Why 'Free College' Is a Terrible Idea

A bachelor's degree isn't a prerequisite to a satisfying career-it's a costly way of signaling the fortitude to withstand suffering.
-------
Subscribe to our KZbin channel: / reasontv
Like us on Facebook: / reason.magazine .
Follow us on Twitter: / reason
Subscribe to our podcast at iTunes: goo.gl/az3a7a
Reason is the planet's leading source of news, politics, and culture from a libertarian perspective. Go to reason.com for a point of view you won't get from legacy media and old left-right opinion magazines.
---------
Michael Gamez, 22, has wanted to work on cars since he was a kid, just like his father and grandfather. He fixed up and sold his first used car when he was 14. "It felt really good to build something up and sell it for a profit," says Gamez.
But his teachers conditioned him to equate a college degree with success. So he enrolled at the University of California, Irvine, with a plan to major in mechanical engineering. During his sophomore year, Gamez dropped out because he realized that he was on the wrong path.
Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.)and Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) have promised that, if elected, they'll make public college tuition-free and wipe clear federal student loan debt, which in the U.S. tops $1.5 trillion. Their claim is that making college universal will lead to higher productivity and more economic opportunity for people like Gamez.
"If you make college free, then there's going to be so many [degrees] floating around that if you want to get a better job, then you're going to need to go and get some supplemental degree," says Bryan Caplan, an economist at George Mason University and author of The Case Against Education. He's skeptical that professors like him have much to offer most students.
"We're spending too much time and money on education because most of what you learn in school you will never use after the final exam," says Caplan. "If you just calmly compare what we're studying to what we really do, the connection is shockingly weak."
Caplan says that most people attend college as a way to signal to prospective employers that they're reasonably intelligent, conscientious, and conformist.
"The signaling story is mostly that our society says that you're supposed to graduate, and if you're supposed to graduate, the failure to graduate signals non-conformity," says Caplan. "People that are willing to just bite their tongues and suffer through it are the ones who are also going to be good at doing that once they get a job."
Caplan's case rests partly on the so-called sheepskin effect, named for the material on which diplomas were once printed.
Studies of the earnings of college graduates reveal that the average salary increase for completing the last year of college is on average more than double that of completing the first three, implying that it's the fortitude to obtain the degree-not the knowledge gained-that explains the boost in compensation.
"The usual view, called the human capital view, says that basically all of what's going on in schools, is that they are pouring useful skills into you," says Caplan. "What I'm saying is the main payoff you're getting from school is that you're getting certified, you're getting stamped. You are, in other words, getting what you need to convince employers that you are a good bet."
Instead of college, Leah Wilczewski, 21, enrolled in Praxis, a one-year job skills program focusing on communication, marketing, and other jobs. It cost $12,000 but included a 6-month paid apprenticeship worth $16,000, meaning she'll finish the program $4,000 in the black.
Even though it's possible to acquire the necessary skills to make a good living without attending college, enrollment at 4-year universities has stayed steady for the past 10 years, and an Economics of Education Review study by Nicholas Turner found that every dollar of federal aid spending crowds out about 83 cents of institutional aid. Such trends leave Caplan skeptical that enrollment will fall anytime soon despite the increasing availability of online alternatives.
"If you've got that kind of guaranteed customer base where the taxpayers have no choice in whether or not the money's going to be spent and the government hands it over to you, then you're going to be fine," says Caplan.
As for Wilczewski, she has two more months left in her apprenticeship and is hopeful that Impossible Foods will keep her on in the sales department. Gamez hopes that working for BMW is a first step towards eventually owning his own shop.
Produced by Zach Weissmueller. Camera by John Osterhoudt, Alexis Garcia, Jim Epstein, Todd Krainin, and Weissmueller.
Photo credits: Anthony Behar/Sipa USA/Newscom.
Subscribe to our KZbin channel.
Like us on Facebook.
Follow us on Twitter.
Subscribe to our podcast at iTunes.

[@Mac-ze4gu]

I went to culinary school in the morning, paid for it myself while bartending at night. Now 125k salary working as a private chef. University was not for me.

[@TheManinBlack9054]

Look at Europe, they got "free" education and ALL of their colleges are garbage. Free almost always means poor in quality.

[@NaeemJigsaw]

@@TheManinBlack9054 are you kidding they are all garbage?😂

[@arandomzoomer4837]

Based!

[@dylanthornsberry8778]

How on earth make that much ?

[@chrisconsorte7893]

And that’s ok. It’s a shame that our society frowns upon us when we chose not to go to university.

[@ka9202]

"It's not a successful career" unnntil you car breaks down and then you're hurling all kinds of money at your mechanic until it gets rolling again.

[@phoenix5054]

K A Nobody does that!? Though I’ve seen a lot of people throwing money at Gender Studies graduates for feminist ideas to comfort people when their car breaks down and blame the patriarchy for it.

[@2needey1]

A good diesel mechanic makes $150,000

[@stephhhie17]

@@phoenix5054 Of course people are going to pay to fix their car, a mechanic provides a service where people have a need. Gender studies & various grievance studies degrees doesn't really provide a student with any marketable skill beyond teaching the same material, but there isn't sufficient demand for every graduate to become a gender studies professor. That's why they just turn around and demand that the schools create positions for them, like "diversity officer" or "director of equity and inclusion" which they are happy to do because guaranteed student loans are essentially a blank check from the government. But that isn't a real demand, it wouldn't exist in an actual free market

[@bobkaiser8782]

I bought a used, modified BMW at 30. I'm pretty sure I put my mechanic's son thru 3 of his 4 years of engineering school.

[@chaplainmattsanders4884]

K A . “Hurling”... lol! No kidding!

[@repomandan07]

"Free College" is just 4 more years of high school.

[@Elfguy266]

how is that a bad thing? "Free high school is just 4 more years of middle school."

[@blackout07blue]

What a stupid video.

[@Maybe-So]

R0mulus Who is going to pay for this, you fool? Taxpayers. That is who. “Free” things are not nearly so valued as something you must pay for yourself. Look up ANY psychological study. Government school is failing miserably already, hence the crazy increase in home schooling. Finally, I consider Government and Colleges these days as “left wing indoctrination centers” - Why do you think socialism is so popular with kids these days?

[@TheHigherVoltage]

@@Maybe-So I would imagine socialistic ideologies are popular with kids these days for the same reason it's been popular with kids and most adults for almost 100 years...it the counterbalance to unregulated, capitalistic models that inevitably end in economic slavery for the majority of citizens. "Free” things are not nearly so valued as something you must pay for yourself. " Pretty sure most thinking people would agree that socialized (ie. 'free') water, police and fire services, roadways, infrastructure and garbage disposal, just to name a few obvious things, are valued more when people aren't paying extra for the never-ending inflation of higher capitalistic profit margins. Government schools aren't failing across the planet - they are just failing largely in the USA. To be blunt, I believe this is largely do to US conservative and religious interests, as they both require a large and miseducated supporter base to grow power, that started during the Reagan administration, and continues on today.

[@jaydunbar7538]

@@TheHigherVoltage lol right out of pamphlets, maybe grab some history books and form your own opinion.

[@bikinggreg]

If you think college is expensive now, just wait until it's "free." As Mike Rowe says, "We are lending money we don’t have to kids who can’t pay it back to train them for jobs that no longer exist.”

[@mga1978able]

The fed creates money out of thin air. Then lends it to banks who create more money from thin air. It's not real. And we have plenty of magic money for the military so we can bomb the poorest people on the planet. Shitheads like you are a perfect example of why we need to educate the population.

[@adamthompson9286]

Get the government out of EVERY business & school, no government money, then let the ones that will fail or go under do so. No bailouts. Nothing is to big to fail, the market will fill in the void, it happens every time.

[@coreywilliams570]

@Astrah Cat LOL

[@coreywilliams570]

@@adamthompson9286 LOL, so a quality education should only go to the rich?

[@coreywilliams570]

@@kellymcgowan3547 A lot of college get hired all the time. You may want to do some research.

[@HingerBinger]

This was an enjoyable watch but it was less about free college and more about averting college all together, which is a legitimate strategy.

