Why Fairbanks-Morse Failed at Locomotives | The Opposition to Opposed-Pistons | History in the Dark

[@erintyres3609]

A long article in Trains magazine in the 1990's (maybe even a two part article) described several problems that kept Fairbanks Morse from succeeding in the locomotive market. 1) A strike at the end of World War II shut down production for almost a year. By the time they returned to work, EMD had made a lot of progress in gaining market share and in refining their competing locomotives. 2) To replace a cylinder sleeve and pistons, the upper crankshaft had to be removed. This was much more difficult than servicing an EMD engine. 3) In a conventional diesel, the incoming fuel air mixture cools the face of the piston on the intake stoke. This kind of cooling does not happen in an opposed piston engine, leading to overheating problems including melting the top of the piston. The engine worked fine in a submarine where it was always at sea level and always had plenty of cold water available for cooling. It did not survive well when operated in the high desert, or in tunnels where the second and third units had to eat the hot air from the leading engine. 4) A wheel slip could cause a voltage spike that would seriously damage the switch gear or maybe even the traction motors. They never found a solution other than derating the units.

[@electricroo]

My father was a Machinist Motors mate in WWII. He had nothing but praise for the four Fairbanks Morse opposed piston engines that he operated and maintained on the submarine he was on in WWII. They produced about 1200 HP each.

[@thecatwrangler9448]

They were some powerful bois that’s for certain!

[@Engine33Truck]

I love studying WWII submarines. Which boat was he on?

[@electricroo]

He was on the Springer, SS-414. Here is a video I posted recently about my father's war history, the Springer and her war patrols. kzbin.info/www/bejne/b6ubkJtpfM-seJYsi=IkjRqO-3-5rhzS8d

[@electricroo]

@@Engine33Truck He was on the Springer, SS-414. Recently I posted a video on my Father's war history and the Springer's War Patrols. kzbin.info/www/bejne/b6ubkJtpfM-seJYsi=GgB-30ZonB-ogsJI

[@Trump985]

Worked as chief engineer on a tug powered by these 38 8- 1/8 OPs They were extremely reliable and trouble free. However they were more of a pain to service then an EMD. You have to pull the upper crankshaft to change the cylinder kits. Changing a power assembly on an EMD is a quick and easy job taking just a couple hours. However on an OP it’s a different story. If your replacing all the cylinders it’s not a big deal but who does that? Your usually only changing one or two cylinders at a time. The only other thing I can say bad about these OPs is they are extremely sensitive to wet stacking. When they are doing harbor work they load up and stack fires are extremely common. Sure EMDs do the same but OPs seem worse when it comes to wet stacking. However in costal and offshore towing service where the engines are running hard for days or weeks straight they are amazing engines.

[@sirrliv]

Two interesting factoids about the H-24-66 "Trainmasters" in particular: 1. They were the first diesel locomotives to dethrone the last steam engines on Southern Pacific. In the 1950's SP was operating the "Commute" services between San Jose and San Francisco (not "CommuteR"; California railfans get very touchy about that). This service had extremely tight schedules that required trains with very fast acceleration from standing starts to line speed. This became the last domain for many of SP's steam locomotives as they had the get-up-and-go the service needed. Most famously the P-10 Pacifics and even the GS-4 Northerns, including #4449 at one point, worked the Commute trains in the dying days of Western steam. SP tried several diesels on the service, most famously the GP-9's, but even with modified gearing for higher speed passenger operations the diesels just couldn't keep up with the steamers; the high tractive effort needed for the fast acceleration was too much for their power trucks, resulting in either wheelslip or the gearing being shredded. Only the FM Trainmasters with their opposed piston engines and six driven axles had the grunt to dig in and heave their heavy Commute trains into motion and up to line speed as fast as the steam engines could. Sadly, the high maintenance costs and feelings among management that such powerful locomotives were wasted on Commute service prevented the Trainmasters from fully succeeding. By the time the Commute was handed over to the newly organized Caltrans, SP had decided to put less powerful EMD diesels on the service and just loosen the schedules to accommodate them. 2. As few of them as may have been manufactured, the Trainmasters were lauded by basically every railroad that used them; train crews loved them, and despite their opposed piston power plant maintenance was reportedly not all that much harder than normal EMD or ALCO units, all of which the Trainmasters could curb stomp with their UNYIELDING POWER. That being said, only one Trainmaster survives in preservation, ex-Canadian Pacific #8905 at the Exporail museum in Quebec. Why did so few survive if they were so popular in their day? Blame the US Navy. In the mid-1960's, the Navy realized they had a shortage of diesel-powered attack submarines to counter Soviet naval expansion. This happened to coincide with the time when a lot of railroads were beginning to cool on FM locomotives with their weird opposed piston engines. The exact engines the Navy needed for their new submarines. The Navy proceeded to buy up every Trainmaster they could get their hands on and basically just ripped the engines straight out of them and stuck them in submarines, by some accounts with next to no modifications. And it worked! The Navy got their new submarines at a knock down rate thanks to not having to buy all new engines for them. But the price was the near extinction of the Trainmaster line.

