Why Genshin Endgame Is Designed To Fail

[@JelloImpact]

I would add one more thing to that end game loop PNG I made at the end: your choice of how you like to enjoy your characters. Whether that’s abyss and exploration like me, teapot, just existing, something else, or if you can’t find your own satisfying part and then you get burned out like many do. Just to hopefully quell some comments: it was designed to fail for some, so it could succeed for others. Whether or not they walk the right line is up for debate, but you can’t deny that the game remains wildly successful. Personally I think they can easily address certain things without loosing the causal side, but let me know what you think!

[@sino6217]

You forget to bring up the local legends that spice up the overworld. It is not that genshin has no endgame, the problem is that it not envolves or grows. Even newer players out pace the endgame in a couple of months. Also making money is the worst defence, the game is successful, but they need to do everything in their power to earn more? Endgame can be monitized. I was loving your content but am feeling a shift towards more lenient to the game

[@I.disagree]

Genshin should have more combat endgame variety, I cant say I find that easy to implement though since even HSR's endgames kind of bore me after some time, they'd have to keep updating it in order to keep people engaged enough and I wonder if they recognize that and would just rather focus on working on the next region. Unfortunately, I feel like the earliest time we'll get more permanent replayable combat content, will be when the main storyline ends and all the regions have come out

[@seraphaeton]

1. Chests and Loot that Respawn Each New Banner. 2. Higher World Levels and Multiply the amount of Enemies to fight with Primogems that Drop Occasionally. Generally just Better Loot from enemies. 3. A Constant Combined Open World not just Private ones. It Needs Real Co Op! There, My 3 Cents 😌

[@Karthaen]

"Loosing" instead of "losing" Everywhere I look I see it Gonna cope n scream in a corner tbh

[@anguyen4576]

@@I.disagree I think you're right. Even from Jello's video, the game has plenty of variety in terms of gameplay types. Another combat mode probably wouldn't hurt but it could easily turn into a similar situation to HSR's endgames. Pure Fiction is just MOC with quirky buffs and the devs are looking to make getting thru SU a better experience somehow. I can imagine a good chunk of Genshin's development team prioritizing on Natlan and Khanreiah right now. Even after the Teyvat chapter wraps up, Hoyo could easily do another overhaul like with Hi3 if they choose to do another chapter in Genshin.

[@amaan5421]

TLDR: it’s not about the end game it’s about the friendship levels we gained along the way

[@booodle]

I thought you were joking but that's what he actually says. bruh

[@ibetterbearoundyou]

shut up

[@djmindcrasher]

This but unironically. I maxed friendship of all my characters.

[@riotangel4701]

“Fireworks are for now, friendships are forever” ~ Naganohara Yoimiya

[@guest_zzroman2076]

The real endgame is logging in for 20 minutes on bathroom breaks and then going ahead and playing better games.

[@extra1565]

You mean non gacha games? Because after playing so many gachas I end up quitting most of them, their "endgame" turns out to be P2W or very repetitive content, only exception being PGR, which is why I'm looking forward WuWa as a meta game and Genshin as the casual game it was always meant to be

[@ruy7164]

@@extra1565 the more I hear about WuWa the more I want to play it. The only disadvantage is that I prefer the fantasy aesthetic.

[@slothsupporter7902]

Just how long are your bathroom breaks?

[@Cajun_Seasoning]

@@ruy7164 maybe it'll grow on you. If not you can always come back to genshin

[@salceds]

The way you still ended up playing regardless 😭😭😭😭😭

[@baanfrey]

There seriously NEEDS to be an endgame for co-op. Farming being literally the only content to play with friends is extremely boring. Co-op combat events have been the most fun so far but we need a long term endgame to play with friends. It also gets people to bring their friends into the game cause there’s actually something to do in co-op other than boosting someone or farming domains. So it’s a win-win for MiHoYo’s wallet.

[@baronteodoro3938]

They need to fix the connection first. I kept getting hit by air in the lunar new year mini-games

[@rsstello]

Last patch has that coop event that was a really cool system, like a semi raid boss that they could develop to make it a real endgame system

[@Shane_A_M]

We need two different Spiral Abysses, one that is single player exclusive, and another that’s multiplayer exclusive. Separate so the difficulty can be tuned accordingly.

[@plvto1]

WINDTRACE SHOULD BE PERMANENT WINDTRACE SHOULD BE PERMANENT WINDTRACE SHOULD BE PERMANENT

[@tim64163]

well it's even problematic, cause the current "speedrun farms" that people can do require you to have a really good pc so that you don't fall behind when porting from waypoint to waypoint. They should add instanced content that is playable with friends yeah.

[@BloodSlinga]

The true Genshin endgame is to scroll all the NSFW subreddits to admire all the talented artwork thousands of people put out there.

[@Chippyz7]

🗣🗣🔥🔥🔥

[@salceds]

Oh, what would you be without porn addiction

[@shayaanm7122]

giga real

[@ChromaLuke]

As long as you could filter out all the AI stuff

[@supernieva2419]

Yes especially fan songs they are really good

[@SpicyFox-0]

I use the teapot solely to get the extra resin once a week (the friendship is a bonus)

[@Suhrvivor]

Me too. I filled the place with the lion statues outside and the folding screens inside to reach max energy and called it a day. 😂

[@funkmaaru]

The xp books weapon xp and artifacts xp is soooo nice too

[@dr.princess832]

Unfortunately same. I REALLY tried to decorate my teapot. Like really really really tried. Its impossible, you place like ten objects and thats it.

[@zukodude487987]

I do teapot but i cant be bothered to do the transomofier thingy for mats.

[@Lennis01]

The mode is too limiting to do anything except max out your domain for rewards. I tried to take it seriously at first, but the fact that you have to get invited to another player's teapot (good luck with that if you're not World Level 8) just to unlock the early furnishing sets is a real turn off. And what's more insulting is the memory space you're given to trick out your space. To my credit, I managed to make my domain somewhat interesting and didn't just slap things on the ground at random, but my interest quickly waned once I reached trust level 10. Aside from a 20 primogem achievement for making 600 furnishings, there's no real incentive to taking things further. Best to save the realm currency for the weekly rewards and otherwise leave it alone.

[@geoforce6228]

Even though I'm one of the players who hate genshin's lack of end game and its waste of potential, I gotta say Mihoyo truly understands the Chinese market well. Chinese people live in a high pressure society where there is endless comparison and competition, most people feel insecure and anxious, they are too used to comparing and competing that they do so subconsciously. That's why despite Genshin is pretty much a single player game, any element of competitiveness would still stress out a lot of players. It's the reason genshin tries so hard to avoid stressing out casual players, because if harder content exist, many people would feel like the company is baiting them to spend or to grind, giving them a sense of inferiority. Most successful games focus on a group of core audience, Genshin on the other hand, focus on a much broader audience, to the point it becomes a minigame simulator. When we complain that genshin lacks core gameplay, we gotta realize it's intentionally trying to avoid core game play to satisfy a broader player base. Its goal is to become part of people's daily life. Chinese people's time is extremely limited and fragmented. Therefore. rather than being a traditional sense of "game" with deep gameplay, genshin tries to become the "topic" that people can talk about in the office or at school. The more friendly it is towards broader audience, the more people will keep talking about it, therefore the more popular it gets. People will discuss their favorite characters at work, at school, etc., despite not having much time to play, they still have something to look forward to in their daily life, and they would have the motivation to spend on characters.

[@JelloImpact]

very very well said

[@Dojafish]

I argue Genshing has a core gameplay Exploration ,story and combat . Which the three of them are intertwined and support each other. You get to a new region ,you explore ,do puzzles ,collect things . Along the way you do the quest (depending what you prefer ) and also get the materials to upgrade your new character that was featured in the said story quest you did . Anything else ,it's just an extra .

