Why I call my films "films"

[@FiddleStickNick]

This is such an important discussion to have. I've told people that I'm going to make a feature-length film and their reactions are as if I said I was going to walk on the moon. I guarantee that their reaction would have been different if I had said that I was making a 40 minute video. The perception that KZbin videos are just content and not to be taken seriously is saddening. However, I know that decades from now the artists currently creating films on KZbin will be seen as the pioneers of a new artistic movement of creative freedom.

[@dinospumoni5611]

Perhaps one way to look at it (idc about the specific verbiage) is in terms of the effort and care put in? Like, a 40-min vlog is technically a "film," but there's clearly a difference in intent and content between that and, say, a Joel Haver skit. I'm of the mindset that virtually if not literally everything humans create is "art," but I think it can be useful to have some sort of delineation. A "feature-length film," at least to me, suggests some level of deliberate care and intent that I think is different from e.g., a typical long KZbin vlog.

[@davidholaday2817]

Exactly. This was moving pictures 100 years ago. People 100 years from now may look back at KZbin the same way we look back at Moving Pictures now. 100 years from now there may be a new sort of art form that people scoff at and are like “This isn’t a comedy sketch. This isn’t KZbin.“

[@debrachambers1304]

To be fair, when I hear "feature length"- and this applies to others as well, I think- I imagine something 70+ minutes long.

[@shoocharu]

I sometimes refer to my animated music videos as "short films" because.. well.. they are. They just happen to also have the purpose of being a music video. I meet a lot of people who take offense to this, and now I am delighted that I can refer them to this video! Thank you, Joel!

[@thelastchannelonyoutube]

Some of the best forms of “short films” I’ve seen are music videos. It’s such a fun format.

[@Chillerll]

You mean you are delighted that you can refer them to this film.

[@greguevarart]

People have greater hostility towards the concept of being an artist than towards actual institutions that have tangible power over their lives

[@altaccout]

But "calm down" are just words, and not real.

[@Malkovith2]

Nothing is real, everyone panic!

[@firstlast6796]

@Harold "You are literally saying we should be hostile towards..." No they aren't. They're saying people get more worked up about something frivolous like the "artistic" status of another person's work, or someone calling themselves an artist, versus things that actually matter and impact their life. They way you took it was more hostile than anyone intended lol.

[@codyclarke]

Well said!

[@Chillerll]

I need you all to relax instead of arguing on the internet. Maybe take a warm bath or do some yoga, take some time for yourself and your mental well-being. And I mean that in a extremely hostile way!

[@fredsnicker]

To eliminate any discord on terminology regarding "film", "movie, "video" .etc all relevant media will herein be called an "Audio Synchronized Image Sequence". It really rolls off the tongue.

[@jadegecko]

"ASIS"

[@beatall3]

That's very exclusionary to works that have there audio desynced from the video intentionally or otherwise. I demand a formal written apology

[@Leo0718]

This is the greatest film I've watched in 2023, please release in theaters and we'll lobby to have it nominated for an Oscar.

[@Chillerll]

Joel winning an Oscar would be the most ironic thing ever.

[@KaiSchSp]

Channel is called "Joel talks about movies" and now he talks about films. What is this? Flagged for false advertising

[@execthegaming]

Joel Haver is a true artist. He can call his videos "flippy photos", and they will be just as valuable. He can call them "poopie shooties", and I'll still laugh when I watch them. He can call them "films", and I'll briefly roll my eyes, then get over it, and enjoy the show.

[@blacklightgypsy]

I've watched this twice . Profound words on creativity in general. Wish I had you as a teacher or at least this platform was where it is today when I was in highschool back in 2006. So many passions and dreams hung up from those that were impressionable enough in saying "you'll never be this" or "you'll never be that." If you were around I'd know that I was "this" or "that" already! You do great things for the world, Joel, don't ever believe anything different

[@ElazarY]

To me “film” signifies a certain level of artistry. Everything’s a video, everything’s “content” but not everything has that passion and love put into it that a film can have.

[@anntony5585]

Just listened to this while driving to get my dad a box of alka seltzer, I agree with you. When i first started drawing i never called it art because I didn’t want to be criticized for it not being great art. But art doesn’t need to be great to be art. Good video.