[@brentboswell1294]

The SP first tried them in mainline freight service, on the Sunset Route. They were based out of El Paso. Unfortunately, they were found seriously lacking when they were tried in freight service. The opposed piston prime mover was temperamental in hot weather, and they had multiple prime movers fail on them in service. The bay area commutes turned out to be the right place at the right time for these units. The cooler weather proved to be just right for them, and the bay area was loaded with mechanics that were familiar with the F-M opposed piston engines, thanks to the US Navy's large presence in the San Francisco bay.

[@troytrexler5459]

Fairbanks built the engines for USCG cutters, the Wind-class Ice Breakers, the original Mackinaw Ice Breaker, the 378 Foot long Cutters, and the Polar Star and Polar Sea Ice Breakers all used Fairbanks-Morse Opposed Piston Engines. Very reliable engines.

[@old_guard2431]

. . . And the Navy-surplus AVPs, the 311s. Remarkably tough engines, but a lot of moving parts. I served on CGC Boutwell (378) as an enlisted Engineman, and the Wind Class CGC Burton Island as a junior engineering officer. The Northwind changed out the original 6 Fairbanks-Morse 10-cylinder 38 D 8 1/8 engines for 4 6-cylinder DeLaval Enterprise engines. That is trading 60 cylinders, 120 pistons for 24 cylinders, 24 pistons. Much easier to both run and maintain. The sound of the Fairbanks-Morse marine diesels starting up on air will always stay with me.

[@andyharman3022]

I interviewed for a job at Fairbanks-Morse in 1990, at their main plant in Beloit, Wisconsin. Above the main entry door they had a sign saying "Through these doors pass the best engine builders in the world." If you're a motorhead, their factory is jaw dropping. At the time they were building Pielstick-Colt PC4 engines for main ship propulsion. Bore and stroke were in the neighborhood of 24" x 22", and EACH cylinder displaced 9800 cubic inches. They built these engines in V10 to V18 configurations and up to 30,000 hp at 400 rpm. They were still building the OP 2-stroke 38D 8+1/8 engines. I was interviewing for the position of test lab manager, so it would have been a cool job. But in the end I decided not to make the move because Beloit was a pretty run-down town at the time.

[@Rebel9668]

Interesting bit of history. I have a 1930's Fairbanks-Morse radio that I've owned for about 30 years. It's a decent performer. Of course I changed out the old wax and paper capacitors and a couple of out of tolerance resistors, but that has to be done on any brand of vintage radio.

[@thecatwrangler9448]

They don’t make ‘em like they used to brother

[@Jon_Flys_RC]

I have worked on boats with 38D 8 1/8 engines and tradition clutch/reduction gear propulsion. The engine is hardly ideal for variable speed operation. At light loads it is very good at slobbering lube oil out the exhaust ports and all over everything. The engine was incredibly successful in submarines where it could be started and accept 100% load while cold and not incur damage that other engines would when operated in this manner. They can also run at sustained overload without damage. I didn’t appreciate the shortcomings of the engine, but glad I got to be around one and learn how to operate it and take care of it.

[@richardking2762]

The H10-44 and H12-44 were very popular with the Chicago North Western and Milwaukee Road. They lasted a long time. The baby Trainmasters were used on the iron ore lines in Upper Michigan until replaced by Alco C628s.

[@derekthelehighvalleyfoamer4427]

You never disappoint, Darkness. You take a few suggestions people make for you, and then you do your research and put effort into making these. Keep up the brilliant work!

[@JDsHouseofHobbies]

As a side note, a company called Achates Power is developing a three cylinder, six piston truck engine. Walmart was supposed to be testing it in some of it's trucks, but I haven't read anything for about four years about how successful the tests went, or if they were ever done.

[@joewiddup9753]

Achates licensed their opposed piston to Cummings which makes a version for the US military tracked vehicles. Major production of anything else seems to be on hold.

[@ajkleipass]

There are, reportedly, several FM switchers (H-10-44 & H-12-44) that are either operating or stored operational today. Given the task of maintaining an OP engine, I offer a standing ovation to the people who continue to keep these beloved relics functional. ❤

[@poowg2657]

I spent many an hour as a kid in MILW 760 switching industries along the Menominee river in Milwaukee and the western suburbs. A kindly engineer would give us railfan kids rides as long as we kept out of the supervisors' sight. Later on she wound up at IRM and was used extensively there. For a two cycle the low end torque was incredible and it loaded almost instantly. Excellent video, enjoyed it much!

