Why expats don't learn French in France. Understanding the Psychology.

[@vivienhodgson3299]

I am actually glad to hear this discussion. I have lived in France for 28 years, speak reasonably good French, and have integrated into the French community. Although I have never actually encountered Brits who refuse to learn French, I have known many who basically 'get by' on a very limited vocabulary, and once found myself helping the doctor's receptionist with an Australian couple who spoke almost no French at all. It seems crazy to me to move to a country where you can't speak the language, but of course many Brits live in what are basically ghettos with other English speakers, and arrogantly turn their backs on the host country. It seems to be particularly prevalent in Spain. To those who criticise our terminology, the word 'expat' is an abbreviation of expatriate, which means 'living somewhere other than your home country', and is perfectly valid if you are not intending to take the nationality of your host country. I have always called myself an expat rather than an immigrant, because I'm a British citizen who happens to live in France. I've never had any intention of applying for French nationality (which can take up to 10 years), but applied for permanent residency status as soon as Brexit was forced upon us.

[@ouicommunicate]

Thanks for your comment ! I think many Americans or Brits think that Europeans have a high level of English. As far as the terms expat goes, I prefer it to immigrant. As you say, expat is a person who lives in a certain country while remaining a bit on the outside or with the intention of going back.

[@peaceofmind5383]

I have just one question for you, how do you call Poles people who live in the UK, is they immigrants or expats? How do you call Arab people who live in France, is they immigrants or expats?

[@ouicommunicate]

@@peaceofmind5383 i think an expat is a person who lives temporarily abroad.

[@cesarrios5778]

I've lived in France for 6 years when I was a kid (8-14 yrs old). My dad left Brazil in 1999 to work as mecanical engineer. Having done an excelent job, with a rather average french at that time, my dad's manager made him stay there and me and my mom moved in shortly after in 2001. And as you said, knowing the language gave him quite an edge. I cant really conceive that you wouldn't learn the language of the country where you are living, sure it might be hard, but its part of leaving the confort zone, I myself prepare many students seeking to live/work abroad, and they all prepare themselves with at least 1 year prior to their trip. I can't deny it, being imersed in its culture changed our lives. Not only finacially, but for sure culturally, it gave us a cosmopolitan view of the world (even though my parents have always been quite a couple of scholars) that I probably wouldn't have had If I stayed in Brazil. My mom as example wasn't alowed to work, since my dad had an expat visa, but she spent the whole six years studying whatever she could at sorbone; antropology, psychoanalisys, cuisine. A big portion of what I'am today I owe it to french culture, the critical view of the world, deep dive into french revolution and ideas latter led me to becoming a language teacher, my mom also probably wouldn't have become a psychologist / teacher if she didnt have acces to Freud/Lacan original thoughts. I agree with a lot of what you said, I cant say that I had a preconceived view of French culture since I was 8 when I moved in, therefore not having a wider view of the world. But It sure dives much much deeper than just "bonjour! un croissant svp!", Eifel Tower and camembert cheese.

[@gabrielabarca9011]

People on the street in Paris cut you to English as soon as you hesitate, but they are nice and humor you if you just candidly say that you want to speak French while you are there.

[@jpigg86]

The reason you might not want to learn the language of the country where you are living has to do with utility. I had the opportunity to live in South Korea for two years. Knowing in advance that I would not live indefinitely in South Korea meant that I would be better off exercising and reading books. When I was in Malta in 2010 most of the Europeans discouraged me from trying to learn to much Maltese for the same reason. Cosmopolitan ex-pats who are living temporarily in Hong Kong, Singapour, or the Emerites might also fall into the same category. At the age of 8, you learning french was a matter of immense importance for your social/school life. It does not have the same sense of urgency if you are an affluent retiree living in the south of France.

[@MCJSA]

"The people are the country"... this pretty much sums it up. Someone who goes to visit a country and only sees rocks, trees, and buildings hasn't really done much that might enrich their lives. I never understood people who do that. I grew up in Texas and went to France in the early 70s, visiting friends of my family in Paris one summer. I'd studied French at school for a couple of years and could "get by". It wasn't common to find French people who spoke English in those days and our friends didn't know very much at all, so I had to learn. I learned a lot. Why don't expats learn French? Now, that's a huge missed opportunity.

