Why Everyone Adapts Pinocchio Wrong

[@WillScarlet16]

Del Toro's version has more in common with the 1940 Disney film than people realize - they both make the same ideological break with the novel. In Carlo Collodi's book Pinocchio is treated as inherently evil from the time he's created, and the other characters are constantly chastising him for his evil nature, and even when he's clearly being manipulated by evil adults, Collodi always heaps more judgment on him. Disney and Del Toro both have a more balanced understanding of children - Pinocchio is not "bad" but inexperienced, and both of those movie versions make it plain that the adults exploiting him are more guilty than he is, something that never seemed to occur to Collodi.

[@ModernMouse]

Collodi really didn't care for children and you can tell by how society views Pinocchio as Frankenstein's monster. For sure Walt Disney and Guillermo Del Toro have a softer approach and are much more kind to the character. Great point!

[@hieithefox]

@@ModernMouse this reading the original as a kid I definitely picked up he didn’t like children and as much as I didn’t really like the Disney version it was boring in the non scary moments for me I still preferred it in some ways

[@karolinakuc4783]

@@hieithefox Then you'd love Japanese Pinokio series from 1972. Lots of dark scenes. And I like that characters do not always progress in character developement that sometimes there is regres but the one that is realisticly depicted.

[@whiteeye9584]

i would say dell torro is oposite of original book and not ballance because collodi make this book to teach chirlden to be better version on themselfs and responcibility delloto on other hand add fassist fethish and shit on responcybility and make pinocio stay wooden puppet for reast of life wich is pointless

[@whiteeye9584]

@@ModernMouse kind my ass sure children are innocence but also selfish and saying that he hated them is strong word

[@Oscar95451]

Guillermo del Toro's Pinocchio is one of my two favorite animated Pinocchio adaptation, alongside Disney's ORIGINAL one.

[@ModernMouse]

After spending far too long watching Pinocchio adaptations I can say that I agree with you. There is also a special place in my heart for Spielberg's A.I. but I know it's not an amazing film.

[@ReadThisIfYourG3y]

THaT Was NoT ThE FIrsT OnE

[@gRinchY-op5vr]

The fox character is "technically" in Guillermo Del Toro's version, he decided the villain (Stromboli) was boring and decided to change things up by combining his role with the foxes. Little hints like the hair, the fox head on the cane he walks with and carvings on his caravan are there...I didn't notice them at first but my partner pointed them out to me when we watched 🙂

[@ModernMouse]

You are correct, and while he fills two roles, I think he pulls the charismatic charm from the Fox more so than being a guide to Pinocchio's unethical behavior. Del Toro combining the circus leader and fox character together was one of many strokes of genius throughout the film and I think it made way for Pinocchio to find his own path rather than being guided by someone.

[@gRinchY-op5vr]

@Modern Mouse watched it maybe 4 times now since it hit Netflix and I keep finding other things that were snuck in from either the book, other stories similar and even the Disney version...more now I've gone through its trivia page. Not sure what I really expected from Disney's remake but it was disappointing, even more next to this version. This is how you take a classic story, keep to it enough its recognisable and still do your own thing with it and leave your mark on it. EDIT - the combined villain thing reminded me of the 1996 live action film, until Del Toros version that was probably my favourite version of this story

[@ModernMouse]

@@gRinchY-op5vr I did a ton of research for this video prior to watching the Del Toro version so when I watched it I was really delighted. I could point out the inspirations left and right. It felt like Del Toro did a ton of homework to write and make this movie. You can tell he is a fan first and a filmmaker second.

[@critter9522]

His name is also Volpe which means fox in Italian

[@gRinchY-op5vr]

@@critter9522 forgot that one!

[@teddyfurstman1997]

Del Toro's version of Pinocchio feels so natural and timeless while keeping the dark elements like War, the Facists Italian setting and Death, but it was all subtle. It's also a tearjerker.