[@lordcaptainvonthrust3rd]

I enjoy these little history lessons nearly as much as the Worst Trains lists. Well researched and enthusiastically presented as always always Sir Darkness

[@karlreinke]

A very close dear friend of mine was an engineer on The Milwaukee Road in Milwaukee. He was a hostler, then fireman, and finally engineer and regularly worked on FM switchers in Milwaukee, including the very locomotive preserved at Illinois Railroad Museum. He said hands down, the little FM switchers could "pull the entire yard and tye yard office out by the roots." The FM switchers could simply outpull the EMD and Alco switchers of similar horsepower. He loved working on them.

[@cmdrflake]

For quite a while FM bought OP engines back from buyers. For example when Erie Lackawanna retired their Train Masters, FM bought the power plants back for rebuilding and later resale. If the engine was damaged to a point where it wasn’t economically salvageable it would be scrapped. This helped out locomotive buyers that were in need of cash, like Katy, Milwaukee Road, New Haven, Penn Central, and the Rock Island.

[@michigandon]

I know FM OP engines were popular prime movers on irrigation pumps in places like Florida, well into the 1990s.

[@ricksadler797]

Offshore power, tugboats ext. very good for that

[@aleksandermelnikov3041]

For me in always seemed weird why FM engines failed on locomotives mostly beacause their soviet clones - 2D100 (and turbocharged 10D100) engines were very sucessful in locomotives (TE3, TE7 and TE10 series). In fact, they prove themselves to be so reliable and simple to maintain, that some of 10D100 are still in use until today on TE10 locomotives (even after 50 years of explotation). The only reason D100s are being changed for now is that they experience oil leakages into cylinders, which cause smoky exhaust that doesen't meet modern ecological standarts.

[@Varinki]

It's because they were never really common on most American railroads. On a few railroads like the Virginian the FM locomotives did well but on most railroads they ended up being orphans with few maintenance personal who knew how to maintain them and limited parts supply.

[@rossbryan6102]

WHEN I WAS A MACHINIST APPRENTICE I WORKED ON A FAIRBANKS SWITCHER OVERHAUL ON AT&SF #560. IT WAS THE LAST ONE RECEIVING AN OVERHAUL ON THE SANTA FE! ITS LAST USE WAS AS A SHOP GOAT AT ARGENTINE SHOP, AND I OPERATED IT AS A HOSTLER. IT IS NOW AT THE ORANGE EMPIRE RR MUSEUM, IN PERRIS CALIFORNIA! KEEP THEM ROLLING BROTHERS!! 👍👍

[@GeneralInverno]

I think this happened because Russia is a cold region, so these engines performed better in these regions.

[@Engine33Truck]

One of my uncles worked for the Virginian, and I’ve met a few of his former coworkers over the years. While he ran electrics, all of them had nothing but praise for the Trainmasters the Virginian ran west of Roanoke. Their power was such that 2 units could outperform the massive Mallets they were replacing on the 12,000 to 20,000 ton coal trains, and would often be slapped onto coal trains pulled by electrics as helpers over the stiffest parts of the Mullens-Roanoke division

[@CardScientist]

All these years i thought the Lionel Trainmaster was just a train they made up. At least it lives on as one if the most popular O-gauge model trains they made

[@Satchmoeddie]

My neighbor worked on the FM Trainmasters and loads of other smaller FM locomotives as well as on their marine prime mover diesel engines used on ships and boats, and even generators & air compressors. Let us see how well this goes. Roy went to work for AMC and after AMC went tits up he wound up at Pontiac Division of General Motors. The crank shaft in the Train Master hung over both of the ends of a 22 foot long table. Roy had degrees in mechanical engineering and aeronautical/aerodynamic engineering. FM is still around. The Dallas Pen Texas Company who bought out FM also owned Colt Firearms. FM is kind of still around, as FM & Colt and they still make TWO FM engines two Pen Texas of Dallas Ind. engines and a lot of German, Austrian and other huge marine engines under license. Arcline is new. FM is still making some of their own engine designs. Their own engines all have horse references in the naming.

[@tomstarcevich1147]

I always thought the FM Train Master was a nice looking locomotive 🚂 👌

[@kennethross786]

At least one FM locomotive is in preservation. FM made a smaller version of the Trainmaster known as "Baby Trainmaster" and TVA acquired several for switching duties at steam plants. This one was at the Gallatin Steam Plant near Nashville, TN. TVA retired it a few years back and it was donated to TVRM in Chattanooga. The long-term plan is a return to operating condition but it's a fairly low priority at the moment - for the foreseeable future they'll repaint it to protect against rust and have it on static display.

[@bilburns1313]

They have 3 FM diesels at the Illinois Railway Museum - including the very first FM diesel, which is in working condition.

[@kilohertz9456]

Their opposed cylinder engines were air fast start. They were ideal for emergency power systems in Nuclear Power plants. Coolant and lubrication systems were kept at operating temperature allowing 10 second start with 20 second block load full power in under thirty seconds as the emergency power of choice for Nuclear Power Stations. Tanks of stored compressed air were connected to the diesel cylinders in sequence to start the engine. This gave the engines true black start capability. Within 30 seconds all emergency loads could be supplied by the Diesel Generator. We used two 3.5 MW 900 RPM engines at Crystal River Nuclear Plant in Florida.

