Why Has Fiat Not Succeeded In America? It Isn't Reliability... It's Prestige

#acwj #fiat
Fiat has released their new 500e - a $32k EV with only about 150 miles of range.
After years of struggle, why do they continue to not be competitive in the US market? While some argue the easy point that they're just "unreliable", I believe that doesn't matter to the masses of buyers.
It's Value, and Fiat doesn't offer it. The older gas-powered 500 was fun, but didn't get great gas mileage for such a small car, and one that was comparativelyl expensive.
Here's a almost modestly priced EV, but with very low range that wouldn't have been competitive 10 years ago.
Fiat is a mainstream brand in Europe, but here in the US they consistently position themselves as a more premium offering, wanting desperately to be MINI.
Oh, let me know what you think of this more walk-and-talk style video! Should I do more of it?
Be sure to subscribe to our channel and show the love!
This channel is supported by viewers like you! Please consider supporting our histories and news-pinions: / allcarswithjon
Got a Car you'd like to see me review? Just fill in this easy form to reach out to me!
forms.office.com/r/YdDkTnJRfr
OMG! We're on Instagram now!
/ allcarswithjon

[@AllCarswithJon]

Thanks for watching, would love your opinion..... What do you think of this "walk-and-talk" style video? I'm thinking of doing more like this and appreciate your feedback!

[@johncarync]

This format has a feel of "auto musings and thoughts with a friend." I think it's appropriate for this type of video.

[@AllCarswithJon]

@@johncarync Thanks for the feedback. I actually just recently discovered Tom Scott and he inspired me to try the format (there's another one coming Saturday). The difference is he is very, very good at it and has someone holding the camera and walking backwards. I'm DIYing it. :)

[@adrianmonk4440]

Good stuff Jon 👍

[@TheGbeecher]

I like it...certainly good for your health...😊

[@colinschmitz8297]

I think it's fine.

[@servicerifle16]

Fiat should just bring back the regular 500 and sell it for less than $20k. With most brands discontinuing their economy car lines Fiat could find their niche in the US market.

[@AllCarswithJon]

And that's my point. They should be an extremely affordable option for, you know.... SALES. But they seem to think they're "premium" and comparable to Mini.... Price would fix many things for their market share.

[@seed_drill7135]

They went to the trouble of building them in Mexico to avoid strong currencies and high labor costs, but they were still overpriced and money losers.

[@TassieLorenzo]

The current model Fiat Tipo / Dodge Neon (Type 160) is pretty cheap in Mexico isn't it? That could be a good economy car in the US. It's still manufactured in Mexico, so assuming it meets US regulations it should be trivial to import it under the NAFTA zone. The problem with selling economy cars is that dealers (or indeed auto manufacturers) don't like them as the profit margins are minimal.

[@dawsonbalencia3119]

Howdy Jon! FIAT historian here and you brought up excellent points I would love to touch on right quick. FIAT seems to operate under an assumption that the US market has the same nostalgia for the 500 as they do in Europe where as of late they’ve seen great sales growth (alongside South America, remember that for later). However the 500 wasn’t sold over here at least in large numbers but remained a foreign icon much like the Citroen 2CV. What we DID get were cheap, quirky family cars such as the 124 and 850 platforms, and the massively successful sports cars both on the 124 chassis and the 850s and of course the X1/9 and one of the reasons they sold so well can be seen in their advertisements. They were dirt CHEAP. Sedan, sports car, wagon, you name it started at a thousand or more dollars under American and Japanese competition, and their economic powertrains (which were largely bulletproof provided regular maintenance, as I can personally attest) ensured wider success than FIAT likely expected, particularly post-gas crisis where a lightweight convertible sports car with rally heritage could net you 20-28mpg for around a thousand less than a Mustang II. So what of today? Let’s go back to South America, where FIAT remains the best selling brand. They provide small cheap SUVs (including Abarth versions), I believe they might still have the Tipo sedan still, the Panda economy hatch and it’s 4wd variant, and three separate off-road and work-ready pickup trucks. All of these cost less at base price than $28,000 if my memory serves me correct, and most of them start at below $20,000 (one can get a few bare-bones models for under $10,000) Now tell me, how many cars sold in the USA have a dedicated niche eked out for sub-20k vehicles? Vehicles which are capable, economical, and easily serviced at that? The list is small, and in this economy is shrinking daily. This I believe is what FIAT needs to bring to the USA. Not a nostalgic, stylish brand such as they had touches of prior to WW2, but the economy and utility giant they grew to be starting in the 1950s. I have little hope they will do so, but that’s their decision and I fear it will not last here in the states. In the meantime I will occupy myself with my older FIATs and older cars in general, and miss eras we will never see again alongside other classic car enthusiasts. Great video and keep up your good work!

[@AllCarswithJon]

Appreciate the comment! "FIAT Historian"? Is that a hobby or a paid position? :)

[@dawsonbalencia3119]

@@AllCarswithJon I certainly wish it was paid!

[@obesetuna3164]

I am not an EV kind of person, and this Fiat is no economy car akin to what the original 500 was designed to be. Nor can I really stomach the modern Mini. In the past, being British, I have owned the original Mini, the Mini Metro - a car that was never sold in the States - a number of the older models of Fiat, Renault's, Citroen's, and more. Quite simply, there was a huge market in Europe for cheap small cars. In these SUV days however, that no longer seems to be the case.

[@davinp]

$32K is expensive for a small 2 door car

[@gabrielv.4358]

For me its cheap. Here it's $200.000

[@josthugel1137]

Hi Jon, thank you very much for all your great videos and the work behind it. Very informative. We already bought a FIAT 500 e as a convertible in Germany in December 2020 in a really expensive opening edition called "La Prima". We agree - way too expensive! But this thing is so much fun! We actually drive 25,000 km per year and are now already at more than 85,000 km. Very reliable, very economical and a pure joy to drive. We just read out the battery a few weeks ago: 0.0% degradation in the Samsung SDI battery. Good news. But it remains the same and you are absolutely right - far too expensive! Best wishes from Germany to the USA ... Josh 👍

[@AllCarswithJon]

Thanks so much for the comment! Not having any degradation in the battery in 3.5 years is fantastic! I'm glad you love it, and Best Wishes from USA!

[@SeattleSoulFan]

Reliability has a bearing on prestige. As a baby boomer I can't speak to young people's perceptions today, but I had a '71 Fiat 128 in the 1970s. Not only did it live up to the "Fix it again Tony" stereotype, it was also showing signs of rust when it was a few years old. At one point there was a recall where the local dealer injected some rustproofing compound into the front crossmember. Didn't give me a lot of confidence in the car. One day in San Francisco I was driving around near the ocean and saw another 128. It had the 5 mph bumpers, so it was newer than mine, and it had even more rust.

[@danr1920]

Fiat's model lineup was just wrong. Too small and way too small. Having had an unreliable once, now it's very important to me. The 500 had no history here. Because E cars sell so well. Mini's aren't selling that good either.

