Why HS2 terminates at Curzon St

[@martinalooksatthings]

I cut it from the script but people keep asking- HS2 isn't using New Street Station because it is FULL. Even now post-Covid on some of the shots you can see trains queueing up to get in. So to fit any more trains per day in you'd need to expand the station, which as shown is hemmed in from all sides and above.

[@mittfh]

Ironically, there's a rumour that when the original Bull Ring Shopping Centre was demolished, and there was a big hole in the ground prior to the construction of the new Bullring Shopping Centre, the developers asked Network Rail if they'd like to take advantage of the once in a lifetime opportunity to add a new tunnel to New Street given the bottlenecks at each end of the station. NR allegedly said something to the effect of they were fine with the existing tunnels. Oops.

[@martinalooksatthings]

@@mittfh classic Britain

[@martinalooksatthings]

@@beecee2205 I agree it would have been much better for passengers if New St was expanded or a HS2 station put underneath in tunnels, but that would be extremely difficult to do. On its own that would cost tens of billions at least.

[@peterwilliamallen1063]

@@beecee2205 The difference between the Old Curzon Street station and the new HS2 Curzon Street station is that the original station entrance was where the Old Building is way out side the City center but the new HS2 Curzon Street station will have it's main entrance next door to Moor Street Station entrance on Moor Street Queensway right in the City Center so yes it is a good idea.

[@peterwilliamallen1063]

@@martinalooksatthings to combine New Street with a new HS2 station would be physically impossible, if you look at the size of the new Curzon Street station it is far larger than New Street station and the HS2 trains are too long for the present New Street Station so any expansion of New street station would of demolished half the City Center.

[@markwarner9676]

Keep the HS2 footage coming Martina, it’s great. Would love to see a birds eye view of all the HS2 works going on over by the A45 / NEC / Birmingham Business Park

[@Nooticus]

^^

[@martinalooksatthings]

This is a good reminder for me to start getting the permissions needed to fly near the airport...

[@stupididiot6116]

Go one better ………drive your car anywhere near where they are building the HS2 around the NEC/ CHELMSLEY WOOD/COLESHILL & GILSON areas and experience the absolute chaos of gridlocked roads due to diversions and main arterial routes closed while building is happening . Feel the joy in the thousands of trees that have been felled and houses demolished just so some business men can get to London. 20 mins quicker !

[@simonclifton8056]

Brilliant content (i.e. not just about London), great pacing, great aerial shots, Jago better watch out!

[@ZariDim3012]

Very informative video!! Also love the drone shots and the history lesson

[@baronblimey]

I used to pass this old station twice a day on my way to the office in nearby Fazeley Street, never fully appreciating the history. Thanks for the update.....

[@YipeeKiYayJB]

A video on Delta junction and the complexities involved in it would be very interesting. I go past most days and still struggle to work out how it is all going to interact with the existing infrastructure. In one small area you will have the mainline with two separate spurs coming off it and having to traverse over an existing rail line, the River Tame, a A road and the M42. Bearing in mind that the M42 is already raised in that area means HS2 will likely have to be a good 15m in the air. It will be quite a feat of engineering.

[@u1zha]

1:47 ooh splendid timelapse. Wondrous feeling to be looking at the time dimension of infrastructure development

[@martinalooksatthings]

Thanks, that was just a screen recording of me using Google Earth Pro, which you can download for free and have a look yourself at aerial images from different years, of anywhere you like!

[@neilbain8736]

Curzon St. is a magnificent building and it's good the original building survives. I've explored it as best as I could when I stayed nearby which mainly involved looking through slats and cracks in the hoarding. But I was still suitably impressed. I think it's contemporary with the old Euston with the famous demolished arch, booking hall etc.

[@stanjenkinson4520]

🙏👍👍❣️all good

[@marvintpandroid2213]

Thanks Martina. I bet this gets finished long before Euston.

