@SmiteKhepri]

Milady is fun but it's best playstyle really is just use weapon art 3 times and almost every boss staggers. Rinse repeat

[@tetsatou2815]

I will argue that the best examples of "too difficult" are represented with Commander Gaius and [redacted for spoilers]. They aren't fun, they aren't thrilling, they don't make me excited to fight them. They make me feel tired, because where I enjoy Malenia's fight as a flow between her cautious approach her brutal combos, those two just start kicking me in the balls and don't stop until I've died 2-3 hits later. Now, admittedly, I'm on NG4+, so everything is just infinitely chunkier, but in the base game, I never felt like I needed to resort to "bleed/freeze" to chop off percentages but in the DLC it almost feels necessary. The absolutely relentless storm of attacks from these two also makes playing a caster build functionally impossible unless you're going to use cheese strats.

[@samuelgames8970]

I'm in NG0 (base game), and I am already having to move to bleed/frost builds as I am just not doing anywhere near enough damage to a lot of these DLC bosses. Mind you my builds aren't amazing, but they should be servicable, but that just isn't cutting it. I had lost half a dozen boss fights due to running out of crimson flasks (like 10) as me and my summon just couldnt kill the damn boss quick enough due to it moving about everywher or being so agressive I had to eat a hit to try and get one in. It is getting slightly better as I progress and mucked around with builds, but it does still feel like a slog.

[@dickheadrecs]

I think Gaius is meant to be a horse duel on torrent - but you just get knocked off way too easy. He’s actually fun if you don’t use torrent and just dodge and punish. He’s really similar to Fallingstar beast actually

[@laary7589]

I will never use bleed or frost as a build it is disgusting to me

[@hollowlord8548]

Commander Gaius wasn't hard, except for the fact his charge hitbox was weird, other than that he was easy and all I had to learn was the dodge to beat him

[@samuelgames8970]

@@laary7589 that's fair, but tbh I dont feel like I have much choice atm with how much hp these enemies have

[@winterdragon2004]

The dance metaphor is every apt for the bosses. If older fights are a dance between two equal partners, the DLC bosses have you in the audience watching the bosses solo performance and waiting until they trip

[@InsaneGreatsword]

Was it just me or did Rellana never trip?

[@lezenwell]

Waiting for a semi-professional ballerina to trip, mind you

[@Blazefire2099]

​@@ELpeaceonearth oof a git gud comment. I have to report you for terrorism for such idiocy ❤️

[@AR-bj5et]

@@evilfungas Agreed. Honestly the worst bosses in the DLC so far were the ones from the base game. The Death Rite Bird reminded me of everything I disliked from Elden Ring's base game while the Dancing Lion, despite being an ultra-mobile AoE spammer, genuinely felt like a dance that forced you to explore every facet of your combat potential. Jump attacks over AoEs, R1s between combos, charged R2s after long wind-up attacks, it was such a good back and forth

[@twoshu8940]

This is actually insane cap, fighting relanna and messmer is the closest to a “dance” that we’ve ever gotten

[@sunnyta1990]

I think just having the bosses flinch more would do wonders. And tone down the final boss of the DLC.

[@winstonpham4809]

I agree I came for a final boss not a laser light show

[@billythenarwhal1579]

Most of the Dlc bosses flinch easy af compared to the base game ones, I got wayyy more stance breaks in the DLC.

[@crabberdabberye]

@@billythenarwhal1579He means flinch as in when you hit them it interrupts their attack combo. Like with Malenia etc.

[@PR1ME98]

I agree. Some of these bosses/enemies are way too tanky for how they look and fight. How tf can someone NOT wearing ANY armor tank through a fucking damage based ash of war?

[@mateusgreenwood1096]

​@@crabberdabberyeThat would just trivialize everything.

[@poot3rs]

Issues I believe need to be addressed. 1. Some bosses instantly use their best special attack moments after entering the arena. All bosses should walk at you like a cool guy for at least 5 seconds and then engage with the player. This will allow the fights to take place more in the center of the arena as well as make the fight more interesting so its not just dodge X attack at the start which is not that engaging. 2. Move summon signs and spirit ash locations to outside the boss arenas. Some are inside and some are outside, bringing this to parity will remove the frustration of trying to activate summon signs while fighting for your life. 3. Certain boss strings frame data should be adjusted slightly to allow more lenience with dodge rolling. There are a few strings that will roll catch if you don't hit a very tight timing and that does feel unfair and frustrating to engage with. Elden Ring already felt like a game where you can choose too suffer or you can choose to abuse the game right back with a myriad of broken builds. But the DLC takes it to the extreme. You will abuse the game or the game will abuse you and I have mixed feeling about that. Learning a difficult encounter is allowed to be frustrating but it should also keep the player engaged. Finding the next step forward should be enjoyable and motivating but I felt my progress on a select few bosses, more then any other souls-like, being impeded by unnecessary bullshittery.

[@raiden3013]

ah actually i heard the reason some summon signs are in arena is because those are summons you need to use to further quest lines. if they are summoned outside the arena the bosses health is buffed. they were moved inside so you can sue them to further their questlines and not inflate the bosses hp.

[@Lumaz001]

why should the boss let you summon. i like how aggressive the bosses are. its still easy to get a summon if you just wait for a recovery

[@ZugzugZugzugson]

the fact you can go from a fun build to a lame blood tax build and turn some hard bosses into a joke is something i severely dislike about the DLC. i was struggling a bit on Rellana when i first came at her, and when i realized that swapping talismans out for magic+fire resistance wasn't going to cut the cheese, i resorted to blood tax and just wiped the floor with her. didn't feel good at all, and every time i find myself being forced to cheese like that, i get a picture of miyazaki running some cringe samurai bleed build in my head and thinking it makes him good at the game. like bro, bleed has been nerfed so many times and it still turns the game into a joke. its a mega crutch and the fact the game is being balanced around it fucking sucks for anyone who want to run a non-bleed build.

[@w4tch0ut10]

Simply not true. You can also play the game normally, beat it and have a great time. Ofc that does require you to actually engage with the game system and observe & think, instead of just cheesing everything with summons or broken stuff. And if cheesing has been your playstyle in every souls game, the likelyhood is obviously high, that you are not prepared for the endgame content to a game you've never even tried to truly engage with its base content. Or in other words: continuously taking the most easy route out of every challenge does not prepare you well for future challenges (it's the same in real life tbh).

[@robertspeedwagon982]

​@@raiden3013I prefer the way they did it before, all NPC summons on the outside, and the boss HP increase is fine since having a summon on your side is an advantage you have on the boss, it balances it out. I'd agree that for the way they made the DLC bosses, not inflating HP was a good thing, but that more have something to do with the flawed boss design

[@chaincat33]

An immediate note about the upgrade material rewards, you can access the dlc as early as Liurnia. You do not have to set foot on Altus to access the dlc. The game rewarding you with these smaller upgrade materials is to reflect that you do not necessarily have access to the bell bearings to give you unlimited materials. It is also very nice to not have to go run to the twin maiden husk every time anyways.

[@Kokszo]

At the same time tagging 10-30k runes as purple quality when base game has up to somber 9s on white indicator is just plain out weird. Enemies are hella inconsistent too - fire knight will usually drop stone [5] while hornsent warrior in belurat (the infinite poise guys) can drop sombers 7-9 while being much easier to kill.

[@billythenarwhal1579]

Actually you have to at least grab one grace in Altus to start the Radahn fight, because you have to beat him and Mohg in order to reach the DLC

[@FelisImpurrator]

Not everyone's going to squat on Frog Hill for an hour to upgrade all their new gear, either. That bell bearing smithing stone grind is absolutely mind-numbing.

[@CrazyFikus]

@@billythenarwhal1579 "Actually you have to at least grab one grace in Altus to start the Radahn fight" There's a way to start the festival without going to Altus, but it involves talking to NPCs in a specific order for Ranni's questline, so it's trivially easy to skip that part of the quest.

[@raghav1026]

Yes you can, but the DLC is balanced for endgame. So if you go in that early you will be tickling wandering nobles and getting oneshot from being sneezed at.

[@TifffanyTaylor]

Using the new weapons is a huge driving force for me. Holy shit Milady & dryleaf arts are the most insanely fun weapons. Blood affinity with both on arcane/dex build.

[@w4tch0ut10]

@@TifffanyTaylor Milday is such a cool weapon. Finally the Tarnished is no longer maidenless 😂 too bad Varre is already a goner by the time we get it

[@robbiedontmiss]

I could not have beaten this dlc without the Milady with Wing stance. My favorite weapon in the game.

[@zerobasedgod9291]

woman build

[@dharma4248]

I loved the majority of the DLC, although the difficulty was a substantial step up from the rest of the game. The damage taken and dealt meant that the duration that error must be avoided and margin for that error to be forgiven is reduced, even if the execution of tasks isn't harder. Many of the bosses had the Elden Beast issues, well telegraphed attacks, interesting and fun move sets, but so much movement that I spent ages dodging and chasing only to get my 1 short attack window. Sometimes that single window would also go to waste as an attack would get skirted around by the boss movement. I parried the twin sword cutie to death and found the snake twink absolutely delightful and fought him over and over until I could no hit him consistently. Some of the best bosses of any game I've ever played, truly wonderful experiences to have. Then I ran headlong into performance issues on the final boss. 3080ti GPU and yet 22fps regularly during the second phase felt absolutely terrible and left a really sour taste in my mouth. Nothing like a boss with so little margin for error (much dmg), such long combos, and such short windows eating frames (and therefore inputs) like candy too.

[@samuelgames8970]

I agree with the "elden beast issue". Yes they bosses (for the most part) actually have cool and well telgraphed atatcks. but they are so insanely mobile and aggressive that trying to be remotely aggressive (esepcially melee) feels horrible. All I do is dodge as I wait for a tiny attack window, get maybe one attack off, then do it again. This makes a lot of the bosses feel horrible to verse, for me at least. I imagine ranged or light weapon builds have a much better time, but still, I can't think its much better with the BS some of these bosses have.

[@flamingmanure]

@@samuelgames8970 sounds like your dodge direction is pretty bad.

[@AirDavy01]

I feel like we're approaching the point where "every subsquent game MUST Be harder than the previous" is becoming a fucking curse for this game lol

[@MHMega]

Agreed, unless they fundamentally change things with the formula I don't think this is sustainable for another full game

[@Username-cs1bi]

Then don't fking complaint when the game is too ez. Almost every souls player say elden ring is the easiesf from soft game. Now they make it harder and some other player complaint as well. There's NO satisfying you lot, if i were fromsoft, I'd understand why they'd just go with what their vision. A game for everyone is a game for no one.

[@misterdeer5261]

I don't complain if the player have Sekiro level of power

[@ezaf5989]

Get good you are a grown man

[@calibula95]

​​@@misterdeer5261in SOTE the player already can have that level of power. Perfect parry with any weapon is a thing thanks to a crystal tear. If you meant that as in wolf being weak... Idk, being able to block/deflect anything is not weak at all. Also infinite stamina.

[@InquirerAshen]

My only complaint was that my Xbox couldn’t handle second phase consort Radahn all the light effects really slowed things down

[@elliekerstiens1916]

Fr same with my pc. They went way too hard with the visuals. Hard to see some tells on attack wind ups. Otherwise, a great boss.

[@MrDannyFrank]

I seriously dont think the rewards are any better or worse than the base game. How many people tried to find a route to every glowing orb in stoneveil just to eventually get to it and its a fucking mushroom? Id much rather be rewarded with smithing stones, at least those are still useful

[@ZugzugZugzugson]

when i started finding finger remedy's in the black keep i knew fromsoft had taken trolling to the next level. forget about the boss fights being unforgiving, the true crime here is the awful loot they will deliberately put in places that are hard to get to in order to make you feel like an idiot after going out of your way to get it after some dumb jump puzzle that will kill you at least 1 time before you solve it, due to some BS like the spike ceilings or a hole in the floor the camera is borderline programmed to avoid focusing on. yay i got a finger remedy and it cost me a rune arc. thanks fromsoft.