[@ModernMouse]

Del Toro definitely pulled from Collodi's Italian heritage and the politics he was against. It's definitely something you'd have to research to know but it's a cool nod from the filmmaker.

[@whiteeye9584]

natural my ass and why he added faccist elements to this does he have fethish or what

[@VMeral]

Call me weird but all the Pinocchio movies are scary to me He gets eaten, kidnapped and turned into a donkey and get's taken advantage of for money all in one movie, thats scary stuff.

[@ModernMouse]

That's definitely the vision Carlo Collodi had when he wrote the story. He wanted to scare morality into you. (Truthfully many children's stories were that way.)

[@AnABSOLUTEBarbarian]

I LOVED Pinocchio as a toddler. To the point when I was first old enough to be asked what I wanted to be for Halloween I chose Pinocchio. I also loved Wizard of Oz but more-so Return to Oz. Always things whimsical but creepy and terrifying when actualized. I never named it but much to my surprise a KZbin video explores the genre and gave me the name for it, Children’s Surrealist Horror. Which tracks because I love surrealism but kind of threw me because I don’t care for horror in the traditional sense…but yeah I guess that’s what I’m into. And that’s my very round about way of confirming the terror of the story of Pinocchio…because I loved it lol.

[@JohnnyV83]

Counterpoint: Disney softened Pinocchio so much by trying to make Pinocchio so endearing out the gate and actually got it wrong (and derailed future adaptations). If you want an odd but still endearing adaptation you can check out the 52-episode Tatsunoko anime from the 70s. If you'd prefer an appetizer, Saban brought it to home-video and condensed the series down to a 90 minute movie.

[@ModernMouse]

Thanks for the suggestion!

[@joereinis640]

I hadn’t seen any of the Pauly shore version, until the final video came out, and the part 8:09 where the cat shoots Pinocchio with a gun, and simultaneously dumber looking, and more terrifyingly out of place in a kids’ movie than I was picturing

[@ModernMouse]

I don't know. Jon Heder making horsie sounds really is magnificent.

[@pap64]

If we talking wild Pinocchio adaptations, Filmmation's "sequel" film "Pinocchio and the Emperor of the Night" lands right up there. I remember watching it as a kid and legit being more afraid of it than Disney's version! Pinocchio is already a real boy, but he still has to face the same temptations as in the other adaptations, except they are far more psychedelic and even deranged! Some scenes don't even make sense; we go from Pinocchio drinking what is essentially absinthe, then tripping with all the boys and girls of Pleasure Island warping around him as they laugh at him...only to be escorted into a stage where he performs and dances in a very 80s flash dance Sequence...and there is a monkey and a raccoon in drag... Yeah, suddenly the Pauly Shore version has more cohesion to its narrative.

[@ModernMouse]

I've never heard of this one! I guess I'll add it to my list of things I'd like to watch but will hate myself for afterwards.

[@pap64]

@@ModernMouse the whole movie is available on KZbin to watch; it was part of what was meant to be a series of sequel films based on the classic Disney fairy tale films animated and produced by Filmmation (the creators of He-Man and She-Ra). They made a sequel film to Snow White called "Happily Ever After" which takes place after the Queen is killed and Snow White is living with her prince. The crazy part is that the Dwarves have cousins that are just opposite gender versions of the Dwarves. But yeah, "Emperor of the Night" is just insane with how it blends horror, surreal imagery, and general creepiness often trying to be subdued by cartoon comedy. The Emperor himself is voiced by James Earl Jones if I am not mistaken.

[@ModernMouse]

@@pap64 I'll definitely give it a watch. It sounds wild!

[@WillowTitov]

Longer videos with side tangents are my lifeblood. It's what we need more of, not less.

[@ModernMouse]

Then you've come to the right place

[@melodyscorpion6606]

Oh, a good take? There are only positive things I can say about Del Toro's Pinocchio. Minor inconveniences mean nothing in the grand scheme if a film can genuinely pull me in and give me a satisfying start to finish. Del Toro knows how a child protagonist works unlike most studios.