[@frasermitchell9183]

One of the reasons HS2 is costing so much is the building of separate stations to those existing at London, Birmingham and Manchester. The continental HS lines use the existing stations, and express services along the old lines are either made less frequent or removed altogether. For an example, consider the German HS line between Cologne and Frankfurt. The existing stations at either end are used, and the old services that ran down the Rhine via Koblenz and Mainz no longer run. There are services along the Rhine, but not express services between Cologne and Frankfurt. Of course there are other reasons for HS2 costing so much, like excessive tunnelling to satisfy the various "Blobs".

[@peterwilliamallen1063]

The reason HS2 is not using Birmingham New Street is that firstly Birmingham New Street platforms are too short for the length of the new HS2 trains and can not be extended due to the constraints of being built in a trench with tunnels either end and can not be extended due to the City Center over head, the other reason is that Birmingham New Street is now at breaking point with far more train services and operators going into Birmingham New Street than in British Rail Days so they decided to build the line into a new station that will be 3 times bigger than Birmingham New Street, Birmingham Curzon Street plus Euston is being extended to take HS2 trains as is Manchester Piccadilly

[@frasermitchell9183]

@@peterwilliamallen1063 Except that HS2 trains will be going to Liverpool, Glasgow, and Edinburgh, and the platforms are not being lengthened. The length of HS2 trains is, IMHO, well over the top of what is required. Its all a bot too gold-plated.

[@peterwilliamallen1063]

@@frasermitchell9183 Which I said and it is in the plans, as for Manchester, Manchester Piccadilly station is having new platforms built for HS2 services and Birmingham Curzon Street, Birmingham Interchange and London Old Oak common stations will be brand new built stations and London Euston is having a new part being built for HS2 trains, what is happening at Liverpool Lime Street and in Scotland has not been mentioned yet.

[@Nooticus]

@@frasermitchell9183 It's all about capacity,,, so what do you mean??

[@martinalooksatthings]

I cut it from the script in one of the rewrites- New St especially is FULL. As things stand it's very common for trains to queue up for miles waiting for a platform. In some of the shots you can see stopped trains on the approach and that's why!

[@mush893]

Loving the little TTD inserts!

[@peddersmeister]

Love the Transport Tycoon graphic illustrations! God i love that game!

[@Urban57621]

LOVE your content. You describe things so well. What category of content is this by the way? I find it so interesting.

[@martinalooksatthings]

Thanks! I don't know what you'd call this category, I'll just call it looking at things 🙃

[@CarrotSkull]

I just got this video in my recommendations. While not exactly the same (this video has lots of fantastic drone footage giving you angles you don't normally see), I assume I was shown it as I watch a fair amount of 'Video Essays' on construction and infrastructure. Maybe try: The B1m (Construction, especially big projects around the world) 🏗 Jay Foreman (More history, like this video. Focused on London, sometimes a little silly) 🤪 Not Just Bikes (There are a lot of reasons why Dutch cities are so great; it's not just bikes.) 🚴‍♂

[@phweakwilled]

Good to hear a McDs being demolished in favour of public transport. For the last 50 years it’s usually been the other way round. They need to sort out the link between New St and Moor St tho

[@peterwilliamallen1063]

Moor Street Station and HS2 Station entrances will be side by side on Moor Street Queensway creating a super rail hub, there is no logical way of connecting Birmingham New Street and Birmingham Curzon Street due to the City Center and both will be connected by a tram link. But there is no reason for any one to walk between the two stations as all Avanti West Coast services from Birmingham to London, Manchester and Scotland will depart from Birmingham Curzon Street station on the HS2 line leaving Birmingham New street to deal with other Avanti West Coast services, plus there will be an interchange between Birmingham International Station on the New Street Line and Birmingham Interchange Station on the HS2 line from Birmingham Curzon Street at Birmingham Airport.