[@DwWarWolf]

Yeah I massively disagree with this video and the upgrades going up to +30 and extremely with the armor upgrades because it makes the base game armor worthless.

[@Nocturne989]

"At least those are useful" That's the argument; that when you're in these DLC areas your build is solidified and your shit is fully upgraded...meaning they are not useful at all...

[@hollowlord8548]

"at least they are useful" huh? We already have infinite of those with Bell bearings. They didn't give us infinite tears either.

[@MrDannyFrank]

@@hollowlord8548 not everyone has collected all of the bell bearings

[@Scowleasy]

Finally someone that actually engages with the criticisms and doesn’t just lecture people about what they’re doing wrong! I had some serious issues with bosses in the dlc. Not because of the difficulty, but because *I wasn’t having fun.* Sure, the bosses are great when you’ve *already* mastered them, but if 80% of your time spent on a boss isn’t fun, then is it actually a good fight? I mean is spending more time in loading screens than in the boss fight a good thing?

[@spub1031]

You contradict yourself. You can't say it's not the difficulty, then say it's the loading screen from dying to difficult fights. It's the same as the base game. You die, LEARN, try again, win.

[@Scowleasy]

@@spub1031 it’s not about about them being difficult, it’s about them being nowhere near enjoyable enough to be worth the difficulty it’s at. The final boss is the single most difficult fight From has ever made, and it is UNIVERSALLY hated. Everyone is already calling it “pre-patch” because we’re all dead certain it’s going to be changed.

[@spub1031]

@Scowleasy funny, you say universal when every person I've seen and talked with that has beaten the boss enjoy the fight (me included). Yes, sometimes it gets a bit much, and if From sees that an attack has issues, then it should be patched. From what I've seen, every attack can be dodged and leaves him open to an attack after the end of a combo. Hell, even Asmongold, who originally gave up on the DLC, enjoyed all except who the boss was character-wise.

[@Scowleasy]

@@spub1031 I don’t care about your made up personal stories

[@MrVisualHigh]

@@spub1031count me amongst the people who beat the boss but didn’t find it fun. The sample of your circle of friends isn’t sufficient. Funnily enough some of the other fights I enjoyed a lot, Bayle might be my favourite fight in any FromSoft game. Mesmer took me twice as long to beat as the final boss but I still feel like it was more enjoyable.

[@mathewdyffryn8693]

Honestly my biggest beef with it is that they basically force you to use at least one or two defensive talismans which obviously makes your damage way lower ...which makes bosses seem way too tanky ..if you dont use defensive talismans you get 2tapped on 60 vig ...just give me 2 more talisman pouches in shadow realm and take them away in base game and Im good to go

[@lucasimmons075]

100% this. Using dragoncrest and crimson seed is required and most bosses are a lot more manageable with an elemental resist. Another issue like this is buffs being almost necessary, another way of pigeonholing your build

[@omny3336]

Idk ive honestly found that the 2 tapped on 60 vig is a NG+ issue. And with that in mind ALL i had to do to remedy that was equip a shield. Not full turtle mode legit just took one of the golden triangle shields, and realised a lot of boss attacks such as mesmer snakes, and most ranged attacks dont dmg ur stamina much. Also armor, the game gives u the solitude knight armor from the start. With solitude armor and the dragoncrest talisman alone you can reach close to 55-60% mitigation...

[@twoshu8940]

You don’t HAVE to do any of this. Max level scadutree blessing gives you a ridiculous amount of free defense. You’re just getting hit a ton because, let’s face it, you suck. As a result you need more defensive talismans. I also get hit a lot so I take crimson seed +1 but I don’t whine about it and I beat the whole DLC no summon and had an amazing experience with the majority of bosses

[@PlatinumAltaria]

Honestly yeah, that's a good idea. Talismans already don't allow you to stack the same effect so it's not like you could break the game too much that way.

[@NekomiyaTH]

My red tear ring build need no vigor or high defend, just have to press O button fast enough xD

[@dsteddd6087]

I agree. Dodging for 90% of the time during boss fights is super stupid.

[@joxerrrrr]

The only reason you dodge 90 percent of the time is because you can't figure out where the openings are.

[@dsteddd6087]

@@joxerrrrr I mean, dodge 6-7 times to do ont hit, cause main bosses have long combos. Sometimes jump in specific scenarios.

[@rooodis456]

I WANT to explore, but i want to explore to find scadutree fragments, because I already have a build that works for me. And yet, almost everytime i go explore on my own without a guide, I just find anything except scadutree fragments. Yes I know to look for any statues of Marika and churches and some of the pot-holding enemies, but still I never find them without a guide and that is definitely discouraging.

[@Dante-uj5pc]

Agree 100%. They should make them easier to find and easier to differentiate from regular loot

[@HavilandBerg]

Some of the places they put these things are so random, I swear.

[@BigVorst]

I love how one Scadutree fragment is just... On a statue's hand. I only saw the damn thing because I happened to accidentally look up at one point. 🙄

[@rooodis456]

@@HavilandBerg fr I wish it was like how the sacred tears worked, on my first playthrough of the game if I saw something on the map that looked “church-shaped” I knew I could go there and be rewarded with a tear nearly every time

[@TheBurningcage27]

​@@rooodis456 it's like they had the right idea with miquellas crosses buy then ran outta time and went "quick just put them in random spots and from random inconsistent bosses"

[@josey_8204]

I love the dlc. Relana and messmer have become comfort fights for me, i like helping people beat them.

[@abaddungeonmaster7622]

The ending portion really nailed it for me: I don’t want to spend 10+ seconds JUST rolling for every boss, hit once, then retreat and do it again, with pressure of “if I fail rolling ONCE, I either will be trapped and die, or spend the one second I can afford to attack to instead heal, then do it all again” looming over my head. I don’t want to feel like I always just get “lucky”, I want to feel like I EARNED the win. I want to feel like I’m actually playing the game. I don’t want to feel RELIEF, I want to feel JOY in powering through that engaging challenge. For context, Elden Ring was my first FS game, and what got me into playing the other titles now. Don’t get me wrong, I LOVE the dodging and rolling, and the mix of risky moves and give-take. And I’m even okay with some bosses who DO mix up the formula with a “OH GOSH WHEN DOES IT STOP” combo where I dodge for a long time! ….but so many bosses this dlc did this. Rolling and rolling and rolling, getting caught with aggressive tracking, stupidly large hitboxes going beyond their weapons making it feel like I’m being bullied at the school lunch, not in a fair fight. It didn’t feel like I was a welcomed player. Like a challenge presented for me to beat, to achieve Lordhood. It felt like a mean spirited dare to beat someone’s overtuned DnD monster, and have them taunt me about it, only ever winning because either my dice lucked out, or their dice rolled poorly. Not all of them! Messmer was DIVINE, Midra was just start to finish eye cand (the walk, his movement, the attacks, the atmosphere, chef kiss!) for example! But so many bosses just left me feeling more glad to be done, rather than thrilling to partake in. Again, I’m fine with occasional bosses making you DODGE and KEEP DODGING, really making you work for your hit. I would say Rellana, while sometimes almost overly punishing and input reading, still felt like a rewarding challenge for understanding her combos and powers! I walked away going “phew, that’s a wild fight, but we did it.” But man…it feels so disheartening to dodge and dodge and dodge and dodge for nearly every boss, barely eek out a hit that they didn’t respond to at all both visually and through staggering/interrupting, barely did damage, and repeat most of the fight. Sure, I COULD go farm all the Scadutree fragments to make my one poke or cast a bit more powerful, or switch to one of the few hard counter builds to beat them, or just wait it out, only doing the safest of hits, but that’s not f u n after doing it for 20 times in a row, and sitting through another loading screen, and repeating again. It gets old and frustrating, and quite simply, I have to attend to my real life. I don’t have the time or WANT to spend 15+ minutes each attempt barely poking the boss, I want to be DUELING and FIGHTING them, I don’t have the time I wish I could to JUST binge these guys or grab all the scadutree fragments right away, (of course spending some time to is needed and necessary don’t get me wrong, but hearing “oh go get more of them then to counteract it” is annoying and dishonest about some genuine issues.) And I don’t want to just cheapen the experience and overtune the intended scadutree levels for bosses just to feel like I put padding under my shirt for the next bashing-with-a-hammer session to make it a little less painful, or overdue it to where it feels cheap. Now of course I don’t want “aN eAsY mOdE” or some garbage. NO. I don’t. I want to feel like I’m fighting a great challenge, not being swirlied for 60 minutes and then only lucking out cause the bell rang and I could crotch shot the bully. I want to be an underdog, fighting a being of unfathomable power, and beating it through studying their exam, and then eventually passing their test. Not switching to a build they are weak to (I’m totally for switching up PLAYSTYLES and GEAR, not completely restatting to use bleed on everything), or using a shield cheese, or spend so much longer than needed to do love taps that barely jiggle their health bar to kill them inbetween their mile long combo, or whatever. Some bosses will be harder for certain playstyles, that’s okay! That’s awesome, and helps give that occasional reward for “nice, my niche came in handy!” But I don’t want to feel like I’m playing stupidly by not exploiting a specific thing. I guess, some parts of the DLC feel like I’m at a DnD table, and the DM got sick of how one or two players have been playing, and are now overturning their combat to compensate, and I’m in the middle being punching bagged. I love this DLC, it’s been OVERALL a great joy, with amazing areas, beautiful scenes, some great fights, amazing lore(…mostly, still not a fan entirely of what they decided for the end boss…), great weapons, a lot to love! But i just don’t love the amount of “im glad that’s over” feelings a lot of bosses and enemies felt like, rather than the feeling of “good fight, I will remember this fondly, and honor you by adding your boss soundtrack to my playlist.” Oh also, yes yes I need to go and git gud 💀 for the final boss again. Here is an hour or so hoping he doesn’t light spam me as much and give my console an aneurism with the fps drop 🤣. But great video, thank you for very fairly and openly analyzing these perspectives, and not either click bait “ACTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE AND TERRIBLE” nor being belittling and being “THESE GUYS JUST SUCK AND CANT ADAPT”. It’s refreshing and heartwarming, and definitely makes me eager to see more content in the future from you!

[@stoneysenpaii]

"Jokes on you, I don't even know where to get Lions Claw!" 😂 that earned a like

[@yamnbam4346]

I can tell you’re itching to talk about specific things. Looking forward to the more explicit analysis/discussion.

[@andrewgallagher7690]

I ended up playing the DLC with my brother and we co-oped every boss, and honestly, it’s probably the intended way to play. Dancing lion and Renala especially are very aggressive fights, have small windows to attack. These bosses go from long, demanding slogs, into more fun, frantic battles with a friend. You get more opportunities to heal and get damage in when your buddy is holding agro and constantly dodging. Once you get off your attack, the boss immediately goes after you, and you have to focus on stalling so they can get their big attack off. You still have to find windows to attack because they can attack you mid combo once you get their agro, and they have attacks that can threaten both players at the same time. It’s a different kind of dance than other bosses in the series, but I find it just as fun.

