Why "Golf Ball Car" Is Pivotal in MythBusters' History

[@SevenBates]

Casually learning about the name of the strudel (Strouhal) wave, out of nowhere, It's just one example of why I am so grateful for these videos.

[@SevenBates]

We wasted their time! (huge laugh) oh that's the cherry on top.

[@danielwgk]

Good luck googling it. I couldn't find any relevant info. Google sure seems to be less and less useful as time goes on.

[@KaleidoscopeNo5401]

@@danielwgk that's simply not true. it's the only thing that comes up when you search it.

[@KaleidoscopeNo5401]

wow 15 year's holy shit, congratulations. seven you have the oldest account i have seen this year.

[@danielwgk]

@@KaleidoscopeNo5401 aww, mine just slightly less old.

[@HartenDylan]

There's a 4th part to this story: The new Bugatti uses an active dimpling system for exact reason of decreasing turbulence and tightening the slip stream! Real world application that this general methodology is actually viable. Aka - Mythbusters were right.

[@fist-of-doom487]

The way I see it you can only take the response to the previous motor company one of two ways 1) they refused to alter the design principles of their cars either out of greed or pride and there by claiming that the claim itself was unfounded 2) they genuinely couldn’t get the same result

[@HartenDylan]

@@fist-of-doom487 In my mind it's likely the latter for one simple reason: a company that finds a way to advertise a new vehicle that saves you up to 14% (+/- %) on your gas bill, and is the first to offer a mainstream solution (USDM), their sales (and therefore their profits) would increase. I saw in another comment discussing how even in the golf ball world there's massive variations (one manufacturer uses hexagons of all the same size, another does circles of varying sizes, different numbers/depths/spacing of dimples) so it's likely a design challenge that didn't see immediate results with and assumed it must have been flawed. But I agree with Adam, the validity and reliability of the original methodology is sound - the manufacturer deviated from that methodology and got a different result. Doesn't mean Mythbusters was "wrong", it means that the manufacturers got a different result - aka science haha.

[@jimmmaaayyy5163]

Yeah. Adding huge dimples all over is a fairly brute-force way to do it. A car doesn't rotate like a golf ball -you always know which end is pointed forward! Automakers can concentrate their aerodynamic tinkering to where it matters without just blindly dimpling the whole surface and wasting effort where it is not needed.

[@HartenDylan]

@@jimmmaaayyy5163 Absolutely! It'll be interesting to see how the Bugatti design fares in the long term (soft membrane going through repetitive cycling sounds like it could be a failure point, but who knows).

[@jimmmaaayyy5163]

@@HartenDylan I really wish moveable aerodynamics was legal in F1, it would be cool to see more of this kind of thing! PS I hadn't really kept up with the new Bugattis so thanks for mentioning it off to do some googling!

[@kilroy987]

Interestingly, golf ball dimples are the ultimate result of players from long ago realizing that damaged golf balls flew more consistently. So manufacturers experimented and arrived at the dimples.

[@gearandalthefirst7027]

I'd say a goblin's head is pretty damaged, so they must have had some idea from the very start lmao

[@Unqualifiedtake]

And older golfers were upset because "youth are ruining the game"

[@saphcal]

@@gearandalthefirst7027 i understood that reference

[@Seele2015au]

Not "more consistently" but they went farther. Manufacturers then started making balls with textured surfaces, but they were more like random and decorative. A British golf enthusiast, William Taylor, wanted to find the optimal texture design, so he built a wind tunnel and started his study, and arrived at the design in use to this day. William Taylor was a co-founder of the company TS & W Taylor, later Taylor, Taylor & Hobson, then Rank Taylor Hobson, well known as makers of precision instruments, and lenses for photography and cinematography.

[@masteranakin8827]

I was going to say that, and The first thing I saw was your comment

[@jimluebke3869]

Strictly speaking it's not a "slipstream" you're interested in here, it's a "boundary layer". Air drag has two components - First, "surface drag", the actual friction of the air against the vehicle. Second, "form drag", the force produced by the fact that you're pushing into a lot of air in front of you, making the air pressure in front of your car a lot higher than the pressure behind your car (this pushes you back). Dimples obviously increase the surface drag on your car. However, they DEcrease the form drag. Decreasing form drag is all about increasing the air pressure behind your car (or golf ball). How? Well, that's where the boundary layer comes in. The boundary layer is the layer of air flowing near your car, whose flow is changed by the action of your car. If you can keep this boundary layer close to your car, this evens out the pressure of the air behind your car with the pressure in front of your car, dramatically reducing the pressure drag. Picture a Porsche, with its iconic airfoil design. The "boundary layer" sticks close to the top of the car, not only when it reaches the highest point on the car's profile, but also as the profile starts to slope downward. The farther down the back of the car the boundary layer sticks to, the more the air pressure recovers, so the higher the pressure behind the car. Making the flow in this boundary layer turbulent helps keep the boundary layer attached. Technically speaking, the vortices that develop in the turbulence cause higher-pressure air from the top of the boundary layer to circulate lower into the boundary layer, increasing the pressure in the parts of the boundary layer closer to the car, and helping the layer stay attached. Dimples on a golf ball, fuzz on a tennis ball, vortex generators on a wing's leading edge, all of these have the same effect. Sorry about the long explanation, but I wanted to go step-by-step.

[@qrzupsjohnson707]

Yeah but how does it work?

[@jimluebke3869]

@@qrzupsjohnson707 The dimples (ideally) help keep higher-pressure air close to the back of the car. This means the difference between the pressure on the front of the car and the pressure on the back of the car, is less. If that pressure difference is less, the drag force on the car (which tends to decelerate the car) is less, so it decelerates the car less, and the car is more fuel efficient. There are already a number of devices that cars and trucks use to allow air pressure to "recover" behind the car -- the old Landcruiser, I recall, has a flap on the top of the back that straight-up drives air from the top of the car into the recirculation zone behind the car; some tractor-trailers have rounded shells attached to the back of the trailer, which is much better than a squared-off back, for allowing pressure to recover. Related to this, is the old (dangerous) motorcycling trick of tailgating a tractor-trailer, riding behind in its low-pressure recirculation zone. I think Mythbusters may even have done an episode on that. It demonstrates how low the pressure can be, behind a vehicle.