[@andrewreynolds4949]

@@peterwilliamallen1063 I believe AWC services will still call at New Street, but only the stopping and semi-stopping patterns, while HS2 will take over the fast services between Birmingham, London, Manchester & Scotland. That's why they have ordered new 80x trainsets, as well as retaining the 390s.

[@peterwilliamallen1063]

@@andrewreynolds4949 All HS2 services will be run by dedicated TGV type trains with duel in cab signalling and ordinary type signalling with max speed 250 mph from London Euston to Birmingham Curzon Street, Liverpool, Manchester and Scotland joining the existing West Coast Route at Stafford where they will do the normal line speed of the WCML from Stafford and these trains will be jointly operated bu Trenitalia and Avanti West Coast trains. As for Avanti West Coast trains through Birmingham New Street may be a bit sparce as the only AVWC services that will travel through Birmingham New Street to London will be trains from Wolverhampton, Holyhead, Blackpool and the odd Scottish service, but the class 805 sets are replacing AVWC's voyager trains so these will more than likely be used on services to Holyhead or other AVWC services that operate off the Overhead system, so not only will Avanti West coast have the pendolino fleet, they will have a fleet of new class 805 trains plus the HS2 trains. The whole idea of transfiguring Birmingham to Euston Services to the HS2 line is that Birmingham New Street now is getting grid locked with some times trains backing up 2 or more sections to get a vacant platform at New street.

[@andrewreynolds4949]

@@peterwilliamallen1063 Yes I have heard all of this, my point was that Avanti was planning to (eventually) add more stopping services on the southern WCML in place of some of the fast services transferred to HS2, in addition to the current patterns. That's part of why they also acquired the electric 807 fleet, not just the 805 bi-modes.

[@peterwilliamallen1063]

@@andrewreynolds4949 That is what Avanti West Coast plans to do.

[@alanfbrookes9771]

When Curzon Street was in operation as a passenger terminal, people were complaining that it was too remote from the city centre, and were very glad when New Street was built. Having to lug one's baggage across from Curzon St. to New Street to make connections is not going to inspire people to travel by rail, especially if they started their journey on the Continent and have already had to lug their baggage from St. Pancras to Euston. Building a completely separate line makes very little sense. It's as though the planners have no experience with railway operations at all. What they don't realise is that most passengers put convenience ahead of speed. Knocking a few minutes off their journey time from London is not going to encourage them when they've already had to travel into central London to get to Euston. I do a fair amount of international travel, and I will fly for hours out of my way just to avoid Heathrow Airport. For instance, rather than fly from Los Angeles to Heathrow, I will fly from Burbank to Nashville, Nashville to Amsterdam, and Amsterdam to Birmingham. A lot longer in the air, but I start my journey at a local airport, and end in Birmingham without having to struggle through Heathrom, take the train to Euston and then Euston to New Street, then having to take a local train to my final destination. The point I'm making is that convenience is much more important than time.

[@martinrush2845]

Absolutely right. Passengers will be even less happy if (when) HS2 Euston is dumped indefinitely and they are shooed off to Old Oak Common for a "fast" train. Kings Cross, Euston, and even Marylebone & St Pancras all offer north-bound trains, depending on where you want to get to.

[@peterwilliamallen1063]

People as you put it will not be lugging cases from Birmingham New Street to Birmingham Curzon Street as people wanting to travel North from Birmingham or South to London will actually just go to Birmingham Curzon Street not Birmingham New Street, Birmingham New street will have trains to other destinations plus the odd train to London Euston. There has always been more than one Station in Birmingham, Snow Hill, Moor Street and New Street, so will not cause any problems with a 4th Station at Curzon Street, not only that if some one needed to get onto any HS2 services on the New Street line they can change at Birmingham International and travel by an automated people mover to Birmingham Interchange Station on the HS2 line.

