Why Georgia is Building $4.6 BILLION Express Lanes in Atlanta Area | GA 400 Lanes

[@markberg6197]

Amazing video finally someone on KZbin who actually knows what their talking about and talks realistically

[@stephenedwardsnyc]

You should have mentioned GA400 inside the perimeter which was the last, but very important connection to 400 North of 285. It was built through expensive neighborhoods and was paid by a 50 cent toll for 20 years. Also this GA400 project is nearly as big as I-285's 4 elevated express lanes which will be built simultaneously with 400 or soon after.

[@stephenedwardsnyc]

@@raknoknak or better yet "they're" since that's what they meant

[@raknoknak]

@@stephenedwardsnyc They are and they're is exactly the same thing.

[@justinsayin3979]

Way too much truth from 10:47 on.

[@ltwadley7619]

Why don't you start your own channel, smarty pants?

[@brbarlow195]

As an Atlanta native… this is a lot of hard truths. Thank you this video

[@DarinHibbs1]

makes me want to move far away from Atlanta!

[@kingleo8422]

@@DarinHibbs1I will help you pack 😂😂

[@TheGhungFu]

Same here,, 5 generations. Atlanta used to be such a nice little city. Just a beast these days. We escaped about 25 years ago. The carpetbaggers can have it.

[@DownHillgamer]

Yeah they've already ruined Atlanta, Cobb, Douglas lithia springs s​@@TheGhungFu

[@leg690]

@@TheGhungFu Atlanta still is a nice city, just evolving like any other city

[@Bubuchga]

As someone who’s grown up taking 400 daily and MARTA, let me tell you this: Expanding this highway is STUPID. We need RAIL to get people in. Adding a lane only adds to the problem. Yes MARTA isn’t the safest, and it needs work, but the traffic will only get worse

[@michaelalva436]

You are a MORON

[@tinagrizzle777]

No more rail in suburbs, no thank you. More rail turns neighborhoods to crap

[@leonblue864]

as some one who also grew up in the north side. your opinion is very low in intelligence. Why would you spend millions on MARTA rail and buses when they are almost empty most of the time?? also they will never be safe. Toll lanes are the future of GA wether you like it or not. They can also build a toll lane in the perimeter and in the south side

[@leonblue864]

@@tinagrizzle777 thank you. idk why people keep thinking we are in europe or japan where its actually smart to have metros. Here in the states is imposiible because how spread out everything is and becuase how unsage it is with some people. and for political reasons we can't do anytanything abbout it. They need to add toll lanes every where in thte metrl

[@Bubuchga]

That’s the minority of the riders. Yes there are problems but majority of these people rely on rail to get to places. If we just spend more money adding tolls, we’re only adding to the problem instead of attacking it at the root. Yes rail has problems but spending money on expanding roads is just stupid and only will make things worse

[@16kingthe]

I say this as an Atl born and raised, and as a truck driver, Atl is by far one of the worst designed and worst maintained cities I've ever driven through. And If adding more lanes actually worked then I75 NB/SB at 12 lanes wide wouldn't have traffic. Our leaders are too focused on money and commercial/housing development and are actively ignoring the mounting problems with our infrastructure. Multiple parts of I75/285/20 flood when there's heavy rainfall and I've yet to see anyone address that.

[@dariusbrock2351]

Since you're a truck driver I'm sure you'd know but I heard that semi truck drivers aren't supposed to use Atlanta's city streets and have to drop their loads at locations outside of the city. Is that true?

[@bluelivesmurder5696]

​@dariusbrock2351 I'm a native ATLien who drives for Uber/Lyft and I see semi trucks on surface streets here all the time.

[@16kingthe]

@dariusbrock2351 No, I haven't heard of anything like that. Of course there are certain streets you can't go down but you'll just have to take the truck route.

[@neox9369]

To be honest, they are simply incompetent and know little about city structures, urban walkable streets, and how to even layout desirable city blueprints, this is America. Places in Europe and other nations would put every city in America to shame, even Rabat, Morocco. By the way DC native, the issue is all over America, but living in GA, you want to see improvements where you reside or pay taxes. Meanwhile in Cobb dummies are still putting up “vote no for m-splost”, and the first to complain about traffic getting worst with no solution. Cobb and the rest of the suburbs across the US continue to build low density single homes, further accelerating deforestation and sprawl.

[@stephenedwardsnyc]

@@dariusbrock2351 They can use the interstates inside the perimeter for local deliveries. The don't unload at a remote location to be picked up again. Very wasteful of fuel and more polluting.

[@DeweyDEWMANBrown875]

Absolutely love this presentation. I’m a life long Georgia (metro Atlanta) resident (76yrs). Informative. Professional. Thought provoking. Reality. Excellent work!

[@Benny-Bronx]

76? Driving still? In Atlanta? Sounds like a death sentence to me lol

[@ronniewatkins]

As someone who watched 400 being built as a kid and racing on it before it opened, this was a great presentation! Well done, Sir!

[@DoughBoiVegan23]

400 was the autobahn when it was all toll.

[@erichearduga]

@@DoughBoiVegan23 only one small extension has ever been toll.

[@Dan24943]

I bet you liked watching them film Smokey and the Bandit on it, too

[@Michael-uc2pn]

​@@ericheardugathat one "small" extension was the part everyone drove on to get in and out of Atlanta that direction. The main thing that changed though was that whole corridor absolutely blew up with growth and now it doesn't clear up till you get far up on the northern end of it.

[@peterroach3045]

Better security is vital for mass transit!!

[@TheNinjaDC]

The harsh truth is for most American cities, the best public transport option to develop isn't rail, its busses. Most US cities (and their subburbs) are built around cars, and continue to be. And you can't flip a switch to change that. Busses leverage that existing infrastructure, especially if lanes are dedicated to public transit that skip traffic. The problem is, *busses are not sexy.* They have a terrible, frankly hyperbolic, reputation. Which makes it harder to get more investment in it. Making an effort to reform the image of bus transit in the US will do more benefit to US transportation than hundreds of failed, half completed light rails that always plan on making a profit the next year; this time for sure.

[@MileageMike485]

Excellent point. Buses are easier to pass through politically and cheaper but have that negative stigma among Americans.

[@kyleb5169]

If there was a bus system I could take to get from my home to work, I would gladly pay for it. Right now, I vanpool with 4 other people so I don't have to drive as much but I know that's not available to many.

[@onetwothreeabc]

@@kyleb5169 Van pool is basically... a bus. It's better than when I ride a bus with just one other passenger.

[@CallMeRabbitzUSVI]

Busses are a stopgap measure, for us to truly fix transit. Rail has to be expanded.

[@seanevans3187]

The best public transportation is one that people would use. Like you said, bus has a terrible reputation (well deserved crap reputation here in Atlanta). Georgia has no BRT lines and has no proposed BRT lines for bus to be built. Every "express" bus proposal uses a shared car lane for much of the route. We can look at the car express lanes on I-85 and 75 to see that those suffer standstill rush hour traffic. Why would anyone give up there own car to sit in traffic on a fake rapid bus service?

[@achangar]

Great video! It's refreshing to see someone breaking down these complex issues realistically and with real knowledge. Thank you for the insights!

[@davidkacprzyk1989]

i like that "affordable housing is great as long as you build it away from me" going to use that next time I argue with a NIMBY🤣🤣

[@Michael-uc2pn]

Hey it may not be fair or equitable, but "you must be high income to live here" IS an effective way of keeping the riff-raff out. The same reason suburbs don't want public transit despite having to deal with traffic, it's a barrier to entry. "you must at least be able to afford a car to live here". Combine it with stringent emissions and safety inspections for cars to force old beat up cars off the road unless they get expensive repairs, and you've got a very effective means of keeping all of those peasants who can't afford a new car out of your town.

[@AbstractEntityJ]

​@@Michael-uc2pnYes, and then all the riff raff end up in the downtown, and the downtown is ruined for everyone. It makes your city a non-place with no real focal point worth going to.

[@BHPOfficial]

@@AbstractEntityJexactly they get so focused on the “riffraff” and don’t realize they turned their city into a soulless place not worth staying in

[@AbstractEntityJ]

@@BHPOfficial They also demand that the inner city widen the roads and build more parking everywhere to cater to themselves and their cars. That is also how cities get ruined.

[@scpatl4now]

Transit is attractive if you have proper frequency (at least 10 mins). If you police the trains properly, they would be safer, but as always, that costs money the state refuses to spend. MARTA is constrained by their budget. It is also the only transit agency that receives no money from their state government. It was created the same time as the DC Metro and look at where that goes. You get what you pay for.

[@Vinny.X]

It's not just the convenience of cars. People are rightfully scared of Marta bringing crime to their safe suburbs. Let be honest for a sec here and look at the problems a Marta stop has brought to Lenox Mall.