[@millennialnative1949]

That 100 year point is such great perspective

[@MichaelMikeyMike]

I definitely have a bad habit of lowering myself whenever I talk to others about the creative work I do, worrying too much about how other people feel, as if me telling them how well I'm doing makes them feel bad. It's something I've grown up doing a lot so it's hard to shake the habit, but I'm getting better at it. Thanks Joel for the helpful thoughts, it puts things more into perspective ✌

[@twohops92]

Yeah I do the same. There's so many people that only see art as worthwhile if it makes a profit.

[@lofiworkshop]

I completely agree. The subtle differences between art and entertainment, films and movies, don't really matter in the end. Make something you enjoy and to heck with the labels.

[@Malkovith2]

Kind of reminds me how 'video game music' is not considered to be serious music.

[@notsure1969]

You can call call 'em whatever you want. I'll still watch 'em. People get too wrapped up in semantics and pedantics.

[@guyinc0gnito]

This is why I always say “my nacho cheese has a film over it” and not “my nacho cheese has a video over it”

[@CRneu]

Is nobody gonna mention that absolutely amazing shirt? Damn Joel, leave some swagger for the rest of us. Oh, also I hope your back is doing better!

[@joeltalksaboutmovies]

My mom gave it to me for Christmas!

[@matthewstuckenbruck5834]

​@@joeltalksaboutmovies Your shirt I hope, not your back. Unless you were born on Christmas.

[@NAHDFOX]

One thing I particuarly appreciate about this mindset is how welcoming it is to the idea that people are allowed to branch out from the content they're normally known for making. So often, people so interested in finding specific labels to apply to someone that it can make it limiting for said person to try anything new. If you make a wide variety of content, but most people know you for your comedic films, then it can be extremely hard to get yourself known for anything else-especially if people continue using very specific labels to describe who you are. If you establish yourself by something generalized-calling yourself a "filmmaker"-it allows you to have more freedom to branch out from what most people know you for. If, instead, you call yourself a "comedic youtuber" who makes "comedic sketches" because that's what you're most well known for, it just makes people _that much more_ resistant to you doing anything other than that specific type of content. I've seen a simliar thing with musicians who started out initially making comedic music. Most "comedic musicians" never manage to get their fanbase to care for their more serious music because, in their fan's minds, they'll only ever be a "comedic musician". I only know a handful of musicians who managed to get popular making serious music after having initially blown up through comedic music-the keyword is that they managed to redefine themself as a general term, "musicians", in much the same way you define yourself as a "filmmaker"-or even more broadly, an "artist". (That isn't to say it's not possible to go in the opposite direction; someone known for serious content should also have every right to make comedic content, too. It all still falls under the umbrella of artist, or musician, or filmmaker, etc.)

[@dinospumoni5611]

Thanks Joel, great film.

[@CaptainGrue]

it's really cool to hear you talk about stuff in a way that i have totally aligned with for the past few years everything is everything peeps vibe :]

[@m62films-upthenorth]

I gave up thinking about this when I realised it was taking too much time out of my creative journey. Same with "best" vs "favourite" Focus on the experience and its effect on you, that's art.

[@LiShuBen]

I think semantics are important when it's an artist expressing why they believe their work falls into a particular word, genre, etc but I still look forward to hearing your thoughts all the same!

[@Unicronsupreme]

I hadn't thought about this at all, but I agree. You films are art and should be defended as such.

[@ryanrockers]

I consider any thin sticky viscous layer on something to be a film

[@Channel9Productions]

It's funny how intimidating a simple word can be. When I make stuff I don't like using the word film because I feel like I can't back that claim up if that makes any sense.

[@owendubs]

I'm sure that one day cultural anthropologists will be looking at videos as a type of film or genre of film. I suppose, in a way, our current attitude towards videos as not being films facilitates the aesthetic of a lot of this movement regardless of whether they are actually films or not. People go into things a lot more lackadaisical and carefree when they don't have to picture "Big Art" looming over their shoulder so they make things with a vibe that would otherwise be much more difficult to obtain. An allegory I could make could be bands that make their first albums in their garage which are considered their best before they make it big and lose their spark because they go into the process of creation with a whole different attitude. Films or not I think that the lack of pressure to make films rather than videos facilitates films that would otherwise not exist. Will it be worse when everyone considers films to be what they are? I don't think so. It'll just be different.