[@peterwilliamallen1063]

@@martinrush2845 London Euston is not being dumped, it will open when HS2 opens as per the PM, at this moment HS2 ltd are boring out the 6 mile twin bore tunnel from Old Oak Common to London Euston and rebuilding HS2

[@martinusher1]

When I come to the UK I try to use Manchester airport. I avoid Heathrow like the plague.

[@peterwilliamallen1063]

@@martinusher1 what has this got to do with HS2 terminating at Birmingham Curzon Street Station in Birmingham, it is like talking about the London Underground and saying " Oh I always fly from New York JFK Airport"

[@ianhudson2193]

Curzon St rail parcels depot remained in operation into the early 1990s until the sectorisation associated with the run up to railway franchising.....as it did so, morphing into an operation for LYNX which was the later incarnation of what had been National Carriers/Red Star/Br Parcels. This operation was later subsumed into the independent arm of Parcel Force, distinct from the Post Office itself...

[@chairmakerPete]

Terrific video - please keep 'em coming.

[@RyanJ_]

Brilliant videos, keep up the good work!

[@drmousa5489]

Really well presented

[@michaelashall4523]

I hope I get to see this and to ride HS2.

[@MartinvonBargen]

Another informative video, thanks Martina

[@Informational_Comparisons]

Which ring road was demolished? A4040 or A4540?

[@martinalooksatthings]

The former A4400

[@Informational_Comparisons]

@@martinalooksatthings Oh. I’ll search it up.

[@peterwilliamallen1063]

No Ring Road has actually been demolished, just an elevated Island and bought the ring road down to ground level known as Moor Street Queensway and restricted to mainly Buses and Coaches, but the ctual ring road is still there but totally transformed. How the Tram will cross it is some thing we will have to wait and see in the near future

[@Informational_Comparisons]

@@peterwilliamallen1063 About your second point, is it the Inner Ring Road or Outer Ring Road?

[@peterwilliamallen1063]

@@Informational_Comparisons I don't think you actually know much about Birmingham, the Outer Ring Road runs around the outer suburbs of Birmingham known as the Outer Circle going through Hall Green, Tyseley, Stechford, Bromford, Erdington, Perry Barr Handsworth, Bearwood, Cotteridge, Bourneville and Acocks Green and has not been touched by HS2 Construction, then you have the Inner Ring Road the cir cum navigates the City around the inner suburbs of Saltley, Aston, New Town and Bordesley Green , again this has not been demolished except a new bridge is to be built to replace Saltley Viaduct and a under rated City Ring Road which is hap dash, the ring road this video is about is the City Center Ring road that traversed Moor Street Queens way, Small Brooke Queens Way Bristol street Queens way, Great Charles Street Queens way and St Chads Queens way which the only part that was demolished was an elevated Island that was taken down and the road turned into a normal cross roads Junction. This was altered to stop cars from going into the City Center allowing mainly Buses and Trams into the City Center so making it more pedestrian friendly, the Inner or Outer Ring Roads are not affected by HS2 construction. I live in the area and go into Birmingham City Center regularly.

[@Samuel_J1]

You say you're not an HS2 channel, but there's so much going on around Birmingham that it's too easy to get sucked in.

[@johncamp2567]

Nicely produced and presented.

[@BANDERAAAAAA]

hello from Kyiv Ukraine , nice to watch this video 💛💙 in Kyiv we have Circle train that connect city and near-city towns but no speed rail trains , maybe in future we have some from east to west , north to south

[@comedyhunter]

thanks for another interesting video

[@Steven.Cartwright]

Very good video

[@michaelbolt4530]

I can’t understand the big fixation with getting to Birmingham quickly

[@peterwilliamallen1063]

HS2 is nothing about getting to Birmingham too quickly, it about easing capacity on the rest of the rail network and improving and speeding up services on the west coast route and the fact HS2 is centered on Birmingham, but what is so bad of getting to Birmingham quickly

[@bfapple]

Curzon Street and Moor Street aren’t even far from New Street.

