Leica M11-P vs M10-R - Can I Keep Only One?

[@easygoingbutgoing]

Love your photos , seems you see somehow the way I do .. Bless you for having both!!

[@walkingmanvideo9455]

I can't sell my older cameras to purchase a new unit, I fall in love with each camera.

[@gregspov]

So many great memories associated with each camera. I keep my first camera, a Canon TX film SLR, on my office shelf. Every year I run a roll of Tri-X through it for the nostalgia of hearing that distinctive mirror slap sound each time I release the shutter.

[@tjmanou6422]

Many photographers criticize Leica (it doesnt do or doesnt have this or that for the price they charge etc). I was one of them. Then while trying to change Leica, Leica ended up changing ME as a photographer. Where other brands accommodated my ignorance Leica made me realize how bad I was at photography. I have used pretty much every brand for the last 20 years shooting magazine covers etc. so im not new to this. And Leica made me realize I know nothing about photography. Thats my story. ;) thank you

[@gregspov]

I agree. For me I found that all the new features of my Canon like AI face detect, multi-segment exposure, auto-focus, auto-lighting etc. was sucking the life out of my process. Don't get me wrong, there are still certain situations where my R5 and a fast zoom are what I need, but for my personal photo projects the Leica brought the joy of slowing down and paying attention to the art of photography back into my life.

[@tjmanou6422]

@@gregspov 💯

[@j.k5654]

This comment is underrated

[@joelb727]

Keeping both was always your only choice. Congrats.

[@jwanger142]

Long time crop Fuji user - just picked up my first real rangefinder a Leica M9. It's so fun to shoot, no live view is a huge learning curve for me, I've always had a preview of what I was going to get before the shot. M9 sensor has a pretty cool look to it.

[@Funktrainer]

M9 is excellent. One of the best cameras ever made. Reference quality colour reproduction, the best out there, right next to the Kodak CCD equipped Hasselblad H backs.

[@acquired.archives]

Totally agree, I have a M10 R Black Paint and M11 M. I would never give up my M10 R for any future model. Fantastic camera with a retro feel that is slightly lost in the M11 in my opinion.

[@AlexOnStreets]

Thanks for the video. I would love the M11P but if I can find the 10R for a good deal I'll spring for that.

[@gregspov]

The nice thing about Leica is that there is a consistent feel to all the rangefinders. To be honest I’d be happy with the regular M10. There are situations where the increased megapixels are nice, for example when I want to crop in pretty heavily, but the downside to 60 megapixel raw files is that I keep running out of space on my MacBooks 1 Terabyte drive.

[@paulatterby7507]

My predicament also. Bought a M10 mono on the pretext of selling either a Rolleiflex TLR or Hasselblad V series. Love them all though!

[@vinylisland6386]

Yep. I have the M10M which was a game-changing camera for me and, although I bought the M11M, I'm keeping both. Anyway, you need a back-up M body if you ever have to lose the camera for a while to have the rangefinder recalibrated. I couldn't bear to part with my M8 either

[@AllCarsUnited]

That Sony sensor is indeed amazing

[@superkrell]

I can keep only one! After going from film to digital and acquiring the Leica MD 262 there`s no turning back...!

[@DougMcLachlan]

I feel the same way about my M8, despite having an M10 (and an SL2) I can't bring myself to get rid of what is technically a much lesser camera. But that M8 sensor does have some magic and it was my first M

[@Funktrainer]

Same here, I will never get rid of my M8.

[@ks22187]

Same.

[@marcusnz232]

I wish I’d kept my M10-R. The colours are much nicer than the M11 series.

[@camelotvanerven9667]

Stick to one camera, the one you feel most connected to.

[@bylavoie]

M11-P is the first leica I've purchased in silver. I love the extra weight of the brass vs the black aluminum. It's so hard to sell older cameras in order to finance new ones.

[@averywagg1839]

Smart move! I bought a new M4 brand back in 1974 and I still use it today. Last year, I bought an M11 and I'm using it more. I love both cameras though..

