Why Gothic Knights Suck!

[@marcomeme4875]

It's a shame cause the gothic knights definitely look coolest

[@PixelatedApollo1]

yeah for sure!

[@mikek9910]

I used them for 2 years and this video showed me why I kept losing as HRE

[@fabianustertius6460]

LMAO

[@jaypea30]

Thats why you don't use them *No Gothic Knights allowed*

[@simplifiednews4235]

@@jaypea30 but they look nice

[@jonash3406]

I mean if you really wanna use them just get one as a flanking force

[@blueninja6728]

If medieval II were more realistic they would probably be #1

[@sosig6445]

The armor itself was just perfect, light and strong and doesn't restrict movement as much as the other plate armors did, normal arrows would bounce off only crossbows would have a chance against them.

[@rapidtreal4612]

not even crossbows only guns

[@RingoMonto]

Duchy of Mecklenburg-Schwerin Is there much historical showing for the teutonic knights being very op? I mean, I don't think the knightly order had any standardized sets of armour or weapons, or that their equipment or skills would have been any better than other knightly orders? On top of that the Teutonic knights in-game are of an earlier period than the gothic armour. Maybe some Teutonic order knights did use gothic armour in the real late medieval period though? I would agree that in-game their visual appearance is the most badass though. Sadly I'd guess those winged great helms probably weren't very common in real history either.

[@taloob493]

@@sosig6445 well there really was no well made plate armor that restricted movement

[@retardcorpsman]

Ringo The successes of the teutonic order was not because of their equipment but rather because of they’re better disciplined rank structures and organisation which allowed them to be much more successful than their Polish counterparts.

[@y0ur_local_smiles511]

nice vid apollo but the gothic knights have sick armour

[@PixelatedApollo1]

yeah they do!

[@michaeldog123ful]

ajay caruana They just cant use it really well.

[@michaeldog123ful]

***** Thats weird. Probably just a glitch

[@jacksaville6047]

Ajay caruana they don't have suck armour

[@williamknapp4492]

+Jack Saville it is pretty cool

[@landsknecht8654]

I cannot believe the game made Gothic Knights so weak compared on how they should be. First of Gothic armor was the best armor in the world of the time and I would dare to say the top three best metal armors of all time. Light, very strong thanks to fluting and ridges that adds the strength to the steel with out making it thicker, and they are knights so they are more than likely have heat treated steel that is fully hardened on top of that. Arrows are nothing to that armor in real life. The other thing is that two handed swords are amazing weapons and can still defeat a man with a shield with out too much trouble. Both have ups and downs but a sword like that can simply fined it's way around the shield. The game is good but a bit flawed.

[@theo4269]

+Landsknecht 86 The unit itself is good, its just the two-handed weapon glitch that makes them suck

[@landsknecht8654]

Theo Fullerton There is a glitch? Also if I remember right they had the foot Gothic Knights in the first Medieval Total War so bad ass, those guys beat just about everything around them short from a cavalry charge, and arrows did almost nothing to them too.

[@theo4269]

Landsknecht 86 There's something called the "Two-Handed glitch" where basically most units with two handed weapons, they attack slower than units with one handed weapons, so they are blocking more than they are attacking. They fixed this in the kingdom expansion backs but in vanilla they suck

[@landsknecht8654]

Theo Fullerton I just thought that the Gothic Knights were going to be so bad ass as they were in the first Medieval Total War. I mean they are Knights trained sens childhood. If anyone will read any real history as well as any real historical battles and documents you will fiend that Knights were very good warriors and that they are underrated in our history/media. Also the fact that they have Gothic armor should protect them very, very well.

[@rorschach1985ify]

Nice to see someone else who remembers and knows about the Gothic Foot knights in the original MTW. Looked at their stats from some unit guides and tested them out and yeah, they were really badass and more then made up for their slow speed and smaller unit size with their incredible stats. A shame that the DGK are so much weaker in comparison to other units unlike their original counterpart.