[@soulfuzz368]

Geoffrey Morsman I think it was implied that if college is worth averting, than the government shouldn’t invest in it.

[@blackout07blue]

stupid video

[@johnfvick]

So college isn't for everyone, and isn't teaching everything needed for working. Great, I already believed that. But as a computer engineer, it was invaluable for what I do. You need to know the basics before understanding the complex. So free college for people who want/need it?

[@HingerBinger]

@@soulfuzz368 Ah yes I suppose so. The idea of college "investing" in college is so foolish to me, what is the role of government deciding who does and doesn't go to college?

[@HingerBinger]

@@johnfvick I agree that college is necessary for several careers, I wouldn't want someone designing my public infrastructure without a college degree, but how do we decide who gets it for free?

[@samuelhowie4543]

If they want free college than they should put a salary cap on administrative and professors.

[@TheManinBlack9054]

Look at Europe, they got "free" education and ALL of their colleges are garbage. Free almost always means poor in quality.

[@therationalagnostic2735]

@@TheManinBlack9054 European colleges are Garbage? Really ? I have studied in a Free European college and it is much much better than a paid american college

[@joeycottone7755]

And they have to get more conservative professors

[@polillafly2863]

@@therationalagnostic2735 they are indeed, Americans have a problem recognizing that Europe's social democracies have pros too

[@toddsmith5715]

@@TheManinBlack9054 I don't know where you got that, but it's simply not true.

[@BradThePitts]

Buy stock in beer, condoms, and milk crates if college becomes free!

[@Haseo92]

Stock options on Budweiser, here we go!

[@maxpower4964]

Germany has free uni' s only diverent is that not a Kinder gaden like the USA One.

[@BradThePitts]

@@Haseo92 The Tech Sector is a growing field of study, I’d also buy up frozen Hot Pockets and external battery packs.

[@BradThePitts]

@@maxpower4964 True - most American college kids don't know what Rudolf-Steiner-Schule be.

[@MrCmon113]

Students in the USA binge drink more than German ones...

[@mollywatch]

The 2 year Associates of Applied Science I just earned from a community college will be more beneficial in the long run than the 4 years I spent at a State college at 1/8 the price. I already have a job in my field of study. For the win.

[@peterpan8263]

mollywatch So you want that doctor, operating on you in the emergency room not to have higher education, Or the structural engineer who designed the bridge you drive over every day with your family not to have higher education

[@mollywatch]

@@peterpan8263 I was speaking 100% in the first person, referring to my own personal experience exclusively, in case you didn't notice. I'm not quite sure what you *think* I said. I made a decision, and after following through with it, those were my results, period. YMMV, fair enough?

[@JoeHeartsock]

@@peterpan8263 I know plenty of stupid doctors who have lots of good paperwork. Spending a lot of time learning something doesn't necessarily make you proficient.

[@helendoyle9653]

I have an AAS too. I worked as a government contractor and then for a law office.

[@MsClaudiaDuran]

Community colleges are so underated.

[@johnarmstrong5953]

I've been hearing this same thing for over 10 years now and yet nothing has changed except the price of tuition continues to go up.

[@homewall744]

Of course, and all those evil greedy student loan companies are now gone by law.

[@melvinbutters2865]

And the kids have gotten exponentially stupider.

[@xdye9318]

Price of tuition rising over time is a total misconception. The flat price of tuition is rising, but colleges are offering more and more financial aid than ever before, so most middle-class citizens aren't paying anywhere near that number, given that they have the appropriate academic record to back it. Even high-income domestic students are offered some financial aid, on the basis that they will supposedly feel more "wanted" at that school. The only people paying full tuition are international students (predominantly Chinese, but they come from everywhere across the world), who allow the colleges to offer lower prices to domestic students. Granted, the process of college tuition and admissions is still broken in a dozen other ways.

[@KD-vg2yn]

Xdye there is plenty of people paying full tuition and taking out massive loans. The prices of books has gone up exponentially as well:.

[@xdye9318]

@@KD-vg2yn Coming back to my comment 2 weeks later, I realize I was definitely underestimating the amount of student debt people on average accrue (the median, I found, was $17,000). I was definitely wrong about that. My apologies! The exception to this trend, though, which led me to making this mistake, was in regards to elite private colleges, like the Ivy League schools and prestigious liberal arts colleges. Schools that have large endowments and lots of resources often give scholarships even to high-income families, as it's statistically proven to make them more likely to choose to attend there. Coming from a lower-middle class income myself, I used a financial aid calculator for one of these colleges recently, and its estimate was that I would pay only a few thousand dollars out of the $70,000 tuition fee per year.

[@sleepygryph]

You know countries that cover college usually restrict it to jobs that actually need degrees, like teachers, doctors, higher management and government jobs.

[@jamilasmith7306]

European colleges are also bare bones entities that don't spend millions on cushy dorms and amenities or sports teams or bloated administration and faculty salaries and pensions. The feds need to get out of backing student loans and make the colleges financially liable for them. Then they might be more attentive to who's really capable and what degrees are necessary. It would be a great day to see millions of extremist SJWs out of a job.

[@Hideout2468]

Mhm. On point right there.

[@holyravioli5795]

@@jamilasmith7306 Exactly, the college i attended in Ireland was bare bones but had everything i needed to get through college. On my first day of college i was shell shocked at how different it was to what college was in the media.

[@s_h136]

Sleepy Gryphon That‘s complete bullshit. I grew up in Germany and they don‘t restrict anything. It‘s about that „crazy“ idea that education should be affordable for everybody and not just for those who were blessed enough to have rich parents.

[@whatthefrerejacques]

@@s_h136 nope. What exactly do you mean by, "I grew up in Germany?" Does that mean you did not go to college in Germany? You're calling bs on the OP because, "Germany doesn't restrict anything" but it smells like you're the one shitting us, friend.

[@ifbfmto9338]

Nothing is free........ And trust me the level of ‘education’ in most of these college courses is absolutely pathetic........

[@Str8Rippin93]

Not mention if you think college is expensive now wait till it's "free". College will charge more if the government paying

[@TheBossMan1453]

>pay 50k for a degree worth about 1,000 in actual knowledge! America!!

[@Zippyser]

Dur that is why the info needs to be free anyway.

[@TheManinBlack9054]

Look at Europe, they got "free" education and ALL of their colleges are garbage. Free almost always means poor in quality.

[@themightypars4453]

TheCreaterKeygen no there not in the uk

[@rockriku]

Stop sending and encouraging kids who don't belong there to college.

[@rockriku]

@@mossfloss Anyone who is honest will, many dropouts will say it themselves because they went because they were encouraged by their high school or expected to by their parents.

[@MrCmon113]

Making college free means you can drop out if needed without chasing after sunk costs.

[@mirsaes]

@@MrCmon113 It's a sunk cost for the taxpayer. Whether you stay in college or not, you'll be paying for it when you get your first paycheck. Why don't you understand that you will inevitably share in the cost?

[@crzyruskie86]

Yeah they don't tell you about all the alternatives to college. When I was in school they made it sound like there was no other way and that there was no other ways to learn other skills for other jobs.

[@crzyruskie86]

@@mossfloss The young adults should have a choice wouldn't you say? If they really don't want to be there, how productive do you think they will be? Also the resources that the person who doesn't want to be there is using could be used by the next person who actually loves their education and respects being there. There are other means of being a great productive member of society and College shouldn't shoved down your throat as the only option. In fact this shows how much guidance counselors are failing at their jobs not actually walking these young people down every Avenue of possibility before they make these decisions.

[@mrbull569]

The main benefactors of four year colleges is not the students; it's the faculty, the textbook industry, the sports teams, the campus investments, and the investment funds that are held. College has basically gone corporate.

[@mirsaes]

Exactly.

[@jasonlee8156]

Couldn't agree more. Which is why they have a vested interest in brainwashing you to believe that without them you will not get very far in life and will never be successful. That's why they want everyone in college. No competition from trade schools, apprenticeship programs, on the job training, military etc. That's what they would want. More tuition money they can suck out of gullible students.

[@themightypars4453]

Jason Lee uk had free college.........