[@Sleepyless]

This, played with a friend with seamless coop, we literally played for 2 days straight it was super fun

[@Geskeeho]

No it's not the intended way, I just had to find more scadutree fragments and rellana became a joke boss right away, that is the weird design in the dlc sadly

[@reganhay7887]

I think some of the issue with the player power curve comes from players being over prepared. In my current run, my first playthrough of the dlc, I wanted to go into the DLC before burning the erdtree so i started the DLC at rl127 with only access to the first 3 smithing bells and no glovewort bells. Having a relative lack of resources made the relative impact of finding rocks and flowers as rewards for exploration far greater and always gave me singing I needed. My runes went towards levels I desperately needed and the low level stones dropped from enemies made my new weapons stronger. I scrounged every area for 7 and 8 stones to eke out every little extra piece of damage and through that process managed to find all but 3 scadutree fragments and 1 revered spirit ash naturally. I do agree that the bosses have attack chains that go on too damn long, but in my opinion the majority of bosses that do this are kinda glass cannons. I am by no means a good player of souls games, I'm mediocre at best, but after returning to the main game to get the smithing bells 4 to comfortably take on the final DLC boss and trial new weapons to see which moveset I wanted to use against the big guy I found that I could beat Fire Giant and Godskin Duo first try. The DLC made me a better player on a fundamental level. I'm even starting to learn parry timings finally, after many playthroughs of 4 different souls games and several aborted attempts at learning previously. Maybe this experience is purely due to my own skill level and the build I had (non-cheese non-optimal bleed) but I couldn't help but feel the hands of the designers guiding me throughout the DLC. All that being said, Git Gud 💀 my friends I'm off for day three of attempting the final boss.

[@rooodis456]

How much time and patience do you have that you found all but three scadutree fragments NATURALLY.

[@abeon8151]

@@rooodis456 By the end of my first run of the DLC, I had scadu blessing level 18, and I found it just by going naturally anywhere I thought would be interesting to go.

[@reganhay7887]

@@rooodis456 just usual gaming time. Quite a lot over the first two or three days because of weekend time, much less in the following week due to studying. Finding a fragment by killing a pot carrying person by the scorched village meant I sought them out as much as I could. As for patience, a lot I guess. Souls games in the past have greatly improved my patience for unraveling obtuse storytelling, exploring everything and practicing bosses until I succeed.

[@concerninghobbits5536]

I'm just annoyed that people use "it's not too hard" as a blanket answer to anyone complaining. Objectively I don't think it's too hard (haven't beaten it yet) but I DO think there are absolutely some issues and they get overlooked because people don't know how to explain their issues so they just say "it's too hard" and then people respond with "no it's not". The quickest example is just like that bigass dragon before Bayle. I almost enjoyed the fight but not being able to lock onto its legs was a nightmare and the camera being so zoomed in while the boss flies around a lot meant it was a pain just trying to see what moves it's doing that I had to dodge. Like yeah there are a lot of ways to deal with it especially if you just use things like mimic tear, but it's a genuine complaint I have about specific design of bosses or areas or enemies. Even a lot of the biggest Elden Ring supporters including like no-hit runners were complaining about some of the bosses well after release of the base game. They didn't struggle necessarily as they're able to no-hit them all, but just found flaws with the design of certain moves and such, and I haven't heard any of that in the DLC because it's so black and white between "too hard" and "no just get good and use all the tools".

[@laughingman9574]

"Too hard" doesn't mean anything. Skill cap is different for everybody. And I'm not talking about "get good" thing. That has lost all of it's meaning a long time ago. It used to be small dig but also genuine advice. Learn the moves of the boss and then win. That is what that meant. Not only that skill caps are different, some boss hard for me could be easy for you and vice versa. And you shouldn't listen any no hit runners and their knee jerk reactions when they can't figure out something instantly and their ego comes in play. I guarantee that, in no time, new strategies will be discovered and the perception of difficulty will shift. It is ALWAYS that way.

[@omarcortes9958]

The "I can't lock on the legs of bayle" statement is actually a hint, that maybe its better to attack just his head, since almost al of his movement at the end of every string of attack leave him open to punish, as well that when you do extra damage when you go for his head. I am playing on NG+1 and have been having a breeze with the DLC even though I have died maybe 2 or 3 times per boss (except bayle that I think I died 10 or more times) BTW I was Lvl152 and my build is pretty much a balanced in everything

[@concerninghobbits5536]

@@omarcortes9958 the dragon before Bayle is who I was talking about (or meant to at least with the lock on) but that is a good point! Although I found Bayle himself definitely felt open to getting hit in the head which I enjoyed a lot more than the guy right before him. Reminded me of Midir who I loved.

[@omarcortes9958]

@@concerninghobbits5536 ah yes, that ancient dragon is real bullshit so I agarre with you on that one

[@concerninghobbits5536]

@@omarcortes9958 yeah the one bright side is he made Bayle so much more fun since I was like "well at least he's not that other guy"

[@Ozerati]

so collecting higher level smithing stones is different than collecting scadutree fragments? Of which Scadutree fragments also help your defenses and not just offense.

[@DwWarWolf]

He unironically suggested smithing stone levels exclusive to the dlc so as to not harm the base game's balance...which is the exact same problems the fragments solve.

[@J-i8d]

The mountain analogy made me think of what Brandon Rogers once said: "There is no top. Reaching the peak only gives you a better view after the next taller mountain to climb."

[@DjentyB]

Half of the frustration would be removed if they just zoomed the camera out more on big bosses, Sekiro did it so idk how hard it would be to add it into elden ring. DLC Final boss is mostly fun when you can see what he's doing ._.

[@vehnashur2771]

Elden Ring is my first and only Fromsoft game. My perspective is colored by playing rpg games from the Elder Scrolls series and Bioware. Base Elden Ring and Shadow of the Erdtree can be hard, but people also make it hard. I choose to grind levels, increase power, and use what works to put the boss down. If I need to drop meteorites on a boss, so be it. If the Crystalin can tank fire damage for me, awesome. If someone's charging animal can be countered by a shield build, cool. I get satisfaction from obliterating bosses or having a well fought back and forth. I guess I would agree with adapting to the boss amd building power.

[@Kara_Pabuc]

İf I were the devs, I'd introduce "scadu runes" in the DLC. Basically another currency that let's you level up in the DLC area. Effectively this does the same thing as Scadutree fragments. But, changes how people approach the game. Instead of running around to find scadutree fragments, players can go to an optional dungeon kill the enemies/bosses and get stronger as result of that. In other words, this DLC tied progression directly to exploration. In the base game progression tied to combat. That's the biggest flaw I'd say. In the base game where ever you go, you'll find enemies and by beating those enemies you can level up and get stronger. In the DLC, you can beat all the enemies in the area but get nothing out of it. This lessens the core game loop of Souls games. In DLC, you know that when you beat those incredibly strong enemies, you'll get basically nothing. This feels cheap.

[@flamingmanure]

"n the DLC, you can beat all the enemies in the area but get nothing out of it. This lessens the core game loop of Souls games. In DLC, you know that when you beat those incredibly strong enemies, you'll get basically nothing. This feels cheap." this applies to all fromsoft dlcs, thats how dlcs work, elden ring is the only one with actual progression in it, most ppl dont even level up in fromsoft dlcs as theyre already on their end game build, i agree that scadues wouldve been better as boss drops, but to say it lessens the core game loop is a massive exaggerated statement, especially since beating strong enemies give you their loot/armor/weapons usually. hell you could go ahead and level up your vigor and stam in the dlc too, many idiots still fail their vigor check.

[@mr_peach7704]

You made an offhand remark about leaving your sign to be summoned to help other players defeat bosses and I think this is a part of the game (the genre?) that is still untapped. They could do more with it and it's very vanilla as it is now. It could be more 'essential', imo. And with this, Miyazaki's recent comments about being open to the idea of future Fromsoft titles having seamless co-op; I think this is the direction I would choose if I was looking to shake up the paradigm and build a better mountain as it were.

[@strawhat_cotafitness1260]

If they make a seamless co-op game where I can basically build around a team of friends I might have a heart attack lol

[@mcgarner1992]

Totally agree. Take a note from remnant 2’s book. That’s one of the reasons I love monster hunter. Being able to co-op hunt monsters with 1 or 2 of my friends and just have some fun. And not have to re invite them to my lobby after every single “boss”

[@SuperLotus]

There's also issues with the boss design. Someone said they were getting summoned for one boss and the people who summoned them ended up dying right at the beginning of the fight because of how explosive the bosses are.

[@ShadowProject01]

This is an intriguing notion..I like it

[@Zark937]

"SunBros: Solaire gets his groove back" would be an amazing game imho.

[@Bayesic]

Had a different comment written up but I think the point you bring up at around 39:00 with ridiculous combos is a far bigger problem for me as far as enjoying the DLC goes. Rakshasa is the biggest offender for non remembrance bosses me, where she literally WILL NOT stagger with charged R2 Venom Fangs if she's even sort of considering using her ash. It's a fight where if I'm careful, I can do it first try whenever I want, but the difficulty comes in wanting to end the fight some time before the next time the planets are aligned. For remembrance bosses, Bayle is hands down one of the worst designed bosses in any FromSoft game I've ever played, again not necessarily cause he's hard, but because you get like one or two attacks in before he flame breathes all over the floor forcing you to disengage. And he does it CONSTANTLY. And if he's not doing that, then he's jumping halfway across the screen to tail swipe you, or doing one of his three attacks where he flies into the air for 5+ seconds to attack you. It's like god damn can I actually engage with these enemies every once in a while please?

[@Wesleysnipes87]

For Bayle it sounds like you were trying to stay under him the whole time. Going for the head it's a much better fight.

[@GodChaos333]

I do like how constructive your criticism is. This isn’t just “bad cuz it feels hard” or “Just get good lul” you bring up real good points, and I agree with most of what you said. Progression is linear and slow in a way, main bosses have no flinching and leave hardly any time to attack back. They should have more down time after a long attack string or something. I have experienced not using some of my favorite attacks and spells because I knew they were too slow to use.

[@flamingmanure]

"Progression is linear and slow in a way, main bosses have no flinching and leave hardly any time to attack back" plenty of those once you actually learn the fight, i take it youre a bb/ds3 souls veteran? those still havent learned to playe ER properly.

[@MrHammerofdoom]

​@@flamingmanureah yes , hand waving away valid critisisms, hallmark of a fromdrone

[@SATURNOBR007]

Honestly I prefer the base game over the DLC. Having played all Dark Souls, Sekiro and Bloodborne, I never felt like I was doing a chore while fighting the bosses, however in this DLC everytime I fought a boss except maybe 2 bosses, felt like I was not having fun for simply having to dodge 6 to 8 hits and then landing one attack and repeat. I don't like the direction From Software took with the DLC, DS3 for example had Gael and I always felt like I could get a hit or two while he was attacking, now if I try to attack rennalla or mesmer after going behind them, I just get smoked by the barrage of slashes and combos. I also felt like exploring wasn't so rewarding, I explored cerulean coast and felt like it was a waste of time after the first 20 minutes, because the area is literally the scenery and some scattered materials or common enemies.

[@arcanjogamerplay]

The DLC was not too hard for me at all. However, the new bosses' movesets are just kind of boring. They require you to dodge for a long time to be able to retaliate for just a fraction of a second. Even if you boost your defense and attack, it will not change that. The bosses are just combo-streak freaks that never stop.

[@someguyoutthere110]

Definitely agree with what you say about builds. In the base game I never really felt the need to use overpowered builds and just used weapons I think are cool, but now it seems like I've been caught in the crossfire and every boss is a grindy slog. So ironically, I've felt more tempted to respec into some meta build, if only to make the fights a bit faster.

[@tezereth]

Felt that too. Been using a normal curved greatsword (the dismounter, if it matters) and great hammer, both heavy infused with no status buildup. I went through the base game mostly without using any cheese or summons (that one was more of a personal challenge). But by the end, I was stuck feeling forced to use ashes like chilling mist, summons, and mimic. Beating the final dlc boss just didn't feel great.