[@swisscheese8449]

I've found that Units like Varangian Guard and English /noble/ portugese knights seem to have less of a problem with the two handed glitch

[@jackdaone6469]

Those are the units that wield the poleaxe, right?

[@mckee7789]

@@jackdaone6469 yes

[@Chriscs7]

I use them in most of my battles as can verified in my sttreams and do very good. Varangians are my favorites

[@likliklik9515]

that's because their weapons have armour piercing on them, total game-changer. Now mounted gothic knights do also have AP, but then they have lower attack with their 1H mace than the 2-handed troops you mentioned AND they don't have a shield so still don't do that great.

[@Coolinjay04]

@@likliklik9515the dismounted 2 handed gothic nights also have AP?

[@HotZetiGer]

maybe some like to pay more for armor polishing :)

[@sakesaurus]

They might have lost in combat, but they surely were victors in grace of their harness! Defeats mean nothing for truly Chivalrious Knights (except they mean, probably, pretty much, everything)

[@daswordofgork9823]

I like how the ultimate evolution of plate armored knights suck balls in this game.

[@varidian694]

I hate how they all clash then 70% of the army steps back and watches

[@joevenespineli6389]

Because battles aren't bar brawls.

[@derekyohan1444]

@Josepene Espinili Yeah cause they have swords but in fights they fight tight to not get enemy's inside there army and have you heard of phalanx formations?

[@joevenespineli6389]

@@derekyohan1444 Are you really going to mock my name first?

[@derekyohan1444]

@Joeven espineli well my bad but I'm angered of your logic

[@joevenespineli6389]

@@derekyohan1444 I can't do anything about that, people have differing beliefs, perspectives, and eccentricities, I won't force anyone my own. But as a rebuttal to your mocking, I shall call you, Derelict Yahoo.

[@Deepstinkt]

Vanilla MTW2 unit balance is just broken.

[@hellavadeal]

In reality, the Gothic knights armor was good enough they didn't need Shields. The game doesn't seem to give them high enough defence points. Also their armor was arrow proof.

[@Sunxxet]

You sould use all two handed weapon units in loose formation. They will easily overpower any one handed weapon unit.

[@derekyohan1444]

@hellavadell but are they bolt crossbow proof?

[@akakios7386]

@@derekyohan1444 Yes, in fact some particularly late period armor was even bulletproof to a limited degree, armor was damn good. It was more economics and growing army sizes that ended the dominance of personal armor rather than the armor being defeated. Obviously an arrow or bolt hitting where the armor isn't is going to fuck you up though, and with enough projectiles flying, some are practically guaranteed to find some gap or weak point.

[@Nuncey]

I disagree

[@Sharp931]

It's a shock infantry, so you should use them as cavalry and use their charge bonus and never let them be alone against enemy.

[@ThatTonnatoTenrec]

The problem with that, is you can just use you know, Cavalry, and they would ussualy do a better role in that regard. Of course with something like Scots that have like 2 cav units sure, but even then Mailed Knights do a resonable job even if its the only thing you have.

[@steelwind2334]

@@ThatTonnatoTenrec Units with Shield always win prolonged combats vs no 1H/2H no shield. You should never use 2H trrops for long combat. Also use 2H in loose formation so they can encirle enemy and debuff morale. 2H swords and 3-4 meter pikes need some space you know...

[@dax5883]

A little piece of advise for anyone who doesn't know: Darthmod Medieval II, fixes this issue about 2 handers, Darth's very good at properly balancing total war games. Stainless Steel 6.4 is very good also, but I pick Darth because it doesn't crash, SS crashes a lot for me (and I have a £2,000 PC as of Aug 2020, so a new and powerful rig) I recommend Darthmod for its stability and as being the vanilla game essentially, but with major bug fixes and improvements. For instance, pikemen actually hold onto their pikes (never switch to their short swords) and so actually function as pikes.

[@juhannusruusu]

how about vanilla kingdoms EMF ?