[@haydendegrow945]

My hometown of Regina still has a Fairbanks-Morse building in its historic Warehouse District. It sits at the corner of Osler Street and 6th Avenue, and now houses a furniture store. As it falls under the Heritage Buildings bylaw, it remains virtually untouched on the outside from when it was occupied by the company. No locomotives ever occupied it as far as I'm aware of, but it is still an interesting part of my city's history, right up there with our near-intact GM car plant! If there are any history buffs out there looking for a trip in Canada, prairie cities like Regina, Yorkton, Winnipeg, Calgary, and Estevan are must-see destinations! There is soooo much history on Canada's prairies, it's not even funny!

[@dima343.]

What an irony, that FM built only 1500 these opposed piston diesel locomotives, which now almost forgotten in USA, but in Soviet Union diesel locomotives exactly with this type of engine (Soviet clone of FM) were the most numerous, such as: TE3: 6808 two-unit locos were built (13617 individual units) - 2D100 Roots supercharged 10 cyl. 2000hp engine. TE7: 113 two-unit locos were built (226 individual units)- 2D100 Roots supercharged 10 cyl. 2000hp engine. TE10 family was the most numerous and long produced, 19183 units were produced in total (it were single-unit two cab locos, two-unit locos 2TE10, and three unit locos 3TE10) , they had 10D100 two-stage supercharged (2 turbochargers+centrifugal blower) 10cyl. 3000hp engine, based on 2D100, however first few TE10 locomotives had rare 9D100 12cylinder! 3000hp engine. Many of this TE10 family still work today. As for engines, Roots-supercharged 10-cylinder 2D100 was low-stress engine and was quite reliable, but when they decided not to go with 12 cylinder 9D100 to make 3000hp engine, but instead add more boost to existing 10 cylinder engine block (because it's cheaper), which become 10D100, it had negative consequences, 10D100 was much high stressed and suffered oil leakages and other issues.

[@Posttrip]

@@dima343. Love those Russian classic diesels! The TE series are most impressive. Love their sound!

[@williamflowersrailfannerpr3808]

History in the dark always cooking something up for a awesome story

[@bobknull7502]

My stepdad worked at the Beloit plant. At about 15:30 is a shot of our house across the street from the plant. They had a 12pm whistle that came in handy for knowing when to come home for lunch.

[@tractorjunkco9431]

I never knew Fairbanks Morse ever made Trains for a time. Very informative as always Darkness. You should try doing a video on the Mccormick Deering company). They made all kinds of Hit&Miss motor's and tractors.

[@artmoss6889]

My home town, Beloit, WI, had an enormous FM plant. The eastern edge of the plant was a mile long and the facility occupied hundreds of acres. Although it was several miles away from my house, every morning at 7 a.m. you could clearly hear the plant's steam whistle calling the workers to its cavernous expanse. The whistle was my signal to get up and get ready for school.

[@4-8-4Northern]

Cool!

[@kristoffermangila]

IIRC, the Beloit facility was the main F-M locomotive assembly facility.

[@artmoss6889]

@kristoffermangila That may have been true. They certainly built engines for trains, but whether it was the largest facility is something I'd have to look up. They also built enormous diesel engines for large ships.

[@eftalanquest]

and here i sit still hoping you would make a video like this for a non-american or non-british company. doing one for the german company henschel would have been quite timely since their former factory which is now owned by alstom celebrated 175 years of locomotive production a couple of days ago.

[@Hogger280]

The Fairbanks OP engine not being suited to RR stresses is BS - no RR proved that more than the San Francisco Bay Commuter trains. They used trainmasters on commuter trains with frequent stops - full throttle acceleration then idle and a quick stop, repeat - full throttle, stop over and over. They were extremely quick and reliable. FM worked out the problems, but the bottom line was the RR style of maintenance and the mechanics who hated to work on them because to repair a bad cylinder you had to remove the top crankshaft; this was no problem for the navy because when an engine got tired they rebuilt the entire engine! Railroads on the other hand were lazy and loved band-aid repairs, and that was easy on the EMD, and ALCO because they were designed such that you could remove and replace one Head, or Cylinder assembly without disturbing the rest of the engine. The problem with this philosophy is that the shops were always replacing something because of the bit-work repairs - talk about unreliable.

[@mikehawk2003]

To be fair however, the line between San Francisco and San Jose is near completely flat, and the FMs were always within 50 miles of their maintenance base or in the case of the El Paso H12-44s, they nearly never left the yard.

[@Hogger280]

@@mikehawk2003 Irrelevant - a steady hard pull would have been better. The commuter service was actually harder on a locomotive because of the extremes of operation - full throttle then idle over and over - that is what really did in loco engines; it is called thermal shock.