[@qrzupsjohnson707]

@@jimluebke3869 sorry Jim I was trolling you. Great responses 👍

[@jimluebke3869]

@@qrzupsjohnson707 Thank you for giving me an excuse to geek out more about aerodynamics. =)

[@michaelbrownlee9497]

@@jimluebke3869 i applied that thinking to the bottom of my sail boat which went against the yacht club make it smooth code. Also imagined putting a venturi air vent. Speaking of those, i wonder why no one has developed those for cars. If i recall, they toyed around with those in early automotive designs.

[@someoneelsedoit8706]

Still love how all these years later after mythbusters ended, Adam is still so sweet and fucking around with science. His deposition is like he’s always a happy child in a candy shop.

[@KienDLuu]

Agreed. Adam’s energy was a major reason of the shows succession. His genuine joy and curiosity was infectious.

[@jordonfreeman166]

I still remember after Adam announced the results Jamie saying “I feel like eating my beret” because he thought they wouldn’t have an effect.

[@cavemanvi]

i still remember Kari's first episode. #AUCTIONTHESEAT

[@idewmeth4203]

@@cavemanvi auction the seat? Could you elaborate on that?

[@shorey66]

@@idewmeth4203 they made a cast of her ass for some reason. Can't quite remember why but funnily enough I remember that part.

[@clayxros576]

@@shorey66 It was to test if someone could be vacuum sealed to an airplane toilet. They took the picture of her butt, rendered it, then modified the render to mimic an obese person to maybe make a vacuum seal.

[@Matrxmonky]

When they finally tallied up the gas mileage and looked at the differences...

[@williegillie5712]

I’m glad to see Grant has something to be remembered with. He and Tori and Carie where all an integral part of the mythbusters team. He will be sorely missed.

[@Sheridantank]

He was such a genuine seeming person. He did a lot to make "nerds" seem cool for my generation. RIP Grant.

[@Fleato]

right, i really think that the mythbusters team had a major influence on my decision to go into engineering. I always had a love for science and the process of problem solving and never realized it until my later years but now im full swing into engineering.

[@bbugarschi]

He also did some ads for McDonalds, look it up...

[@thisismyusername6717]

Wait a fucking minute...GRANT DIED!!!???

[@B3Band]

Grant is dead?!?!

[@fernandotrevinocastro1018]

For 14% fuel eficiency i would drive a car with scales, feathers, whatever man, this fuel prices are killing me

[@garystinten9339]

Make covers for the wheels

[@Bob_Lob_Law]

Get a smaller car. Or better yet, ride a bicycle or use public transportation.

[@oceanbytez847]

@@garystinten9339 Brakes get hot and need airflow for cooling. Covering them entirely wouldn't be worth the drawback of hot and short lived brakes.

[@CannonRaw]

@@Bob_Lob_Law not saying you're wrong. But living in more remote areas sometimes you need your own vehicle. And having something with more power is essential when you drive in sleet, slush, ice, and, snow.

[@asmodiusjones9563]

Bro - get a used Prius. I get 55 mpg on average, and regularly 65 on long trips.

[@KenLimPhotography]

One aspect I love about Mythbusters is the passion y’all had for the science and the willingness to fail and more importantly, learn from your failures and apply what was learned. Thank you for making every hour enjoyable which I still enjoy on Discovery+ to this day!

[@sereth7582]

Seeing this about the charity for the first time. Grant's death was one of the only times I cried over a role model's death. He inspired me to be a better engineer and do innovative work. Good to see the charity going.

[@omnipotent_arcanis]

"We wasted the time of a big three automaker for like a week; that is so cool" Some of the sweetest words I have ever heard.

[@outkast187]

Eh, I think you are missing the message. Most people agree to this because they hate people more successful than them and think anyone with more than them is evil and they want revenge. (Democrats are experts at pushing this message, so they can gain power) Where Adam....I believe was saying it was cool to be so relevant, that a big company noticed and had to use their resources to see if they could replicate it. Thats a big deal.

[@clayxros576]

@@outkast187 We ain't here to talk politics bud, we are here to laugh at an auto manufacturer for incorrectly replicating the hypothesis. Which amounts to them wasting time and mo ey for a bum result. Which is hilarious

[@outkast187]

@@clayxros576 but why is it hilarious for someone to waste time and money? Are you just a hateful person? Ah, no...its because you are jealous of the success. Its human nature, its common. If it upsets you to know that, break down why it makes you happy when someone else fails.

[@outkast187]

@Giga Shrubbz oh yea? Then why would someone take joy in someone's loss of money and failure? Are you saying these human traits no longer exist? Jealousy is no longer a thing? People are no longer mean?

[@Sage_6reen]

It's real unfortunate you're confusing a global corporation with a person capable of suffering. Fuck that corporation and their time and their resources. People with more than you aren't evil. People and organizations with more wealth than small countries, that leverage it to exploit their employees and constituents however, different story

[@poeboygolfs]

There is actually no standard number of dimples on a golf ball. Each manufacturer and each brand of golf ball can have different size, number, pattern, spacing and even shape of dimples on their golf balls. For example, Callaway golf balls are known for having hexagonal shaped dimples. Also the top selling golf ball, the Titleist Pro-V1 has a dimple pattern that incorporates dimples of different sizes. Each manufacturer's dimple pattern is used as a proprietary effort to not only reduce drag to improve the ball's speed, but also keep the ball in the air longer to improve carry distances.

[@gregbrown98]

you're absolutely right. to add to this, the dimple patterns are fined tuned to a degree that they even affect the amount of spin the golf ball maintains after impact. the Pro V1x has a dimple pattern that aims to reduce spin more than that of the Pro V1, since it's marketed as a lower spinning ball. the amount of engineering that goes into golf equipment these days is unfathomable.

[@rays5163]

That's just what the illuminati wants you to believe

[@maxmarkfield]

@@gregbrown98 Or at least the amount of marketing that goes into it...

[@Real28]

My fellow golfers are here.

[@tonycrabtree3416]

792 I believe was the ProV1 standard at one time.

[@theonly9]

I remember this episode when I was a kid. I told my parents "but they are taking weight off the car with the dimpples" then it almost immediately cuts to you with a milk crate of the cut outs putting them back in the car, saying "we are going to keep it fair and put the weight back in the car."