[@ivanpavlov7260]

Late to the party, but JLMP's vanilla kingdoms is a very nice mod that also fixes pikemen bug, musketeers, a lot of units ( including gothic knights).

[@BaronUltimo]

Thank you for the hint

[@JurzGarz]

Hey, I know this is late but try making Stainless Steel Large Access Aware. The reason it crashes a lot is because Medieval 2 has a cap on how much processing power it’s allowed to draw, which means the more intensive mods can’t always process everything they need to. Large access aware fixes this (at least for me).

[@zhouwu]

He decides to rub it in by getting the Feudal Knights to just walk away from the routed dismounted Gothic Knights. Just not worth it, like he said. Ouch! Feel the burn!

[@geelen7829]

While playing on Total war kingdoms I was testing who was better with forlorn hope, Gothic knights, and zweihanders while being against dismounted Feudal knights. Surprisingly they (2h guys) won but Forlorn Hope took the least amount of casualties with personally I find Forlorn Hope better. Also their armor upgrade looks sick

[@Dr.CaveCurinas]

I know this is old but the "bug" that caused this was removed in Kingdoms

[@FifinatorKlon]

@@Dr.CaveCurinas Those twohanded cunts sure as hell shredded through my teutonic knights

[@mediant3]

Keep up the good work bro. I really enjoy your commentaries

[@PixelatedApollo1]

thanks man!

[@trevorthai1685]

Brilliant video series Apollo, and again Awesome commentary and explanation!!!

[@PixelatedApollo1]

thanks man!

[@Thongger]

dismounted feudal and chivalric knights were SOOOOO damn strong

[@juangarcia1046]

Today on my english class i had to explain the meaning of the word Salty, guess what video i was looking for :v

[@gabrielalexander4685]

It's a shame that with a unit like that they are broken. Although from reading the comments it seems that the GK's are fixed in the expansion pack and are fixed in stainless steel.

[@gamecubemaster1990]

Realistically, they should be better.

[@triplebluecakes3782]

I think they are meant to help hold the mainline, protect the archers and flank on the sides to help collapse the enemy's attack. While spear men are meant to hold the main enemy force. And of course cavalry is meant to stop enemy cavalry and strike from the rear to finish the unit. But this game is buggy, broken, unbalance and we all still love it.

[@BaronUltimo]

I don't think so. Those Two-Handers are meant to be heavy battle infantry with low protection against arrows (no shields) but great effectiveness in melee combat (where they suck however which makes them useless).

[@JackieFishHD]

hmmm I still don't believe you, I think they are great, I get 1000 of kills ez

[@brandonlee934]

Didn't vanilla gothic knights do well against the later knights that were more reliant on armor?

[@geelen7829]

To be honest I think the forlorn hope is one of the most underrated units in the game and personally I choose forlorn hope over goths

[@diegosousa8488]

On the stainless Stell mod they are Monster. But on vanilla game units without shields are all ducks xD

[@Samuel-iv4qt]

true, I rather play with the SS mod.

[@ejnaygfantzcg]

Medievel 2 kinda makes me think no developer ever played one battle during testing.

[@MetalHeadHellYeah]

yeah, the two handed bug is absurd... how could they not see it, at least they fixed it in kingdoms

[@eclipsemapping8594]

That sarcasm though Apollo. XD

[@NEY-uu3lx]

do you still watch him?

[@emperorofthegreatunknown4394]

The gothic knights suffer from a glitchy charge animation, but their attack and defense animations are alright (or perform similar to swordsmen with the same stats) Problem is they have stats of 14 14 while feudals have 13 22, so there is no contest.

[@theonderonian2931]

Apollo is so salty in this video.

[@dwarfie24]

Considering how annoying and know it ytcommebters get... I dont blame him.

[@derekyohan1444]

@The onderoinian sarcasm?

[@elephantofdoom]

Its worth pointing out they fixed the glitch in Kingdoms, which makes them much better.