[@joeltalksaboutmovies]

This is wonderfully put and a great additive point! Curious to see when and if that shift comes, and what it looks like.

[@aaaddddaaaammmm]

I agree! I am a filmmaker!

[@gremlinfilm]

I recently finished my first feature and it’s funny that I don’t feel that different about calling myself a filmmaker. I was a filmmaker before, I’m just a better one now. Calling my stuff films is intimidating because I spent 2 decades watching things that are hard to live up to. Calling my films “films” helps me better realize my potential and understand that they’re worth watching. Thank you Joel for your words of wisdom.

[@johndellacontrada9947]

The idea that these simple KZbin videos I watch might someday wind up in film analysis classes is such an exciting feeling. Watching history in the making. Some of the most impactful works of art I have seen in the last few years have been uploaded to this website.

[@Laki2]

This is the guy from Good Long Pee.

[@toshirokigai]

The thumbnail.... its..... MRBEEEEEEEAAAAASTTTT!!!!

[@catie33336]

your films shine a bright light into my heart Joel!

[@murtleisme]

I think we absolutely live in a golden age of self expression. It’s hard for a lot of people to really see what is great right at this moment as hindsight is such a big part of how we categorize and rank the art we consume. But I truly think that 50 or 60 years from now the era we’re living in right now will be remembered for its unparalleled rise of independent creators and the near unlimited amount of art that was not only created but was preserved or found an audience. Never before in human history has the average person had access to a pool as wide as we have now and that’s something I think we really need to see as being as amazing as it is.

[@jenniferbauman]

Consideration is a great word, but some people lack the study of critical thinking before speaking (or typing, ha). In-the-moment-thought equaling Truth, is a hard habit to break. I love your films, Joel. They are special.

[@elevadon]

A film, as I think of it, is a piece of footage made for the sake of displaying it as is For instance, I wouldn´t consider your average cat video a ´film´, for the value is purely in the subject, and the video is merely a way to show the subject. Similar to how ´photography´ and taking picture are different in connotation, taking a picture of an item in order to sell it on ebay is different from taking a picture for the sake of creating a nice picture. As long as the intend is to do more than just display the subject, I think it should be considered art I think nowadays we have a very limited idea of what counts as art, and if it doesn´t require any special skills or talents we´re all too quick to dismiss it as ´just a video´, or ´just some picture I took with my smartphone´ Your sketches affect me in a way that´s uniquely ´Joel Haver´, and I love it You´re genuinely one of my favorite film makers of today, and the fact that you captured the concept of a penis shrinking ray as a work of art is testament to that. Making little works of art is such a universal human experience, we shouldn´t be so elitist about it

[@bmckelvy5717]

Art is Art is Art is Art is Art, you know?

[@Black_Jesus3005]

This is a great film.

[@The_SOB_II]

I agree. It's like with any creative endeavor. I'm not nearly as skilled as I would like, but I have made music and I will make music, so I am a musician. That is a part of who I am; it describes me

[@codyclarke]

For the exact reason it bothers people is why you should keep saying it. People used to talk of worrying that one day they'd be 80 and realize they never followed their artistic dreams. A more modern version of that might be someone who followed their artistic dreams all their life, but never realized that they did, because they dismissed it all as just 'content'. It's important for people to realize NOW that what they're doing is art, not later.

[@Mr_Meeks]

I wish film schools would show your stuff. I feel like it would be so eye-opening for a lot of aspiring filmmakers to see your perspective. It really puts everything in a different context. Filmmaking is art and art is creation and no one should ever feel like they "have" to do anything a certain way to feel their expression is validated. You're a massive inspiration dude, keep it up. Also a question: have you thought about selling your movies on a physical format? would love to have drowning in potential on my bookshelf

[@theorangecollective.7663]

This channel rocks.

