Why flat rate IS a SCAM and is KILLING the automotive industry!

[@victorsandoval1060]

As a flat rate tech, my manager pulled me into the office to speak about my hours being low and told me “ we don’t care if the brakes are not needed, recommend them anyway” this was many years ago. That manager is long gone and I never took his advise. It’s wrong.

[@steezgodtom]

people like that and those who follow that advice are the reason “mechanics” have such a horrible name. it’s crazy to me who is allowed to operate a repair shop

[@sasquatchrosefarts]

​​@@steezgodtomtoss a tape.measure on every car once it's on the lift......measure the diagonals between the tires. If it's not the same you can legit sell an alignment. I bet a lot of cars need it.

[@joebrenner4428]

We have had these stupid meetings forever.Why doesn't the service writer recommend all these unnecessary services or do free inspections?I AM NOT GOING TO RECOMMEND A TRANSMISSION SERVICE IF I DON'T HAVE ANY ACCESS TO THE SERVICE RECORDS OR ARE SPEAKING TO THE CUSTOMER DIRECTLY.THEY PULL THE EXACT OPPOSITE ON YOU AND "WHY DID YOU RECOMMEND A TRANSMISSION SERVICE BECAUSE THE CUSTOMER SAID THEY JUST HAD IT DONE?"

[@sonnyc3826]

those are teh exact reason peopel dont trust mechanics in the first place.

[@joebrenner4428]

@@sonnyc3826 HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU EVER SPOKEN TO A MECHANIC DIRECTLY ON THE PHONE?WHY DO YOU TRUST THE SCAMMERS SITTING AT THE FRONT DESK?OMFG PEOPLE ARE FUCKING STUPID!

[@zornslemon]

Honestly, with the technician shortage I don't think we have to work flat rate if we don't want to. If I hand out 10 resumes tomorrow morning I'll have 10 job offers by lunch, we just need to negotiate better. What we bring to the table is $100K in our own equipment, decades of experience and study, and a willingness to do heavy, dirty, frustrating work. The shops bring the building, a hoist, and hopefully some supporting staff and advertising, it's important, but not as difficult to arrange as actually becoming a good technician. The shops need us more than we need them.

[@sasquatchrosefarts]

If you have a hundred grand in a tool cart.... your snapon guy is wiping his butt with Benjamins......

[@markm0000]

@@sasquatchrosefarts If you’re working on German cars it’s about that much for a complete box of tools you need.

[@davidturczak7253]

@@markm0000and bad things half them become obsolete in a few years . Lol

[@markm0000]

@@davidturczak7253 I know it’s freaking sad. I work on very simple equipment but because nobody even thinks of its existence while being in plain sight everywhere… there’s not much competition. As for German cars, I had my BMW once. It was a fun ride but she was very high maintenance. I sold it while I could still get some of my money back.

[@jackrabbit4383]

It's all a joke on our working class ..right to work states..us old time ers called it right to work cheap

[@frankscott8555]

3 decades of turning wrenches. Best thing to do is set up your own business. I would start out with mobile services to get a clientale list start. People will pay for good honest work.

[@JDL_MobileRepair]

You’re right. I started in April this year, with an official business. Already made close to $10k as of June 1st. Im not a professional by any means yet. Learning a ton still, but I’m transparent with the work, pricing, and my abilities. People hear that and the right ones trust me to do the job. The wrong ones never make an appointment because they see I’m straightforward and not with the BS.

[@jackass72]

I left the auto repair trade around '97, '98 after years of getting jerked around by one employer after another and seeing how corrupt dealerships are and went into heavy duty diesel, since I went to school for both. About a year or so later, ended up at my current job. 3 years in, I got into the off highway department, working on generators and diesel fire pumps. Next month will be 25 years with the company. Best thing that ever happened to me. Union job, pension and over a million in my annuity fund. I'll never go back to turning wrenches on cars or trucks. Company is corrupt as hell, but so is just about every company nowadays it seems. Thought about starting my own business many times, but I think it would just be too many headaches. Not everybody can run a successful business. You can be the best mechanic around, but if you don't know how to run a business, you're screwed. At this stage in my life, I'll let someone else worry about that and deal with the corruption as best I can.

[@elihamou6902]

You have to be at a consistently busy shop AND also be paid well. $50 per flatrate hour is nothing when the shop is charging $175 an hour..

[@arthurkineard7356]

That is not true. If you are 100% plus sure.

[@paulcoonce2493]

That $175 an hour is the reason I do everything possible myself (that I can). I worked that kind of shop in my early years and saw all the unnecessary work being sold. They were right on the edge of needed repairs or simply overselling "maintenance". I also had to argue with mechanics that tried to get extra flat rate hours for doing what they were already being paid for. For example, a water pump may call for a 1.3 hr flat rate. An alternator belt may call for .7 hours. The mechanic would want 2.0 hours for the work when the 1.3 hours for the water pump includes removing and reinstalling all of the belts. That sort of thing gives mechanics a bad reputation.

[@JohnLazzaro-p2u]

39 years of flat rate it was ok in the 80s and 90s . The pay plan is barbaric . It screws the customer with unnecessary work and screws the tech with warranty work . And because I am a good tech. I do everything from transmissions to upholstery work . I almost never do customer paid work . So the guys who don’t want to better themselves do decent paying work and the technical work goes to me or someone who else is certified or knows how to diagnose vehicles . The favoritism is unreal. I’ve had at least 40 service managers in my career some uneducated guy who’s gonna reinvent the wheel brings in his buddy who can’t fix a car but can do services all day . This is possibly the worst way to make a living stay out of the business unless you want to deal with all this crap .. and the guys who book 60 to 80 hours a week .. your not fooling anyone.. your stealing and short cutting everything you do .. and your pen is your best tool. And you think your a great tech .. it’s comical .. 39 years of this . I gave this business everything I had and trained myself became a great tech . I only have 4 years left and I’m walking away and never looking back . Most good tech will agree with everything I just said ..