[@devikwolf]

Mythbusters will always be a tremendous part of my adolescence, and all of you are in no small part responsible for keeping me interested in answering questions and building cool things. I always felt a particular connection to Grant's excitement to build new things and answer really cool questions, so I'm extremely proud to see how the Mythbusters, and in particular Adam, have honored his legacy. I wish I'd had the chance to tell Grant personally just how much he inspired me to keep building, learning, doing, and exploring, but ALL of you helped foster that same attitude. I love all of the Mythbusters team for setting an example that an entire generation could idolize.

[@samsaverino8159]

I swear I could listen to him tell story's all day long. I love hearing him talk, especially how you can hear the excitement in his voice. It really brings me into what he is talking about.

[@glytchmeister9856]

Wasting a week’s worth of time of a world leading company is honestly a massive bucket list item

[@brucecarter8296]

getting them to improve effeciency would be better. i would like to know more about why they arrived at different results

[@1nicube]

@@brucecarter8296 im pretty sure that size and quantity of the dimples are a big factor and they didnt found the right proportion. also im 100% garantee that even if it works they wont release a car with dimples on the body of the car. Mclaren already have a car with dimples under the car, so if a big supercar company made it.. im sure it does help and you juste need to find the right dimension and proportion.

[@anonym3017]

@@brucecarter8296 because they used the wrong size or not enough of them. Because it definitely works to reduce drag. Which is why it's now being done by European manufacturers on the underside. Gets them 0.5 liters less fuel consumption for no costs whatsoever.

[@thereaction18]

It's hardly an accomplishment to get a big company to waste their time. They are already doing that all the time.

[@malcanthetduffy3613]

I know my mom complained when the insurance company traded her car in because of a hail storm and she had to lose out on the 20% improved fuel efficiency. But yes the sizes and number of dimples can really improve how long fuel lasts. I do wonder if they took the added weight of the clay into their original calculations though.

[@bdubbsmark]

Mr. Savage it's an honor to take a walk with you down memory lane. Mythbusters was huge for me growing up, getting to watch you pull the curtain back so many years later has been wonderful! Thank you

[@dafoex]

It's perhaps a regret of mine that I'll never meet Grant. He was truly inspirational in both robotics and engineering in general, and probably one of the people that nudged me down the path of computer science I'm on today.

[@tuttosalve8352]

Oh man fuckin brain aneurysm that's scary

[@FNR]

So in the 1990s, the famous (some would say "notorious") racing engineer Smokey Yunick wrote technical Q&A columns for Circle Track magazine. Now the 1990s was the start of the transition in stock car racing to purpose-built race cars that had the outer shape of a production car, rather than starting life as a production car. It transpired that a few years prior, a team that had crashed their car found themselves without a replacement, and went to the local dealer to procure a new car to convert, but as it happened, it was a model that had a Landau top (the vinyl applique that faked the look of a convertible). Time was short, so the team did not have time to strip the top, but raced it with the vinyl intact. A reader wrote in to the magazine to ask what was the performance benefit to the vinyl (he was unaware of the history of how that car came to be raced) and Smokey fed him the best line of bullshit I ever saw an engineer put to paper. Smokey claimed that the faux-leather grain of the pebbled vinyl top acted in the same manner as the dimples on a golf ball, reducing drag, and feeding slipstreamed air to the rear spoiler, increasing downforce. Incredulous readers wrote in, Smokey (very much tongue in cheek) stuck to his guns, and this became a running gag/inside joke inside the magazine (and some team garages) for *years*. So Smokey did it first!

[@tom.in.barcelona]

Adam's enthusiasm is so infectious - what an educator, seriously!

[@CatMintKat]

Back in high school, this episode helped me make the fastest CO2 racer for my science class. I was so proud since it even beat the teacher's car ❤️

[@becauseimafan]

Sweet!! 😁

[@haddow777]

It can't be overstated how much aerodynamics affect things. I made the fastest CO2 car in my class using another principal of aerodynamics. I made a general block car out of a 2x4. Nothing fancy other than narrow at the front, tapering to tiller in the middle and slightly tapering down towards the rear. The big design feature I added that made mine faster was to add a big groove on the bottom of the car. It kind of looked like I cut the profile of a wing out of the bottom of the car. The way it worked is kind of like how F1 racers work. As the air went under the car, the bottom rasing up in an inverted wing slope created a small area of low pressure under the car. This in effect, created a weak vacuum that sucked the car to the floor. This kept it stable as it drove, and allowed more of the thrust to be applied to the forward direction rather than be wasted by the car gyrating all over the place. It killed all the other cars. Now, if only I thought about dimples at the time too.

[@CarsOfPennsylvania]

God I wish I had this project

[@wea_lodd9961]

@@haddow777 your teacher must have been proud to have a student who truly cared about what he taught :)

[@haddow777]

@@wea_lodd9961 unfortunately no. The class was a new experimental class called Techology class. It was supposed to be, in there words, be a low tech class. Meaning mostly engineering. Our teacher's name was Mr. Dench, so of course, as 13 year olds, we called him Mr. Stench behind his back. In any event, he didn't really view it as a real class I guess. He would go through attendance in the beginning and he paid so little attention he never noticed more than half the class leaving right after their names were called. He just left us to do whatever we wanted in a metal work shop. Imagine, a bunch of 13 year olds left alone in a metal shop. No word of a lie, I stopped one kid from holding an acetaline torch on the acetaline tank. Fortunately for the whole school, he didn't know how to mix the oxygen ratio so it wasn't hot enough to burn through steel, still that scared the living daylights out of me. Also, one time someone made a bunch of ninja stars and we threw them all around the room. No, a couple months later, Mr, Dench finally realize most people were skipping and put an end to it. That's when he actually gave us assignments. The CO2 race car one came with basic requirements. It could be a certain size and must have a hole for the CO2 cartridge. He gave us some basic wheels we could attach. That was it. I think I got the idea for my design because I watched a show on car design and they explained how F1 racers work. After seeing how CO2 cars were so volatile that they flew half the time, I thought the design principal would stabilize it, and luckily for me it did. Unfortunately, some kid in the class who didn't seem to care that mine beat his had the last word. A day or so later I ended up finding my car smashed to pieces on the floor of the shop. It wasn't too bad of a class though. Once Dench got into the swing of things, he did assign us to build a robot arm powered through hydraulics using syringes. You know, connect 2 syringes together by a hose, as you push one in, the other extends. You could have one for the gripper hand, another for the elbow, another for the shoulder, and another to turn the arm. It was a cool project, but to show I was just another punk kid in the room, I never actually built it. Too lazy at the time. I always regret that.