[@JackalArtsmith]

Switched to an ultra greatsword build after using a dex build Milady for so long and it's insane how big the difference is Milady was miserable in the DLC, with an UGS though? ooga booga I kill everything and last longer in boss fights, they're still miserable to fight but least I do damage now. Genuinely has sucked all the fun out of the game for me with how the DLC is just skewed toward the most braindead playstyle imo, I don't even read bosses or remember their combos anymore I just dodge when an attack comes and swing big stick until boss dies.

[@NANIXON1998]

I always said that Soulsborne bosses used to play by the same rules as the player. They were just better at it. Not literally, of course, but hear me out. You could see the moments where they seem like they've run out of stamina and need to take a breath, the moments where they're ready to do their big moves that they use sparingly because of FP, how they have their options like a light attack string or a heavy attack string, some mixups in there... But Elden Ring bosses never run out of stamina, they never need to think about when to use the big moves, they never ever ever stop their attack strings. You aren't in this intricate play of working in and out of one another... you're completely at their mercy while THEY have all the fun.

[@w4tch0ut10]

@@NANIXON1998 yes but also just not correct 😅

[@-Nightingale]

... no

[@shade08538]

@@-Nightingalegreat argument thank you 👏 It’s gotten to the point where you need to follow 30+ minute videos of guides on how to get an op build, just to counter the bosses bullshit with your own bullshit. Without an op meta build, you are virtually inferior to the boss in every metric, and every single one of those metrics is utilized to their maximum extents as bosses are unbounded, entirely limitless. You, the played, are the punching bag, because you were built to be ragdolled under all of the controls and rules you’re forced to follow.

[@joxerrrrr]

The bosses never played by the same rules, they always had more damage, health and bigger hit boxes on their attacks.What are you talking about.

[@NANIXON1998]

@joxerrrrr It's called nuance, mate. It's like you didn't read past the first bloody line. Obviously they don't play by exactly the same rules, but what I'm saying is they at least feel like they were made for the game they're in. Elden Ring feels like they want you playing Devil May Cry, but as Bill from accounting... unless that analogy is also too nebulous for you.

[@MusicForHourss]

What I hate the most is the buffs. I just want to play a challenging game. You have to activate all kinds of thing, have the perfect talisman combo and tears. Why not have an adventure or experience level system with damage increases like strength or stamina. I mean the dude or girl runs around and kills a bunch if enemies shouldn't he/she get stronger because of all that fighting. Outside from the magical grace given power... That would immediatly fix the feeling of exploration and actually just experiencing the game. If you want to really crunch the numbers you can do that, but leave something for people that love games like Skyrim and OSRS, but love a good challenge. I hope someone reads this comment.

[@barbedmitten4475]

I agree. I want a game that challenges my ability to play not one that says use the right build or else

[@flamingmanure]

@@barbedmitten4475 good thing elden ring doesnt do that, otherwise it means YOU played the game badly.

[@jonathancastillo6433]

I “crafted my build” for PvP. It’s a keen Flamberge (little bit of bleed pressure, but not the focus) supplemented with electrify weapon (a suitable but fair buff) and golden vow. The ash is Thunderbolt, for the heal punish (I force honor duels, I do not care that you want to save your summon). I have 67 poise, 50 vig (those last 200 hp for 10 levels isn’t my tea) and the 60 Dex to get some damage out. This is a COMPLETE 125 level build that has trade potential. I found very few enemies respected my damage and stagger output. I usually use smaller weapons like daggers, because I value tiny openings and lighter loads very much, but strength bois have it easy, let’s be honest. Each and every boss took all my buffs, available scadur blessings, a summon (I choose not to mimic, you do you), and dumb luck. I am still not done, but I will say, as a souls vet with DS 1, 2, 3, and Bloodborne under my belt. Elden ring is just hard, unintuitive, and unwilling to play by turn. Your shield will break, your roll caught, your spell dodged, your damage out-matched. It can “be learned”, but I do not believe it can be done alone. I accept the coming git gud 💀comments. I am your martyr, farm me for your hearts. Stand strong and don’t you dare go hollow.

[@cameronmckillop6448]

The last boss had quite a few attacks. I fully thought I should be able to jump, and they all still did damage to me or ripped me out of the air. So many bosses punished me for trying to exploit the end of their perceived combo. At some point it became tiring to even want to figure out the bosses because it was so punishing and unintuitive. The dance of combat felt more like dancing against a professional, and they're constantly trying to upstage you every picosecond. I was so unsatisfied by the end of the DLC. I was happy it was over by the end.

[@Charsept]

There only 1 Remembrance Boss that took me more than 8 tries. The main bosses got spanked by me, with one exception; the final boss. The last boss took me 158 tries and 6 hours. All other main bosses only killed me 24 times combined. You see the imbalance in the difficulty? (at least 30 deaths against the last boss were before I could land a hit)

[@flamingmanure]

i dont actually, you rolled badly for 30 deaths, and thats about it, use the plenty of tools the game gives you, rather than bitch about difficulty.

[@philmcracken2365]

@@flamingmanurenice bait bro 👍

[@stut7177]

How did you die without getting a hit in? The flying gravity attack he opens with almost everytime is one of the easiest moves in the whole game to dodge and counter? I'm Genuinely curious as it's hard to believe someone good enough to easily destroy the other bosses in so few attempts couldn't counter that opening of all things.

[@RaghavSharma-x2d]

​@stut7177 prolly cuz he tried to summon mimic in the start which almost guarantees you to get hit and if you have low vigor that can prolly one shot you or he survives the first attack but isn't able to survive the normal combo that radhan does after the flying attack and even one attack from the combo one shot you as the flying attack takes 75 percent of my hp at 80 vigor

[@sarthak-ti]

@@Charsept I ran through the dlc bosses on NG+3, but goddamn was that final boss stupidly difficult. I do like a challenge, but it felt like he was a challenge for the wrong reasons, and it was such a jump up from the previous bosses

[@hj-hv6rt]

25:16 Respectfully, how exactly did FromSoft "take away" the spirit ashes lol. They’re still there and still trivialize every boss in the DLC (with the possible exception of Mr Consort)

[@SpuRkZ]

Your video was very insightful, and i feel like i understand the complaints a lot more now. Most of these things didn't affect my personal enjoyment of the game in any negative way, and i didn't feel less incentivised to explore at all, but i do recognize that the reasons people play these games vastly differ. One of the great things about Elden Ring was how it was able to accomodate such a wide range of players, while not losing, or compromising on it's identity as a souls game, where the dlc seems to cater to more specific audiences.

[@KNGDDDE]

I'm just glad they helped smooth out the early game. My personal big issue was the huge jump in frag lvl from bosses to enemies. Especially coupling in how caves/dungeons aren't marked when you clear them, it got aggravating warping g around to find places I randomly beat way too early or early game places I'm doing b4 miquella

[@rinnolk]

They need to evolve the formula in a more meaningful way. The core root of many of the game's problems are tied to combat being very, very limited. Primarily in terms of boss interactions. The difficulty is in executing timed inputs, but the inputs themselves are boring as heckies, and the resulting actions are... stale? And lacking in meaningful gameplay variation. Fundamentally, you only really have one response to any attack - roll. Yes, sometimes sprinting works. Yes, blocking also works to a very limited degree, and yet it's all about rolling in the end. And all your attacks are just... mashing the one most effective move (single input as well), spell, ash, etc. It's frankly astonishing just how far they've taken this very basic dynamic, but SoTE (and the base game too, tbf) really shows just how basic it is. Having combos, more movement options, different dodges aside from rolls, more functional parries would all open up so much design space for encounters. And yes, more staggers/flinches coming from the player. I keep thinking of Nioh as an example of what I mean. The combat in that game stays entertaining for so much longer and is much more varied (itemization is cursed though)

[@ronthorn3]

You forgot parry.

[@redline841]

​@@ronthorn3 Parries can absolutely trivialize a boss, first phase of final DLC boss comes to mind.

[@Archflip]

You can now also jump as a response to some moves.

[@flamingmanure]

"mashing the one most effective move" you are objectively playing the game wrong then.

[@JohnDoe-sq5nv]

@@flamingmanure The biggest flaw of Fromsoft games is how far you can get without understanding the game. In Elden Ring you can even beat the game even without using meme builds. Even Sekiro allowed me to beat it without understanding the game. The roll spam meme needs to die. I wish that people would just try to play the game without constantly rolling whenever the boss makes a slight twitch, because then they would see how much easier the games become when you don't just roll, roll, roll and instead create your own openings. People don't even realize that one of the reasons why the combos just go on forever is because they are rolling away.

[@OfficialChrissums]

They shouldve had scadutree levels give you "phantom levels", maybe like 2-3 per fragment, which can be used to build out your character's weapon and spell options instead of being a flat damage and defense buff. Then tune down the bosses. This would allow the player to use different builds they normally couldnt to overcome difficulty, improving game variety, while reducing frustration. This would be way less annoying than constant respeccing to use the right tool for a specific area or boss.

[@OfficialChrissums]

also they shouldve added way more ancient smithing stones to facilitate this. Come on From why gatekeep this its so annoying

[@phant4smz121]

I'm a fan of the series. Played Bloodborne, Sekiro, DS3. This time around, I feel like the cultist situations are really getting out of hands. #Explore then found cookbooks Soul cultists : wow, it's there because the LORE. 12/10 Miyazaki #Rellana area is basically raya lucaria academy x caria manor model recycling. And the concept of the boss is basically pontiff sulyvan. Soul cultists : wow, it's the LORE. IT'S MUST HAVE SOME CONNECTIONS. 12/10 miyazaki #Power creeps situation - 90% of players are using Bleed build - cheese build - OP builds - are the reason why DLC bosses and enemies need to be harder and faster, there will be no stop to this. Soul cultists : wow, it's BALANCED. miyazaki 12/10 #Empty spaces are everywhere. Now It's more about quantity than quantity. Original ER open world is turning into empty world ER main game is 10/10. This DLC ? I think it's 8 at best. I personally feel that it's a 7. Guys, Remember. If a game can't be criticized, next games will turn into shit.

[@robertspeedwagon982]

THIS, the amount of people glazing the game an Miyazaki (while he's just director, there's a whole studio behind that man) is ridiculous. Horrible design is saluted as genius because "you just have to use X" (X being either a ridiculous cheese or summons which trivialize 70% of the gameplay). Over-positive criticism without reflexion is probably the worst thing that can happen as the Devs could follow that as "we did nothing wrong, let's continue like that" and end up making games that are less and less well-tuned and enjoyable experiences. I really fear for the futur of Fromsoft and I hope that they will learn from the mistakes of ER to continue making great games that are more and more refined.

[@Asankeket]

03:00 "Taking something away from the player once you've given it to them is usually a big no-no in design." That sums it up nicely. I bought Elden Ring on the suspicion that despite being a Soulslike, it might accommodate my playstyle - and man, didn't it do that in a way I totally did not expect. I love exploration and deciphering lore, but I'm a roleplayer. I'm not interested in fair fights but effective fights. Give me one hour to overcome a boss and I'd rather spend 55 minutes of that hour outside the boss arena, to make sure the actual fight is a curbstomp. *This isn't cheap, it's smart* (this can't be repeated often enough)!!! ER's major boss fights are never a curbstomp but it did accommodate my playstyle well enough to overcome almost all bosses with a single-digit number of attempts, and were it not so, I would not have bought the DLC. And then...the enemies became much more difficult AND my build became much less effective. At times I feel the new bosses were deliberately designed to undo all the work I had done to achieve what I wanted - to make the fights easier for me, ie someone with just an average skill at this type of game. With the result that I just don't feel as motivated to tackle the next boss as I was in the main game, Scadutree fragments notwithstanding.