[@davidturczak7253]

I am right there with you . I gave it all I have and ended up with a arm that half way functioning because what this industry did to my cervical spine through the years . This industry is shot and needs to be revamped.

[@exiteternium]

blew out my lumbar L5 discs giving my all, made myself top electrical diag guy in the region, didn't really do upholstery or body work, but did about everything else. when they stopped paying me for my time to do electrical diag, find the wiring diagrams, the fuse box power distribution, ETC i stopped caring, and eventually changed careers, you are right favoritism almost got me and a manager in a fist fight a few times. and the short cutters suck, i did so many comebacks cause of broken shit by the short cut guys and the customers didn't want them touching their cars anymore. i went above and beyond for some good customers donating almost 5 hours of labor combing through the AC system for on customer just taking all the pieces apart and resealing them with fresh o rings on MY dime. and then there was the customers i was forced to donate time to cause they where an idiot owner and our managers where too chicken shit to fire them. i finally wrote, NO WARRANTY EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED AFTER REPAIR DUE TO CUSTOMER ABUSE! ( they came in every two weeks with purple and blue rotors on their Honda, we verified ALL hydraulics worked, all calipers and caliper slides worked, EVERYTHING worked they just drove with two fuckin feet and hammered on their breaks and broke the speed limit everywhere they went... ) and finally had a sub manager fire her as a customer.. took long enough.. this industry isn't worth the stress, and i refuse to work retail/wholesale now because of it... it will give you PTSD to dealing with people man. probably why i have 85 acres, middle of nowhere to go hide away from people..

[@nathankelly7259]

Yup 100% correct

[@exiteternium]

@robertruge2916 yep, greed is ruling, 100% pass the buck to the customer, longer wait times, no higher wages, higher labor rates for less skilled techs, total bullshit.

[@jah5075]

I agree with you 100% and was you in the 80s and 90s. I FIRED the dealerships in 2002 and never looked back. My question to you is.....Why on EARTH did you give the bastards 39 years of your life?

[@Hold-my-beer]

Flat rate sucks. I did it at a dealership worked my way up from lube to level two tech. Towards the end of my time there it went to sht. They started giving the lube techs all the alignments(toe and go) smh, I got loaded with a bunch of warranty work and to make up for it my shop Forman gave me the pdis (post delivery inspections) which was about 3-4.5hrs on the books but really only took an hour or so to get done and I would make my hours like that. One day they clear the shop for a mandatory meeting and dropped our flat rate pay. They gave us a paper with a contract to sign on the spot. On that same contract 6 out of 10 techs wrote their two week notice and were fired on the spot. I along with the other 3 techs that stayed were screwed. I couldn’t just leave because I have four kids at home smh. They took my pdis and gave them to the lube techs that were paid hourly. Keep in mind this was during the pandemic so the techs were screwed we had a bunch of work but no parts everything was on back order. Once my hours dropped to around 15 a week I couldn’t take it anymore. I took my trailer to work loaded up before the managers got there and told the owner who happened to be in that day to go f himself. Threw my uniforms at the shop managers and service managers face. They called me back two weeks later asking me to come back to negotiate. I turned them down and they continued calling until I changed my number. That dealership went under about 7mo later and I couldn’t be happier doing the mobile mechanic thing. Planning on opening a permanent shop by mid next year.

[@steezgodtom]

you are a total beast dude. glad to see you coming out on top and good luck with your own future shop! thanks for watching!

[@dejan4666]

that's crazy, what needs to change is service advisors shouldn't exist and instead mechanics should be the advisors and mechanics.

[@richceglinski7543]

I have been a flat rate tech. The flat rate system makes for sloppy workmanship, unnecessary parts changed due to lack of diagnostic time , loss of applied time from time flaggers not reading the if equipped footnotes, putting a car back together so the customer can use it while you wait on parts,and just breeds a toxic stressful work environment where your never appreciated. The OEMs keep slashing warranty times. The system should be legislated out of existence.

[@biometal770]

Flat rate is the biggest scam. Drove me completely out of the industry. Ended up being a good thing, went to university and got a degree. Now I make 5x what I previously did, and work from the comfort of my home. Good mechanics are exceedingly underappreciated.

[@steezgodtom]

cool to hear! i hope you are enjoying your new career path, i strive to be a good technician and i feel like i improve as the days go on. thanks for watching!

[@exiteternium]

didnt' get a degree, but did get certs, make about 3x what i did turnign wrenches now.. will get a degree someday..

[@biometal770]

@@exiteternium What are you doing now for work?

[@exiteternium]

@@biometal770 telecommunications

[@Nathangies]

@@exiteterniumwhat industry are you in ?

[@deeznutz3494]

The flat rate pay plan for auto mechanics was developed about 3/4 of a century ago to “flood the floor” with techs in new car dealerships in order to offer on the spot service to customers, yet keep costs down when work is scarce. It served it’s purpose back in the day, but it’s way past it’s expiry date

[@michaelhawks7369]

they also got 50% of shop rate back then

[@damderrick]

​@@michaelhawks7369 heard of 50% from some of the older guys that's retired in the past 10 yrs.

[@willharriman1881]

@@michaelhawks7369 Exactly! 50% of the shop rate for the technicians was the only thing that made the work worth doing! So now, you have to become practically a NASA scientist who provides his own tools and diagnostic devices for ridiculous cheapie wages!

[@conchobar]

LOL. "On the spot service..." Oil changes require you to leave the car at the dealership all day.

[@willharriman1881]

@@michaelhawks7369 "50% of shop rate" was the right solution before and it's still the right solution today!

[@homotorsports]

Love this video… been doing flat rate as a master tech for 38 years..in the older days cars required much more service and warranty was 12/12 …I agree 100 percent on the alignment scam..It’s called Greed.. Greed = thievery

[@RiverSistine]

Funny how they always claiming mechanics are ripping people off but out of the hundreds ive met they were all very underpaid while other proffessions are making way more

[@maxpower9848]

When I worked at Ford dealers in the 80s 90s and 2000s we had an inspection sheet that was made for the service writers in the drive to check the windshield wipers and the light bulbs, etc. I believe it was 105 point inspection. but they handed it off the technicians to do. So as time went by I know exactly what you're talking about with oil changes that's pretty much all we did I was even 50 years old busting tires! When I went in to the Ford training center everybody was talking to the trainer and he was stunned that they would put someone through so much training and have them change oil! Then he told us that the inspection sheets were never made for the technicians they were made for the service writers to fill out in the drive!