[@ModernMouse]

Glad you loved Del Toro's version so much. He really does understand the mind of a child and how to treat them in a film.

[@melodyscorpion6606]

@Modern Mouse yeah, definitely. What bothers me about most animation films is their child protagonists either have no personality because they're so matured or they act too bratty. Del Toro found a balance. Pinocchio was an interesting character and even if he was a bit wild, you could understand why.

[@ModernMouse]

@@melodyscorpion6606 This is actually why I kind of like A.I. as a guilty pleasure film. David does things a kid would do, especially in the first half of the film. He unintentionally does bad things but he is naive to them. That's Spielberg though. His films that feature children have always gone above and beyond.

[@meta527II]

I love how everyone complained about the original Disney Pinocchio movie for making him a brat, yet they also complain about the remake for making him too well-behaved in the Disney 2022 version. Make up your minds, people!

[@ModernMouse]

I personally don't have that complaint and i don't think I made it in the video. I've actually seen more people state that the Pinocchio in Del Toro's version is a brat, which is much more in line with the original Collodi story.

[@meta527II]

@@ModernMouse I was actually referring to the 2022 Disney one. Sorry for not making that clear. Here, I'll edit my original comment.

[@octogonSmuggler]

To be fair, the del Toro one looks better than the remake.

[@ModernMouse]

The Del Toro Pinocchio looks fantastic.

[@christianali5431]

The Del Toro one IS a remake. There was a book before.

[@j.d.t.5761]

@@christianali5431 Adaption, not exactly a remake.

[@maddiedoesntkno]

I feel like the political activist and writer that was Collodi would appreciate the setting of Del Toro’s Pinocchio

[@ModernMouse]

The moment I realized the movie was set between World Wars I thought the exact same thing!

[@glazdarklee1683]

This video was a lot of fun to watch. In regard to the adaptability of the Pinocchio story, I must mention a1960s animated version called "Pinocchio in Outer Space." I loved it as a kid because it had some super-cool sequences on Mars. As an adult I revisited this movie, and learned the valuable life-lesson that some things lodged in your childhood memory should remain undisturbed. Although the sequences on Mars are still super-cool.

[@ModernMouse]

I've had a few of those "should have stayed in the past viewings"

[@ModernMouse]

Check out the rest of this season to find out who keeps calling and why --- tinyurl.com/2wfanjjb What is your favorite adaptation of Pinocchio?

[@Michallote]

To me honestly Del Toro is probably the best one. Disney remake is simply souless. I really have lost all respect for the company.

[@ModernMouse]

Del Toro's is for sure the best of the bunch by a mile. As far as Disney, I honestly don't think we have many more years of remakes ahead. They initially made them because people showed up in theaters for it but I think audiences are less excited for them now. I'll hold off on my personal thoughts for another video down the line but economically they got made because people showed up. I could see a potential changing of the guard in Disney live action filmmaking sooner than later.

[@styxxalembers]

Disney has just turned into a cooperate conglomerate by now, I like the old Disney better...

[@tanishamuntslag6369]

I think Del toro's version is one of the better pinnochio adaptations .it did it's own thing to be unique

[@ModernMouse]

I agree. To me it falls in line with the comparison I made to West Side Story. It changed it enough to make it relevant to a contemporary audience and it created some of it's own lore along the way.

[@Prettygirlcn5]

So which Pinocchio version would you rank as the best of them?

[@ModernMouse]

That's a good question. Of all of the Pinocchio films ever made I can't be for certain because I haven't watched every single one but of the ones that came out in 2022 I'd rank them as: 1. Guillermo Del Toro's Pinocchio . . . 2. Disney's Pinocchio 3. Pauly Shore Pinocchio Del Toro's version is far and away the best. It makes the other two look like jokes comparitively.