[@colestrains1]

My grandfather just gave me his Lionel postwar Virginian FM tranmaster and holy crap it’s the strongest locomotive I’ve ever had. Like the pennsy’s S2 turbine, the fm train master wasn’t cut out for the real world but man was it a legend in the model world.

[@seanneal552]

We had 2 FM 8-cyl motors on the tugboat Socrates back when I worked for Allied Towing in the 90s. Pleasure to work on those beasts. Super easy maintenance, easy to replace parts and keep 'em running, even when out to sea.

[@ostlandr]

Big advantage to the ubiquitous EMD 567 diesel prime mover is the ability to change out a single "power unit" (piston and cylinder) without disassembling the whole engine. In fact, you could upgrade a 567 crankcase to a 645 by changing to the larger power units. Interesting to note that the Navy's planned replacement for the Fairbanks Morse 38-8 /18, General Motors' 16-338 "pancake engine" was a total failure.

[@tonymento7460]

There is a Trainmaster engine still around in Canada at a railroad museum it’s a CN engine the TrainMaster engines on the SP RR were used on passenger trains here in San Francisco to San Jose CA until 1975 they were replaced by GP - 45 passenger engines NH RR and NYC had the TrainMasters too for passenger trains

[@robdgaming]

Fairbanks-Morse engines were used almost exclusively as backup power on nuclear submarines until the Virginia class entered service in the mid-2000s. The Virginia class use Caterpillar diesels. I've heard that Admiral Rickover's preference for the design led to this. Fairbanks-Morse engines were also used on the final generation of US diesel submarines built in the 1950s. The exception to this was the first few Tang-class submarines. These were the first post-WWII US submarine type, and initially used "pancake" radials that proved horribly unreliable, so they were replaced with Fairbanks-Morse. The engines used were usually the 38ND-8-1/8 design with various numbers of cylinders, up to 12 on the Trident submarines. The Sturgeon class and I think the Thresher/Permit class used the 38F-5-1/4 design with 10 cylinders.

[@wdmm94]

Windmills would have been used by farms to pump water before rural Americans had electricity. "One lunger" gas engines (like the ones he showed only smaller, water cooled, and more in the 10's to 40's era) were used with pump jacks either with or instead of windmills in that era until everyone got REA power by the late 40's. A lot of these one lunger engines were being scrapped by the fifties and sixties. Some of the last 1.5 horsepower engines of that style for farmers were made by FM, International Harvester, John Deere, and Stover.

[@dirtthunder1638]

Opposed piston engine are larger not smaller than over head valve designs used by GE, EMD and ALCO. With there two crankshafts design they are also very tall. Their engine were so tall that they ran from the keel to the bottom of the top deck in submarines. FM's locomotives are known for having tall hoods for this reason. They are also a very low rpm engines and they are built to run a constant slow speed to turn a generator for a constant current flow like charging batteries in submarines or pumping oil in pipelines. Locomotive engines need to very the rpm to meet the load. This caused high wear on the gearing connecting the upper and lower crankshafts of the FM engine at first. The biggest problem was that if any major repair was needed the engine had to be removed from the locomotive to be disassembled for repair. Where others manufactures engines are a modular design and failed components are replaced as subassemblies that can be done rather quickly and the engine would stay in the locomotive. Thus returning the locomotive back to service faster and cheeper. You also need to understand that diesel locomotives have warrantees unlike steam. They are warranted to be available for revenue service for a specific percentage of time in a year. This was a strong sailing point in going with diesels of steam. If it's not available do to longer maintenance time or major repairs. The manufacture will have to issue a refund or give credit agents future new locomotive perches. The only salutation FM could do was to have complete engines at the ready to swap out. A very expensive solution that didn't fix the problem. They had an engine they needed a home for. Unfortunately it need to be redesigned to really work in a locomotive. By the time they figured that out (Train-masters) they had such a bad reputation no one would buy their locomotives.

[@trottermalone379]

Thanks for your explination. Makes good sense.

[@daveprasse6643]

Fairbanks Morse is a major US Navy defense contractor ... not dead in any sense ....

[@Landrew0]

I never realized that the secret of the Wheeler windmill was it's resistance to being wrecked by high winds. The large number of blades turned in light winds, but created drag in high winds, thus protecting it from spinning too fast.

[@jollyjohnthepirate3168]

Maintenance costs were the main reason steam was replaced by diesels.

[@lawsonclark2466]

My perspective is from a CNW engineer who had experience with FM Locomotives The difficulty was in matenence . Short answer +/-, EMD, GE and ALCO engines had individual heads, on the top end and access covers on the lower end. If you had a individual cylinder falure, the cylinder could be isolated and the piston , rod and valves could be replaced indpendently. Also, the engines could be operated at changing rpms and survive in a jostling existence. The ops have an upper and lower crankshafts and any defect required a major tear down , that most likely required engine removal and locomotive down time . Subsequently, rrs ran them until they died. I belive FM initiated a r and r policy with the rrs to mitigate the problem to lesson locomotive down time with limited success. OP engines ran most efreciently on Pumping stations, ships or any stationary operation , elect. gen, fixed rpm, with regular maint., they run forever. The C-liner pass. units were cool, but fizzled. Ramond Lowey designed the Trainmaster, baby Trainmater and the switchers. They ran very successfully in commuter service in the Bay Area. My all time fav. locos.