[@benjaminingram4857]

Y'all do know criminals have cars right?🤷

[@CallMeRabbitzUSVI]

​​@@Vinny.XLive here in Georgia, the rise in crime around Lenox corresponded with the rise of crime in other cities in other states at the same time. MARTA did not facilitate that crime, it was just opened around the same time and has been scapegoated by people who are against transit expansion. Source: I lived in Atlanta, Sandy Springs and Alpharetta (Another city that refused expansion)

[@cisium1184]

When the transit systems were created is immaterial - it's when and how the cities themselves were created that matters. Washington was laid out in the late 18th century, a time of foot and horse traffic, more or less on a tabula rasa by two dudes whose classical vision was largely unconstrained by the politics of a government in infancy or by a preexisting population with a preexisting lifestyle (apart from a few villages). This layout dictates a certain maximum traffic speed, even for the cars that came later: the sheer number of streets in DC, the resulting number of intersections, the percentage of those intersections that involved more than just two streets, the angles at which those streets intersect - all of this means that even when the broader avenues are empty at 4AM, there is only so fast you can drive from Point A to Point B. So Metro's creators were introducing a travel mode that was no just inherently faster than the transport modes the city was designed for, but inherently faster than the cars Metro was competing with. _Whereas,_ 90 to 95% of Atlanta was laid out _after_ the invention of the automobile (and the entire corridor of this extension project was laid out 50 years ago) and the "still-old" 5% of Atlanta had been significantly altered in the 70s to accommodate and maximize the flow of cars. Atlanta quite literally prioritizes the convenience of cars driven by people over the convenience of people not in cars. Cars move faster in Atlanta than in DC with comparable traffic; so compared to DC, MARTA trains have always faced tougher competition from cars, with less of a walking culture for trains to improve on. The one advantage MARTA and Atlanta have is the history of trams in the city, which the road layout actually still favors and which I believe will, eventually, make a comeback in older parts of town. TLDR, Metro has always been able to claim it's _faster_ than driving. MARTA at best has only been able to claim it's _as fast as, but cheaper and more convenient than,_ driving. A sales pitch that really only resonates when you have to go to the airport.

[@neox9369]

@@cisium1184It’s interesting how the city blueprint was laid out after the invention of cars, when it was established and rebuilt from 1837 to 1867. I’ll have to further investigate that. I’m assuming you mean the majority of midtown and Buckhead, and outside of the core original downtown.

[@ahampton3k]

Real talk! Thanks for another great video Mike!

[@andrebrooks9719]

Finally someone who is actually saying what makes sense and explaining why

[@stephenedwardsnyc]

Of Note: Mileage Mike states that toll rates are based on congestion of general purpose lanes, PERHAPS INDIRECTLY, but the price rises to discourage too many from entering the Express Lanes when the free-flow of 45mph or faster can't be maintained. There is a maximum number of vehicles that can use the Express Lanes until it slows too much. The price is only based on keeping too many from entering the lanes at any one given time. If no one is willing to pay, the price of the Express Lanes stays low regardless of how congested the general purpose lanes are.

[@kingnick6260]

This is one of the few times I can thank the KZbin algorithm for presenting your channel. ATL native here, subbed!

[@speedtrapRC]

As a tow truck, driver in the Atlanta Metro area everything you said is 100% correct it’s very refreshing to listen to someone who is highly educated and knowledgeable in the issue, they are talking about I subscribed

[@RobertLBarnard]

Excellent presentation! We live in Roswell, just off Holcomb Bridge and only use MARTA to use the airport. But in the past few years we've noticed more panhandling and other activities on the train making it not an option for my wife to use it alone anymore.

[@declineofthewest.]

Yeah, never let your wives or daughters ride Marta. Especially alone.

[@Dong_Harvey]

Conversely, the pan handler doesn't do anything to you. Fear of the other is what divides us. Deciding that you don't want to see the reality of the economic system you suffer under doesn't mean it's not there.

[@NameSpaceVoid]

@@Dong_Harvey too bad the fear of getting jumped / robbed by a wild pack of "locals" is legitimate. Maybe if there wasn't so much evil in the world things could be different but that ain't the truth. You'd be safer in Afghanistan than parts of Atlanta, especially at night. You gonna wait for a bus out there alone? Yea I didn't think so. At this point it's just self preservation.

[@do8717]

Wow! What a sober, rational assessment. No B.S. No politics. Just reality. Life is full of trade-offs. Want big house, two acres, great schools, sports parks and safe shopping areas?, well you will need to spend 2 hours a day in your car getting to/from that job that pays the bills. As a 60 year resident, I have 'moved North', 4 times along GA400. Would I have wanted to grow-up and old any place else?...Hell no.

[@cyanCubes]

Amazing video, finally someone who is realistic about transit in many American cities. The issue is that, for example, Atlanta is so sprawled that at points it is more than 50 miles from one side of the city to the other, while in some places with great transit like Paris, the city edges are around 20 ish miles in diameter. At a certain point we're gonna have to use high speed rail to transport people into the city center on time (intended irony -- hsr in the US aint happenin) I loved the point you brought up about creating public transit in suburbs and how it is completely impossible. Atlanta's highway situation makes me sad. I-85 going into downtown is absurd (it's like 14 lanes or something), and the stretch of I-75/85 in downtown is so wide that I jokingly compare to a river in a European city. There is a stretch of it west of midtown where there are old express lanes or something which are unused and just sit in the median, while they expanded the highway 8 lanes either side of it. And don't even get me started on the huge interchanges smack in the middle of downtown. The thing is that this huge Amazon River of asphalt doesn't seem to have fixed traffic. Driving at like 1 am there still has so much traffic. There's also a section northeast of the 85/75 interchange where there are 2 highways running parallel to each other (Buford Spring Connector and 85). Among all of the stupidities of the 400 project, one of the things I saw was that there were multiple elementary schools in the vacinity of expansion. I mean, what can I even say There are so many other things about Atlanta that I could whine about lol but I do agree with you that whining in comments isn't particularly productive, though I don't actually live in Atlanta, but travel there frequently. As a new viewer, I don't know if this is in your scope, but I would love to see your professional perspective on shopping centers, like the new "lifestyle" centers and whether or not there are any mall redevelopment projects similar to the one in Providence, RI.

[@vickieh720]

Wow. This is one of the most informative, honest and understandable explanations I've ever heard about a road project in GA. I've heard a couple over the years given by the DOT or the involved "partners" who were to construct the project, and it was never as clearcut and relatable and HONEST as this was. (Never did get that big road project up in Jasper. Still waiting on the truck route through Ball Ground.)

[@markham56]

Well done sir! As a 35+ year resident of Atlanta, you correctly outlined the problems and myths of mass transit.

[@lalagardenia6500]

When did GA get tolls? (A liberal nightmare?)

[@EpicRealistTV]

Love this! Such truths. I've been in ATL since age 10 and I agree with all of this. Trying to get out because there are too many people indeed!

[@milliedragon4418]

I mean the only thing I like that they're adding are the BRT lanes. I don't think adding more lanes is going to make it more effective like you said. Although I am curious, would it benefit to also have like a separate truck Lane(s) ?

[@Michael-uc2pn]

Personally I think truck lanes would be a significant benefit on the I-75 corridor, particularly south of Atlanta, since a lot of that 18-wheeler traffic is probably just long haul traffic that's using I-75 as a railroad alternative and separating it from the cars would make everything flow more smoothly and hopefully more safely. You could even have dual purpose bus and 18-wheeler lanes as long as the trucks weren't causing backups and slowing the buses down.

[@maroon9273]

​@@Michael-uc2pn bus will need its own seperate lane on the CVL lanes.

[@elia2649]

I4 Ultimate in Orlando is another example of Public-Private Partnership, with a consortium of construction companies collecting the revenue from the Express Lanes for the next several decades. While I also have an issue with the private ownership, I cannot deny that traffic has improved in the rebuilt areas (minus some trouble spots at peak times). As long as toll prices are kept reasonable as they are now, I can begrudgingly accept the realities as to why our state DOT's are increasingly selling out to private companies.

[@MileageMike485]

Yeah the prices on the ones in Orlando seems pretty decent for keeping traffic flowing.

[@JackDaniels-tx4qx]

DMV also has some tolls that can rack up faster than taking the PA Turnpike or any one of Port Authority's bridges into NYC, but considering how bad traffic can get, it can be worth it. I just can't stand how it's only one-direction.

[@inkedsharkyt]

I-4 ultimate is my favorite stretch of interstate highway. Not just the smooth ride, but the architecture is very nice!

[@njv1234]

i4 ultimate should be the national standard when building these express lanes

[@maroon9273]

​@@inkedsharkytvery close to express/local lanes highways in New Jersey.

[@super5oldier139]

Thank you. As a resident that drives this way occasionally it's nice to see a really good breakdown. Keep up the great work!

[@bjhendoable]

You made intelligent comments through this entire video. Saying what needs to be said with truth and honesty. You seem to know your stuff. You hit the nail on the head with this inciteful video

[@englanddg6227]

As someone who lives OTP more than a decade, and does not own a car, and has not owned a car in almost a decade, it's actually surprising how well one can get around areas like Sandy Springs, Dunwoody, and Peachtree Corners without one. However, this lifestyle did cause me to change the way I look at residences. I now look at things like proximity to shopping, etc. Two years ago I got an electric bike (before then I had a normal one), and it extremely increased my range. It takes me about an hour to get from Sandy Springs to Brookhaven on my bicycle. I do this ride once a week to see clients in that area. And, proximity to the MARTA (Sandy Springs) opens up pretty much the whole city to me without having to pay the $50 or so an Uber would cost round trip. (though, I do use Uber as well). The arguement is one of cost. A car payment is about $500-$800 a month. Insurance can also run in the hundreds. Then you have gas and maintenance. Even if you own the vehicle and do minimum limits insurance, you are still looking at hundreds if not a thousand plus a month for a vehicle. I will say this. The issue with public transit, and you hinted at this pretty strongly, is far more cultural than real. People make excuses not to use it. They exaggerate issues or have poor impressions of it due to a rare past poor experience that they have heard about or maybe just imagine. I'm not saying it's wholly irrational, for example, Garnett station gets a bit dicey at times because the Greyhound and the Jail are both there. But, I think there's more to it. See, not having a car is a social change. You have to literally change the way you look at things. You need to plan your trips more in advance, since you can't just "hop in the car". You have to get used to walking. I'm at a point where walking 2-3 miles to get to a place (about an hour's walk for me) isn't a big deal at all, much less if I use my electric bike. But, when I first started living like this, I strongly remember for about a month or two feeling like it took "forever". Now, I actually enjoy it. I've lost 60+ lbs. But, beyond that, I found that living in the modern area, I could take my entertainment along with me quite conveniently. So, I'll toss on some youtube videos or a tv show or something, and before I know it, I'm there. But, it was an adjustment. One disclaimer, I did used to live in Brooklyn for a period. There, this sort of lifestyle is fairly normal. But, I wanted to point out that, whilst you can't do this in the less dense suburbs as easily, Peachtree Corners / Norcross / Sandy Springs / Dunwoody / Doraville, etc....all these areas this lifestyle can be accomplished with some minor changes in attitude.