[@jsclayton]

This is why I refer to the hail damage on my truck as “speed dimples” 😆

[@truckerspike]

LOL!

[@yslw7]

Same here.

[@cezarcatalin1406]

People in Oklahoma are silently nodding in agreement.

[@Drekromancer]

based

[@thumbwarriordx]

"didn't really realize we were making a science show at the beginning" Oh boy 15 year old me had some OPINIONS about some of the methodologies of the first 3 seasons of Mythbusters. ...Many of which were addressed two or even three times over the ensuing years.

[@stitch626aloha]

Yes, like the episodes where they called Gy Sgt. Hathcock a LIAR because “.30-06 can’t get through a scope.” and they were using a round-nose -06 against a 9x Leupold scope in an M1 Garand instead of the boat tail spitzer ball ammo used by the military against the actual pzu scope in a Winchester M70((my terms are wrong, and I know, gimme a break))… when the experiment WORKED at 8 feet, they declared it “Plausible”, then turned around and said, “but it’s still impossible”. I get it, one in a billion shot, but they called him -and his spotter- LIARS

[@Delightfully_Witchy]

Didn't Simo Haya also do something like that?

[@demongrenade2748]

@@stitch626aloha That's because it didn't work with standard ammo. They had to pull out armor piercing ammo in order to make it happen. And Hathcock was a liar. At the range Hathcock supposedly pulled off that shot, the bullet would no longer flying straight. Even if you had no lenses in the scope, the bullet wouldn't be able to fly through the scope without hitting the scope housing. Its angle of trajectory makes it impossible. Add in lenses, and now its even more impossible. Carlos hathcock, and his spotter, were completely full of shit. They didn't pull off that shot.

[@z-beeblebrox]

@@Delightfully_Witchy Probably a legend. Most stories about Simo Hayha are second-hand because he rarely gave interviews and kept to himself, so there's likely quite a few made up stories about him.

[@WaluTime]

@@stitch626aloha only half of that paragraph felt like english.

[@tonyhouk9047]

I was able to go to a lecture Grant did at The University of Nebraska Lincoln. He talked about the Bunny and his work on it. I’m glad I was able to attend it. Tony

[@JefffRushton]

Grant's passing hit different. You could tell he was a genuine and kind person.

[@Throttle.Therapy.]

Great dedication for Grant. ❤

[@dollarbill93]

May he rest in peace.

[@JV-ll1cu]

Yes. But does every late famous/semi-famous person need to have their own foundation?

[@teedjay91]

@@JV-ll1cu Peoples around him felt he didn't have enough time to give all the positive he could have in the world. It's not only about him but about everyone who shares his values that can be helped to develop their full potentials. How can that be a bad thing?

[@armchairexpert4151]

RIP Grant, didn't know his death until now :(

[@Taskarnin]

It’s possible that depending on the SUV the flow around the vehicle was already quite turbulent. In airplanes there’s also a thing called parasitic drag and Induced drag. Different things cause different kinds of drag. Likely the dimples mitigate one kind of drag but not another.

[@mushieslushie]

Yeah, also the car they tested was a 90's Taurus where the SUV, while an SUV, probably had more modern aerodynamics.

[@GiM_Retrospect]

From my understanding, dimples increase skin friction, but reduce the low-pressure drag experienced by the ball in flight. I'm guessing the SUV already had poor skin friction due to its shape, so the dimples didn't really help.

[@InDreamsYourMine]

@@mushieslushie Actually it was a 2000,s Taurus, and if it was a late 90s Taurus, they were designed to be areo dynamic hence why they look a little weird.

[@IstasPumaNevada]

Adam didn't specify exactly what numbers the auto manufacturer got. And if they only said "We did not come to the same results", that could mean anything really. It could mean "we got 10% instead of 14%", or 0%, or 25%, or -10%... And that's assuming they were telling the truth to Adam. Also, aero testing in the real world is notoriously fickle. A slight cross- or headwind on one test would completely throw off their results. Time of day can make big changes too; warmer/windier later. Should have done A-B-A-B testing; that is, without the dimples, then with, then without, then with. At least five runs in each direction for each test.

[@cavalrycome]

@@IstasPumaNevada It's clear from context that Adam is saying the auto manufacturer didn't find an improvement in fuel efficiency.

[@tannerrienbolt3143]

I still can't believe Grant is gone

[@raylarkin5004]

😥

[@fuzzybits410]

F

[@MmeHyraelle]

Yea its so hard to accept reality and not substitute your own.

[@cezarcatalin1406]

@@MmeHyraelle We can reject someone else’s reality... but we cannot reject our common reality.

[@Pondimus_Maximus]

It breaks the heart. 😥

[@stevenclark2188]

I heard the dimples were a grip surface so that ball spin could be used to generate lift and the optimum angle of launch could be lower than 45 degrees.

[@outkast187]

It was so awesome to watch these episodes and see all the fun and frustration baked in. I liked everyone on the show, Grant was so perfect for it, the show couldn't be what it was without the same group.

[@Plankmeister]

I love his enthusiasm, it's so infectious! You only ever see this kind of enthusiasm when someone is nerding out about something they're really genuinely interested in.

[@mcpherson244]

Miss ya grant. This is a great idea. Thank you for your selflessness in giving these nostalgic items away to a great cause.

[@LycaonsMemories]

i love how absolutely ecstatic adam is at wasting the big corporates time

[@Schm1dtstorm]

Based.

[@mrdanforth3744]

It wasn't wasted if they learned something. Big companies do research and development all the time, most experiments don't lead directly to new car models but some do. Every new innovation starts as somebody's brain storm.

[@fufun4me]

@@mrdanforth3744 plenty are ab accident or a "Oh fuck this" moment. Small, clever fixes are how humans got good

[@kurtwagner350]

Yeah that’s how you know you made it, when billion dollar companies take you seriously

[@clayxros576]

@@mrdanforth3744 Yeah, tho to be fair from what we heard about the letter they tested the concept totally differently, and then with a different kind of car on top of it.

[@MrWitz90]

That was the single most memorable episode of Mythbusters for me, a 90's kid, who grew up watching you. Thanks for the memories.