[@gregspov]

I've never actually used a film Leica, pre-digital I shot Canon and Nikon. I'm thinking about picking up a used M3 or M4. It's so great that all my new Leica M lenses will work just fine on any Leica film rangefinder built in the last seventy or so years.

[@donjagoe]

I love that-I understand completely!

[@laurapodrasky9687]

I did not sell my SL2 when I purchased the SL3. I am keeping my M10M even though I am buying the M11M. This way I always have backup.

[@gregspov]

Two Leica M Monochroms! That's awesome.

[@andersphansson]

Great video! Any problems with M11 freezing ? And easy scratch on the black color?

[@gregspov]

I did have occasional freeze ups that required my to just pop the battery andpush back in to reset the camera. Really annoying for a $9K camera, I never ever had such a problem on over 20 years of Canon digital bodies. However, since the last firmware update I have not noticed the issue. No scratches yet on the paint, it seems pretty durable. And I am not someone who coddles my camera, when I am out and about it is always hanging on my shoulder or sitting in the center console of my car unprotected.

[@riswanc]

That’s what i told my wife and she never knew i m keeping both in the end, seamlessly

[@gregspov]

I have a friend who has a new black Porsche 911. It is his third upgrade but since he always orders the same spec his wife never noticed.

[@NetvoTV]

What phone do you use, iPhone or Android, which one if android, is there some features and things you can only do on one platform for you as a photographer and just as a person?

[@MulliganAl]

Well said, I'm looking to purchase my first Leica after wanting one since the 1980s. I have a deposit on a Q3 but the M still calls me and I almost bought an m10r but decided to hold off to give more thought to the m11 line. I currently shoot with an a7rv and I love the flexibility of that 60mp sensor so I'm leaning towards the m11, but that price just makes me pause. Although I realize that I'd most likely keep it much longer then I would cameras of the past, and as a street photographer who travels all around the world, the Leica just makes sense to me.

[@gregspov]

I recently came across a journal from 1998 where I wrote down that I wanted to try a Leica. It took me until 2022 to be able to afford one. Good luck on your decision!

[@MulliganAl]

@@gregspov Thanks, I finally bit the bullet and bought a Leica m11P and couldn't be happier with the decision.

[@gregspov]

@@MulliganAl Congrats!

[@cmolina31]

Excellent video.

[@scholzineuropa]

Thank you for your video! Could you tell which shutter is louder? The M10-R or the M11-P? Is it a big difference? For my work shutter sound is important.

[@gregspov]

The sound level is the same, it's just a different sound. But the advantage with the M11 series is that you can set it to only use the electronic shutter and be completely silent. This would work fine for most scenes as long as rolling shutter would not be an issue, for example if you were taking a picture of a golfer swinging a club then you need the mechanical shutter. But taking photos of a classical musician performing the electronic shutter would work great and be silent.

[@teongsoo]

Thanks for the video. M10R user here and I was offered a M11P with display set at reasonable discount. Difficult decision as I was thinking to sell my M10R after I get the P but I am lost again after watched your video.. ha.. I could ended up have two M camera 🤣

[@gregspov]

It's been a couple months since I made the video and honestly I'm still struggling. I love the battery life on the M11-P and the colors are great when you are in a situation where you want great color such as my recent trip to Cuba. However, I really like the feel of the M10-R and I find that it is the camera I will grab first when taking people photos because I don't have to do as much post-processing to get great skin tones.

[@teongsoo]

I don’t know how much I should agree with you, I pull a trigger to get the M11P with a very good price and now ended up I have both M10R and 11P with me. Will wait for a while as it has been fun as well to playing around with two camera with lens. 😂

[@rumblestar5771]

Thanks for this video. I feel exactly the same way about the same situation. Love my black M11’s lightweight body and the larger battery but I too decided to hold onto my M10r as a backup and second camera body; the M10r has been 100% reliable, makes wonderful images, it’s rangefinder is spot on, and it’s been my companion for a number of years. Battery life with my M10r can be its weakest point but after buying/selling a few M10* cameras over the years, I’ve ended up with 8 batteries for my R so I’m should be good for now. Thanks again!