[@roberttrue7219]

are there any mods that fix vanilla medieval 2? I'd enjoy it waaaaayyy more if it were more playable

[@jagartharn6361]

The cavalry Gothic Knights are pretty much invincible in Stainless Steel, and the dismounted ones are only beaten by any high end AP inf such as Pollaxes or Halberds.

[@FiresideBoomer]

I clicked on this video not knowing that it was about total war, for a second I was like "now listen here matey"

[@Keraau]

Nice. But maybe the gothic Knights were supposed to be relied on reinforcements from cavalry or at least more infantry. I think they were supposed to be the battle line whose main purpose would be to hold the line while rest of the force would try to flank or something like that (hence more blocks than attacks). I'm by no means a medieval warfare expert, or even proficient at this game, but given than my Knights block more than they attack, they are more aptly used as tanks (so more enemy units are targeting them) while the bulk of my forces are killing weaker units only to circle and finish the rest of them off.

[@TheStrandedAlliance]

That's why you get the Retrofit mod which contains the two handed fix from the Kingdoms expansion.

[@Torsengi]

ap was a great skill that makes weaker units able to kill other well armored units like dfk but it got nerfed after the 1.2 or 1.3 versions thats why units with that skill are sucks like gothics and janissaries even it efected veneterian heavy inf if you try them in 1.0 or 1.1 versions of m2t you can easly understand why so much people say that they are great because they were able to defeat conquristadores (sorry for bad english :)

[@RocketHarry865]

also sword and board units defensive skill is absurbly high. The best two handers only have a melee defensive skill that caps out 5 while dismounted feudal knights which are a common mid game sword and board armed unit has a starting defensive skill of 8 and this in addition to both their high armour and shield rating.

[@mrdepixelatedpotato6222]

Another great commentary but its za shame about 2h glitch but atleast in Teutonic expansion the HRE are one of the most powerful factions

[@PixelatedApollo1]

yeah very true

[@anomalec9466]

Thank god someone made this video.Thank you Apollo

[@jurisprudens2697]

Have you tried charging Gothic Knights in wedge formation? As I understand, their armoured improves their charge impact, which is particularly efficient if used in wedge. I tried charging Lancers in wedge against Chivs , and their kill them

[@theimperialowl1011]

Out of curiosity, are 2-handed units good in siege in the expansions? I know they fixed the 2-handed bug, and while they'd probably still suffer in the field, I'm curious how they do in expansion shields.

[@CaptainInvisible1]

They didn't "fix" the 2-hander glitch as much as they buffed 2-handers and weakened sword and shield infantry, which still helped a lot. It depends where you are using the in the siege. Taking the walls and attacking choke points will always end badly for all units. But they do better at crushing armoured foes, and get them in the courtyard and they have the freedom to flank.

[@cc-bk3tx]

Well the way with how two handlers should be used is by flanking there opponent rather than charging by themselves so that was the mistake there

[@darthmongoltheunwise8776]

I never really bother going for the expensive units that are hard to replace because you need high quality forts to get them. Usually i just use armies which have somewhat small numbers of infantry, large numbers of cavalry and crossbowmen or if there are no crossbowmen, then either archers or horse archers. I just see little to no point in wasting money to higher tier units that cost a lot to get and upkeep.

[@darklysm8345]

If ca go to reality with the gothic knights Are much stronger Impossible to a arrow penetrate a gothic armor

[@darklysm8345]

@Anne Isopod lol what See videos Arrows cant penetrate late plate armor

[@7777-z7p]

@Anne Isopod Warbow's with bodkin tips had trouble penetrating chainmail and gambeson. It couldn't penetrate plate armor. No way in hell could it penetrate gothic or italian plate armors.

[@LordVader1094]

@The Cornfield It's not a ridiculous claim, missiles simply couldn't penetrate plate armour.

[@Khang602]

Gothic Knights are use for charging.

[@blasty137]

Dismounted feudal knights are the most important unit in single player, they're a total game changer. Once you've got your first fortress and started recruiting DFK you just steamroll over everything else. Also the Creative Assembly did a poor job at balancing units, especially late-game ones. Many of them are not even worth getting because they are either worse or just slightly better than mid-game ones. Feudal knights and dismounted feudal knights are more than enough to beat the campaign.