[@MrGrimlocke]

Your films are pretty cool

[@yawningmarmot]

As Dennis Reynolds aptly put it, "Is art good just because the right people say it's good? Yes. Yes, that's how it works." Kinda the same with film: everyone's definition of what makes a film one differs, but you do you. Oh, and keep making your films, they are excellent :)

[@TimPortantno]

I always assumed "film" was the visual equivalent to a "novel", which would exclude most shorts, and weirdly anything nonfiction.

[@stufco]

Some people have a real need to define and delineate nebulous concepts in a clear and understandable way, and it's a shame. They miss the profound absurdity of all our creative endeavors. You're fighting the good fight, exploring new ideas, being so consistently playful, and it's a breath of fresh air. The idea that you need an industrial machine behind you to be a legitimate artist gets less and less true every day, and your films are such a brilliant testament to that. I make games, and it's taken me years to be remotely comfortable with making that claim. In many ways it feels like such a similar dynamic, and so often I've come across people trying to define what a game is, plus there's always Ebert's famous assertion that "games are not art" to contend with. That's okay, though, I'm okay with not being an artist, at least not by whatever definition he's using. In the end, he's just some dude expressing an opinion, and we all have the right to be as narrow-minded as we please. But that comes with a price, and it can be easy to take it out on ourselves and shy away from trying something new in favor of doing what we've seen will sell. Anyway, felt relevant, maybe isn't, but just felt the need to say something. I really appreciate how exhausting this "debate" can be, and I applaud you for sharing your thoughts on "film" and creativity. As always, you're an inspiration. Thank you, Joel.

[@BandarAl-Wazzan]

Thanks Joel

[@PTUsher]

Hi Joel, my current PhD research into Filmish Media explores the importance - for today’s independent filmmakers - of embracing shifts in perceptions: what constitutes a film, how it is co-evolving with social media (my findings suggest using KZbin forms to make indie film more visible). You are a pioneer. I’d love to interview you for my thesis. How can I DM you please? Thank you for your time and inspiration.

[@joeltalksaboutmovies]

Hey Paul! Sounds like a lovely focus! Reach out via my email located in the about section of my main KZbin Channel!

[@PTUsher]

@@joeltalksaboutmovies thank you Joel! Will do.

[@PTUsher]

@@joeltalksaboutmovies Hi Joel, I’ve emailed you my PhD research summary. I tried to make it as short as possible! No rush at all. Pls let me know if you don’t receive it for any reason. Thanks again for your time!

[@ruben7801]

Cinematographs

[@Foxmosis_]

I'm glad that I've heard more people discourage the word "aspiring" "whatever" more because it's true. Did someone just start making paintings? Well great! That makes them a painter. Yeah they might not be at the skill level they want to at yet but they are making paintings. The only time someone is an "aspiring" "whatever" is when they want to try something out but they haven't done it yet.

[@goatgoat0]

I had only heard the term "movie" for most my life, and had only really heard "film" in reference to the medium or the act of filming. Later in life, it then seemed to me to have a sort of snooty connotation to it, for reasons you touched on. I'm glad you're helping to take it back. They made it sound so pristine and powerful, yet only applied it to a very distinct set of criteria, but now everyone can be a part of the process that they grew up around and fell in love with, yet felt so gated from trying to join in on.

[@caiusactinunwise1412]

It is wild to me, that people have gone to such great lengths in order to explain the differences between a film and a movie, when it all simply boils down to american and british naming convention a century ago.

[@SambRussell94]

I prefer to go the other way. Gone with the Wind is one of the all time great videos.

[@RJ_Ehlert]

Nice.

[@evansnyder6925]

I started calling my films videos, cuz no one can say they're not videos, and I don't care what you call them. But stupid people still try to tell my why my videos aren't films.