[@ImolaM5]

I was a Bmw tech for 10 years. I recently left after years of frustration to start a mobile laser cleaning business and am not looking back. I still love working on cars as a hobby!

[@mrstealyoblocks4473]

I'm a tech of 20 years...everything from lawnmowers to mining equipment and everything in between. Flat rate should have been done away with 20 years ago.. With the increasing complexity of literally every system on every machine... including CAN/LIN bus./multiplexing......a flat rate system isn't feasible. One job that stands out is a BMW with a CANBUS failure that took me 15 HOURS to fully diagnose. Intermittent. If I was flat rate I would have lost 2 days worth of pay. Never again. You earned a sub from a veteran tech my dude.

[@RATCHETMAN1001]

so true

[@charless6136]

Idk about y'all but im fully stimulated

[@stevenwestfall7638]

As a lube tech some of the bs crap I will absolutely not recommend stuff like throttle body cleaning. My shop will charge 80 to 90 for the service that consists of me taking the intake hose off and using a bottle brush to scrub the deposits out after spraying some throttle body cleaner in it. Takes minutes to complete and is a total ripoff at that price.

[@RiverSistine]

Wait until remove a dashboard under warranty time and you only make 1 hour for the day then you will thanking god for that tbody service mechanics are not gettin g rich dont feel ashamed to charge for your work

[@withmessagesofvirtueiamunt2380]

This is sad because the instructors at the school I’m going too are trying to get all these 17-20 yr olds to become flat rate. I thought that doesn’t make sense, watching this makes my sense make sense.

[@steezgodtom]

yup my teachers did the same thing.. i went and figured out the rate world for myself and am here to share this advice for people just like you! thanks for watching

[@drummerTBM]

You sir are one of the very few honest human beings left. Everything you said was exactly why I left the dealership world. THE MENTALITY. It’s horrible. It’s a scammy group of people and idk how they sleep at night

[@jasonrowen8938]

Recently retired tech with 30 plus years industry experience.... Flat rate was invented to screw the tech outta his money and line the owners pocket.., shop owners/dealers charging upwards of 200$ an hour to the customer but still balk and paying the tech a decent wage.... im old enough to remember when techs got 45-50% of the labor charged and 2-5% of the total parts sold..........doing warranty work is just the price you pay for working at a dealer, lots of medium/heavy truck,tractor and equipment dealers pay hourly with overtime plus a performance/efficiency bonus so its easy to make 100k plus a year if your shop is busy,....the auto dealership model is defiantly dying in its current state,why anybody would work for one now still surprises me.

[@matthewmoilanen787]

As a 40 year tech and a 35 year Master and 25 year Senior Master ASE I can assure u that Techs don't want flat rate on rhe whole. Customers insisted on flat rate so they knew what their cost was going in for a job. Now it's been so peeverted by managment again in the quest for the Almighty buck. Most dealerships are supported by the shop as we all know because the sales dept doesn't. It's become a vicious cycle that needs a solution and because of the huge differences in Tech skills hourly just doesn't work. The real villain in this to me is the upsell for no reason. It's stealing and there is no place for it in our profession. Sadly I don't see it going away.

[@maxpower9848]

You're 100% correct. I'm almost in the exact same boat as you I started at galpin Ford in 1988 and progressed through A S.E Master then Ford Master and finally Ford senior master in gas and Diesel also hybrid trained and natural gas certified. I got nothing but screwed over and now the rates they charge in Livermore California or $190 an hour and they only pay the technicians $28! Believe it or not they still have young guys coming in getting paid $18 an hour buying their tools and touching toxic waste every day and now it's tradition that they pay for their own health insurance which has been marked up to $1,200 a month😮

[@zemoney954]

Lots of shop are getting more technical with tablets and bunch of pictures and things but pay is Same😒🤔its mindblowing and insulting

[@BroadcastBuddy]

WTFhappenedin1971.

[@greyfox78569]

If you are in the business you are not an underpaid mechanic, you are an underpaid electronics tech and could easily make way more doing something else.

[@JamesSmith-xs7sr]

True! You also forgot the daily "meetings" pep talks & the AWESOME monthly pizza party! All smoke & mirrors...

[@brycerose9772]

totally agree, quit my job at honda cuz of these reasons. winter months were so dry and kept getting slower and slower through out the year.. Well said Tom 🤟🏼

[@steezgodtom]

thank you bryce, glad im salary now it saved my love for it! definitely gotta open my own shop in the future and solve all these problems

[@Mike-yq7ce]

Flat Rate is a part of the problem depending on the shop. Shops that have the work load, know how to schedule the work properly, and be able to get estimates presented in a timely manner flat rate can actually be good. Sadly shops like that are like needles in a field of haystacks.

[@steezgodtom]

thanks for watching! you are completely correct.. a good shop is a dime a dozen but now that i finally found one i look forward to going to work, until i own my own shop

[@collinbaroh3487]

I say flat rate should be eliminated. As a tech myself with over 15+ years I’ve worked flat rate and hourly. Hourly creates a better overall technician with them knowing what they will be making. ASE’s need to go away as well because so many companies hide behind that to keep them from giving raise and if you do pass them you’re lucky if you see a $1 raise. I’ve been independent the last 3.5 years and paid salary. I find it’s made me a better technician and I’ve also learned how to operate a repair shop solo. The reward has been 10 fold. Unfortunately the real money is being a shop owner. I now see that and am opening my own shop.

