Why George RR Martin Is Wrong - (A Defence Of Video Games)

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In today's video essay I analyse video games and the place they hold in the spectrum of art, identifying the specific things games can do that other mediums cannot.
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[@Rathdrgnknight]

I had an experience in skyrim like some of these examples: I was chasing a dragon in the hot springs and stumbled upon a Giant who wasn't aggressive. I was confused as to why when I realized he was standing over the corpse of a mammoth. He was mourning his mammoth. He would attack wolves who got near but didnt attack me. I stopped chasing the dragon and just stood with him for a while because I'd just lost a pet too and it hit me hard.

[@Lunaryse]

That's incredibly touching.

[@-Trauma.]

Me: *sneaks in and takes everything from the Mammoth's inventory* "Yes very touching...g'bye." *does a shit ton of Sonoma then sprints/jumps up nearby mountain*

[@loneszn5740]

Rathdrgnknight giants don’t attack the player unless they’re attacked first

[@HenriqueErzinger]

@@loneszn5740 they do if they have live mammoths nearby and you get too close. But the "mourning" part, as powerful as it may have been for the OP, is head-cannon only. He didn't attack because there was no mammoth to protect, and he attacked the wolves because they are aggressive by default, and Skyrim's engine responds to aggro.

[@ourpetsarecute3110]

Henrique Erzinger shush the giant has feelings

[@Baogio]

And now he's working on Elden Ring. Excellent character development

[@Grandmaster-Kush]

Anything to not have to finish his books lol

[@Doctor_Straing_Strange]

That's exactly what I thought: ''What is he talking about? Wasn't he gonna MAKE a VIDEOGAME?!''

[@Trollensky]

Elden Ring* im hyped for it

[@Doctor_Straing_Strange]

@@Trollensky me too

[@AidanCooperSolomon]

Elden Ring

[@hippotripo6145]

“It’s not art.” People in video game development who’s only job is to design artwork for a game: I guess I’m not needed here anymore...

[@V2ULTRAKill]

Having art and being art is not the same thing

[@mfriz5317]

Exactly, even games without a story still have 3D art in it.

[@neutch1991]

@@V2ULTRAKill give me one example where that's true

[@V2ULTRAKill]

@@neutch1991 unity asset flips Those arent art Those are a product They have art (textures/3d models) but with no artistic intent or merit are not As a whole Art

[@TheScaith]

@@V2ULTRAKill I would argue game assets created to be sold to developers are still art. The fact that they're made to save time and money rather than as a product for an audience to consume doesn't negate that. Most of them wouldn't be high art tho. Well, maybe some of them.

[@ondrejrolnik1631]

My mom after inviting her to try Detroit: Become Human, because she loves detective and emotional stories: "Only kids who don't know what to do with time sit and mash buttons. Never!" - proceeds to re-watch 3 different sitcoms for like a millionth time.

[@Ignisan_66]

"No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot" - Mark Twain

[@lvbboi9]

@@Ignisan_66 Winning an argument with a genius is hard, but winning against an idiot is impossible Dont remember who's quote it is but it fits

[@Coobster432]

Oh boi... She missed out on a great story just by being an idiot.

[@drallak442]

My mother loves horror movies but can't enjoy them unless she's with another. I cannot handle horror movies because of the combination of music and video and the lack of control terrifies me. A healthy medium for me are horror video games. I have enough control to be able to brave the horror. I offered her the game Until Dawn and was surprised when she tried it out.. It was a simple game mechanic for game beginners similar to Detroit: Become Human, and it had a very interesting story. She hadn't been able to enjoy a piece of horror media with someone in a long time. She loved it. She still brings it up and understands more about my hobbies from having played it and having me watch her play through. Recently, she asked me if there were more horror games like that coming out. I'm excited to have her over and play the multiplayer Medan series with her (even though they're not that good).

[@Coobster432]

@@drallak442 There's a game Little Hope from the same anthology and I've heard it's much closer to what Until Dawn is.

[@QwertySparrow]

The author of the Witcher series thought the same thing. Now he’s trying to sue CDProject Red for more money because the Witcher did better as a gaming medium.

[@lnsflare1]

And they tried hard to get him to accept a share of the royalties when they licensed the property from him, but he refused because he didn't have faith in the project as a video game.

[@CaulkMongler]

lnsflare1 wow I didn’t know this, it’s honestly amazing that authors essentially don’t have faith in their own works! I hope they got everything in writing. Must be a bit satisfying to say “we truly tried to give you a fair share but you laughed at it”

[@commonviewer2488]

@@CaulkMongler It had less to do with the man not being confident in his work, and more to do with the idea that there would be nothing of value in a video game.

[@Jlawelle6]

He won by the way and got a bigger sum of money because Poland has some laws that protect old men from being taken advantage of in deals

[@totallynuts7595]

Andrej Sapkowsky is an idiot.

[@thiccardboyle2952]

wait till he plays Lego Star Wars: The Complete Saga.

[@Ben-li9zb]

Its societal commentary is just so relevant in todays society

[@drackestalentorgen166]

A man of culture

[@yourdogfluffy4914]

🤣 It's funny cause it's true!

[@Obi-Wan_Kenobi]

I love this comment.

[@Ben-li9zb]

@@Obi-Wan_Kenobi I love you

[@coltonowens2742]

I'll give him this. Might heavily disagree with his opinion, but at least he isn't a condescending prick about it.

[@MetalShag]

I don't think he knew alot about games when he said that either, and when you're looking at games from an outsiders perspective and believe they are just get from level 1 to 2 I can see how he comes to that conclusion. If you don't know they are great for telling non linear stories i can understand.

[@connorp3764]

I agree with both of you, I can somewhat, kind of see where he is coming from, and glad that he wasn't being an ass about it. I think there is a problem when it comes to video games about video games becoming art, if that's a good way to describe it. There is a culture that prioritizes fun in video games, a concept I vehemently disagree with. Games do not have to be fun, that is a narrow window of what games can be, and the problem is that most games are within this window, not contributing to the scope of the industry I guess. I could go into much more detail, but all in all I think there is a part of the culture of video games and players that is sort of holding games back, and in that respect I can understand why some people think it hasn't become art yet.

[@Jtak-qu5hk]

@@connorp3764 I sort of agree here. While I think that purely fun games have a place in the world, I don't think making a game fun should mess with the message of a masterpiece such as the beginner's guide.

[@Extremezotako]

Yeah

[@AnimatedTerror]

@@MetalShag yeah. I’ve seen too many indie games that are super artsy and full of themselves to not consider it a viable art form. That being said, I can understand how someone with little experience in the medium might not even know about most of those games. If I walked up to someone who didn’t really do video games and asked them what Celeste was they’d probably have no idea. If I asked them if they knew what CoD was they’d probably have an idea.

[@harterism]

“This unbelievably effected me emotionally and made me cry.” *cuts to slicing enemies throats in multiplayer *

[@BryceEdwardBrown]

This is perfect. I love films more than anything but games ALREADY put you in another world better than any movie ever will.

[@lobaandrade7172]

Hey its the guy who’s Black Mirror analysis’s I watch

[@Greendalewitch]

People who say that video games arent art should play What Remains of Edith Finch.