[@SpartonWolf]

I don’t understand how you could go into the dlc thinking you can just use the same strategies as the main game? Is that really fun? You could definitely use strategy and those 55 minutes to curb stomp all the dlc bosses, but you need to actually devise some new strategies in this 55 minutes rather than just replicating what worked in the base game.

[@Asankeket]

@@SpartonWolf I admit I had to relearn just how versatile a caster build can be, and that part was, and is, enjoyable. However, as opposed to the main game, it didn't make a significant difference against the story bosses I've met so far before I collected more Scadutree fragments than were available in the areas you would explore in the normal course of progression. In the main game, I found Margit quite doable after exploring the starting areas, without scouring Liurnia and Caelid for Golden Seeds, spells and equipment - and he was my first Soulsborne boss. Meanwhile, I couldn't beat Rellana without first bypassing Castle Ensis and collecting enough fragments to level up my blessings to 12, and even then I feel I was lucky since she didn't use her Twin Moons spell.

[@Lumaz001]

ok so u want an easy mode? lol.

[@SpartonWolf]

@@Asankeket twin moons is easy to dodge just jump it

[@LondorCity]

You said you have average skill, yet it's your first Soulsborne game, then proceed to somekind of kameha-cheese bosses "to curbstomp them in single digit attempts". Nothing is right in what you say. Learn to dance.

[@dcphillips1991]

I think the biggest issue is input lag and input dropping, far too often you can press a button and the input will just disappear

[@albertnonymous9759]

I went with a new character, did the mandatory Radahn and took Varre's quest to get to Moghwyn early, and aside from entering the DLC too early, (lvl 60 or so, first boss and the way there gave me like 8 level ups), this feels like the intended experience and it's great. I don't have the bell bearings as a result, so getting 8 smithing stone [7] feels like a godsend, level ups feel very impactful, especially as I'm still getting 2 or so per boss, and the side-grades in weapons and talismans are just that, an alternative progression in my case since i dont have Farum Azula, mountain peak or even Leyndell. Feels great to use a light greatsword for a change. Only real issue is that I lack one talisman slot and my estus flask is a bit behind, and of course returning to the main game afterwards is gonna be a cakewalk

[@Homiloko2]

That's very easy to solve by increasing the upgrade drop rate from killing enemies, but by no means should those repeat upgrade materials ever be used as rewards for EXPLORATION.

[@robertspeedwagon982]

The place where they put the DLC felt really weird, especially when compared to other games (I'm only talking about DS2 and DS3 because they're the only ones I completed) where the DLC where either at the end of the game or near the end. Ashes of Ariandel could be accessed quite early, but the game outright told you "You're going to get jumped hard, come back later" with a message at the entry of the DLC area. They tried something new, it didn't really worked, but at least they tried something new and I hope, learned from it for their future games

[@roadle11223]

For anyone still struggling, i highly suggest giving great shields a chance. Just hold it up if you don't know what the boss is doing. Also, the Shard of Alexander was my only damage talisman, everything else was defense. Got me through Ng+

[@ZugzugZugzugson]

see that's the problem, in order to trivialize the game (make it beatable without being an uber elite ninja souls gamer like "let me solo her") you need to play around a greatshield. anything short of that and you will not be able to tank damage without constantly stance breaking, and forget all about trying to guard without a shield at all. i tried to make a 2handed semi-tank build work and its honestly just not possible due to the bosses 19 hit combos. better off just playing dodge simulator.

[@zacg1924]

how fun the game reduced to just holding L1 and poking behind a great shield. The game has a problem if this is the most efficient strategy

[@roadle11223]

@@zacg1924 I wasn't referring to shield poking specifically, more like sword and shield, like how some of the starting classes begin. I just meant to keep a great shield equipped to give yourself some breathing room, as they aren't as heavy as they look (and are useful for more than guard counter spam). I kept a hammer and a seal in my right and one of the weaker great shields in my left, mostly blocking for the ranged 'nuke' abilities I wasn't sure how to dodge yet. Your mileage may vary on higher ng+ levels though.

[@SaladDongs]

coming in a bit late but I tended to feel quite the opposite when you were talking about the jetpack up a mountain analogy. I beat the base game without cheesing it, and I 100%'ed it. I felt somehwat happy and proud that I did so when everyone seemed to be playing with summons or weapons that were better than mine, because the difficulty was, for the most part, doable and pretty stable. Some exceptions were Malenia that felt overtuned, and Morgott/Margit that have quite almost undodgeable attacks requiring facetanking, but I still triumphed and felt good. But the DLC did feel like I was climbing with a pickaxe and the mountain was SOOO much more difficult, but ALSO there were so many more teleports and jetpacks, that you'd feel stupid not to use some. The variability in build strength had me going from barely doing any damage at all, to completely destroying bosses, without even feeling like I learned their moveset. The bosses felt like *they* weren't going to be fair, let me breathe or learn their style, so why should I be fair to them? So many weapons, buffs, spells and crystal tears, hell even shields were *busted* to the point where half of the entire set of new weapons is useless compared to the other half. Dunkey actually encapuslated this feeling well in his video specifically about game difficulty a few years ago now, "You have these severe difficulty spikes that feel overlooked, and what happens is the player starts pushing back [...] and when you push the game to its limits, sometimes, it cracks, and your enjoyment is ruined" I don't feel like I've learned almost any of the bosses, nor have I felt satisfaction in beating a lot of them. The only fair fight I think I've had was with Romina and I first tried her. The difficulty has fluctuated between utter bullshit and completely trivial because you're supposed to just kind of guess what amount of scadutrees is enough to beat the game but not enough to make it too easy, and figure out whether the weapon that took you through the entire base endgame can actually do anything if it doesn't have min/maxed stats and affinities or status effects. But in any case you should get gud I win 💀💀💀

[@GoldieRinglets]

Do you really not realize they have all the things you said it should have in the game? You can make the game easier, you can increase your flask recovery more than ever, you can increase your stamina recovery more than ever, the game has modular difficulty and all the patch did was front load the scaling of Scadutree fragments so people don’t have to find as many early on which is a great change the game shouldn’t punish you for not exploring but it keeps that if you get stuck you can explore get stronger and come back

[@oliverpease6719]

Even having all that I was still getting two shot at 60 vigor with 2 health talismans and max flasks on Radahn. I just think that fight might be bullshit, 10/10 DLC went to like a 6/10 by the end Edit: I also changed my build like 3 different times until I bit the bullet and used bloodfiend arm, but I had to for my sanity 😂

[@Hagosha]

@@oliverpease6719 me, with 55 vigor, no HP boosting talismans and a couple defense talismans/buffs surviving multiple fuck-ups: Like, Health is great, but defense/damage negation is literally OP

[@BasedBebs]

My issue is that I feel I'm being punished for not min-maxing or using a meta-build. I don't want to have to use a bleed build and jumping heavies and spirit summons and spells and incantations to defeat enemies but the game was balanced with all these things in mind and it seems like I'm playing the game wrong by using a melee weapon and nothing else.

[@FuriousMaximum]

I kinda agree; with Putrescent Knight, Romina and, Messmer, it really feels like I won because the CPU threw me a bone, instead of spamming their arena-covering, 7 swing,1-hit kill, homing, combo.

[@jeremyusername1548]

This DLC is a direct response to Everyone out there saying Elden Ring base game is the easiest fromsoft game. Maybe if everyone hadn’t acted so cool and try to posture about how easy the base game is, Miyazaki wouldn’t have tried so hard to remind us all who he is. I personally think they did a great job, I love this DLC and the Scadutree blessing system is a great way to maintain balance no matter when you enter the DLC. Use the items at your disposal. Use the dragon crest talisman, explore for fragments and get good folks. Great video, i appreciate you taking both sides and making valid points for both.

[@jeremyusername1548]

And above all else, git gud scrubs 💀

[@ShjadeNexayre]

(This got way longer than intended, sorry. It's not a "get good" rant, I promise, but it is mostly a disagreement/discussion of proposals.) Personally? I felt rewarded by exploration almost all the time. Aside from a few spaces that were basically just scenery (which is its own reward, of sorts), I pretty much either found something interesting or something useful wherever I went. I ended up with at least 5 different future character builds to try with gear I found that wasn't immediately useful for the character I was playing, but definitely wanted to try later, and the scadutree/ash blessing materials are all over the place. I thought exploration was amazing in the DLC. The smithing stones (less so the glovewort) are also useful for characters that aren't into the post-Leyndell game yet. You can go to the DLC very early, and having upgrade materials all over the place enables you to basically stay there rather than force you to go back and progress through the main game on that character just to upgrade your weapons. The base game also has a lot of "useless" items all over the place that you might want in your first playthrough for completionism's sake, and on subsequent playthroughs you'll probably remember to ignore that side path because you don't need what's in it. I wouldn't say the DLC map is any different in that respect. The fragments and revered ashes are basically just DLC upgrade materials, and you can treat them the same way you do smithing stones and gravewort: rush them to get overpowered early, get them as you go to build up naturally, ignore them if you feel like you don't need the boost, etc. I think it's a great improvement over their previous DLC which, by comparison, endgame builds often WOULD just immediately steamroll. This progression system (the original one; the updated version is kinda...too strong too fast, I'd say, although it does mean you can get by while finding fewer fragments if you don't enjoy the map exploration) gives the DLC content a better sense of pace than, say, Ashes of Ariandel and the Ringed City, which you can basically boss-rush and be done with in no time if you're already 120+ when you enter them. For your progression suggestion: I don't think player perception will change, and it wouldn't change the exploration issue if you think there is one, since the fragments would be new smithing stones instead. You'd still have to go out and find them if you can't deal with the current wall in front of you, and if you didn't get enough damage (and introduce an armor upgrade system to increase the defenses, which the blessing also does, to compensate for enemies having higher damage output?), you'd still feel like it's too hard, unfair, etc. This version of the system also wouldn't work at all for characters coming into it early, because if your weapon isn't already +25, you wouldn't be able to use the stones to bring it to +26 until you collected enough to get there, which would mean either doing extra DLC exploration to find all the lower-tier stones in it before you can even get to the DLC-tier progression level, or going back to vanilla before you can play more DLC content. Neither is as clean as just having the parallel progression track available to everyone at every level immediately upon entry to the DLC. Maybe I just wasn't using enough cheese (not out of elitism or anything, I just didn't want to build that way), but I'm honestly not sure what you're talking about when it comes to "tools being taken away." Infinite Comet Azur deletion is definitely off the table, and frankly some fights seem like they must be maddening as a pure caster, but then, I've never been good at playing pure caster, so maybe I'm just bad at the required tactics for it. My first full run of the DLC was done with a Milady mainhand (Wing Stance), Smithscript Daggers offhand, and good old Mimic Tear to draw aggro, for almost the entirety of the run. No new or extra gimmicks required, no min/maxing strats. The only exception was the very last boss which...yeah. Yeah, that one is way over the top. Point being, I didn't get the impression most of the DLC content "countered" anything new or specific. Tools weren't taken away. You're just climbing a more difficult mountain and your tools need more careful usage to work (and finding an abundance of blessings helps to soften the harsh weather up there). Related aside: I can't say I noticed most enemies, even bosses, being significantly harder to stagger *if you hit them consistently and hard enough,* but the sometimes ridiculous aggression/small windows to attack make it harder to do that consistent damage to get the stagger. Your fire knight spin example, for instance: jumping powerstanced/heavy attacks with at least a greatsword staggered that guy every time for me, and three powerstanced jumps (maybe two on a two-handed heavier weapon than my second run was using) opened him up for a crit. Seemed pretty normal. The Horned Warriors are the notable exception: I don't think I saw one of those even get poise-broken, much less stance-broken for a crit, in both playthroughs I've done so far. As far as I can tell they're just immune to stagger altogether, so I focus on either doing maximum dps or safe attacks instead and just assume their attack patterns won't be interrupted by anything I do. This video seems like it only approaches from the perspective of "how does the DLC feel going into it with a fully completed vanilla character that isn't interested in any of the options raised by new content", in which case I could see how it might come across as a bit bland, sure. To anyone not locked into a predetermined mindset of what is "better," however, it presents a number of new options, some of which are very strong indeed, others simply interesting or different (currently building a perfumer/archer that feels very different from anything I've tried before). I think it would be incorrect to cater to a purely perspective-based overreaction to new things, especially when it's only been out for a week. Give players a little time to get used to the new system, and for speedrunners and the like to post the new exploits and strats for players who rely on that content to absorb and incorporate, and I expect the fussing will die down without the need for many changes. (Really though that last boss, good lord, put a friggin' epilepsy warning on their fog gate or something, FromSoft. What the heck.)

