Why I Bought a Leica M10R Instead of an M11

It's 2023, and the Lieca M11 is over a year old. I bought a camera made in 2020 instead. I'll explain why.
Flatlay Gallery: dave.online/flatlays
0:00 - Intro
1:49 - Reason 1
6:06 - Reason 2
7:26 - Reason 3
12:29 - Summary
Me:
dave.online/
/ daveherring
verygoodpresets.com

[@syrcular]

Great summary video on the M10R. I bought an M10R for similar reasons. The M10 was a great camera but I found the dynamic range to be very limiting and it felt weird having to protect my highlights so much, which ended up requiring me to do a lot of post after a shoot to get it looking right especially when I had to shoot very under exposed. When I got my hands on the M10R I felt like they fixed it and I’m able to retain my highlights in a much more modern way and found the dynamic range of the M10R to be way nicer! I’m sure going to the M11 would yield even more dynamic range but to your point it’s not a current need. My only interest to the M11 is it’s reduced weight and the fact that it matches well with my recently purchased Q3. But it’s not a need. I also like the fact that the M10R still meters like the film cameras using the shutter as opposed to the M11 which meters more like other mirrorless cameras on the sensor. I often shoot with an M6 so the M6 and M10R expose the same way, where as the M11 - you have to apply different exposure techniques. It’s not a bad thing but it’s just different and to your point honors the legacy of the last M series generation when using the M10R. 👍✌️

[@davidherring]

Thanks for sharing! Completely agree. I keep my M10R is spot metering most of the time so it’s in sync with my M6.

[@eirikkittelsen9787]

@@davidherring So you mostly shoot with live view? or a visoflex? Spotmetering on my M10-M shuts of when I turn off live view.

[@Dad-n-Darcy]

For many of the reasons you mentioned, I did the same, and bought the M10-R. Very well presented my friend 👍🏼👍🏼

[@davidherring]

Nice! Thanks for the comment!

[@Secretweapondoze]

I think you just walked me from the Q3 to the Q2. Love this channel!

[@davidherring]

Ha, good call! The Q2 is so solid. Glad you're finding the channel helpful!

[@rochers]

This was very timely. Picking up an M10-R this week!

[@davidherring]

Awesome! Congrats! 🙌🏼

[@TryingtoLearntheuke]

Really enjoying your videos. Glad I found your channel.

[@davidherring]

Thanks! Welcome to the community!

[@johngorten4321]

I sold my M11 last year and exchanged it with a beautiful M10-R Black paint. Not looking back. M10-R is such a great cam

[@davidherring]

Nice! I really love my M10R!

[@michaelrivera2748]

Awesome video- M10R is what Im hoping for- im sure you know this but FYI you can adapt Leica R macro to your M10R with a Leica M-R adapter and will give you access to Leica Macro 60 and 100mmAPO. Through the EVF/LCD. Your flat work is gorgeous I love the style your putting out there

[@davidherring]

Thanks for the kind words and for the info about the R lenses!

[@lukasvanderlende]

Dave, you’re flatlays are incredible

[@davidherring]

Thanks man!

[@happywilliam1]

Really enjoyed your viewpoints!

[@davidherring]

Thank you!

[@IntrovertAmateur]

Well said Dave, total agree with your opinion on the overall topic. People should be just mindful about their (purchasing) decisions and being respectful about other people choices at the same time. Unfortunately sometimes this kind of respect gets lost in the void of social media, fortunately it's not always the case.

[@davidherring]

100%. I intentionally used the phrase “for me” many times because I can articulate why I didn’t need an M11. But that isn’t a slight against the M11 or people who have it… you’ve got to do what’s right for you and your needs!

[@lvervoortify]

I bought a new M10R because it was available in Black Paint. I know it’s not a tech reason but I like the brassing. I use it a lot and I intent to wear it out for ever. To your point of the M11 being a new era : I recently added an SL2S, it is and feels equally like ‘new era’. These two camera’s are very nice companions to work with.

[@davidherring]

Thanks for sharing! Yeah the SL series is meant to be a modern system. I’m watching for the SL3 to possibly replace my Sony kit.