[@BryceEdwardBrown]

@@lobaandrade7172 hey its me, thanks for watching!

[@megashark1013]

@@Greendalewitch Ah yes, the video game version of Gone Home.

[@sampowell1649]

Bryce Edward Brown I disagree with the any movie ever will but I believe that games and movies are definitely up to par

[@MoreImbaThanYou]

I hate the "art" argument. That word literally holds no meaning to me anymore. Since EVERYTHING created by humans can have artistic value, being "art" isn't anything to write home about. What really matters is the emotional impact, or the enjoyment of the experience you have with certain things. Either we have to use the word "art" alot more careful, or we need to come up with other parameters to validate things.

[@DioBrando-mr5xs]

The word art has been ruined to make people feel good.

[@Gray963]

Very well said!

[@DonVigaDeFierro]

For me, art is a direct product of LOVE. Anything you do with love, devotion and skill, is fucking art... be it a painting, a song, a movie, or even a fucking building or a machine... If we can feel the love put into it... it's fucking art. Modern "art" is a front for money laundering. A way for talentless hacks to feel good about their garbage, a refuge for special snowflakes to feel validated... It's the furthest thing from love.

[@Gyooz]

As an art student at University, pretty much every professor I've had says "art is whatever you think it is." I guess if George RR Martin doesn't think it is, than it isn't to him. But it is to many more people.

[@yuriychemezov]

As an artist myself I have to disput your argument. The art have been ruined exactly because of emotional impact. That’s how post modern art is "working". It enrages, mystify and puzzle. This one dimensional way of thinking ruined it to be precise . ‘O there is only one part of it that I care about” . Art is not just one thing. You don’t judge people by one characteristic. There is level of craftsmanship required, ideas explored, relevance and cultural history weight, artist’s capabilities and creation circumstances, media and originality. That’s exactly the things forgotten and dismissed. They are what separates art from garbage. You can’t summarize it’s values in one word.

[@aaronm9158]

As a videogame designer myself, who has had my entire life changed by videogames more than any painting, book, or movie ever could, thank you.

[@chrisrestivo2305]

In video games you are even more than an actor, you are literally THE character.

[@TheRealGuywithoutaMustache]

Video games are not "art" Clearly he's never played Minecraft

[@queensrychenm1562]

Or Dark Souls

[@oculus9561]

I dont know if this is a joke but if it is not youre complety right.

[@sage4rage]

Minecraft........ seriously

[@Dekead1930]

You damn right

[@BeachSalad]

@@sage4rage whether you like Minecraft or not, it is one of the prettiest games if you add shaders. It's simple and relaxing.

[@Archonus]

"Videogames are not art" just means "I don't understand videogames." Makes sense, he's just a writer. A great writer, but what would he know about videogames?

[@IrvingIV]

Depending on when the clip is from, it would seem he's come around! _Elden Ring_ will have him on board for writing.

[@mattw6399]

I didn't use to like books, because they were not visually appealing, nor interactable, although they sometimes can have a lot more detail than a game or a movie. Such as the details about internal though

[@IrvingIV]

@@mattw6399 Yeah, a lot of the fun of books is that describing what's happening in an interesting way is largely their entire point. The description then becomes a sort of image in the head of a reader, which is why movie adaptations of books are often disappointing, they take away the ability of the audience to imagine what the world and characters look like.

[@Divinemakyr]

@@peachyjam9440 Wrong. First rule of life: always kiss your homies goodnight. Second rule of life: don't die.

[@Lemme-sniff-ya]

He changed his mind.

[@thelexicon7294]

That Ebert quote will forever puzzle me, because he truly sounds like someone who has never listened to music or stepped foot in a museum before. "Different people can have a multitude of experiences with the same piece of media over time" seems to me like it would be one of the defining features of art rather than an argument against it. His comment that art is art because it leads you to an inevitable conclusion sounds like it's coming from a man who has only ever seen movies and engaged with no other art form in his life. Bizarre.

[@ea-do2pw]

I had a very similar experience with The Wolf Among Us. There was this characther (i dont remember the name) who was really being an asshole to us, i mean really. So at some point in the game i had an option to rip his arm of as a form of revenge for what he did so i picked the option. I watched the cutscene with joy as the main characther Bigby Wolf ripped his arm and teach him his lesson. Later in the game i discovered he was just flawed like rest of the characthers and seeing him carry on with his life without an arm just moved me. Yes he was a douchebag but he didn't deserve a punishment like that at all and i felt remorse for my desicion. I was 13 by the time i was playing the game and it showed me how acting with anger and desire for revenge only felt good for a short time and doesn't make you feel better long term. I learned one should not take action while affected by these powerful feelings. This was not an experience that can be conveyed this strong by any other art form.

[@ChromeDaimao]

This makes me think of the walking dead 2, when clementine (the girl I essentially raised in 1) staunchly refused to walk away when the one group brutally murders the guy who's been fucking everything up for everyone. She stayed and watched, hardened, with a mindset of "this is the world I live in, there's no point in hiding from it." and all I could think was "atta'girl." like a proud father who raised a strong young woman. A life experience I could never have in our world as I absolutely refuse to bring children into a place like the one we've created here. Admittedly, her situation isn't much better, but she was already there, so I did the best could for her.

[@secktuss9610]

holy shit

[@gorblintown8836]

I despise that my brain has been so poisoned that the first thing I saw in this comment were the words “Among Us”

[@ministryoftruth8499]

If video games are not art why is it then that video game makers employ so many artists?

[@colinobriant6895]

Guy Mor Still art. Don’t be reductive. Being dumb or “bad” in YOUR opinion does not fucking invalidate it.

[@sarahb3nyakar]

If sandwiches are not art why is it then that Subway employs so many artists?

[@ministryoftruth8499]

@@sarahb3nyakar Naming artists who contributed to the making of video games is easy because they are credited. Can you name just one of those many Subway artists you mention?

[@Nga_Babaye]

Martin isn't saying it isn't art, as in art. What Martin meant was that video games have yet leave that aesthetic and culturally stimulating advancement to humanity achievement that writing, theater, music, and movies have. However, he is still wrong because he lacks perspective into the culture. I doubt he knows what Blizzcon is.

[@Lornext]

After the older generations are gone and those who have grown up appreciating Games as art, it will finally be accepted as art in general.

[@jeffdid9117]

Books: story Songs: story, sounds Movies: story, sounds, visuals Games: story, sounds, visuals, interaction VR: coming when it's ready...

[@JoaoPedro-zh1zg]

Oral Poetry: Story + sounds + cool narration

[@onyxserenitatem7636]

That’s true but this is how anyone sees it TV - Good Vido gam - Bad bad Never understood this sorta stuff.

[@CCuppy29]

Hotel: Trivago

[@mrblack4774]

Comics- story, visual (and music if you want to listen)

[@legrandliseurtri7495]

Books: story, being in the mind of someone. A little thing that makes book unique I think.

[@kirikakirikakirika]

Every time I hear a director or writer say video games aren't art, all it does is convince me that they're jealous or salty that so many people love them.

[@j.f.fisher5318]

The near extinction of action and martial arts movies since the early 90s is probably because games are so much better at telling those stories.