[@ouicommunicate]

Thanks for the comment. Yes I too believe that it's a missed opportunity.

[@ladyblus]

as someone who's going on a study abroad trip to france but still has very rudimentary french knowledge, this was incredibly motivating to keep learning. great video!

[@ouicommunicate]

Thanks for taking the time to comment! Which city are you going to?

[@jochen9717]

I am a German and learning French. Your Channel is so useful for me. Thank you very mutch!

[@ouicommunicate]

Gerne! Deutsch hat mir viel über das Sprachenlernen beigebracht. Mit 35 musste ich es an der Universität lernen. Danke für den Kommentar. (war das richtig?)

[@jochen9717]

Sehr gutes Deutsch! Frohe Weihnachten 🎄

[@ouicommunicate]

@@jochen9717 Frohe Weihnachten!

[@bakarka]

I think for many British and American expats, their expectation is that they will be a part of a community of English-speaking expats that will provide their social support, and that speaking the local language and mingling with the locals is optional. I think they understand that they become part of a separate economy that pays more for services than the locals do. They are very mobile and might get bored, deciding to move to Thailand or Spain at any time. They view different countries as different shirts to try on and are not invested in staying in any one place.

[@ouicommunicate]

Yes I believe so too. Which is why I use the term expat and not immigrant. It's a temporary thing.

[@Phylaetra]

I think it really depends on _why_ they are living in France (or a francophone country). Few move because they want to be French, they want to stay American (or whatever), and take advantage of the things they believe France will offer them. They don't want to live as a French person, just in France. Some people are there for work - they'll learn just enough to succeed in that, but they don't want to be French. I was in the Army and stationed in Belgium - so learned (a little) French and (less) German. I got by, and I was only there for 3 years - but I generally knew more than most of the other soldiers, some of whom wouldn't leave the post at all. I was always happy to immerse myself in the local culture - even with my poor language skills. Were I to ever move to France, it would be with the goal to becoming un citoyen francais - though that is a pretty unlikely event (as my wife's family are very important to her). And I wonder too - some people fear language learning - they don't want to sound 'stupid'. And staying safely within an expat community allows them to be comfortable in their ignorance.

[@TheSalMaris]

I think your theory of identity is absolutely correct. Identity is based on memories--and lots of fuzzy unexamined beliefs. Thank you for this.

[@ouicommunicate]

Thank you !

[@jpigg86]

Great content!! very thought provoking! I am not sure if I am a good example. I joined my wife in the east of France in 2014. I always dreamed about returning to the US and only briefly tried to learn the language. Over the span of ten years I acquired a B1 level of French. I can do most things in France, I have never had a problem with discrimination or sub-standard service, but I do not really spend a great deal of money. Over the past few years I have accepted that my wife will never leave, so looks like we will be here for a while. I agree with your analysis, even if it doesn't apply to my own situation. I never learned French because my work did not require French. I can see no measurable advantage in achieving C1. The only utility I could see in perfecting my French would be to teach French in the USA as a HS teacher. I have been here long enough to request the French nationality, but I do not want to become French due to tax difficulties. About the only thing I cannot access as a non-native would be politics. - I cannot vote in French elections- That being said this video made some very interesting points about integration and acceptance. Which I think personally have more to do with class, culture, than language. Last point, language instruction is not free and requires time and money. I would benefit far more making myself exercise for an extra hour a day or spending time with my little ones. But I might know far more french than your average rich american/british retiree living in their cottage by the sea.

[@ouicommunicate]

Thanks for the comment. My mum also thought she would somehow go back to the UK but it never happened. that would actually make for an interesting conversation: the different social class systems between France, UK and USA. A person might be extra rich in the US but come across as socially low in France. Bravo for your B1 by the way, it's not easy !