[@JohnRicard]

Excellent job of giving real-world reasons to not chase the latest and the greatest offering from any manufacturer. What you're saying here about the difference between the M10 and M11 could easily be applied to the iPhone 14 vs 15. I also appreciate that you speak in a normal tone of voice and at a normal speed. And finally, thank you for not having music play underneath the talking. Keep making videos.

[@davidherring]

Thanks for the comment!

[@timoplants5869]

I have just sold my M10R and Q2 but kept my original M10. I just didn’t need the massive file size for the books that I produce; the large file size also fills my storage spaces up too soon too. I liked the Q2 but just couldn’t get on with the 28mm; I usually use a 50 Lux so the wide-angle was way to wide for what I am used to. My M10 is undergoing a service which includes fitment of a quiet shutter; I certainly missed that after using the M10R!

[@davidherring]

Thanks for sharing! A lot of people love the quieter shutter but I miss that chunky M10 shutter haha

[@eloquentlight]

I made the same choice - my reasons were the shutter lag of the M11 (and the concomitant metering difference), ongoing reliability/firmware issues of the M1, and this is trivial - I like the shutter sound of the M10-R better. I started with an M6 about 20 years ago, and the M10-R is closer to that than the M11 is.

[@davidherring]

My M6 and M10R feel like siblings, not cousins. I love that.

[@ciscognz]

whats up Dave, stoked to be welcomed back to your channel ;) But yea from 10r to 11 there is not a huge jump in quality/features. Even m10 is perfect for most photographers like myself but m10-r for that extra resolution is fire for sure. Good stuff comparing it to music tech for sure!

[@davidherring]

Thanks man!

[@MarcS4R]

i did the same , got a new M10R for a great price. love that camera. The only thing that i find is that the AWB is usually of, it takes me some tweaking to get it right. My Q2 files look better straight out of camera

[@davidherring]

Yeah, I find the AWB to be a bit magenta usually. I rarely shoot AWB anymore on any of my cameras, mostly 5200K and call it a day.

[@MarcS4R]

@@davidherring i get great results with it, will have to give that a try

[@ianyoung5750]

Great video on this topic. I agree, specs are not as important as they used to on digital cameras. In my opinion, where I saw huge improvements is in software. Modern apps and software brings a lot of my old digital cameras back to life. Makes my 6d and MP240 like new again.

[@davidherring]

That’s awesome! Thanks for sharing.

[@donjagoe]

Concur!

[@davidherring]

💪🏼

[@clawdawg7248]

Used both and sticking with M10R. You stated several years between them, but as I’m sure you know, it’s only a year and a half between launch dates.

[@davidherring]

I fact-checked this and yeah, M10R was summer 2020 and M11 was early 2022. I had just remember 2020 and 2022 haha.

[@storydorie4011]

Love this. I've been saying for years that there is no such thing as a bag camera anymore.

[@davidherring]

True, no bag cameras for sure!

[@stuartwalker121]

Dave bro. What about an SL2s with an M lens like your 50 Summilux. I thought that would be a lot better for your video stuff? Especially in low light. I just don't know about this M10R bro.

[@davidherring]

The SL and M are completely different experiences. I get the SL experience with my Sony kit. One way I may migrate to SL from Sony, but the M experience is where my heart is!

[@ruudkuiper5515]

Hi Dave, you’re right, one camera and one lens! The M10-R is and remains a great camera‼️ Every picture you can make look the same whatever camera you are using‼️

[@davidherring]

Thanks for sharing!

[@TOOBBIINN1]

I made the same call with the M10m over the M11m. There is a different way. Great points in your video!

[@davidherring]

Thanks for sharing!

[@kicks2047]

What if I could get a similar price for both the M10m and M11m as used cameras? Which camera would you suggest?

[@davidherring]

@kicks2047 M11M because it has an amazingly accurate meter compared to all prior models.

[@simonbnyc]

I agree entirely. This is why I have no intention of upgrading from my Leica Q2 to the Q3. The Q2 suits my needs perfectly and the Q3 doesn't offer me anything that justifies an upgrade even though it's a wonderful camera.

[@davidherring]

Exactly! I feel the same way. My M10R and Q2 is all I need, and that's not a slight against the M11 or Q3, just a fact for me.

[@Gus-nv1qw]

did you buy your M 10R from the Leica store? what should I expect pay for a M10R? thank you gus

[@davidherring]

I bought mine locally from another person. You can find them between $5-6K right now.