[@jasonlee8156]

@@themightypars4453 But how good was that? Because something is free doesn't mean it's good quality. Was it really free? Or did the government tax you higher in order to provide that free education. Like offering free medical care. In order to provide that the government would have to raise your taxes in order to provide such free services. Because in reality nothing is really given free. Somewhere somehow you will have to pay for it.

[@Kidsinamerica]

There is a large volume of employers who will NOT CONSIDER job candidates who don't have a four-year degree....yet the job task doesn't really require one. Not much discussion as to "why".....

[@paris466]

Say you have a 3 story house. The foundation's giving out, the windows are broken, the siding is falling off. But, instead of fixing all those things, you decide to you're going to add a 4th story. People would think you were absolutely insane. We need to fix the educational system we have now, before we even think about adding another layer to that. "Free" college would only benefit the middle and higher classes. It would do nothing to benefit the lower classes. How can you go to college when you can't read past the 5th grade level and will most likely drop out at your earliest opportunity?

[@DieselRamcharger]

free college hurts everyone. in no way does it benefit upper classes. quite the opposite, it degrades the value of their education by anding out diplomas to the unworthy. stop blaming successful people for everything.

[@ChucksSEADnDEAD]

@@DieselRamcharger it's not a matter of blaming successful people, those who are successful don't need help paying for college. Those who are not successful will not benefit from the free ride.

[@DieselRamcharger]

@@ChucksSEADnDEAD lol how many people are successful before college therefore pay their own way? you're a moron. plain and simple. your parents hard work wasn't a sin. no one needs help paying for a college education. college can't teach you anything you can't learn on your own. education isn't disseminated from concrete buildings, its a product of experience. Poor people are poor because of who they are. They are not who they are because they are poor. Any excuse you make trying to obscure that fact, is a lie.

[@suthinanahkist2521]

On the analogy of the 3 storey house, you would fix the problems before building the 4th floor addition

[@ChucksSEADnDEAD]

@@DieselRamcharger how am I a moron? OP said that middle to high income families would send their kids in a free ride to college, while impoverished families would have trouble sending their kids to college even if it was free. He's 100% right. Nobody is blaming successful people. "your parents hard work wasn't a sin." - nobody said it was, would you please stop saying things unrelated to the topic?

[@TheDashingRogue]

0:19 he worked with his dad Most parents won’t help there kids like that This kid is lucky

[@grantarmbruster6591]

Most Kids are awful to be around. Mainly bcause mothers are no longer raising the kids at home...

[@kevinreyes6633]

The Dashing Rogue it’s cause he’s Hispanic. We have a different culture when it comes to work we tend to help our parents than to be individualistic and do our things like Americans do.

[@whatevergoesforme5129]

@@kevinreyes6633The same goes with Asians like me who are family-oriented. Asian parents go a mile to help their children and in return it is expected that children will also help their parents especially in their old age. And the cycle continues in the next generation.

[@lamasbelladelmundo]

@@kevinreyes6633 It could also have a negative effects when hispanic parents meddle too much in personal matters. They think they own their children and are too sniffy, intruding and metiches.

[@u-shanks4915]

Same here I work with my dad in his profession

[@TheRisky9]

I didn't go to college until my 30's. I got made fun of for going to college so old. What they thought was I was a thirty something working three minial jobs. What they didn't know was that I delayed college because I already had a successful career. And because of that, I was able to carefully choose classes I felt would actually help. I graduated debt free.

[@stayswervin554]

That’s pretty smart you should take your time.

[@EeliusAstaroth]

Anyone I knew who was older that attended seemed to have something useful under their belt, and for me the better part about it is they knew what they wanted and their sense of what to do next seemed a much more solid foundation than the shallow dweebs that made fun of them without even bothering to know anything about them. Really simply to make themselves feel better. But that's the kind of world we live in. The other spectrum were the ones who decided to change careers, and really that's just realistic cause sometimes it happens. I don't understand why we have to make people feel bad for finding out later on what they first chose was just not the right fit and pursuing something else is just fine. I wanted to take a break, but was pressured into it. I ended up super depressed, dropped out with debt, and then went back paying out of my dad's pocket to a smaller college because I felt like such a failure and tried convincing myself to push through it as difficult as it was (cause I didn't agree to any of it). Ended up dropping out n I'm absolutely fine with it cause I made the best decision for myself and nobody else.

[@benrex7775]

I'm from Switzerland and we have pretty cheap collages. First I wanted to disagree with your statement. But after watching your video I remembered, that your school system is garbage. Them being free doesn't really make anything better, that is true. Here in Switzerland about 70% of all students attend an apprenticeship instead of the high school. This gives you work experience and prepares you for university, if you care to do that. Our flexibility in changing jobs and education is also very high. If the school system is good, having a cheap education only serves equality. That way poor people can also attend the best schools, if they are smart enough.

[@_____._..--_]

This. If the education system of your country is utter garbage like America, doing shit like making it “””free””” doesn’t equate to higher chances of landing a job.

[@_____._..--_]

Jen Rosas because those universities or colleges aren’t RUN BY THE UNRELIABLE GOVERNMENT

[@_____._..--_]

Jen Rosas >they’re a few Case close the government isn’t the type of people you’d trust the education system on for the betterment of the country.

[@joeycottone7755]

It's getting worse because they are hiring expensive administrators for identity groups to cater to minority groups and say everything is racist and they are giving professor jobs to ignorant people who sound like they're in the hood. They are making it extremely easy for POC students to get into school even if they are immature, or incompetent. As long as they aren't Asian or white. They now have screaming at the professors at Yale over Halloween costumes, hate crime hoaxes, even kidnapping of professors who do not do what they want and demanding schools fire professors who don't do what they want. They are self important and entitled, they are rude and stupid and they give then degrees! How are we supposed to know who is competent based on their education? We can't because of this. Its terrible for POC who actually have earned their degrees because everyone is going to think they are unqualified

[@benrex7775]

@Jen Rosas USE, UK Switzerland and Singapore are the only countries in the top 20 when you look at universities (2019). And most of them are form USA. Congrats!

[@wizziw1961]

High School is already free, and nearly worth the price. Not really, it's a huge waste of time. Daycare, at best.

[@Zippyser]

Because it has a structure that doesn't work well with young minds. They try to force something down the throat and then when gasping for air they tell you that you can't succeed unless you keep choking. Which is patently false. Education needs a hip check.

[@Kidsinamerica]

Enjoy Boot Camp!

[@xhippiewanderer]

Daycare and indoctrination.

[@laurens.2503]

Wrong, High School is not free. When you buy a home you will see the charges on your property tax bill.

[@Pantherman63]

Instead of employers wanting candidates to "tell them what they know," it ought to be more like, "show me what you can do" in order for them to be hired. Some college may come in handy, but learning how to do something should be the focus instead of completing several book learning courses and passing the required tests. Most of it is a waste of time and resources, especially when the school is not up to grade for what the companies expect from their potential employees.

[@sharann3482]

Kevin C well I think it’s up to the country and how their system is set up. Here in Germany you can go into a 3 year Job training after finish the 10th Class (15-16 Years) The Jobs vary from Craftsman Jobs (Technician) to Service Jobs (Banker) or you do 3 years Highschool wich qualifies you for University and training Jobs with more responsibilities wich are also higher paid like Pilot, Air Traffic Controller (7000€/month before tax; highest paid training job) If you choose to study, you can choose between normal University wich concentrates on R&D and Specialized University wich concentrates to work in the economy, but both Universities are bound to internships in Companies and other specialized trainings. So students know where to work or for what they are working. So tuition free colleges are here in Germany relative efficient, wich has increased social mobility and made the Nordic countries on of the most productive and highly educated people, where it’s easier for everyone to increase productivity and because real-wages are bound to productivity increase, it in everyone’s benefit, to help even the poorest and weakest of the country.

[@Pantherman63]

@@sharann3482 sounds like your officials are doing a great job in giving kids and adults a good head start.

[@sharann3482]

Kevin C yeah and it took years and with Bernie, America is at a good position to reclaim its front runner position.

[@r3dp1ll]

exactly. I wasted years "studying".