[@jpigg86]

@@ouicommunicate it kinda did come easy. In terms of French grammar I am horrible. I did not really learn the language, I acquired it. I open my mouth and french comes out but I know I make a lot of mistakes. People don't seem to care because my kids speak the language well enough, and we are pretty active in our village. -- Yeah -- it was funny for my wife to learn that anyone can make money in the US and you do not have to be EDUCATED-cultivated usually in France social class and money go together. I am linking a video/ channel you might like. kzbin.info/www/bejne/mqLSlZt_fJ15nNk

[@ouicommunicate]

@@jpigg86 I will watch the video. It was interesting to me to read that the people around don't seem to care. In another video it's a point of view I defend: picking up a language informally usually leads to some technical mistakes. (that may or may not be seen as important) And of course the locals don't correct us because it would break up the conversation among other reasons. Concerning social classes I do indeed believe that vertical movement is more possible in the US because it is based on money. In Europe and certainly the UK it's set once and for all. You can be very "posh" in Europe and be pennyless.

[@ottosaxo]

Making dreams and illusions the real life is a fine thing - for a while. But in my opinion, people with that mindset aren't even expats, they remain tourists who avoided to turn back home when the holidays were over.

[@annepoitrineau5650]

You use the word expat. If this is how people see themselves, they do not learn the language beyond a few phrases. According to my observations, expats "lord it" over the natives. Also, expats stresses where you come from, it does not address the new country (ex+patrie). In fact: they first became emigrants, as they leave their own country...and then they become immigrants. An immigrant needs to face/adapt to the new country. I have been an immigrant all my life. Left France to spend one year in the USA, then to live in Slovakia for nearly 2 years (studying), then Switzerland for many years. I learnt Swiss German and I am now Swiss. Then I lived in Brazil, and I am now in the UK. I speak 5 languages. I think my life is richer for having IMMIGRATED, not just lived as a tourist, and I have also met/known people on a much deeper level, working or studying alongside them etc.

[@rjohnson387]

@annepoitrineau5650 I really enjoy and appreciate the structural framework you’ve offered for considering how you perceive yourself as a function of learning a language vs simply wondering and stressing over how long it will take, or whether it will take/work to learn the language. It’s a way to relax in your perception of yourself once you move through and beyond being a tourist. It works for me and my mindset as I enter the journey of evolving into and becoming an immigrant in France or some other country. Thank you.

[@annepoitrineau5650]

@@rjohnson387 I am very happy if I have been able to help...but it loks like you were already on your way :)

[@rjohnson387]

@@annepoitrineau5650 ​​⁠physically ending up in France will be the easy part. I was thanking you for giving me the psychological framework (tourist to emigrant to immigrant ) for learning French. I’ve always dreaded trying to learn a language; thus i was poor at it. But thinking of it as being in a tourist mode, I will be excited about any words or expressions i learn, and i keep adding to the lexicon. But as i evolve to an emigrant in my thinking, i will become focussed on communicating and understanding basic things, until i become more and more proficient at connecting with the french. And that mindset and the learning progression continues. I got that from you and the video, and i thank you. Regards

[@annepoitrineau5650]

@@rjohnson387 Thank YOU. An idea: learn songs or poetry by heart. It will have two advantages: 1) you are learning language by heart, and not just words, but also whole structures to build sentences. 2)You will get to acquire shared culture with the French. An example: if you are a British citizen, you will know things like Ferry cross the Mersey, even if it was not your generation. It is a cultural reference and makes undersstanding other things in the language and culture easier. If you are an English speaker, Shakespeare's sonnets will also be part of your shared culture and enable you to understand other things. If you followed the Olympics, yoou might have noticed how the french were all singing songs together at the closing ceremony. We sing a hell of a lot. We do not have great voices, but by jove, do we make up for it with enthusiasm. My dad could not carry a tune in a bucket and yet, he sings too (and we painfully accept his contributions...). I would be happy to provide a list if you wanted.