[@kevinhurley9001]

And as soon as the manufacturer finds out the job it can be done faster guess what they cut the time even more Trust me we had a manufacturer engineer show up in the shop to handle a problem child car and found out a certain task could be done in 1/4 of the time Months later warranty time got cut and manufacturer online replacement procedures got updated

[@kevinhurley9001]

As far as alignments offer a free alignment check and if it’s out show the customer New alignment machines can get reading in 5 minutes

[@Use2FACTAUTH]

Finally quitting after 1.5 years as a mechanic, like you said you only make money scamming people and throwing your morals out the window, wrenching for money made me HATE cars

[@tomjonas7384]

I’m a retired automotive technician and I had many chances to work at a dealer I turned them all down never did like flat rate and I absolutely did not like warranty time I’m a firm believer. It takes so much time to do a quality job.

[@steezgodtom]

quality > speed always! thank you for watching and enjoy your retirement

[@ekindt4722]

Do more videos like this Steez god please. You’re legitimately good at it

[@steezgodtom]

ill try!

[@russellwickham8334]

When I was Flat Rate, I set my budget up for 30 hours a week. Sometimes I did better. Sometimes I didn't. I learned that if a shop left me sitting around more than 4 hours in a day to find a new job. New techs get fed. The biggest issue with flat rate is who sets the time. The OEM has a decided interest in keeping times low because that keeps costs down. Thus how low warranty time is, and as techs get better, times get reduced. The OEM considers times that can be beat to be a mistake that must be corrected. To further complicate matters, since Illinois and Minnesota passed their laws requiring OEMs to pay CP times, aftermarket times have been brought into line with warranty times, often within a 0.1 or 0.2. I didn't join this industry to break even on the 10th time doing a job. I should be able to break even on the 2nd or 3rd time and be able to come out ahead pretty consistently as I improve. Instead when I start coming out ahead I'm finding times adjusted to a level I haven't yet achieved and as a bumper to bumper tech, I don't get to do the work often enough to get that good. Now I fix the cars hourly at the OEM, and the peace of mind of not having to freak out when I'm working through a long electrical diag is freedom to focus on my job, rather than panicking about how I'm going to pay the bills for all this free labor. I will never go back to the dealership, and I will never work another flat rate job unless I own the shop.

[@joecummings1260]

I'm 62 and have been doing this since I was a little kid. To make money doing flat rate you have to be a hack or a scummy salesdouche. I don't do cars anymore but I've seen so many absolute hack jobs done by these flat rate shops and dealers.. I love the "recommended" thing, that means they perform an unneeded service, replace good factory parts with china crap, and send it out on worse condition than before they touched it.

[@matthewbegin3462]

I feel like flat rate they have to pay the tech a higher rate to make up for the hard to beat warranty times and lost time waiting on parts ect. Then they raise the door rate and scare off all the gravy at 200 per hour and high matrix parts pricing.

[@a-k-jun-1]

Last stealership I worked at had a door rate of $275/hr. Top tech there made $45/hr flat rate. After being there 2 years and the management had 3 pay raises in that time, but zero for techs. I inquired and was told there was no raise for any techs in the foreseeable future. Well went to my stall and packed my tools in the truck and moved on. Now doing power generator repairs in remote areas and love it making 3 times the money with no headaches

[@jefferypitts343]

After 44 years of fighting for my flat rate hours, best way to screw yourself out of money, tax the piss out of me ,now I've stepped down ,no more recertification, no more brain dead service writer's, no goodbyes, no regret.

[@crasher88]

flat rate only works if you work at a shop that has a constant supply and flow of cars needing to be worked on. Then the dealership screws techs 10 says from sunday. A warranty job that only pay half of the book time is bs. Its not the techs fault the part broke and needs to be replaced under warranty. I hear you about corporate BS trying to scam customers attempting to sell stuff the car doesn't need or selling stuff to the customer that won't fix their complaint. I'm waiting for some customer asking why they bough all of this stuff when I didn't recommend it. When that day happens I will look the customer simply tell them "its company policy to lie to customers for more sales." The industry as a whole has a lot of problems and needs changing. One thing that needs to change is the ratio of tech pay to labor bill rate. When flat rate was devised the tech took nearly half of the money that was being billed out for the hourly labor rate. Today its barly 25%. That needs fixing immediately. I feel the best system would be a hybrid system where a tech gets paid a flat hourly rate paid by the clock with an additional bonus for every labor hour completed.

[@PedroGomez-gu4io]

Most jobs that are in flat rate are on favor to the company. If they do not have work,they do not pay you anything. I rather fleet shops.

[@Slideyslide]

I will never take a flat rate job again

[@donniebagwell9536]

I completely agree with you, I stupidly worked flat rate for 24 years, and I'm pretty quick most of the time and can beat the clock. My advice get out completely and only wrench on your own shit

[@location_florida]

If your a tech and want to get out of flat rate bs, go to heavy equipment/semi trucks. Around here all those type shops I've worked at/seen are hourly. Plus I think heavy equipment/trucks are easier to work on. They are not as over complicated as the auto industry. Auto manufacturers DO NOT want you working on your own stuff, and make it intensionally difficult to work on

[@RamboBlixkem]

Good content bro, after school and I noticed all this I just got my cdl and do side jobs in the field.

[@karlhernandez617]

Worked in a dealership from 2011-2017. The flat rate pay for me was 15-$17/hour (depending on how many hours were flagged per pay period). After going 3 years without a raise despite flagging more than 120 hours on average, I decided to leave. They also raised the customer rate from 150-$175/hour and would cut the flat rate pay in certain things because “we became too fast” or would want free work. It got old real quick. Left and am now in the electrical field making more than 6 figures a year with less stress, reduction in tool costs, and no management headaches

[@addacdd]

Im at a Ford dealership and my manager gave me the option to stay hourly instead of flat rate. He listened to my concern and that i work better hourly. I have no come backs and can focus on other things to get the job done.

[@steezgodtom]

will always be more pride in the qaulity of work you produce vs the amount of work you’re putting out. thanks for watching and good luck in your mechanic career!