[@Winterlude_Music]

Is no one talking about the zoom call segments?? " 'TeLL mE, pApA!!' * heavy sigh *"

[@ModernMouse]

I've got 27 pages of really good dialogue and Joe doesn't wanna do it!

[@underwatersphinx1148]

Just in case no one's pointed this out yet, the "Pauly Shore" Pinocchio film that came out last year was an English dub of a Russian film (also released early last year). The dub is, from what I've heard, not accurate to the Russian script, which itself is more based on Alexsey Tolstoy's "Buratino" (the Russian answer to Pinocchio) than on Carlo Collodi's story.

[@ModernMouse]

I actually meant to write into the script that the film was originally produced in Russia but spaced that out. I'm not familiar with Buratino so I'll look into that! Sounds interesting.

[@jerrelljones9991]

The parts with you and Joe definitely had me laughing Josh another great video from you to start off the new year strong yea I agree I haven't seen many great Pinocchio films throughout my years of watching Pinocchio films in both Live-action and animation the 1996 Live-action one with Jonathan Taylor Thomas doesn't get that much respect yea it's pretty dated by today but it was closer to the story at the time I owned it on VHS and remember it, but I feel that the Guillermo Del Toro animated film puts a unique twist on the original story and tells it in a different way than most Pinocchio films to me it's the best animated Pinocchio film since the 1940 Disney animated film

[@ModernMouse]

I remember watching the JTT version when it originally came out and I was 10 or 11. I had no knowledge of Pinocchio outside of the Disney animated film so I was stunned that it wasn't the exact same. Of course the child version of Josh didn't understand interpretations or why you'd want to change the way a story was told. I've grown quite a bit since then...both physically and mentally.

[@jerrelljones9991]

@Modern Mouse I agree absolutely

[@isaiaskunty3958]

The northman is actuly a good hamlet adptation

[@ModernMouse]

It's a great film and a great adaptation (although not a very modern take). 2022 was such a great year for movies that this was on my top 10 list for most of the year but got bumped off because too many good movies came out, but it's a top tier film for sure!

[@mariechen4375]

Great Video. I Love the Story of Pinocchio and I'm a huge Fan of it but I didn't really Like any Version from 2022. My Favorite Versions are still the animated Disney Version and the 2019 italian live action Version.

[@ModernMouse]

I originally had the 2019 version on my list of ones to watch while making this video but there are so many different versions and I opted to skip that one in favor of discussing A.I. and going to the museum exhibit. I'll get around to it sometime soon though.

[@TheNotverysocial]

This deserves points for not being yet another computer generated film. Given how that had oversaturated the market to the point of excluding non CG movies, this is a breath of fresh air. It should have been released on the big screen so we can finally support another movie that isn;t pure digital imagery again.

[@ModernMouse]

I agree that varying up animation styles, especially for the animated films that when awards, is crucial. One of the reasons so many people loved Into the Spiderverse was because it looked so different from the usual Disney/Pixar/Dreamworks stuff. Pinocchio proves that stop-motion is an artform still worth celebrating. Glad to see it getting so much love, both from a storytelling aspect and from an artistic aspect.

[@TheNotverysocial]

@@ModernMouse Arguably the best adaptation is an animated film from 1972 which is fully uploaded on KZbin here. And it does the early Disney troupe thing in opening up with shots of the book, then closing it again for bookend. And used the frameing for abridging the story.

[@ModernMouse]

I am a sucker for the storybook opening!

[@victoriaallen9393]

I love that bit you guys did ❤. I wish we could of saw the whole skit 😅

[@ModernMouse]

I'll let Joe know that he needs to memorize all 27 pages of dialogue.

[@joereinis640]

Let’s not. But feel free to imagine the rest of the skit! The version in your head, hilarious and lets me keep my dignity.