[@professorbaxtercarelessdre1075]

maybe, at least in some cases, i also think its just their perspective, limited though it may be. people don't usually appreciate things they themselves haven't experience. i doubt all those politicians constantly trying to ban the GTA franchise for example have ever even played it. not defending everything it does myself, but i think one should at least sample something before forming an opinion or judgement on it

[@sweney7103]

they probably just don't play games

[@professorbaxtercarelessdre1075]

@@sweney7103 sadly true, though i think any artist should expose themselves to all kinds for appreciation and inspiration, right?

[@kirikakirikakirika]

@@sweney7103 They probably don't, but that's not an excuse for hating on an entire medium.

[@felixpotter6420]

“not in my life time”. mate, they were art before you even finished “A dance of dragons”.

[@frooskys22]

Yes I hate when these old men think that they know everything, I've read all his books and there are hundreds of games that exceed his books by far and away. But George rr martin has only played the mine finder so he lacks completely of judgement

[@manwithnoname8229]

@@frooskys22 mind listing the 'hundred of games' that exceeds his books?

[@dcworld4349]

@@frooskys22 I think he was put on the spot of a topiche knew next to nothing about and you know what that is okay and I also partially blame the interviewer. My parents very early on realized that it was art because I would tell them stories about the plot, show them when a game took the next graphical steps etc. But my grand parents only notion of video games were pong and mario, and he comes from that generation. I am not an interviewer by any means but instead of asking such a yes or no answer. I would in 2014 say something like: "I don't know if you are aware or not but with games like last of us and Bioshock released back to back last year there have been recent talks about more games needing to provide more grounded, character driven stories even in fantasy or sci fi settings. Rather than what up to now have been more, with the occasional exceptions, popcorn blockbusters affairs in terms of story telling. Anything you would consider, being able to tell more and larger stories at once without needing to think about the limits of the run time of a tv season. You could even do a direct adaptation without having to cut any material from your books, if you so desired". That way you are both, educating and informing him about how much games have changed, and giving him something real to talk about.

[@agilemind6241]

@@manwithnoname8229 Depends what we mean by "exceeds" his books. In terms of revealing truths about the human condition I'd offer up: Bioshock, Witcher 3, Undertale, Dragon Age 2, SW KOTOR 1&2, Last of Us, Papers Please.

[@johnmartintaylor9674]

Wow, you are repressed. You honestly believe any of those games exceed GOT books in that intention? The Last of us is the only of the pack that potentially rivals GOT in terms of artistic ambition (which is mainly because is a well written film with brief/pointless interactive sections). I’m afraid dear that your artistic sensibilities have been warped and distorted through a combo of laziness and mindless pursuit of instant gratification. My advice: grow up (And you guessed it!! -I’m 17)

[@TheNimdude]

Finally someone giving the Bf1 prologue the love it deserves. Some Saving Private Ryan shit right there. A full game made like this would be insane.

[@nabrzhunter]

Speaking of neglected games...COD WWII had a moment like this last year. Storming a tower I found a young German bleeding out - begging for help, and despite the headache that is going back to the last checkpoint, I went back twice in hopes of finding a way of saving him, but you can't. Later in the same mission, if you aren't too trigger happy, you will be given the opportunity to force the snipers at the top of the same tower to surrender at gunpoint. I was profoundly grateful. After this video, though, I have to get BF1 now.

[@jabyalex7868]

I just thought it was shit and not powerful I understand the power of it but I prefer the escapism over the "powerful" aspects even if it's the events of a real time

[@abudgie6909]

dark matter guess people don’t buy Battlefield games for good storytelling.

[@megashark1013]

@@jabyalex7868 No disrespect, but I find looking at games like that pretty shallow and unappreciative.

[@jabyalex7868]

@@megashark1013 well its a form of media I appreciate it I just don't care for its power I care for the entertainment it brings me its job isn't to make me feel moved its to entertain me as shallow as it is most would agree

[@renojackson8827]

That interview was from 2014 and apparently his view has changed i dont know how much but... He is building Elden Ring's world after all so.

[@DioBrando-mr5xs]

Doesn't mean he views it as art

[@harpe9415]

@@DioBrando-mr5xs I think he does view them as at least closer to art. If he didn't see the story potential in Miyazakis proposal then he never would have worked with Fromsoft to make the game. Miyazaki also confirmed that George wrote the entire mythos behind the game, so yeah I think his opinions have changed at least a bit.

[@ultron-5600]

RenoJackson I’m pretty sure he changed his mind in 2015 when the Witcher 3 was released

[@Coobster432]

The story of the Bloody Baron in Witcher 3 is one of the most heart wrenching in video games and the fact that there are different outcomes makes it all the better. I had the worst one and let's say I run out of tissues really quickly because of that.

[@paulbutler8677]

every game is art even if its a failure of a game, there was a vision. Creation is art.

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

They clearly mean “high art”.

[@theentirepopulationofsyria]

At 9:00, you say "The Choice". The track that's playing in the background is from The Last of Us. It's called "The Choice." Nice.

[@TheCloserLook]

Completely unintentional but thanks :) Wait I mean uhh.... totally intended mate, I'm just that good.

[@angeloffish]

Nice 😎.

[@MsZsc]

Nice

[@idiot1684]

He thinks video games aren’t art because he never read any of the item descriptions in dark souls

[@efxnews4776]

Dark Souls is pure art, the setting, the gameplay...

[@ergicgaming1618]

Lmao I think he read some. hes working with the creators of Darksouls now to create elden ring

[@ryanator7935]

Ergic Gaming It’s called a joke.

[@holyassasin0544]

Or played little nightmares, bound, etc, more or less any very artistic game.

[@Jacob-zk1jy]

LETS FUCKING GO BOIS ELDEN RING IS HERE

[@michaelheeks5279]

This video reminds me of when I first played Bioshock Infinite and I had just arrived in Columbia. When I first stepped into the chapel and heard "will the circle be unbroken?" I felt like I had been emotionally lifted to a point I never thought possible. This was an amazing experience, which I wish I could relive for the first time again.

[@brymetheous2387]

yeah I think about that moment a lot

[@drallak442]

CRIMINALLY UNDERRATED. Horizon Zero Dawn brought me back into a childlike wonder. Exploring never got boring. You savored learning about each area and how it developed and what it once was. A lush jungle was once a desert. A stray tank buried in the mud. A piece of ancient architecture that is almost recognizable but out of place. It's so beautiful. I never experienced that prayer in the city.

[@null4107]

Banana taped to a wall ART Red dead redemption, last of us Nah fam

[@mutanttugboat9266]

I'd be an Angry Beehive too if I thought about that long enough. Just gonna have to patrol these ports looking for modern artists to toot my horn at.

[@brunoactis1104]

Oh boy Last of Us is not a videogame that can be considered art, at all. It just has a pretty good story, it would be better like a movie.

[@primordial6966]

Bruno Torres well and did you know that uhm Films and Storytelling in general are art aswell?

[@brunoactis1104]

@@primordial6966 Tell me, a novel changing pages every 2 minutes, recorded and selled like a movie will be art as a movie? Videogames should tell what they want to tell trough the gamplay, as every art does on it's own way.