[@thtbluem3]

I hate working at the dealer. Have been looking for another job and no luck of finding something i would enjoy

[@steezgodtom]

tough to get out of a place u feel stuck in. i like my salary job at a mom and pop but the benefits are nowhere near like a dealership

[@thtbluem3]

@@steezgodtom My deaaler is not ran very lets say correctly and i get barley any benefits from it. The owners just sold it so we will see how that goes

[@steezgodtom]

naw dude, time 4 a new shop!!

[@garyaanderson214]

my Dad worked in a dealership established in1911.Union hourly shop in 1991 during contract negotiations the company proposed flat rate pay and stood firm on it.The union said this is not acceptable to the membership at that time it was agreed to stop for the day and come back to the table.The company gave the negotiators a phone number to call when they were ready to sit down and bargain again.The union had already started the started the strike the picket lines were up.That phone number was not real.Replacement workers were hired the pickets stayed up for 2 years.The company never offered to sit down at the table again.This is in a small town of 10,000 on the westcoast.The community stood with the mechanics sales were down work load way down.Fwe brought thier cars there.At the two year point the local was disolved.The company sold and a few years later that dealership moved to a new facility in a nearby town.

[@mikeceli]

Sounds like Dexter Toyota, in the 1970’s, in San Rafael, Marin County, Ca. Back them then, all the big shops & dealerships were union. Mechanics were in the Machinist's Union. Parts Department and tire shop guy were Teamsters. I was a Teamster Journeyman Partsman, for major retail store, auto repair shop. When the Union Contract expired, “ Old Man Dexter” ,owner of Dexter Toyota, refused to negotiate a new contract. The Machinists Union picketed Dexter Toyota, for years, with negative results. This “Broke” the Union, in San Rafael, Ca.

[@mikeceli]

UPDATE it was the early 1980’s when Dexter refused to negotiate with the Union.

[@Ggreg1962]

I worked as a flat rate auto teck for 35 years, never again

[@Ffmt-ri3ti]

I’ve been at a small Chevy dealership for the past 2 yrs. It’s the go to shop in the county and we work on all makes. The pay is hourly and we get overtime after 8 hrs every day. They provide snacks and caffeine, I really can’t complain. The pay isn’t super great but I also have less than 3 yrs experience. Must not be a typical dealership because I haven’t heard anything good about dealerships. Before that I was at a fleet job, also hourly. I guess I’ve been fortunate. If I started out flat rate idk if I’d still be in the industry. Hard to learn with that kind of pressure. Especially with a wife and kids, which is the whole reason I dropped out of school and went into the industry in the first place.

[@bradyfabila2644]

The only 40 hour guarantee my old shop offered was run 40 hours by the end of the week or we’re guaranteed to work that Saturday

[@charliejones7574]

We found ways to break the book, turn an 8 hour job into a 4 hour job....or less. The shop still got their $21 perhour....I got $6.50....

[@sokuneng6422]

Flat rate incentivize the tech to do more work, faster in order to make more money. There are almost no shops with a 40 hours/week base pay.

[@flippintobyland7257]

All i heard from older guys ( mechanics through 80s /90s ) is how great flate rate USE to be. Its gone downhill the cars have changed ( needing far less service and maint ) and so have the dealers far more cutthroat.

[@StrongerThanBigfoot]

Flare rate with a 40 hour guarantee is good in my opinion. I know plenty of techs at our shop making $2-$3K a week consistently

[@TheJohnbjunior]

Absolutely! And flat rate needs to be 50% of the shop rate (or more) like it used to be!

[@user-fc9iq6le2g]

Exactly. If your shop has consistent work, flat rate is great. If you get your 40 by Wednesday and youre ok with 40......you are ahead of the game.

[@timothyhesskew7767]

That's why I got out of that crap. All flat rate does is screw the techs but save the company money because they're not paying you for a full week. The place I was at didn't pay you for a 40 hour week if your hours were bad. It you flag 20 hours for a week then that's what you got paid for. Will never go back to that line of work again. Not even if they offered $40 an hour.

[@privatedata665]

Technicians should share the same respect from employers that Doctors get . Car care is very similar to health care but the Technician has zero say in pay structure and rate . All the stress is on the Tech and often in circumstances that are damn near impossible to meet and do a quality job . Why do I say this ? Some of the most dishonest people I have known are salespeople at a new car dealership and yet most customers like or love their salesperson . Who makes sure your car is safe and reliable without selling you shit you don't need ? It sure as hell is not the salesperson , it's an honest Tech .

[@steezgodtom]

couldnt have said it better myself

[@marvinwiens2774]

Worked for 50 years. forced into flat rate by a dealership. They took every flat rate time and reduced it to 2/3, 3 hour flat rate became a 2 hour pay job at a stroke of a pen. Was ordered to do substandard work and put out jobs that were not done. Shop manager (formerly car wash boy) gave all the gravy jobs to his drinking buddy and then helped him do them faster. Quit. Never again!

[@stevencortes655]

Flat rate at this point in time should just not be allowed especially when you have untrustworthy advisors anywhere you go that cut your time after the fact and management that doesn’t care making you struggle to 40 hours a week when you are there 50 to 60 hours and then still treat us like we are trash

[@esousa486]

We APPRECIATE you honesty about car repair shops .... (and some of the "shenanigans" that goes on ....) I listened to your own experiences, and your opinions, working in that field .... "Thank You" !! And remember THAT customer "could be" YOUR mother, sister, brother, friend .... Do your BEST job is a VERY "Honorable" trait in LIFE to have, and most WILL NOTICE IT !!!! Whenever I've had my vehicles serviced, I drive it for a few days, then I return to the shop I frequent and talk with the mechanic that DID THE WORK, and often hand him a cash tip $$ .... I am one that believes in "rewarding" anyone that puts their BEST efforts in their WORK !! I encourage others to DO the same ..........

[@steezgodtom]

thank you for watching!! as a mechanic i do appreciate the connection made between i and the customer. the better relationship you have with your mechanic, the more receptive they may be to whatever issue you may be experiencing.