[@noahlovotti7722]

If you do more than a half assed single Google search you'd find a college that does that.

[@kcluu9390]

Yep, free college would be a terrible idea. It would make a bachelor's degree worthless and everyone would be hired based on if you had a Master's degree.

[@SilentD1]

Right. and having a nation of smart people is also terrible. Imagine that. If college was free you would diminish the value of the degree, but thats not really a problem is it. You dont feel that just cause everyone goes through middle and highschool makes the education less valuable? Maybe we should just let 20% of all people go to school all together, so they have better chances at getting a job. good idea.

[@strategygaming5830]

@@SilentD1 college most of the time does not produce good working citizens unless you go into a trade field or a directly targeted course for what you want. High school is good for the basic abilities of a person but even things like calculus prove useless to the average American. If everyone had a bachelors the people hiring would have to use a different criteria to hire as a bachelors wouldn’t guarantee a base set of competency like it should.

[@SilentD1]

@@strategygaming5830 The point of having an educated population is not so they each have an advantage in life, but so that the country as a whole has a higher standard of "people" which then increases the productivity and tax playing force. I would not advise anyone to get an education that they have to pay for. If politicians dont see the value of me being smart, then I wont be. You may think that im the looser here, but in the end after I die, you are still stuck with a population thats too stupid to make progress.

[@3kojimbles895]

@@SilentD1 unironically making non mandatory schooling would increase the quality of the schooling, provided that parents still get to make the choice of whether and where to send them. This is seen in private/charter schools and self selection is a great way to let a populace have education work for them. Of course I'm also a advocate for vouchers for school selection and lower tier trade schools for students that just dont get traditional book learning. decentralizing education would make education better overall and more practical.

[@wsc31]

The BA I earned many decades ago had value if only because there were so few of them. That degree opened many doors for me which today are closed to anyone without the Master's degree necessary to even get an interview. A college graduate may have difficulty finding a job but a qualified plumber/electrician/carpenter/mechanic etc. can get a job in a heart beat.

[@wsc31]

@michael saju Qualified tradesmen can find jobs even in a bad economy while recent college grads are scrambling to find any job and paying off their student loans. The college grad who has a degree of value in a specific field- accounting, engineering, etc. can readily find employment. The graduate with a degree in gender/racial/ethnic/intersectional etc studies will be flipping burgers and pouring coffee if s/he can find any employment at all. The question is not if you have a degree but have you learned to do things which are of value to an employer?

[@kitfisto1827]

@Someone :/ so people don't need plumbers, electricians, or mechanics if the economy is bad? Tell that to the pipes and power lines in my house or my car, because they dont seem to care what the economy is when they go bad. And I have no choice but to pay a professional to fix them. And not all degrees, licenses, and credentials are transferrable to other states. You dont know what you are talking about.

[@aoeu256]

@@wsc31 only 28% of american *STEM* majors have a *STEM* job btw...

[@georgenotsmith2804]

Politicians pushing 'free college for all' not only ignore that not everyone is not a good fit for college, but they *NEVER* suggest how it will be paid for.

[@georgenotsmith2804]

@Crosshair: True that, but they know that they'll get de-funded if they so much as suggest that.

[@georgenotsmith2804]

@Crosshair: Their Deep State backers, o/c.

[@georgenotsmith2804]

@Crosshair: Bernie might've said that; doesn't mean it's true. He's a politician, after all.

[@jasonlee8156]

And also not everyone wants to be in college wasting their time studying something that might be impractical or useless. In the video Bryan Caplan himself an economist with two degrees to his name even said that a lot of what students learn in school will be irrelevant in life because he/she will never use it. His book shown in the video is titled "The Case against Education: Why the Education System Is a Waste of Time and Money." He is stating the very thing that the colleges/universities don't want you to know or believe. That a lot of what passes for education is just plain useless and unecessary.

[@aniksamiurrahman6365]

@Crosshair Who'll defund them? The army generals, the college stakeholders, the Billionaires everyone. This is why Berny Sanders could never become anything more than a junior senator.

[@Cyphlix]

How long till 'no child left behind' is expanded to adult daycares?

[@uchiabetrayer2]

We need more people in trade schools.

[@peterpan8263]

uchiabetrayer2 then Promote more union work They’re the most successful trade schools

[@mortimerbrewster3671]

@@peterpan8263 You don't have to be in a union to be successful in trade jobs. The days when unions were required are gone -- now they just price employees out of jobs and businesses out of existence. If you are actually worth anything to an employer, you can negotiate a higher salary than a union would get you (because you wouldn't be at the mercy of paying the union dues and would keep all of your money). The only people who actually want unions are people who aren't worth that much so they want a mob rule where the salary they are not worth is forced to be paid.

[@martinyarbrough1609]

Dump Union’s they have outlived their usefulness

[@cubanamerican22]

Dropped out of college and went to a trade School for a year. Making $50k a year 24 years old no student loan Debt

[@hermenegildoc3933]

50k aimt shit

[@ItsGroundhogDay]

I hardly ever use anything I learned in college, and I didn't even attend any classes ending in the word studies.

[@iamcleaver6854]

@Transgenda Gubament Гуманитарии...

[@realdragon]

I almost on daily basis use what I learned in college. Just because you don't use it it doesn't mean it's useless

[@sierrachoco5271]

@@realdragon it really depends on what you major in. It sounds like you took the hard road - i.e. engineering or something similiar!

[@realdragon]

@@sierrachoco5271 Astronomy, but there are many other studies that also require knowledge from college like medicine, law, nurcery, mathematics. TBH if you work in a field of your studies you will use that knowledge on daily basis

[@sierrachoco5271]

@@realdragon well said!

[@Jane-gt6ef]

A hugely misleading title of this video. Should be "Why Apprentice Schools Might Be Better for You than a College". This video is populistic.

[@mortimerbrewster3671]

Are you complaining because it is populistic or because you wanted to watch a video about why free college is a terrible? Personally, I would rather watch an uplifting story about getting around the indoctrinating four-year university system and making a lot of money in the process. I would hope that as the universities teach less useful things more people realize that trade schools are not beneath them and there is a lot of money to me made for trade people no matter what the elitist "educated" assholes think.

[@ayandas874]

I understand that as a non libertarian, you might not be attuned to view the world in terms of supply and demand. Bringing awareness to such will lower costs without increasing the cost of living. Why? Because it advertises new forms of supply to make up the demand, thus the demand for college reduces, thus forcing colleges to reduce cost to compete for the students.

[@sanniepstein4835]

Would Warren have taken a pay cut to help make college free?

[@limabean6869]

No, why would she do what she preaches? Most of her money is conveniently under capital gains tax. I'll never trust someone who won't lead their policy by example.

[@torva360]

English major here. The university system was created to teach literacy, history, and theology. It was a way to further your own understanding by being surrounded by scholars who understood. They were places of study and research. "Academic." The idea that this evolved into a way of getting a job is interesting. Personally, I think colleges should stick to the academics and arts, then maybe have sister colleges that teach STEM fields. Academia is a noble pursuit, but it should not carry the expectation of a job.

[@nicolasleroux5302]

Will D. Skies Hello, I’d like a double pounder cheeseburger with fries and a coke, please. Oh, and extra ketchup.

[@torva360]

@@nicolasleroux5302 Nah man, but I can get you a towel because I work at a gym and freelance edit on the side.

[@vanbikeskiandfishboilermak1516]

Engineering major here. Academia does guarantee a high paying job. Your problem was your major. Ain't nobody getting paid off an English degree. What is the difference between a pizza and an english degree?? A pizza can feed a family of four.

[@wade1391]

@@vanbikeskiandfishboilermak1516 agreed. Unless you want to go into law. A English degree can be helpful for that.

[@miguelanguiano2]

Right after high school I joined the Navy and worked as an aviation electronics technician. I got out and got a job fixing radars. I've made well over 100K for the last 10 years. I went to school after the Navy as well and got a bachelor's degree in business management. I can honestly say the degree has not given me one single advantage on where I stand now. I got the degree just because I wanted to take advantage of my GI Bill.