[@victoriaallen9393]

@@joereinis640 I totally understand 😁

[@JaySherer]

Excellent video! Great breakdown of the history of Pinocchio. Well done!

[@ModernMouse]

Thank you as always my friend! You are too kind.

[@FabricFool]

Re the Shakespeare question and Taming of the Shrew? I didn’t see this one, so I’ll add it cautiously and hope to avoid flame war. But. Kiss Me Kate. Not only a pretty spiff play within a play framework, we get (bonus!) Cole Porter songs and-if you watch the cheesy “3-d” thing from the 50’s also Bob Fosse, Ann Miller, and “Brush Up Your Shakespeare”. There’s cheese. I could do without Kathryn Grayson’s tweety soprano but oh! The Fosse! Returning you to regular KZbin now.

[@ModernMouse]

Thanks for chiming in. I've always known that Kiss Me Kate exists but I've never seen it. I always forget about it so I'm writing it down now to put on my list of films to watch.

[@TheDreamingJune]

Maybe this is because I'm such a big Guillermo Del Toro fan but I adored his version of Pinnochio. It reminded me so much of why I loved the 1940s film and how he depicted the dark themes in his own way. Plus the stop motion animation is breathtaking to look at. It's already become one of my favorite animated films.

[@ModernMouse]

You definitely aren't alone. He's sweeping the awards for best animated feature everywhere and I've seen a majority of people giving the film praise. It's clearly the best version of the story to come out in 2022.

[@forrestdupre87]

The 1972 version is the most accurate

[@ModernMouse]

I don't believe I've seen that one. Maybe I'll add it to my running list

[@forrestdupre87]

@@ModernMouse you can find it on KZbin

[@ModernMouse]

@Forrest Dupre Thank you. I'll go looking for it this week!

[@forrestdupre87]

@@ModernMouseI meant 1978.

[@ReadThisIfYourG3y]

My issue with this review (I’m early on) is that your comparing them to Walt Disneys. Guillermo specifically said he didn’t want to touch the 1940 adaption.

[@ModernMouse]

Yes and no. Keep watching, but thanks for watching and leaving a comment.

[@karolinakuc4783]

Good movie.

[@ModernMouse]

The Del Toro version is great!

[@TomBongJovi]

Idk why people think the Disney version is a good adaptation, it's not, not if your actually trying to adapt the actual story of Pinocchio. It's a good movie but a horrible adaptation

[@ModernMouse]

I think most people see the Disney version of anything as the standard. It's usually the first version of a story most people see so it's the bar they measure everything by. It as for me until I had to actually read Pinocchio in school.

[@jeromealday614]

I suggest everyone here watch QC's video about Pinocchio. it covers a lot of grounds

[@ModernMouse]

I held off on watching their video until I was done with mine. Got a chance to watch last night. Stef and Terrence do great work!

[@avidfather1864]

I know that it's a small part of the video but saying that Robert Downey Jr. role in Tropic Thunder is whitewashing is completely missing the point. In the movie, RDJ plays a pretentious white method actor. You know, those actors that literally have to become the characters they're playing in real life à la Jared Leto sending dead rats to his castmembers during the filming of Suicide Squad. He's so insane in his method acting that he even crosses some societal boundaries like literally turning himself black with plastic surgery to play a black character. The other characters, especially the character who's actually black, constantly make fun of him for this. I know that for some people, just the concept of a white actor playing a black character or even a white character pretending to be black is wrong even if it's satire, which might be justifiable considering the history of blackface but i think there is nuance to this.