[@itsseanl]

When I was looking for my first car after college in 2017, I landed on a 2013 fiat 500 abarth. Still driving it today and i love it, so I have a soft spot for fiat as well. If they had a full lineup i definitely would've considered buying new at some point. I do like the 500x, but no manual option is lame, and theyre being discontinued anyway. Its a shame because I really hate the huge car trend, and Fiat could offer a great alternative to that if they actually tried

[@stoneylonesome4062]

Albanian here - whilst 3/4ths the cars on our roads are classic Mercedes Diesels, a sizable portion of the other 4th are FIATs, namely original 500’s and Panda 4X4’s. I own a 67 FIAT 500 back home (live in USA now), and it would break down a fair bit, but it was always easy to fix - while an issue with a Mercedes W123/W124/W126 might take a few weeks and other mechanics to fix, a FIAT 500 can be fixed by yourself over a course of the weekend in your own garage. Ultimately I think that the Citroën 2CV is much better than a 500 - many Albanians own them, and they can be fixed in an afternoon, they make Beetles and 500’s look complicated in comparison, are much more reliable, and much more practical.

[@fyodor8008]

Dear Jon, I love

[@oliskeith7962]

Your comments were Brilliant. No one is going to pay that much for a tint car. I want them to succeed as well. My advice would be slow the roll on electric. Switch the 500 to hybrid and lower the price. Maybe have a luxury model to compere with mini , like a 500 S , with leather GPS, but keep the price cheaper than many. Also make a commitment to this market. Super bowl ad

[@replica1052]

maybe a kei truck version with 500 styling, a bigger battery, longer wheelbase and 4 wheel drive

[@UncleJoeLITE]

Now you're talking! A 2000s Nissan Figaro is a better car than any modern FIAT.

[@replica1052]

@@UncleJoeLITE the figaro was only available as a sedan -the 500 is fiat's best looking car

[@adrianmonk4440]

Years ago (~1975), I test drove a "Strata." It had an almost horizontal, HUGE steering wheel. Forget something standard you could whip around. IT MADE ME FEEL LIKE I WAS DRIVING A CITY BUS !!!

[@joeseeking3572]

"Strada" - street in Italian

[@gordonwallin2368]

The Fiat 500 Aberth was so cool. Cheers from the Pacific West Coast of Canada.

[@LifeAfterLosing]

Fiat should have been an economy car brand from the beginning. Nobody will ever think of them as special. They could have a whole lineup of basic Italian styled cars that are simple with a more basic price. That’s what is needed today. Bring the Panda and the Multipla.

[@Black-Villain]

I think it's just a case of wrong products personally. The 500 back in the early 2010's had an anemic base engine (IMHO), and cost ~$20-22k depending on the trim... and quite frankly most Americans aren't willing to give up space/practicality unless it costs less (i.e. why buy a 500 when I can get a Versa or Sentra for cheaper). Then you have the 500L. Not much needs to be said about that poor excuse for a vehicle. The 124 Spider I quite liked, but the Miata has more brand recognition, and a 2-seater convertible is a niche market unfortunately Then you have the 500X, which while not bad, is just a rebadged and more expensive Jeep Renegade from a brand with no recognition... There was no reason to pick it over the Renegade. Now you've got the new 500e, which again isn't bad in a bubble.... But it costs over $30k for a subcompact city car and doesn't qualify for the tax credit. You have to have a very specific customer with enough disposable income to have one as a second car vs the average consumer who would much rather have a RAV4 for the same money. Or a Tesla Model 3 after state incentives depending on where you live. Or a Nissan leaf. Or a Chevy Bolt. Overseas Fiat has the new 600 which is a compact EV or Hybrid CUV, which might do well here depending on the price. They've got the Tipo. And of course the Panda. Why have these not had a go in the US market. At least the 600 should have had a chance, it was/is built from the ground up fairly recently, so they had plenty of opportunity to make it meet US regs. I don't know if this is leftover FCA management mess, or Stellantis just not knowing what to do in the US market or what

[@parkergray5346]

Fiat is trying to push their vehicles as if we already have a high image of them. That’s the issue. We don’t. If they went back to their roots and sold a small, easy to work on, fuel efficient, and most importantly an extremely cheap vehicle they would gain a good reputation. They are a small, hard to work on, extremely unreliable, meh fuel economy, and expensive. They cost so much and they have zero true benefits.

[@stoneylonesome4062]

When I lived in Albania, I drove a ‘67 FIAT 500. It would break down a fair bit, but it was usually easy to fix - it would take a weekend to do an “engine out” job by yourself. Citroën 2CV was even better because it would only take a few hours - but ultimately, we prefer Classic Mercedes Diesels - it’s just that working on it yourself would take a week or two.

[@robertalshamma-oo3sh]

I fondly recall the 70s Fiats like the 124 Spider and Coupe, and I own a 81 spider. These cars were far from perfect and Fiat did nothing to improve their shortcomings. The spider could have been great but they were too cheap to modernize and develop the product as the years went by. The new cars have no connection with the old. With BMW you can see some continuity in design over the years, yet the new cars are up to date. I thought the 500 was great and then it went stale. The 500L was an uncool freak. And the new Spider was a rehashed Mazda with a crappy Chrysler motor. Who do they think they are fooling?

[@k.b.tidwell]

First off, your mic sounds fantastic. Sounds like you're in a studio instead of outside on a windy day. Awesome. Even at today's prices, that 500 is worth maybe $17,000 and I'm feeling generous with that. Fiat should have shot out a four door like a Camry or Accord priced proportionately less for the status level. I'd test drive it at least.

[@TassieLorenzo]

"Fiat should have shot out a four door like a Camry or Accord" That was the Chrysler 200 wasn't it, but FCA cancelled that? I don't think Fiat have any other sedans as large as a Camry or Accord (apart from Alfa Romeos or Maseratis) as such large vehicles (without a prestige brand) don't sell in the European market and it doesn't fit Fiat's market position. The Toyota Corolla-sized Fiat Tipo / Dodge Neon is Fiat's largest current sedan/hatch model AFAIK.

[@AllCarswithJon]

Thank you SO much for the mic compliment! It's 6:15am and you've made my day! Actually, it's a cheap, chinese wireless mic by a brand called Hotec. I've used it for years and it's honestly just "OKay". BUT, I found that Adobe has a free service (I think it's called 'podcast') and you can upload an audio file, their "AI magic" happens, and it comes back sounding like you were in a studio.... most of the time. It's absolutely magic and I've been experimenting with it for my outdoors videos. Oh, and yes. I think if Fiat had come in with the 500 as a screaming price deal, they could have sold tons of them. :)

[@k.b.tidwell]

@@TassieLorenzo I guess it was, and contrary to all logic the 200/Dart didn't turn me completely off, aside from all the standard Chrysler electrical issues. (You'd think Lucas did all their electrical, wouldn't you?) It was a fairly attractive entry in that segment, and what could have been a proper low/mid-priced daily driver. But I was referring strictly to a Fiat-branded sedan that would have put Fiat out there as a serious(?) entry in the sedan market. You'd really just think they'd want to be more to the market than a Toyota Echo-esque car 30 circus clowns might pile out of.

[@michaeloreilly657]

The 500 has just been discontinued in Europe. Old design with safety issues, too expensive to fix. Only budget car remains the Panda. Fiat will be putting a hybrid combustion engine in the 500e to help with sales. Sometimes Fiat marketing people have notions of grandeur, but the market usually dissolves them and reality resumes.

