Why Fox is AMAZING in Melee, and how he changed in Project M

We all know Fox is a great character in Melee... But why?
Does he hold up in Project Plus?
Like, comment, and Subscribe!!!
PATREON: / honestcontent
REDDIT: / zachhonest
Thank you to the people on Patreon!
---
gnar
Jose Rosario
Trix
Laserman2
Bavilla Merritt Jr.
DrinkingFood
waffeln

[@666blaziken]

On the subject of Falco versus wolf, a player by the name of ivayne used to mean wolf but has completely switched to Falco and it made him better

[@gnardawgyt]

I miss the Ivayne Wolf tho 😢

[@christomanci]

Wolf is good cause he howls. Also side b.

[@AlaskaSmash]

Thank you for using clips from our Project+ tournaments for your videos. Our players get super excited when you do!

[@Wuss2ns]

I think most melee players would say Falco and sheik have better projectiles than Fox. Fox's lasers are great because fox has them, but if he had Falco lasers he would be absolutely busted. Good video tho! Hope you do a video on peach. Imo the issue with playing the same character in both games is just muscle memory. Little differences in how a character works can make a big difference in tournament.

[@DJBlitzkrieg]

The way I see it, having to fight a cast full of characters with the equivalent of Melee marth punish game while also being nerfed isn't really a very attractive draw towards the character, feels like playing the game on hard mode.

[@ZachHonest]

Trust me Fox can still do it in PM, it's harder for sure. But he still can do work

[@treyhughes9094]

​@@ZachHonest as someone who mained fox in pm for 3-4 years and was PRd, blitz is absolutely right. Every matchup has a ridiculously skewed punish game due to fox's nerfs and SDI being stronger Only a handful of characters feel 'easy' for him. Fox's stuff works in this game, but the risk reward for most of your neutral as a fox main in PM feels god awful. Not saying balance changes were good or bad, but the effect that they have is that fox feels like shit to play in this game. Basically, the meme that melee spacies talk about where you have to work so much harder than the other members of the cast is legitimately true here, and the reward for it quite frankly does not feel worth it at all when you look at the other top tiers in PM.

[@DJBlitzkrieg]

@@ZachHonest Even if he might be able to do it, it's still a bigger commitment than playing someone that dies with less ease imo.

[@sylvanadvocate1858]

@@treyhughes9094 sounds like a bit of cope to me 😏

[@lucifersam7946]

Reminds me of 64 Fox in that aspect.

[@oby100]

Thanks so much for the high quality melee content friend. A rare sight in any scene with a fairly small community. Keep it up and thanks again!

[@ZachHonest]

Glad you enjoy it!

[@Yadokaritwintailsan]

awesome content, now do an Olimar video >:] Also i feel like the main issue for melee fox players going into PM is the matchup spread. Fox is still easily top 10 but they have to contend with wayyyyyyy more characters than Melee, many of which have unique gameplans and successfully fill niches that don't work in the latter game like they do in PM/+.

[@uny3231]

NOOOOOOOO!!!! NOT THE OLIMAR VIDEO!! 😫😫😫😫 😩😩😩

[@docs.a.t.7161]

A video on a character that went from high to bottom tier between PM and Brawl would be very interesting. Granted, PM "bottom tier" means a lot less than Melee/Brawl bottom tier, but it'd be interesting to see why Olimar (or Icies, for that matter) fell so hard in PM. I've never played PM nor dove too deep into it's comp scene besides Honest Content/Junebug, but it's very strange to see Olimar get an objective major buff (a reliable non-tether recovery) and still plummet so hard. Forgive my wall, I am simply curious about the game(s).

[@Yadokaritwintailsan]

@@docs.a.t.7161 You might want to check out the update to PM, P+, then! Olimar got buffed all the way to mid tier from being bottom 3. They gave all pikmin but purple transcendence and buffed some of his moves so he feels much more competitive now.

[@andrewkerr7697]

Damn this is a really well made video. Awesome job man

[@BobbyReborn]

3:42 amazing Armada highlight. Thanks for including Armada so much like he's back in action once more

[@Ghee_Buttersnaps]

I have nothing to say I just realy like your content and I'm commenting for the 'rhythm

[@alfredusmagnus]

Fox’s lasers were never considered to be better than falco’s btw. He is better for other reasons. Fox’s lasers are mostly good as a camping tool and are only good againsr slower characters while falco’s define his entire neutral. Also falcos offstage is not more deadly at all, fox’s shine and longer upb makes his offstage game better than falcos

[@diegomendez4039]

I think that the nerft in the intangibility is a big nerft. That's because some situations like attack an opponent that is shielding, can end in a easier shieldgrab From the opponent. And the shine oos is slightly weaker

[@potadosm]

that was cool seeing melee fox back it is just the best

[@anothenblue2630]

Hey, is that PMEX Remix I'm seeing here? I wouldn't mistake Bayonetta's static arm cloth for anything else. That aside, I really miss Melee clones being ever so slightly modified, but creating a whole new character through a few number changes anyway.