[@Gus-nv1qw]

@@davidherring thank you

[@cborel83]

Don’t you have an m11 now? Mine just had to go back because it keeps freezing. Why did you now switch to the m11

[@davidherring]

I do! This is an older video. Switched because my M10R had an issue and needed a camera while it got repaired.

[@wespettus7343]

I made the exact same decision between my M-10R over the M-11.

[@davidherring]

Nice! Thanks for sharing!

[@xiiiconcepts]

I'm eagerly awaiting the launch of the M11p, which promises to be a game-changer in terms of features and design. By the time it's released, any initial issues or bugs should be resolved. Among its standout features are USB-C charging and file management through a single, travel-friendly cord. Additionally, the M11p is set to boast a 250GB on-board hard drive, eliminating the need for external SD cards. The back screen will be crafted from indestructible Sapphire crystal glass, giving it a robust quality. Completing its aesthetic, the M11p will be available in a sleek all-black design, adorned with the traditional Leica script writing on the top, reminiscent of previous 'p' models, without the need for unsightly stickers to conceal the iconic Leica dot.

[@davidherring]

Man, now if all that plays out, I’d be VERY tempted for an M11-P and recant everything I said in this video 😂

[@xiiiconcepts]

@@davidherring just a color version of the monochrome specs. Should pan out.

[@Ernest_Kahn]

Legendary.

[@davidherring]

💪🏼

[@adamcarter6649]

I’ve got a hot tip for your Leica macro product photos, the 100mm apo macro Elmerit R 2.8 lens. It’s insanely amazing and I bought one for about $700. I had it for years adapted to my Nikon cameras, even on my GFX, it was outstanding. I think you can get an R-M adapter. ✌️ * I believe there are companies who rehouse this lens for video, it’s got an amazing bokeh.

[@davidherring]

That's actually really cool to know!

[@luluphoto]

I've used Leica for years, M6, M7, M8, M9, M10-D, M11, M10-R (current). The M11 has to be used to be appreciated, I had 2 and both bricked early on so I now have a reliable M10-R but I really miss the M11. There is something about the files which goes beyond specs. My most used Leica was the M9, I loved it but my favourite files came from the M8, until I had the M11 which matches the way it felt. The M10-R is very capable but about as uninspiring as my Sony A74 which with the new 50mm 1.4 GM lens is equal to the 10-R with 50 Lux asph to my eye. Despite being a long term Leica user, I'm not a lover of the rangefinder experience, it's about the compact size and output, hence the Sony for AF, but so far nothing beats the M11 output for me other than film, especially MF.

[@davidherring]

Thanks for sharing!

[@vampolascott36]

I'm with you. I wouldn't even consider an M11 until the next big M camera comes out and the used prices drop. I just got a used M10 Monochrom for just a little over $5000. That's about $1000 less than they were going for earlier this year. The Monochrom is worth the hype, it really is all that.

[@davidherring]

Definitely. Used prices are down somewhat this year, which is a good thing to see for those buying. Bad for those selling though!

[@antoniorussell9893]

I purchased the m11 because it was the lastet model and intend to hang on to it for many years... in the same way as I purchase the latest iPhone and get as many years use out of it as possible. Its a nice step up on the M10 in many respects. In terms of cost, I am comming from a film background, digital cameras pay for themselves after just a few years.

[@GamachePhoto]

Nice video Dave. For your Macro (or close-up) work you can simply get Extension tubes to add to your 50mm Lux, get a few 10mm tubes and stack them together. (50mm of tubes will get you 1:1 with a 50mm lens). That might cost you 60$. Quality is impeccable. I also have the M10R and love it! #alwayscarryacamera

[@davidherring]

That’s great! Thanks for sharing. I do think in terms of resell value, the M11 makes more sense in 2023. Ultimately you get the camera you need for what you want to accomplish.

[@antoniorussell9893]

@@davidherring Indeed. Also, I went new with 0% financing so that made the purchase doable... otherwise I would probably be looking at an M.

[@andrewbrestansky2092]

Spitting facts on facts! Great video and I agree 100%

[@davidherring]

Thank you sir!

[@joergkampers_photography]

same decision here. I got my M10-R with the Visoflex2 and two batteries for $6,300 - while the M11(P) is still around $8,000-9,000.