[@AllCarswithJon]

Thanks. I (somehow) missed that news about the 500

[@colinschmitz8297]

In my view, Fiat strategy seems to have been to copy BMW and place Fiat as a mini competitor and alfa Romero as a BMW competitor. On both fronts this hasn't worked. As I'm sure you've figured out by now I'm not particularly fond of BMW but the bottom line is the mini was the first company to reestablish itself in the US following the revival of the Volkswagen beetle. Fiat came to the game way too late to pull this off and they are not leading they are following. I will agree that the quality was not as bad as some people make it out to be but it really just doesn't do anything particularly well. If it were the reliability King in contrast to mini, Not to mention the more generic competitors, they would stand out in that capacity. The other problem is I don't think minis are as popular as it used to be in the revived beetle is gone. The segment stalled. The other part is launching a new brand or relaunching in this case is a tricky thing. The way Kia.and Hyundai handled it was they came in cheap and offered a good warranty. As time went along, the fit and finish, design, and styling got a lot better. The reliability I'm not convinced changed very much but it was good enough. With Fiat, they put in a half baked effort without a good warranty to entice or a good price to entice. The way they could have done this in other words the way I would have done it, they should have considered utilizing familiar brands that they own. The Fiat 500 could have been badged as a Chrysler to replace the PT cruiser or Fiat could have revived a recently deceased division like Plymouth to sell Fiat models under. Although I'm not sure that either of these would have made the car smashing success, I think it would have done better than what they had. The other part is with Italian cars, aside from exotic cars, they just don't have enough mainstream appeal.

[@Rudenbehr]

Why would any car brand aspire to even compete with Mini in the first place? It's not like they're well regarded in the US market anyway. Fiat wants to die LOL.

[@mrgurulittle7000]

That’s a good point. Mini is popular in cultures that love cute stuff like Japan, but why would Fiat go that route as their strategy for the US? I don’t get it either. They should just bring over their small Maverick competitor, the Strada pickup to the US and see how their sales explode.

[@seed_drill7135]

Chicken tax makes it uncompetitive.

[@gabrielv.4358]

@@mrgurulittle7000 Here in Brazil it was always a sucess since it's release. I doubt USA people would like a small truck, seeing there are train sized trucks there

[@chevycamaro78]

@@gabrielv.4358 I have to respectfully disagree. There are quite a few people here in the US that would like a small truck for working and/or general transportation....one that is reasonably priced, and reasonably economical and reliable. Not everyone needs, or necessarily wants, a 'train sized' truck here, which have more or less become status symbols more than anything else. The problem is, government regulations and greedy corporations are making this practically impossible. The US had to stop being seen as this bottomless market for overpriced vehicles, because it really isn't, especially in this economy.

[@mrgurulittle7000]

@@gabrielv.4358US consumers are dying to have a compact truck.

[@johnh2514]

I get flashbacks of the Renault Alliance/Encore disaster when I look back at Fiat’s reintroduction to the U.S market. I know two people that have purchased Fiats during their reintroduction. One had a 500. The other a 500L. My friend with the 500 liked the car but it was plagued with electrical gremlins and cooling issues starting around 30k miles…and they promptly dumped it as the warranty expired. My cousin’s 500L had more electrical issues, but was bought back by FCA after it grenaded its 2nd transmission at 19k miles. Fiat failed here for many reasons as you mentioned but IMO, at the end of the day bad reliability + negative word of mouth + better overall values in the market = buyers staying away.

[@AllCarswithJon]

Great point on the Renault comparison. As for reliablity, thanks for the input. Oddly, those (few) Fiat owners I've talked with have all had surprisingly good service. The interiors seem to wear out quickly (touch points and seats) but they've all been reliable.

[@sentiencepsn2714]

Honestly? I think Fiat was too timid. They tried the Mini Cooper approach instead of going bold, offering a full range. But also, they didn’t want to compete with themselves - the Chrysler/Dodge/Ram/Jeep covered everything except for subcompacts.

[@L4sleeko]

I like the walk and talk format. Looks like North Carolina.

[@ljfire100]

i love when we are outside on a little walk!

[@matthewgraham2546]

Jon, I remember my grandfather in 1959 I believe was the year bought a Fiat with a four speed on the column, I kid you not. He owned a construction company here in Florida so he mostly drove a truck and a Buick. I remember people would look at the car because they had never seen one. He didn't keep it long my brother and I would ride with him but my grandmother wouldn't.

[@Wolfson47]

One of the best cars I've ever owned was a Fiat Regata 100S while living in Rome. We drove it from Sicily to Normandy, cruising at 100MPH with AC, with four on board. Over the two years I owned it, never had a single mechanical problem. I've owned over 40 cars. That Fiat was among the best.

[@IamGroot786]

You shouldn't have any mechanical problems with ANY vehicle after only 2 years of ownership. That's not much of a measuring stick.

[@mikebal7777]

Also the issue most people seem to forget about the short range is that it makes the car only attractive for people who won't benefit from an EV. - I only drive about 140 miles a week all in. So a car with a range of 140ish mile wouldn't hinder my daily life. I have another car for long trips too. But I only spend around $15/week in gas...thats only $780/yr...what am I going to save running an ev??? Maybe 4-500/year? great...but insurance on EV is more...and so here I am, the perfect candidate, but the car makes zero economic sense to me. It would actually cost me more to drive a new 500....on top of the purchase cost.

[@AllCarswithJon]

Great point. My wife is the same way. While I stress over gas mileage (at least a bit), she drives her bigger SUV and because her commute is so short she seldom has to fill it up. An EV or even a more fuel efficient SUV makes no financial sense when comparing cost versus fuel savings.

[@jeffking4176]

FIAT STILL has BELOW average Build Quality - Granted, all car companies have come up considerably since the 1970’s-1980’s, but they still lag behind. When you have people who drive like we do in the U.S., those cars just aren’t going to cut it. When driven in Europe, on narrow winding roads, and in towns, maybe a few miles a day at best, where we tend to drive long distances and at higher speeds on interstates. I too, had a FIAT back in the day. A neat little 4door sedan [ saloon], but was plagued with issues. 🚗😐

[@adrianmonk4440]

I guess, in its day, the FIAT 124 & the FIAT Brava were something. Hell, I would buy a inline 3 cylinder, turbo, BMW 2002, in a heartbeat.

[@joeseeking3572]

Back in the day the 128 and 124 (sedan variants) were interesting small cars, with some zip and handling. Even stodgy Consumer Reports had good things to say initially until they proved (yes) terribly unreliable. The 131 and later Brava (series 2 131) were conceptually a budget BMW 2002, but they were plagued with the same quality control, poor dealer network problems as their predecessors. The US relaunch was IMOP doomed from the start. Essentially one fad model.

[@gregholloway2656]

Good video, Jon, and I liked your walk-n-talk. About Fiat, perhaps their problem is that their manufacturing is located such that they can’t (currently) make a cheap car for the North American market. So their only option is to go up market and chase Mini. In which case, they’d probably be better off selling under the Alfa name.

[@AllCarswithJon]

Thanks for the feedback on the format. Glad it's getting some positive thoughts. :) You make a great point - Fiat builds in Italy so expensive labor.... BUT they are building in South America too... it just seems if they really wanted the US market they could make it happen from there?

[@kitdinker]

Great video. Love the tour through the neighborhood. But an electric Fiat? No freakin way. No how.