[@johnathin0061892]

You don't have to spend that much on a car (certainly not thousands a month.) I only pay $60 a month for insurance, paid car I only paid 2000 for (15 year old Toyota), put 3000 into it over 3 years. Not cheap, but not thousands a month.

[@Zan.Evan.Dawson1243]

Perfect candidate for the 'Not Just Bikes' channel 😁

[@englanddg6227]

​@@johnathin0061892 Average insurance rates...not whatever you claim to have, are in the hundreds a month. Peaking in the ATL market, especially ITP, but OTP isn't great either. All of GA is 200+ a month give or take, as an average. Annual cost of auto insurance for a Georgian is above the national average, sitting around $2700 a year. Most of this is due to our high propensity for uninsured motorist claims. Now, this includes so called "full coverage" (which doesn't exist), but generally refers to comp and coll plus reduced by vs added on uninsured motorist (which I'm pretty sure you don't even know what that is). However, your belief that car insurance is "cheap" around the ATL zip codes is simply false. I know way more about this topic than you, and have real data at my disposal. The average premium is $2084. I am not great at math, but if you divide that less a 20% or 25% down pay, which is done for equity reasons, you don't come out with "$60 a month".

[@orthrus4490]

Youre forgetting gas, maintenance, tolls (if you take them), parking (if you go anywhere in a downtown). There's tons of "hidden" costs when it comes to car ownership that add up over time, especially since a lot of them (like maintenance) arent on a monthly or even yearly basis (oil change, tire replacement and rotation, accidents (the average american gets in 3-4 accidents during their lifetime), window cracks, etc).​@johnathin0061892

[@JW3BALT]

I’m in dekalb off the gold line and scooter or subway everywhere. It’s freeing and cheaper.

[@Aggie4life77]

I lived in Atlanta from 2001 to 2012. They should have built a second loop decades ago! I live in Texas now. They might not do everything great, but they know how to build highways!

[@eh4236]

Lived in the Atlanta metro area for nearly 14 years. I last lived in Alpharetta/Windward Pkwy area. I moved out of the area in 2009 and settled for a rural town in the SE part of the state. So glad I left although I missed some of the stuff I used to do. At first I thought I was going to miss Alpharetta, the shopping, playing in my tennis leagues but the longer I have been away from there, the more I appreciate living where I do now. Less stress, much less traffic and lower population density. I can accomplish everything I need to do from where I live now. If I need to go to the city, I can and be back home the same day with less stress and more relaxation. So glad I am out of that rat race now. Sailing into retirement.

[@DJSlaughter]

Everything you said in the video was spot on! I currently live in Dawson county right off of Georgia 400. My wife and I absolutely hate it up here because the growth has gotten to be too much. When we moved here we were actually trying to get away from the growth but we didn't do our research and realize that Dawsonville is a growing area just like Forsyth county. In the 5 years we've been here, the growth has been phenomenal and it's at the point where we're averaging a new construction project every other week. We're actually are going to move to another state next April because it's gotten so bad. And judging by when this project is supposed to start, we're moving at the perfect time. 400 is already a nightmare and this is going to make it worse as far as the road work. As far as it being cheap to live here, this is true compared to other areas but for the average person like my wife and I, we can't afford anything up here.

[@preeyakumari-i2q]

What people don’t realize is cramming all this development in here so fast, soon it’s gonna be like New Jersey, your taxes are gonna skyrocket. New school more police, more highways and more infrastructure to maintain etc

[@TheKvl]

Move to South Georgia. The State will forget that you exist 😂

[@katiekane5247]

Hey neighbor, I'm in far west Dawson. I avoid 400 at all costs but the developers have hwy 9 in their sites 😢

[@kacee9553]

Great job on sharing this information and your honest opinions I agree with 100 percent. Voting matters, being informed matters, and knowledge is power. Thank you!

[@JackDaniels-tx4qx]

Touching on the downs of public transit (i.e, the homeless, drug use, cleanliness, etc.), you'll hear New Yorkers, transplants, tourists, and anyone else who goes to the city complain about this, and yet it still remains so widely used to this day (one of its lines is the most crowded one in the entire continent). I can confirm, since I have lived there for almost my entire life, and when I go back, I can't say I don't see some form of undesirable element, and yet even on weekends, depending on what line I hop on, the train can be packed (it does also have to do with population, geography, and history, since the metro area is by far the largest in the US by population, the city is on islands, and it dates back to the 1600s before the sprawling of the mid-20th Century came to be, not that you can sprawl on islands unless you're Long Island). I can't speak for everyone, but I can say how I am, and how many people are based on this, is this point right here: people will generally tolerate how nice or how shit a system looks if the system does what it's supposed to. I work in Philly, and as much as I speak on and on about the needles and cigarette buds I find on the MFL, I will still take it because it is useful and driving in Philly is an alternate I would rather avoid (what with having to put up with drivers and the mafia that is the Parking Authority). Same for New York. I live up in Lehigh County, and though there's a bus line that connects to the college and is near where I live, it has an absolutely appalling 1 hour headway, and the last bus leaves as soon as my evening class starts. So as much as I try and avoid driving if I can in a city, I make the decision to drive. I have taken MARTA before, and it seems like a system that gets the job done. I have also heard that poor headways contribute to low ridership. What can also contribute to low ridership is if you're a transportation system that not only is constantly late, but closes way too often for snow. That is what one of my buddies from Quincy said about MBTA, by the way. Yes, a transportation system in New England (Boston area, as well as Rhode Island), known for having horrible winters, apparently closes way too often for snow. Simply put, people will take a public transit system if: 1. First and foremost, it is actually useful in getting you from Point A to Point B in a timely manner. 2. Public transit is, in some way shape or form, baked into the metro area's way of life (think CTA, WMATA, MTA/NJT and to an extent, SEPTA and MBTA)

[@Demopans5990]

Do not forget 3: When driving in the area is so awful, and parking so scarce, you end up walking to your destination anyway. If you're walking 4 blocks to your destination, you might as well take the train. The station is about that far from your destination.

[@krisstarring]

I live in Atlanta, and your list.... MARTA is none of those things. It is pretty much useless except for maybe the Red and Gold lines or at the very least, the Blue and Green lines from Decatur to Five Points. There were many lines proposed in the original MARTA plan from the 70's that were never built, crippling the system from the start. For one, MARTA rail doesn't even go near prominent Atlanta institutions like Emory University or the CDC as was originally drawn up. They have talked about putting light rail along the right of way of existing railroad tracks in what they call the "Clifton Corridor" as the road in the area is Clifton Road. It would create a line that would connect the Blue/Green MARTA heavy rail lines to the Gold Line. And, as far as Atlanta's roads go, they are a confusing mess outside of the semi-grid in Downtown and Midtown (and it's still not consistent) because most of Atlanta's made arterial roads were paved over old wagon trails that just followed the path of least resistance based on terrain and other factors. Peachtree Street/Road itself was laid over an old Native American trail that predates European settlement. You're never going to have a comprehensive street system like using old 19th century routes as your guide. It is a sharp contrast to the meticulously planned D.C.

[@yaush_]

I can say as a person that lives in greater Boston. Snow closures have never affected me. Any rail service that closes is replaced with bus service. Of course if there is heavy snow then the rails will need to be cleared before trains can operate again

[@pickled51]

The stupid thing about the proposal with transit in the center of GA 400 is that no one thought it will actually be used. If you make BRT bus riders change to MARTA where it currently ends, transit ridership decreases the more times riders have to transfer from one mode to another. If the BRT busses continue past the MARTA station as express busses into downtown Atlanta, it may attract more riders. Here in Nashville, TN, we are currently at the beginning of a PPP partnership (receiving input from citizens) to add toll lanes to I-24 from Murfreesboro, TN to just outside downtown Nashville. This will be the cheap version of toll lanes (plastic pipes to differentiate the toll lanes from the free lanes) vs. the more expensive versions with Jersey Walls separating the roadways built thorough downtown Orlando, FL and I-66 west of Washington, DC.

[@scpatl4now]

The BRT will also be MARTA

[@danbert8]

@@scpatl4now But it will still involve a transfer from the BRT to the train. They should have just extended the train up the median like they do inside the perimeter...

[@scpatl4now]

@@danbert8 No argument from me. The only thing is heavy rail is very expensive, but I think it would be worth it

[@danbert8]

@@scpatl4now Heavy rail is expensive up front, but maintaining extra BRT busses and paying staff and drivers vs just running longer train routes with existing hardware and drivers seems like it makes sense. Especially since you'll already have the grade separation and gentle grades of the middle of the highway anyway. No way extending heavy rail MARTA is cheaper on a 10-20 year time scale.

[@Michael-uc2pn]

​@@danbert8I've never understood why each of the major interstates don't just have MARTA rail running right alongside them with stations at every major exit, OTHER than NIMBYism. Frankly it should have been implemented back when they built the interstates, but no one was thinking that far ahead. If people could just drive to the interstate, park, and then hop on a train to the office, way more people would take transit.

[@ClaireAdis]

Fantastic video! I appreciate how you discuss the reality of the situation.