[@RocketHarry865]

I think feudal knights and dismounted feudal knights need a nerf. To the point they can still destroy lightly armoured commoner soldiers easily but will struggle against heavily armoured knights. Also I think Feudal Knights should be era locked to Early and High peroid. Once the late Medieval Peroid hits around the start of the 15th century feudal knights and dismounted feudal knights should no longer be recruitable and you are forced to replace them with more 'modern' units

[@lucfxgambitgaming7494]

They're the most bad ass looking as well, those helms and mail look sick

[@TheRiboka]

If you play 1.1 or 1.2 patch they do awesome actually. Always beat feudal knights and all the 2 handed units in the game for me

[@LacunaTurneri]

Does the 2 handed glitch happen in third age total war?

[@jaystrickland4151]

These is a fix. It is caused by an attack animation that does zero damage. One handed units have this to but it is a shield bash ( or a punch) which does not reset the attack of the weapon. You do need to remove the zero attack animation for both in the fix of two handers become broken in the other direction.

[@TB--sp9wy]

the sarcasm is priceless! !

[@kindacruise]

i dont even play this game anymore but for some reason my brain consists of 90 percent total war strategy

[@morten99DK]

Could you do a video of Dismounted Huscarls vs. Dismounted Feudal Knights? I've heard so many rumors about this.

[@windwaik3r689]

Me too. If you were to do another comparison could you show huscarls?

[@NightH4wkG4ming]

nise job bud sick of hearing there the greatest aswell but i have to admit that just look so slick!

[@kaptain_krunch]

Any two-handed unit in this game pretty much blow chunks. The highlander nobles and Janissaries both also get destroyed against any standard dismounted feudal knights.

[@Poggle_der_Geringere]

You say two-handed glitch, does that affect every "Zweihänder"-wielding unit in the game? Like Canons of the Holy Sepulcher in Crusades expansion or Forlorn Hope from the Empire? Are they any good? Duel-handed axes are all right aren't they? They seem to be... Would love to see you make a video explaining this further :3

[@pawarsauza3042]

2 handed glitch doesnt affect every two handed unit, just most of them.

[@CaptainInvisible1]

Revan Ar-Pharazôn The bug was partially fixed in the kingdoms expansion, so the Canons of the Holy Sepulcher will not be affected too badly. It is much more noticeable in the vanilla game. The only units I know to be relatively unaffected by the bug are halberd units. Does not make up for their got awful stats though.

[@countmarkula1993]

I think people just wanted Gothic Knights to be on the list because they are a unique unit. Unfortunately they are also unique in how bad and expensive they are.

[@chofa135]

Gothic knights are like cavalry but they are infantry, charge with them on the flanks meanwhile a tanky unit distract them

[@Uragan00829]

@@chofa135 But at a price of 810 florins, wouldn't it better to recruit actual cavalry?

[@chofa135]

@@Uragan00829 of course 🤣

[@rogueassassin5752]

So this is the the test game that pirate was telling me of

[@PixelatedApollo1]

yeah lol

[@finnryyr2428]

Disregarding price and the Two-handed glitch, they have really shitty morale, also in terms of defense and attack, they are beat by Venetian Heavy Infantry and Dis. Conquistadors.

[@warwickthekingmaker7281]

this is just for multiplayer though. In campaign the only cost that matters is upkeep, and the feudal knights are extemely expensive

[@J.J.1798]

Does that apply to the Gotland unit?

[@jesustapia6678]

guys just go to your files and give gothic knights unit "4 hit points " so they are harder to kill...