[@rjohnson387]

excellent suggestions, and I see the rationale for taking that course of action!! Perhaps, I missed it, or you may not have a made prior reference, but you express yourself like a teacher - which in my eyes is an extremely high compliment (have a sister and friends who are teachers)! Unfortunately, I’m singing out of the same bucket as your dad!! But I would love to take you up on your generous offer and give it a go with songs from your list. Now, as to poetry and such, it’s been quite some time; however, I did have my favorites back in the day. And I did fancy Shakespeare - plays and sonnets - as a student! It tickles me to imagine, hearing the French audio of: “Friends, Romans, Countrymen, I’ve come to…” or whether : “Why sir, cobble you!” would merit a chuckle with a French audience. As for me, I’m not sure how to manage this better. I would prefer to gain access to your responses sooner vs later (ex, your 1st response, I ran across while looking through my junk file and just happened to click on it ). Also, as a subset of your suggestion, there are 2 French songs which really resonated with me. One was an old black and white of, I imagine, a famous Frenchman, and the other a young woman singing about her stirring love for her partner. If you have any more suggestions or ideas that might enhance my learning experience, please by all means let me know. And thank you in advance for sending the music list. Is it proper or okay to send my real email address? I have no idea how to do that without putting it all over the internet. I truly appreciate your suggestions!

[@notlessgrossman163]

Why do you call yourself expat when you are an immigrant, what is the difference?

[@ouicommunicate]

Very true. Though immigrant contains a rather more negative connotation.

[@MCJSA]

Expats are generally temporary residents though this status can extend for decades. Immigrants intend to become naturalized citizens and have a more permanent commitment to the place they have gone. I lived in the UK for 15 years. I intended to take a British passport and felt well integrated into British life and culture. I went to university there. Worked there. All of my friends were there. When I traveled and people asked where I was from, I said I was from the UK. That was my home. I did not regard myself as an expat. Later, I lived in Saudi Arabia and for just as long, but never intended to seek Saudi nationality. I was an expat. I spoke Arabic. Felt integrated into the life and culture. Most all of my friends were there - Saudis and non Saudis alike. But, I was an expat. I would eventually have to leave, and I did.

[@philipwittamore]

Expats are superior to the natives, immigrants, or other greasy foreigners because they're British. Silly question.

[@user-ov4wr5yu4r]

Expat is longer than a holiday. Work, study or a year or two off, but their intention is to return to their country.

[@dpardo74]

I have lived and worked for nearly 20 years abroad with the intention of returning home after retirement. I am an expat. Had I gotten citizenship here and learned the language and integrated into society fully, I would be an immigrant.

[@StephanieHughesDesign]

Tellement vrai. Bien dit. D'accord. Merci.

[@ouicommunicate]

Merci !

[@Earlofmar1]

I don't know your background, but fascinating to hear as an Englishman you don't know much about Scottish people. Except for the funny accent (and the swearing) we are pretty much identical to the English. Same humour, self-deprecating ways, and generally always semi-miserable 🤣.

[@ouicommunicate]

Yes! I know some things, but I can't put two lines together as to the psyche of the average Scot person. I don't know the country as an insider.

[@LiddellUFC2]

I can tell you 100% tourists in Mexico don't want to speak Spanish because they get laughed at. I saw a bunch of tourists get laughed at while trying to speak Spanish. It actually made me switch languages and now I'm studying French instead.

[@angelenoof206]

Real talk

[@ouicommunicate]

Thank you !

[@mitchellbernard5626]

Doesn't expat = monolingual Brit or American ? If so we can have the same discussion in terms of every country in the world!

[@ouicommunicate]

True ! I think I'm using the word "expat" as it applies to speakers of English who live in France/Europe with the frame of mind of a visitor. Perhaps I should have explained this.

[@AI-xs4fp]

The best integrators are often language teachers, like yourself. You've made a career from it. I don't believe someone that moves to France does not want to speak French. Life is pretty harsh if you don't (as it would be living in the UK without english). That said, French IS difficult. The depth of formal, written, casual, slang and idioms can be exhausting and impossible to remember. Throw in the accent that is practically impossible to really master as a foreigner, and you have an uphill battle. Easier to pretend to be a tourist...

