Why Good Songs Don't Stand Out

[@SongTownUSA]

Making It In The Music Industry: Time Frame for Songwriters. kzbin.info/www/bejne/pWiQiYiDl9mqkJY

[@ronnyskaar3737]

I thought I was brilliant so you set me straight. You said I was early so you had me wait. You showed me how to feel. Underneath your heel. 😮

[@lisalyricmusic]

The advice you give is encouraging as it is applicable to the independent, singer-songwriter, not just for writers trying to pitch their songs. You definitely help level up the noise we put out there.

[@SongTownUSA]

Apreciate that Lisa! Write on! ~CM

[@dandtintennessee7675]

Invaluable real-world experience is always guaranteed with you guys. I really need to become a member. When j can get past 70 hour work weeks and get back to recording, I intend to.

[@SongTownUSA]

Write on! CM

[@martydodson3774]

We'd love to have you join us.

[@HeatherDMorris]

Im putting this to use right now on my current song im working on . Whatever I think someone else would put in it i scratch through it and and keep going. Yall are the best 2 Ive listened to advice from. Good stuff here

[@SongTownUSA]

Glad to help. Write on! ~CM

[@Scott__C]

Great, not good is definitely a mantra to live by. I remember Stevie Nicks saying she's written some 3000 songs over her life and maybe we've heard like 200. And her songs do have that "oh that's different" factor. Landslide and Edge of Seventeen come to mind.

[@sahnebad]

Cool to hear you guys Talk about chords and melody for a bit! Love those talks and your insights :)

[@SongTownUSA]

We'll do more in some upcoming episode. If you check out our Live playlist here on youtube, I do some melody specific sessions :)

[@heartshinemusic]

I'm loving these conversations. It's inspiring and activating. I'm more in the pop/rock corner, but love some pop country, but I always write from a title. Almost always the title is a theme or concept. So the title has a specific meaning or perspective from the start, which helps a lot with being authentic. Keep the video's coming, cheers!

[@SongTownUSA]

Cool, A lot of our members are pop and rock. Write on! ~CM

[@mccloysong]

YES!! 1:23

[@samjrmusic]

Well the interesting thing he said about making songwriting an average. And looking for those who can write above or differently from that average, was very very inspirational. I hope that is the direction that songwriters can still follow to make success of their songwriting careers.

[@SongTownUSA]

Absolutely. Write on! CM

[@LucOggel]

Great video's and channel guys! So inspiring and motivating 👌🏻

[@SongTownUSA]

Glad you enjoy it!

[@jriccardi01]

If everyone wants that song that stands out or is fresh and different, why do we hear the same formulaic songs; same rhyming schemers, same subjects, same lines, autotune, same country singer impersonations for 99% of the songs?

[@SongTownUSA]

We definitely can go through periods like that. Especially if you are relying on algorithms to suggest songs for you. But listen to the top 10 songs in country right now. You will find a good amount of variety now. There's more focus on good songs now that cut through the noise. And there are a lot of vocal styles from Jelly Roll, to Dan & Shay, to Morgan Wallen, to Chris Stapleton, to Lainey Wilson. If you are trying to cut through the noise, I wouldn't suggest putting out average songs that sound like someone else. None of these artitss, do :)

[@counterspellband]

Why aren't you making that?

[@symonjamesmusic]

The magic beyond the formula … perfectly said

[@SongTownUSA]

Write on! CM

[@DavidPennybaker]

I can't figure out why some GREAT songs don't get cut (or take a LONG time to get discovered). I know of TWO right now that Gary Burr has written that nobody's cut, and they are some of the best I've ever heard. And quite a few like that by lesser-known writers. I always keep that in mind when people don't get excited about something I've written.

[@martydodson3774]

I think most of us feel that way!

[@BarrockoMusic]

You guys are awesome! Incredibly grateful 🙏

[@SongTownUSA]

Appreciate you watching. Write on! ~CM

[@hackwilson1467]

Chords and melody and vocals ❤

[@jcmacmusic]

Great conversation thanks guys.

[@SongTownUSA]

Appreciate you watching! CM

[@murielpalmer-rhea8250]

Follow-up to the preceeding comment: Am spending some time learning other rhythms like Reggae and Flamenco. Felt It could create additional interest..

[@SongTownUSA]

Write on! CM

[@aarongoodnow6170]

'Fred slacks' is a winner!

[@nolanstuckeysongs3859]

Amen brothers Clay & Marty...I've got a 1000 songs and 999.9 NO's...lol...!