[@YorkyPudinz]

The strudel wave you referenced is actually called 'helmholtz resonance' and is effectively like blowing over a giant bottle to create a sound

[@hiplessboy]

Wow. This is to benefit the Grant Imahara Foundation? So nice. That is so heartbreaking and heartwarming at the same time.

[@funforall9741]

This was my absolute favorite episode, mostly because i walked away feeling like something incredible was stumbled upon. Also i was so sad to hear about grant. I have never once heard or seen a single bad thing about him and I'm sure it was an honor to know somebody that exceptionally kind

[@tested]

Sign up to bid on this maquette (signed by Adam!) and other lots, benefitting the Grant Imahara STEAM Foundation: propstore.com/mythbusters Donate directly to the Grant Imahara STEAM Foundation: grantimaharafoundation.org/ Watch MythBusters on Discovery Plus: discoveryplus.com/

[@poeboygolfs]

There is actually no standard number of dimples on a golf ball. Each manufacturer and each brand of golf ball can have different size, number, pattern, spacing and even shape of dimples on their golf balls. For example, Callaway golf balls are known for having hexagonal shaped dimples. Also the top selling golf ball, the Titleist Pro-V1 has a dimple pattern that incorporates dimples of different sizes. Each manufacturer's dimple pattern is used as a proprietary effort to not only reduce drag to improve the ball's speed, but also keep the ball in the air longer to improve carry distances.

[@andrewrutter6767]

Propstore link no worky. :(

[@daygore]

@@andrewrutter6767 use the one in lower case from the descrption that works

[@tested]

@@andrewrutter6767 Sigh. Please try this and thanks for the heads up: usm.propstoreauction.com/m/view-auctions/info/id/295/

[@TATTIEPICKER]

@@poeboygolfs You posted this twice. A reduction in drag is going to inherently improve speed and carry distance as well as time in the air. What you are thinking more about is golf balls that improve spin or decrease spin, which obviously doesn't matter when putting them on a car.

[@eswift8318]

I had an old Dodge Diplomat that I paid $400 for. I was about to take a ball pean hammer to it to dimple it for my own real life Mythbusters. I tracked the gas mileage for almost a month, and was going to dimple it and check the next month, but the transmission started eating itself. Then I bought a nice car and didn't want to experiment on it. So sad.

[@JD-ub5ic]

I would think the diameter and depth of the dimples, along with road speed, is critical. Perhaps the automaker couldn't replicate it because they didn't achieve the turbulent pockets in the dimples that are the mechanism by which it works. You'd think they would have understood the theory well enough to confirm they were getting this turbulence before declaring it defunct, but who knows. It's also possible that as you stated an SUV isn't representative. On an SUV I imagine the drag is dominated by pressure drag, the large cross sectional area at the rear drags turbulent air like a parachute. In that case any reduction in skin friction that the dimples gives may be minimal compared to how much air is being dragged behind the vehicle.

[@gamesplayedpoorly8633]

This was one of my favorite tests that you did on the show. This along with the air conditioner vs the windows rolled down for fuel efficiency.

[@markmudge6586]

Bugatti is actually utilizing this principal in one of their concepts currently. Though I think that's to more efficiently funnel air to the rear wing.

[@silver9802]

Yeah! That was my first thought watching this. Hopefully the Bolide turns out sick!

[@ericsson_motorsports]

Porsche is using it in their production cars under the front bumper to help air flow under the body better. It's also been used on other cars owned by VW

[@ericsson_motorsports]

@@J.PC.Designs kzbin.info/www/bejne/qqbafmutipZrrq8 At around 2:20 you can see the golf ball pattern, I never knew that 911s had a lowering front lip and I couldn't find any information about it though

[@TheDemigans]

When I saw that episode I immediately had two questions: 1: the dimples on the golfball are all around due to it turning in the air. But a car only needs to have dimples near the back to create the disturbance effect right? 2: how does the size of the dimples affect the stream? Is several large ones better than several small ones?

[@corssecurity]

What shape? Uniform or varying? Paint vs carbon fibre? Wraps? Vs sheet metal.

[@NetAndyCz]

Kind of think that it would be best to use some sort of machine learning and genetic algorithms, to place random sized holes and random locations and see what is more effective and then try to improve the promising deigns by further altering them.

[@mushieslushie]

I think the dimples work on a ball because it needs to be round and not have any other shapes protruding from it. On a car there are probably much better ways to get a similar or better end result. You would very likely see dimples on race cars if it was viable.

[@BooBaddyBig]

Probably would only need dimples at the front. At the rear the flow is already turbulent and they wouldn't do a whole lot.

[@z-beeblebrox]

The long and short of it is - this is a fascinating topic that demands further research

[@cherenkov_blue]

Watching Adam get excited about strudel waves and the thumping noise of a car window brings me immense joy. That genuine interest you can see is just so wholesome!

[@IAmTheAce5]

I still remember how objective and consistent your methodology was. When Popular Mechanics covered a new technology working on the same principle, their methodology left much to be desired- too many uncontrolled variables and no consistent driving to actually test the concept. You proved yourselves far and away more scientific and credible than a ‘science’ publication!

[@elivaughan1192]

"But, we wasted the time of a big 3 automaker for like a week. That is so cool." ROFL. Spit out my water on that one.

[@cezarcatalin1406]

Adam Savage is a based savage 👏

[@lanceanthony198]

I don’t think he meant he was glad he “wasted” their time, more so he was excited that their little show inspired a week of testing and investigation from a major company

[@elivaughan1192]

@@lanceanthony198 I'm not trying to start an argument here.. but what "little show" are you talking about?? Lol. Surely not the one that had several famous/professional athletes, or got access to NASAs resources over and over, or had the president of the united States of America request a special show.... What little show?? Because you are certainly not talking about mythbusters.

[@lanceanthony198]

@@elivaughan1192 Yes but the golf ball car episode was from like 2008 or 2009. He brings up the “wasting time” thing to talk about how it is moments like that that allows the crew to feel like they’re collaborating with real scientists and testers. That’s why he described it as “cool”, not that he’s so glad he literally “wasted” a companies money and employees time recreating their idea.

[@ReversePeople]

I love, LOVE, your enthusiasm!!!! Thank you so very much for taking the time to share.

[@ShadowHunter120]

Grant will be sorely missed but this is definitely, DEFINITELY worthy contribution to his legacy.