[@johnreilly-n5d]

I worked both flat rate and hourly with a small but attainable commission, I have seen opinions on needed service work change when someone went to flat rate, you can't treat a car with 3,000 miles the same as one with 150,000, a small oil leak on a high mileage car is normal but on a 3,000 mile car it is likely an issue that needs addressed, don't tell someone with a high mileage car that if they don't repair a minor oil leak, that they will crash and burn.

[@michaelgavi8247]

It has always been a scam and falling for it is a sign of desperation..

[@steezgodtom]

had to learn first hand.. first gen technician, have no guidance

[@exiteternium]

@@steezgodtom get out, it's a young mans game, and it will age you faster than you want. get a career in IT, Engineering, or join a union for plumbers/electricians ETC. around here a union apprentice makes 2x-3x more then what most techs made where i used to work, journeyman is up to 5-6x more.

[@rodhonco5681]

Flat Rate is a Managers Dream. The Customer loses, the Technician loses. Ask yourself: If the Technician sees (the person actually doing the work) a problem while doing the work, is he/she going to stop the job over and over (to get additional repairs), or push through to meet Flat Rate? Use your head. Who would you want working on your rig? Somebody that cares or the Flat Rate guy.

[@billycurtis5788]

Flat out! Flat rate sucks!!!!

[@letemsinkaj932]

Yeah. I was hoping that auto would be better than aviation and all its problems but every job I interviewed for was like this. Even the ones I accepted never actually let me start. These shops are a complete joke.

[@bubba.watercraftj7269]

As a recently retired medium/heavy truck mechanic, I left “flat rate” almost 40 years ago for some of these same reasons you stated. I have friends who made good money working flat rate (in a GOOD) shop. I personally would NEVER recommend working flat rate (in most situations) Please remember that your body will slow you down in your older years, and most times you’ll not be able to turn good hours as you age. My recommendation is to work for a fleet or municipality type shop if you want consistency in pay and decent benefits. Being a mechanic can be rewarding if you enjoy fixing things.

[@steezgodtom]

thank you for watching and sharing some advice! your body is the most valuable tool in this industry and you ONLY GET ONE lol

[@EliWritesStories]

I spent a few months as a lube technician, but spent some time at another shop as a porter. It's about the same thing, but with even less pay. I'm kinda glad I do this on my own time. Thanks for speaking out.

[@steezgodtom]

thanks for watching!

[@daviddealba9886]

You’re right , but did you know this . At one time dealers paid warranty at book time .yea , that’s right. But they colluded togather illegally and price fixed warranty pay to half of what was book time.GM,Chrysler,Ford price fixed your warranty pay .what they have done is illegal and they should be liable for back pay .just waiting for someone to file a class action suit so I can get all my back pay. Flat rate pay is absolutely destroying automotive repair shops . How can working as fast as you can taking short cuts denying comebacks .how can this be good .how can the suck up the newbie and buddy buddy .be making the most money with the least morals .its a evil system thats time has come .dealers had. Better drop it before its to late .

[@VB-bk1lh]

Flat rate time goes off the rails when it comes to warranty work at a dealer. The Chilton book pays one thing for the repair if its cash, but the dealers pay a fraction of that when its warranty. I worked solely at dealerships for 25 years. Most if not all had incentives to sell more cash work, some were as simple as having a chart saying that if you sold a belt, it was worth say $3 cash, if you sold tires, you got a $25 bonus in cash, etc. The cash was paid out by the parts department separate from your labor for doing the job. Many had up-sell bonuses as well, if a car came in for a tune up, and you found it needed a trans service or brake job, you got a bonus plus you got paid to do the job. On the flip side, if it was under warranty, you could expect to get paid about half what the job was work if it were not under warranty. One instance that comes to mind was a station wagon that showed up one Monday morning, the guy was told to wait because the job only paid 4.2hrs. When I went to the parts department, they wheeled out a bare engine block and gasket set. Apparently another tech had found a crack in the casting and ordered a bare block. Now, if quantity and not quality is what your after, you can most certainly rip and tear at it as fast as you can and knock it out in that time, but the end result won't be pretty. parts don't get cleaned, minor bolts don't get torqued, and any attention to detail may just get tossed out the window. Its just what they want, get it done fast, and make it last till the warranty runs out. On the flip side, when that dealer closed up I moved on to a large private shop. They paid straight hourly time. You got paid for every hour you worked. The problem is they had just as much trouble finding techs as the dealer did. They paid the same per hour, but there was no chance of making more than your hourly rate and there were no bonuses. There were also quite a few guys who sat around and did as little as they could and did all they could to create overtime. Regardless of how much billable time they were creating. About 1 in 8 guys stayed and worked as they should. As a tech, it was more costly to work at an independent shop because you were buying tools to work on a hundred different brands or more, vs. maybe only one or two at the dealership. Besides, at a dealer, guys tended to specialize more. For me it was electrical issues and automatic transmission repair on trucks and SUVS. I rarely saw a front drive car and didn't care too. At the independent shop, it could be a Peterbuilt one day, and a Fiat or Ferrari the next. As time went on I got tired of the game and moved on to trouble shooting for the OEM and tech phone assistance gig for automatic transmission repair. After a while you realize that the pay in the automotive field as a whole hasn't kept up with inflation. I hit that point 20 years ago and I got out completely. Best move I made. If I had it to do over again, I'd have never gotten into turning wrenches. There's better money in almost any other field. Go drive a truck or do construction, but fixing cars and trucks is a dead end. You'll make a living but you won't get rich. If you lucky you may even live fairly comfortably while your in your prime, but as you get older you slow down and the job gets harder and they pay you less. Run, don't walk from the whole mess.

[@outkast40]

We all thought we were helping the customer when we started turning wrenches . The reality was that we were forced to help the business and we were the slaves that provided the labor. Your religion and your family values doesn't matter anymore . It's sort of like a pimp that sends his girls to the street . You don't turn enough money, you get fired instead of beat down.

[@steezgodtom]

customer will always come first in my eyes.. if that isnt in the best interest for my employer, ill be quickly off to the next shop

[@GL0697]

Flate rate is a antiquated system that needs a serious (kick in the a$$) modification. Look for better ways to get paid if your a technician. If your a shop you need to PAY your technicians a decent wage.