[@SongTownUSA]

Write on!

[@martydodson3774]

Hopefully a "YES" is on the way!

[@alanbruce7]

Thanks guys, I got a lot out of this episode.

[@SongTownUSA]

You’re welcome buddy!

[@musingsofrock]

All good points but I have to disagree with the main reason. If a great song does not have the impact, it is always on the singer. I hate to say it but no one really cares about the song as long as it is decent. What they care about is the singer and his voice. If the singer can't sell that song, the songwiting being great will not save the song. For example, people wrote songs for Elvis and if Elvis sung that song, the songwriters would now be put on the map. The songwriters could have sung the song themselves or found somebody else. The reason the song is a hit is because Elvis sang it. Likewise, Elvis could even make a turd of a song into a hit because as I said, the only thing people relate to is the voice of the singer and the singer himself. Obviously, the song helps but as I said, Elvis has had hits with songs that were not that good. They became hits simply because of Elvis's voice and not the song itself.

[@JerryCalvert-x9u]

Good point about how songs fail because they dont stand out. Id say if you want them to stand out its very simple: 1) Make it personal to you. 2) Be completely honest.

[@SongTownUSA]

Write on! CM

[@martydodson3774]

Those are good places to start!

[@texrcanna]

on the subject of Summer. One time somebody was talking about Summer Squash and I replied Summer Squash some are not and it got a laugh so I wouldn't make the whole song that but it could be a cool line to through in

[@murielpalmer-rhea8250]

My new Companion Book is: “The Poetics of Rock” by Albin Zak; University of California Press 2001. The Contents page: “Writig Records”, Tracks, Places and Tools, Engineers and Producers (my favorite chapter includes commentary by some of the great Producers like Wexler, Eno, Martin, Sam Phillips. Thanks for this in-depth Pod. Worth its weight in Gold cds!

[@rexchiquine6049]

,,, good afternoon every buddy,,,

[@SongTownUSA]

back at ya! ~CM

[@wouterdesmedt1736]

"All they've done is raise the average" Well put, 100% agree so thank you for wording it so elegantly.

[@WorkingOnThatSong]

Guys how important are genres and new genres? Meaning would you rather have a new artist making music that doesn’t fit nearly into a genre but makes amazing music or an artist make amazing music for an established genre? . Or is it just case dependent? . I ask because when I write I tend to not worry at all about where it’s going but rather do I like the sound. The maybe start eventually realizing it’s heading into a genre or good for a genre. Hope that makes sense. Thank you!

[@SongTownUSA]

An amazing artist can impact and alter the course of a genre. Because they tend to find an audience if they are truly great. Both of the options you mention work. But I love unique artists who find a way to change a genre. Those are definitely few and far between. But music history is full of examples. Write on! CM

[@prschuster]

AI can never replace art of any kind, because all art is an expression of personal experience, and AI has no personal experience.

[@SongTownUSA]

Yes! CM

[@bjarnyg]

12:25 i've been thinking the same. will ai ever be able to write a HIT?

[@jonstephenson5436]

IV to iv is supposed to be an unusual change?! I learned a Jimmy Rogers song the other day with that change….. it’s ancient. The Beatles did it all the time. If anything this just says how bland a lot of songwriting is nowadays. “Four to four minor you say!!!? What’s next a dominant major third chord?! You madman!” I’m not trying to crap on the advice in this video, it’s good. I’m just disgusted with how narrow people’s expectations are. Most folks these days don’t like anything that challenges their expectations harmonically. I heard contemporary satellite country radio all day this last weekend, and it all sounded exactly the same to me. To put a finer point on my comment: Jason Isbell, Robbie Fulks, Sturgill Simpson, John Prine, Kacey Musgraves. These people write in a way that explores the full range of human emotions, and experience. Not cliche crap about a truck, or addiction recovery stories that sound manufactured. Not that simple concepts always make bad songs, I was just disappointed that I might have heard 2 ok songs in 8 hrs of windshield time. I guess what I’m saying is, “aim higher than the current country charts too”. Maybe I should write a song about that 😂. I sound cranky

[@SongTownUSA]

Which J Rogers song?