[@TheBennyRy]

I think its hard to judge (at least for the foot soldiers) based on a vid where you compare them to onehanded infantery. It goes with all the two handed units in the game, no matter what they are, let it be Gothic knights, Zweihander, Jannissary, Halberdiers, twohanded Axemen etc. If you let them fight one on one vs a simple infantery unit such as these feudal knights who have one handed weapons, they will get destroyed because they all have that blocking bug which makes them shit ass slow. So just because of that to say that "gothic knights suck" I find a bit vague, because the other two handed units suck equally in this game. With the cav however I totally agree

[@Nuncey]

I agree only except the Gothic Knights mounted versions does not have a shield so that kind of negates their defense plus I believe they’re shock cavalry not “Melee Cavalry”. I believe you got to look at this way those two handed units and the French Lancers French Gendarmes and Gothic knights are “Late Period” units this is around the time “Pike and shot” formations became of existence. The two handers jobs were to break up pike formations, flank and dismantle cavalry units as well. That’s just my take on it so that begs the question why are we pitting Late Period units against High and Early Period units when the latter two were heavily focused on sword and shield combat?

[@adolfhipsteryolocaust3443]

​@@Nunceyactually it simply is that the game doesn't account for the fact they didn't have a shield because their armour was better than shield, thus making shielded units better

[@robertmihai2023]

i don't even play this game but still enjoyed this video. Gothic Knights watched Revenge of the Sith and saw the style (Soresu) of Obi-Wan-Kenobi of only defending himself until the enemy surrenders.

[@krakenvshydra]

Have they fixed that glitch in stainless steel

[@NaCk210]

and it's not like mounted gothic knights have a reason to be missing the shield

[@TheLEO609]

This need to be a UNIT MOD some how. this needs to be fixed. maybe have the Gothic Knights use one hand to a "two handed" sword and some kind of shied to fit their style. hahaha just and idea.

[@TheLEO609]

+Simon Bourdin oh yeah that makes perfect sense thank you so much for that knowledge mann; so really the designers should've patched or someone modded this Unit's stats so it would be buff up to all units if not most. Still keep the same price & weapons though... just have it be a lot more deadly & a greater effective Unit to restore closer to the historical accuracy. I truly Agree with this comment & believe you've did some research on it. In History that unit was one of a most deadliest knights ever dispatched and should be more respected as so.

[@TheLEO609]

+Simon Bourdin There Kind of like medieval Heavy Tanks and should be.

[@TheLEO609]

+Simon Bourdin yeah probably. Balance is pretty much key to it.

[@a.sandrocagliostro2517]

Does Stainless Steel 6.4 eliminate the 2 hand glitch?? Actually, the thing with the shield is important.

[@Shadowbow1000]

Since the game is on steam, wouldn't patches be possible?

[@nateharlow1388]

The only thing I found Gothic Knights useful for is charging into a stationary unit that isn’t charging back. In that case they can inflict quite a bit of charge damage but once that initial shock is over they’re pretty bad and not worth the price.

[@echo12100]

I like the Gothic Knights cavalry it's mostly how you use them that makes them good. I use them for powerful charges that break up solid lines, and then take them out of the fray as admittedly they aren't good with prolonged 1 to 1s as the video shows, they don't suck they're just found wanting in moments where they're expected to flatten the opposition, just my opinion btw but fair point they are very expensive compared to most units.

[@echo12100]

I know most other heavy cavalry is used the same way it's just that Gothic Knights cav has a flare in charges that other cav does not have. Again my opinion hope you reply to what you think of this.

[@Nuncey]

Dude I’m 8 years late and I agree so much with your point of view! Thumbs up 👍🏾

[@_Gandalf_The_White]

Who wants this game to be remade with modern graphics but realistic stats (gothic knights crushing and decapitating everything around them), personally I feel the only realistic way you could beat armour was to plan beforehand and choose an environment where armour would do more damage than good (deserts, frozen lakes, hills, muddy bogs).

[@bosnjakkevin]

It's all late periode units. Jannisary heavy infantry, Jannisary archers and Gothic knights. HI Pirate :D

[@notapplicable6316]

Why didn't they ever patch the glitch

[@ernstroland3519]

how about stainless ?they have the bugg too ?