[@DefinitelyNotAFerret]

But what about the other games of the same company-

[@KokomiClan]

I completely disagree. For a game that tries to be "broad audience friendly" it has a lot of grindy systems, very bloated dialogue involving NPC's, a load of early game restrictions like reduced stamina, forced map completion to get stamina, etc. Most super casuals with limited playtime are not even gonna have most characters and if they do then the story and region disconnect is not gonna be fun relative to their current progress. Character content is also lacking: How many Act I for characters are we still stuck on? I would love a far more organic solution like in HSR where characters msg you - it actually feels like they exist in the world. That means when "I" go to school or sit on a train I can talk about my fav character having messaged me, etc. Genshin gives none of that. What people talk about are Genshin memes - a funny character quip or memorable thing that gave everyone a laugh. Example: Paimon being emergency food is something everyone gets - a deep discussion about Paimon's character and her development of separation anxiety as the story progressed is ignored by 99.9999999% of players since nobody cares. Anyhow, let's acknowledge the real problem: Genshin had all the hallmarks of a gacha game when it started, it blew up as a game beyond everyone's expectations, and now it is handled more carefully with many more corporate "eyes" on it. This leads to such a few whacky experiences where design philosphies are clashing with map, enemy, ability, etc. designs. [Example: Weapon series vs unique weapon designs for signature weapons]. At the end of day, the game is just a business designed currently to get new players in - NOT keep existing players with limited time on their way to school talking about it.

[@morgangreene5726]

You need something to do with your new character. Anddd people would spend more if there was a use for character constellations. As of now there’s no point in getting constellations. It kind of blows my mind that Genshin still remains the top with how little hoyo does to even do basics like resin spillover or artifact load outs qol updates

[@azuarc]

That "secret" endgame isn't the least bit secret. The real secret endgame is the deep dives into the lore.

[@NightmareRex6]

or findign anothe rpaimon barrior bypass glitch. zero hour.

[@KhoDialga]

Holy based.

[@icecell]

Real.

[@anhelaanhela4996]

No, the real endgame is collecting all the friendship cards. If you ever found yourself with all your friendship lvls fully maxed - you know the deal.

[@DefinitelyNotAFerret]

Full achievements used to be worth getting until hoyo made it easier to get them...

[@eherden2169]

You reach endgame when you are able to skip events and play the game when you want, not caring about the daily rewards you missed. In short, when you are free of the daily habit and FOMO.

[@BulletSponge71436]

Endgame is about the game itself. And miHoYo *themselves* should implement features such as "skip event" button for example. Right now Genshin is not a real game. It will always need an endgame game mode, unless miHoYo decide to actually address the lack of combat endgame content.

[@moeyonce]

by the way, if you 36 star the abyss, you get a whopping 600 primos!!! So that's 1200 primos per month, which isn't even worth 10 pulls... :)

[@Demonblade777]

Yes but if you 33 you get 550 .... 30 ? Here have 500 .....that's not a good incentive .

[@baronsionis6855]

It's effortless anyway. Neuvi completely trivializes everything.

[@xLuis89x]

​@@baronsionis6855that's why I don't have him, what's the point of making the game so easy you just spam charged attacks until everything is dead?

[@tomy9221]

@@xLuis89x sounds like cope. I do agree that it might get boring after some time playing him, but who wouldn't want a character that wipes clean all the enemies with a single charged attack?

[@GCanopus]

​@@xLuis89x Sonny fan W

[@Kollieprime9]

The exploration is what keeps me coming back, for technically being free this games probably one of the best open world games, and it just gets bigger and better every other patch

[@thuaners]

yes the exploration is so good! loved the new Liyue zone recently! And the singing boatman! 😮👏

[@N-ew7sr]

You mean the same exploration systems they’ve had for 3 straight years and released new areas every so months just to goa round and collect chests in similar ways?

[@noob.69sb]

You mean gacha open world right right?

[@Lennis01]

It astounds me that a gacha title like Genshin handles exploration so much better than other games. It was what attracted me to Genshin in the first place. The presentation and the controls are both top-tier.

[@thuaners]

@@Lennis01 yes 🥰 And factor in the beautiful music too, i love it so much

[@TexasRedFam]

Ive never 36 starred, I beat floor 12 one time, with 1 star. The Games Story/ exploration is why I play

[@grant6864]

Good points, but I also think it's important to mention the Archon Quests. I heard a lot of people saying they dropped the game around 3.5 and came back for Fontaine. I believe people are doing the same now. While the story may not be a main focus, the writing, especially in Fontaine, is very good. Not only do people fall in love with the pixels Hoyo is trying to sell, but the whole Teyvat lore is so elaborate that people won't get bored easily

[@Gnidel]

Sumeru burned out many people in general.

[@RareAngelz]

I am of the opinion that Genshin is a story game that just happens to have good combat.

[@mrfatmancory]

Tbh sometimes I feel like I'd be more inclined to play if I could skip the story. I used to care, but I just got burnt out by so much damn fluff.

[@ucmanhle9601]

While I love Genshin's story, endgame by definition is things you do after you finish the story, so talking about the story is kinda pointless.

[@planetary-rendez-vous]

@@RareAngelz With this perspective it's literally a trap to pay, pulling characters is a trap because you have to spend time tp gear them which takes away from story time, farming to clear spiral abyss is a trap because all it gets you is more gems for pulling which makes you spend more time farming etc ; unfortunately I've fallen into the trap

[@butatokage332]

I think you're missing one major part people might keep returning to this game. Like with pretty much every rpg, people play them at least partially because of the storyline. When new areas get added, new main storyline quests also become available, and I believe this is what attracts players back to genshin after having breaks from the game. I think it's interesting how hoyoverse has managed to include elements from real cultures and religions and them into their game without them feeling too forced. The character designs, nomenclature and other lore have a nice bunch of small details that have some kind of interesting real life counterparts behind them. I think you could even make a video series of character designs, where you could analyse what their names mean in some language, certain decorations from their clothing resembling some real life counterpart etc. If you need examples, Nilou's silly looking hat/head decoration is from Sumerian and Akkadian iconography, and similar looking head pieces can be seen on depictions of deities and rulers. Edit: My point was, (not sure if it counts as 'endgame' though), some people keep playing because they want to see how the story ends, and what's the deal with the whole world of Teyvat and that mystery goddess we briefly see at the beginning of the game.

[@Dojafish]

This ! Gamers(especially hardcore ones) ,fail to see a point of view beyond theirs and understand that people plat the game for different reasons . Some aren't interested in abyss ,or they fine with it and that what the gen devs are catering to .

[@skelebro9999]

I think I'm an example of them. I left around 2.0 and came back sometime after 3.0 because I was bored and had other games to play. And yeah the game is quite culture rich. I was shocked to see one of my favourite Indian dishes in the Chinese game lol.

[@skelebro9999]

@@Dojafish Genshin is a big game and people play this for different reason. Some love the lore, some love the combat, some craft theories and people like me love collecting characters.

[@stanysk]

It does not. You may call hangouts, hidden quests or character quests endgame but not the main story.

[@butatokage332]

@@stanysk Well it's not repeatable, so if the term means some menial grind that you can repeat out of boredom, you're right. But when the story finishes, Genshin will end for some players. There would be just no point continuing to play the game if you just wanted to experience it yourself and see how the story ends. This game is not mmo in full sense after all.

[@maevethefox5912]

The most fun I've had with current endgame content is trying to beat abyss with stupider and stupider teams. Clearing with DPS Candace gives me close to that first time thrill in a way that building Neuvilette hyperbloom never will.