[@jkholley1118]

In 2012 my wife wanted a fiat 500, until we test drove one. We both laughed so hard , what pos. We bought her a Camry which we are still driving today. How many Fiats 500s do you see running around? Bottem line they suck, and to be honest Mini is right there with them.

[@scott8919]

Fiat to me has always felt like a failed attempt to be a Mini competitor. Once you get past its one novelty ("look at me, I'm an Italian car!") You end up with an overpriced Chrysler/Stellantis product.

[@TheRobGoodman]

There is so much that FIAT did wrong and continues to do wrong. Who is going to buy a 30,000+ city car from a dealer that also sells TRX pickups? If they are serious about returning to the US, they should federalize as much of their current line as possible and bring it over at a steep discount. They should have standalone dealers (or FIAT/Alfa Romeo/Maserati dealers) in city centers and affluent suburbs. I am told that Mazda dealers lose between $500 and $1000 on each unit they sell. They make up in volume rebates and service department fees. I think that young affluent buyers would purchase FIATs and then move up into Alfa Romeo on their way to Maserati if done correctly.

[@Sacto1654]

Stellantis should seriously look a developing a US-legal version of the Panda in both FWD and AWD versions and sell it here fully loaded for under $30K.

[@oexplorador6840]

Fiat is a super big brand ove her in Brazil, because it had super cheap and reliable cars, people kake jokes that the brand is a bad brand, but in reality is one of the best.

[@mrgurulittle7000]

You’ve got a good exercise, Jon.👍And nice neighborhood. About Fiat, I agree they probably don’t really have a touch with reality. Who’s going to buy/lease an expensive EV that’s supposed to be cheap? And why the 500e is sold in the US out of Fiat’s wide range of cars sold globally. Why can’t Fiat bring over the Tipo, Pulse, and Strada instead, which are much nicer cars with probably better build quality than the little cheap feeling 500e? I mean, even if we can’t get these normal Fiat cars, I can understand Fiat’s strategy if they competed directly with Mini in quality and practicality. But they just don’t. Fiat’s too small, unreliable, and cheap feeling while being expensive, to be able to survive the US market. I say they either go mass market and bring over some substantial models, or go small and quirky with a new cheaper but better built Spyder, 500, and 500x.

[@AllCarswithJon]

Well if I'm going to think about cars, I might as well turn on a camera and talk about it too. So if I'm doing that, why not make my Doctor happier and take a 15 minute walk at the same time. :) And I agree with you, when FCA formed I thought we'd get some cool stuff from Fiat and instead we got a big old "nope".

[@mrgurulittle7000]

@@AllCarswithJonGreat idea.

[@oliskeith7962]

Brilliant 👏 Brilliant Brilliant

[@ronhoover5516]

I think I have to respectfully kind of disagree to a point Jon. I do think if Fiats were known as paragons of quality, they would have a market today. I'm sure there are people who would never be caught dead owning one, no matter the state of its quality, but I do think there's a segment of the market that would buy an entry from the Fiat lineup if they weren't rolling headaches. While I personally don't care for them, I think if they were great quality, they would be a great city car for some people.

[@mikebal7777]

Not only did they screw over the few people who may have given an overpriced 500EV a chance by leaving many thousands of owners high and dry when they did what they promissed not to do, and essentially left the US again...and no, selling less than 700 cars in a year because you literally only shipped 1000 doesn't count as not leaving. But, they are coming back with an EV thats essentially a car they already couldnt sell (because they wanted too much $$$) and trying to get an extra 30% more....and making it an ev with all the limitation that implies. I look forward to buying a new 500 ev in 3 years for around 12k.

[@gerardosalazar161]

F.I.A.T. means Fix It Again Tony. Now, seriously, I own a beautiful 600 in dark gray and love everything about it.

[@gabrielv.4358]

FIAT was a joke here in Brazil also. "Fui Iludido Agora é Tarde" LOL

[@JTA1961]

You can have it.

[@UncleJoeLITE]

Interesting take Jon, but I've many doubts. 500s are built in the car centre of the world - Poland, not Italy. FIAT Australia, now "the 500 Company" is a basket case, sales have fallen off a cliff & no-one would be surprised if they leave soon. FIAT are near last in: reliability, quality, paint, interior, fit n finish & expensive parts. The malicious 0/10 customer service is just icing on the cake. Even a bloody Mini is better & they're rubbish too. We have different takes lol. _edit: I forgot, depreciation is savage, even as they age, until repairs cost more than the FIAT._

[@AllCarswithJon]

Thanks for the comment! I don't think our takes are that far apart. Everything you mention - there are people out there who look that up before a purchase. But there are those who don't; those who assume a car will be as reliable as the next car, and who buy based on color and whether they think it looks good for them or not. I've met them, but I don't understand. So then it comes down to pricing and whether they can afford it, and that's where Fiat thinks they're BMW or Jag, and where it falls apart. Speaking about when Fiat returned to the US, Literally, for the money anyone would see a Honda Fit is more affordable, bigger, better gas mileage, and far more flexible than the 500. Is it any wonder Fiat struggled?

[@michaeloreilly657]

500e is made in Turin, Italy.

[@UncleJoeLITE]

@@michaeloreilly657 What percentage of overall 500 production do they make there michael?

[@michaeloreilly657]

​@@UncleJoeLITEAs far as I know, it's 100%, as production for the older model is ceasing or has ceased in Poland.

[@UncleJoeLITE]

@@michaeloreilly657 👍

[@TheGbeecher]

Seems like the Italian and French cars, never really gained any foothold, here in America...Japan, Germany and to a lesser extent, the U.K. all have had some presence here...🤔

[@TassieLorenzo]

Ironically, British cars aren't very popular in the UK either! Land Rover is the only brand that survives with any great profitability from British Leyland, Jagaur ticks along (with low if any profits?). Rootes Group long gone. McLaren is getting there I guess. Lotus is trying.

[@royperry2859]

I like the walk around format. Maybe I could walk around your neighborhood and comment about the cars in the driveways that would be interesting. I have Fiat memories myself by late Uncle Steven bought a Fiat x19 in the 1970s for his ex-wife. The car the ex-wife and the marriage did not last long. The only Fiat I would consider is the 500L which is there a little mini family SUV. However I probably want to buy two I want to run at 1 for parts.

[@AllCarswithJon]

Thanks for the feedback. I like the walk and comment on cars... I may do that one day just for fun, but I'll warn you. It'll be B-O-R-I-N-G! As you can imagine, I look at what's in neighbor's driveways all the time and there is one, exactly ONE, with anything interesting. But a 20 minute video of me being like "here's another honda accord, toyota camry, an exotic Buick Lacrosse, and 15 Chevy Trucks in a row...." might be fun. :)

[@diyi75]

Never understood the trend of mainstream car brands trying to go upscale. A Fiat is an trashy Italian Chevrolet, a Jeep is not a BMW. Maybe the younger gens can be fooled, but not the rest of us.

[@TassieLorenzo]

To be fair, until ~1995 the idea of a BMW four-wheel-drive or SUV was an oxymoron! Alfa Romeo was the BMW rival from the FIAT group, perhaps Maserati for the really high-end BMWs (e.g., Maserati Biturbo as the competitor to the BMW 850i).

[@JTA1961]

Maybe they should start selling them at Harbor Freight...(90 day warranty)

[@mollybell5779]

I really appreciate this review. Thank you.