[@razkhan2958]

hs2 in Manchester too

[@LiveFromLondon2]

So, why is HS2 going to Curzon and not New Street? You haven't actually explained that. And what makes you think HS2 wont live up to the hype? Despite being unnecessarily expensive it will still be, when it opens, the fastest HS line in operation anywhere.

[@martinalooksatthings]

It'll be great for going to London, and good for freeing up New St a bit; but not a complete transport revolution as the hype suggests. Curzon St probably won't even be the most important rail station in Birmingham, let alone the most important piece of transport infrastructure.

[@johnlightfoot9967]

HS2 is a way of spreading the commuter area for London, it is being built for London, it is not in anyway trying to fix the problems this country has which is the efficient transport of goods around the country. Do you really think for all these billions that the M1/M6 will be any quieter?. Also I do not feel the being the fastest is a criteria for spending money.

[@peterwilliamallen1063]

HS2 is going into Birmingham Curzon Street because Birmingham New Street Platforms being constrained by the fact New Street is in a trench in the City Center and constrained by Tunnels at either end the platforms are not long enough to take these extra long HS2 trains and Birmingham New Street is now grid locked by train services, so if you want to got to London, Manchester or Scotland from Birmingham you will use the HS2 services from B/Ham Curzon Street, and any where else you will Use B/Ham New Street station, this will free up capacity at Birmingham New Street. Plus when B/Ham Curzon Street is finished it's main entrance will be on Moor Street Queens way facing the City Center and combined with a new Rail transit hub at Moor Street Station.

[@peterwilliamallen1063]

@@johnlightfoot9967 No HS2 is not being built for London, it is being built to speed up West Coast Main line services from Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool and Scotland to London and free up capacity at Birmingham New Street and on the WCML, why do you think HS2 is centered on Birmingham where the HS2 headquarters are and the operator of the WCML and HS2, Avanti West Coast have their head quarters,plus Birmingham Curzon Street Station will be the biggest station on HS2.

[@johnlightfoot9967]

@@peterwilliamallen1063 Only yesterday my friend travelled from Euston to Chester in 2 hours, from your comment it is being built to speed up travel. why when it is fast anyway. If it were being built for freight only I could understand it as if you look at the motorways they already at a crawl with wagons. It seems that the speed part is some sort of glory thing to see if we can be the fastest at any cost and very little advantage.

[@commorevpenguin9602]

Better infrastructure is always worthwhile. This will be true up until the heat death of the universe.

[@CupOfAMuggie]

Curzon street might boom up again ever since how much prettier it looks than all the 3 bumingham street stations In total possible theese train services could serve Bham curzon street HS2 (Confirmed) Pretty much all train operators that serve bham new street

[@peterwilliamallen1063]

Only HS2 trains will be using Birmingham Curzon Street Station

[@philburtonfrench]

Thanks for these videos, they offer a different perspective on an interesting project. Personally, I’m not in favour of HS2 given its cost/benefit simply being non existent and the consequent diversion of funds away from local transport. Nevertheless, as an engineering nerd, I do find the project interesting. Thanks😊

[@ZainR997]

I found you a couple days ago and your videos are interesting and in my opinion I think the HS2 should terminate and Birmingham New street instead of making it underground

[@peterwilliamallen1063]

Birmingham New Street is not Big enough as it's platforms are too short for these HS2 trains and Birmingham New street is Grid locked being the reason for the new station at Birmingham Curzon Street.

[@nickgower8681]

HS2 is a total waste of time and money

[@stephenhill8790]

In the time UK has built this much (45 miles I think) HS2 costing 3 billion, China has built 36,000 miles of high speed railway in China. a railway across the tibetan platu a subway in Russia 754 miles of track from mombasa in Africa a hight speed. Track in Indonesia also in Cambodia, even Brunell was able to get the line from London to Bristol done in 5 years, 🤣😂🤣