[@andrinaleong4079]

Same here. I love using characters which people said are ‘bad’ to 36-star the abyss. The latest ones which I’ve done are Itto-Chiori team and C6 Dori hyperbloom.

[@astroh4936]

​​@@andrinaleong4079those are decent teams tho 😭 like way better than DPS Candace

[@andrinaleong4079]

@@astroh4936 For 4-Star characters, I test them when they are C6 (full kit) and Dori is the latest addition. She is a long-forgotten character but C6 actually frees up a slot for Furina in hyperbloom team and makes the team strong. Alloy is the next character to test.

[@maevethefox5912]

@andrinaleong4079 c6 Dori is so much better than most peoope think, the jump that the infusion and energy management gives is so massive. I super want to do Sleepy DPS Layla next she gets a rerun if I can C6 her.

[@skelebro9999]

trying to beat fl 12 with neuvillette plunge is peak genshin

[@bradyseigfried2395]

Highly agree with many points made here. I'd also add that the 'keeping things accessible' mentality that has created many of the design to fail issues is also important for other reasons. Part of what keeps me coming back to Genshin is that I never feel punished for engaging in some content but not others.

[@Jayfeather4x]

I am someone who plays genshin on and off and it is because of imo what is lack of end game content, I have 90% of my characters maxed out and have most of the characters that I want and am rarely motivated to pull for more these days. I am passionate about game design myself and am pursuing a career in the gaming industry and am probably a little bit biased because of that as I see a lot of issues in genshin as hoyoverse purposely leaving them out as fixing them would actually potentially while being good interfere with the psychology of keeping the players coming back (tldr addiction/habbits). I find the whole casual vs hardcore players debate f*cking riddiculous, end game content does not need to be mandatory same as teapot and fishing arent which are what most would deem casual designs, same as you dont have to participate in them it can be designed so that casual players dont have to participate in end game. Sure the rewards might motivate them a bit but end game should not be enticing just cause of rewards but actually be fun itself otherwise it just defeats the purpose of end game content if its a one and done deal. there is COUNTLESS possibilities for creating end game content and pretending like it can only cater to 1 type of player or that it will harm the casuals and other usual excuses are just to me delusional and point to someone who hasnt really thought about actual design. circling back to main point I think hoyoverse hasnt added end game content because it wouldnt be proffitable for them, it might satiate players making them not log in constantly every day and build habbits, and obviously its going to be free content that will need developement time which they could use on other things that will bring in money and this is one of those moments where we as players should just demand to not be treated like cashcows, the game is making them insane amounts of money and they should invest into its quality vertically not just horizontally. The reason why I think so many genshin players are extra vocal about this (imo which they should be and it rly annoys me when people try to silence legitimate complaints and critiques) is because they can see the potential. Yes genshin is a gacha game where getting your faves is the general main selling point but we forget that gacha games are usually very simplistic and quick to play in nature but genshin also has a lot of elements in its core design that are DEFINITELY not traditional for the gacha systems and thats partially where that big clash comes from, it feels like 2 opposing genres meshed together, there is so much potential to expand and build on elements that are akin to mmorpgs or action based games with genshins combat being really dynamic and strategic. also it would just be fun to actually do something fun with friends in genshin, the "coop" in this game is just horrendous

[@BulletSponge71436]

I agree with most of your points besides the "endgame should not be mandatory" point. Unless I'm mistaking, you mean that Endgame content shouldn't be a *must* in Action RPGs? (which is Genshin) Endgame content must be added no matter what! *Combat* endgame content.

[@pyronado4320]

I think having an option of how you get your daily rewards would benefit the game a lot. The game gives 60 primos daily that can be collected by either commission or exploration. If you add combat tcg teapot to the mix then the people will be able to get it by playing their favourite modes. Keep in mind its same resource you can get through different means and not different things from different modes

[@Suriyakeng]

The real end-game are friends that I've made along the way. Especially those who are still online and not 31+++ days ago

[@TurdBoi666]

Friendship levels with characters is the real end game 🤫🧏🏼‍♂️

[@RandomMusik]

People that sit in your friendlist and you don't do anything with them because the only co-op content is to spend resin which takes 2 Minutes every day.

[@elkren24]

Thanks a lot for this great analysis. To be honest I don`t understand the endgame discussion. We have learned from the very first day in the game, that there are coming 7 regions even with a timeline. Why should there be an endgame in the middle of it? Abyss: a good idea to embed endgame-like content during the journey. TCG: very good idea, but I don`t play it because it would take too much time. Housing: I am using it for the rewards, it`s okay. Exploring/Puzzle/Combat: it is the mix that I like so much. It is the design of the characters and of the landscape. And it is the music. For me that is by far enough to have fun every day for over 3 years. Even being a low spender, I have collected over 60 characters. That is satisfying enough too.

[@ziggymugstube]

For exploration they really need to ditch the "100%" completion in it's current state as it's wildly inaccurate as there's always loads left to find after hitting "100%". Making it actually accurate it would have me going back and finding more stuff, I'd love to get the true 100%.

[@bjornnilsson2941]

Yeah it's pretty annoying that you have to rely on achievement counters on the wiki to see if you actually got everything on the map. Then there's always those handful of chests that you can never find even after going over every inch of an area with a magnifying glass and the interactive map lol. But I do get quite a rush when I randomly run into even a common chest in an area that I long since thought I'd cleared completely so I don't mind it too much.

[@amandaslough125]

It's so you can actually complete it without having to go hardcore double checking everything constantly. The 100% completion is like 95% anyway. Better then a few games I know where the exploration has 100% but you only need 55% for any gameplay progress.

[@arthena2130]

My problem with this idea or at least how I feel is that for every character I get a feel less motivated to play, because I can't use them all, and I have nothing to really use them on. There is just no point if there is nothing more reliable to use them in. I still feel slight motivation to collect characters because I am missing certain elements and supports to reliably do the abyss, but after that I don't know if I will feel any pull towards the game, since I can already do everything with I have.

[@potakettlefight]

I really enjoy this kind of content too, where you dive into the functioning of the business model of the game. Your analysis is spot on.

[@John_II]

I think Jello's point about the highest Abyss Floors e.g. 9-12 (or IMO, 11-12) is quite right. I think Hoyo didn't want to make too much Abyss FOMO for anyone who cannot clear floors 11-12, which are harder than floors 9-10 and lower, so the rewards for clearing are the same. Hoyo could choose to make the floors 9, 10, 11, and 12 of escalating reward value to reflect the difficulty, but so far has not. I'm actually kind of relieved because I can 9* floors 9, 10 and 11, no problem, but Floor 12 I've only ever got like 3 *s of 9*. But I don't relentlessly try floor 12 because I know I'm only missing 100 primos (which is less than two days of commissions, almost the same as a Welkin day and frankly less than you can get from a time-limited event) and some mora which almost literally grows on trees. So there is no FOMO for me - it's fun to try, but I don't want to stress about it, so I don't and there's little incentive to stress about it. There's an argument to be made for better Abyss awards, but I would bet it's only hardcore players who care. My understanding is the vast majority of players don't try floors 11-12 of the Abyss, so why would they care if the rewards are better?

[@niicespiice]

i wish there was more co-op stuff, that's one of my most wanted things! and maybe more outfits for characters, considering the end-game loop really is just character collection.

[@baizhu]

more co-op stuff would be nice. my friends don’t care about the game nearly as much as i do, but i enjoy farming with and helping them. i’d love to see co-op raids like albedo’s whopperflower event or even just the ability of exploration in others’ worlds (like if you both find a chest in that person’s world, it will count as explored/claimed in your own)

[@Romashka_Sov]

1) Teapot limitations are not just because of mobile (btw looking at HI3rd pc port, devs do not bother much, it's not because of mobile appreciation), but also because teapot information is stored on their servers. 2) There ARE official tcg tournaments with rewards and leaderboards for those tournaments. Please, check your info first.