[@JP-sw5ho]

I think you make a lot of good points. Who is this for in America ?

[@steveb3877]

OK, OK, look the Soyder was "slightly" more on fire than I would prefer, but it was a small "controlled " fire, I'm sure.

[@AllCarswithJon]

OMG! Okay,ok,ok... so when my dad's Fiat 124 Spyder caught on fire, it was electrical. I vaguely remember him arguing with the insurance company that it was only a "small" fire and not to total the car! :) I mean, he'd put the fire out?

[@vadim6385]

In the rest of the world, Fiat is literally synonymous with "shitbox". You buy (or rent) a Fiat to get from A to B as cheaply as possible, in case you can't walk/bike/bus/train there. It's a car that somewhat well off parents buy for teenagers who just got their license. What are the Stelantis management smoking, if they want to sell it for $40K USD I don't know, but I'd like some of that.

[@American-Motors-Corporation]

Well they could go to mini except how many mini's do we really honestly see on the road? I mean those things have practically disappeared part of their problem was also reliability I mean yeah they're standard parts that will wear out I understand that however there's also the situation where if you need something replaced like an alternator well the auto parts store gets dollar signs now you can say that we've coped with that for years I will say as a former Jeep owner if you go to the auto parts counter and you tell them that the part is for. Dollar signs appear immediately in their eyes. But of course what I liked about driving Jeeps was particularly with the six-cylinder model was to the parts that you would standardly replace on those you could order for AMC 80s cheap or in some cases even for '80s AMC eagle or even a Concord or spirit and you'd get literally the same part for a lot less but the minute that she would say jeep they would want to charge you out the wazoo. And I've literally had some auto parts counter people argue with me about the part I would purchase it for a Jeep and I made them look up what the same part cost for an 86 AMC eagle and they would stand there and try to tell me it won't work and I'd say bullshit tell me the part or I will find somebody who will.

[@buckaroobonsi555]

Look at the transmission issues and transmission revolving door Chyrsler has had since FIat bought them. Look at all the mechanical and electrical issues they have had. You would think that Dodge Ram and Chrysler where Rang Rover at this point. Then you have the insanely poor marketing of all things Fiat in this country and the terrible fit of the things they trying to sell in the American market place. You have to bring your best vechiles and at a competitive price point if you want to gain a foothold in America. In my eye's they are still "Fix it again Tony"

[@1heavyelement]

Stellantis is in the business of ruining car brands.

[@AllCarswithJon]

In that case, they're the new GM

[@Rudenbehr]

I wonder which side is ruining it, the Chrysler Corporate side or the Fiat Corporate side?

[@mrgurulittle7000]

@@RudenbehrIt’s definitely the Fiat and Peugeot corporation side. Chrysler is just a subsidiary with no real autonomy. Chrysler brands make the most money too. Fiat was the most healthy with a solid sense of direction when Marchionne was here, but when he left, FCA fell apart and Chrysler and Dodge were left to dry up and die. So far under Stellantis, I’m very disappointed with how these brands are being managed.

[@vadim6385]

@@mrgurulittle7000 Don't know about Peugeot, because they actually saved Opel from GM mismanagement and caused them to turn profit for the first time in more than a decade. I'd say it's both Fiat and Chrysler

[@gabrielv.4358]

in brazil they are acclaimed best brands.... go figure...

[@adrianmonk4440]

And another thing, BUSTER. Nissan, Toyota, BMW, Mercedes, etc., etc. HAS United States Design and / or Development studios & testing facilities here. IS SOMETHING MISSING ??

[@littlestinker9716]

With today's prices, reliability is very important. Unreliable brands are banking on buyer ignorance. Stellantis ruins everything it touches, including Fiat.

[@jimbo5728]

Love my abarth 500

[@spidersdiecast]

What Fiat and Alfa Romeo have really been suffering from were marketing issues. And now Fiat wants to make an "electric" 500 but with no space, basically no range, but they still want to charge an arm and a leg for it. And they don't even put anything towards advertising here either; seems like something Italian car companies are allergic to. That might work for Ferrari, Lamborghini and Maserati, but you can't make little shitboxes and expect that to work for you too. It's just a case of being too big for your britches.

[@ramblergarage]

I love my 2012 500c. Liked the 124 but it wasn't around long. A hybrid would be a better choice than all electric. Those are not selling. What about their other models we never see. It doesn't make sense what they are doing.

[@silentepsilon888]

Fiat made the mistake of thinking that they could build an entire brand based on one small 'cute' car, the 500. Americans had no idea what the 500 was and all American consumers saw was an overpriced small car with no back seat space, no trunk space and they were wondering what in the world were we supposed to do with a small thing like that. It was and is utterly impractical for a family and too expensive for younger first time car buyers. Fiat then added the 500L and I bet that the majority of Americans do not realize that that is supposed to be a bigger car in addition to the small 500. Most people do not know that there is a difference between the two and think the 500L is just another version of the 500 because they look too similar. Fiat has a great lineup of affordable and usable cars in Europe, yet they decided to bring the most useless car, the small 500 to a country that is know for its appetite for big vehicles, and then never added other more useful and competitive cars to the lineup other than the 500L which is easily confused with the 500. You can't build a brand on one or two vehicles only.

[@AllCarswithJon]

"impractical for a family and too expensive for younger first time car buyers". THAT absolutely summarizes how I see Fiat's 500 Problem. What you're left with is the group of people who want some Italian style, in a car smaller than a Civic, for the same money, and probably your 2nd car too.

[@ClockworksOfGL]

I’ll echo the other comments: FIAT should go back to its roots of inexpensive, simple, fun-to-drive vehicles. A lineup of hatchback, van, and small pickup - all built on the same platform, with a hybrid powertrain - could fill a niche for those sick of the overpriced, oversized junk coming from mainstream automakers.

[@buckaroobonsi555]

Having lived in Europe for 12 years a 149 mile range but ok for the European market but is not enough for a personin America that owns just one car.

[@American-Motors-Corporation]

Well as far as the keys theft arrangement goes I mean I'm sure by now we've all heard about you know the hot hatch situation that took place in Britain back in the 80s I mean top gear talked about it and I remember they actually had a hot hatch special where they went and got three of the most popular hot hatches out of the '80s and then they basically compared the door locks and about everyone I mean I guess history repeats itself right. And of course what that did in brit was it caused the insurance of those vehicles to go through yet everybody still wanted to buy a golf GTI or a Ford escort cogsworth or you know something in the hot hatch realm in Britain in the eighties frankly even the early 90s to a point.

[@adrianmonk4440]

Of course any red blooded, young, American male would love a FIAT Spyder (sleek convertible, 2 door).

[@dawsonbalencia3119]

I can confirm they make the best first cars one can want.

[@adrianmonk4440]

@@dawsonbalencia3119 /// Well said, sir.

[@gabrielv.4358]

Fiat's were very good, the Palio, Uno, Strada, Palio Weekend and Siena were good cars. The 147 was meh. But the 500 is just insanely overpriced and makes no sense. $220.000 for one is Insanity. Fiats are very reliable (Brazilian standards, with sometimes precariois maneintenance) The problem is the USA itself. it was bogged down with boats, and seeing smaller vehiels was just deemed "irrational" in my thoughts...