[@jamesn0va]

Regarding your first point mention a single worthy reward in rouh base? Litteraly nothing there beyond a fee runes the back section is just empty. The abyssal forest was empty af as well but at least it has a gimic. Cerulean cost has a few items, but their location is so obvious they have to be gloveworts, etc. The river areas server as nothing but long loading screens with the occasional horse platforming. Exploration seems nice untill you pay attention and see your reward is runes or upgrade materials you don't need

[@ShjadeNexayre]

@@jamesn0va Rauh base? You mean one of the regions I want to reach ASAP on any build for The Poison Flower Blooms Twice? The area with a catacomb that has Knight's Lightning Spear for faith nuke builds and the Death Knight Longhaft Axe to further support that faith build with stylish melee options? You're right, can't think of anything there. My bad. Abyssal forest is tense as hell on first playthrough, and I'm not going to explain why in case anyone who hasn't been there yet is reading this. It has some interesting items for madness if you're into that, though since that's basically a pvp-only status I've never really cared much about it (I prefer builds that perform well in both pve and pvp), but the fun of exploration there is the area itself more than the gear you can find in it, I'd say. On second playthrough, eh, it's whatever, I'll probably never go back there because I don't need madness stuff, but I can say that about so many things in vanilla ER, too.

[@h445]

no, scenery isn't its own reward. it's a backdrop for a game that's supposed to offer tangible rewards. got jumped by two bigmouths and a wizard placing AOEs at your feet? here's a yellow flower, grats. stop fromsoft apologizing.

[@DwWarWolf]

​@@jamesn0vatwo handed Talisman is also in the Rauh base, a big game changer as now you can capitalize on dexterity builds that previously saw very little benefit from two handling other than a moveset change. I say that's pretty important.

[@youtubeuser4221]

I think you hit the nail on what's always felt off about Elden Ring compared to other Souls games. FromSoft went too hard into the spectacle of fights where bosses just don't seem to play by the same rules you do. Now you have normal enemies doing the same thing. I haven't started the expansion yet but I instantly feel like I either need to swap to a great shield tank build or relearn how to become a Parry God just to deal with the constant onslaught of attacks seemingly unhindered by the stamina bar I'm forces to work around. As requested, "Git Gud 💀"

[@robroskey6515]

Just in case you havnt figured this out a good trick to dodging is to roll into the attack and slightly to the side of the boss/enemy. I usually roll left towards their attack arm, and I get hit way less that way than rolling away/backwards or to the side. It makes it harder for them to track you too during flurry attacks. Most people's instict is to roll away

[@TheCoopsCorner]

For me, the DLC didn't feel like it was quite done. It was wide open, but sparsely populated. Lots to explore, but not a lot of rewards for doing so. The main bosses felt too move spammy, and the damage you take (even at level 16 and 8 respectively with the fragments) felt over the top; like it was making the game difficult for the sake of difficulty, rather than challenging through careful balancing. The bosses were cool, and the new areas looked great, but it just didn't seem like the DLC was done cooking yet, so to speak. That said, I did beat all but three of the bosses (Bayle and the final two) on my own via Melee with no magic and no buffs, and overall, I did enjoy the DLC. But it didn't come across as well crafted and polished as the base game (which was fantastic from start to finish). Oh, and git gud.

[@richardhandcock]

When Elden Ring first came out, I spent like an hour riding around Liurnia trying to find a way up to the Moonlight Altar area. I gave up and got there in the end through a quest. It wasn't an experience I particularly enjoyed to be honest, and the entire SotE map is basically this. Like I wanted to go find map fragments before exploring more, but over and over again every time I found a new area that I thought might finally have a path to the map fragment, it wasn't. I ended up looking up how to find them because I got so sick of it. The ONE time I felt like it was ok I still couldn't get to it was when I stumbled across St Trina's area. Other than that, I never found anything that made me glad I'd at least taken the journey, I just felt like I'd wasted more time. But once I checked out the guides and opened up the world, I started having a lot more fun riding around and finding stuff. I really hated the way the game was sort of playing 'keep away' with the map fragments, but aside from that I had a good experience with it. Exploration is kind of a one time thing, and wasn't my favourite part of the base game, so it's not a huge deal if the dlc fumbles in that area. But man did it fumble

[@pacnat_9069]

Honestly some of the complaints about the difficulty are so valid. I hate how there’s so many people that are just like “shut up, it’s not that hard, you’re just weak” instead of actually hearing out these complaints and thinking WHY there are so many in the first place. I beefed with all the remembrance bosses and honestly? It IS hard, even with all the scadutree fragments available. Fighting most bosses in the base game was incredibly satisfying because it feels like you’re given chance despite being knocked down. But it’s so hard to enjoy the DLCs bosses and learn their move sets when trying to learn feels very punishing

[@BigVorst]

I feel like even learning their moveset is kinda disappointing. Even with a fast weapon, I'll get one hit in to what I think is finally a damage window after god knows long of strafing, jumping, and dodging the relevant attack(s), perfectly reading each attack... Only for them to psyche me out and just start another long attack combo AGAIN. Which usually ends in me either trading my weaker hit for their absurd hit, or just not attacking. And I'm using a dex leaning quality build, I can't imagine STR builds are having much fun.

[@ZugzugZugzugson]

@@BigVorst strength build here, yeah its a pain... im specifically building around big slow attacks and the game basically refuse to give me openings at all and the few i do get are more often than not trades, which ultimately always leaves me the loser of said trade. you can also forget about poise, its basically irrelevant in boss fights even in the heaviest armor.

[@BigVorst]

@ZugzugZugzugson Yeah I feel for ya mate, and I've tried poise too. Plenty of bosses in this do knock downs, so it's not gonna do anything like you said, ahaha.

[@joshuanowlin443]

Exactly anybody who seriously tries to tell you the camera is not a problem for many of these bosses is just in denial.

[@DwWarWolf]

...shut up, it's not that hard. I hate the camera for Lion but overall as long as you stay away from the corners of the boss area it's manageable. Midra is easily staggered and has low resistance(and posture), Gaius is fucked worse fight for me personally. Finger Mommy's stupid spin move can be outrun. Rellana's combos extremely incentivize jumping attacks as you dodge a part of the combo and then are low enough to avoid another part of the combo. Messmer's snake phase increases the punish windows as it takes him more time to recover to shift back to his more difficult phase 1. Radahn phase 2 is absolutely bullshit but phase 1 other then his way to suck cross slash was my favorite individual phase for the entire dlc because he stands in stack contrast to Elden Ring with extremely intuitive dodge timings with lowered delayed attacks and gives you time to breathe occasionally if you stand just far enough away from melee range but to now have him dash in where he becomes passive long enough for healing. He stares with his gravity spin 90% that if not trying to summon lets you get a giant punish window for a fully charged r2 or rot pot meaning 90% of the fights you are ahead with a simple dodge. All ruined in the second phase of course.

[@gabzsy4924]

Some of the lesser boss encounters felt better boss designs, like old Dark Souls ones. For context, I started the DLC at SL 150, I don't like to use busted builds, I like the fashion and for the DLC I made a "viking" inspired build with a broadsword, spear, longbow and shield build. While I did have great success and fun exploring with said build, I can't say the same for bosses. It seems like I had to change my character completley just to satisfy a dps check the game wanted me to. While I feel like adapting to overcoming challanges is great for a game design, I feel like my build already covered most of the things that I wanted, ranged with the bow, long straight thrusts with the lance and short, fast and horizontal swipes with the broadsword for lesser enemies, all paired with a shield for the added protection and interaction with the lance. Instead what many bosses of the DLC wanted me to do was pick a VERY hard hitting weapon to take advantage of the very few and small hit windows the bosses give you, and double down on that one strategy, being with bleeding or raw power and thus fulfilling a dps check. One thing is to ask players to adapt, the other is to fit into a precise broken meta. Instead, if we look at the Blackgaol Knight or even the Black Knight that drops the Black Steel Greathammer fights its quite the opposite. These smaller encounters are what bosses used to be in Dark Souls and these can be very challenging fights by themselves that, obviously, can be trivialized if we put broken builds into the equation. For a bulild like mine though, I found them to be much more enjoyable, I could actually survive a couple of hits and learn the moveset, or parry windows, I stood more on the defensive and entered that "dance" stance that so many people idolize about these games. I only found that to be true with Messmer, Rellana, Romina and somewhat the Dancing Lion...the first one, the second one that summon those frogs can go f himself 😂

[@Rhadabrandt]

Why ppl dropped their shields? ER puts emphasis in blocking. Raise (ye shields,) ye tarnished! Enemies with long strings becomes a joke. Stop trying to dodge/jump everything and block. Stop using talismans that gives you offensive buffs and invest in defensive/resistance buffs instead. Honestly it's not that bad if just stand still and block with your tower shields. Bleed is not the answer to everything.

[@D_Abellus]

Yeah. I use a str faith build and while I don't use a shield often due to using big weapons, I offset that by using the defensive talismans, and I think a lot of people forget the talismans give a a decent percentage of defense that stacks with all other defense boosts. The +1 flamedrake talisman at vigor 60 and level 6 scadu blessing now doesn't even get one tapped by the wickermen, and still leave some with 20% hp, and their stomps three shot. I'm not wearing heavy armor either to offset damage even more, but its a comfortable amount to fight the wickemen. and for other bosses its easier to optimize for taking less damage.

[@Spills-y8g]

Claymore + Greatshield chads just keep winning

[@WhySoSeriousSenpai]

Yea had to do this and im glad i did i got poke the final boss to death

[@johndotcue]

Coz it’s not fun lol. I feel bored with shields. And I’ve been using shields through DLC and beat it. It’s not fun at all, I wanna use the leaf arts instead but I can’t beat it without a shield.

[@WhySoSeriousSenpai]

@@johndotcue bored!? blocking hits and getting a nice r2 is the best feeling in the entire game better then rolling like an idiot for 2 minutes straight while the boss does its never ending combo

[@HotPotSoup]

Great points and very eloquently put! I wonder if a solution to both the scadutree fragment problem and the anti-rocket boots bosses problem can be solved by giving players new tools in the toolbox for the DLC? For example the deflecting hardtear has received a lot of praise for changing the way the game can be played, if they're able to tie obtaining such game changing tools with scadutree fragments instead of it giving a flat stat bonus it could make the DLC progression system much clearer and intuitive to the players. Imagine a skill tree system to unlock the deflecting ability with scadutree fragments, or a shop that sells it for fragments. The tough part is making enough of these tools to cater to varied playstyles of players while making sure specific combinations of these don't break the game all over again, but it also frees up space for brand new boss designs. Lastly, git gud 💀

[@EatThePath-7]

That's starting to sound like Nioh 2 lol (which is good in my book), but i personally would have went with a 5th talisman slot where new playstyle defining options, like deflect, could have been implemented without having to worry about broken thing + broken thing trivializing the entire expansion or affecting boss design all that much.