[@hermenegildoc3933]

There is people that want to go to college fr studying things like Law

[@ralfyman]

The problem, then, isn't "free college" but college.

[@bobfognozzle]

In 1972 an engineering classmate of mine asked the department head what having a diploma meant to employers...he said a degree indicates to a prospective employer that you are TRAINABLE.

[@jeffersonianideal]

There are times when college itself is a terrible idea.

[@mortimerbrewster3671]

If it's not the STEM studies, it's a terrible idea. Everything else can be done at two year, trade schools or apprenticeships.

[@jeffersonianideal]

@@mortimerbrewster3671 How much "advanced" education can be done online, away from a traditional a brick and mortar college institution?

[@mortimerbrewster3671]

@@jeffersonianideal I know someone working on getting his college degree and will not be stepping into a classroom at all --- all of it online.

[@jeffersonianideal]

@@mortimerbrewster3671 Bravo to him. One day, the only reason colleges and universities will exist is to provide a place for student athletes to hone their football and basketball skills before hitting the professional arena.

[@mortimerbrewster3671]

@@randallN-sw6ee You jumped to the wrong conclusion. My point is not the everyone who goes to college should study STEM. My point is that if it's not STEM, don't do a four year university. The education system needs to be overhauled so that jobs that do not ACTUALLY require higher education should not require degrees. I never used anything I learned from university for any of my jobs but all have required degrees. I took a few classes to learn a few things in accounting that could and is taught in community college. Also, imagine being one of the STEMs that many are already spending 6-12 years of study being able to get rid of the unnecessary classes, reducing their debt and their age that they can start working and earning a salary. That would be a huge benefit to them as well.

[@xDDufiosy]

Why is everyone ignoring one crucial element, everything the government funds or subsidizes decreases in quality and increases in price. It's a measurable fact.

[@stevencooper4422]

The real issue is if all student loans are forgiven at once. Just imagine the inflation from the trillions in cash pumped into society

[@thetayterminator1436]

@@stevencooper4422 … cash is pumped into the economy all the time,. 4.5 trillion dollar bank bailout - No inflation 1.5 trillion to forgive student debt plus all the money people were paying for their student loans they can now spend in the economy and not just send it to a bank - and this you think will cause inflation?

[@thetayterminator1436]

Name a few things the Government is subsidizing that has "increased in price".

[@xDDufiosy]

@@thetayterminator1436 there is no inflation because the wealth is captured in economic bubbles. when the people cant take any more debt to purchase the over inflated assets from the excess printed money, the bubble pops and everyone who bought in and didnt get out loses their money, mostly the middle class.

[@xDDufiosy]

@@thetayterminator1436 Education is the biggest example. The cost of eaching a single child in any district has increased substantially since government has become more and more involved with the education system. Yes, many people say it is state funding and not federal, but look at college tuition costs (which is federal secured loans) prices have ballooned there as well. Lets not get into infalted costs for businesses to hire and maintain workers blowing out small - middle class businesses. the reason local businesses cant compete with Walmart and Target is the government.

[@wildeagle5791]

I have a college degree and I tell people it was a huge waste of time and money.

[@kutie216]

I'm still working towards mine and I totally agree.

[@englishpayerofgermantaxes8186]

I did a bachelor's degree in electrical and electronic engineering - one of the best things I have done in my life.

[@wildeagle5791]

​@@englishpayerofgermantaxes8186 Engineering degrees I understand because lessons you learn in school can be applied to really world scenarios. I have a degree in film production and the job I have in the industry doesn't need a degree so it was a waste of time and money. However, when it comes to STEM type jobs a degree is necessary, anything outside of that is a waste of time that includes the arts and most social studies.

[@MrCmon113]

@@wildeagle5791 Perhaps you should badmouth your film class then and not college in general. No one has ever said that a university education is required for artists.

[@mortimerbrewster3671]

@@MrCmon113 Everyone has the basic understanding that STEM needs an education -- nothing else does. Lawyers think they do but a focused study at a community college and high enough LCATs could be the only requirements for law school and that problem would be taken care of.

[@Uni85h]

Bryan Caplan, Praxis, and Mike Rowe? This might be my favorite Reason video ever

[@monsieurpnut]

Holy shit I just read the description and it’s a beautiful quote

[@jackfrost884]

100 percent

[@Gamer1st1]

2 years of vocational school always ends up being useful, and the loans, (if any) easily payable. And you can always get hired as a mechanic, (good to great ones are always in demand) or just start your own place. The job is fun, full of variety, and satisfying on a daily basis. And you’re not stuck in an office cubicle. Pay can run from $40,000 and up to $80,000+ a year plus benefits depending on location.

[@TheFrankyFigs]

With the quality of the liberal arts programs these days it’s kind of a waste of your 4 years...even if it is free.

[@ExclamationPeriodQuestionMark]

Is liberal arts mandatory?

[@laurens.2503]

Nothing is for free.

[@Jbroker404]

The one guy living the American dream is the one who couldn't be offered anything by college.

[@canttReid]

Mike Rowe is a legend

[@itsbeyondme5560]

Old ass guy

[@biffhenderson1144]

Simple supply and demand tells us that an excess supply of college degrees will drive the down the salary paid to people with college degrees. In other words, they will become a dime-a-dozen. So, people, once again will have to take additional courses on their own in order to differentiate themselves from the competition. Back at square one. Achieving a college degree should continue to be something special that only hard working, intelligent people achieve. The solution to the student debt problem is to eliminate student loans. Save up your money and then make a purchase. In general Loans are bad.

[@eddieb7054]

Anecdotal information. I'm a retired job counselor and I used to get very irritated at fellow counselors who would suggest to people that they could always be a carpenter or mechanic. They had no idea of the problem solving involved in remodeling a building or fixing a car. Also how to get along with people. I love education, but to often we forget what real education includes.

[@kitfisto1827]

Its not anecdotal. There are thousands of jobs in the skilled trades. And there will always be. Some of them pay very well without going into student loan debt to get them. College is not the right choice for everyone. To be "irritated" that counselors would recommend an alternative to a 4 year college, makes you part of the problem.

[@piknick111]

Good luck, we got too much bureaucracy and useful idiots that will vote otherwise.

[@realLoganMoody]

Then undergraduate would become the equivalent of a high School diploma

[@dogguy8603]

Its already becoming that

[@mrunstoppable6711]

If the government stopped subsidizing college, tuition cost would plummet. Then those who do need college could work their way through school. Furthermore this could weed out a lot of those student who shouldn’t be in college in the first place. Nobody wants to say it but a lot of people shouldn’t be going to college. A lot are being forced into college when they should learn a trade, hit the workforce or start a business. When they do go to college and have their worthless liberal arts degree with mountains of debt, they’re mad at the world and want to preach socialism. Education isn’t a right, and NOBODY should get free college. If you get the government out of the way this government created problem would fixed by supply and demand

[@hullbreach33]

Ive had high school teachers and administrators tell my kids "you wont amount to anything if you dont go to college". They do this so the high school can brag about how many of the students "go on to college". They dont give a shit about my kids and would happily sell them out to a mountain of debt in order to meet their numbers. No concern as to whether my kids are cut out for college or where their actual aptitudes lie.

[@XU23]

Counter argument: you are at college to receive an education, not just a particular skill. Reading, writing (!!!!), critical thinking, problem solving, and communication, are a few important things most college students learn how to do in general education courses. Being a well rounded, competent, intelligent person is just as important in the business world as learning a specific skillset, like finance or accounting

[@Jane-gt6ef]

Agree! College education can broaden your perspectives. It is up to you, which major you choose. If you choose wisely, good. If not, do not blame college education as general!

[@AntonioCostaRealEstate]

Nonsense. You get that type of education through reading , interacting , assimilating , observing. Most liberal education students don’t even bother to visit a library. And that coming from a library rat as I was.

[@emilee3151]

My dad is a diesel mechanic and makes $90k with no college in a state with low COL. My best friend is a machinist making $50k at 24 years old with no college degree. The money is there if you don’t think you’re too good to do the job.

[@kitfisto1827]

And willing to actually "work".