[@gabrielv.4358]

Vehicles*

[@baronvonjo1929]

I personally have heard Fiat at the butt of many jokes. The Fiat 500 and the few other cars they released aren't "cool" enough. I know car enthusiasts might say the 500 is a cool car. But the fact is it is a very lame car to Americans. It seems many are embarrassed at the idea of driving them. I hear the same about Mini. And Mini only sold 30k units as a brand last year. These cute styled small cars have very little appeal. I drive a Honda Fit and lots of the same things I hear about Fiats is said about my Fit. They basically need cooler cars. The brand and their cars are lame. Anyone could have told you the type of cars they have released to the US market arent not cars with much wide appeal. It's just a objective fact. Also while I live near a Fiat/Alfa dealership most people around me dont even realize there is a dealership. Just recently some older guys thought the back of a Stelvio was a Buick. They never heard of Alfa. People have zero brand awareness and zero consideration for Fiat when it times to buy a car. Very few people seem to have a dealer close to the them. And fewer remember it exists.

[@American-Motors-Corporation]

Well okay so when you talk about something price point are well above what young people can really afford of course I argue that the car market got screwed up in that manner I would say starting in the 80s. I mean you know inflation happened of course prices went up production costs went up I mean we can you know argue all the factors into the price point is the price ended up much higher and was basically above what the majority of young people particularly those starting out could actually afford and so you know the idea was maybe you could wait 5 years or 3 years or something and then maybe you could afford that the problem is is over time that has happened last it's more so a matter of economics and the automakers weren't going to wait around on the Young folks to get the proper wage going in order to afford these cars they had to price them to sell now but they weren't going to do so in terms of selling some cheap so that young people can drive brand new cars like they did 60s and frankly even some what set no instead they wanted to move everything up market and basically go after the middle aged crowd that already had steady living situations and yet they still had a bit of a young spirit inside of course there was also other models of cars SUVs whatnot that was basically aimed at Grandma and Grandpa basically the Auto industry is a whole I would say pretty much on this side of the world moved away from these and they went to the older crap because that is pretty much who can get the credit that is who can seek the financing and see that's the other problem we don't price cars to where you could actually save money go in and pay cash for the damn thing no their price to be financed the dealerships make a lot of money off of selling you financial services they don't really want cash purchases so even if something were to happen and it was discovered that they've been lying about the cost of cars and so basically they would be forced to price these things like they used to dealerships would be wrapped up in a nightmare they would want even though they would be selling cars like hotcakes they make a lot of money off of selling you the financial services that's why you go to the dealership they practically beg you to take the financing through their financier. I mean our car culture I think got screwed up the minute that it got dominated by finance and it doesn't really allow for the young person to you know with that first or second jobs that they get to actually go out and buy one so the appeal is more like eye candy from a distance and who ultimately ends up buying these things is you know middle-aged to senior citizen and then all the sudden it's not cool anymore I mean come on Fiat had Charlie Sheen advertising it was a funny advertisement it really was he was making fun of himself being on house arrest but at the same time does Charlie Sheen really resonate with particularly the younger millennials at that time no I would say that a lot of them knew who he was I'm certain that they saw a movie or two with him in it perhaps they even watch the television show with him but as far as they're being the time that Fiat came back a group of 16 to 21 year olds that absolutely adored Charlie and actually were fans of Charlie no probably not he was there to basically sell the car to your parents or your older cousin. I mean frankly I think that, that is part of the major downturn in the Auto industry you know that you can only really rely on the middle aged and Grandma and Grandpa for so long and then eventually they age out and decide that they're going to keep whatever car they have or they may negotiate one last car deal and that's about it and then the masses which happened to be the younger folks if they can't afford to buy the product then the product does not sell frankly I would say that's where we're sitting I would say we've been in that boat for some time but I think that it has times went on it's become more and more painfully obvious.

[@adrianmonk4440]

My name is TONY.

[@Trapper4265]

Yes, the newer generation of young people is not concerned with reliability, which is a true statement. In New England, the staggering number of young females driving Jeeps is impressive. Although, the majority of mechanics will tell you that Jeeps are the least reliable, and they would never allow their young daughters to purchase one.

[@adrianmonk4440]

Ahh nuts to Jeeps 🚙. Expensive tires with huge rolling resistance, lousy gas mileage, high center of gravity, large frontal area (lousy highway aerodynamics, maintenance costs & reliability. Unless you are a true rock crawler, outdoors person, or "mudder," STAY AWAY FROM THEM. Better to have a beefed-up, regular pickup truck.

[@American-Motors-Corporation]

I'll go ahead and offer up another theory about Fiat and of course there was also a few other brands that snuck in here that went undetected and I would say that one of the major problems is they don't really have a manufacturing base year that a lot of what they were selling was important that alone contributes to a hefty price tag but of course no more vehicles than they were selling it didn't justify that they were going to build a factory frankly I think that that was part of the problem of the past you know people would have talked about wonky electrics given that it's a brand but had they would have say in the 60s or '70s came over here and fired up a factory and had Americans built these cars then you know what I think America is especially back then would have been a lot more receptive to those cars question at that point is could they have kept the American plant open through you know say the 70s 80s you know what would have happened at night you know now if they even wanted to pretend to do something like that it would cost you know whatever they thought was a high price in the 70s you know double it had 30 right I mean it would have just cost too much so they're not in the business of setting up manufacturing if they did then you know like I say I think that Americans would be a little more receptive especially because it could mean a cheaper price tag but I will say that our car market in terms of prices seems to be fixed. I mean it's why we never got the Dacia santera we never got any Dacia cars because those cars in Europe sell every day for like 5,000 bucks imagine what that would do to the Japanese automakers as well as the American automakers that are here it's 5,000 bucks the last car I knew that ever retailed for 5,000 was a Chevy Metro that my mom bought practically new in 2000 I mean to put in perspective yeah foreign cars coming in here selling for literally you know 10% or less of the cost of what's on the market currently here it would just outright destroy so every time one of these automakers even petition to get in here particularly the Chinese our government says oh well it doesn't meet the PA standards of admission even though the car might actually meet those requirements or it wouldn't take much effort to bring those cars up to our standards the problem is they'll never let them in here basically I would say that our government along with their corporate buddies have already decided we cannot have cheap cars I remember this came up years ago with Jeep. In Germany and throughout Europe there was a model of Jeep that you could purchase did had a diesel engine and the trick was with this diesel engine is it got very high gas mileage basically diesel mileage but the American government would not let it in because they claimed that it's emissions was more than what was tolerable and the Germans and whatnot offered to modify this thing basically Chrysler of Europe offered to modify it but the American government said no basically they do not want you getting super awesome gas mileage so you don't get a fuel efficient jeep here in America.

[@ericw3517]

They're not my personal choice, but they have more brand cachet to me than a Ford or Chevy.

[@adrianmonk4440]

WHY DIDN'T FIAT MAKE A MAZDA MIATA COMPETITOR ?? !! ??

[@samuelsabo9493]

They did, the 124 spider which was built on the Miata platform

[@adrianmonk4440]

@samuelsabo9493 /// YES & NO, MR. DANGER: 1966-1981 (15 years) The Fiat 124 Spider, was sold in the US and European markets from 1966, but only in the US from 1975 to 1981. >> In 1982, Fiat left the North American market.