[@amateurishauthor2202]

I've watched Myth busters since I was a kid, it held. No, HOLDS a special place in my heart, I was sad to hear that Grant passed away, I miss Myth Busters, but older me can understand that eventually all things need to come to an end before they become tainted. I remember all the Mythbuster knockoffs that sprung up with your success, knocking heads with scientists and getting copycats really means that you've done well for a show. Thank you for the trip down memory lane

[@jackofsometradesmasterofnone]

The positioning of the holes will also play into this no? At that big scale you'd have to make the holes "play with eachother" so the turbulence of one hole would not cancel out/increase with the next one. Honestly this is so interesting that i might try to replicate it on my RC car. Making the mold will be easy, just need to find someone to vacuum form a new shell from the holed mold.

[@circus.forrest]

These actually are on at least one car now. The newest Mercedes E63 has dimples on the plate that covers the bottom

[@DrewNorthup]

FWIW, the Engineering Explained KZbin channel has demonstrated several cars now which use dimpling in their under-car aerodynamic-enhancement panels.

[@thereisnospace]

nice, didnt see that episode. gonna go check that out :)

[@ryanmrtn5]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/qqbafmutipZrrq8

[@brianwest2775]

Dimples don't reduce drag on the surface. They can change the effective shape of the car to by keeping the airflow more attached but I suspect it's more of a marketing story than any real effect. The air flow under a car is probably already very turbulent because it's not smooth. Dimples could help stiffen a panel to reduce noise (but the dimples probably make noise). (In the video mentioned in another comment, the dimpled surfaces and those behind it are near horizontal, so I'm very skeptical. kzbin.info/www/bejne/qqbafmutipZrrq8) Dimples change the boundary layer from laminar to turbulent. A turbulent boundary layer has MORE friction because energy is used to mix that air. In a curved object, like a golf ball, that energetic turbulent boundary layer sticks to the surface better, thereby changing the effective shape of the ball, so the airflow around the ball looks more like a raindrop (or airfoil) than a bullet with a blunt rear end. The reduction in drag from the change in shape is much more than the increased drag of the turbulent boundary layer. A golf ball needs dimples everywhere because it is spinning. A car does not spin. The wind is in essentially one direction. Since the car is already shaped to be aerodynamic, it will have laminar flow wherever possible. Theoretically, there could be strategic places where you want to add dimples to keep the airflow attached, but I doubt it. If you wanted a steeper angle of the rear window or trunk, or fender then you could dimple those. ex: howthingsfly.si.edu/aerodynamics/pressure-drag www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-do-dimples-in-golf-ba/

[@aierce]

@@brianwest2775 you almost sounded smart to someone who didn't watch this episode of Mythbusters

[@lorinh2947]

@@brucecarter8296 For anything performance related in cars, you usually want less air under the car to "suck" the car to the road (AKA the ground effect). You do have a point on economy cars such as Priuses which have no hands in the performance industry. - But I've never heard of them having dimples on the undercarriage of these cars.

[@Slikx666]

So glad to hear that there's something good happening with Grants name on it. We miss you Grant, but you'll always be with us.

[@k_Why]

i wonder why the guys with the clay car in the wind tunnel got a different result, feels like 14% increase in fuel efficiency cant be explained away with mere variance, so they had to have done some mistake

[@richardbossman9875]

Interestingly enough there is an aftermarket car intake velocity stack that incorporates dimples to help reduce stage at the surface and increase air speed going into the intake system.

[@paulgrieger8182]

You had me at "Strudel Wave."

[@justayoutuber1906]

Mmmmm Strudel

[@halogrunt53]

The Buggati Bolide actually uses dimples on its air scoop to improve aerodynamics. Even cooler is that they're active, raising and flattening based on the speed. Demo kzbin.info/www/bejne/j5fVapShjqqVl9E In depth explanation kzbin.info/www/bejne/o4nbaWSPrs-ZgpI

[@lazyboxfish7113]

A simpler, non-adaptive version of this concept has also been used on the Porsche 718 GT4, 718 Spyder, and even more normal cars such as the Volkswagen Golf. Here's a great video by Engineering Explained that briefly mentions it: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qqbafmutipZrrq8

[@ramiro1989]

The Ford GT also uses a dimpled under floor panel all across the car. You can see it in this video at minute 1:45. kzbin.info/www/bejne/bIfVp399r7lsjaM

[@didsomebodysaydmt8193]

I got a flat today in my 89 accord.

[@MysticWanderer]

Adam, I just love the wonder and joy you show in your work and science in general. You make everything you are involved in fun and inspiring.

[@MountaindewM]

I got so much joy in watching MythBusters. I get just as much joy now re-watching episodes but there is a part of me that feels a sadness for knowing someone so great is gone far too soon. I can't imagine how the whole MythBusters crew must feel with the loss of such a good friend that you had to of gotten to know at the very least decently well. I will cherish the moments he is on screen knowing he has taught so many young kids and adults alike about science and that being into science can be cool.

[@loosenoose]

@smartereveryday @destin needs to watch this. ... We should also be able to tag people or pages in KZbin. Fantastic video, Adam! I must have missed the golf ball car back in the day. Glad I caught it here. I ride motorcycles and I've seen dimpling being used on some helmets. Usually on the sides, around the ears and approaching the rear of the helmet, like between the back of the ears and the neck line. Same principal, I guess. It creates a little bit of turbulent air around that area maybe to reduce buffeting at high speeds.

[@howHumam]

Wow, I can still see the animations for this in my head. This myth is very fascinating...

[@Kyle-fu6en]

So I’m not the only one

[@Unitedflyier]

That was a great episode. The funniest was jet blasting the taxi and school bus behind a 747. I fell off my chair laughing.

[@CortexNewsService]

My conservative dad and my left wing ass bonded over a mythbuster episode, the one where the smashed a small var between to semis. We both chuckled and said "cool."

[@spiercephotography]

Your reactions to the wind tunnel story and the story about the auto maker at the end is priceless; i’d get a kick out of that too! Good luck with all the auction items, I hope it all goes well!!

[@antekswiergocki6537]

To be fair tho, if there was a possibility of getting 14% better fuel efficiency out of the car ‘my company’ would manufacture, I’d try it out as well. Just think of the potential marketing and extra sales, for a negligible price.