[@jonstephenson5436]

@ Miss the Mississippi and you. Now that I said it, I’m not positive his version has that change. I think it does though. In my head it sounds like it. To be clear friends, I love your videos. I also like the IV to iv change; I wasn’t trying to criticize that. I’ve been binging your videos because I’m starting to write songs. I’m 42, and I’ve been playing and singing since I was a kid, but only wrote songs when someone would ask me to write something funny, or maybe like a pastiche of an existing tune. Ive decided it’s time to stop being a chicken, and start putting stuff on paper, so thank you for this content. And my friends loved a bunch of the songs on the current country charts, so it’s probably just me. I haven’t listened to any top charts radio for quite a while, and I guess I don’t really get it anymore. I can’t shake the feeling that barely any of it will be memorable in 15 years. On the other hand, we listened to some Diamond Rio, and George Strait. We all knew most of the words, and everyone in the car enjoyed it.

[@SongTownUSA]

Cool. I studied arranging at Berklee in Boston, so I know all about writing sophisticated. lol. Hopefully you heard my Diamond Rio hit Beautiful Mess on your drive. It has much more than 4 chords ;) CM

[@jonstephenson5436]

@@SongTownUSA I like that song a lot. I’ve had several spells of my life that were pretty topsy turvy feeling but I loved every minute of it. Either in love with someone, or something. I have that kind of ADHD inspiration that tends to make me let all other things go when I have an obsession, so I relate. I don’t think just more sophisticated all the time is it…. But I do get excited when there is a little non-diatonic change in a modern song, because they seem pretty few and far between these days. Honest question…. I’m not trying to sound like some kind of snob, because I have no formal musical education. Why so few harmonic variations these days? Did the taste of the general populace really shift that far? Or are people afraid to try new things? Both? It’s so subjective too. I should probably just stick to saying “it doesn’t do anything for me”, instead of saying “bland”, I suppose. Any kind of music that I’ve ever criticized for being too simple, predictable, whatever, there is someone out there who is a much better musician than I’ll ever be, who loves it. So there is no superiority in acting like a snob.

[@SongTownUSA]

I take a long view. Music goes in cycles. Blues was awesome but it was often three chords and twelve bars… jazz developed out of it. Early rock was 3 chords and and within a period of time developed in the complicated yacht rock Songs.. which kids hated and they start simple punk songs. Country started out simply with three chords and then got real sophisticated starting in the eighties… the last decade it’s been back to fewer chords. But I’ve seen signs of that changing now. So the cycles continue. The good thing is today you aren’t bound to a radio. You can listen to whatever you like, anytime you like. So I focus 100% of my time on things that inspire me. Write on! CM

[@Dan-Tyler-Music]

What ypur forgetting is that ppl write the same womg because many ppl go through the same thing and ppl like familiarity, easier to relate, its the reason all music sounds the same

[@SongTownUSA]

Absolutely. Songs must be relatable. But, you can write about the same things and do it in a way that hasn’t been done before. That’s what makes a great song. And a great songwriter. :) -CM

[@NoCoverCharge]

All you need is G D and C that’s it …

[@SongTownUSA]

I’d get very bored with that :) CM

[@smileyfdave]

And a capo

[@3ManCult]

You guys are full-time pro songwriters with serious qualifications and skins on the wall. Question... how often have you run across someone who literally writes a one-hit-wonder that charts and clicks all the boxes, then never heard from again? Not because of a financial windfall, but because the song was literally an absolute stroke of brilliance wrapped in pure luck, timing, etc. And I'm not speaking of stupid im-a-moneybag-booty-banger lyrics that literally mean/say nothing and will soon be entirely replaced by AI. I mean REAL songs, from real one-hit songwriters. Just curious ???

[@SongTownUSA]

At this point I've seen about everything..lol. I have one friend that was a one hit wonder. Kept writing for 20 years and then had a few more. A lot of hard work, timing, luck, etc. But as a writer, you have to keep writing and striving to write better and better. It's the love of the craft that keeps you inspired. Write on! CM

[@3ManCult]

@@SongTownUSA Thanks for taking time to read comments and reply - I realize this channel is just a microcosm of your total paid content, and it's really cool that you guys keep bringing forward well-informed, and well-qualified songwriting information on your YT channel - there's a lot of "songwriting" channels on YT touting the latest secret to success - I basically ignore them all (apart from the raw entertainment value of click-bait headlines, LOL!!!) Thanks for being a true voice of reality on the topics at hand. I've only written a few songs, but people who have absolutely no reason to like them really seem to like them - a little validation goes a long way in life...

[@SongTownUSA]

Appreciate it! We try to share what we do everyday in writing rooms, so there's no secrets..just craft and experience :) Write on! CM