[@TassieLorenzo]

@@adrianmonk4440 Yeah it would have been nice if Fiat made their own roadster, but I guess they didn't want to spend the money. The last roadster (front wheel drive) was the Fiat Barchetta which was a very cool car IMO! Fiat saved money then by using front wheel drive engines and transmissions.

[@adrianmonk4440]

@TassieLorenzo // Little Boat, that's a fine looking ride. 👍 Thanks. AGAIN THOUGH, in terms of Global Marketing, what models & product mix IN WHAT MARKETS ARE THEY GOING TO BET ON ?? !! ?? *** They way they do it seems very HAPPENSTANCE.

[@adrianmonk4440]

@TassieLorenzo // See, the FIAT 124 SEDAN and the FIAT Brava sedan that were supposed to be OK sedans. The Russians built the FIAT 124 Sedan UNDER LICENSE. >>> I will venture, those basic body styles were TOO PLAIN FOR THE AMERICAN MARKET. The Chevy Covair & BMW 2002 had waaaaay more style. BOTTOM LINE, ITALIANS ARE HAPPY TO BE DRIVING AND NOT ON A SCOOTER OR BUS. THEY SETTLE FOR A LOT LESS !! !!

[@courtneypuzzo2502]

Fiats were always crap like most lower priced European cars are the first European car my dad ever drove was a 1973 Opel granted those were considered entry level luxury cars sold through Buick dealers back then though Opel stopped selling here in 1975 due to poor exchange rates between the Deutsch mark and the US Dollar making imports more expensive something similar happened to the Rover 800 series called Sterling 825 and 827 S SL and SLI sold here from 87-91 which sold around 36,000 in 5 model years while for example in that same 5 years Toyota Camry sold 1.2 million units in the US the only European cars that sell in any decent #s in the US are German or Italian sports cars for the Wealthy for ex the Mercedes Benz S Class sold 11,000 units in the US in 2023 and the Porsche 911 sold 12,000 units in the US in 2023 or in the final year of 7th gen iteration the Dodge Charger sold 76,000 the 8th gen arrives for the 2025 model year with up to 550 HP from a twin turbo inline 6 engine while the next Shelby GT 500 Mustang is set to have over 800 horsepower from the factory making it the fastest Mustang ever

[@vertik7]

It's not only Fiat that has problems in America. Many European cars will not be sold here. If you think VW is without problems you are wrong. In the USA you can't buy a usual VW Golf anymore - only expensive and sporty one. Imagine if you could only buy a rally version of Toyota Corolla for $50000, what people will be driving? Europe has different cars - they are smaller with smaller and weaker engines, they will never be sold here - a car must get on the highway with other cars. Even Honda doesn't make Honda Fit anymore here, only in other countries and it's called Jazz there. USA will never get French cars or Czech cars, they can't compete. Fiat still sells 500x because it's an SUV and 500e because it got nothing else to sell in the USA, they aren't going to make a new model for the USA only. Alfa Romeo on the other hand is a success in the USA, they are fast and expensive cars. There is Mitsubishi Mirage, it's slow, economical and inexpensive, I don't see it as a car of the year in the news in the USA. Suzuki is gone, Mitsubishi is not yet. Somehow they stopped making Mitsubishi Lancer, it was not a bad car. But it was not inexpensive as Nissan Sentra, or reliable as Toyota Corolla.

[@American-Motors-Corporation]

Well okay so I'm 39 born in 85, well no I don't remember Fiat being a brand that was advertised he would go by basically they disappear before I was born however I would argue that it depends on where you grew up perhaps you know how into cars you really are I mean you're bound to pick up that information but you could also watch car programs coming out of Europe basically you know top gear for instance and yeah it's true that they would set up a few things to be funny or something like that but the information was still pretty much there that the God is garbage now everybody did a fair amount of Renault dashing as I was growing up and those cars I really do remember simply because my uncle had an encore and he also had it alliance and of course we all know that that was AMC's last dance. But what's interesting is I came from basically an area and or situation where the quality of Renault was compared to Fiat that the Renault was in some cases seem to be better quality given that it was more on par with a Chrysler LeBaron at the time or basically whereas Fiat would have been considered absolute junk that said Renault re-entry in the United States via the Le car was really like a Renault for it was crap. So yeah I mean I don't know maybe there's a car guy out there currently that's perhaps in high school maybe they're in their mid-20s they've heard a lot of the old adages about Fiat they've never owned one they possibly will never really see one particularly in operation I'm sure there's a collector or two out there that may have them but hey what's the chances of those showing up at a car show near you but nonetheless it's basically said that those are vehicles you would want to stay away from. Of course the only real Fiats that are on the road today is basically everything Chrysler of the past 16 years. Which of course Fiat has merged into stellantis. Which oddly enough is largely controlled by Renault. So it's pretty goofy that way back in here only to kind of have it blow up in their face they basically took over Chrysler only to them getting bought out by a bigger umbrella that of course is largely controlled by Renault basically Renault came back and bought Chrysler I mean it's just interesting how that whole circle works!

[@brettbuck7362]

Fiats have been garbage since day 1, the 500 was quickly discovered again to be a nightmare as far as service goes, so gone again, thankfully. It's not "prestige", its a rolling junkyard. Also, it's not at all able to safely drive on the interstate, it can't keep up with traffic without almost blowing it up.

[@adrianmonk4440]

IDK ? I look at the variations of the BMW MINI Cooper (except coupe) AND I THINK COOL. I look at FIAT 500 line AND I THINK EHHH (nonplused). I guess myself and many others ARE TIRED OF VERSIONS OF FOUR WHEEL VESPAs ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@AllCarswithJon]

I get that. And I do think the Mini's look cool. But I LOVE the 500 and have a very emotional/primal reaction to them. Then my brain takes over.

[@adrianmonk4440]

@AllCarswithJon // Since I do not have the VISCERAL experience of driving a "good" FIAT (I am a guy that would buy the Honda Fit). I put more money into a house; and, I NEVER rolled the dice on a "stretch" or "chance" automobile purchase. I heard many good things & I have heard bad things about the Porsche 928 when it was around (V8 in front, transmission in back). Expensive to be sure. Another point is that I have heard some owners of BMWs, Mercedes, & Jaguars saying THEY HAVE A "GUY" TO MAINTAIN IT. Based on my brother's 911 & many others' experiences, YOU BRING A PORSCHE TO A PORSCHE DEALERSHIP, OTHERWISE IT IS AT YOUR PERIL.

[@TassieLorenzo]

@@adrianmonk4440 I wouldn't buy a Fiat 500 either, but I have to admit they do look cool in the cabriolet with the fabric roof! Ever sensible Honda do not offer a Fit in that kind of configuration (or even a 2-door Fit).