[@jed-henrywitkowski6470]

I'm from copper country, and when I was in high school, volunteered at a museum that is affiliated with the Smithsonian. While I can't place it exactly, Fairbank Morse sounds familiar to me.

[@leightonolsson4846]

Compactness of the Deltic design was useful in the UK because of our restricted gauge (tunnels etc). Not an issue in the US. Also the prototype was presented to British Railways to familiarise themselves with it and assess it for any adjustments they required before bringing the locomotive to full production.

[@allangibson8494]

The Deltic was also very efficient. That was consequence of the opposed piston design “borrowed” from Junkers.

[@Jon_Flys_RC]

@@allangibson8494 other than height the 38D 8 1/8 is feet narrower than a deltic. The deltic may be shorter to comply with height limits in the loading gauge but it’s certainly much wider.

[@allangibson8494]

@@Jon_Flys_RC There were smaller engines in the Deltic family. It started off as a patrol boat engine.

[@RichardKroboth]

Several railroads had almost 100% FM locomotives on their rosters. Virginian, Pittsburgh and West Virginia, and Akron Canton and Youngstown. Milwaukee Road had a large roster too. You didn’t mention that most FM locos used Westinghouse electrical equipment. The problems with Westinghouse gear was part of the problem, this goes for Baldwin locos too. Yes FM did have issues with the OP engine but they did correct those problems. The proxy fight killed a huge order that was going to be made by the Illinois Central for the Train Master loco. TheIC was going to order around 60 locomotives. BTW the Southern Pacific kept their FMs running into the mid 70s

[@jamesstuart3346]

That CP Trainmaster is awesome ❤

[@leechowning2712]

Missed one last Fairbanks Morse... FMD, Fairbanks Morse Defense, still making the naval grade engines, motors and associated parts for milotary contracts.

[@randombread7535]

that was a beautiful video you ever think of doing a video on the grand truck railway

[@Comm0ut]

Fairbanks industrial and farm engines continue in service to this day though the very oldest are owned by collectors. The Fairbanks magneto is an industrial classic adopted by Harley-Davidson for competition machines many decades ago. Variants are still in new production as that simple design has not been surpassed for a part which can be retrofitted easily.

[@davissampson3991]

Dr Demento, Dr Demento, Dr Demento. 😂🤣 Yet another highly informative video!

[@Satchmoeddie]

Okay, you missed a lot here. The H-XX-44 series used the opposed piston engines but FM had wanted to design a totally different engine more suitable for railroads but the war department was keeping FM firmly locked into making those opposed piston 2 stroke engines for submarines. The 44 series engines had a bad habit of walking off the rails due to the engine's operating gearing causing the locomotives to wobble from side to side a little. The FM-10,12,15,and 16-44 locomotives were limited to a maximum speed of 35 MPH on straight track by the ATSF railroad. On turnouts and curved track they were even more limited. Try >10 MPH limited.

[@rossbryan6102]

AS A FORMER AT&SF EMPLOYEE IN THE MECHANICAL DEPARTMENT, ALSO QUITE FAMILIAR WITH ROAD OPERATIONS , THE THOUGHT THAT THE H SERIES WERE SO LIMITED ON STRAIGHT LINES AND CURVES IS BULLSHIT! THE TRACTION MOTOR WHEEL ASSEMBLIES AND TRUCK FRAMES WERE BASICALLY THE SAME AS OTHER MODEL LOCOMOTIVES! ANY LOCOMOTIVE NOT CAPABLE OF THAT SORT OF SPEED WOULD NEVER MAKE IT ON THE SANTA FE!!

[@mrsrmp]

About the H-24-66: the nail in the coffin was that Norfolk & Western cancelled an order of 60 locomotives, because FM can't give a postsale support like EMD or Alco.

[@danielbackley9301]

Illinois Central was going to buy 50 in 1956 but backed out because of the proxy fight.

[@tazareal]

You got most of the facts right about the Fairbanks-Morse company.... then you repeated most of the (mostly untrue) tropes about OP engines and Fairbanks locomotives. Most of the FM locomotives and switchers (other than the cab units) were kept running until they wore out. The Soviets ripped off the FM design and built over 10,000 OP engined locomotives. What GE and EMD had, was the financial strength to back the loans on locomotives they sold. GE Capital and GMAC sold more locomotives than any mechanical issues. FM still makes the OP 38 8-1/8 engine.

[@josephpadula2283]

Mostly parts no one buys new ones as they are long obsolete

[@tractorjunkco9431]

They were known for making engine Magneto's For John Deere and Farmall tractors and I'm sure there are many other.

[@leehuff2330]

They also made the side pull recoil starter for the early Lawn-Boy engines.