[@realdragon]

Not everybody is after money

[@enderwhitekey7238]

The professor's basic point is correct, College/University does not prepare people for real jobs. 1) However, education is a goal in an of itself. The demands of a capitalist economy should not be the only measure of wheather an education is successful or not. 2) The critique here should be that we reform how college and university are taught to be more relevant to our society. Not supporting the pay wall. 3) Nearly every person calling for free college also calls for free trade school. Conclusion: the arguments presented in this video are weak and do not give reason to doubt free education to all willing to work for it.

[@nondescriptnyc]

This is a little misleading. This logic may apply to, say, 50% of the high school graduates-who think of higher education as a vocational preparation opportunity. For others, going to college would be imperative in many ways. :earning about ostensibly “useless” and “irrelevant” topics WILL help them gain wider knowledge base, gain thinking skills, be exposed to a variety of perspectives (often left-leaning, but, still...), and satisfy their intellectual curiosity.

[@MandoFettOG]

Fantastic piece by reason.

[@timluns]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/gInIlH-Ood94jqc

[@maxpower4964]

No the reason is that no esay i Study in Germany(Fernuni hagen) and compare it to the pepel naw study in usa austalia and China to be onest wath tay have to do Past the Class is a joke.🤣🤣🤣 nobody Need you if you dont no enyting.

[@MandoFettOG]

@@timluns what is this link supposed to be...

[@timluns]

@@MandoFettOG LOL If you can't figure it out I can't help you buddy

[@MandoFettOG]

@@timluns how a video regarding employment and education has anything to do with fox news and greece will never be clear to anyone... Good luck

[@lenaoxton3999]

As a former college employee, I can attest with certainty, that the markup on necessary textbooks and material is monopolistic and casts a dark shadow on how good Capitalism can be. In addition, college executives do not deserve half-million dollar salaries, and presidents multi-million dollar ones. If executive wages (whose positions are almost purely nepotistic anyhow), were cut by merely 5-15%, college tuition could drop to ideally manageable levels. The problem is that colleges are run like Gilded Age companies. We do not need some socialist revolution like Bernie Sanders would like you to think, their greed needs to be parried by anti-trust lawsuits, for the benefit of their customers, AKA the students. The beauty of trust-busting is to stop any oligarch or oligarchs from controlling an entire industry, whether that be oil, steel, transportation, technology, or in this case, college degrees.

[@jaydunbar7538]

Government interference is what caused the excessive spending on the beuarocratic structure. Guaranteed government loans that can not be removed in bankruptcy has allowed the prices to inflate far beyond what the market can support, hence why it's referred to as a bubble. No banker would ever give someone a quarter million to go to school for a $15 an hour social workers job if the government wasn't backing the loan. Sure textbooks are outrageous, if you buy them at the school so you can just add them to your debt. Price doesn't matter with a government backed loan, just do it the easy way and sign the pad and be on your way it's future you's problem. The problems you described are problem with government interference, not with free market. I used to see things similar to you, then I spent a year studying history and economics on my own. For a few hundred on Audible I've gained more knowledge then the tens of thousands spent on school that I'm still paying off.

[@modernalchemist2690]

@Blashtifin Both sides are just as corrupt. I'd only argue that the leftist/socialist make it infinitely worse through government intervention. On a side note, that's exactly what makes capitalism so great. It makes it so those selfish/greedy individuals provide something useful to society. If consumers dont like or want it then they don't buy it. If employees don't like their wages they are free to leave and find a better job.

[@modernalchemist2690]

@Blashtifin Except there is alternatives in all of those cases. You simply go to another provider of those services/products. The only issues that lead to overinflated prices are from unnecessary government regulation. Healthcare is a pretty good example of this. How do we bring in competition if it takes years to push in a new drug? All this does is give corporations a monopoly through government strong arming the competition out. Housing is in a similar state. Rent is too high so we need to produce multi-unit apartment complexes. Again, government regulation is making it harder than it needs to be which subsequently keeps the cost of housing high. Well ya, if there isn't a way for a business owner to make a profit then there isn't a point in opening the doors in the first place. Employees aren't just guaranteed a part of the pie when they don't take on the risk. You're instead employed and given relative financial security for doing a particular task. Market socialism is just like you said, the employees actually take risk in the company they work in so they are given a portion of the profits. Not everyone wants to take on that kind of risk. Just the freedom of choice in action. The only "oppressive singular regime dictating people's lives" is the government. A government of democratically elected officials who constantly make decisions in their own personal benefit and not of the people who elected them. These same elected officials have the monopoly of force on their side. I'm no anarchist but government overreach is just about always the underlining issue in so many these cases. Yet people are still spouting that we need more government for government created problems.

[@red_light_3937]

This right here is the video I want to watch.

[@joeycottone7755]

@Blashtifin when you apply for a job, you agree to the pay or you don't and you move on, you're not forced to take it so bitching about the ceo making so much of your money doesn't hold water, and if socialism was so great, why do so many people from commie and socialist countries immigrate to a capitalist country? They all say it's for more opportunities and better life for their kids, because capitalism made it possible. Have you seen tbe videos of people losing their minds over chicken sandwiches at Popeyes? Or waffle house, taco bell, and mcdonald's? We can't handle two hour long bread lines here

[@SL2797]

To any leftist who might be reading this: Libertarians are NOT against free college or free anything. We are simply against those things being financed BY FORCE - by taking money from people against their will (a.k.a taxation) in order to fund such things. If private charities want to build free colleges and offer free education for people who need it the most, all financed through voluntary donations, then that's awesome and we are all in favor of that.

[@MrCmon113]

Libertarians are not anarcho-capitalists though. They are in favour of a state, that by it's very nature takes things from people by force. Of all of the things that could be done with the money taken from people by force, free education is certainly among those, which increase individual liberty the most.

[@frankienbloo1723]

@@MrCmon113 "That by it's very nature takes things from people by force." I willingly give up a portion of my wealth to make sure others do not steal or hurt me. We all have a duty to not stab and steal from each other. In contrast, funding programs which I don't want by force enslaves a portion of my work. "Free" education is enslaving a portion of the population so that others can go to college. More specifically, it will just be another democratic attempt to enslave the poor so that the middle-class and the rich can have "free" college. Individual liberty is not tied to desires such as the desire to go to college. That logic ends up with thinking "freedom to obey" makes any sense at all. plato.stanford.edu/entries/liberty-positive-negative/

[@watchmanstate9212]

Graduating from college was the worst decision of my life.

[@vanbikeskiandfishboilermak1516]

Sounds like whatever degree you got was the bad decision

[@vanbikeskiandfishboilermak1516]

@Dustin Eward plz explain how someone in school to be a doctor or neurosurgeon is stupid. The only thing that is dumb about college is all the worthless degrees that dont get you a guaranteed high paying jobs

[@abhishekdev353]

What in the world? That girl landed at impossible foods?? WOW, PRAXIS is doing a great job. Kudos to them.

[@DarkestKnightshade]

I absolutely refused the lie fed to me by my parents (especially my mom) and their (especially her) friends: that I had to go to a 4 year college to get a good job afterwards. So I got 48 hours of credit towards and AS with Field of Study in Comp. Sci. before I graduated from high school last year. Then I tried taking some more courses this last year, but my god, I was burnt the hell out (Lone Star College is a good college, the burnout mostly came from some bad professers and bad class setup, as well as taking needless classes like Physics and Calculus when I just want to get into coding and computers). Wasted a whole year. Now, I'm doing a web development bootcamp (which takes SIX MONTHS) for around the same price as if I had spent a whole TWO YEARS at my community college. Not only that, but I'll get some good hiring help and get a job right away, whereas if I got the A.S. of Computer Science employers would be like "Hurr durr you don't have a Bachelors or higher Gtfo". Here's how I would rank everything: 4 year university: Largely BS (pun intended) unless you are really smart and get a ton of scholarships. I have a super smart friend who took this route and is doing very well, but I don't recommend you do it if you are dissatisfied with the way most college treats its students in general and the exorbitant prices you have to pay 2 year college, with maybe a transfer to a 4 year college after the first 2 years: This is what I had planned to do, and it makes sense and saves you money. The reason I dropped out was because all the excess math related classes that I had to take for a degree to get me a job where I would just code and program was burning me out. That's the downside to regular colleges, no matter what: their degree plan will require you to take many classes that will be of no use to you once you are in the workforce Career college, bootcamp, intensive training course, etc: I highly recommend doing this. Like those technical institute ads you see on KZbin. Or the coding bootcamp I'm doing now. Or the trade school Gamez enrolled in. Or what praxis does where they get you an internship. This not only saves you a TON of money, but it prepares you for your career without wasting your time. You save money, you save time, AND you don't give your money to the big colleges. If more people do this/know about this, they will save their money, more people will be educated and not so far in debt, and the big colleges will slowly lose money and credibility, and we won't have crazy ideas like free college, because college will be a forgotten concept.

