Why God Chooses Whom He Chooses: Romans 9:9-13, Part 2

Look at the Book
Teacher: John Piper
Playlist: • Look at the Book

[@franciscor4078]

I have had three or possibly more supernatural GOD events in my life. The first occurred during a summer when I was very young and I was speaking to my older brother about God. My brother who can not recall the event ran off and yelled at me to run inside our house. I did not run after him but was frozen as I sensed that there was a large glowing object in my peripheral vision. For some reason, I stayed and as far as I can remember I looked into the a bright circular object. I can not tell you exactly what I saw but I do recall the event and my brother does not. I was innocent at that age and I loved talking about GOD. The second event occurred when my math teacher died suddenly of a heart attack. I felt sad for him and began to pray near my bedroom window. In prayer, I felt an invisible hand on top of my head that touched me through the glass window. I freaked out and ran out of my room. Lastly, at age 16 due to an operation on my leg it left me with a severe pain. One day, the pain was very severe that again I prayed to God with my all my heart to take away that awful pain. Suddenly, a small invisible hand touched my right side of my hip and before I knew it my pain was gone. This is my testimony. I keep these events forever etched in my heart. I hope this helps someone.

[@1984isHereNow]

I don't understand God, but that's a good thing, if I could He wouldn't be much of a God, look at the way He dealt with Pharoah, look at how He deals with humanity, I do not have the foggiest how He thinks/works, His ways are so far above mine and I like it that way, I simply put my complete trust in Him and that He works for the good of all those whom love Him no matter what is going on in our lives. We cling to Him for we are nowt without Him and anything good we accomplish is through Him. God is sovereign and can't be put in a box, not even a very big box.

[@GlitchmanOmega1]

This logic is like "A killer murders a baby" we will never understand how the killers mind works its so above ours. It's not that complex. From a position of a God. Nothing has any value or matter. If we're a mere cockroach to him. He can do whatever he wants. Unfair or not. What are we going to do?

[@Android-ds9ie]

@@GlitchmanOmega1 f*** God

[@flower8669]

@@Android-ds9ie don't curse god like that

[@Android-ds9ie]

@@flower8669 what's wrong

[@davidochieng2975]

@@flower8669 The good of God is that he is slow to anger, he would act immediately. He remembers that humans are just dust(Psalm 103:8-11)

[@KeithThompson52]

Amen, very good study.

[@GTX1123]

I believe that God's OMNISCIENCE is the key to understanding this issue. Because God knows what makes every person "tick" He is able to engineer circumstances in such a way that He gets a desired end result while never once violating a person's will. He can thread this needle zen-tillion times because in His Omniscience, God already knows the end from the beginning and how each person, persons, nation etc will choose given any set of circumstances. WOW...

[@JasonRussoMetal]

It took me a long time to embrace the total sovereignty of God. I battled God for at least a year giving the very argument that Paul addresses in this chapter (14-15). I would get angry at the idea that Jesus didn't die for every single human being that ever lived and ever will live. I cried out how unfair and like some of the comments here think those who thought this were very wrong as well. I mean.. how could God not give everyone a chance? that wouldn't be just. I was very comfortable with a God that looks down time and sees that we say yes, and then bases his election and predestination on that. I then realized that if this were true that would mean salvation would be dependent on the will of man and not the will of God. The Bible teaches the complete opposite all over the place from the OT to the New. We simply cannot walk away from scripture thinking that Jesus determines who His sheep are based on our free will choice. It's simply not there. For those who have commented here against this I understand the feelings of 'this can't be!" but I pray the Lord opens your eyes and ears to the truth that is clearly taught here in Romans 9. This is what Paul is teaching and we do have the freedom to choose to accept this truth or continue to deny it making God out to be something we want Him to be rather than the God of scripture.

[@GlitchmanOmega1]

So God doesn't care for his creations. Or at least most if "Few will be saved"

[@JasonRussoMetal]

@@GlitchmanOmega1 I would just encourage you to read Romans 9 because Paul answers your question. The only answer I can give you is God creates some vessels for wrath and some vessels for Mercy. All for His glory. everything..., even the vessels of wrath He uses (He used Pharaoh see below). I recognize even for many professing Christians this is a hard pill to swallow. I don't embrace this because of pride but because for me I simply have to stay true to God's Word not try to make God into something I'm comfortable with. God bless Romans 9:14-15 14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! 15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.” Romans 9:17 For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.” 18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens

[@GlitchmanOmega1]

@@JasonRussoMetal I never said if he was righteous or not. I simply said that he cares for some beings and doesn't for others. I still think Calvinists are wrong. But with this logic God can kill all of us and it would be "just" because he owns everything. But just because you can doesn't mean you should. It makes him insensitive to the existence of the other beings used for his "wrath" And if it's all for his "Glory" (The way we see him). He simply killed them for his ego. If anything this assumes God is insecure about how we see him "Oh no the humans see me as weak for giving them a choice. Better destroy someone so they see the power I have".

[@GlitchmanOmega1]

@@JasonRussoMetal Also the "hardening of the pharaoh" Is a mistranslation. kzbin.info/www/bejne/m4Szq6WYnp6Zhs0

[@JasonRussoMetal]

@@GlitchmanOmega1 All your objections Paul addresses here in Romans 9. I don't have any other words better than what Paul says. You're saying 'if He was that way it would be unrighteous' according to your understanding, & feelings. Everything you're feeling and expressing I used to feel and was at war with God convincing myself He chose us based on our free will choice to say yes. But it's not true. If you want to convince me that this is true then you will have to give me an exegesis of Romans 9 that says otherwise. If you can't then I want to encourage you to pray on this and keep reading, learning and studying His Word and I will too. But I tell you that once you discover that yes "we all deserve death and destruction" as the starting point and realize it's amazing He saves any of us you will see the Glorious doctrines of grace.