[@GrowingAnswers]

What I like the most is how genuinely enthused you are about science and being involved in it. Its the same reason why I started doing what I do before I started doing stuff for KZbin.

[@tommybronze3451]

All these years I thought that all of italian cars have multiple un-repaired dents because they are bad drivers and cheap … but turns out that they were saving the environment all those years !

[@batsonelectronics]

every time you mentioned Grant, I got sad. Even though MB's is over, not having Grant in this world just sucks. I miss the whole gang being together. RIP Grant.

[@speedwaynutt]

Honestly Discovery needs to try and do a Mythbusters reunion show before we lose anymore members.

[@3nertia]

It's already too late :'(

[@speedwaynutt]

@@3nertia We Still have Adam,Jamie,Tori and Kari

[@3nertia]

@@speedwaynutt Not the same without Grant though, in my opinion :'(

[@dracomenda2]

@@3nertia it never will be, but I miss seeing the rest of them too

[@corssecurity]

Would be fantastic but it's a fact Jamie and Adam do not get along. They worked both independently and together. Professionalism is working well with people you don't personally like. Respecting thier skills and being polite. Jamie is working on projects for the military. Honestly Imo he is a good sport and still does occasional interviews for the fans. He and Adam got unique opertunites due to the success of the tv show. Plus if you were looking for a shop to build a practical working prototype of something impossible M5 studios is it.

[@G5Hohn]

The effectiveness of the dimples is related to the shape's tendency to induce flow separation. Dimples add their own drag, so the net benefit effect relies on the induced drag of the dimples being fully offset by the reduction of drag due to flow separation. If the shape doesn't have much tendency towards separation, then the dimples are just more drag and don't help. This is why you'll never see dimpled airplane wings (except for potentially in strategic locations where they might help reduce separation at high angles of attack). On the other hand, dimples could be useful at locations like the rear part of a large boxy truck trailer where the back of the trailer tends to have a huge amount of flow separation. Indeed, there are already "vortex generator" add-ons popularly fitted to these trucks because they reduce drag so effectively.

[@orionred2489]

This is almost like rule 34, but with tech. If it exists, someone is tinkering with it.

[@brettbuck7362]

I think you are using "induced drag" in a non-standard way.

[@G5Hohn]

@@brettbuck7362 Yes, I think "induced drag" generally refers to "drag due to lift" but since there's no lift per se here I'm referring to a "drag that is caused."

[@bsmith4u2]

Would have been interesting to pull in a golf ball designer from one of the top ball companies, Titleist, Taylormade, etc.

[@tips4truckers252]

Great video most nee cars have dimples on the mirror to prevent buffeting when the windows are down.

[@ryan_j_peck]

This is the second time I've heard the story about wasting the time of the big automaker. Both times I've laughed way too much. Great story!

[@peglor]

They've wasted so much of their time flogging internal combustion engines to death and much worse, lobbying governments to design the world around cars rather than humans that this is a drop in the ocean of waste and suffering they've been responsible for.

[@Mrjohnnymoo1]

@@peglor An in ICE engine can use 15 gallons of fuel, or 120lbs, and travel over 600 miles, nearly 700. An electric vehicle is the next best and needs 1500lbs of energy/fuel to travel 400-500 miles. It needs 12x the weight to travel 200-300 miles less than a $1200 Honda Civic. They aren't flogging ICE, it still has many advantages.

[@peglor]

@@Mrjohnnymoo1 Most ICE cars won't do 600 miles on one tank unless you're driving them very carefully. Fewer people still will ever drive them far enough in one go often enough for a 400 mile car to make any appreciable difference to them over a 600 mile car. Imagine a situation where you just plug the car in when you get home, refilling costs a couple of dollars, and you never need to spend any time refilling it at all since it's happening while the car is parked at home - this is the reality of electric vehicle ownership day to day and exactly what ICE car companies don't want people to realise. In terms of actual energy in the fuel, anywhere from 60 to 80% of it is heading straight out the tailpipe and radiator as waste heat on an ICE car, so if you're talking efficiency, an electric car powered entirely by coal power station electricity, will be responsible for less CO2 per mile than an ICE car even though it weighs more. In stop-go driving, because it can take momentum back from the car to slow it down, charging the battery, the cost to accelerate the higher mass is offset by the amount of energy it can get back when you slow down. At constant speed aerodynamics and rolling drag are all you're dealing with, which is the same for all cars, but aero tends to be better on electric cars because they don't need massive vents to take in cooling air as their higher efficiency doesn't create anything like as much waste heat. The worst thing is the marketing hatchet job the car companies started on electric cars more or less as soon as battery tech made then feasible continues to stack the market against them. That and Tesla specifically being dicks to both their customers and employees to the degree that even though they're finally at the point of making decent products, I specifically won't give them my money.

[@Mrjohnnymoo1]

@@peglor My friend, 600 miles is only 15 gallons of fuel with an average of 45mpg... Some Modern Hybrids get better in town mileage than highways even because of their active regen Hybrid system.

[@peglor]

​@@Mrjohnnymoo1 Not many cars are actually getting 45 mpg in real world use unless you literally are just cruising in top gear at constant 50-60 mph on the highway, and most that can hit the mpg figure don't have a tank that'll take 57 liters (15 gallons). Modern cars, especially the smaller ones and even a lot of bigger cars, have nothing like that big a tank. My large family car from over 10 years ago is officially 55 litres and that was reasonably common for large family cars at the time, but is quite big for fuel tanks on modern cars. It's a turbodiesel though, so getting 800 miles from a tank is easily possible driving for efficiency on uncongested roads, but real world I don't think I've ever even got 600 miles from a tank, so a gas engined car in the same conditions won't get anywhere close without the assistance of a lot of hybrid tech and very efficient driving - efficiency for me is making the journey in the least amount of time while obeying all the rules of the road though.

[@tkmiller_author]

That's the difference between the wind tunnel test and the "regular Joe" test. Just like the windows/AC mileage test. Great show, Adam! 🥰🥰 I still watch MB every day on Discovery+.

[@dragonskunkstudio7582]

One car company DID listen. If you look under a Porsche, don't recall which model, you will plainly see the skid plate has dimples.

[@spavliskojr]

Lexus had dimples on the underside of one of its models too. helped reduce wind noise.

