Why God created man even though He knew he would fall? | Fr. Athanasios Mytilinaios

[@otelders]

🔔Subscribe for new videos every week: tinyurl.com/subscribe-otelders This video has English and Romanian subtitles. Press the CC button to switch them on or off. Watch this quick-guide on how to turn on captions on your mobile device: kzbin.info/www/bejne/n5ealniCqsaMqqs Read the full English transcript of this video on our website: otelders.org/questions-and-answers-orthodox-christian/why-god-created-man-even-though-he-knew-he-would-fall-fr-athanasios-mytilinaios

[@ivygarcia9525]

Glory to God! Praise Him Who has made all things new! Let us honor and worship Him alone, as we walk in newness of life! 🙏☦️

[@otelders]

Amen!

[@mrsnkg7904]

Glory to God. How clearly & concisely put. The explanation for so many who suffer from the apparent meaningless of life - addictions, depression, various psychological issues...Thank you for your hard work on this channel. Lord Jesus Christ Son of God have mercy on me a sinner.

[@olgaath1511]

God has given us freedom, if He had created us like robots, to always choose what is good and just, He would have deprived us of our freedom of choice. God's wisdom is perfect while ours is totally imperfect! Δόξα τω Θεώ πάντων ένεκεν!

[@josephzammit8483]

Glory and Praise be to God! kzbin.info/www/bejne/m2XKYaWee7N2nJo

[@josethottumkal]

This is a beautiful teaching. The depth of understanding is amazing. I love listening to this channel though not "Orthodox" myself, I am drawn to the teaching of the Fathers. Their light shines surely in a dark place. καὶ τὸ φῶς ἐν τῇ σκοτίᾳ φαίνει, καὶ ἡ σκοτία αὐτὸ οὐ κατέλαβεν

[@devonbradley4372]

And the light shines in the darkness and the darkness cannot comprehend it. What a beautiful piece of scripture. Amen.

[@jollyabraham1426]

Praise the Lord. amen

[@iliesculiliana5846]

EVERYTHING OUR GOD DOES HAS MEANING AND PURPOSE.ENCOURAGING MESSAGE.DEEPLY APPRECIATEPRAISE THE LORD.HALLELUYAH

[@anjalibettan8390]

Praise the lord.Amen🙏

[@josethottumkal]

Are you from India Anjali?

[@emiliadrasovean8393]

Rugativă .cu lacrimi vă rog.pentru soțul meu IOAN. in comă pe patul de spital. de 10 săptămâni. Pomeniti-l in rugaciunile voastre. Doamne miluieste pe robii tăi

[@richruggiero750]

Wonderful!

[@SlavaBogu7]

Amen Amen Amen.

[@JoseTorres-np2nk]

Happy Sunday, are you going to post more reflections by Archimandrite Athanasius Milineos?

[@matronamilkasavusauna1365]

☦ Efcharisto, elder Athanasios. ☦ "⁵¹Behold, i shew you a mystery: we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be Changed. ⁵²in a moment, in a twinkling of an eye, at the last Trump: for the Trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorrubtible, and we shall be chainged." [ 1. Kor. 15:51-52. ] [[ 1. Kor. 15:52 is written even to Finland's upper west coast's municipality Haukipudas' Lutherianic Christian 1700's built church's belfry's wall❗]] [[[ verily, this world has been having it's last Trump!!!!! ]]]

[@cupocity303]

Contradicted himself in the first minute of the vid: God knew the world would turn out the way he did. The very next sentence: God had other plans.

[@freedfromdesire466]

nowhere in the vid does he say what you are saying. maybe your english is bad, but if you cant read the translation i would say your eyesight is just as bad!

[@sfappetrupavelandrei]

I disagree with what it is told here. From what I know the "imperfection" of this world is not because God created it like this but as a consequence of sin. This world was perfect and it is connected with us so when we sinned, also this world suffered the consequences of sin. I think that the idea that God created an imperfect world from the start is an heresy. God is perfect and everything He created is perfect as it is said in Genesis ("God saw that everything was good", Genesis, chapter 1, verses 4, 8, 12, 18,...).

[@matronamilkasavusauna1365]

i also consider, that it is the mankind, that delusion-create this fallen valley of sorrows. But Holy Triune God sent His Rescue here; to this darkmurky, satan's worshiping humankind 😿 . 😔 .

[@elainapoochie2734]

I don't think this is what the elder implies. Listen to the beginning of this video!

[@matronamilkasavusauna1365]

@@elainapoochie2734 Hvala Thank you 💛🧡 .

[@otelders]

@Saurian Probably he talks about the creation of man. Adam was created 'imperfect' in order to attain to the likeness with God for which he was created. Clement of Alexandria, The Stromata (Book VI, chap. 12): "By which consideration is solved the question propounded to us by the heretics, Whether Adam was created perfect or imperfect? Well, if imperfect, how could the work of a perfect God- above all, that work being man- be imperfect? And if perfect, how did he transgress the commandments? For they shall hear from us that he was not perfect in his creation, but adapted to the reception of virtue. For it is of great importance in regard to virtue to be made fit for its attainment. And it is intended that we should be saved by ourselves. This, then, is the nature of the soul, to move of itself. Then, as we are rational, and philosophy being rational, we have some affinity with it. Now an aptitude is a movement towards virtue, not virtue itself. All, then, as I said, are naturally constituted for the acquisition of virtue."