[@boman1905]

remember when they made fox shine's knockback scale up a tiny bit based on percent and the melee heads all threatened to quit

[@glauciarochelle]

the starfox characters are the kings of all the super smash bros melee

[@Dorriedude]

when he uploads you know its hype

[@Flare8295]

Project M/Project+ Fox is my favorite iteration of Fox in all of Smash Bros

[@matty3501]

Doesn't PM fox also have a shorter firefox and an extra frame of jumpsquat? Also doesn't shine have small knockback growth so that gimps and waveshine combos are more percent dependent?

[@mspaintspartanman5230]

idk about 3.6, but p+ fox definitely does NOT have 4 frame jumpsquat, and his up-b is pretty much the same length as it is in melee. As for the shine thing? I'm unsure, but SDI is stronger in P+ because of brawl's engine in general, so that might factor in at the high level.

[@Flare8295]

You forgot about Ledgestalling in Melee and run up Up Smash in PM

[@Wulf_YT]

Hey whats the first song used please?

[@boopy812]

evrytime i play melee i hear fox in my head say HIYAH

[@noirlavender6409]

losing the the 1frame invincibility in shine sucks ass, not it klanks vs jabs, loses vs many tilts and most smashes and because of the grabs in p+ work weirdly, you shine hit the opponent and they grab you regardless

[@jaimelopez-jv6ec]

I’ve been fairly new to p+ and melee but pm is just sooooo much easier to move

[@lapplandkun9273]

maybe because it feels like you would get arthritis by playing fox in melee

[@giovannijordens6395]

I have to disagree with the video. Pm fox got way more changes than explained in the video and all the "minor" changes make a huge difference. Fox feels like a super fragile character.

[@rcf483]

Collab with AsumSaus when? You two have similar editing styles

[@StarmisYT]

HIYA

[@charglie]

poggies

[@Rael0505]

Great video, I just disagree about fox’s laser being better than falco’s

[@Probux]

Play the new pm remix update

[@23eourytbn82]

4:30 hackysack

[@Princeton_Spl]

HIIIYYYYAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!! 🦊🦊🦊🦊🦊🦊🦊🦊🦊

[@brickkid30]

Fox isn't by far the best character tho, in fact anyone in the top 6 has an argument for the future

[@prophetedubaroque5136]

I honestly think he is the best but except maybe marth I would have trouble to see anyone take his spot

[@SuperShado101]

fox has the best tools by far but once he gets hit upwards by marth, dk, etc, his stock is at risk, so it all gets balanced out

[@cloudshines812]

Fox isn’t just amazing in Melee… He’s amazing in *EVERY* Game

[@javianmonserrate8930]

Smash flash comes in and smash ultimate comes out. Fox: HIYYAAAAAAAA

[@SuperShado101]

fox and pika are great in every game, but which 64 character sucks in every game? link? i wonder who is worst

[@Yubfan69420]

@@SuperShado101definitely link, because every other character has been atleast high or mid-tier at some point.

[@ariesomega2487]

Falco lasers are clearly a better projectile than fox'

[@owenmcgovern8140]

PM fox just feels bad compared to melee :/

[@gnardawgyt]

Hard disagree!

[@Eldoofus]

You can't expect a whole different engine to be the same thing as the previous tho, you can only change a game so much without mods, tbh one shouldn't say it's worse because it's different.

[@mento1423]

How I wish they would put melee on the Switch online service, and then change the balance making Fox a useless character

[@matthew-3437]

Fox laser is not better than falco

[@bailujen8052]

What about why Ganondorf is painfully average

[@eric_ssbm_28]

So many misinformation

[@zubnasty]

most players dont know how to use yellow stick power smashes mid air any direction and can be devestating to all the counters. shiek actually sucks bad. i owned my nerdy gamer friend but to be fair i did get owned eventually by him aswell but we both owned eachother but my friend and his speed was kind of like a catalyst for me to learn to perform faster and made me try to the point to where i wanted the world record and couldve had it if i wanted to but didnt. because we didnt have youtube to sponser that. so we had to figure out what nights at the ymca had gamer nights. i still retain my memory on how to battle on melee. brawl kind of sucked cause everyone would use sonic and his ultimate all the dam time. to the point to where i had to get crafty with the way id battle and id destroy the ultimate ball when it came or told players to turn off the special cause it was basically "cheap" to do that. Real skill comes from natural mechanics OG mechanics

[@demonpikmin2343]

Even though i despise the melee fox, but i don't hate fox in pm/+ because i like brawl fox voicelines miles lot more than melee one. melee fox sounds so annoying to me tho.

[@emmanuelmondesir1314]

Design wise he looked much better in melee

[@sylvanadvocate1858]

Melee foxes malding rn

[@NeZCheese]

This video was a lot of "Fox is good because he is good". I guess I just wasted 9 minutes of my life.

[@jameslisterthemarthplayer8322]

I’ve had a grudge against Fox in Melee in the past. Also, despite me being in the middle with Fox nowadays, I personally think that any Melee player who mains Fox are just bad at the game. They have no talent at all.