[@weebslayer3411]

People call it a glitch but I thought about it and... It must be really hard to wave a big fucking sword around like a parade baton

[@caboongtheloremaster669]

How about Gothic Knight in Stainless steel mod, sir?

[@augiedoggy6436]

That's a mod, if you fine any mod you can make any unit better.

[@leifcampion9290]

Yeah I believe they fixed this glitch in stainless steel, and gothics perform better

[@krekk2751]

+Leif Campion two handed glitch doesnt exist

[@dax3116]

thankfully theres a darthmod of this game so it fixes the "bug" its really just a balancing issue to stop two handers being overpowered, but even with the darthmod fixes theyre not over powered because they have less missile and melee defence i wish CA hadnt messed with that because without mods the unique faction units are unplayable. and come on everyone plays the HRE for gothic foot knights

[@blacktemplar9499]

realisticly gothic knights should destroy those units german knights are pretty much the most elite soldiers in the medieval ages and they have very good armour

[@CaptainInvisible1]

Like France, the Holy Roman Empire held its knights in high regard. Gothic plate was developed alongside the Milanese Maximilian plate, and was considered one of the most advanced full plate armours of its time. Henry VIII idolised German knights, and copied their armour in his own jousting design. I am not sure how realistic it is for them to be armed with Zwei-handers. Such weapons where specialised for cutting through pike formations, and would be unwieldy against other dismounted knights. A mace and shield combo would make more sense, or even a pole-axe.

[@narcisoferreira9976]

@@CaptainInvisible1 There are some cases of mounted knights using great swords for reach and if you read the unit card I thin it says that after they were dismounted in battle they fight on foot and make good infantry normally a zweihander was used to knock aside pikes but they were still great main battlefield weapons and if you are dismounted in the field you fight with the weapons you brought sutable or not some knights would even break their lances to make makeshift spears when they were forced to fight on foot

[@publiozinj4882]

Did you take into account upkeep cost?

[@dalmacietis]

Ok, so the infantry unit is affected by a glitch. But why do the mounted knights lose even with AP attack?

[@chofa135]

Because the Shield adds more value than the armor Pierce removes. Also gothic knights dont have a shield. Edit: I was wrong 😂 both shields and AP add and reduces defense by 4

[@dalmacietis]

@@chofa135 But gothic knights have more armor? GC have 10 armor, 0 shield, Hosp have 7 armor, 4 shield. Is shield better in frontal melee than armor?? And then it also needs to counterbalance the AP...

[@dalmacietis]

I mean, here is the calculation as i understand it: Hosp have 7 armor (which is ignored) so 0 + 4 shield + 5 defence = 9 GC have 10 armor + 0 shield + 5 defence = 15 Attack is 13 for both. How are GC losing?

[@chofa135]

@@dalmacietis First at all im not an expert but there are more stats wich arent compared like discipline and training wich Hospitaller have better than GC also AP halves the armor so H will have 3 armor "7 rounded down" 5 defense skill and 4 Shield 12 in total vs 15 of GC. In atack H 14 vs 13 of GC. So I think Hospitaller wins because their "Training" stat wich is Highly trained VS the Trained of GC In discipline H have Normal VS Low of GC And both have 11 morale. Hope this can help but as I said before im a amateur jajajaja 😄

[@chofa135]

@@dalmacietis Remember a lot of units have 2 weapons in this case cavalry both have 13+8 atk with lances and charge bonus but then Hospitaller pull out the swords 14Atk +4 if they charge and GC use maces 13 +4 if they charge. In some cases units with bows are quite good in melee combat like Noble Highland Archers wich have 9+3 AP "bowmen with axes 😂" and 5 armour 4 defense skill and 3 shield so you can use them to destroy militias or in siege towers after a good melee unit to protect them and they will shoot from the enemy walls

[@romand65]

this bug with animation was fixed in mods millions years ago :)))

[@katyaquino6192]

how do you get Gothic Knights without dlc

[@matapegheata7257]

What about dismounted portugese knights?