[@HotPotSoup]

@@EatThePath-7 I love that idea! Similar to Destiny's seasonal mod system, an exclusive slot for the new gamechanging options unlocked with scadutree fragments

[@Phrostbyte007]

The first guy you show an opinion from I feel like is a TOTAL snowflake and whiner on every game I've seen him "review" in the past year.. I'm not the only one as he's lost quite a few subs for similar feelings. Just my personal view and opinion and feelings... I personally can't stand him.. but.. I'm totally sure there are MANY more who love his channel and I'm a 'no one' as far as KZbin is concerned... I bring this up as I feel like it taints your video a touch... ALTHOUGH your discussion is astute, well thought out and balanced.. and, I do appreciate your channel! Also, great video over all as usual on your channel! Last I should say I'm not out to trigger or offend ppl, but feel I have the right to voice my concerns regarding what I feel like ppl have evolved into for a simple and direct statement; whiner for the sake of whining IMHO. Doesn't make me right, but something I've tried to avoid especially when I see these changes without good rationals.. and not that the gentleman I'm referring to doesn't have very good opinions as well, I just feel like I've described regarding his channel... Anyway Great video overall! Best, "Nic"

[@sneaky5141]

nothing is too difficult outside of the final boss and the abhorrent npc gank before him "just summon" is not valid defense of awful design. if ganks were bad in dark souls 2 then they are bad here too. you cannot criticise dark souls 2 for the same things you are ignoring or praising here.

[@Z3d195]

The whole point of the npc gank was to summon…

[@sneaky5141]

@@Z3d195 the whole point of the coop areas with ganks in DS2 was to summon. it was literally advertised as such and many NPC summons were available there too. if its bad there then its bad here.

[@Z3d195]

@@sneaky5141 yeah but ur acting like every boss is like that, when literally only one of them requires you to summon, and for the most part the summons are story related so it make sense . I’m not a fan of it, but it’s leagues better than ds2, and the remembrance bosses more than make up for it.

[@sneaky5141]

@@Z3d195 0 bosses in a DS2 required you to summon, leda can be a 5v1 and for most blind players its gonna be a 4v1 or a 5v1 if they solo it and explored before blindly figuring out obscure fromsoft side quests if you can solo that without blood tax nagakiba abuse then idkur different different, the best player in the world perhaps, certainly better than gino

[@Z3d195]

@@sneaky5141 bro I know you’re not tryna say ds2 is not guilty when most of its boss fights especially npcs we’re ganks😂😂😂 u belong in the ds2 subreddit w the rest of the insufferables stay in your place. And no first time on a blind playthrough had ansbach and thollier summons, I know of plenty others who did too. Your just coping because this dlc shits all over Ds2, just like every other souls game. Or maybe your here crying because the DLC was “too hard” so your taking it back to the good old days of ds2. Take them nostalgia goggles off bro

[@naterod]

The souls formula used to be that the enemies including bosses played by the same rules that we did. The movesets were manageable and fair. Everyone got used to it, so now they play by another set of rules. Now instead of a 5 move combo it’s like 20 move combo that is impossible to dodge for most normal players.

[@laughingman9574]

Bosses never played by the same rules and they shouldn't. That is why they are the bosses. Movesets in ER are also manageable, just harder to learn.

[@ColorsFadeGaming]

Get Gud 💀 But seriously, nice work on the video. The "too much time dodging, not enough time attacking" analysis was something I noticed with a few bosses in the base game, but FromSoft really cranked it up in the DLC. Much the same way they took "geography as a puzzle" and cranked that up to eleven as well. Nice to hear others talk about it.

[@velotti2109]

I love playing a fast paced playstyle with lots of dodging and counter attacks. Well, there’s plenty of dodging, but no room for counter attacks. I feel like I have just as few attack opportunities as a full tanky turtle build, but with a hundred times the effort and infinitely more risk. All I can do is the occasional poke while watching the boss have all the fun.

[@ramoraid]

🤷 Parry or use certain poise breaking attacks, rellana can be parried mid combos as well as mydra.

[@wafflecone6968]

Parrying is notoriously unreliable and tedious now because you need 3 parries to get a reposte.

[@velotti2109]

Rellana has a lot of good attack opportunities after she uses all her big skills - I think the main problem I have is with the final boss, who takes everything you’ve learned throughout the game and tosses it out the window. Ultimately it’s not so much an engaging fight as it is a battle of attrition. I got through it after enough practice but it just didn’t feel fun like the previous bosses and I didn’t really feel any joy in beating him. I had never parried before and ultimately learned how to parry in the final fight, so at least I gained a new skill lol

[@ramoraid]

@@wafflecone6968 not all bosses rellana needs 2, mydra needs 3 but his slow swings make it annoying

[@flamingmanure]

spoken like ds3/bb fanboys that still havent learned proper dodge direction and spam R1 and backwards dodge all the time. guess this objectively false joseph anderson delusion still plagues you souls veterans. glad fromsoft ignored you folks and made the bosses even mroe aggressive XD

[@juggernaut6666]

The damage of the trash mobs on ng+ is absurd. While I didn't get "one shot" by them. If i got grabbed, it was about the same as when malenia grabbed and impaled me, which is ridiculous. A guy with a cleaver got the jump on me from behind a waterfall. One hit did more than an entire max rank estus flask. After the buff to the early ranks of the shadow tree blessing, it should be better now. But those early levels were awful.

[@SuperLapulce]

Not enough vigor or lack of armor/talisman. I'm playing NG+5 and no mob kills with less than three hits.

[@fastgunnns3881]

I have two guesses as to why there are many bolsering items in SoTE 1. They originally wanted to make it a bit more of an early game area where it was far more difficult but also far more rewarding in the way of upgrade materials. 2. They originally wanted to make the DLC bigger, but due to time constraints, they ended up not adding everything they wanted I believe the latter guess is more likely than the former because of how many weapon classes that were added in the DLC only to house a few weapons. Examples would be Hand-to-hand arts, thrusting shields, beast claws, etc. Edited because i accidentally posted it before i was finished.

[@w4tch0ut10]

I played through Haligtree and Farum Azula after the dlc on my new character and those areas felt more difficult than 90% of the new content. It feels like even when put into comparison, I receive more damage and deal less. Even the prawns in Haligtree feel more dangerous to me than those in the dlc ruins (tho admittedly, Malenia was pretty easy the second time 😅)

[@DwWarWolf]

Your not wrong feeling this way. The final boss has 46000 health when Malenia has only 33000 in comparison...but if you have max blessing the final boss actually has around 23000 because you're doing twice as much damage compared to Malenia.

[@treefittyforall]

It's funny you say this. I thought the same thing, too. I figured going back to the Haligtree would feel a little easier. That area is way harder than the DLC, if you have at least level 15 blessing to make you stronger for the DLC. Coming back to reality in the base game you lose it and FEEL IT. The mobs hit so hard. Those two knights near the entry way by the grace where you're behind the ballista soldiers. They are like mini-bosses themselves. I am 150 with powerful spells and I wasn't chunking them like I would the ones in the DLC. I felt underleveled in that area.

[@doctorale84]

Opposite experience, I went back to the Haligtree to get an item to help me in DLC and I absolutely decimated them. Maybe I had a stronger build this time?

[@barbedmitten4475]

@@DwWarWolfthe final boss has around 100,000 health

[@DwWarWolf]

@@barbedmitten4475 I love seeing people be confidently incorrect. No he has 46000 that's divided by half because all damage against him is doubled by blessing +19. Base game's final boss is 13000 (Radagon) + 33000 (Elden Beast) Even in NG+, no boss gets to have 100000

[@ChroniclesofNoria]

As always Mugthief, you give such a detailed, objective analysis of the game and how to better play and enjoy the game, whilst highlighting what could have been done better, and what people are reacting to. Thank you. Get gud 💀

[@MetalDragon5745]

Ya not everyone wants to run sword and board and that is the most effective build for the majority of the DLC and that kills build diversity.

[@JackalArtsmith]

Honestly my biggest issue with the DLC is they balanced entirely for the high damage builds that come with strength and overall ooga booga stuff. It's really disheartening that the Milady for instance is very fun to use, but dex builds suck, because you'll be fighting a tedious boss that takes a strength build user 5-10 minutes

[@charleswright8294]

I recently fought Mr. 18 inches (for the third time total) with a frost infused light great sword, on NG+3, and it was easily the most joy I've felt in the DLC and probably Elden Ring as a whole. idk why, but sometimes the right weapon and the right boss just click, and it's then that you feel joy, not relief. also I do think Messmer is by far the most fun, well made boss of the DLC, so that helps. also, git gud💀

[@AriaValentini]

Dont a lot of the armors have passive effects that the base game doesnt? So isnt that an upgrade?

[@BagelBoi4000]

Can you explain how spells, mimic tear and high poise damage crutches have been removed from the dlc? Ive only done the first 2 bosses but I didnt see how these things would be less effective (I didnt use any of spells unless you count a lightning buff on my sword vs rennala 2 because shes stood in water, so its hard to see for this one). I certainly found myself able to still use summons, I love throwing latenna down in a corner because she increases my dps wihout fucking with my boss agro, and only once or twice did the boss rush me down before I could pull that off. And I also still found it fairly reasonable to stance break, I was using the m'lady and still got multiple staggers per battle, but maybe thats because latenna is very good at stopping stance damage decay.

[@Dorrovian]

They are not, they are still perfectly viable. Also these are not crutches, just normal part of the game From Soft wants you to use, as even Miyazaki just said openly.

[@robroskey6515]

@@Dorrovian those crutches are perfectly viable to use. something that helps you do something easier that you're struggling with is pretty much the definition of a crutch. No reason to be defensive about using them, as you said they put them in the game to help certain the people that choose to use them. It's not like you're using a cheat mod like the one people used for sekiro

[@Dorrovian]

@@robroskey6515 Get out with your gatekeeping, it's people like you who give these games' communities bad reputation.

[@robertspeedwagon982]

Latenna probably helped with the stance break as continuous attacks keep the stance meter from going back to 0 between hits. Because of the bosses agression and movement pure caster builds have a very hard time getting openings to cast a spell and that spell effectively hitting the boss.

[@andrewhill3278]

As someone who did NOT find the DLC too difficult, save the last boss, but who had difficulty articulating his mixed feelings upon finishing the DLC, I appreciate how thoughtful your analysis is. I'm now helping people fight bosses but I completely changed my build (but thankfully not my specs) and I am annoyed at how much easier a lot of thr bosses became. (Went from a dual teinblade strength bleed to a heavy load bloody pokey tank.)I feel like I lost my toys, just as you said.

[@redman0027]

I've been thinking about the DLC a lot the past few days, and I beat it and honestly... I think I hate it. Scadutree fragments directly effecting defenses was a mistake it should have been something else (I think maybe healing or something would have been better to make it feel less required, 50% damage reduction is actually so stupid). I beat the bosses in only a few tries but frankly I hated a lot of them, I'll be honest I never want to fight several of them ever again. The problem is I love the regions, I love the aesthetics and it feels if the bosses and progression didn't feel bad to me it would be a 10/10. I WANT THIS TO BE A 10/10. I'm just so sad, it feels like such a shitty send off to me. Maybe I'm alone, maybe people will say I'm a baby and I should get good or whatever, but no one can change how I feel at this point. I hate this all more because it feels like there could have been something great in here, but its clearly not for me, even though I played the base game for 600 hours and I'm going to touch this DLC for maybe 25 and never go back. Replaying the DLC just sort of reminds me of HAVING to find Scadutree fragments to make the bosses more reasonable just feels like shit. If I could get a refund I would because I'm very close to never wanting to engage with the DLC ever again. Edit: I hadn't finished the entirety of your video, but you said the following, and forgive me if I get a little wrong here: Mimic tear, high poise damage, hyper armor abilities are a crutch and they are gone. I've played through the DLC twice and the easiest time I had was a dude spamming the hell out of lion's claw. Almost no boss has any answer to a guy that can't be stopped with a mimic tear that cant be stopped smashing their head in. I would go as far as to say it is in fact the EASIEST way to beat every boss except the last one because you can just tank through it with enough scadutree upgrades without issue at all.