[@akirakurusu4366]

@@brunoactis1104 No, not only the story is great, but the gameplay and combat are amazing, the graphics are insane and the soundtrack is legendary

[@vladdythebear5872]

"Video games aren't art" Rockstar employees who spent years creating the Red Dead 2 landscape: ......

[@55bucky94]

VladdyTheBear not even just the landscape even the promotional art alone the character design the writing and the programming

[@drebodollaz3504]

Baka Life1 programming is closer to being math than art. I agree with everything else tho

[@JohnSmith-bf8kv]

And horse balls

[@TheNabOwnzz]

So what? There's plenty of crap out there that people have worked long on. That doesn't make it art.

[@vladdythebear5872]

TheNabOwnzz You're really calling Rdr2 'crap' and not art? 😂 Nope, completely wrong

[@hanzflackshnack1158]

I was a child my dad had died due to medical issues and I was playing Ninja Gaiden on NES. The intro where Ryu's father leaves to fight a rival ninja and the montage of him falling in battle while Ryu read the note... To anyone else it's a cheesy pixel animation with an 8 bit MIDI soundtrack but to me in that moment it was heartbreaking.

[@JanbluTheDerg]

One of my most memorable moments in a video game was in Half-Life 2, in the opening. I overheard an argument between one of the people who was just in the carriage with me, and a guard. Turns out, our luggage was being confiscated. This made me angry, so I picked up one of the discarded hand cases and carried it right past the guards, staring at them defiantly. I then decided to keep that same case with me through the entire level, right up until I lost it when I threw it at a drone in anger, and it fell off the side of a building. Film will *never* be able to replicate the devastation I personally felt when I lost my case. The developers didn't even intend for this behaviour to happen, I just reacted in my own way to the worldbuilding going on around me and the game gave me the space to do so. A fantastic example of how games can enhance storytelling is with the Middle Earth games (Shadow of Mordor and Shadow of War). Here, the game reacts to what's going on. An orc that kills you gets promoted to a captain. Captains remember you, they have unique personalities, they remember their previous encounters with you. It creates a very personal, very dynamic relationship between you and your enemies. For instance, an orc archer managed to kill me. He gave himself the title of "Tarq Killer". He would then repeatedly show up and taunt me, tell me how great he is. And then I killed him, but before he died he tried to deny his death, stating that he's supposed to be the "Tarq Killer" not the other way around. What really made an impression on me was when he came back to life, taunting me once more that he came back, and reaffirming his title as "Tarq Killer". I lost track of how many times after that I killed him, but he just kept coming back. He was my rival, a showcase of my early failures. I then tried to recruit him, but turns out he's also super stubborn and strong willed. My foil, my arch nemesis... So I then drove him insane, broke him, made him a shadow of his former self. This brought me immense satisfaction, and he came back in one final showdown before getting killed... for good perhaps, maybe, idk. But all that was a small story within the game, one that was very personal, and one that film just wouldn't be able to pull off in the same way.

[@DelNiceBeto]

"film can't have internal monologue" anime: hold my sake

[@pitchblackcap1218]

*"This man...he is a man of culture!"*

[@horminmangfi5653]

Lol

[@alexoropeza2320]

doesint work in live action

[@heinzmustermann8416]

Exactly what I thought😂

[@hieroprotoganist3440]

Spiderman original trilogy says hi.

[@alexanderseibel3845]

if one single picture is art, then 60 fps are...super art

[@eeshanbhagwat7257]

You should try 144 fps.

[@LTinator]

@@eeshanbhagwat7257 _sublime_

[@blehhhh_]

Sorry to tell you that this is one of the most brainless conclusions possible.

[@alexanderseibel3845]

@@blehhhh_ not true, my friend

[@grabariludmila5209]

@@blehhhh_ you are the no brain

[@oricalu448]

The only time I have cried at a game was during undertale of all games. During my first playthrough, I played the ruins like a regular RPG, and then when it got to the Toriel fight, while trying to spare her, I accidentally killed her. That hit me hard enough that I played the rest of the game without killing anything. That was fine, until I got to the "date" with sans. He talked about the woman on the other side of the door (toriel) and how he taught her about knock knock jokes, and later they started exchanging jokes. He then explained how she had stopped responding to him, and he was worried that she was ignoring him, and was concerned how she was doing. That moment was the first to make me cry. The fact that my mistake had such an impact on the other characters really got to me.

[@baalbub.3772]

"If you've played this game before, you would know exactly what I mean" Me: Okay...? "Battlefield 1" Me: *ALREADY CRYING*

[@bacht4799]

It is with video games as it is with cartoons.. they deserve more respect and shouldn’t be look down on.. !

[@zuko9085]

Avatar the last airbender being my "exhibit A". By the end of season three my entire family was eager to watch. Children to college students to my adult parents all watched together every week.

[@we4803]

yes

[@littleoreo7717]

That really hit me home and I completely AGREED! :')

[@usuallyhungry7552]

Cartoons are quite literally art.

[@THEPELADOMASTER]

@@zuko9085 Samurai Jack being my exhibit B.

[@Silburific]

Imagine being a writer, whose chosen medium requires the audience to do all the work in visualizing your work, and saying a medium needs to be fully immersive before it can be considered art.

[@CR-ej6nl]

Are you suggesting that video games are more immersive than books? If so you should go and read a book.

[@Silburific]

@@CR-ej6nl ...how did you get that from my comment? Seriously, I need to know. *Nowhere* did I suggest that one is more immersive than the other, although yes, I have played some games that were more immersive than some books. I was pointing out the arrogance of someone claiming that what is essentially a movie isn't immersive and thus, isn't art. He sounds like someone who played Pac-Man once and thinks that video games stopped there (which is weird, since there are three GoT games and he actually wrote for one of them). Because seeing characters interact with their surroundings, hearing the emotion in their voices, and spending upwards of 40 hours exploring intriguing and often times beautiful worlds just can't draw people into a work, apparently.

[@CR-ej6nl]

@@Silburific I guess it's the way you worded it. It sounds like that's what you were saying. Your comment reads as though you're saying books aren't immersive and implying that video games are. You're right though I've misunderstood you. And I agree that video games are immersive as well.

[@Silburific]

@@CR-ej6nl Yeah, now that you mention it, I can see it being construed that way. The lack of inflection in written comments can easily push this into " gaems gud, books dum" kind of knee-jerk reaction. It's all good, I understand entirely.

[@timtim9o5]

@@CR-ej6nl video games are easily more immersive than books. sincerely an avid reader

[@erickr199]

On his defence, Martin belongs to a different generation, where videogames where targeted towards Kids and were not considered as a "serious" art form by adults or people unfamiliar with them. That is the reason why many people from his generation (Baby Boomers, Generation-x) dont take videogames seriously. You can see on more recent interviews how his opinion has changed after working with Miyazaki on Elden Ring.

[@steel2572]

The definition of art according to google is: "the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power." Based off that definition its nearly impossible to not consider video games art. I just dont think GRRM was aware at the time of how high quality some games really are.

[@wolven122]

When George RR Martin is literally writing the mythos of the new Fromsoftware game lmao

[@fudwgemar]

This video and that George RR interview was before they announced the game.

[@barretwallace3349]

The interview was made before the announcement, the video was after. But still worth making the video

[@robrulez4532]

@@One.Zero.One101 Whatever you say, kiddo.