[@ouicommunicate]

Thanks for your time and the comment!

[@gronedure2245]

I don't really get the point, I'm French and a lot of expat that I know have a pretty good level in French (more than me in English with 15 years of schooling). I probably don't have comparison, but I know French people are in general not pretty good to learn German or other North East Eastern language (probably because we don't have the same root of langage)

[@ouicommunicate]

Thanks for your comment. I believe it's important to be able to disagree and my views are not "the truth" of course. Yes, I also don't think the average French person is known for their German! 😀

[@annepoitrineau5650]

@@ouicommunicate Ich spreche deutsch, und auch noch SchwiitzerTuutsch, dazu noch Yiddish (but I count these as only one language for practical reasons). People in the Alsace speak good German by the way.

[@annepoitrineau5650]

Sorry: French, English, German have the same Indo-European roots, and their grammar functions with similar categories. English is in fact VERY close to French, but it is known as a Germanic language. Italian/Spanish/Portuguese/Rheto-Romantsch/Romanian are closer...But their verbs are horrendous, while German/English/Dutch/Swedish and the other nordic languages have a much simpler grammar.

[@MCJSA]

I was watching this French guy's youtube channel a couple of years ago, he was really interested in German and German culture and his channel was mostly in German. He spoke like a native. You get really good at what you like. I found French very easy to learn, despite the complicated verb system which usually befuddles English speakers and the odd phonetics. I tried to learn German, which should be relatively easy for English speakers both phonetically and syntaticly, but failed repeatedly.

[@ouicommunicate]

@@MCJSA Quite true. We do get good at what we like. There's this great piece by Mark Twain in which he describes the impossibility of learning German!

[@Alltagundso]

It's apparently good I don't live in France, because I do learn French in France. 😂😂

[@ouicommunicate]

😀 That's what I like to hear!

[@shweefranglais7900]

"7 minutes " commentaire 😅 Votre vidéo combine avec brio l'humour et le sérieux.

[@ouicommunicate]

Merci a vous!

[@georgeszurbach444]

You should not be allowed to move to France without a B2 french language level.

[@ouicommunicate]

Haha ! 😀 It's B1 now at the moment I believe?

[@SueIsRetiringToFrance]

If I move to France, I am an immigrant. To my friends back in the USA, I am an expat. To literally everyone else, I am an American immigrant, or an immigrant from the US. If I got to an event designed for expats, it is an event for immigrants. We need to use the proper terminology.

[@Lyrielonwind]

English expat don't want to learn Spanish either. Most of them have been living in Spain for decades and can't even say gracias. It's arrogance

[@jfrancobelge]

That's one positive consequence of Brexit, it's now more difficult for the fake tourists to fly under the radars with a false status, i.e. pretending not to live in the country where they actually live (usually for tax reasons). Now British expats, immigrants, whatever you call them... as third country nationals have to either register as legal residents (and pay the local taxes) or spend increments of no more than 90 days as tourists in the country (max. 180 days/year) then go back to the UK or elsewhere outside the EU

[@ouicommunicate]

Thanks for your comment !

[@cpnlsn88]

I thonk French culture is a kind of secular sacred. Thrre is an anxiety in thinking you coukd just mingle and integrate like it wouldn't respect the sacred space of French culture. I imagine if living in Germany one might learn sone German to getvaround etc. It doesn't bearvthe same connotation. That said, a little knowledge of a language can go a long way in accessing another culture.

[@ouicommunicate]

Are they scared? Definitely scared of dreadful English seeping into French! Thanks for the comment.

[@daffyduk77]

One benefit of shopping at Aldi is not having to listen to rubbish pop music like the other supermarkets. As it blots out your thoughts, impinges too much & makes you want to scream at times. This guy is too concerned about labels, stereotypes, & image. Trying to look overly sophisticated & worldly.. Why wear a hat indoors unless you want to look stupid ? There's a lot of unnecessary spiel in here, making a lot out of very little. So much of this is just commonsense you could divine "sitting on the Clapham omnibus".

[@ouicommunicate]

Thank you for stopping by!