[@darylewalker6862]

The teapot loop has one monetization; there’s one teapot item per patch available through the upper tier Battle Pass. Speaking of that, almost all monetization is connected to the main exploration/combat loop. The two exceptions are alternate outfits and the BP teapot item. And note the BP teapot item is in a bundle where everything else is connected to the combat loop.

[@LouisMorissette]

I just wish there was more coop , even allowing to exploring together without being 1 of the players world only

[@TheGwilwileth]

Playing for over 3 years, AR 60…. Not big on Abyss, nor do I play the TCG. I do spend on my favorite Characters and am happy to do so. Never buy resin to lvl Characters, just takes a bit longer to build them. I am in no rush… My quest list is now empty and all areas are at 100%. Exploration is my thing… I love exploring most of all. Still love this game 😊

[@pontoancora]

For me thats the main game. As long they keep making new areas with a lot of lore to find in the details, and making the world building better and better, I will keep playing. The only thing they really let down in my opinion is the co-op.

[@Lennis01]

Why buy resin when you can just buy the battlepass? That way you won't just get all the resources you need, but can also snag a useful four-star weapon in the process.

[@Lefty1x]

Agreed, adding more map and more lore is enough for me. Coming for PVP style games where lore lacks a lot. It’s my main thing tbh. Would love Co-op additions as me and my wife play together quite often

[@johnk8936]

I’ve played many gacha games before genshin impact, and it’s safe to say genshin burnout is much better than other gacha games that demands endless labor and meta purchases for pvp content every patch. It’s liberating to have time to do other than playing games all day just to keep up with strangers who don’t ever think about how your account goes on par with whom?

[@MCHR92]

I used to be an avid MMO player, and I've heard from people that Genshin demands time and feels like work... the blessing of not knowing what other games make their players do to chase a new high. Resetting your progress, either by creating a new class that is broken so you have to use it to remain competent, creating a "season" system, so your character is basically removed from regular play and you need a new one, etc. I remember Warframe developers saying that they don't mind being the second wife of players, which pretty much sums up what I think Hoyo tries to do with their games, you either live their ecosystem (not recommended since all of them are gachas...) or you just come back from time to time.

[@Oclur]

​@@MCHR92The main difference is that an MMO will burn you out because you have to play it a lot. Genshin will burn you out because there's nothing to do. I'd prefer the first case if I were to choose

[@MCHR92]

@@Oclur Burnout at the end of the day, it's unproductive to try to stop it, and it's not the game's fault, but the player's. And once it kicks in, it is the game's fault if they can't recapture the player's attention and keep them for another go. Genshin, being essentially a single player PVE game, has a MAJOR disadvantage in this regard, yet it remains popular.

[@OrangeBanana836]

When I started genshin, I thought "ah I'll probably get bored and drop this after two months like any other games I've played" so I pulled any characters I want bc I wont be around when they rerun and lo and behold I'm still here AR60 and still playing for almost 2 years. So yes basically the endgame for me is character collection 😊.

[@arifreggit]

Gotta catch them all. Well, I have them all except yoimiya, chiori and cyno. I've build every char as good as I can and now they are useless because there is no combat content, spiral abyss is the only one that they are useful. Don't waste your time and resource to collect all of character, most of the times they all only for your collection in your bench

[@Shane_A_M]

4:54 “Craft your favorite scenes” *shows Yae and Ei at a hot springs* 👁️👄👁️

[@ooochoa]

Sesbian lex

[@maevethefox5912]

It would be a lie to say I haven't done this.

[@skelebro9999]

That scene makes Genshin peak.

[@HotPepperLala]

yo he forgot about Fishing! Its my favorite end game mode

[@Otherface]

There is a reason her forgot about fishing. Is just THAT forgettable. At best you get some decent weapons that fits certain characters and... that's it. And is not even that fun to begin with. I know it may be a bad idea to say this here, but Sonic Frontiers did fishing much better: simple, fun in it's own way, doesn't consume much time, and the many rewards it gives makes it much more satisfying.

[@plvto1]

Not to mention everything.. Is so.. Slow.. Even the Traveler pulling back the rod so he can throw it back in is so painfully slow. ​@@Otherface

[@napatmongkonpattarasuk3291]

⁠@@plvto1so they made fishing feels like fishing?

[@snipergirl21]

Honestly, I like the fishing part too. It's so relaxing! I never thought I would enjoy it so much.

[@theskywalker8416]

its just repetitive

[@yamidanne]

The resin system and lack of gameplay at endgame actively discourage me from caring about new characters. Why should I care to wish or spend money on wishes if the game prevents me from building them and give me no content in which I can use what I've built.

[@dmandragon5667]

You're genshin content is amazing and all, but I must say, your stubble looks very good, it fits your face very well

[@Sam-bd1me]

I just play for the story quests and occasional fun events

[@glitchvariable5336]

I also feel like endgame will appear in another form in line with the true core of the game in my theory. To me genshin is an RPG first and primarily and a gacha secondarily and gacha is designed to enhance and refine other modes but the story and characters are the most refined aspect. In RPG the endgame doesn't show up until you at least become aware of the true enemies. So a true combat endgame will only show up after you find the true enemy identity and they reveal their hand in an RPG.

[@allianzsaint8606]

There is an endgame?

[@paulopontovaz]

There is absolutely no incentive for them to improve gameplay for us players. At least that's what I feel when playing Genshin. People pay for the characters and weapons regardless of whether the game's content is good or bad so it is what it is =/

[@angelduarte4202]

Wuthering waves is looking like the move

[@zippo718]

Only watched the intro so far, lemme guess the secret endgame is real life or just not spending time on the game (made for casuals). A lot of Chinese whales just treat gachas as trophy cases. All their joy comes from collecting characters and having to play the game is actually a negative. 90% of Chinese Genshin streamers make a living grinding other people's accounts (farming new char mats, clearing dailies, story quests, Abyss). That pretty much says it all.

[@franstar1730]

I don´t know if most people consider collecting characters as the endgame but Genshin is obviously trying to promote this with the new "endgame" that will incentivize players to have quantity rather than quality, at least according to leaks, it´s still not public how creative and entertaining this will be but it will probably be another attempt to improve their earnings rather than give players what they were asking, same happened with the chronicled banner.

[@sarahposting]

another aspect of character collection is that we love the characters we already have. I spend a lot of time farming for my existing characters so that they can be solid, and I am pulling for ppl like Kazuha who although I do like as a character I wouldnt get him if he wouldnt support my existing characters well. So even the characters I already have make up an endgame that gets me invested and to pull

[@kristinajonsson7497]

Maybe a difficult or "challenge mode" type of endgame could have some sort of reward that isn't primos so casuals won't be excluded but would still feel satisfying for those that engage with it

[@bonchachan6061]

Just like the rewards for the big results in events are a little of mora or weapon exp, serves more as an achievement check than a reward

[@baizhu]

this is the kind of thing i’ve had in mind for awhile things i would personally like for endgame content: 1) actual challenging modes that punish you if you don’t do correct rotations/reactions. genshin’s idea of hard is either making enemies have a million i-frames or buffing their hp, and it’s lame. you know how the mondstadt domains will extend your cooldowns or deplete your stamina? i want that kind of stuff 2) unique co-op raids of boss enemies, similar to that of albedo’s event with the whopperflower 3) something similar to the recent event. randomized characters with terrible builds and you have to understand team building mechanics to make something work 4) a special abyss floor that changes every so often. it is equivalent to floor 12 but gives you a condition (i.e. “can only use electro and pyro, can only use liyue characters” etc). it doesn’t even need to give rewards

[@hitagisenjougahara2651]

they would still complain like *we are left out because we cant clear it aswell*

[@Erisno1]

If it doesnt give primos no one would do it. Why would a company put resources into content only 1-3% of the playerbase would do? 95+% of genshin playerbase are casuals that play less than an hr a day. There's no point in this type of content if it wont add sales

[@khoisai9357]

No, there is abyss already. If you don't play abyss again after claiming rewards why do you think you will play other modes?