[@djlaithie2525]

@@One.Zero.One101 people who use the word butthurt are actually idiots

[@ravendeafening192]

I’m sure he did say that it can be an art

[@TheDanielk4]

I hate it, when people say things like "Death Stranding is finally a game you could consider to be Art" because I'd say videogames have been art since the original God of War for PS2.

[@saisameer8771]

Video games have been art since the nes days. They are just a different kind. They don't need a story to be considered art. For example, a good boss fight can he considered art in it's own right. So many people don't realise how hard it is to make a boss fight that is challenging but enjoyable at the same time and is unique enough to not feel derivative or boring.

[@alexzanderroberts995]

@@saisameer8771 that sounds like Monster Hunter.

[@Pazuzu4All]

I don't know if I'd say GoW1 was the first example of art in video games, but I would say it's one of the best examples of its time. Being modeled after real Greek tragedies with a flawed protagonist seeking redemption for his unforgivable crimes really sold it for me.

[@ariezon]

Kind of agree, but I think ps3 id the polished form of it

[@m.r.1514]

Nah, Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver is a PSX game and I definitely would consider it art.

[@XelNaga89]

I had similar feeling while playing Spec Ops: The Line. Very powerful moment that gets stuck with you and you look at things differently.

[@dickheadhex418]

Spec ops the line is very underrated

[@dmr11235]

“I don’t think it’s gonna happen in my lifetime” *releases Elden Ring* “Huh, proved myself wrong”

[@kylevidrine6480]

Hey, at least he didn’t say that video games cause violence

[@magnaesca165]

come on, he didn't say it, but it was in his eyes

[@reum411]

@@magnaesca165 i mean if thats true than at least he didnt offended more people by saying that

[@magnaesca165]

@@reum411 true that

[@ravendeafening192]

@@magnaesca165 but his books are pretty violent so why would he say that

[@magnaesca165]

@@ravendeafening192 sir, books don't kill people, people who use books as murder weapon kill people.

[@lordodysseus]

As, a gamer, a reader, a movie lover, and a music lover this is the one of the times I have disagreed with George RR Martin. Edit: Though I do think Ready Player One had the right idea. VR that you can touch. I think it'll be an art form of its own.

[@user-ld4qt6ci7b]

It would probably be closer to the Matrix than anything. VR that immerses you fully. But we are nowhere near close to that.

[@bainbonic]

I do respect Martin for saying his piece about video games with a respectful tone, but I do disagree with him. But that's perfectly fine.

[@Bughunt89]

To be able to personally decide in small ways how a story plays out is absolutely phenomenal, an artform first practiced by authors of choose your own adventure books where you make different choices that lead you to different endings.

[@towersthetoad2161]

anything that is appreciated is art books are art painted art is art film is art hentai is art games are art

[@hahaimout1693]

Especially hentai

[@pougetguillaume4632]

Hentai is mentionned but not anime? I see you are an intellectual of the highest caliber ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[@VentStrike]

I respect you.

[@phelps6205]

@@pougetguillaume4632 anime probably falls into the film category.

[@pougetguillaume4632]

@@phelps6205 nice try but no, it's no fun that way YOU'RE NOT RUINING OUR FUN

[@deadlypiecrab1391]

that interview is from 2014 for all the people confused why he is working on a game

[@randomduck8679]

Deadly PiEcrab tbf that isn’t contradictory

[@deadlypiecrab1391]

@@randomduck8679 yeah but I think he has probably changed how he feels about games being art in 4/5 years

[@RaySquirrel]

When George RR Martin says he doesn’t think it is going to happen in his lifetime, remember, George RR Martin is REALLY old.

[@erois6190]

Sweats in Winds of Winter

[@sernoddicusthegallant6986]

Laughs while crying in Robert Jordan

[@21swords76]

it's already happened tho. videogames have been art since it's inception. he's never played video games. he's just a fat old man who doesn't even know how to turn on his TV.

[@THEPELADOMASTER]

He's really old. And really fat.

[@user-qn4xu4tq7n]

@@21swords76 dam you salty, well anyways you're factually incorrect, he has played video games (big fan of the atari back in his youth). And he hasn't had the time to play any new games bc of his job (80's to current). He doesn't berate people for thinking they're art so don't be so salty about it

[@mitchrolla2619]

I played through the witcher 3 and all the decisions I made were purely based on my own instinct, NOT what I thought Geralt would do. The Baron questline and Ciri's ending depressed me so much after I finished because I knew that MY decisions were responsible for it. I've never had an experience close to that through any other type of media. It left me feeling empty for a few weeks

[@DSkulle1]

must play mass effect trilogy. its as good if not better than the witcher 3 when it comes to choices and consequences.

[@jessequaedvlieg9072]

Videogames are like the ultimate art form. It’s like music, movies, books and paintings in one

[@cheekmuncher]

Indeed

[@SpannerManna]

Exactly Just the name "video game" sounds rtarded

[@sm3ghe4d22]

@@SpannerManna Yah I think its the "Game" part that colors ppls perception of it a lot and makes it hard for certain types of ppl to take it seriously.

[@willuigi64]

@@sm3ghe4d22but games are propelled by player interactivity through gameplay.

[@mike.6092]

Unpopular opinion: all things have a potential to be art, and most things already are

[@owenwilkinson3949]

Ikr!? If you really think about it, everything is art to many different people.

[@randomsht9836]

4 me personally as a man of culture after my 2nd favourite medium is anime & I consider it art & my 4th favourite medium which I & many others consider art is stand up comedy & Of course my 1 is video games if any1 gives a fuck so yeah !?!

[@randomsht9836]

So basically what I was trying 2say is anything can B art depending on the person 4me personally THE ULTIM8 4M OF ART IS VIDEO GAMES

[@Ravi9A]

I don't think that's unpopular.

[@inspektical2393]

My wallet is art because it portrays the feeling of emptiness and solitude when you look at it.

[@Zartanyus]

"This moment was one of those rare moments in fiction that helped me understand an aspect of humanity that I had never been able to imagine before." This right here is why I love video games. Well put, man.

[@jackwolfe8206]

I am so glad that someone discussed the BF1 crying soldier - it remains the moment that most impacted me in any game. Really an amazing detail, and I’m glad it got the attention it deserved here.

[@_skeptile_]

That Ebert quote really exposes one of the reasons these people are so dismissive of games: they're annoyed by how the potential of games exposes the limitations of their own creations.

[@vkurtisw]

Im suprised you didn't talk about how how you can fail a game and die. They are the only art that is challenging in that way. You have to physical or intellectually improve to make it through the whole piece. That's why a scary movie is a much different experience than a really scary game. Also dark souls is a good example of a game where a huge part of the experience is YOU failing then getting better.

[@Valsorayu]

No movie can *ever* convey the feeling of defeating Gwyn for the first time. This literal God killed by your *own* effort.

[@dragunov815]

That's a fantastic point.

[@tinchosabala]

I read "falling", and when you mentioned Dark Souls I started laughing.

[@poweroffriendship2.0]

_VIDEO GAMES MAKES YOU VIOLENT..._ *Me, after playing Space Invaders:* Come on, boys! Let's raid Area 51!!!

[@RonaldMcPaul]

According to video games it's actually Area 69.