[@gregspov]

Good to hear your experience. Especially now that I had the full CLA with Leica the M10-R is like a new camera. And my M11-P occasionally still gives me a corrupted DNG file every 100 photos or so, hopefully they fix that with firmware at some point.

[@HN-sk2lr]

Great discussion 👍 I like your review

[@gregspov]

Thanks. I just uploaded a new video about my favorite Leica lenses for travel.

[@trentmitchell4753]

Base plate of m 10 series is so good. Bring it back! So durable and worry free for ports

[@gregspov]

Maybe because I am relatively new to Leica the baseplate is not a big deal for me. I know some people have worried about the exposed USB-C port on the bottom of the M11 series but it has not been a problem for me. And I usuallly keep a half-case on my M10-R which means I don't even use the base plate. The half case opens up to access the battery and SD card.

[@tonyhayes9827]

You need a back up camera anyway N'est pas? I have sold cameras and lenses in the past to upgrade but despite having a Nikon ZF now I've kept my D850. Just can't part with it. Great vid.

[@torchbox]

Anywhere and get the shot? Safari ride in Serengeti National Park trying to capture a running cheetah or just about any sporting event? 🤪🤪 I love mine but it’s one of many cameras, each suited for what the situation requires. Funny how we all bend logic like a pretzel trying to justify the price 😂

[@rolandrick]

I had the M11-P and returned it, because the copy I got had an extreme pinkish colour tint. Resulting in hard blues and snow literally gets pink. Trying to remove it in post was impossible, because the corrections had to be done shifted the image into green. Does someone know if that was a bad sensor batch or so? Appreciate any reply!

[@TheVFXbyArt]

Same can be said for the Fuji x100V and x100vi. I thought I would be able to sell the sixth after I got the five, however, the five generates value in its lower megapixels, less complexity(no IBS moving parts), and it’s robustness. The six represents new technology, new possibilities with the IBS, more cropping options with the higher megapixels, some quality of life changes, and it’s new film simulations. I’m also still sporting a Fuji XT three from 2018 and a canon EOSM5 for supportability and unique 11 to 22 mm wide angle lens. I think the problem with today’s cameras is a rapid turnover, as well as the digital rot that plagues any digital camera, regardless of brand. This is why I think the only true viable heirloom Leica is a film like a camera. You will not be chasing after compatible, batteries, sensor issues or electronic obsolescence for example, the Leica FOTOS app. This is the problem that will plague any digital camera. However, it’s interesting to see today’s youth embracing the Digital when 20 years ago. Great nonetheless

[@gregspov]

I definitely have a M6 or MP on my bucket list. But digital turnover is not as bad as when I started. Back in the 2000s every digital camera release was a massive upgrade. Nowadays I’ve had my Canon R5 since it came out and I’m still 100% happy with it all these years later.

[@JayJayNay]

Seems to me you have nothing to worry about when it comes to choosing what camera.

[@wilfredshum3703]

That’s why Leica M is considered a classic while SL and Q are not. However, I am keeping my TL2 because it is such a beautiful and unique camera.

[@thonmekathikom1495]

I was lmao for the first few seconds. I just did exactly that. I bought m11-p justifying i was going to sell my m10. Immediately after i purchased, you know the rest.

[@alexbenstead5922]

I’m having this very ‘crisis’ right now. I just can’t quite trade the 10r, but can’t afford to keep 2 Ms.

[@toothzombie]

I have the Q2...can't imagine getting any other camera.

[@gregspov]

I can't tell you how many times I've been tempted, basically every time I walk into a Leica store.

[@eek0212]

well if i was you ill just keep M10-R and let go M11 because... 1) M11 still keep freezing with app connection 2) M11 discard traditional leica metering and i think because of that M11 image looks like just from a random modern mirrorless cameras 3) my M10-R is BP lol

[@walkingmanvideo9455]

7:08 Agree 100%

[@gregspov]

"photography as a meditative experience"... sounds like a great topic for a future video!