[@joereinis640]

You’re right, there is nuance to it and it’s probably a far less egregious example than many other times Hollywood has whitewashed roles. But here’s the thing: He literally is still a white actor in blackface, even if it’s being done ironically. If you do something racist, even if to intentionally point out how racist it is, it does not make the thing being done not racist. And I get that it’s being done ironically to illustrate how others would do the same behavior un-ironically. RDJ’s character is intentionally absurd, making fun of actual racist behavior. But this approach is still problematic. It’s still a white guy making a decision that it’s OK to do the racist thing because it’s just a joke. Imagine if this joke went a little further. What, if instead of black face, (which is in itself incredibly offensive), RDJ’s character was shouting racial slurs? Not only that, but the racial slurs were delivered as the punchline of a joke. Even if the joke is supposed to be, “wow, I can’t believe how racist this is”, that wouldn’t feel okay. There are ways to tell jokes like this, and to hilariously poke fun at racist people, but you have to wonder, is a white actor, working from a script made by white writers, in a movie being directed by another white guy the right way to do it?

[@Shadowfate93]

I feel like most people who talk about the book haven't actually read it... Did either of you read it or just read about it?

[@ModernMouse]

I actually did but it's been a few years. I read it as part of an assignment in a classic literature class I took. However, I have not read the stories as they were written in the magazines as they were different from the consolidated book version. -Josh

[@VitoxCzechia]

Wow, 1,2 thous. view for 11 hours. Great! :)

[@ModernMouse]

Thanks! I know you stated you weren't going to watch this one in the comments of the previous video. Glad you came around to see it.

[@Magicghost23]

🪵🤥🦗🦊🐈🐋

[@ModernMouse]

This really just tells the whole story. Best adaptation yet.

[@DZstudios.]

Sorry but morals can stay the same

[@ModernMouse]

Morality has always evolved. Obviously there are things that are always true, but circumstance is a big factor in the morality of each generation.

[@davidfitzpatrick6535]

Lets be honest people. Disney's live action remakes have all been trash except for The Jungle Book and maybe (depending on u're tolerance for Emma Watson's singing voice and like of musicals) Beauty and the Beast.

[@ModernMouse]

I'll hold my opinion on what i think of themfor a later video but we did this to ourselves. If we hadn't all gone to the theaters to see these remakes multiple times and instead gave movies like John Carter or Tomorrowland money we would see Disney doing very different things.

[@OkayYaraman]

Totally agreed, except about Beauty and the Beast. Emma was the least of that film's problems. It was way too close to the animated version, the enchanted objects looked horrifying, Lefou coulda been more gay, and the stuff they added didn't add much to the story or just created more plot holes than fixing them, like the teleporting mirror.

[@davidfitzpatrick6535]

@@ModernMouse Fair enough. I feel like Disney kind of has gone bankrupt when it comes to ideas and yet still hasn't really explored the whole disability/serious illness angle of things.

[@davidfitzpatrick6535]

@@OkayYaraman fair enough. Although I kind of liked how they explained how Belle's mom died (of the Plague) since that was never answered in the original and for those of u who like accuracy the Black plague was still bothering fFrance right through to the 1700s so its accurate historically that Belle's mom would've died of that.

[@OkayYaraman]

@@davidfitzpatrick6535 That was a nice attempt at adding SOMETHING of value to that remake, but again, it didn't really add anything important to the story and instead gave Belle a way to teleport out of the castle anytime she wanted.

[@yeaaahbuddy1991]

It’s crazy how you guys missed the joke in tropic thunder

[@ModernMouse]

Didn't miss the joke of Tropic Thunder at all. I know exactly what they tried to do but even RDJ has stated it doesn't fly now.

[@joereinis640]

No, I’m pretty sure we got the joke. But it’s still a white guy playing a person of color, even if it is supposed to be done ironically.

[@welfare_king]

@@joereinis640 so? Is the world going to implode because an actor is wearing dark makeup? Talk about fragility 😬

[@joereinis640]

@@welfare_king just asking for clarity, when you clicked on this video about children’s movies, was it your original intention to find an opportunity to defend black face, or did it just come to you organically when you hit the comments?

[@joereinis640]

@@welfare_king either way, kudos to you for sticking to your guns. No one has to guess where you stand on the matter. J-remy, pro black face.