[@VikingTeddy]

Well. Shadow of Mordor often does make me want to go berserk...

[@Liberator130]

VIDEO GAMES MAKE YOU VIOLENT Me: Plays "Rip and Tear" at maximum volume while playing Stardew Valley

[@apotato6278]

Shit, let's hope for all the aliens' sake that nobody played XCOM

[@Gemnist98]

Ronald McPaul You sure that ain’t from porn, mate?

[@PK_Scratch]

The best and simplest way I can think of explaining games as art is that. A game is a theatre play that you view while simultaneously being an actor within the play. Or rephrasing it: You, the player, are both an actor and spectator, acting in a play that you are discovering.

[@fencserx9423]

George is talking about something he doesn’t understand because he probably doesn’t play many narrative video games

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

The question is, do video games NEED to have a narrative, or an elaborate one, to even be considered as high art?

[@PythonPlusPlus]

George R R Martin: Games are not art yet Elden Ring: Hold my arms

[@sunpraiser3188]

Fromsoft: allow us to introduce ourselves

[@ninjahayden34]

I do kinda agree with that though, gaming as a medium hasnt existed long enough and evolved long enough to be considered a bigger art form like books and movies. I'd say that while many games are becoming art and especially as of recent, it won't be considered a *staple* art form for at least 10-15 more years.

[@professorpii4543]

@@ninjahayden34 So only because they arent as big as other art forms they arent art? Van gogh was laughed at when he said that he was a artist, now he is considered one of the greatest artists of all time. Only because something is new does not make it not art.

[@MrTigracho]

@@sunpraiser3188 man, From Soft games series of Dark Souls are a piece of arts in so many levels.

[@punctuationman334]

Hayden Armstrong it’s rapidly approaching those genres and general and critical popularity as a art form, and that doesn’t mean it isn’t art even if it you see it as lesser art.

[@TheAlphaLegionnaire]

I guess George hasn’t played Bloodborne. That whole game is a nonstop work of art.

[@leftovernoise]

Martin is currently working on a game with From Software... Same director and team that created bloodborne.

[@TheAlphaLegionnaire]

Jordan Marks I just called Bloodborne a work of art. Believe me... I know about Elden Ring.

[@leftovernoise]

@@TheAlphaLegionnaire It definitely is a work of art! I'm super stoked for elden ring as well!

[@megashark1013]

Bloodborne. Fucking Bloodborne! My favourite god damn game on this planet. If it isn't art, nothing is. Super stoked for Elden Ring too.

[@Revealingstorm.]

@@TheAlphaLegionnaire well if you know he's working with them then why ponder that question lol

[@alexlol2678]

The Intro to Battlefield 1 profoundly affected me. The first time I played I was reduced to tears as I ruthlessly did what I was supposed to, kill man after man; until the tank scene. I just couldn’t bring myself to take the life of these poor young men from behind inches of steel while they hopelessly charge under threat of execution for desertion. It was that moment, watching those soldiers in different colored uniform drop their weapons and continue their hopeless advance, that the idea of us all being real people with our own lives and families truly hit home. I could no longer bring myself to take these men’s lives. Right then, when I can finally begin to comprehend what I was experiencing; I watched as the tank beside me erupted into a great fireball and I knew all 4 of those men inside were gone in an instant. I fired again.

[@rodri_merli27]

There are two moments in video game that got to me more than most films anywhere in time. Arthur's death in RDR2 and The Wolven Storm moment in TW3. The first one was the direct result of my own choices during the game, and the second one made me choose Yennefer at the end of the game.

[@MT-zb7eg]

Hearing the music from Mass Effect 1 really brings me back. Thank you.

[@falconcourt8740]

another great example the stanley parable: doesnt have interesting visuals or a story but HOW can it not be called art some form of art

[@WhatIsMyPorpoise]

U rite

[@REvoLverj98]

*Art:* The expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power. So apparently "The Witness" isn't considered art?

[@dereklewis4321]

When Link steps out into the world for the first time in Breath of the Wild, that is pure art my dude.

[@Elidarification]

This is a fantastic essay and should be seen by as many people as possible. As a game developer myself I say - thank you.

[@TheCloserLook]

Thanks Lev, I'm glad you liked it :)

[@braxtongeorge8038]

What games have you worked on?

[@Elidarification]

@@braxtongeorge8038 www.linkedin.com/in/lev-danilov-6b7034140/

[@LoneGuitar]

Play Spec Ops: The Line It takes the BF1 prologue to the next level

[@Betito1171]

It takes the BF1 prologue and reverses it. Or rather BF1 reverses it.

[@humble_lion357]

My best friend told me about it. Damn good game, in terms of emotion, and just a raw experience.

[@Deathlygunn]

Spec Ops: The Line is definitely one of the most under appreciated games of all time, so many people just let disregarded it as "just another cover shooter" but once you get a few missions into the game you begin to realise that it's actually a dissection of War games, and the generic look and feel of the game is all an integral part of getting the point across.

[@Elijah_murphdog]

I was told it was a very emotional experience and heard people hyping it like this, but when I played it I just didn't feel that.

[@scorniro8182]

I as a german have to say that it's one of the few good german games.

[@donofab2358]

Thus has probably been mentioned before, but I'd also like to add the sequences of riding from point A to point B in Red Dead Redemption 2. Some people might find it tedious, but when I go into cinematic view and just sit back and watch the lone cowboy riding through the beautiful landscape in solemn silence, it's so simple of a sequence, but I love it. There is a fast travel feature, but I actually never use it because of the feeling I get watching the riding sequence

[@essixthefalcon8657]

I love games that give you multiple endings depending on your choices. Detroid Become Human, Prison Boys, Tasokare Hotel - it just gives so many different ways of playing the game, and how little details you made in one episode could influence your ending.

[@Shapeshifters07]

Games aren't just art: I've always been of the opinion that they're, in fact, the ultimate art! They encompass all forms of art and combine them all into one; Games can have writing, music, animation, drawing, painting, sculpting, and any other form of art you can think of within them. On top of that, the most important aspect that a game has that no other art form can match is interactivity. Games are not just something to be observed, but something to be played a part within.

[@mattj2389]

Interactivity doesn't make something an ultimate art form and video games are not the first attempt at this. Visual art can and has been interactive, as has theatre. Video games are multi media, not ultimate. Multi media art isn't inherently superior to single media. No art, not even paintings, are meant to be merely observed.

[@Shapeshifters07]

@@mattj2389 it's not the interactivity that I think makes it ultimate; it's the fact games can literally be a complete combination of all art forms into one. It's not necessarily that it's better than any other art form; it literally is every art form together.

[@mattj2389]

@@Shapeshifters07 no they're not. There's no theatre, filming, nor dance in an average game. Plus, you're assuming all art forms have been created. There's a deep well of artistic medium and gaming is not ultimate. In fact, the fact that gaming's priority is always entertainment and profit over else means it's not an ultimate art form. Imo, an ultimate art form would be something that gives the artist complete control over their artistic expression. Video games are largely composed as group projects and, like I said, are more concerned with being profitable than being expressive. Combining forms of media doesn't increase something's amount of art-ness.