[@Dcalvert92]

Become an hourly equipment mechanic. I made $125k last year working 50 hours a week

[@steezgodtom]

what type of equipment are you working on? thats some serious money!

[@Dcalvert92]

@@steezgodtom I am a CAT dealer field mechanic.

[@location_florida]

Flat rate is a scam for the customers as well. This system encourages short cuts and jack jobs. One way to correct this is costumers should ask if it's a flat rate shop, and don't go to them. Put them all out of business

[@boatlover2296]

Auto dealerships have been screwing techs for ever. But for some reason techs come out of school and flock to them. Then get in crazy debt and get stuck. Find a different way. Dealers are bad news all around.

[@v1kng99]

Great video man. Stay away from flat rate. You need to have someone feeding you jobs or a close friend or family member that owns the shop.

[@ericamundson4700]

This was well presented and I would agree. It seems that you have knowledgde beyond your years. i sure didnt understand this at 20. Good job

[@arthurkineard7356]

I have a small shop and I am of two minds about this. If I am guaranteeing you 40 hours but you only produce 20 hours I got a problem because I am loosing money after overhead. If you produce 50 hours are you still happy with your hourly pay. I don't know I think it is impossible to keep mechanics happy unless you are paying them 40 hours to sit on there butts. I here pay me what I am worth and I ask what are you worth and people say 150k a year plus. That is like 75 an hour. I would have to make my labor rate 225 an hour and you actually produce 40 hours a week. These are basic line techs. Master plus that can actually diag sure in a major city and a busy shop. I just don't know many people making 150k per year in any industry. I do not like flat rate. I think following is fair; 15 for for apprentice, 20 for c tech, 30 for b tech, 40 for a tech, 50 for master diag tech for 40 hours per week. I am in the Panama City FL area. Expensive area to like in but not like Miami. I would like my techs to work 3 days 12 hours a day and 1 day at 4 hours on training. Shop would be open 6 days per week. Kind of thoughts from the other side.

[@SaerTurner-wn2qh]

A fast and efficient mechanic will make more money flat rate than hourly if the shop keep busy but a Honest shop will Guarantee you your 8 hours no mater what you do because its the law for every hour you are on the property as an Employee you are owed compensation no mater if you are working or not .... I make way more money billing out at Flat rate than i would hourly far more ...........on average O am making 16-20 hours a Day and I am only at the shop 8 hours at best

[@2stage90]

Spun on and off a decade. They want new techs simply to not backlog customer cars. They promise these kids a dream and see whoever sticks. 5 years is usually all they get. Book time is off doing the job 3 times back to back...When a certain amount of techs beat book time of their hour time then they drop the times even more off the rate. The old super tech veteran makes good money but they give him warranty which is like half customer pay, but now hes too old to go anywhere else cause hes programmed.

[@mattlenz8554]

I made 18 flat rate at Firestone hot garbage 🗑️

[@TheJohnbjunior]

I know, and they're changing the customer $100.00+, pathetic!

[@mikalcobbs9402]

So I put in 180-200 hours a pay period under flat rate, until I worked towards Toyota master. Then my hours started falling as warranty started increasing and my pay rate went up

[@juanfgonzalez2039]

Thats why from being a gm master technician for 20 years i got out now im in heavy equipment mechanic and is hourly make good steady money and over time making 120k a year

[@theonetheycallsix2526]

Huge scam just becomes selling b.s work and further tarnishes technicians name.

[@jamesplotkin4674]

A friend of mine used to work as a tech and if you didn't "beat book time" you didn't last long. 2hrs thermostat better get done in 1.5.

[@BayouRepairGuy]

I subbed b/c I think you are making videos the way I make them and love to watch them.

[@martinsmith2948]

I could not agree more, thank you so much for making this video!

[@ajchiappetta8795]

Dude, start a mobile service and then work your way up to open your own place. That’s what I did. I worked at the dealership for a year and said F those It was scaring to take the leap but it was worth it.

[@ThomasTimberlake-jm7ss]

One major way young new age techs fail is spending all there time at the computer looking and procedures for everything they do, I’m old now at 46 and 27 years turning wrench’s but even when I was young I looked at the job at hand and knew what I had to do to get it done and flagging 100 Hrs weeks is not a problem in a busy shop

[@steezgodtom]

i hear this but if the tech is unfamiliar with the job it will go faster following the guide vs. winging it. of course that changes the more familiar you get but flat rate is definitely not a place for a new tech to survive. happy to hear it is working out for you and i hope you lend the new guys a hand from time to time! thank you for watching

[@uncle.breed_4806]

Honestly I never got over the big old sign my shop had letting customers know we charged 120 an hour for labor and then they tell me that the company couldn't afford to pay me 22 for training others and traveling to understaffed shops

[@ravenrock541]

When your obligated to be on the floor during Christmas and you only earn a $100 a week cause its slow as hell, its a scam. As for the hours per repair, the job never reflects the condition of the car. Which the labor guide says your supposed to calculate into the job

[@snowhare1]

I going to have to disagree with you. Yes flat rate can suck if you’re in a dead shop. However, as a tech with 19 years experience working hourly and flat rate. I made way more flat rate at one of those major tire store chains. The main reason is I’m efficient and the shop was busy. It’s more like a risk reward situation. There is more risk being a flat rate tech because you can have dry spells and not make anything but when you’re in a good shop that is hardly the case. From what I can tell the shop you worked at liked to squeeze every last dime from the customer and that’s bad. It doesn’t build lasting relationships with customers because they will leave there thinking they got robbed or something. Hourly has its cons too. I would say to be put on flat rate after 3 years and expected to do work that is beyond your capabilities is also a sign of bad management.

[@steezgodtom]

im glad my video is reaching both audiences. i appreciate you watching and your feedback!