[@KramerTheWatchGuy]

M10-R is sweet

[@TitanCallisto]

Could you share about the process to send your M10R to get CLA’d? Was that thru Leica USA (NJ)? How much did it cost? What was the turn around time? Purchased mine second hand from a Leica store at excellent condition and registered it for the 12 month warranty. I’ve been loving it so far and it does feel like an instant classic! A few weeks ago, realised there is a small bit of dust only noticeable at f11/f16, so I am interested in sending it prior to the 12 month expiry window. Superb video btw!

[@gregspov]

I sent it in through the Leica store Camera West near where I live on the west coast. They handled shipping it to NJ. At the time they said Leica NJ had a pretty long backlog of work so it took a couple months, but they were really good about keeping me informed on the status. In my case I sent it in to fix a shutter that wasn’t timed properly at speeds over 1/1000 second and the CLA was in addition. So my total cost was $900, but a regular CLA would probably be a lot less. (But it still is Leica so cheap is not an option.) Good idea doing within warranty. I think my problem was there when I bought the camera used but didn’t notice it until after the warranty expired. For just dust you might want to see if the camera store can clean it for you.

[@TitanCallisto]

@@gregspov Excellent-- Thank you for the detailed response! Will do!

[@alternatereality7713]

The shutter sound is what I am gonna miss once Leica goes with global shutter sensor in a M12 or M12P. Gonna be a boom for on camera flash though. Till then I keep on shooting M10 with available light and do local exposure adjustments in post.

[@LensForgotten]

Its nice to have two bodies..... No lens changes....

[@evanfelts]

Coming back here to this video to see if you are still shooting with m10R? I’ve been shooting with m11 for almost 2 years now and I see m10 series photos that I took long ago and the colors are so much more pleasing. The color science of the m10 series is just more pleasing to me.

[@Fluterra]

There is literally NO difference in “color science” between the cameras. Every digital camera has the same “color science” just like every car abides by the same ‘movement science’. You must be referring to JPEGs SOOC. If you shoot DNG you are using the same color science. Get some plugins for LR or whatever you use and you will have the same colors.

[@evanfelts]

Yes I’m referring to the jpgs. I’m well aware of how to milk a raw image.

[@evanfelts]

And different camera sensors do indeed interpret colors differently.

[@p-the-v2]

Did your wife agree with your justification to retain the old one? Personally, I would put the same strap on each and black masking over the M10r's red dot so that she would think it was the same camera.

[@gregspov]

I've probably exhausted her with technology changes to the point she no longer pays any attention :)

[@webersteve1547]

Are you a kid who has to ask his mother?

[@gregspov]

@@webersteve1547 Last weekend my neighbor let me sit in his 1967 Firebird 400. At that moment I realized l’m still like an 18 year old boy inside fascinated by cool stuff. :)

[@kobewhk]

Thanks for the sharing! I found that some of the people said the M11 AWB is not accuracy and M10R color is better than M11, is it? Thanks!

[@gregspov]

Good question. I think the M11 auto white balance is really good. However, I'm still undecided on the color rendition differences, it seems the M11 has more saturation than the M10-R. I find that for people photos I often turn down the saturation when using the M11-P and the Leica profile. I'll try to do a direct comparison in the next week or two and post the results.

[@clawdawg7248]

I find the M11 and SL3 files a bit overcooked and saturated. Workable in post, but not great. No comparison to the M10-R and SL2-S files, which are super clean.

[@gregspov]

@@clawdawg7248 I agree. Especially for skin tones. I need to do a comparison soon.

[@Gravitys-NOT-a-force]

What you could be saying is that your Leica dealer won't give you - for your M10R - what you think the camera is worth. Why GIVE him your M10-R for an expensive M11 which isn't that much better? I've been through that process.

[@superkrell]

Has anyone written a book on excuses to keep more than one Leica...?

[@tor2919]

I dislike the M11. I think it’s objectively a worse M camera. The shutter sounds and feel. The constant open shutter. Worse colour. “Better auto exposure”. There are better cameras from Nikon or Sony or Canon should you want an auto camera. To me the M10 is peak digital M so far and I hope Leica step back from the feature laden M11. Just like the stepped back from the button and function polluted M240.