[@michaelneff5794]

Characters are NOT content & calling it endgame to build every unit is simply a player-created form of tedious work, all so you can play 90% of units for 3 days, realize they are mid, then bench them forever. Also the resources & mind-numbing grind it takes to build every unit is not a realistic or recommended goal for most players, especially with no true endgame modes to fully test said units. Like why would I want Arlecchino when I'd have to grind a dedicated set for her just so she can perform equal or worse than my well-built C1R1 HuTao?

[@robertoalexandermendezmore408]

men the event Laberynt Warriors should be permanent

[@Redahoge10]

This is the equivalent of Raising your star athlete to peak performance with the top of the line tech and nutrition only to replace their entire diet with pure laxatives in the final months of preparation before the sport event.

[@reified_paradox]

Yeah, I’m not a kid with summers off or a content creator that has time to play. I wanna play TCG more, but I literally don’t have time. All I ask is something extra to use my grinded artifacts on

[@----x-----]

Genshin is too scared to put content not meant for everyone, that's the issue. Can't have too much content or the CN kids can't play, can't add too many things to the teapot or mobile players can't enter some realms, can't add too many difficult floors to Abyss or under invested players can't clear,etc etc. A game for everyone is a game for no one.

[@proshinyscarab]

Hoyoverse's expectation for players in endgame: Play the game (optional)

[@empegirl9696]

What if a new player or player doesn't have a good build artifact yet on their character and only gets 30 to 33 stars, not 36, every abyss reset? and not FOMO for missing 36 stars for the primo reward?

[@Bigman85534]

I'm sorry but end game is not the characters if that's the case what you are saying is basically after a couple of minutes of playing and you unlock the wishing system that's when you reach end game is just cope that is not end game you guys will take anything that hoyovers gives you

[@tonyhoyx]

My 2vwishes for Genshin Impact. To let players use some of their old characters while fostering co op play: Implement an Endless Dungeon with a team score Leaderboard that resets every Patch. In the Endless Dungeon, we get randomly generated areas with endless waves of enemies with increasing difficulties. Can be played co-op with open matching. Scores are calculated by total enemies killed over time as a team. 4 players can choose their own 4 characters to play the dungeon (if that can be implemented). If not, then the 4 players can swap any into any characters anytime during the dungeon. Implement a mechanism whereby players will need to cycle through to other characters they have built. Dungeon ends and scores calculated when everyone dies or a single team member dies or everyone quits. Implement tiers in the leaderboard, and certain tiers will get a timelimited pet that is unique to the tier the players achieved on the leaderboard. Pet expires every patch during the leaderboard reset. Pet of certain top tiers have ability to help player pick up materials when equipped. To implement item sync between the game and interactive map. You can do the sync on every patch release instead of live sync to manage the bandwidth.

[@regalx1]

The real secret endgame is literally Genshin media content creation. Genshin isn't exactly unique in the fact that it's a money grubbing gacha game with sh*tty endgame content. But the problem is that for some reason, almost half a million meatwads like myself continue to click on videos complaining about this very topic in particular, while aspiring content creators farm us for clicks & views. Thank you for this video regardless.

[@AbominableDr.Phibes]

I do wish there was more co-op that makes players interact and strategize together. I remember having so much fun planning the fight against the Fellflower in Shadows Amidst Snowstorms Event, so we could all enjoy the full rewards. We also got to know each other a bit while doing it. As for resin usage, I wish there was a reward type called "Unlimited resin for x time" that the player can choose when to activate.

[@ephemeralnightmare1932]

This videos is kinda weird. I get what youre trying to say but the reason Genshin Endgame blows is cuz it doesnt exist. Only the Spiral Abyss is Endgame but its boring and short The open world, teacup and tcg, and fishing are all just side activities a lot of open world and rpgs have, like Skyrim, Finally Fantasy, The Witcher etc. But none of those are endgame stuff. Collecting character just comes with Gacha Game territory, but that also isn't endgame The Abyss tho, is Endgame. But the reason it sucks is because it's Artificial Difficulty. Artificial because it's only "hard" because of a time limit and inflated health bars with enemies designed to waste time. Time limit also limits team variety since all that matters is DPS. That means characters and teams that don't focus on Damage dont work in the Abyss. Combine that with the crappy rewards and the fact you only gotta complete it once every few weeks means that even if you enjoy that content. You only realistically get to play it once every few weeks with nothing to do in the meantime, at least when it comes to combat Genshin has enough enemies and reactions between them to come up with genuinely tough scenarios that could promote a more balanced approach to teams with a mix of both survivability, healing and damage. Instead we get the Spiral Abyss. They could at least slap some leaderboards that show the top clear times for every character. Maybe one day

[@zen_marti]

I totally agree to this. This is the sole reason why I still play the game. I have almost built all characters up to a point that they can be used in the Abyss. I only have Aloy left underbuilt, apart of course from the characters I don't have. I love the game's combat mechanics and how unique each character can be used in combat. Their combat personalities are also really appealing. More power to you, Jello.

[@xdragon2k]

The question on UGC is when will be available? Chances are it is scheduled for after the whole Genshin story are told. When there are no more updates for the Archon quests, it has to be replaced with something. What will happen after the whole story are told?

[@Stormtide]

Wanted to add to the map part: The other thing current exploration lacks that beginner exploration had: Actually useful and tangible unlockables. Unlocking more stamina, interesting and reusable things like the feather fan thing that increases flight speed, assorted items from the reward trees and Reputation levels like new gliders, even chests giving sigils to use in a shop to buy interesting upgrades and items, and any other new unlocks that give you new physical ability in the game that isn't just a number increasing on your Primogem count. While some of those things still exist in exploration to a degree (e.g. shops, regional reward trees, and Reputation), I feel like even those have been giving less and less useful/tangible things and has been becoming more obsolete in favour of the interesting and useful stuff being locked behind gacha or maybe minigames. An important thing in game exploration for me is rewarding the player with new abilities and upgrades and interesting items with future use instead of just currency and gimmick items. Though maybe I'm just delusional and only remember the novelty of starting out in the game, idk. Maybe it's all been the same all along.

[@KraszuPolis]

The issue is that lack of end game also means that there is nothing really to do with all those characters. Maybe they will be useful for UGC? But well we will have to wait, and see how that will look like.

[@yuugael4010]

I honestly like Genshin casual stride toward casualness, and honestly content with abyss powerlevel, like I don't want abyss to be harder and people who want it to be harder, actually play too much Genshin, I mean the fact that a lot of people still hasn't 36* it and there's monthly guide to clearing abyss floor contest the idea of it being easy, if anything Genshin needs more mode in tandem with abyss or make different challenge in each floor, it shouldn't just be making X amount of dmg on X amount of time, there's a lot to explore with how freeing Genshin movement is like parour challenges and such. For me personally I am kinda sad that they forgo the gameplay for weekly bosses more than the lack of endgame. Remember beating dvalinn in the aerial battle, it could be fun game mode (bullet hell type games) or make it we need to fight wave of wolves before fighting andrius, and in between got like Azdaha dmg sponge so it doesn't feel stale, I mean have hope when we were fighting the giant robot, but my biggest disappointment is when in fontaine archon quest SPOILER ALERT: We were introduced to this giant ship but it ended up not being used to hunt the Narwhal or the significance of it being just a cargo ship.