[@davidturczak7253]

Well as a automotive drivability technician for over 30 years I say have to be careful in this industry. It’s hard on the body and working on these machines doing back breaking work will keep you from hitting high book hours . This is coming from a man that woke up one morning with a paralyzed arm from a cervical spine issues from being bent over these machines for hours upon end . It literally happen exactly like I said . Came home from work like any other day , eat dinner and went to bed . Woke up and lost function of my left arm . No pain, no tingling and no nothing. Had the surgery and gained some function but only 50 percent. Just like a car that race against time will cause catastrophic damage .

[@JamesSmith-xs7sr]

@@davidturczak7253 Damn...30 years in here. Last 6 months have intermittent unbearable upper arm pain... Hard to even lift small things...At least I can perform elect diag/repair well, but somethings going on, not getting better.

[@jesserochabrun4863]

Im a flat rate technician and i make over a 100k a year. What happens is that it hard for a young technician that doesnt have much experience also some shops steal from technicians.

[@danielkearns3600]

40 years nearly now own my own shop but through the years when younger and vehicles were not so complex it was great money. Today there is no way your beating the rate over 30% of the time if working on everything make model and all types of jobs. I first drive the vehicle for complaint and then research issues for known failures and anything that will help with diagnosis and issues that could impact job like special equipment and tools. Do the job and then drive after to confirm repair and zero issues. Even a simple thermostat on a hyundai when computer is used to bleed system and vaccum system and clear codes and driving to make sure heat and no air is left in system. If not your going to have come backs if worried about flat rate pay above getting the job done at 100% no returns for issues related. I use variable flate rates depending on types of work and to be competitive and still pay the bills

[@tallicafan85]

i need to get out and i been saying for many years. we at this dumb corporation only guarantees 30 hours, very sad. i dont like working on cars fully to like this and to learn more and since cars are getting more high tech. iam not tech savvy to understand and diag them. i work 50 a week to only flag 27-35 hours a week and few weeks or so in a row getting more then 40 hours flag.

[@TheJohnbjunior]

Flat rate needs to be (min.) 50% of shop rate (like is used to be) and a good guarantee, until this happens the mechanic shortage now will seem miniscule compared to a couple more years!

[@Benji-np7di]

This was super helpful, I’m looking to start in the industry soon and now I know what to look out for

[@steezgodtom]

pros and cons to every type of shop! ill do a series of where i think is the best place to work, to help out people in your position

[@GL0697]

When you start always get the most money you can, it's not what you know, it's what you can negotiate.

[@s99614]

How is it that there are shops that don't have enough work these days?

[@steezgodtom]

poor reputation shops and youtube making everyone thinking they can repair anything themselves haha

[@a-k-jun-1]

Well if everyone in the small town knows the dealership is a stealership, you won't have much work.

[@jamesplotkin4674]

I buy my tires from a tire store. The only "upsell" they can do is wiper blades. Everything else, I can do myself. If the car needs something major, I think real hard if it's worth it.

[@rwrobs777]

Get out of the automotive industry and get into aviation…you mentioned NJ so there is Teterboro School of Aeronautics for your FAA license…I’ve been in aviation for 43 years and retired from United Airlines after 20 years…was making $55.00 an hour and that was 3 years ago when I retired…not hard work and your hands are cleaner…a LOT of overtime if you want it…time and a half and then all double time on your 2nd day…some techs for making over 200K.

[@steezgodtom]

appreciate your comment! always something i was interested in, but i always enjoyed locomotives.. i know that could be a dying industry but if auto doesnt work out in the long run i would love to be involved with trains

[@Transient901]

Back in the mid 90s at a Mitsu dealer I routinely and consistently was paid for 65+ hours of flat rate labor while working 30 to 35 actual hours of manual labor. Could I do the same working on GM or Ford cars in that era? It would have been much more difficult in my opinion to achieve the same results. It is possible, nothing reduces time like repetition and the vehicles of that era where consistent when it comes to designed in failure.

[@iamredrunt172]

Flat rate does suck.FYI I've seen brand new cars, off the carrier, with their alignments messed up. It's how they clamp and transport the vehicle. It's worth the while to take your vehicle to a reputable alignment shop,and get things dialed in.

[@iamredrunt172]

Go hourly, or make your own business. I used to have my own alignment- shop. Dealerships are all about the🤑🤑

[@armchairtin-kicker503]

For a master mechanic, in a shop getting steady work, flat-rate makes sense.

[@supersam1914]

I left a Benz dealer in 2008 I was 19 I started at 16 as a helper . I listened to the older guys who told me to do something more lucrative. Trust me if you can repair a modern vehicle you can do well in any trade . I’m a operating engineer downtown NYC it’s the easiest job I’ve ever had and it pays the most .

[@JamesSmith-xs7sr]

When I started in 94 (Import shop) ALL the older wise techs warned me about staying in this field! I wish I had listened....

[@maazahmad9075]

Flat rate makes techs go on the dark side

[@JamesSmith-xs7sr]

Truth! "Hook & crook"!

[@location_florida]

$28 is not enough for me to turn a wrench

[@GoonyMclinux]

If your a good mechanic $50 an hour isn't unheard of. I haven't made less than $35 an hour in over a decade, be dedicated to the trade and always keep your eyes open for a proper employer.

[@willharriman1881]

I'm retired after 25 years as a auto-diesel technician plus 15 years as an auto-diesel instructor. I have worked both flat rate and hourly. Flat rate isn't the problem. The PAY RATE is the real problem! A fully qualified master technician should be paid $100 an hour! The $100 an hour pay rate would make flat rate workable! Even with difficult jobs, $100 an hour flat rate makes it all even out. For instance, if a particular flat rate job had a 4 hour time frame but actually took 8 hours to complete for various reasons, it's still $400 for an 8 hour work day. 40 technician labor hours with only 20 hours billable still works out to $2,000 a week! And perish forbid the tech actually makes or beats the flat rate time at least some of the time! The shop would meed to charge a $200 an hour shop rate to cover it's overhead costs. That's where the industry needs to go!

[@E36tyler]

More videos like this Tom! Need Subway Surfers or family guy clips next time to be stimulated tho