[@melonman2422]

Hi Mike, I wont say my name since its KZbin, but im an urban planning student at the University of Illinois Chicago. I have been watching your content for about 2 years and am a big fan of the channel. I mention this because I have an idea and wanted to hear your feedback on it. I have a big dream of fixing Chicago's major traffic problems and I have been working on ideas and solutions for a long time now. What I propose is to build a community organization that would oversee all operations on the entirety of Chicago's expressway network and charge tolls on all expressways (similar to the Illinois Tollway) while simultaneously keeping the expressway construction federally/state-funded. I know that tolls are a controversial topic, but I believe Americans wouldn't mind paying them if it meant that their communities would thrive in response. A term I like to call "dead money" would be used to fund these projects, because instead of spending it on something personal, you spend it on something that benefits your community in turn increasing your land value/potentially not spending money on something that the toll revenue pays for in your community. We also already have a poor tax base, so our taxes aren't really paying for a lot in terms of city projects, and instead are left to developers trying to make a profit. The point of the tolls is to fund community projects that tackle intersectional challenges and social injustices within the communities that these expressways serve. This would include projects like fixing our public transport corridors and re-developing communities instead of gentrifying them. Things like welfare funding for those in need, and reducing our city-wide gas tax if possible as well. In a long-term plan, I believe in turning our trench expressways and viaducts into multi-modal transit corridors that are accessible for all. I believe that this plan for fixing our cities' transportation problems could work but of course, it is all hypothetical and it would require a lot of community involvement which is clearly lacking. But thats a whole other topic. I just wanted to express how amazing this video is. The points that were discussed here about the "transit is the magic elixir" stigma that a lot of urban planning KZbinrs, though a civil engineer yourself, think of to raise awareness about the U.S.'s style of development and how it is so "detrimental". I can only hear so many sarcastic comments about how cookie-cutter suburbs are bad. We the people do forget we have power here as shown by your source from the 2019 Fulton County voter turnout rate. As someone who rides the CTA every day, I see the points that you talk about first-hand. This video really lit a spark in my brain I guess, cheers I

[@MileageMike485]

It could have an effect but the issue you'll run into with any proposed new taxes on those expressways is that it would probably require federal approval to put tolls on roads that aren't already tolled and that's a very tall order politically. Then the issue of selling it to citizens as something that's good for the overall community. But yeah, existing transportation corridors are the most ideal for adding new transportation infrastructure like rail, BRT, etc. as it's usually costly and difficult to carve out new corridors in built up areas.

[@stephenedwardsnyc]

People and businesses the are already taxed to death in Illinois leading to a declining population. Where is all of that tax revenue going now? I'm sure auto insurance is very expensive. The old freeways were paid for by the citizens long ago, and their gas-taxes in Illinois pay for maintenance. Tolls added on top of everything else to throw more money at the lowest economic bracket to fix their issues? I don t see any connection between the 2 subjects. Public transit is already in place. Can economically disadvantaged residents get to jobs and education now in Chicago? How would taking more money from commuters going to work be used to cure social injustices? Yes freeways cut through poor neighborhoods 70 years ago. People aren't forced to stay in any one place. Rich and poor areas to live exist by the dozens across all US cities. Redlining ended in the 70s. It seems like you are just looking for a new untapped source of funding to be used for an unrelated purpose.---Perhaps a lucrative gun buy back program would save lives and hundreds of millions spent by the city every summer. on medical and police. That's what Chicago has become famous for to the rest of the country. So much wasted money spent in emergency rooms, funerals, etc., police detail. I don't mean to sound critical, but that's what should be remedied first.

[@thesharinganknight]

As an Atlanta native that lives in the east suburbs, this shit is dumb. Just like how 75 North in Marietta and 75 South between Stockbridge and McDonough, and even the just now completed Ga 400/285 interchange, ITS STILL GRIDLOCKED. Even 20/285 East and West are getting added lanes currently and I'll guess around 6 months -1 year it'll still be gridlocked. I just wish MARTA heavy rail or even commenter rail will expand to all suburbs and exurbs. But I know all the oldheads will never let that happen. That's why I wanna be an engineer out of spite.

[@1985toyotacamry]

Yeah I live in McDonough and I'm like I don't see the point of express lanes. Not to mention it won't solve anything. To be honest they should have at least have a rail system so it can at least expand outwards. But you are right they won't allow it (at least where I live) outside Clayton County. And to be honest the traffic in McDonough is horrid. I know they are building and widening roads but it will become a problem again.

[@stephenedwardsnyc]

I've never seen I-75 Express Lanes in Cobb not flowing freely in afternoon rush period and tolls never above $5. In other words that project works well. South I-75 Lane is going to be changed to get another lane I think. Express Lanes always flow 45 mph. That's what you are paying for. Variable pricing guarantees free flow forever, only accidents cause it to stop.

[@nas8326]

You should open a driving school and stop crying. The roads are fine, but too many geniuses can't drive a car properly. Watch 6 car links between every car when the turn arrow is green. Geniuses 💯.... And man say he wants to be an engineer. 😂

[@synth505]

Nobody wants the homie g's bussin a cap in their expensive neighborhoods. Can't say I blame them either. Atlanta is a complete sh*thole. Public transit only seems to benefit the people who can't hold down a job to afford a car. So, they get public transit access for free and commit crimes. The people who live in suburbs outside Atlanta are there because they don't want to live in Atlanta. Why bring the miscreants in Atlanta to you via public transit? Screw Marta.

[@zsi]

​@1985toyotacamry The express lanes aren't meant for local residents but for those just passing through. My parents live near the express lanes in Stockbridge, so I know how gridlocked it is there. When I'm driving to or from Florida, these express lanes save me a lot of time. I bypass the gridlock, and because I'm not in the free lanes, I'm not contributing to the congestion.

[@justinsayin3979]

Mike: I don't know what set you off in your "Thoughts and Conclusions" (10:47), but what a magnificent rant. Thank you for all for your work.

[@davidnelson2204]

As someone living off of Holcomb bridge rd I’ve thought about this. One transit system will NOT solve our issues. We do need to expand marta or have an equivalent system that will link up to Marta. Personally I was thinking about sky trams instead of ground rail but not sure if that will be fast enough. Local cities / neighborhoods need to sponsor electric golf carts or e bikes so locals can get to the bigger transit points / local grocer easily without having to own a car. Charge per use and a penalty if not returned. Track via gps. Different cities can try different methods and then the best can catch on from there. The alt Marta could be sky tram / fancy busses (with food service and charging ports for all seats) / rail / monorail / other ways to move people around 50 to 60 mph. Solve the local issue, and then connect local spots of heavy traffic. There is my idea good sir. Please poke holes in it and let’s come up with something better.

[@rabbivj]

I think they’re turning exit 7 into a diverging diamond interchange…

[@Michael-uc2pn]

Golf carts/e-bikes are a great idea, and as places like Peachtree City show, people will just buy their own as long as you build the trail network for them, which is MUCH cheaper and easier to build and maintain than actual roads because it's basically just glorified bike trails. You grade, put down a bed of gravel, and throw blacktop on top of it. And you can fit them in gaps you would NEVER be able to fit an actual road in, or just incorporate them into greenspace while only cutting enough trees to fit the path itself (no shoulder needed). It's the same concept as cars, but takes up way less space, requires way less infrastructure, and obviously pollutes way less. As long as you don't need to leave the city (most people work in Atlanta so they need a car), you can literally live on Peachtree City without a car. You'll just be stuck there because the next step would be to actually have a transit line that goes to Atlanta. Trail networks just might be the answer when combined with a rail hub for each area. The ONLY major sticking point is that if I parked my golf cart at a MARTA station, I would FULLY expect it to get stolen or vandalized. They're not exactly the most secure vehicles. No doors and unless you change the key, most brands have a universal key for all their carts, since they were designed as golf course fleet vehicles.

[@michaelmerck7576]

​@@Michael-uc2pnthat has been done in many metro areas ,I've seen it work i. Flowery bran h Georgia but it took a out 20 years to finally be completed

[@awetstone56]

I think if we make our neighborhoods accessible to food/stores/parks not via car, the network around Atlanta would really open up and eventually all be connected

[@idriveastationwagon1534]

15:20. I’m a former UNCC student and the light rail was very convenient going from the campus to uptown charlotte. However we would get random drifters who would wander around the dorms of the campus after riding the train there. Now there is a gate at one of the pathways that you have to swipe your campus id card just to access the inner parts of the campus.

[@BMWE90HQ]

Went there as well my senior year the blue line opened and you are not wrong!

[@idriveastationwagon1534]

@ remember that tunnel that goes under Wallis hall? That’s where the gate thingy is now. It’s really a glass door but you gotta swipe your id just to access the courtyard in north village.

[@victor4advice]

Very good commentary I mostly agree with. I lived in the ATL metro area 20 years and know it well. One answer is big employers with big offices in high rise need to downsize those operations and open smaller offices in areas where most of their employees come from...like the northern suburbs. ATL jas large sprawling office complexes where thousands of employees drive to. Also, people should look for jobs in smaller cities where quality of life is better, housing is good, and pay is competitive. You will be happier even if you have to take a little pay cut. Lower cost of living will make up the difference.

[@mattguey-lee4845]

Transit tends to work better in older denser cities in the US like Chicago or New York. These cities were built around walking and transit when they were developed. Newer cities like Houston and Atlanta were built around highways so everything about them is built for that. The thing I like about where I live is that the things I like are relatively close to where I live. That means I don't have to drive that far to do what I want to do.

[@neox9369]

Chicago is around the same age as Atlanta, no drastic difference. Incorporates between 1833-1837 and Atlanta 1837-1843(terminus&Marthasvillle). Houston was established in 1837 and was Spanish at the time. Even then European nations and others put every city in America to shame as far as walkability, density and blueprint. Rabat, Morocco runs circles around NYC and Chicago lol, these cities are still car centric regardless, just the lesser evil in context lol. A better comparison would be Savannah, Ga to Atlanta, a city built in the early to mid 17th century and planned properly

[@Demopans5990]

The big difference is whether the city had enough money to kick out highway bulldozing. NYC kicked out Robert Moses. Houston at this time, was flattened. Even during Moses's time, you can see what parts of the city he was unable to touch due to NIMBYs. The Bronx got bulldozed for the Cross Bronx. Manhattan remains mostly intact

[@Cripleclarence_1948]

Embrace work from home for those that can. You'd eliminate 40% of traffic.