[@Shapeshifters07]

@@mattj2389 Ahh, but games can have all those things potentially though. There's such a thing as cutscenes, and dances being present within games, including live-action. Yes, they are capable of having every single form of art possible within them. Any form of art being industrialized loses portions of creative freedom. That doesn't mean games cannot be made solely for artistic expression. They're also largely composed as group projects because typically creating them is a huge undertaking requiring many artists skilled in different areas of expertise. Still, many one-man game projects exist. Their creators respected for their wide array of artistic skills. Games do give complete control over artistic expression. The spectrum of different forms of what might be considered a "video-game" is near infinite, the only real thing that typically ties them together is interactivity. The term is so loose because the possibilities are so vast. Also, yes combining many types of art does mathematically increase it's "art-ness", in fact.

[@efxnews4776]

Imagine the scene, just imagine this scene, you are playing a Tomb Rider game , and then you stop Lara Croft to look at Monaliza on Louvre. I not sure if this actually exist to be honest, but the scene itself it's pretty much the definition of art, that can even fit what critics consider to be highest of the highest art in itself. If the same happens in a Tomb Rider movie, there will be anyone that could claim that it isn't art just because it's in a movie?

[@masonshipton6996]

Isn't George currently working on a video game?

[@wesleyscott1633]

He said that a while ago and he wasn’t a serious gamer

[@weybye91]

he is writting the story for FromSoftwares new game

[@masonshipton6996]

@@wesleyscott1633 oh i see

[@Samm815]

@@wesleyscott1633 How long ago was this interview?

[@theelephantandtherider9536]

wouldn't that make him more impressive, he claims they are not art, but is trying to push it into art.... dunno about you but that , is truly, legendary.

[@itscarlosreally]

"They're not art...until Elden Ring comes out."

[@NimTV]

I’ve never been a huge gamer, so over the years I had never played a game that truly affected me emotionally until three years ago when I played Undertale. I think that’s the first video game that I truly felt immersed in the story and connected with characters, in a away that actually caused me to feel emotional. I think that this is something that could not have been achieved with the same story if it was told through film, or through writing. To this day that’s the one game that first showed just how much of an art form video games actually are. I can still remember how I felt emotionally through certain parts of the game. I haven’t played many games at all since then, and when I have more time and money I definitely would love to get into it more, to really experience the art form in all of its glory.

[@nunouno001]

Honestly in a world ruled by EA and Activision, George might have a point. Because Videogames are art, but AAA companies don’t want to make art or stories. They want to make revenue streams into all of our wallets.

[@mordor1779]

There is still some really good AAA developers, like From Software, CD Projekt, Santa Monica, Obsidian etc. Sure most of the bigs companies like EA or Activision are total scumbags but there is still a bit of good in the AAA industry

[@eadlynjune]

But there are many companies, producers, and directors who do the same thing. Where there is art there are people who want only to profit.

[@FlyingFocs]

Though to be fair, you could make the same argument for a lot of blockbuster movies, but no one will argue film as art. Really, it's just a clear case of bias.

[@nachoolo]

Same can be said about films and tv, really. They are not interested in art, but in profit (you just need to point to every film made by commitee (Suicide Squad), or souless remakes (Almosy every film made by Modern Disney). Still, they are art in my opinion. Being art ain't synonymous with being good.

[@MagusMarquillin]

But surely he knows other games exist. He'll at least know about Tell Tale's Game of Thones - I wonder if he's played it, because I think it would challenge his stance. Or if he's played any games other then a few arcades 30 years ago.

[@megashark1013]

"Art seeks to lead you to an inevitable conclusion." - Roger Ebert. I have high respect for Roger Ebert, but that is quite possibly the worst real quote I have ever seen. No, art should not lead you down a linear path to the same conclusion, art should be an idea that can be experienced or interpreted in many different ways.

[@DonVigaDeFierro]

Art is a thing on itself, but is ultimately you the one that has to see the conclusion. But that conclusion is not subjective...

[@mrcopycat2355]

@Megashark I agree, a same piece (be it a painting, book or even a videogame) may be interpreted in many ways, even if the artist didn't intend it so

[@frostthron8009]

By his definition neon genesis Evangelion or fight club are not art because they reach at different conclusions for different people

[@commonviewer2488]

@@DonVigaDeFierro An artist can have an intended meaning behind their work, but it is still for audiences to decide whether they see that same meaning, or something else entirely.

[@UsernameyMcUsernameFace]

Agreed. Propaganda tells you what to think, while art allows you to interpret it for yourself.

[@propheinx2250]

"You steal men's souls and make them your slaves! Mankind ill needs a savior such as you." "What is a man?!? But a miserable pile of secrets!" Totally not art

[@faffywhosmilesatdeath5953]

3:52 "But if you have played this game before you would immediately understand where I'm coming from." Is he gonna talk about Spec Ops: The Line? "Because the game that broke me as a person the most-" IS IT THE LINE? "I feel is a stellar example of art in gaming-" GOD PLEASE? "is Battlefield One." ... Okay...

[@escapefromtibet2530]

A videogame contains alot of artforms, i.e. artdesign, writing and music. That makes it art, people still disagree for some reason.

[@MAndSquared]

"Art seeks to lead you to an inevitable conclusion, not a smorgasbord of choices." Sounds wrong, but okay. I thought art was all about the different interpretations that can be drawn from it. Like a painting might have been made just to look pretty but multiple meanings could still be drawn from it. I'm mostly considering this as someone who did an art A-level and had to draw meaning from the art they looked at. While I did make up a lot of the meanings based on what I saw, who's to say that there weren't meanings that I just couldn't see or only known to the artists. It could be said that there are overall meanings that can be inevitably drawn from art, such as with the book Frankenstein the conclusion can be drawn that Victor Frankenstein was the real monster rather than his creation. It could be said that the conclusion is inevitable. However the same thing could be said about video games. With Undertale it could be said that violence can be avoided and it takes more strength to stick to the peaceful path. (I think I was going to go somewhere with that but in my tired state I've forgotten.)

[@casono]

I enjoyed being railroaded into killing 1 character so that I could then have the option of loading the game to actually have the choice to not kill any npcs.

[@somedudewatchintv5297]

Hbomberguy I think has a better argument for what Undertale is about but I don't think I can easily explain his points. You might want to give it a try assuming you've never seen it.

[@lnsflare1]

Point: Victor Frankenstein dropped out of school, so he is not actually a doctor.

[@MAndSquared]

lnsflare1 thanks for the correction, I’ll edit my comment now

[@Hekateras]

Interactivity is something that's so new and unique to games (more or less: some modern art is interactive but that too is a fairly recent phenomenon) that I honestly think a lot of people just haven't caught on yet. I remember arguing about this with people ten, fifteen years ago. The arguments then were much the same: people weren't comparing videogames to art, they were comparing it to the goddamn Mona Lisa. Thankfully, we've come a long way since then, even if there are still some deniers.

[@mega7758]

Videogames are a perfect blend of all artforms

[@lucasmadera569]

"Videogames aren't art" Me after playing the BioShock trilogy and Dark Souls: What?

[@zkyrus1873]

Can anyone explain the Dark Souls Hype to me? I mean, yeah, it's hard and it's nice to have won this game but... why is everyone making it out to be such a massive artistic game? I mean, I just don't get the hype around DS... care to explain?