[@calvinpeterson9581]

If one were to take the Calvinist claim seriously, than the only option that is left is equal ultimacy. For if God is unconditionally electing Jacob apart from anything including faith than, he is damning Esau apart from anything including sin.

[@JackKnifedJuggernautt]

The point is that both were guilty but he chose one

[@calvinpeterson9581]

@@JackKnifedJuggernautt though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad-in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls- Romans 9:11 Even though equal ultimacy is not the point for what I stated was incorrect, but rather what I meant was Esau would also be damned apart from sinning. In other words if election is unconditional in the case of Jacob, than damnation would also have to be unconditional in the case of Esau. For scripture doesn't say he hated Esau, conditionally for his sin. But the Calvinist presupposition is incorrect for in this verse they miss the original meaning of the passage. They also leave out the whole argument of Romans. The point of "had done nothing good or bad" refers to their works. In which faith is always contrasted with works in the book of Romans. So election is not based upon adherence of the law, works, or even ethnicity. Rather as Romans 10 teaches it is based upon faith. In Calvinism they add faith as works in this passage, yet Romans 9:11 clearly says not of works. It's simply eisegesis of the text to exclude faith from the context of this passage in the theme of Romans

[@JackKnifedJuggernautt]

@@calvinpeterson9581 Yea im not exactly sure how election works completely but I suppose Calvinism gives the most full explanation of it. Where others that don’t agree with Calvinism can’t really fully explain predestination they just have to trust that both free will and sovereignty can co exist. Which I think is perfectly reasonably to assume.

[@robseabrook712]

Hating one? Favoring the other? ......even allowing Jacob to be a deceiver with his mother to deceive the father...considering God gives him the blessings....if thats good then what is evil? If any of us did so or if any other religion had a god that did so you would say it was evil......What did Esau do to deserve such treachery?

[@evanu6579]

Rob Seabrook Esau wasn’t chosen to be damned. He may have been saved. This teacher doesn’t speak truth. Rest assured that God is just. Blessings

[@queenofthesouth1866]

Esau is your kind and JACOB is black. Israelites are black. Esau hunted and hunts the children of Israel. Get it?

[@torianmcneill3794]

God is still loving that scripture means He loved Edom less we still have to love everyone the way God loves us it's not too late to repent Esau repented that means Esau couldn't get blessings people take those scripture the wrong way

[@juggernaut4898]

Excuxes i don't understand God. He's not all perfect okay

[@frankielee77]

John Calvin distorted interpretation of scriptures,somehow Piper absorbed it.John Calvin slandered God,murdered Servetus,wrote tons of blasphemies against God, so that we should see,somehow these Calvinists just refuse to see.All of must choose God,for God who chose us is never final;our choice is final.Human had Sovereign Will.

[@josiecarr989]

I'm not sure that it's god that calls the elect. Those that call god are the elect because the "h" in "him" is in little caps, not a capital as in "Him" which would then refer to God?

[@josiecarr989]

I hope so anyway because He didn't come to me I "called" Him. Unless I called Him because He worked in me to show me He was real and how to call?

[@chipsmydog]

The "h" in the objective pronoun "him" is usually lower case in the KJV, unfortunately. In any case, context is always the priority in any endeavor to understand writing, or listening to oration. CONTEXT is vital for understanding the author's intent. The bigger issue to resolve is exactly what effect the Fall had on humankind. Paul says in Ephesians that we are dead in sin, and without hope. Jesus in John 6 says that no one can come to Him unless the Father intervenes. At this point the agenda for self lovers kicks in and rejects anything that challenges their man centered doctrine. If that is you, you would be in the majority of supposed Christians.

[@CulusMagnus]

raro adeo risi

[@frankielee5623]

God chooses?The scriptures told us,that our Choice,our Choosing...our sovereign Choice matter to God.God wants us to Choose Him.For God already made His Choice.Now what matters is all about our Choosing,not His anymore.For He had spoken.God had made His Choice.God choose all of us to be saved.

[@claudiafreiman9782]

I don't like these discussions. However, Frankie God does choose who He wants. That is through out the Bible. Man cannot come to God, but God does come to man. We are all born into sin and could not choose God even if we had that thought. We are corrupt from inception and in us there is no good and certainly no salvation. Only God saves.

[@chipsmydog]

That's right, Claudia. These discussions are about the nature of God; the definition of God. They put man in his proper position/ relation to God. Carnal, fallen, narcissists despise the idea of their delusional power over God being exposed for the lie that it is.

[@trewmuzik]

Claudia is correct that this is a very touchy subject with some. Rather than try to beat you with passages in the Bible that support what Pastor Piper is saying I would just like to say this. Be careful not to allow your preconceived ideas to be a lens through which you read scripture. Keep searching, praying and reading God's word. Philippians 1:6. God bless you my brother!

[@Android-ds9ie]

@@trewmuzik but no one asked God to create humans as sinful

[@trewmuzik]

@@Android-ds9ie Humans were not created for sin, but quite the contrary. Sin exists when we do not obey God's law. So, you're statement is illogical.

[@TheNightWatcher1385]

This is just so weak. Paul does not answer the objection to election in any way. His response essentially boils down to, “too bad, so sad. Get over it.” How wise and insightful! So there’s absolutely no hope as we’re all at the mercy of an immortal sociopath. Fantastic!

[@andrewloner8294]

the bible is for isrealites common sense white people smart they read Shakespeare so they understand the bible cut it out with the lies tired of lies and king James was black he was a israelite that's why the bible kjv is in eglish for his people's who lost their language during slavery and my ancestors broke the covenant with God that's why slavery started