[@MileageMike485]

💯

[@universaljustice7376]

The board members of the large employers are heavily invested into commercial real estate so the will not allow those offices to stay vacant.

[@Cripleclarence_1948]

@@universaljustice7376 ....... While the board members work remotely.

[@justinsayin3979]

@@universaljustice7376 Huh? Keep paying millions in rent so my stock portfolio doesn't get hit? Maybe, but it's a stretch.

[@naelrahman1224]

I live in ATL proper and commute to Roswell. I love public transit but you hit the nail on the head - why take a slower (by >1 hour), more inconvenient, unsafe system over the luxury of my car? To the last part of the vid - the core city of Atlanta has great urban bones. What we need is more jobs located in the central city instead of jobs in suburban office parks, and more reliable transit intown. You're right that people want SFHs, but if jobs were centralized in one place instead of spread out, there could be more of a justification of commuter rail. But that needs to paired with making rail faster and safer for middle class commuters.

[@Carsia]

That’s my issue. Lol. I moved south of the airport, but most of the “good” jobs are north of the city. I made my choice due to many factors, but bringing more of those jobs to downtown or midtown would be ideal. Delta and CFA are the only big companies down this way for what I do. I’d rather commute to Macon before I deal with 400 to get to Alpharetta. Lol.

[@kennixox262]

Since Trump will return to the White House, forget any money for public transportation and expect more money for roads - well maybe but only if it appeals to the oligarchs.

[@relaxlibrary4249]

I've never understood why all the well-paying jobs are on the northside of town and inaccessible by public transit. It's madness!

[@kennixox262]

@@relaxlibrary4249 Depending on where on the north side one works. Perimeter Center is fairly well accessed by MARTA. The rest of the areas, not so much. Cobb did not want it and now they suffer without. Same with Gwinnett. The last big MARTA vote that I recall was back in the late 1980's with both counties resoundingly rejecting it due to reasons of race.

[@GBamaBoy]

I was once a resident in Dunwoody-Roswell. Georgia 400 is the worst hwy in the entire state.

[@Loopsonloops]

My family moved to Alpharetta in 2000. GA 400 used to be a nice, almost always slow traffic hwy. then things changed, as it did with most of Atlanta. The horrible traffic if one of the main reasons why I have moved out of Atlanta and why going back feels awful.

[@sportcoatjoditv7148]

This is what I call CONTENT CREATION !!!!

[@pokemonred2005]

As someone who is from Boston but moved to Atlanta as a teenager because my Grandmother retired to live in the area because she loved the city, I did advocate for Atlanta to get transit expansion. I did advocate for the ability to walk more, to have better transit (even buses, as they did not exist in Snellville where my Grandmother retired to), to have better bike networks. However, after years of realizing none of that would come to the area before I grew old, I chose to pack my bags and go home. I love my family, but I find myself significantly happier in Boston where I am able to walk, bike, or take transit where I need to, and where if I drive it is a choice I can make based on the circumstances rather than feeling like it is a requirement. I hate to say I've lost hope, but unfortunately it feels like a hard truth that transit in Atlanta will improve very slowly, if ever; and even with the BRT proposals: If I chose to drive to take transit, why would I drive to a bus rapid transit stop to take the train, when I could sit in traffic for just a bit longer and go directly to the train? It saves the hassle of transferring and it's easier to plan around getting to the train on time because I can at least control when I leave and (within reason) how fast my car goes.

[@CurtGodwin]

I live in the northern part of the controlled-access GA 400 corridor and this is going to be a nightmare. I already avoid going to Atlanta unless I absolutely have to (which is rare), and this will make it sooo much worse. I live 3 miles from where I work, don't need to use GA 400 at all... but it still impacts my commute. It's nothing more than a concrete river with limited crossings, just like the Chattahoochee River and Lake Lanier to the east of GA 400. This will push more vehicles onto surface streets during construction, which already struggle to handle increased traffic during "leaf peeper weekends". This is zero benefit to me, so I guess I should be happy that a private firm is paying for it... but that's only IF they don't fold. This has BAD IDEA written all over it.

[@m-at-the-w142]

Beautifully put! So balanced and so true.

[@landrytelfair445]

3:15 This render looks completely insane. And the render shows 2 typical ATL NPC trucks in the left lane of the general use lanes..... and a car tailgating them so this is must be exactly what its going to be like.

[@Michael-uc2pn]

Middle: bus lanes and express lanes Outside: PEASANTS Left lane outside: NPCs 😂 But seriously public safety should just set up cameras in the left lanes that detect and auto ticket any 18-wheelers driving in the left lane. There are signs on every overpass that tell them it's not allowed, and these are professional truck drivers, they should know better. Maybe mailing them a $50 idiot ticket would generate some revenue and change the behavior.

[@michael_alan]

Thanks for this news. I live close to Dawsonville and experience the North Georgia Autobaun often. Your comments at TS 10:30 bring up a point I have. Living in New England many years ago, I remember the successes of adding through lanes instead of variable cost toll lanes at improving traffic flow of the common use lanes.

[@adambuesser6264]

Can trains replace highways in the Atlanta metro?

[@MileageMike485]

Not at all. Too many subdivisions full of single-family homes.

[@Shiesty4302]

Atlanta is a “modern city” with a boat load of sub divisions like Mike said. And very little walkability. So would make it useless. Compared to cities like New York or Chicago where it’s way more dense

[@milliedragon4418]

It can help reduce it or at least who wouldn't drive normally I would say the northern suburbs however would most use it whenever they have to go to the airport, or an event, possible local commute in the inner suburbs. ATL has train towns throughout the metro. Caleb Stubb did a feasibility study of using existing rail, not heavy rail but regional rail. Look up ATL Trains. The great thing about is those areas because the downtowns of those areas are dense and walkable, however, would still need bus transit * outside of the downtowns proper. However counties like Forsyth will not have that option as there is no existing rail you would have to build it. * Forgot to mention that the brt is the best approach for North Fulton and Forsyth because of this, from a frugal standpoint.

[@KerryHixon]

No, because the folks in the northern suburbs don’t want the “poors” from the city to be able to catch public transit to their neighborhoods.

[@maroon9273]

​@@KerryHixonyet those same poor people will travel to their area on cars.

[@StarATL]

First time viewer. Awesome video, earned my subscription.

[@Lantana1]

This is thoughtful and almost depressing. There is no solution. I spent half my life in Atlanta back when you could still easily get around. Those days are gone. I now live in rural NC and use the Peach Pass lanes when I visit the city. I consider it the cost of entry!

[@annalockwood3021]

Love this idea, so cleverly done! Adding this concept into my notes for future reference.

[@jakkew5753]

Interesting fact: the "Eastbound and Down" scene from Smokey and the Bandit was filmed on this section of GA 400, although it is set in Alabama. There is at least one I-285 sign visible however. At that time, this section of GA 400 was only two lanes in each direction.

[@idriveastationwagon1534]

There’s another scene in that movie where you can see it was filmed on a California freeway 😂.

[@jimmynickels6248]

I like your approach to explaining this, my guy

[@PopLightBrown]

People in Atlanta's suburbs won't use mass transit as long as Atlanta residents are on the trains. The suburbs want nothing to do with Atlanta. That's why it's so hard to expand MARTA in the region.

[@Michael-uc2pn]

Doesn't help that at this point they don't even offer trains on the ballot. Every election its the same "would you like to pay 1% sales tax for more buses and some BRT", which I think to a lot of people means: 1. I get to pay more in taxes 2. Traffic will probably be terrible while they're building bus lanes, and they'll probably take away from car lanes 3. I still won't take the bus because it will still be quicker and more convenient for me to drive to work I'd take a train to work if they put one that went straight from Cobb to Midtown where I could just work on my laptop the whole way there, but to your point, it will never happen.

[@MichaelJ843]

But yet the work in the city of Atlanta, and their kids lives there, that makes no sense.

[@Elroy-d1f]

I’ve taken ATL mass transit many times and it is not pleasant. Definite safety concerns and vagrants. Complete lack of policing.

[@play030]

Racism white supremacy is why but it's fading in Atlanta

[@tinagrizzle777]

No one in the suburbs wants rail in the suburbs because when that happens the neighbors gain people who can't afford to drive, undesirables.

[@trevaughncox3930]

Great video Mike, I enjoyed watching & learning about mobility issues in ATL!

[@MrJaytwo]

When I moved to Atlanta back in 1990, there was talk about an exterior loop around the city. It would be like the existing 285 but a few miles farther out. THAT would have helped Atlanta traffic immensely because most of the interstate traffic could totally bypass the city. The cost would have been astronomical but I still believe it would have been worth it.

[@markusmatthew7044]

Very detailed and thoughtful analysis video. Makes me ponder the quantity of stops Marta has and if they’re frequent.

[@ace20016]

1)Well at least GDOT is doing something to alleviate traffic on GA 400 north of the I-285. I see no problem with express lanes in the main city and its suburbs. But my gut feelings is this project might not do the trick. 2)Yeah urbanists have to realize that unknown amount of people want a single family home instead of mid to high density housing. And it’s hard to incorporate metro rail into low density sprawling metropolitan area like Atlanta. 3)I wonder is this is the freeway revolt coming back to bite the Atlanta metropolitan area? Or zoning laws coming back to bite the Atlanta metropolitan area?