[@guilhemp1383]

I think this video is great because it tells people what to expect out of the game and I genuinely think new players should have the infos you give here in mind when they start playing. I've been playing Genshin almost non stop for the last 7 weeks (went from AR1 to 54, almost reached all 4 endgames) and I'm glad the game doesn't cater to hardcore players like me too much otherwise it would run into a different set of game design issues (the type you encounter on old MMOs). Honestly the main complaint I have is that the game doesn't feel very generous/rewarding. Another important point is that the real endgame is meant to be accessible to casual players and that's why events are so numerous while also being rewarding and accessible Good stuff as always, Jello ;)

[@spyrothetimelord]

I wonder if you can argue the BP having a namecard and furniture counts as a paywall for the teapot (and collectors). Like I started in 1.3 and I'm mad I convinced myself not to get the BP at that time because it's one of the most beautiful; I know I can't ever get the super old ones which is upsetting as a collector and completionist, but out of my hands. Likewise, there's still a form of pressure in the teapot because of furniture sets, which kind of delves into your points about them wanting us to care about the characters. They're only a few sentences but the characters have exclusive lines that require you to find/build certain pieces and put them together. I do find that teapot is actually pretty engaging still though, because the real issue becomes farming across the map (certain characters are required for efficiency) and working around the load limit/placement requirements. You are given large spaces but the teapot users create compact spaces that look nice but exist as a smaller space within the large sections of the map. So when you look from afar it's not as pretty lol. I do love that they have their own meta for it too though; people's creativity continues to be amazing tcg I'd kind of say is interesting only because there are exclusive cardbacks that I'd love... but I am too intimidated to participate in any of the online official stuff. I do wish that they had another app for it just because I play genshin on PlayStation and though it's been optimized, it's still not the most fun to play that way.

[@vladdyru]

I can assure you that there are pretty much zero builds that utilize BP furnishings, I practically never see them in people's builds. There are some inaccessible furnishings from older events, but even they are added to the Tubby shop from time to time. Teapot is pretty much non-affected by FOMO, you can see that for yourself by simply going over some codes on Hoyolab Replica Display or GenshinHomeworld.

[@princessochka3690]

Dailies, artifact farming, and abyss were intentianally made bad, because they don't want players to do them. Their ideal target audience are supercasuals, who log couple times per week, drop the game, return on big patch to spend 200 bucks on a new toy, drop the game again, repeat. Genshin pretty much became a money printing newbiesifter for donators, where after beating abyss for the first time you are either supposed to pay and get monetary attached, or get bored and leave without damaging the company reputation, in best scenario in their other games (which were artificially made more attractive than Genshin) for another sifting loop. Mihoyos spits in the face of old players pretty much prove this (adding useless qol instead of what players ask, etc), they want to get rid of veterans. They don't care about game at all, they care only about money. But the thing is - their plan doesn't work long term, because there is no point to pull characters if there is nowhere to use them. 2% of superwhales bring double the money amount of all other players combined together, and not caring of whales being entertained is the biggest mistake of Mihoyo. In the end, their policy ruined Genshins huge potential for the sake of profits and doomed the game to consistenly wither without improvements, when on a contrary - improving the game could have bringed them much more money and loyal players long term.

[@mmmmmmmmmmmmmm69]

Or they just want you to play HSR. Most players in Genshin switched to HSR, so it's not a loss to them. It's stil a win.

[@ceritaminit6696]

​@@mmmmmmmmmmmmmm69 HSR and Genshin doesn't take long to do their dailies, so no point to drop the game and play the other when you can play both of them.

[@mmmmmmmmmmmmmm69]

that's the point. from business perspective it's a huge win.

[@SeravySensei]

That's pretty much accurate and they'll have a rude awakening when competing games like Wuwa or Azur Promilia come out and suddenly 90% of the veteran players leave and they'll be like "wait, where did 50 million players go, why is there only 15m left? Why aren't they spending money, aren't new players supposed to spend more than veterans? What do you mean our reputation stops new players from spending?"

[@czarson6694]

@@SeravySensei you are strongly overestimating the number of players that will leave, million or 2 at best imo

[@potakettlefight]

I hope mihoyo manage to find a transition from this business model without simply asking players to pay in order to access the characters they pay with their time and/or money to build. They have great lore content, beautiful designed areas to explore, a fun elemental combat system and some temporary content that are worth the fun. And the advantage compared that we already know and enjoy the game. We wouldn't play for the primos if the model wasn't solely based on collecting /building new characters. Where can we find out how much is generated through the welkin and through the top ups? I'm curious whether a loyalty program would make sense - if the company keeps investing in the quality of those elements i mentioned before.

[@PolarPandy]

I totally agree with you, I'm a whale that spends a couple hundred EUR each month on Genshin, I never spent that much on a game before. I got hooked at the very beginning of Genshin (my Amber is from 2020 :))) because of the characters, I was so in love with them and the world in general that I ignored poor graphics. Also, the story was kinda confusing for me in the beginning, I started to understand and follow the story only in the middle of the Liyue main quest line. Now I think the story is what keeps me interested. And I keep buying character because of the lore

[@forgettableotaku]

co-op spiral abyss would be cool. i find that i really suck in coop mode, like scaramouche being so squishy and you often not getting to control the healing if you are playing your dps it means that coop has different challenges to playing solo. It'd also encourage you to get friends to join and also build (and maybe spend money). I guess the events can sometimes do this but they aren't difficult enough to force you to have to strategise like abyss. also it's create a coop meta, like zhongli is a great shielder but without cons he's not that useful in a coop setting

[@Mr_DE_0395]

I was expecting the real end game is the PvP in the genshin community, Maaan.

[@bloonbrawler9872]

Have fun with freeze teams and zhong li mains

[@WordsOfTheTeacher]

Genshin like most any game I've played might benefit from a certain game mode one of my favorite games used to have where basically it's an endless grind - a zone of varied enemies and bosses you cycle through running around killing, I admit it wouldn't fit as well here since you can't really level your characters by actually using them but loot drops would still make that worthwhile I guess. It's an idea that needs more work in this game than any other due to how the game works, but I'd be looking into it if I was a dev here

[@kayleighnorris2313]

This is such a well done video. I really enjoyed it!

[@zukodude487987]

The idea that we pull for characters is endgame is not that good. I pretty much have all the characters i need to beat every spiral abyss. I have no intention on pulling for more than C0 characters at this point with mostly freemos. If endgame was harder and better and more types then i would spend more to get the weapon or constellations which Mihoyo isn't getting cuz its very easy. I also dont understand how not having endgame is due to upset children, they dont even contribute financially cuz they have no money. I thought they mostly care about whales and they usually want to buy so they can make the game easier like in diablo, but if the game is already easy then who needs the urge to buy better stuff?

[@AMACHiiBiong]

DMC Bloody Place > Spiral Abyss

[@hericn]

I think a really easy "solution" to the endgame "problem" would be a world lvl 9. It could be unlocked after beating abyss floor 12 instead of reaching AR60, and would be totally optional. In this world lvl l, monster would be as hard hitting as the floor 12 ones, so exploration would be a challenge. But to compensate, they would have a small chance of dropping domain exclusive artifacts, talent materials and weapon materials related to the region where you would be. I think this would be enough (at least for some time) to keep hardcore players engaged, and would not affect casual players at all.