[@decepter5227]

You should do a short film that’s a silent film with incorrect subtitles and some audio bits like only the characters are silent and have to be displayed or maybe the rules for what’s in text versus what’s heard is inconsistent, idk if it’s been done before but I think it’d be funny

[@artrabum]

If u write me a 2-3 min animation script I’ll do it for a main channel post! I do 2d traditional beavis and butthead style cartoon. Lmk! Thnx for the inspiration bro

[@todayidrewapig]

I legitimately love the movie that's 7 minutes of a lemon ("Lemon"). Having a beautiful little piece of fruit on the table that you can look at is honestly enough for me. :^]

[@wege8409]

This sort of reminds me of the distinction between lyrics and poems. Lyrics are poems, but if you go around calling yourself a poet then suddenly you ought to be wearing a beret and smoking a cigarette. There's so much ego in how people treat words. I would argue that maybe security footage sitting in a vault somewhere is not a film, but if you find someone slipping on a banana peel somewhere in that vault then suddenly it's a film. This is a really great channel btw, love your work.

[@HoneyHexaComb]

If it’s recorded it’s filmed hence film.

[@adizzmal]

I guess it’s never really stuck out calling your films films, but I think it makes sense. I mean, I like to play sports and it would be ridiculous to say I’m not playing sports just because it’s not some huge production with refs and fans.

[@jacobchinn8593]

I think the negative connotation to the labels of 'youtuber' and 'content-creator' stems from people looking at KZbin at face value. For example, if you browse the KZbin home page/popular videos (without logging in), you will probably be innundated with vlogs, clickbaity titles, attention grabbing thumbnails, and surface level content that doesn't evoke the feelings of real fun, pure intention, or artistic expression (only content that is manufactured to gain the most popularity/attention with the algorithm). I think you are very fortunate to become popular on KZbin with your core values of film-making intact. However, I think most people would rather cut corners/'sell their soul'/follow the algorithm to achieve that same popularity.

[@murkywters]

I'm a simple man. If I see a video with a 4K Film Grain overlay on top, I know I'm watching a film.

[@RobbsHomemadeLife]

I think it's good to have standards and categories and rules and definitions. Almost every argument I hear is two people talking about two different things. But it all comes down to who gets to decide what is the definition of things. We always end up with the worst types of people thinking they own the linguistic landscape. Also, the English language is a living language. It changes over time. Someone once asked Picasso what was art. He said art was something that helped you see. I told this to a friend at work and he said, "so you mean art is an optometrist?" I have always thought most performance artists' work is closer to being a scam artist and I never really cared for any of Andy Warhol's films. But so long as I wasn't being made to pay for them I would have to be a Dick to discourage anybody from trying to create something. I don't know if aliens exist, but if they do and they visit Earth. I can only think of a couple things made by humans that they would want to see or experience. They sure as heck don't come for architecture or government or technology, but I bet they would get a kick out of our music and our movies. And if aliens did watch our movies. I don't think they would ever get hung up over the word film. Finally, if the Internet and video technology existed back in 1905 I would've loved to have seen what our great-great-grandparents were getting up to in their backyards and sheds and town squares and forests and snow-covered fields. It would have been glorious. It still is.

[@LateNight99]

After releasing my first feature film, I was shot down by numerous people in my local filmmaking community and shamed for mentioning it was a no budget film because they demanded that I spend more on a film. They shamed me for the length, saying it had to be over 60 minutes long before it could be considered a feature (my film, Over The Next Horizon is 40 minutes approx). It hasn’t stopped me talking about my movie, but I did find less kick back when I used words like ‘amateur, aspiring, developing’ in relation to my filmmaking.

[@LateNight99]

When I say ‘shamed’ I mean proper bullying and name calling and demanding that I stop sharing it under the guise of ‘feature filmmaking’

[@joeltalksaboutmovies]

Reactions like that more times than not are rooted in envy. Try your best to not get discouraged and keep making art the way you find best!

[@Spudson]

It's impossible to nail down a universally agreed distinction between art and content. But my personal criteria is whether or not the piece of media in question was made with the creator's heart. If the creator of the piece cared about what they were creating and subsequently injected a bit of their own soul into it, that's what makes it art.