[@suggesttwo]

I'm an electronic technician by training. The most important thing I ever learned I learned as a teenager building and running RC cars. Corroded and loose connections, cold solder joints.

[@rangersmith4652]

Getting a degree does signal that you can persevere to finish what you started, but there are many ways to do that. It is far, far better to learn a useful trade than to go into debt to get a useless degree. I'm betting here that people who view this video have a pretty good sense of the sort of degree I'm talking about. I have five degrees, and I've only ever actually worked in the field of one of them. As a university professor, I encouraged students who were determined to stick it out to use their attendance to learn as much as possible and not be concerned about grades. This strategy nearly always resulted in solid skills and good job offers, often even before graduation. As a bonus, it also resulted in high grades. That said, I often broke with my administration by honestly counseling a student that he or she might be better served to pursue another avenue rather than college.

[@Roypb01]

COLLEGE is a terrible idea: 6 years of my life down the toilet for nothing. Complete waste of time and money. There's nothing you can learn in an academic context you can't teach yourself in a quarter of the time with a lot less misery. As for the "shit ticket"? My military discharge card was more use to me in the end. I have my present job (5 years now, longest job I've ever held) thanks to that. My degree never helped me, in any way. 2016 I tore it up and threw it out.

[@TheHigherVoltage]

Maybe you're ok going to a self-taught dentist...I'll stick to a qualified and properly educated one.

[@Roypb01]

@@TheHigherVoltage Good for you. So would I... But believe me, all those impressive-looking shit-tickets on your doctor or dentist's wall are no guarantee of competence. I speak from bitter experience. Meanwhile aside from the Health Professions I defy you to prove to me University is anything other than an unconscionable waste of time and money, a massive shakedown racket and a fraud. "The Personal MBA" sets out the economics of obtaining an MBA Degree, and it ain't pretty: As of a decade ago, you were looking at $200K of debt, and unless your shit-ticket was from an Ivy League, don't even bother, 'cause they won't even interview you... as for Medicine? I have a friend, did the medical gauntlet... He was THIRTY ONE, THIRTEEN YEARS after high school! Before he got all his shit-tickets, licenses and permissions to practice... As a family doctor.. he never specialized = how many more years wasted? ... 🙄

[@TheHigherVoltage]

@@Roypb01 " all those impressive-looking shit-tickets on your doctor or dentist's wall are no guarantee of competence." Name anything that is a guarantee of competence. I'm curious what that's suppose to be considering no one is perfect and we all make mistakes. Personally, I'd rather go to a doctor who's been to years of school, and had to pass a boat load of tests, than someone who 'feels' they are more qualified because they read some articles on the internet. It seems logical that my odds of getting effective diagnosis and treatment is substantially higher with someone who went to school for it compared to someone who didn't. " I defy you to prove to me University is anything other than an unconscionable waste of time and money" Personally, I'm glad our bridges and buildings are designed by university graduate engineers. I would imagine that if you stayed in school longer, you'd know that it's not up to others to prove your beliefs wrong...it's up to you to be able to prove your beliefs right..

[@_____._..--_]

TheHigherVoltage theres two dentist I trust. A dentist that has experience in the field A dentist that doesn’t have a degree but has experience in the field. If you’re just out of fucking college that done nothing but studying then how can I trust you to actually perform pulling my teeth out?

[@tashanaive4284]

@@TheHigherVoltage Many people just do not understand how much doctors and engineers have to learn. Like that circle of knowledge, the smaller the circle of your knowledge, the smaller its perimeter that represents things you know you do not know. Also the learning process needs to be structured by somebody who already knows the profession. There are plenty of engineering books out there now even available for free in the net, but you first need to know What exactly you need to know and How you should apply it.

[@ericgandara7438]

In life there are no free lunches besides their aren’t enough Billionaires and Millionaires to pay for all that “free stuff”

[@infirmux]

If you want to be a car mechanic, and don't plan on going into car design at VW, Ford, Tesla or Toyota, then plainly you don't need BA. Just the trade school should suffice. And yes, you can get work in a nice service car shop. And have a place of your own eventually. This is not what Universities are for. Anyway - the thing about free education is about removing barriers. Not necessarily Universities, but any/all education. Not "forcing" people either into Universities or trade schools. But not stopping them just because they cannot afford them. It will not fix everything, but for society at large, maybe it is worth it. The problem is not free/paid/overpaid but quality education for those that will benefit from it. Side notes: Let's not forget that not all Universities are same. Why they make a difference? Example: a properly educated coder is worlds ahead of only self-taught, quite efficient, but limited coder. There is more to coding than just knowing languages (even many). Meanwhile this vid looks a bit like a shill for Praxis. I don't argue they are not worth anything, but this is still more like an ad. And about working your ass off - that's conformity to the greed driven business model. If you think I support slacking etc., you miss the point.

[@areasonableperson24]

Anything WORTH having is worth Working for.

[@parus6422]

If you look at all countries with free college, it's highly selective. If you don't have grades "good enough" for the free college you have to pay for a private one.

[@r3dp1ll]

well not here in France. The selection is for the second year

[@morgainenyc]

This is nonsense. College wouldn’t be “free” they would choose to invest in certain students. War is not free. Societies chooses to bear the cost. The need for everyone to go to college should de-emphasized as its not for everyone. Making college “free” would take away the incentive/scam of going to college in the first place.

[@lithium25693]

70% of US high schools students go to college but in France where college is free only 30% of high school students go to college.

[@superdudization]

I've never understood why it's one or the other. We either encourage people to be more realistic and see higher education only as a means to specific ends or we make it free... Shouldn't it be both or neither? Increase the requirements to get in, remove all useless courses. Consider it an investment in society for high skill jobs that require further education the same way we do making sure everyone can read and write but encourage people to only do it if they know what they want to do with their lives? You can even throw in conditions like a few years working for the public sector in exchange like many European countries do.

[@Mike-sv2nu]

A degree is just a class badge.

[@eyalsi1070]

Well, the solution is to fix our terrible education system.

[@michaelsommers2356]

College or university is not supposed to be just a glorified trade school.

[@wakawaka1976]

Michael Sommers it’s not even that. Trade schools you learn a skill but at college you learn how to be indoctrinated into leftism. So free school to teach you to vote for more leftist policy to bankrupt the nation!

[@michaelsommers2356]

@@wakawaka1976 That depends on what you study. If you study, for example, engineering, you definitely learn skills.

[@MrBrelindm]

This asks the question; do we need automatons with wallpaper or entrepreneurs with a burning passion? Glad to see someone reporting on these alternatives to indebted graduates. I'm a Native American who in 2004 applied for and received the Indian Tuition Grant and the PELL Grant and went to OCC in Waterford Michigan. I actually got paid just over $1,200 per semester for being on the Dean's List each time! I had already been running my own IT services business for 6 years before I went back to school. The accounting knowledge gained at school has been most useful in remaining profitable in a very competitive gig economy labor market. It also proved invaluable when I and my sister - through her power of attorney - did a forensic audit of our mother's finances to uncover evidence of elder abuse and gift wrapped it for the Stark County Prosecutor's Office.

[@jackmcslay]

After this video, I got an ad for a college enrollment

[@motnosniv]

Impossible Foods? Sounds like starvation to me.

[@christiangranum7387]

College and university are tuition-free in Norway, and hey, we seem to be doing just fine.