[@generalalatusfallingin]

More co-op and event centered end game content is the one type of end game I wish we had

[@SundayMatinee]

This is the best video addressing the "lack of endgame" in Genshin I've seen. Most people complaining about lack of end game just don't recognize that collecting waifus and husbandos IS the end game. And it is a legitimate end game, just like the "fashion" end game in many MMOs. Or the pay-to-win end game in competitive PVP gacha games. People "play" these games for enjoyment. People spend real money to get real satisfaction (yes, it's real - there's dopamine rushing in their heads). Just like people pay real money to buy physical objects in the real world for dopamine (Lamborghinis, Louis-Vuitton purses, etc). Or pay real money to go on "dream" vacations to Antarctica or space. At the end of the day, people pay for entertainment. Genshin's end game of waifu and husbando collecting is, as Jello says, paying for the game to run. Now, let's look at "Genshin Killers." Specifically, Wuthering Waves. It will have an end game of collecting waifus and husbandos, but apparently for harder combat. Can they succeed like Genshin? Yes, possibly. Punishing Gray Raven has harder combat than Genshin and is a character collector, but it succeeds because its playerbase wants harder combat, yet also wants to collect characters (and skins). So it is possible to have harder combat and still succeed. Will WuWa have the same success as Genshin? Namely, will it rake in billions? I don't think so. The number of "hard core" players is much, much smaller than the number of casual players. Genshin is successful BECAUSE it doesn't have punishing hard end game combat AND it doesn't have time consuming grind to build characters strong enough to complete all the regular content; you can literally play any characters you want and finish the Genshin stories. Sure, you need to grind a lot to build characters to beat Abyss, but most players don't care about Abyss. That's one thing that will be crucial to Wuthering Waves' success - can they make it friendly enough to a sufficient number of non-hardcore players to make a profit and continue producing more content? As Jello said, most players in China don't have time to play hours and hours every day. If WuWa requires players to grind hours and hours for echoes, it's going to lose a lot of potential long-term paying players. These same observations and arguments can be applied to Azur Promilia. Personally, I think AP will have more success than WuWa because it's a) more appealing (cute characters, cute pets, bright, colorful environment), b) combat seems more "button mash" friendly. I think AP will more closely follow Genshin's formula for being super casual friendly. If they do, this means they will have many, many more players potentially spending a LOT more money than WuWa. EDIT: RIP Azur Promilia husbando collectors.

[@Jayfeather4x]

I get the point that you are trying to make but end game content by itself is supposed to be the type of content in game that players can access without spending thats also replayable without loosing most of its engagement. Collecting characters for this reason cant be classified as end game content as its not free, it isnt replayable ( obtaining the sme character isnt really adding anything to the game) and most importantly past the initial dopamine rush it isnt engaging, sure its fun to play them for a bit and build them but past that there is nothing else to do with them. Fashion in MMOs is end game but not end game content and in most successful mmos to obtain that fashion you will have to clear dungeons or craft items by interacting with actual in game mechanics which in this scenario are the end game content itself, the fashion is rewards for participating in it, and yes obviously people can buy gear and cosmetics but no mmo game ever became majorly successful just because they had a pretty cash shop, the fundamentals need to be good first. 99% of PVP games are heavily replayable and sell the path to mastery experience which is why they kind of break the early game/end game loop and being able to spend money to get better is pretty much only acceptable in gacha games and is the reason why those gachas never lift off to be actual competitive games with end game content. Knowing all of this I find it a bit disingenuous to proclaim that genshin already has end game content and that its end game content is just spending money

[@JelloImpact]

@@Jayfeather4x it is free to get new characters. Not every character sure, but you get lots of currency for free

[@rifarira9160]

Good point, but star rail and h3r exist.

[@Lefty1x]

Great take. Good read

[@morgangreene5726]

I believe a game can do both. MMO’s like XIV cater to casual and hard core succesffully. And I believe it’s help Genshin be even more successful. Genshin loses the hardcore. If Genshin threw a little few bones every now and then to hard core like hsr they’d get the hardcore back andddd they’d probably spend more to get those constellations since they have a reason for those constellations

[@BestShifty]

One small correction: The teapod has monetization attached to it through the blueprints from the Gnostic Chorus premium pass.

[@LPZGaming03]

having a new endgame content (good or not) is still better than nothing.

[@I.disagree]

Yeah, difficulty isnt even the problem, just more variety would be nice

[@LPZGaming03]

@@I.disagree yep and hsr has done it better tbh. Rotation between MoC and PF every 2 weeks is better than only spiral abyss that reset every 2wks but only change every patch.

[@Taunt_1NG_U]

I wish this would be a April Fool's prank but that's why it stings soooo bad!

[@planetary-rendez-vous]

As soon as I finish all the world quests, main exploration and some of my curiosity for SQ I'm dropping the game until new content comes out. Which at the speed of which it comes, is going to be a long time. But I came back for the SQ in Fontaine. Collecting characters, clearing Spiral Abyss, farming is all a trap to get you to spend. Of course it's part of the enjoyment, but the only part that's not gated behind gacha is the story and exploration.

[@HawkieTalk]

Some people say that playing through something many times is not interesting, but I've played 1000+ reruns in Diablo 3 and it still interesting.

[@RareAngelz]

Genshin has really good end game if you're casual and fall into multiple categories here. You could also add achievements as an overlying category. As a one-and-done player, getting achievements from a variety of enjoyable game types is awesome.

[@AeonAdam]

Having stats carry over to TCG would be awful, but you're definitely right in the regard of there being zero rewards. It's a fine mode I have a team for, but the only meta purpose is for 2 games a week for BP progression. They really should give primogems or something for doing your games.

[@TheVermilliaFamily]

If I had a dollar for ever cut in this video I'd have 10,382 dollars

[@awakenedcrowl]

Genshin be like "Can't have bad endgame, if you have no endgame!"

[@riotangel4701]

Yea Mihoyoverse stated pretty clearly very early on the principal content are the characters. Just like *Dead by Daylight* the release of new characters bring along new play styles and new combos with other characters' abilities. That's what keeps me playing hours upon hours tinkering around to find new synergies. However i wouldn't go so far as to classify that as endgame since characters are _not_ a game mode. They are merely vehicles/avatars we use to engage/experience the endgame.

[@EdgarX007]

I want them to add a mode where you fight waves of monsters and after every 5th wave you get an artifact or some nice rewards you go until the entire teams dies and it can cost 10 resin for every 5 waves

[@yannischupin7787]

About the teapot rewards I do not agree fully, because of the character's set, that if get done and place the said character in it, you will gain promos (20 or 30). And this multiploed by the number of characters and the 2 sets each have ... it is small in comparison to the abyss but I feel like many miss on this.

[@phoenixlau]

That's more of a character collection thing (like ascension tickets), not necessarily "teapot" endame. The rewards are one-time x2 per character and the preset layouts are pretty ugly compared to what you can build yourself. Not to mention clashing against load limit. So generally what happens is every so often when the new presets come out, I will switch over to an empty realm and knock them out one by one for the rewards. Then inevitably I will revert to my existing realm, with my existing build that I like looking at, unable to add or change anything without deleting something else due to load.

[@nineo_osix5049]

Entering tournaments for tcg is the real end game.

[@THESocialJusticeWarrior]

Agree. And I play the same way. I would like to see a co-op dungeon mode where you need a healer, damager, rouge extra. Rewards could be random artifacts or artifact juice.