[@jranjos2]

This is the closest i've seen someone's feeling towards this dlc to be as close as mine. Aside of mesmer, sunflower and midra. All the bosses were a big disappointment. Difficulty not really being an issue, finished my first playthrough with scadlvl 16 and dmge/def felt fine, But the agression and camera made everything much worse.

[@flamingmanure]

​@@jranjos2no offense, but spoken like ds3/bb fanboys that still havent learned proper dodge direction and spam R1 and backwards dodge all the time. the aggression is what makes them great once you learn proper dodge direction, and didnt have a single camera issue, not even in the hippo fight, i just stuck to the middle of the arena and was fine.

[@jranjos2]

@flamingmanure never played bloodborne, did ds3 and sekiro. Not really a fanboy of anything. Thats just how I felt even after beating the game. I play on pc keyboard and mouse, maybe it's different for controller/console. But camera and monitor issues were common in all 3 fromsoft games I played. Also rolling in specific directions was never the issue. Managed to kill everything once I stopped locking target for bosses. The game is still fun, just disappointing at the same time.

[@ZugzugZugzugson]

tank build enjoyer here. even at max scadutree fragments, heavy armor, 60 vigour and fully decked in tank talismans for 71% physical negation and upwards of 60% in every elemental negation, with 101 poise i am getting clapped if a boss or even standard mob attack goes through my guard. its absurd tbh. i spend more time getting back on my feet after being pancaked by whatever bullshit the game constantly throws at me than i do actually throwing attacks back at the enemy.

[@theresnothinghere1745]

@@ZugzugZugzugson 71% is not that high for a tank build, you can reach that with much lighter armors in the dlc. If you are planning on tanking a lot you need to do some buff management, even if its just as simple as using endure and crabs. if you go crazy with it you can get to 90%+.

[@mactiger98]

You nailed one key issue ablut this DLC that I think bugs people the most: it feels annoying. Fighting the bosses and some of the regular enemies is ANNOYING. The you don't overcome a challenging fight, you overcome an annoying one. I can see what i need to learn to beat X boss, i just can't be bothered, they escalated to the point of being boring and obnoxious

[@mstirlz]

Every boss I beat in the game felt like pure luck or cheese. Not fun at all.

[@schadowsshade7870]

Most bosses have a lot of openings: You can strafe like all of dancing lion and Midra, jump all of Messmer and Romina and Bayle has many openings for spells, if you can’t find them, watch a hitless run and get gud 💀

[@sd5919]

I agree with this. If From shortens enemy combo strings, gets rid of the awkward delayed attacks that try to throw off your dodge roll timing, and reduce the amount of AOE bombs combat would be a lot better.

[@JTsHorrorDiscussions]

yea, and then we'd be right back at Demon's Souls-DS2 combat. We've been there. There's a reason nowadays those early games are looked at as the easiest. But sure let's go back to that

[@tannonolson5344]

You know the dlc was fire when people are treating it like its a whole new game

[@mitchsirois606]

You're kinda right, I realise I've treated this dlc like I treated Dark Souls 2. I beat it once, then went back to Dark Souls 1.

[@koktszfung]

Look at the price brother

[@lordaizen8004]

I swear I disagree with almost EVERY comment I see about this DLC. It is not “too difficult”. There are PLENTY of awesome trinkets and rewards around SO MANY corners, far more than “10%” You said it saddened you that people were being hyperbolic and then proceed to say something as ridiculous and extreme as that. Like you gotta be kidding bro 😤😮‍💨🤦‍♂️🤷🏼‍♂️

[@luischurchill-marques153]

I feel like people are not playing elden ring, they're playing DS3. I love DS3 but that game was heavily criticised for its lacklustre build options basically being an R1 spam and dodge roll spam game. Now in elden ring there are more options and creative build opportunities than ever with all major builds not only being viable but incredibly powerful if you utilise all the tools the game gives you such as talismans the physic buffs and so on. And yet when for years people have been belittling and making fun of people that use these "cheese" mechanics and use the same strength build they've used since demons souls (what i mean by they're still playing DS3) despite the fact the enemy and boss design has been evolving with the vast amount of powerful tools players now have access to create cool interesting builds and engage with an open world RPG with an emphasise of personal experience, They complain its too hard because their ego only allows them to scratch the surface and the potential this game offers. I saw someone kill radahn in 2 hits. thats not "cheese" or a "crutch" thats using the items and tools they found from exploring to be creative and combine put together a huge burst of damage using the new perfume weapon rewarding individual experimentation and exploration with great results. plus this is a PVE game mostly and if someone wants to be overpowered they can. Miyazaki has absolutely killed it with how he's handled difficulty without destroying the game and what makes this series special by not adding an easy mode but allowing for an extremely easy experience for those who engage with the tools found through explorations to tailor the game to their own experience.

[@JohnDoe-sq5nv]

Even when only limiting yourself to basic combat with a strength build people would have a much easier time if they simply stopped R1 roll spamming. You are completely right, people play like this is Dark Souls 3 and are, for whatever reason, being extremely reductive when talking about or even thinking about the combat in this game.

[@supremcaos]

"their ego" have you considered that perhaps that's how people enjoy these games? I don't like to oneshot a boss with a lightbeam while my summons take agro after I followed a step by step guide on how to create that build from a KZbin video. You like that? Great, until the devs invalidate my playstyle to force other people with busted builds to actually engage with the game. The base game lets me play the game the same way I've always had, the DLC makes it a chore. Call me boring but all it takes to take away the joy of victory for me is to use summons, let alone busted magic.

[@luischurchill-marques153]

@@supremcaos that’s fine. But as long as you acknowledge it’s not the game that’s too hard it’s your self imposed rule. And not every good build is only found on KZbin. I don’t know who you’ve been talking to but we are not babies we are capable of finding the things we need thorough exploration and creating our own builds without a guide. My point was not that you style of play is incorrect, that would be hypocritical it’s just that not it is not the strongest like magic wasn’t the strongest in ds3 and if you want an easier time you have to adapt or bang your head against the wall. It’s entirely your choice but you can’t call the game too hard when the tools to make it easier are right in front of you and wether it be personal preference like yourself or ego like the twitter mob it is your decision to not utilise them it’s not the games fault.

[@supremcaos]

@@luischurchill-marques153 i can call it boring and somewhat of a betrayal to players that have been playing that way since the start, both of which are arguably worse than top hard.

[@JTsHorrorDiscussions]

@@supremcaos i don't know about other players, but I started with Dark Souls 13 years ago, beaten every game up to ER at lvl1, doing sl1 +0 no roll/block/parry challenges for years now. Not saying this as a flex at all, not everyone enjoys learning the insane intricacies of one boss for hours or days on end under all those restrictions. My point is, every boss in this series is doable at lvl 1 +0 weapon without rolling, blocking, parrying, buffs, rings etc, and have been done by handfuls of great players. Hell some in the community have already put out rl1 max ng no roll kills out up to around Messmer and Bayle. Now add the fact that every player regardless of skill has access to leveling, plus the scadutree fragments. summons, spirit ashes, ashes of war, max upgraded weapons, etc. The difficulty is absolutely fine and is how it always has been. You can take the time to learn the bosses AI, where to position yourself to severely limit their moveset and gain huge punish windows. or, you can just blast away at a boss until you beat it and never look back. There is no right or wrong way, it's up to each players individual enjoyment. The issue many of us have is hearing comments regarding difficulty such as "there are no punish windows", "the bosses don't stop attacking", "this move is unavoidable". Yes there are, yes they do, and no it isn't if you're willing to learn where to position, where to stand to avoid certain moves or combos altogether, baitable combos, it goes on.

[@tedborne]

My problem is not it being dificult, but the new design philosophy for boss fights in from software games recently. Like, thos absolute paychopathic bosses who wont stop attacking and charging at you even for a second, they qint let breathe let alone respond to their shit. Not only it makes the game not fun since im forced to be just defensive in order to learn their attack patterns, and even after i learn them it still makes me feel like I'm the one getting attacked, always, even if i learn to just destroy them, which again, makes the game less fun as I'm not partaking in the combat as i wanted. But also, it comoeltely takes away the feeling i always had of being in an epic duel of me against a powerful being i need to outdo, and instead more like a brawl. In which the other guy can just smash me unless i fucking fight for my life with every cell in my body. I just font care abt it, and if from is going to make this their new thing from now on I'm not interested anymore. Most bosses in the dlc are fine and actually some of the best ever, but commander Gaius, Messmer and Radahn, specially Radahn just made me realize that i was not having fun with it anynore.

[@pinealdreams1064]

People called DS3 a 'press R1 simulator' and I completely agree and understand the complaints. HOWEVER, ER's made me appreciate DS3 in a brand new way. It's simple, diluted fun. Dodge and smeck. While builds are possible not many people really mess around with them outside of PVP, and most stick to a sword and/or shield and ol' reliable tactics. It's far easier than ER, sure, but it's also far more fun. I love ER. I really do. But as time goes by I yearn more for a Bloodborne 2.

[@ixiahj]

I think after 2 years, some people went into the dlc with a max level character on ng +7. If your levels don't matter and you missed 7 sets of scadutrees, your character's gonna get steam rolled.

[@Malkai_270]

I don’t think scadutrees stack on each playthrough, once you get to plus 20 that’s it you can only level up your stats through ruins.

[@KNGDDDE]

Nah, I switched off my ng character. Found it pointless too grind with a weakling.

[@FurieMan]

2:40 I would say most of the time I explored I was rewarded for it. Like 80% of the time. I found most of the areas in the game by myself. I think there was just one that I missed because I thought I had already gone down a specific path.

[@quis9795]

Same bro finding most of the remembrance bosses, weapons and ash of wars, and secrets areas from just going in a random catacombs had me in awe.

[@ronthorn3]

Right, 100% agree, even if I found items that weren’t that special, the journeys WAS special,such a beautiful world crafted with so much care and love, and man to think they made this dlc in just a few years or less, is astonishing. How long did it take for Nintendo to make BOTW 1.5? Like 6 years? Fromsoft is a beast, and always has my $.

[@jamiesullivan6602]

Exceptional video. Thank you so much for putting into words so much of what I felt about SotE. Especially the ratio of dodging to attacking in boss and enemy battles, the less tangible sensation of progression, and the insane escalations of "nuke the arena" attacks. I am not sure I ever truly felt like I was dancing with a boss, and at the end of every battle, I felt fatigued and relieved, not elevated. It was a good DLC, but I agree it feels like they're reaching the limit of what they can do.

[@wavestrider2160]

Great well thought out video! I personally believe that the extra ammpunt of gloveworts and smithing stone is meant to facilitate buildcrafting with the many new items they added, though i have to admit i think maybe they should just provide ancient variants only since the rest is easily purchasable in the base game I also agree with the over agressiveness of bosses, thought i've yet to face all of the bosses, I've seen several that genuinely made me feel "Ok im going to cheese, idc anymore, this needs to die" Or "Im not in control over that situation at all, that was pure luck"

[@aquinno722]

200 fragments… not the korok seeds….

[@KyngD469]

Can you imagine? The game is already cryptic as hell. Imagine having to kick over every pile of rock you see just for a 00.5% stat boost. tf is bro yapping about?