[@a.KniteOwl]

4:05 I legit think that a lot of the "film" experience people have had with most of the MCU has been Disney astroturfing memes to make it seem more relevant than it is, and then letting the masses soak that up. our longterm experience of a film and it's shelflife isn't truly contained to the movie itself. we all have rorschachian differences in our minds that interpret movies differently. so to me, Space Jam or Into The Spider-Verse is super fun because of the soundtrack. I can live a good percentage of that movie just by listening to the CDs of them. that adds to the movies shelf life. I don't listen to the soundtrack to Spiderman No Way Home. that movie, like a lot of the MCU, is just made to push product and move on. they used the "old actors come back" trick to get people into the theaters, but then that's it. Disney has a whole cinematic universe at their disposal and they decided to just make the boys show up one day because of a magic wish and then leave. the sincerity felt lacking. but that doesn't matter to most people who live their life through the "soundtrack" release of memes. you can cherry pick moments from the movie and act like they mean whatever you want them to. you can look at one picture of Tom Holland looking kinda sad and say "this movie was deep because it dealt with guilt and loss they didn't have to go this hard fr", and suddenly people are engaging with "the film" by advertising/talking about it. and sometimes that's a fun experience to be honest. memes/tiktok/youtube, like it or not these are where the films have gone. Hollywood replaced vaudeville, but we still have Broadway. and now KZbin/Tiktok is the new member of the family

[@darnbricks]

Yeah, this entire movie/film discussion has been outdated for quite a while now. Maybe we should just refer to digital films as a frantic amalgamation of jpegs - like: 'Hey bro, wanna watch my faj?'

[@MisterFeline]

On a similar note, I find myself perplexed whenever I hear the phrase, "This isn't just a movie, it's art." It floats around places like imdb and reddit a lot. Though it's clearly intended to be praise, I just can't wrap my head around thinking films that you don't like *aren't* art. What even makes it art at the point? Your personal taste? Your assessment of its "value?" To me, it makes much more sense to consider film an artform, and all films within it, inherently, art.

[@mrgor24]

This makes sense to me. I'm currently creating my own series of (what I have been calling) videos, and have put well over 200 hours in at this point. But when I've told people what I'm doing it has not gotten any real reaction relative to the amount of effort I'm putting in. I will try calling them films and see if anything changes 🤷

[@josefoliver2874]

I did make a short film a few months back that was just ambient shots at a lake I edited together and put sound effects on, and I got some compliments from people. I was talking about a response I got to it recently with a friend who had also seen it and I called it "my movie" and he said "you did not just call THAT a movie." So yeah, for some reason people just have their own definition that satisfies them, personally I think if I call it a movie and it meets the extremely slim qualifications for being a movie then it's a movie.

[@leolucas6232]

When he was talking about the film components that Andy Warhol’s “blowjob” doesn’t have (3:03), I was really hoping he would add on “but it does have a climax”

[@cookierill]

I do wonder, though: Do you personally consider your individual shorts as important to your filmography as your features? I feel like so many feature filmmakers treat their shorts like an afterthought, while mine are every bit as important to understanding my work as my features (maybe even more so)

[@joeltalksaboutmovies]

I’d say importance is hard to measure! I’d say as puzzle pieces that will ultimately make up the story of my day to day life, they all have their place and that story would be incomplete without them. Of course an emotionally taxing feature carries a different weight than a comedic short, but comedy is important to my life as well. I’d say it’s less a direct comparison and more that they act differently in different facets of my work and life.

[@josepablodeleon6073]

It depends on the creator's view. I doubt SNL or even Smosh call their work "films". A comedy short film and a comedy skit are for the most part different things. Like you said, most "films" do have an artistic purpose or discourse that can be delivered through humor. But for the most part, skits are just a gag or a joke extended to 5 minutes and that's it, and audiences don't see an artistic value in that.

[@certifiedlosenger4300]

I suppose my one question here is whether you would count any footage taken at any point, for any reason, regardless of later distribution, as a film? In my own studies as a biologist I have had to work on manually recording the activity of fruit flies by watching 30 second long videos (or films) or had a computer sift through this automatically (both approaches have their downsides) and this kind of footage is often made accessible for anyone reading a paper that utilises it. I can see how this footage could "become" a film if published for any other purpose, but in its current state as essentially a way of collecting, storing or even transmitting (up to a point) data I'm not sure I'd call it a "film" in the conventional sense. I suppose a similar question could apply in relation to security camera footage. There's obviously also the literal definition of a camera film, which excludes practically everything we encounter in the 21st century anyway so if you were feeling facetious you could probably find some ridiculous argument irrespective of whatever people actually mean when they call something a film. Whatever the the precise semantics I 100% agree that nobody's got any business going after people for referring to their creations as films and I'm sorry you have had to deal with that.