[@thiagobezerra5772]

When I saw someone whit Gothic Knights I already know that he is noob.

[@hardrockfreak1337]

Thiago Vor Maybe he wants to use a subpar army that he finds cool. He might have known it was a subpar choice.

[@thiagobezerra5772]

And when he uses Gothic Knights, Zwei-handed and Forlon Hope. What do you think??

[@Soviless99]

Dont all 2 handers suck in m2tw? Which is annoying cuz they look sick

[@thebestmuricanstopmotion3921]

Who is watching this in 29.9.2017?

[@jidk6565]

Why are all cool units buggy?

[@BlueFan99]

Bro, just go to data folder, unit text file and give them 2 hit points

[@lorikcana7451]

What's the two handed glitch? I always use dismounted portuguese knight and they're very good...

[@CaptainInvisible1]

Lorik Cana The 2 handed glitch affects all 2 handed pole-armed, axe and sword wielding heavy infantry. Their slower attack animations are constantly interrupted by sword and shield infantry. They spend most of their time blocking attacks instead of attacking, which for a unit with 21 attack and only 13 defense (I think that is right for Dismounted Portuguese knights) is a a big problem.

[@lorikcana7451]

Captain Invisible thanks, but my dismounted portuguese knights do good against elite units. Anyways, thanks for answering me

[@TheRealKiRBEY]

I never even heard of this game and this was in my recommended

[@lordhermis8718]

Go buy it

[@TheRealKiRBEY]

@@lordhermis8718 Fuck i just spent the 40$ on other shit

[@ECKSway]

Could I ask which version of the game this is? Is it vanilla and v1.3+?

[@googleistdoof6656]

Bugs and cost/value calculations aside - why tests troops by sending them against "same type" troops? Who does that in battle? The point of foot knights is to fight spearmen or really anything *but* foot knights unless they've been softened up by xbow, the last unit I'd charge knights into is *another* unit of knights. That's like testing polish nobles against jinetes or charging them straight into knights. Instead send both compared troops against the same third "victim" unit.

[@Calvert1212]

is there a way to mod it where 2 handed weapons are somewhat better?

[@Userius1]

Play Stainless Steel mod or the Kingdoms campaigns.

[@PeruvianPotato]

No joke, there was this one player that just spanmed Gothic Knights and I easily pelted them down with my archers and English Knights

[@spxdel8520]

but i have to notice the infantry did fight to the last man

[@chrisjohnson6265]

This means the peasants are the best yes!!!!!!

[@steretsjaaj2368]

Is this glitch fixed in definitive edition now?

[@MetalHeadHellYeah]

no, vanilla medieval 2 still has the bug, but it's fixed in kingdoms

[@doctordakka5930]

I'm assuming that Zweihanders and Forlorn Hope have the same problem >.>

[@CaptainInvisible1]

Yes, but worse. The Zweihanders have weaker stats and there are half as many Forlon hope in the unit. They don't stand a chance.

[@kgius7434]

Venice has the best unit

[@IAmTheStig32]

Venetian heavy infantry are the complete opposite of Gothic knights, they are glorious.

[@макслюлюкин]

in fact, the Venetian infantry fighting on the side of The Golden Horde in the battle of Kulikovo field in 1380 completely destroyed the Moscow Grand Duke Dmitry Donskoy, without much hassle

[@irappzz2405]

in the expansion the dismounted version has better stats costs a lot less and without the glitch they can almost anything with their charge

[@idlenessss]

the mounted gothic knights are actually worth it. Their defense is armor and not sheild which means it works against things attacking from the rear and from the right side. So they have more survival in general than the hospitaller. Also their armor piercing means that if they are going to win (like some charge from the rear), they win quickly. Exactly how you want cavalry to work. So their cost is justified for reasons other than single unit vs single unit battles...they just perform better in the general chaos of the battlefeild.

[@de4en6er]

Charles Thompson yes, but there is mounted Teutonic knights that also have AP. And Teutonic knights cost less and have shields

[@leoncao8327]

ur funny