[@Spookatz.]

@@zkyrus1873 the shear amount of lore and worldbuilding, paired with the engaging gameplay, makes it on a whole other level.

[@joaovitor9673]

@@zkyrus1873 nobody is saying that because the game is hard.

[@hrishikeshagrawal3099]

@@zkyrus1873 dark souls has created a world that you feel you're a part of. Almost every gameplay aspect has an explanation within game. The game takes you on a journey, your own journey. If you ever start playing, just remember to follow Siegmeyer's questline and you'll see why everyone gushes over DS1. There's nothing you cannot kill within the game, the only morality is your own moral compass. And the list goes on and on. I suggest watching The Act Man's video on why dark souls is a masterpiece

[@ChaosAura452]

2:52 ... *immediately thinks NieR:Automata* *Says NieR:Automata out loud* Damn it, I have to replay it now... and wont stop till I cry tears of joy again...

[@abudgie6909]

I was thinking The Banner Saga...

[@weltgeist2143]

I barely see anyone mentioning nieR in the comments which dissapoints me. One of the best games period

[@ChaosAura452]

@@weltgeist2143 same :[

[@ChaosAura452]

@@abudgie6909 hmm, I'll have try that then!

[@omniscientomnipresent5500]

Good [G]ame

[@eyyy2271]

"Video games aren't art" *Gehrman would like to know your location*

[@hunterjohnson7200]

ShreddingBlood my favourite boss fight ever

[@shitfacetheclown]

Why tf was dark souls not mentioned in this, that sort of encrypted story telling is impossible in a book or movie

[@rosemarydwitasari4693]

George: "video games aren't art" Horizon Zero Dawn, Asura Wrath, God of War, Elden Ring, Shadow of Colossus, Kingdom Hearts, Bloodborne, Metal Gear Solid, Red Dead Redemption 2, and The Witcher: *laugh in hidden*

[@Aswar211]

You forgot dark souls

[@rosemarydwitasari4693]

@@Aswar211 oops, sorry

[@aceofswords1725]

Manic Miner.

[@thegamingprozone1941]

Uncharted

[@davidnewhart2533]

You forgot Sekiro

[@superniqui10]

Outer Wilds is a great example of videogame art, the story only works because you are discovering it, finding the asteroid and and looking back at the dead corpse next to the ash twin teleporter and realizing why it died were it died, without being told it, is an amazing feling as you piece together the story at your own pace and the only way to win is to show that you understand why they did what they what they did and compleating their mission for them.

[@insertnamehere1089]

That’s why I love comics and mangas. It brings amazing angles and visuals to the table and it also can pull of dialogue and internal monologues seamlessly

[@shun_maru]

Shadow of the Colossus is a great artistic achievement. What it can convey and inspire is so sublime and serene.

[@ricardobpasin9846]

The fact that when you are talking about a choice and the theme playing in the background is 'The Choice' from the Last of Us is just perfect. Great video!

[@dink7458]

what you said about Battlefield 1 is similar to how I felt when playing the last mission in Halo Reach

[@joshwhite5730]

Same

[@sardette]

Show him Dark Souls, Bioshock or the Witcher series and ge'll instantly be converted.

[@seandennis8911]

He's literally working on From Software's game, so I think he's fully aware of Dark Souls

[@sardette]

@@seandennis8911Yeah, it seems Miyazaki got him to change his mind.

[@darekbaird]

Metal Gear Solid, FEAR, Total War, etc.

[@tommygun5177]

Justin C. No- minecraft

[@doodoobrah]

Darek Baird metal gear solid story is hackey. Mgs is more about gameplay

[@GlobalOutcast]

Anyone would have a hard time convincing me the first dark souls isn't art

[@V2ULTRAKill]

@@redflannelchannel3633 rdr is more of popcorn entertainment than high art, very pretty and fun popcorn entertainment but still

[@GBlockbreaker]

If you like Dark Souls, go play Hollow Knight, it's basically Dark Souls 1 except good (DS1 is a 10/10 but i don't possess the vocabulary to otherwise tell you how good Hollow Knight is)

[@solidsnake9898]

Exactly! The entire time watching this video I couldn’t stop thinking about DS1

[@fyanfyererro6990]

It's not art It's a masterpiece

[@minato_arisato3751]

@@V2ULTRAKill have you played rdr2?

[@anabenskywalker122]

He says they’re not art, yet he’s working with Hidetaka Myazaki to make Elden Ring so I don’t know

[@vojacked305]

Video games might be the highest form of art right now. Visuals, music, emotion, and storytelling.

[@0ptimal]

They are as much art as a movie or a book. Actually even more so, depending on the game, because there are so many more dimensions. In a game you are an aspect of the art, not just an observer.

[@fulldisclosureiamamonster2786]

I'd argue that books are the same way; you have to actively engage in the text and visualize it in your mind's eye, not view passively. Unless the narrative is in third-person omniscient, you are still a participant; just without the illusion of free will in the story.

[@aceofswords1725]

Video games are interactive art, they are defined by their interactivity - it is from interactivity that their art derives. How do you shape that interactivity is the prime question for a video game designer who aspires to make a work of art. ("Gameplay is king!") As simple as that. They were art way before they became technically capable of featuring a complex story. Tetris as a concept is an art masterpiece, just like a musical sheet written by Bach is a masterpiece.

[@Damphouse]

your last point is literally what distinguishes art from games though. Art is created and then experienced through observation. Video games are experienced through action. A movie wouldn't mean much if you could go in and change the ending every time you watched it; the same way a game wouldn't be fun if you had no control over what was going to happen

[@Fangornmmc]

Hmm, I can't remember the last book that made me emotionally attached to a literal cube with a heart on it. TBF, I think George made very reasonable points and was in no way disrespecting games or the effort that went into creating them. And, as others have pointed out, it's kinda fun to see that he's now collaborating on a game project :)

[@V2ULTRAKill]

I think George's take came from ignorance having never played portal or other games that are not only art but high art

[@user-qn4xu4tq7n]

@@V2ULTRAKill he even said that himself, the last games he played where on the Atari. He's just a bit out of touch and has no time to look into current video games

[@chrs-wltrs]

My big empathy moment in games is when you find Elizabeth in Bioshock Infinite, but she's an old woman. I felt like I had failed her, *ME* personally. I had to pause the game because I was crying so hard, and couldn't actually see the cut scene.

[@paris-1911]

There’s a very short scene in Saving Private Ryan that I felt was the closest in capturing that feeling you described in Battlefield with the lone, weeping soldier. For anyone who doesn’t know, Saving Private Ryan is a WWII film, and the opening involves the invasion of Omaha Beach on D-day. VERY gruesome scene, but amidst the chaos and the struggle of the Allied soldiers hurrying up the beach against a sea of gunfire, there’s a brief cut of a soldier, lying on his back in the sand with his organs exposed as he tries to hold them in - while he screams for his mother to help him. It’s such a sickening moment because it feels too real. It’s one of the few times I’ve ever felt a movie capture, inadvertently, it’s own weakness of a lack of interactivity compared to games and wield it like a strength: The feeling of helplessness. If movies don’t allow the audience to interact, then that scene put that idea into a whole different meaning for me.