[@neox9369]

People are having less kids or no kids and the generations now and younger aren’t even having children. Not sure why they are building single homes as if this is a baby boom with nuclear families everywhere.

[@justinsayin3979]

Wrong city. It's not _the_ I-285.

[@zandin8290]

Great presentation and thank you for attempting to inform the people! Subscribed. 👍🏾

[@geardo3635]

I feel bad for Atlanta I visited in 1995 for a weekend, main problem I saw was where I75 and I85 merged, downtown traffic was a somewhat issue Now after 30 years and the growth I hear they have had, I wonder if traffic is as bad as NYC, probably not but must have closed the gap some

[@idriveastationwagon1534]

It’s really just the freeways like 75 and 85 and 285 that’s bad. Surface roads aren’t terrible (at least on a Saturday). DC is probably a good comparison to Atlanta.

[@geardo3635]

@@idriveastationwagon1534 I don't know about D.C. surface roads but I would say D.C. interstates are between NYC and Atlanta quality Last time I went through D.C., I entered by I-66 first time taking it, halfway heading East it became like bumper to bumper rush hour traffic sitting still a lot with small movements forward, repeat Took a long time for me to get through that on half of I-66 Then I got to I-495 beltway, hated that too Since then unless I have to do something in D.C., I look for routes that go around it, WAY around it

[@michaelmerck7576]

Its actually not that bad except for early morning and 5 o clock commutes

[@mikewhitley6769]

Mike I love this channel you put a great video together.

[@southkiddJ]

I felt like you were talking directly to some folks down there in GA😂 Someone’s gotta bring them to reality

[@cgilmo78]

This video is incrediable. Thank you for it. Shared on all platforms.

[@brooklyn560]

17:11 ill admit it. I mostly want Atlanta to Significantly improve its mass transit so that I have to deal with less traffic 😅

[@kayoticbushido]

interesting, I thought 400 was complete. Is there any chance of an outer loop? Something that is several miles outside of 285. Similar to inner loop 40 / 440 and outer loop 540 around Raleigh NC

[@nach8888]

i agree with everything said, most people won't accept that despite wanting more transit, they'd indirectly preffer a style of development that prioritize single family homes and sprawl, totally incompatible with transit

[@Vinny.X]

Except that people have lived in single family homes outside of Manhattan and have for generations driven to the train station to take the train into work.

[@Atrail_Mckinley4786]

​@Vinny.X Yes but not everyone does that, and driving is still the quicker and more convenient option.

[@Ray03595]

@@Atrail_Mckinley4786 In the Northeast? Its definitely is not. You sit in tons of traffic every morning going to work and even more going back if you drive in. Taking a train is far more convenient. Personally I cant imagine coming off a long day of work then needing to drive 1+ hour and be stuck around a bunch of people honking at me. My work day ends with me sleeping on the train for 20-30 minutes then a short 5 min drive home.

[@Atrail_Mckinley4786]

@Ray03595 There are literally people that do drive into nyc from the suburbs or into Manhattan from the outer boroughs. As he said, driving is often the more convenient and often faster option. There isn't traffic all day long, and trains run on a fixed route and timetable, so depending on where someone is going, driving will just be the faster option, and no amount of public transit will change that

[@zgdafzgdaf4264]

gDOT just replaced,the 285 400 interchange. They need to give construction a rest and let us 400 drivers enjoy a drive without construction. The 285 400 interchange took 8 years. Originally 4 years. It will take an extra 4 or 5 years for this. Btw for 6 billion they should be able to afford marta heavy rail. This was a thorough video and you did your research. Thanks.

[@user-ci9ri4fl5pBuckeyeChessie]

Yes, they should have built the outer perimetre.

[@DawgInDawsonville]

Maybe. Maybe not. I don't see the relevance of the outer perimeter in regards to a North/South highway leading out of Atlanta. One has nothing to do with the other.

[@user-ci9ri4fl5pBuckeyeChessie]

@@DawgInDawsonville It is relevant to the extent the highway network in the city does not have redundancies, that would help share the traffic loads. people in the norther suburbs could take the outer perimeter to I-575 to I-75 into the city as an alternate route. It should not always about widening verses offering alternative freeways to reduce the traffic on the fewer freeways.

[@DawgInDawsonville]

@user-ci9ri4fl5pBuckeyeChessie Hwy 53. Hwy 140. Hwy 20. Why do you need an outer perimeter to get from 75 to 575 and vice versa? I live by Hwy 400 and use all 3 of those with regularity. And I still fail to see what any of that (outer perimeter, 53, 140, 20) has to do with the video at hand.

[@CoachCris_]

Mike, so I live in the northern ATL suburbs in cobb but closer to 400 than I-75. You’re 100% correct, most people in this area won’t ride Marta regardless of it being cheaper or faster… for some of the reasons you said but also bc it doesn’t really go anywhere useful besides the airport. And to take it to the airport from sandy springs or even medical center is 45min to an hour and you’ve got to worry about your bags being stolen. For those that work downtown they also won’t take it bc it’s so hot here in the summer no one wants to get to the office all sweaty and the Marta stops downtown aren’t in the most convienent areas either. However, I know it’s an old topic that seems dead but would love you to do a video on it bc it would really help the traffic here, if we had an outer perimeter. For example a top beltway from i20 or 75 that passes thru the area between Marietta and Woodstock, Alpharetta and cumming, and meets up with I-85 in Gwinnett. I forgot the reasoning behind it being shot down but if the state does have the money and we know it would help traffic why not build a toll road similar to Maryland building the one from Rockville to I-95?

[@dusting1391]

It seems to me a lot of the north ATL suburbanites drastically overestimate travel time on MARTA even assuming you're stuck waiting the full 15 minutes for a train. I grew up in Suwanee and commuted to Georgia State University, I took MARTA every day because I didn't want to deal with the downtown connector or driving on ATL's surface streets even though GSU provided free parking for students, so I'm pretty familiar with how long the train takes. It's about 25 minutes from either Doraville or Dunwoody station to get to Five Points, plus a max of 15 minutes if you just missed a train. Medical Center of course will take a little less time since it's south of Dunwoody. To the airport from those stations, about 45-50 minutes, and even with the homeless that get on the trains I've never once been worried somebody was going to try and run off with my suitcase. Heck, I've seen exactly one purse grab in all the years I've taken MARTA, that was 12-14 years ago, and the dude did it on a crowded afternoon rush hour train and got tackled going out the door. Summer heat was never a problem for me, or at least not anymore than it would be for any suit that had to walk from the non-climate controlled parking garage into their office. It's just the way summers are here, you're sweating within minutes of leaving the AC. I don't ever recall the trains being so hot I was sweating, except after Falcons/Braves/Hawks/Thrashers games when the trains were packed with fans heading home. I agree though that much of MARTA's issue with ridership, aside the issues of frequency and northern suburb land-use basically precluding useful rail transit and requiring any trip downtown to include a mode shift from car to train, does come from the perception of being unsafe and being actually unpleasant to use due to homeless, people smoking/vaping on the train, people blasting music nobody else wants to listen to, the list goes on. MARTA does absolutely need to address those issues, though I also don't think many of the northern suburbanites would ever use MARTA even if it was frequent and a pleasant rider experience, simply because most of them live in a media bubble that makes out all US big cities to be the Bronx circa 1980 and they see MARTA as an extension of that. I think the best way forward for MARTA would actually be to cut down on a lot of their station parking and working with developers to build more apartments/townhomes/condos on those spaces instead.

[@davidjohnson156]

Someone send this to City Nerd, the end part might actually make him flustered.

[@zandin8290]

And JustBikes. He’ll enjoy the Houston comparison!

[@jeremyhamm4933]

As always, excellent video! I grew up in Metro Atlanta and lived there for a little over 50 years, the last 30 of those close to 400. Best of luck to all who are still there, because road construction for the next 6 years is going to be a mess.

[@suspiciousafternoon]

You covered this perfectly 👏👏 with data and facts.

[@EugeneRosenfeld]

Great video, especially the commentary about mass transit. Do you think something like Tesla's Cybercab or Robovan could be a happier medium between everyone driving solo and mass transit?

[@ka7583]

Thank you for laying down the reality check to people who think transit is the only solution to traffic. Transit works in very high population densities, there’s only one New York City in America.

[@Bronx718]

Excellent information and real conversation about the northern suburbs.

[@atillerman5843]