[@m1k3droid]

Thanks for this. When I was a kid in the 80's I was testing golfball material on the wings of RC planes for a high school research class.

[@DonLee1980]

with all this craze of getting the lowest CD drag as possible with electric cars, I'm really surprised nobody has tried to do this. The only remotely similar thing that has been done is with a special edition Bugatti Bolide, where dimples extend out on the roof for less drag and higher top speed.

[@Patrick_The_Pure]

Just seeing Adam get so exited like a little kid seeing the "disney world in 3 miles" sign just over him remembering the strudel wave, somehow makes me very giddy.

[@JellyBlockLP]

I loved Adam's look of absolute contentment at the end of the video. You can he tell he truly loves what he does!

[@evandavis5223]

Auto maker: We tried replicating your experiment but found different results, ultimately a waste of time. Adam: HAHA we made you do science!!

[@Wizardboz]

This man has inspired so many people with his love for science and nerding out

[@xMiNdWaRpx]

I would love to see Adam Savage and Clifford Stoll meet and discuss various things. These guys are so excitedly passionate about everything that it would just be a delight to watch.

[@TonyHoyle]

Every time I see a citroen cactus I'm reminded of this episode.

[@SirChickon]

lol me too

[@cycoholic]

The funny thing about the Citroen Cactus, is how the word cactus is used in Australian slang. It's used to describe something that is not just broken, but beyond repair. Citroen certainly didn't do their market research here in Oz. 🤣

[@dyent]

Mythbusters were so ahead of their time, Bugatti are now using dimples to improve the aerodynamics of their cars.

[@justayoutuber1906]

really? wow 4 million and owners are worried about gas prices

[@dyent]

@@justayoutuber1906 Not exactly. As the air is channeled over and around the car, it leaves a wake in the air similar to a boat in water. That creates a vacuum effect, increasing drag. The dimples make the air more turbulent, slowing it down and allowing it to flow into that space easier, which in turn allows the car to accelerate slightly faster and reach a slightly higher top speed.

[@Doctor_Elk]

Watching this episode as a kid was one of the most influential experiences with science that I had in my life.

[@pgbollwerk]

Adam is such a delight. His passion for science is something I share, and it just tickles me. I'm not sure if this was considered during the dimpled car experiment, but how much of the gas mileage increase could be attributed to weight loss from the clay removed by carving out the dimples. It would have been interesting to check the weight of the car before and after the dimples, then add an equivalent weight of bricks (or whatever) to the inside, then test.

[@thethinkingtreefrog8061]

From kindergarten until the show ended 14 years later I never missed a new episode. You guys influenced almost everything I am as a person today. My dream as a kid was to be a Mythbuster too. Now I just hope I have the opportunity some time to at least be able to talk to you and Jamie if I can. I just want to be able to thank you face to face while there's still time. Mythbusters is so deeply seated at the core of my developmental life, losing Grant was as hard as losing a family member. If I never get to speak with you guys, it will honestly be the biggest regret of my life. Hey who the hell put these teardrops on my screen?

[@pr0hobo]

i am so glad i grew up with mythbusters on tv

[@Abeuss]

I remember that episode. when people talk about fuel efficient cars and wonder why no one has made a dimpled car. I saw that show as a proof of concept.

[@nirodha7028]

06:20 Mark: Adam realising his enthusiasm speaking about MB in the present tense... Taking a melancholic sigh.... Wishing it was still going... and moving on. :-)

[@marinescu0511]

Didnt need that hit in the feels But beautiful things never last sadly

[@TastyChubz]

You should move your timestamp back to 6:15.

[@thomasaccuntius9946]

The Dimple Car is my favorite episode. I am 69 years old and when Mythbusters started I was very interested in that this was their Job. And if I had known about the model making and special work they did existed, I would have gotten involved. Too late now.

[@jmckendry84]

Love this video. Your enthusiasm for what you do (and did!) is infectious

[@ConnerColemanMSHS]

Lexus made an irl golf ball car back in 2010; coolest thing I ever saw.

[@SmallBlogV8]

Coincidentally I can't help noticing that the model Adam's holding is of a Lexus (first-gen IS) as well.

[@sirscotty5297]

So when they did this myth, I was in boyscouts, and doing the pine derby. So I did this to my pine durby, and had it at like the max weight or whatever. So a wood block, sanded down to a more streamlined shape, with holes in it. Did I win? No, but it was still fun.

[@nicova7834]

Thank you for Mythbusters, finished first year of university and loving it so far, watching your show definetly made me interested in these kinds of things.

[@twelvefootnine]

"We wasted the time of a big three automaker for like a week. That is so cool!" Except I'm no longer sure it was a waste. I just saw an ad for the new '22 Chevy Equinox EV and it featured shaped textured patterns on the front air dam. Patterns that could serve the same 'slick aerodynamic friction reduction' as golf ball detents, perhaps? It's certainly enough to make this Mythbusters fan wonder.

[@cyberyogicowindler2448]

Was perhaps the door pattern of the Citroen C4 Cactus inspired by the dimple car? While I doubt that in the C4 it is effective, the design may have originated in resulting experiments.

[@sergeyakimov7332]

me and my buddy went to see you guys live in 2012 live in Richmond VA , couldn't be happier..

[@mcstench8913]

the big auto makers wanted you to feel like you were wrong so that when they start using the technology, they dont have to give you credit.

[@AAAnastasia27]

So you’re telling me, there are around 544 dimples in a golf ball but you and Jamie only had to make 1100 in the full size car? Are those numbers accurate? That’s kind of insane!!

[@intuitiveinterativedesigns8670]

I think they picked a detent size they could reasonably do in the time they had. If they'd halved the diameter of the tool they use that means at least double maybe as much as four times the number of detents. That is an entirely new area though: the scale and quantity of the detents and how that changes the effect on the car.

[@yddishmcsquidish3904]

The dimples were much bigger and feasible to actually do.

[@Ahomesteadersdream]

So ‘The Simpsons’ got it right again with Homer’s ‘Speed Holes’!

[@daveayerstdavies]

A 'detent' is NOT a 'dent' or 'dimple'. A detent is a mechanism that resists movement. Often a detent design includes a dimple, but the word detent specifically means a mechanism that resists and releases movement.

[@royh4305]

So nice to see you again Adam.. 1st time in like 8 years. Great episode, hope you are doing well. Thank you!