[@adrianmonk4440]

@TassieLorenzo // @Tassie: It's funny you should mention a 2 door Estate (station wagon)..... WHEN the British automotive industry EXISTED, there was such animals. They called them "Shooting Brakes." Basically, you and a bud would go hunting, then throw the guns & game birds (etc.) in the rear hatch. (2) Unfortunately, with FMVSS (Federal Motor Vehicle Saftey Standards), NHTSA (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration), & my GD favorite, Insurance Companies, IT IS EXTREMELY DIFFICULT TO DRIVE A CHEAP, SMALL, 2 seat CAR. LONG GONE ARE TRIUMPHS & MGs. Convertibles are even rarer. REMEMBER, Manufacturers have to crash test EVERY Body style. (3) Insurance companies tip the scales with lower premium prices AWAY from 2 seaters. Even the Porsche 911 has 2 kid seats in the back for Insurance purposes. Also there is a discount for the 4 door sedan, body style. You wanna play, YOU HAVE TO PAY. (4) Lexus stopped making the SC in 2010, after the second-generation SC 430, 2 door, 2 seater, luxury hardtop convertible was discontinued. Cost new: $68,000 USD. (5) NOW COMES PERSONAL CHOICE. Can you afford a second car ?? Do wo you want an everyday driver like Corolla or Camry; AND, something cool to zoom around in on the weekend ?? Does one SMALL car 🚗 meet all your needs, INCLUDING 300 mile plus road trips ?? (6) My personal choice does NOT include a second car. I HATE ANY ENGINE BELOW 2 LITER. I CHOSE RELIABILITY, THEN COMFORT EVERYTIME; HOWEVER, EVEN MY 4 CYLINDER TUNE UP AT DEALERSHIP WAS $360.00 ?? What The Heck ?? !! ?? To me horrible; but, much cheaper than a Lexus, Acura, or Porsche tune-up. Without detail, I would rather eat out, buy a $12 magazine, go to a movie, etc. etc. Would I like a Crossover XUV as my one car ?? Yes, but that is $8,000 more than my sedan. (7) Would I like a small pickup truck ?? YOU BETCHA ! Toyota Tacoma is $33,000 USD. Much more expensive than the XUV. (8) This Government mandate of Quad Cab (Full or Small Pickup) IS PURE BS. Thought experiment. Take a snapshot of every pickup truck on the road at a given moment in time. 80% would have one, at most two Occupants in the moving vehicle. SO WHAT'S THE QUAD CAB FOR EXCEPT TO PAY THE MANUFACTURER MORE MONEY !!! My 2 Liter Sedan fits 80% of my vehicle needs. The rest I just make due. Around town or road trip, it meets MOST of my needs. Two vehicles are TWICE AS EXPENSIVE. The only thing to consider about big pickups, DO YOU DO ANY SERIOUS HAULING OR TOWING ?? Then pay up.

[@adrianmonk4440]

Okay, Okay, OKAY !!! Let's go back to FCA (Fiat Chrysler Automobiles N.V.) before Stellantis. You had Chrsler making muscle Hemis; AND FIAT with its absurd sense of tiny, Italian, family cars. FIAT just does not have much to offer America. One would think in the reverse direction, Chrysler could have offered a small, two wheel drive & 4 wheel drive (AWD) Jeep for the European market. There is some rough weather in Europe. WHERE IS IT ?? !! ??

[@TassieLorenzo]

The Fiat Panda 4x4 is already the cheap 4 wheel drive sold by FCA in Europe. It's really cool IMO.

[@adrianmonk4440]

@@TassieLorenzo // Thanks.

[@adrianmonk4440]

FIAT IS ITALIAN. MY POINT ?? They do NOT have labor, reliability, automated production, or global marketing Under Control.

[@MrBaskins2010]

every brand is priced too high these days

[@michaelbogdanowicz5059]

$$$$$

[@occasionalquest]

Fiat straggle in EU in home market from end 1990 or almost last 40 years ...Quality is not there ... Design is not there ... Concept of product is not there. Fiat 500 problem is Mini ... unless BMW stop making it ... even Mini is notorious for blowing turbos ... people accept that and see no problem ... I know mini owner who already change turbo twice and see no problems ... He give me his car stock mini to drive around of block and I understand why he likes that car ... I used rental 500 no emotions ... poor plastics and design ... cheap China crap ... this is good 2010 car problem is that today is 2024 and other car makers make much better vehicles for the price ... Stelantis need do right thing to share holders ... shut down all car productions and focus on commercial vehicles only ... They are too late too little car company too long.

[@donjacobson818]

If you want a Fiat, with all of its attendant reliability problems, just buy one of the smaller Jeep models--they are all Fiats under the skin. And boy, will you be sorry you did so.

[@AllCarswithJon]

Come on... we could be the Jeep Renegade Brothers together! :)

[@fyodor8008]

There was a time when Fiat was better than VW

[@maxhenry1977]

Everything i’ve seen about fiat 500 reliability puts it near the bottom of it’s class.

[@jamesonpace726]

Dude, ya live under transmission lines? Eegghh....

[@AllCarswithJon]

I do not, not at all. I was walking in another neighborhood nearby that IS under transmission lines.

[@melaniezette886]

1 car Linup.

[@infernoking7504]

Fiat has always built shotty cars just at least classic ones look cool modern ones have always been junk now merg them with chrysler you get absolute horse shit ive worked on a bunch and owned a jeep xj what failed on it chrysler electronics

[@buckaroobonsi555]

Sum it up quickly. High Price/Low Quality/Zero Reliability/Zero Durability

[@Technobitz]

They haven’t lol the fiat company is doing great but the brand is not going anywhere

[@Alan-lv9rw]

The Nissan Versa is 10x better than any Fiat.

[@adrianmonk4440]

I AM WITH THE CEO OF TOYOTA, TA HECK WITH BATTERY ELECTRICS. Before I shell out $35k to $40k on a B.E. Vehicle, I would spend that on a HYBRID. *** Pure Battery Electric Vehicles ARE STILL A MYTH IN MY BOOK. I DO NOT WANT TO SAVE THE PLANET. I want to save the value of my Money, my Range, my Reliabily & Cost (LIABILITY) of fixing or replacing batteries from a wreck or above 80,000 miles.

[@adambilge2834]

Not a lot of people know that before Fiat was known as Fiat they were known as Yugo.

[@dawsonbalencia3119]

Not quite. Yugo was manufactured by Zastava, who licensed cars from FIAT and also at some points in history Ford, with the only model of Zastava being sold in the USA (the 102, known here as the Yugo of course), being a rebadged FIAT 127. FIAT had its own albeit always small network for dealerships in America since the late 1950s while Yugo only sold in the states beginning in 1980. During this time FIATs were selling multiple models such as all forms of the 124 (spider/sedan/wagon/etc), multiple forms of the 850, X1/9, etc and only left in the mid-late 80s.

[@jamesbosworth4191]

Not so. The Yugo was based on a Fiat, I think it was the 127.

[@joewe23]

Still garbage

[@alejandromoreno5056]

what a boring neighborhood you live in

[@AllCarswithJon]

As I've said many times - not my neighborhood. But, my neighborhood is substantially more boring. I walk around this one because it's nicer. :)

[@stoneylonesome4062]

Albanian here - whilst 3/4ths the cars on our roads are classic Mercedes Diesels, a sizable portion of the other 4th are FIATs, namely original 500’s and Panda 4X4’s. I own a 67 FIAT 500 back home (live in USA now), and it would break down a fair bit, but it was always easy to fix - while an issue with a Mercedes W123/W124/W126 might take a few weeks and other mechanics to fix, a FIAT 500 can be fixed by yourself over a course of the weekend in your own garage. Ultimately I think that the Citroën 2CV is much better than a 500 - many Albanians own them, and they can be fixed in an afternoon, they make Beetles and 500’s look complicated in comparison, are much more reliable, and much more practical.