Your commentary was RIGHT ON. I grew up in Pittsburgh of the 60s, they still had an extensive private streetcar system until the county took it over in 1964 and immediately abandoned all but a couple of south hills routes that were on private right of way. When downtown had the most corporate headquarters between NYC and Chicago the streetcars and LRV were heavily used, but after most of those companies (including Fortune 500 companies like Heinz, US Steel, Mellon Bank, numerous steel companies, IBM, Westinghouse etc merged or went out of business, and department stores like Macy's (twice) Saks 5th Av, Lord and Taylor, shut down their downtown locations, there is no reason to shop there. Only going to events at the 2 stadiums on the Northside the arena in the nearby "hill district" and downtown Convention center see use of the busses and LRVs as a private (once mob affiliated) owner runs virtually all the parking garages downtown and parking is still expensive. I moved to Norfolk Va in 1978 and about a decade ago, the country was in a frenzy to build LRV routes, the city spent $400 million to build a 7 mile "starter line" from downtown east to the Va. beach line. As it was being planned (originally it was to cost only $200 M) neighboring cities of Va. Beach (which was on the former NS freight line the cities bought to build the LRV line on) Chesapeake and even Portsmouth (whch would have required an expensive high rise bridge or tunnel to access it, After being a year behind schedule and costing 2x it's original estimate all three cities backed off, Va. Beach was forced to hold a referendum which the opposition complained that a light rail line to the oceanfront would "bring those people from Norfolk (blacks from the projects)" into Va. Beach, and it was defeated, and the city had to pay the state back the $40M they paid NS for the right of way to extend the LRV route. Which the public now wants made into a "rail trail". After Covid enthusiasm for any extensions of the line disappeared and it starts in an interstate created office / motel park, passes another office park, goes over an expansive tidal creek, where it stops at Norfolk State U. (and HBCU), and passes our baseball park/Antrak station, and downtown stops at City Hall, a now defunct mall, and ends at the medical center west of downtown. It serves almost NO residential areas as it was expected that Va. Beach would be providing the passengers when they built out their 12 miles. We also had a Republican GOvernor (McDonald) who was convicted of taking bribes after he left office, who sold our 2 tunnels to Portsmouth from Norfolk to a private company for 70 years and build a twin at the midtown Tunnel which was 2 way, and started at a $2 a trip toll, with a 3% a year automatic increase in rates. Rates now are over $3 and can top out at !$10 a trip eventually. These tolls have made Portsmouth an "island" as drivers who don't need to go there for business no longer go there for movies, restaurants, festivals etc. A third high rise bridge is also privately owned by another company that built it from scratch when the 75 YO drawbridge owned by the city of Chesapeake had to be demolished and the city was not going to replace it so the Jordan Bridge was built with totally private funds to Portsmouth, leaving only US 17 from the south as a FREE way into the city but a half hour detour to miss the tolls. McDonald also attempted to get a private toll road built from Suffolk along current US 460 to Petersburg, a 90 mlle road that was supposed to carry port traffic to I 85/95. After spending a quarter billion of tax payer money we found out the Corps of Engineers was NEVER going to approve the road going through the swamps er fragile wetlands US 460 crosses. Then he privatized the maintanence/ snow removal (of which we have little of here) on I 64/264 and eliminating all the VDOT jobs that used to do that job. As their 5 year contract was coming up for renewal, they did less and less maintanence until the interstates got so bad that lines of cars were on the side of the roads where they hit huge holes that ruined their wheels and tires and cost VDOT tens of thousands as they were sued for the poor condition of the poorly maintained roads. It was SO BAD, that VDOT had to prematurely cancel the contract and on an emergency basis repave the entire system in Norfolk and jack hammer out broken sections of concrete and replace entire slabs. We forget that Republicans reward their donors with these PPP contracts that provide them with taxpayer funds and profits (to donate to future campaigns) while Democrats prefer to keep government functions under the control of the voters and government.

[@forevernever1883]

Just a quick reply about the residents of Virginia Beach worrying about the "wrong people" coming to their neighborhoods if the Tide LRT was built to the oceanfront. They're actually dumber than you think, because what they obviously failed to realize is that the HRT buses ALREADY goes there anyway 😅😂 and has been going there for well over 30 years.

[@adamlyman8293]

Very very good points made!! Great content!

[@KierStarmer]

Insightful vid as always

[@henrycoccoli7184]

11:08 I think a lot of people in the comments have the wrong idea about what transit actually does. Transit does not solve traffic. Only land use will solve traffic. The point of building transit is to encourage better land use around that corridor. The northern segment of thr MARTA red line sees poor ridership because it runs parallel to the highway and is surrounded by low density, thus failing its entire purpose as a transit service. Your point about land use being already terrible is true, but it makes the assumption that what is already built is permanent, which isn't true. I saw a strip mall in Roswell get redeveloped into a mixed use (albeit luxury) development, adding much-needed density. Spot-on with the point about voting. My point earleir about redevelopment is meaningless if people dont vote for zoning reform. Like you mentioned with the Katy freeway, building more highway lanes makes traffic worse. There are no exceptions. This is a well-documented phenomenon that traffic engineere simply ignore because they're paid to build highways, they're not paid to not build highways. Development is happening in those areas because the highways allow longer commutes. The more highways are built, the easier it will be to commute (temporarily), and development will sprawl even further. This project will actively harm the Atlanta area. A hard pill to swallow is that as long as most Atlanta residents are commuting long distances to work (10+ miles), traffic will always be terrible. Even with transit, sustaining long commutes on a large scale is simply impossible. The only true way to fix traffic is a societal shift towards living closer to where you work, which I can't see happening here any time soon. If the suburbs of Atlanta like Sandy Springs, Roswell, Alpharetta, etc. invest in building out downtowns, restructuring their development into proper neighborhoods, and building high-frequency transit to connect each other, they will function like small cities, and we will be one step closer to fixing traffic. Read the book Suburban Nation for more on that concept.

[@LinkWoofWoof]

Really good video, and spot-on take. We lived in Forsyth County for 25 years, trying to get to work in downtown, or the airport was a nightmare and exercise in frustration. Moved to Florida panhandle 4 years ago and DO NOT miss Atlanta at all. Thanks for the video.

[@michaelmcguire9749]

Well said, Mike. I lived not far from the proposed North Fulton Expressway (GA 400) growing up. I doubted it would be built but it was, years later. The lack of political will in Atlanta to build the rest of the missing freeways to provide a second north-south route thru the city puts too much pressure on I-85/75. You are so right in that if you don't build it early, building it later will be more difficult and more expensive. Your myth-busting is also welcome. With the misnamed I-4 Ultimate in Orlando, the fare structure does not change (cheap!) and I seldom see it with much traffic. Now if these lanes were extended to Volusia County in the east, and past US 27 in the west, the income would skyrocket as the congestion is much worse outside the downtown.

[@Unb3arablePain]

Yeah it's funny my sister lives in a McMansion in Forsyth county and 400 is a nightmare already, and she wonders why I won't move to ATL 😅 Thanks for bringing up the disastrous Toll Lanes on I-77 as a CLT native, the public wasn't even given an option to vote for it and it's been a disaster. What's worse is the state already had a plan to expand to 4 lanes each direction over a decade ago AND the money to support it but took the corrupt/easy route instead.

[@stephenedwardsnyc]

In the late 2000s Charlotte got the lion's share of project funding. The huge, impressive I-485 completion and I-85 being widened to 8 lanes all the way to Lexington, NC. All of that funding for those huge improvements meant I-77 would have to wait for 20 years while the rest of the state's tremendous needs were funded. Charlotte has by far the biggest and nicest freeways. Raleigh's 540 outer-loop is 60% tolled, and is now $8-11 per trip with no free lanes or alternative route. No complaints in Raleigh though which gets shortchanged being fair to the rest of the state.

[@refuztosay9454]

Great job. Thanks for putting the effort in to make this content.

[@scpatl4now]

This crap wears me the hell out. Georgia has a surplus because they don't want to pay for the things people in the state need. Medicaid expansion...no, Money for MARTA...no. It seems like MARTA is going all in on BRT, we will see if they can adhere to the BRT standard and not just make it a glorified bus. It seems like it should have more stops though. I wonder how any non compete would affect BRT. If the BRT is utilized, are they allowed to increase frequency?

[@JW3BALT]

That surplus needs to in part fun inner city MARTA expansions. Ridiculous that we have the money to fund amazing expansions and we don’t.

[@stephenedwardsnyc]

@@JW3BALT Ridership isn't great these days with uber and rideshare. The fare revenue requires ten of millions every year from our 1.5% sales tax. Every citizen of fulton/dekalb contributes $300+ a year for marta to operate. The rest of Georgia's tax dollars can't pay for intown Atlanta transit.

[@Michael-uc2pn]

Hmmm it's almost like metro Atlanta should be biting the bullet and paying for public transit expansion since they're the only ones who need it, but we don't want to pay for it either. I say this as someone who lives in Metro Atlanta. We can't expect people in rural counties all over Georgia to support the state paying for transit in Atlanta if WE don't want to pay for it ourselves.

[@scpatl4now]

@@Michael-uc2pn If you take that position then why should I as an Atlanta resident pay for some rural road or upgraded road I will never use? Atlanta currently has extra sales tax for the More MARTA tax that is used for transit, and now with the election over, federal funds for transit are going to dry up, so the state is going to be forced to contribute.

[@Michael-uc2pn]

​​@@scpatl4nowthe CITY of Atlanta does have a tax yes, but every time a ballot initiative comes up in the surrounding counties (METRO Atlanta) where transit would make the most impact on Atlanta traffic, it gets shot down. If transit ends at the perimeter, it's not going to ever be a viable solution to traffic. My point is if even the counties that need the transit the most won't support it, you can't expect the state as a whole to support it. I can see an argument for state spending on Atlanta area public transit for economic reasons, but when suburbs don't even support it, it's a hard argument to make. And as far as roads are concerned, we have roads all over the state that are funded by a mix of federal, state, and local spending, so there's a more fair distribution of the spending and who is responsible for it. There are roads in Atlanta too, but there is never realistically going to be public transit in random rural towns, so there is no reason to expect them to support spending on it.

[@MsCruzan]

Thank you so much for this video and for validating a lot of my thoughts on the horrible traffic in the ATL area. I had no idea that only 12% of the people were voting but it explains a lot about what is going on here. ATL metro is in a very chicken and egg situation. I would use public transit if it were more far reaching but you need the revenue from riders as an argument for expanding it. You killed my dream of anything being done and I believe you are correct about what to do. Yes, I want a walkable area, the ability to bike, and public transit so this area is not for me. So I will now just look at places that already have that style of living in place. Again, thank you for a great video.

[@JW3BALT]

The wild part is if Kemp gave just 50% of one years surplus to MARTA, we could build 25-35 miles of new inner city heavy rail. I agree with Mike that people reap what they vote or don’t vote for and if you buy a house in Alpharetta and bitch about traffic, you’re a special kind of person. I bought a tiny ass house near the gold line so I could live a car lite life and I’m happy. I have a smaller home and a larger social circle as a result of walkability in my neighborhood. Transit works in dense areas with grid streets. Georgia as a state as never funded MARTA, that needs to change.