[@harrymills2770]

Your tiny country is about the same size as one of our states. Many states in the USA have "land-grant colleges" that are very cheap. When you have a mono-culture society, where everyone conforms to the same values and norms, "state-run" institutions can work very well. But in any one of our states in the USA, there's more diversity than in all of Norway. What works for homogenized cultures on a small scale does not work for a country our size and diversity. Plus the USA is a bunch of irreverent assholes who fled every other country. We're pretty unruly and pretty obnoxious. We will not conform to something GOOD because we hate conformity so much. The only thing that keeps us in line is the knowledge and tradition that you can't take from others by force. You have to offer VALUE to receive value. And that makes us pretty well-behaved on the big stuff. But not so much for kids raised in the public school system to be entitled socialists.

[@xallthatremains8339]

@@harrymills2770 Excellent points that so very few seem to understand when comparing American and European entitlement programs

[@robertb.4202]

Education beyond high school is very important. We just have to stop acting like elitist snobs and assume that is only means college. Frowning upon skilled labor has hurt us in many ways.

[@blankblank1949]

It always depends on your field of study(ies) some like Medical,Economics,Physics,Math,Bio-science, etc needs those degress but some of them doesnt need degree like IT/Computer science (into some degree), other jobs that just need trade schools

[@Emidretrauqe]

"Young people should have more access to early professional opportunity." Yes, but until then most of them are going to have to get a degree to get escape the nightmare that is the American lower class. You can't go to a trade school to be a doctor or a lawyer, or a computer technician, or a chemist, the list goes on. And I'm happy to see that even this video acknowledges that colleges are too expensive for those that do have to go, even if it refuses to draw the obvious conclusion that public colleges should be made less expensive.

[@ProductBasement]

I don't doubt that some mechanics make good money. I chose to go to college because I wanted to work while sitting, in a climate-controlled environment, moving only my fingers, and to not need a shower when I get home. Different strokes

[@vanbikeskiandfishboilermak1516]

Congrats you are officially a salad dodging keyboard racer

[@roskichan3001]

This guy is is like me. We though the same thing because that's what the society told me too.. now I'm regretting things and how much time I've wasted.

[@chriswyatt3674]

I would note that the Sanders plan seems to include trade schools. From berniesanders.com/issues/free-college-cancel-debt/ "Pass the College for All Act to provide at least $48 billion per year to eliminate tuition and fees at four-year public colleges and universities, tribal colleges, community colleges, trade schools, and apprenticeship programs. Everyone deserves the right to a good higher education if they choose to pursue it, no matter their income."

[@somescorpio1798]

"College" is NOT the same as "University." Many colleges offer trade and certificate programs, while universities offer traditional studies meant to lay the groundwork for graduate program research. So, yes, free college WOULD BE massively beneficial to the economy, regardless if the student wishes to be a researcher or practitioner.

[@ianmcgeehan4627]

I think the book should've been called "The case against what education has become"

[@bruhdabones]

When media companies do stories about people who are struggling, it would be really nice if we also knew they helped the person/people they talked about, like maybe a letter of recommendation for one of these students or a small grant.

[@1911beauty]

University degrees are only needed for about 15% of all jobs. I have a ph.d I am so glad I have it. It allows me to do the work I wanted to do. But to have these degrees and not wanting to do research and training, is down right stupid

[@timslocombe9747]

Trade schools have come back into a positive light, and I know many high schools in my area that have a connection with one. There are plenty of students that will graduate HS with a certification in a certain field and can easily out earn many recent college graduates. This video doesn't track past Praxis students compared to a college graduate with the same training which leaves many unanswered questions. I also believe college is a good tool to explore different academic/career interests and if done well only adds more value to the degree.

[@brianschwatka3655]

The problem will be that if college becomes "free" you can be assured that the college option will be the first choice. If told you can go an easy route for free or a difficult route even though you will be paid human nature will look to the easy route.

[@maxwellmurdoch]

They make me want to run up a student debt.

[@lefrise5]

In Belgium private companies don't really decide how much they pay you. They have to pay you in function of your diploma and years of experience. So basically whether you are good or not at your job is irrelevant.

[@mpa8336]

The problem has been that student loans were available. So colleges raised their prices, without limit. In the 1940's, one could work, and go through college- with no debt. My father did it. Colleges don't teach nearly as much as they used to.

[@truckerenoch8824]

Highly discounted trade school … maybe ...but probably not ..."free college" *absolutely not!!!*

[@cones914]

Everyone talking about free college should really start talking about free booze.

[@Jkub101]

I have absolutely ZERO problems with free college. When do I get my 13.5k (in 2008 money) check adjusted for inflation and compound interest? Somebody do the math for me what that would be worth today. I skipped that class...

[@chewface]

If college was free, it would have no value. Employers would start hiring people for new and unique programs and certificates they earned by paying. They don't care about grades. They care about the money and time you put in.

[@MarinelliBrosPodcast]

Kids have to stop being told 'university is the path to success'. Unless you want to go into engineering, law, medicine, finance (even then it depends) or sciences, there is many high paying jobs that don't require a degree. I also think that people forget about skilled trades which are in high demand.

[@heuganian7252]

i know some bankers that dont have degrees, you're right b0ss

[@hermenegildoc3933]

I wanted to be a lawyer

[@diamondgarcia9409]

None of the video had anything to do with free college. It only argues that it's not for everyone (free or not) and that GEs are pointless

[@joshspurkowski8946]

How about bringing back public trades schools for high school students, then they can do paid apprenticeships through co-op programs for half the day to earn money while working toward certifications?

[@jstringer213]

Education...the A student works for the B student at the company owned by the C student...free college will not be free...I spent my hard earned money to put my girls through college...I want my money back!!! BTW ... I wonder what these colleges will charge our government for tuition and salaries for the professors...God only knows... What kind of government curriculum will be mandated?

[@dlake145]

Learning to be a drone

[@BradLeclerc]

Seems like the title should be "College is a Terrible Idea" (which I'd fully agree with)... but good job with the irrelevant click-bait nonsense I guess?

[@BradLeclerc]

Reading comprehension really not your thing I guess huh? that's ok. we all have our blind spots.

[@samueljohnston9639]

I have a friend that graduated high school and went straight into some sort of class with BMW (maybe, i cant remember, but somewhere making cars) didnt pay a cent in classes and is making $60 an hour now, no payed higher education needed

[@hamsandwich6187]

Years ago, in order to be even interviewed for a sales job, I lied and told them I had a 4 yr degree. They hired me and my production kicked all the other (college graduate) salespeople's asses and before too long I was promoted. That means that the employer, as are so, so many other employers, was foolish to maintain a policy of considering only degreed applicants, (or good liars). Today I own my own business and maintain policies based on reality, practicality and effectiveness rather than stupidity and ignorance. I don't recommend lying, but in that case the result hurt no one and helped the employer and me, and my efforts also set a high production standard and work ethic for the other salespeople.

[@unpaintedcanvas]

The video itself makes a good case about the destigmatization of trade school and of trade school as a viable alternative to college. It really annoys me whenever people put down trade school or people going to trade school - as if that somehow makes them lesser. The video does a good job constructing an argument in favor of multiple post-high school pathways. However, the title almost has nothing to do with the core premise of the video: the destigmatization of trade school or specialized schools. In addition, when the video does connect to the title it's in a very red herring, "whataboutism" manner to the argument of "free college". Now these "free college" hooklines these politicians tout are nothing but idyllic pipe dreams, it at least, in an albeit wishful manner, gets at the issue that tuition fees are increasing exponentially above the inflation rate for no good reason. My chosen profession requires at least a bachelor's degree, and while I'm going to a pretty good public school, its tuition rate is still stupid. These rates in general are what kept me from going to a better school, be that private or out of state. My father went to the same school I'm in a few decades ago, and it only cost him a little bit more than the current tuition rate of community colleges. And that's adjusting for inflation. The praxis program mentioned at the end seems promising enough. I hope things like that take off in the coming years.

[@jasonlee8156]

Well the colleges don't want any competition from the trade schools so they naturally they want to brainwash everyone into thinking that they are not as good as a four year education program. Especially theirs. Otherwise it's less tuition money they can sucker out of people.