[@baizhu]

this would be awesome. i’d also love a cod zombies style challenge where waves of enemies spawn one after another and get harder and harder and you have to see how long you can last with your team

[@giuba98]

I would love it sm, but I think many people wouldn't like it... Once I asked on reddit "would you like this?" And I got downvoted into oblivion LMAO

[@pontoancora]

Exactly. Co-op dungeon is exactly what this game needs

[@amandaslough125]

​@@giuba98how recently was this? Because there was an event that genshin players hated back in the Inazuma period, but now the players would absolutely adore it: it was genshin version of Simulated Universe.

[@giuba98]

@@amandaslough125 it was only around two months ago, I have 49% upvote rate but 0 upvotes seen lmao, I was pretty confused because I wasn't suggesting to put there primos that might give anxiety to who can't do it, I was just saying that coop is very underused and it would be fun to have a coop content where characters can have new roles and be in a new "meta" (for example healers that need to be on field)

[@xYuki91x]

For me, endgame means having 4 Accounts which I play every day, spend minimal money (only Battlepass and Welkin Moon) and my goal is to get all characters, but not all on the same Account. Plus I loooove replaying the story and re-exploring all the beautiful regions. Yes my real progress on every account is very slow since I prioritize event and daily content over long-term content, but that's the thrill of the game for me 😊

[@Tjtellsthetruth]

This video just confirmed what I already knew thank you for the video

[@lyricjam39]

I never explore using the abyss clearing teams, it removes the challenge. (almost like playing in god mode). I mean overkilling everything with 1 or 2 "E" skills from my C1 Yelan + signature weapon only leads to repeating the same action over and over. Instead I use teams mostly relying in 4 star characters that are only good if you follow a decent rotation. Sometimes I make teams to roleplay while exploring making up stories of how they eneded up in there. In fact Mi Hoyo should implement some form of quests where you don't play as the traveler but instead some form of story mode exclusively of the other characters interacting between themselves in some adventure while the travelers is doing his "thing" somewhere else (and let you use them for the quest even if you don't have them).

[@funkmaaru]

I just want them to add in the ability to replay story quests!!!!!

[@thattimeigotreincarnatedas]

The true endgame is all the mint we picked up And the true pvp is content creators drama

[@studiesinflux1304]

If Genshin highlights an Abyss leaderboard like you propose at 2:30, I’ll quit immediately. If it’s buried in several layers of menus I may tolerate it, but if the game advertises “look how inadequate your wallet is!” in a splash screen or unavoidable popup, that’s my “quit moment”. I’ve just seen the slippery slope happen to another game I played: first the pay for mechanical advantage, then the leaderboard, then pay to skip story or to max level. Finally after the pay to skip, the content like story and quest becomes really bad because developer mission changes from providing entertainment to providing some bad experience that people want to boost through.

[@Baarogue]

I never really got into the Abyss because when I first tried it I was able to clear level 8 and then somewhere between levels 9-12 I got pwnt and discouraged. So for a long time I forgot it was even there. Fairly recently though I began paying attention to building my characters and building quality teams instead of just whoevertf I felt like playing and have started doing the Abyss. I tell my family, "I'm tryharding right now," and they know to leave me alone for a bit while I cuss in the living room. I can't 9-star level 12 yet but I honestly don't mind. I do one run at it and take what I get unless I identify a serious mistake I'm sure I can fix. I'm not the type of player that needs to win the Abyss, but doing as well as I am now has made me happy so I think I'll continue trying if only for the primos I raised my teapot's level to its max for its currency generation with random items and haven't done much in it since except switch my companions out to raise friendship and occasionally I've gotten ambitious and built sets for those tiny gifts the companions give you. I'm not a builder. It's there to get me the artifact xp potions and that fragile thingie I played the card game just long enough to determine that I don't care about it. I play the two matches asked for by the battle pass some weeks if I need those points, but otherwise I never look at it. I keep meaning to look up a braindead "killer deck" of some sort so I can breeze through those two matches but keep forgetting I am an explorer. Every map region except Chenyu Vale is at 100%, but I haven't found *every single* thing everywhere and I refuse to look up spoilers for my favorite part of the game so I still explore from time to time and I get a thrill when I see something I've missed. Discovering untracked, "secret" quests is the best and I love finding a unique puzzle. Even if one of them stumps me until I muse about it out loud to my daughter and she solves it instantly lol I do love collecting and building the characters I like but I didn't put a lot of effort into it until recently. I just finished building my power-wash team and am poised to get C1 on Neuvilette in a few days ^_^

[@ArakishiTokugawa]

The Abyss has kind of a too steep difficulty curve from 12-1 Like 11-1 easy, 11-2 easy, 11-3 somewhat hard ( 2/3 stars ) I would expect to be able to get 0 or 1 stars on 12-1 and do half of 12-2 tldr; there's only one challenging floor you need to build a lot for the teapot is done really wrong. There's lots of things (e.g. ROADS) that you would need to build decently

[@InanisNihil]

I think the issue is ppls idea of end game might be flawed especially now that hoyo publicly confirmed the big project to allow creator content to be made in genshin.. so essentially like a “creative mode” from fortnite.. 😂 basically depending on the TOOLS and how deep they let ppl go with the resources… players/Modders ALWAYS make better “end game” content then devs usually… and it all makes sense now when we look back at years of events of variety of different games they had and improved on here and there… if they actually are serious and are going to hire “players/Modders/programers” and give them the resources to go crazy… that’s the END GAME… and what ppl don’t realize is COOP is by far the biggest advantage genshin has over other gachas…ppl want genshin to be Starrail… it’s not.. turn based games naturally have a higher advantage for endgame stuff.. live action combat games are to complex as theirs a lot going on to have an as easy time for super complex end game mechanics… consider star rail simulated universe.. it be much easier to perfect that then say entire live action genshin coop raid dungeon AND implement bunch of mechanics like and synergies.. it takes more effort… I’m prepared for the worst butt hoping for the best.. that genshin all these years where planning for this creator project and the evidence is the constant little varying events which half where coop related… 100% genshin has no endgame period but if it has one .. this creator project will be it… BTW… some of these past event had “pvp” elements also some units like Jean actually can’t attack other coop units even kill thrm with her burst 💥 at times 😂 so it’s not impossible future content by creators where restrictions are removed to enable actual pvp ?! 🤔 again just speculation.. they literally CAN do it.. but will they based on tools/resources they give creators and how in-depth they let them go… I HOPE for it but I’m prepared for the worst.. 😂

[@Lennis01]

I think Jello's points are all valid. Most of the endgame content I regard as harmless diversions rather than something important to Genshin's core gameplay. The exception is the Abyss. The Abyss is what attracts players into making their characters stronger and see what they are truly capable of. The problem is that the Abyss hasn't really evolved much. You pick two teams out of your whole roster to challenge the most powerful enemies, and that's all there is. For young accounts and veteran accounts the challenge is the same. What Genshin needs is an endgame mode to challenge veteran accounts who have a whole lot of characters and high-end equipment. It's one thing to only being able to pick a character once between two teams. What if the same restriction applied to five teams, or ten, or even the game's current cap of 15 saved teams? Suddenly you have to put some very careful thought into your teammaking. Where do you put the Power Five? Where do you put Furina? Or Yelan? Or Neuvillette? How many of your teams can be made Abyss viable? Is there a leaderboard that can track how many teams a player can clear all the way through? Hoyoverse can set it up like an event where the teams are set up in advance and then the player can attempt the challenge over a period of several days at their leisure, the progress being saved between each session so that the player's time investment remains manageable. In terms of challenge this would be the ultimate endgame, and one that may make even Genshin's top content creators wither. Who would be the first to clear this monster abyss with 15 distinctive teams and no repeat characters? Would it be Jello? (He now has every character in the game.) Or would it be Zajef? Or Zy0x? Or would Sevy have something to say about that? Seeing these attempts on stream would be a highlight to everyone who follows Genshin.