[@MrGGPRI]

My 1949 Salsbury motor scooter back in the '50s used an FM mag; was pretty high end for just a one cyl motor scooter and really put out a spark.

[@3rdTrickGang]

It's a Shame that the opposed piston diesel never became anything after Fairbanks Morse. Even though they are not practical for everything ;in terms of design and engineering even in the 21st century it is a engineering marvel, they are even more efficient running than a normal diesel engine. Talking about emissions the opposed piston engine would produce way Less NOx and emissions than a V or Inline engine. For every stroke of the pistons they are burning almost 100% of the fuel there's no blow bye. But on the other hand the auto makers and the EPA wouldn't make any money off of engines that are efficient so it makes sense why they are not used anymore. Just seems like all of the mechanical engineering designs that were the best seem to have faded away for less reliable and plastic parts. With a little bit more innovation and modern design the opposed piston engine easily could blow every other engine away in every sense. I Enjoy these railroad videos man! Best wishes!

[@robdgaming]

When the United States entered World War II in 1941, USN submarines had one of three engine types: Fairbanks-Morse, GM-Cleveland, and H-O-R (Hooven-Owens-Rentschler). The last type was double-acting, based on a German design used in some of their cruisers. With the high op-tempo of the war, the HOR engines proved horribly unreliable, and the boats with them spent months in the yards being re-engined. I've heard that the Germans couldn't get the double-acting design to work well either.

[@jeffbranch8072]

The Virginian Ry. simply hired a veteran who maintained engines on a submarine to head their locomotive maintenance, a person who already knew how to properly maintain F-M OP engines. VGN seemed to do just fine for quite some time using F-M locomotives to haul heavy coal trains in the Appalachians. So I still don't see exactly what was wrong with F-M locomotives. Or was it more with the Westinghouse electric traction motors? Didn't Baldwin diesels have reliability issues with Westinghouse motors?

[@GrimReaper328]

When will you do the Burlington Route history

[@danhoyland142]

From what I can gather, when they ran, they were almost too powerful, and were actually excellent but When they didn’t run, they were an expensive mechanical nightmare for railroads to service.

[@ostlandr]

Sounds just like my '93 GMC Safari with AWD and the HO V6. Best vehicle I ever owned when it was running right. But it was a "shop queen." And the dealer we bought it from had "parts changers", not mechanics. Ended up trading it in on a '94 Ford Exploder. Yeah, not much of an improvement there.

[@danhoyland142]

Lol did it came with Firestone tires that blew out? I actually also know of the van your talking about. Another channel reviews one in length.

[@ostlandr]

@@danhoyland142 My Lady Wife's '90 Ranger came with those tires. Never a flat, never off the rims, ran them until the tread wore out. But we were always careful about keeping the inflation up. The problem with those tires was that if you ran them underinflated, they'd overheat and fail. Which is true of most tires.

[@danhoyland142]

Yup , I forgot that detail but I remember everyone talking about it when I was a kid.

[@fairywolf7515]

i worked for a contractor in 2019 and got to fix a door at the beloit wi facility once

[@GaryGraham-sx4pm]

either you need a better quality microphone, better frequency equalization, or just stop shouting into the microphone you've got

[@curtislowe4577]

What are the maintenance differences? I see the additional areas representing greater frictional losses but the combustion pressure normally wasted pushing on the head is being tuned into work plus it was a two stroke. Regardless of any size or weight savings was it or was it not more efficient for the power output? Greater efficiency means less fuel for tractive power produced. Were the engines so maintenance intensive they ate up operating savings in the maintenance shed? I understand how submarine duty would have few starts and stops but how on earth could a company like FM miss on understanding the service requirements of a locomotive?

[@4-8-4Northern]

I love your videos Darkness!!!!

[@Nyth63]

I found the audio quality very sub-par making it difficult to understand. Had to turn on CC.

[@lineshaftrestorations7903]

We're it not for the War Production Board many many diesel engine and legacy steam locomotive manufacturers would have gained experience in design and production during the second world war. Instead, general motors got the most.

[@icenijohn2]

Didn't the Soviet Union "borrow" F-M's opposed-piston engine design for the Soviet 3TE10 and similar diesel locos? Efficient they weren't, being famous (infamous?) for the prodigious quantities of thick black smoke they used to barf out all over the Motherland, but they soldiered on into the 21st century, especially in places like Moldova and other semi-bankrupt ex-Soviet republics, and they were also used on the non-electrified section of the BAM, Russia's other Trans-Siberian railway.