[@leandersearle5094]

I mean, the end goal of urbanism should be to raise demand for transit to the point where there are multiple private operators clamoring for lines with no more subsidy than tax write-offs. But until that point, more funding for transit is okay.

[@stephenedwardsnyc]

Say 1 year surplus in GA is $3-4 Billion (this isn't the norm, usually much less if any surplus) half of that might be $2 billion. That would build maybe 1 mile of new heavy rail, 25-35 miles of inner city rail won't every be built in any US city because no one could afford $50-$100 billion plus it would take 30-50 years.

[@JW3BALT]

@@stephenedwardsnyc it’s if 16 billion? And we could build a lot more than 1 mile with 8 billion.

[@stephenedwardsnyc]

@@JW3BALT If that is one years' surplus, wow. But it's likely a rare windfall. Remember CA's recent $80 B surplus suddenly became a $25 B shortfall. ----$8 billion could probably build one long new heavy rail line to Gwinnett or Cobb.

[@mikebuglione32]

I live in north Cobb county, drive all over Atlanta daily. You are spot on with so many points. Great video.

[@smokeybandit9760]

I kinda agree with you that building more mass transit isn't the magic solution. I think it has more to do with zoning laws. Most zoning laws state that you can't build residential and commercial buildings in the same area. These laws even promote the construction of more single-family homes because of this reason. This results in more suburban sprawl and increased distances from popular travel destinations that people go to. If we changed and updated the zoning laws to promote more mixed-use communities and denser neighborhoods, then that is how you truly incentivize the use and construction of mass transit. For example, in Knoxville, TN, they updated the zoning laws a few years ago and the transformation on some of the main streets like Cumberland near the University has become less car-dependent. They narrowed the width of the road so that the speed of cars was reduced, built more sidewalks, and promoted more mixed-use zoning. This has resulted in more apartments being built with businesses being located at the ground level of these buildings. Plus, instead of having parking lots occupying valuable lots, these apartments have parking underground or at the ground level which keeps the existing parking while also building residential and commercial spaces on top. Examples like Knoxville can show people that you can promote more pedestrian-friendly areas while also allowing people to use cars. This also results in less car dependency which can increase the demand for mass transit. I'm not saying that this is the true magic solution, I'm just putting this out there as a potential solution.

Living in Alpharetta, there's a bus stop very near my home. If I'm going to the airport, I find it fairly convenient to walk to the bus and ride it to the North Springs station, switch to train and take it all the way to the airport. It costs me $2.50 and it keeps my heart rate low as I'm not dealing with 50 insane lane changes cutting me off on the trek down 400, 85, and 75. That said, the bus and transfer adds a legit 45-60 minutes to the trip. I'm okay with it, but most would not be. I'm also fine with it if going to a Hawks or Falcons game. I personally wouldn't mind the train being extended to the Windward P&R with stops at North Point Mall and Old Milton (Avalon). I agree with others that the way you make that work is, shocker, enforce the law. You have to get rid of the troublemakers on the train. Drugs, panhandling, general crazy behavior needs enforced against. I tend to just avoid 400 if at all possible. I'll spend the extra 20 minutes on GA-9 if I'm wanting to go to Sandy Springs or Dunwoody. Less crazy drivers and less chance of a total shutdown due to a crash. And since Alpharetta has 99% of what I want, I rarely bother leaving. Living someplace you want to spend the vast majority of your time is a great suggestion.

[@clark1066]

Hearing that something went to the HIGHEST bidder is an incredibly nice thing to hear.

[@nicholaseckhart7900]

Personally, I think the best future of public transit is a complicated mix of busses, trains, mini-buses, and driverless taxis. It would require an app to navigate though and have the vehicles synced to the app to calculate the best way from point a to b. The way the outer suburbs in American cities are set up, most trips here would most likely be done with driverless taxi or mini- buses that don't follow a set route. Say you are going from your house to the mall, either a driverless taxi would come pick you up and take you straight to the destination or a mini-bus that functions similar to a larger uber pool would take you there. Say you are going from the suburbs to a game in the stadium downtown. You might be picked up by the driverless taxi or a mini-bus then driven to nearby large bus or train station that takes you downtown. If traffic isn't that bad or multiple people in your area are heading to the same area, the driverless taxi or mini-bus could take you directly where you want to go. Which in the case of an event downtown, a mini-bus could be ideal as there could be other people in your neighborhood or along the way that also want to go to the same event or another nearby in downtown. Under this system, most routes, except rapid transit lines would be dynamic. The main train and bus lines would run with regular frequent service along set lines. The taxis and mini-buses mainly would follow demand driven routes from people putting in requests on the app to go from one place to another. They could also follow set routes that don't see as many riders. I think cities should not just sit by while Uber takes over this market and actively buy these smaller buses (that by the way don't require CDLs) and invest in a fleet of driverless taxis themselves so there would be a functional suburban public transit system that would connect with the more urban public transit system.

[@4517onlyglory]

Kemp should be pushed to build the outer loop......

[@docdawg15]

Your last comment about the Outer Perimeter is spot on! That project should have been built when the chance existed. It would now be impossible to do it.

[@maroon9273]

Since Atlanta is developing at a fast rate. Any land for a outer beltway will cause revolts.

[@robrob7011]

Hi Mike NJ here

[@MileageMike485]

👋

[@zacharybravo8201]

Awesome video. Every time I have this conversation with people (Cough cough in Gwinnett), I always ask them how can you convince Suburban families to stop using the cars they have ***bought with their own money*** and pay money to be on a bus with 30-50 other people going down to Atlanta. I believe public transit is our future, but profit in this country and in this world will always supersede what's best for society.

[@elijah_coursey_84]

You are spot on about "if you build it they will come" not being true in practice. "Induced demand" is in the same category. The problem is that it is not that simple. Induced demand can be true in some instances, but it has to be looked at case by case. I can understand not widening freeways that are already 8-10 lanes wide, but we shouldn't oppose all road expansion projects because of "induced demand". In my area (Boise, Idaho), a new north-south freeway is being built to relieve congestion on other north-south roads in the area. Some may say it will cause more suburban sprawl in the surrounding farmland, but the reality is that farmland will eventually be developed with or without the new freeway. Many people have been moving here and will continue to move here regardless of what gets built. I'd much rather build a new freeway now than wait until it is too late.

[@stephenedwardsnyc]

You are exactly right. When states beg for jobs and industry to relocate, you have to add capacity to the mobility system that keeps up with a growing population. Atlanta has tripled in population since the early 90s. 7 million residents need food, clothing, construction materials and amazon package deliveries which all burdens the existing road network, and that chips away at quality of life for everyone. Induced demand can be a thing in certain situations, but fast growing metros need significant added capacity for everyone's sake.

[@steve-4045]

I live in northern Mecklenburg County and use the I-77 tolls lanes occasionally. It is hard to evaluate the effect because of the COVID shutdown. Even as things have come back, I don’t think the traffic problem is as bad as it was before the project. We still have traffic jams at many of the same spots, but we have the option not to be part of them. We have express bus service into Charlotte, and the buses can use the express lanes and not be stuck in traffic. The bus service runs only during rush hours and not at all on Saturdays, so you can’t take it into town for a concert or show and come back that night. We’ve been planning on commuter rail for years, but state and federal governments have been blocking it. They won’t even let us vote to add more sales tax to fund it. We are buying the tracks from Norfolk Southern in hopes it gets going. If it gets built, I’m likely to be too old to be comfortable heading into town on foot by then. I do enjoy an occasional day trip on the express bus in nice weather. I’m afraid that the commuter rail will have the same limited hours as the bus, so limited usefulness for us retirees. Since I’m rarely driving on I-77 at peak times, the tolls lanes don’t cost me a lot. I take them sometimes even when traffic is not that bad. Even moderate traffic seems to travel in clumps. So in the regular lanes, you speed up and then slow down behind the next clump. On the toll lanes, you zip right past all that. You may not get there that much quicker, but you arrive more relaxed. I don’t notice the occasional $20 charge on my credit card to replenish my balance for the tolls. If I’m coming off the Brookshire Freeway heading home, I take the express lane exit. Whatever it costs is worth it for the convenience and I think safety.

[@xa0wnerx]

77 from charlotte to Huntersville traffic is absolute ass during rush hour. And the toll prices are insane for anyone using it on a daily basis at peak times. Most people don’t use them so you end up having an 8 line highway with 4 of them being used at 5% capacity

[@steve-4045]

@ It’s a choice. You can sit in the traffic or you can pay a toll. If you are traveling at commuting hours, you can ride free in the toll lanes if you have two passengers. For a small amount of money you can ride in the toll lanes in the express bus. Before the pandemic I used to attend photography workshops each fall at the Convention Center. I’d take the bus into town in the morning, and then back home in the evening. It worked great. Usually there were quite a few well dressed business folks heading in. It was not the stereotype that racist folks have about bus riders. Occasionally, I’d just spend a day in town going to museums and such. I had a great time.

[@steve-4045]

@ Toll lanes don’t really cut down on congestion. They just let you decide whether to be part of it. It would have made more sense to build the Red Line commuter rail first. But the Bush transportation department wouldn’t help fund it. Toll lanes was their idea of mass transit. The politics of the changing leadership of Norfolk Southern meant that the Red Line wouldn’t be done anyway. The current NC legislature is blocking our voting an additional transit tax so it may never happen even now that the use of the tracks seems to have been worked out. Some development along the corridor has continued anyway.

[@DC.402]

02:06 not going to lie when there's no cops around i do 90+ on 400

[@preeyakumari-i2q]

This is way traffic deaths and accidents are taken for granted in Georgia

[@DC.402]

​@preeyakumari-i2q yea that and left lane hogs like get out the way and let people pass

[@Ethyro]

You need more pedestrian-friendly infrastructure before mass public transit