[@davidherring]

That’s a great deal! Enjoy!

[@maikjoyi]

I have the M10-R im Happy

[@davidherring]

Same!

[@benjaminparks8032]

I've got an M11 but am considering selling it to buy a used M10-R, for the simple reason that the M11 is incredibly buggy, and constantly experiences freezes and errors of various kinds (my local camera dealer told me, rolling his eyes, that the new M11-P is even worse). If I could go back in time, I'd definitely choose the M10-R simply because it's the more stable camera.

[@davidherring]

It’s wild because my M11 has frozen one time that I can remember. Never had issues. But people like yourself have experienced many issues. I wonder what the actual problem is… maybe certain production batches?

[@Christopher_D_]

I just bought my Niece the M10R and image quality is similar to my M11. The only thing she wishes she had was the GPS metadata with the fotos app and the easier access to battery/card. That's really it and it was 50% of the cost like-new pricing vs the M11. We put that money into a used 35m F2 ASPH. You are dead on.

[@davidherring]

Thanks for sharing! And good call to put that money into a 35mm!

[@webersteve1547]

For the access of the card you can get a leather with a flapp that can replace the base plate. Very neat

[@soshiucheong]

I love your reasoning. Conversely technology improves our life, eg: internet. Looking back, we might think differently

[@davidherring]

Thanks! For me, it’s all about what I need. Why buy a drill if I just need a screwdriver?

[@soshiucheong]

@@davidherring I agree. Please keep making good videos for me and everyone😊🫰🏻

[@williamgoss4691]

I always like to see a few more images, cropped, not cropped..

[@davidherring]

Thanks for the feedback!

[@Bjornar-]

I totally agree, made the same decision and went for the M10-R. Electronic shutter, USB-ports and so on is great, but I had that on my Fuji and Nikons (and did not really need it). The reason I sold that gear was because I wanted to get back to photography basic. I fear that the the M11 is the start of an convenience era and that is not an M for me.

[@davidherring]

It will be interesting to see where the M12 goes. I’ve read rumors of an EVF and it makes me 🤢

[@Tedwill-home]

In the end, it’s the choice of the buyer. The M10R on the used market is a great deal. I had the M10R and now the M11. I bought it for the better IQ and the battery life was a game changer. I have yet to use the second battery on a long photo shoot. My only regret was the Visoflex. I love shooting with a rangefinder and find focusing easy. I don’t see an M12 until probably 2025 or 2026.

[@davidherring]

Yeah we're a while off from the M12. I completely agree - it's the choice of the buyer. The only thing I really push people (when they ask me) is to understand their needs and get what meets their needs.

[@ConstantinA1]

the best Leica for me is Leica M (Typ 262) I don't see anything in the newest Leica that I don't have in my 262.

[@davidherring]

Great camera! Thanks for sharing.

[@lowIQstuff]

with M12 in the horizon, might just be better to wait and get a M11 / M10R at even bigger discount

[@davidherring]

I wouldn’t say it’s “on the horizon.” It’s years away.

[@lowIQstuff]

@@davidherring If they're upgrading the cameras every 2 years, it's going to come up this year. It's already speculated to come out Q3-Q4 2024.

[@davidherring]

@lowIQstuff they have not updated the M line every two years. Historically, it’s every 5 or so.

[@lowIQstuff]

@@davidherring It's been rather inconsistent I guess, I just saw the M10 mono was released 2020 and then M11 2 years after.

[@Jebusjoose]

Everything before "I'm gonna be honest with you" can be disqualified as dishonest.

[@davidherring]

I guess you got me there.

[@LostBoyLA]

I upgraded my m10p to m11p simply so I don't have to carry a camera charger when I travel. USB-C ftw

[@davidherring]

Best feature of the M11 line!

[@kylewood8327]

Luckily there’s no Leica that I need! Except the M1 😂

[@davidherring]

Haha

[@StanleyKubick1]

$100 bucks say that your "extensive" music production experience is 90% worship music

[@davidherring]

While I have plenty of experience in that genre, I have just as much playing professionally in several studios as a studio musician, as well as a professional band for many years. Thanks for the comment.

[@johnm4498]

what a weird comment

[@android_dreaming_of_sheep]

lmao what??