[@legatvsdecimvs3406]

The Soviet Union did not "borrow" the opposed piston design from Fairbanks-Morse. The 1st opposed piston diesel engine in Russia/USSR was built around 1910-1914 at the Kolomna Locomotive and Machine Works(KZ/Kolomna Diesel) based on the design of their Chief Mechanical Engineer Raimond A. Koreyvo(1852-1920) - who was most likely inspired by similar gasoline engines built by Gobron-Brillie in France(in 1900-1906), Kolomna diesels were mainly built for ships in the 1910's as they also had a license from Rudolf Diesel to build diesel engines in Russia. Fairbanks-Morse engines were used on US built Wind Class Military Icebreakers(which were designed using Russian help in 1941 - mainly in the form of the "Krasin" Icebreaker which was sent to a US shipyard - and later returned), 3 of these ships were sent to the USSR in 1944-45. They were returned to the US in complete working condition in 1949-50. All reverse engineering work in the USSR on these engines was done using only technical notes, drawings, and photographs - without removing the engines from the ships. Previous experience was directly applied to designing the D100 opposed piston Diesel Engine Family(series production was moved to the Kharkov Malyshev Factory in what was after 1992 independent Ukraine), the 1st engine tests were I believe on a 1,800 hp 10 cylinder 1D100 engine in 1951-1952. The 2D100 production engines with 2,000 hp were installed on all roughly 13,500 TE3 and TE7 Diesel Locomotives(built as Multiple-Units) built between 1953 and 1973. Most "2nd generation" TE10 Mainline Locomotives(built as single, double - 2TE10 and triple units - 3TE10) received the later 10D100 3,000 hp 10 cylinder diesel engines from 1958 onwards. Larger12 cylinder engines were designed but were not used. Today if the TE10 locomotives are rebuilt they receive the D49 4 stroke conventional diesels built by Kolomna Diesel.

[@donutlordband24]

make a video on Crown Metal Products. they were a steam locomotive builder... THAT WAS ESTABLISHED IN 1946 DURING Dieselisation! they made steam locomotives but they weren't for railways... or at least not large railways. they made steam locomotives for amusement park railways!

[@arthanza112]

Makes a great scale.

[@coffeeisgood102]

@ajkle…..I am not a mechanic, but I am a thinker. I’m wondering if that engine is harder or more complicated to maintain than a classic engine. It seems that most mechanics were trained on regular engines and could tear them apart and put them back together with their eyes closed, but they were not really familiar with AP engines so they seemed more difficult to work with. It may be possible that had they taken a comprehensive course in AP engines and learned their differences that they may have found the AP engine no more challenging than the engines they were used to dealing with.

[@DMCCorp]

My family has a 10hp FM gas engine that my grandfather restored.

[@jonathanbaker4936]

Fairbanks and Morse's factory in Beloit, Wisconsin is still standing and in use by a different company.

[@jamest.5001]

They should have offered a service plan. Maybe a school to teach mechanics how to work on the engines!

[@kristoffermangila]

Here's the funny thing: one of F-M's successor companies, F-M Engines, now owns the rights to the Alco 251 engine and makes them!

[@josephpadula2283]

Mostly alco parts. The engines are obsolete and only the uS government is dopey enough to buy one .

[@MK-of7qw]

Least favorite Real life loco becomes everyone's favorite Lionel loco

[@sammorgan31]

Opposed piston engines are awesome.

[@trainglen22]

They were popular with the Canadian Pacific railway.

[@0fficialdregs]

i love their trainmaster and baby trainmaster! the only thing that cost them was the engine.

[@davidhill3724]

the war production board was so un american and ruined so many good companies

[@Mr.MurdochTimothySchmidt]

Hey. Darkness can you make a video about Andrew Barclay & Sons Locomotive Company?

[@fxsrider]

I made it to 0:51 and bailed. The singing.

[@michaelcurrie6008]

Thurman to west virginia has a cold tower made in nineteen twenty nine by fairbanks morris

[@CoalChrome]

FM still exists, and they have a new computerized OP engine

[@michigandon]

Is it just me, or does the F-M locomotive factory building look suspiciously similar to the Walthers Diesel House?

[@anvilsvs]

OP engines have a long and not very stellar history. Using two crankshafts does not make an engine lighter or less expensive to build than a single crank engine

[@atomatman3104]

BECAUSE OF THE FORCES OF USING FLYWHEELS WAS A NO NO ON A BRIDGE LOL

[@lucmarchand617]

Here in alberta he have dealer FM in Cochrane for gen-set I work in pipeline job one time a saw gen-set the are massive gen-set work with natural gas injection due long main hydro line was too far.lot oilfield still use today.

[@cbolanz1]

the erie-bults failed, the train master failed, were the c-liners garbage too?

[@matthewavery]

Am I the only one that thinks the diagram of the engine at 8:49 looks like two modern fidget spinners?

[@harrisonallen651]

Morse-code and locomotives doesn’t sound like a good mixture

[@Tsass0]

Choice

[@acersalman8258]

God bless you ❤ you was great nation in that time now destroyed because strangers savagery and mixed raised or blood with bad people haughty you are destroyed your self by yourself

[@lawrencemarocco8197]

Another issue is that a locomotive's environment is much dirtier than a submarine's. This also impacted the reliability of the opposed-piston engines.