[@parists5455]

@Saurian he never said God created the world imperfect. He implies what you say and of course in all his teachings and hundreds of homilies says so, the freedom of the man to choose sin led the world in decay. But God knew all that beforehand so he allowed the world to take that form, He didn't make it that way from the start of course, there is a misunderstanding there. If you paid attention to what Father Athanasios said, he got a question why did God creat the world and man even if as God he knew that man would sin. The point is beforehand, He knew what would happen and how to recreate the world and man who chose sin and led the world to decay (the man, not God). If we accepted that God is creator of death and decay or anything bad, it is an heresy, blasphemy and contradicts to His absolute Goodness. Father Athanasios said that God allowed the world to take that form after the consequence of man's sin and already had the plan to regenerate. The will of God according to the fathers can have three forms which are hard to explain in English but I will try. 1)The will that happens according to His heart, κατ' ευδοκία , the initial plan and destination of the world in this case, which didn't happen, but God will lead the world there anyway through path number 2 as the absolute Wisdom and winner 2) the will that happens to somehow serve a bad situation created by man and help man to recover from that, κάτ' οικονομία, and 3) the "will"which actually isn't His will but the choice of His creatures like devil and men who stay in His unreturned denial, which is called God abandonment, κάτ'εγκατάλειψη. In a wider view and sense everything that happens is allowed by God to happen and in that case it is his will to allow it. But in the second and third case, it is not what He wanted initially. By respecting the freedom of His creatures He allows situations and in case of man has a plan for recreation while in the case of devil who didn't leave Him with any window of correcting himself, it is the abandonment (which the devil chose in fact). But in the words of our Lord, hell is prepared for the devil and those having followed him. "Prepared" is the word Jesus used. Why? By whom? Did that sound like a heresy to you too His words, when He clearly implied He prepared hell for the devil? Was that His will for devil? No! God would accept devil any time provided devil repented. But He knows this won't ever happen. So the hell He prepared is not His will in the sense we use the word, actually devil created his own hell but God prepared him what he chose, also in order to provide justice. God is Love but He also is Justice. Those two coexist, and it is s dangerous heresy to think He is only Love. This last remark is said by Saint Porfurios and all fathers. There is a modern trend in theology called post-fathers theology, which actually in the name of Love justifies every sin and is very dangerous too. The correct dogma and spiritual life has always been a tight difficult balance, as you know

[@JohnDoe-ed7vw]

But why did God create a person knowing that if given freedom will lead himself to hell? for that man (not for benefit of others), what did he gain from all this? don't tell me God gave him freedom argument because God already know the result of each man or "for the benefit of others" because that has no benefit to the person going to hell. anyone has a direct answer for this that makes sense?

[@cupocity303]

True. It would make more sense if these believers took away some of Gods power abilities as not being all-knowing, as that would make it more digestible. If God doesn't know everything and determinism is not a thing (from God's perspective) then sin is more plausible as we truly do have freedom of choice that God can't know ahead of time. This would also make the human experience more interesting from a creators perspective and possible reason of why he created mortal beings in the first place. To occupy his time and have some entertainment managing and watching over his creation.

[@freedfromdesire466]

what you are saying is suggesting that all men will be lead to hell with freedom which is false. noone said or suggested that. of course some will... but thats a far stretch from everyone will.... hope you understand the difference and it makes more sense.

[@freedfromdesire466]

please dont pay attention to the troll named cupocity...... by other things he is writing on this site its clearly his goal to mislead and on the boundaries or trolling and lying.

[@olivermcelwee374]

if you're willing to sacrifice your self to build heaven on earth you'll inherit heaven in death

[@SarahDawitt]

But then why did God create the world to be an imperfect one in the first place? That is what I don't understand.

[@otelders]

An answer would be that Adam was created 'imperfect' in order to attain to the likeness with God for which he was created. Clement of Alexandria, The Stromata (Book VI, chap. 12): "By which consideration is solved the question propounded to us by the heretics, Whether Adam was created perfect or imperfect? Well, if imperfect, how could the work of a perfect God- above all, that work being man- be imperfect? And if perfect, how did he transgress the commandments? For they shall hear from us that he was not perfect in his creation, but adapted to the reception of virtue. For it is of great importance in regard to virtue to be made fit for its attainment. And it is intended that we should be saved by ourselves. This, then, is the nature of the soul, to move of itself. Then, as we are rational, and philosophy being rational, we have some affinity with it. Now an aptitude is a movement towards virtue, not virtue itself. All, then, as I said, are naturally constituted for the acquisition of virtue."

[@semperzach1194]

I believe that Fr. Athanasios was answering the philosophical question in the form of “If God knows everything and has power over everything, then how can he really be good since he allows bad things to happen?” Therefore, he was not saying that the world was created to be imperfect, rather that it was corrupted from its perfection by the sin of Adam and Eve, and that he knew that this would happen. Though suffering and evil exists in the world, this does not pose a theological impasse to the Goodness of God since the ultimate goal/destination of us all is eternity in the Kingdom of God, not death.

[@freedfromdesire466]

the road to salvation depends on this.....