[@pichitosmalltown3239]

Some people dislike democratizing the title of filmmaker and generalizing videos as films because they feel like it makes the art form and experience less special--what to them were these diamonds in the rough are suddenly just rocks you can see everywhere. That's what I think. It would be really nice if we all just decided for ourselves what is special to us rather than relying on the power of semantics to elevate forms of media above others.

[@yonasegeleta9833]

Yeah, often the semanitcs and qualifications are insisted apon by the dominant culutre/ruling class. ie the studio system, or social structures that don't value stories told from certain perspectives

[@WoodenWizard]

commenters correcting the use of the word film are just dictionary nerds who are ignoring or missing the point and purpose of art and if they enjoyed it or not. I agree with Joel, but it does not really matter what its called. getting hung up on what to call the form of the artwork displays a lack of willingness, ability, or skill to engage in and discuss the content of the art. Joel's other videos on this channel are a masterclass in analyzing content.

[@thelonleypancake]

those people also miss that film is in shortfilm

[@evansnyder6925]

Cinema has so much untapped potential, but most of the big budget mainstream films are just doing the same old boring crap over and over again. I think some of the most exciting and innovative films are the ones that many people don't give a chance and say they're not real films, simply because they're so different than what we're used to seeing. At least three of Joel's films (Island, Pretend That You Love Me, and We Have to Leave Here Together) are truly groundbreaking, mind-blowing experiences, and if you think they're not films then you are incredibly stupid.

[@Dillonsimpsonfan]

This is a silly comment to make, but Joel I love your shirt!! Where did you get it?

[@joeltalksaboutmovies]

Thank you Dillon! My mom gave it to me for Christmas, I wish I had more info!

[@Dillonsimpsonfan]

That’s okay. Thank you for inspiring me & so many others. You have been a constant source of light in my creative journey since I discovered your channel back in 2021

[@cookierill]

It’s funny, because I DO have a particular definition of “cinema” (the same one as Kent Jones and Soderbergh), but I can’t think of many things people describe as cinema that don’t fall inside it (the only major exception might be certain kinds of video installations, but even then I don’t treat it as any sort of put down). I think a lot of your shorts are unquestionably Cinema, even if I’m often sad I can’t rate them on Letterboxd :’(

[@DETHMOKIL]

It's only a video if it comes from the video region of japan.

[@bejita7831]

One of *my* pet peeves is when people say "you're just arguing semantics" as a form of dismissal. Semantics is the nuaunced meaning of words - it is the fine-tuning of language so that we can share ideas more accurately. Semantics are important. Reading this comment looksa bit like I might be trying to disagree with the video. I am not, and I hope it doesn't read like that.

[@yonasegeleta9833]

Meme's are a very powerful form of media. In my head there's a distinction between an ORIGINAL vine-style meme video and those post ironic/deepfried meme vids where it's just a compilation of a bunch of random clips and soundboard sounds that are reposted. People have such a knee-jerk reaction to independent artists, BUT ESPECIALLY FILMAKERS, declaring that their work is consequential. I feel like the gen pop's scope of what a film is has been getting limited in the last couple years with the influx of spectacle block-busters and capitalism, studios etc, so it's super important to push back against restrictive definitions of what film is and what it takes to be a filmmaker

[@AlecLang]

❤

[@jadegecko]

these aren't films, films are thin membranes of residue The last film I saw was on my glasses, and I wiped it away

[@rooty]

Young people might be surprised to learn that we actually called films "videos"

[@Kougi]

I'm a film. And you know what Joel, you might just be one too..

[@BigArmBoss]

Silly kids with your "digital cameras" and "youtubes". No photochemical emulsions for you! Oh, no, Mr. Fancypants Technobabble! Too good for some good old flammable celluloid, are you? When you've burned down a theater when the projectionist flicked his cigarette onto the second reel of your talkie, then you can talk to me about "film"!

[@connororeilly3387]

I always thought films were actually shot in film celluloid, and movies were everything else, but call it whatever you want Joel, I love your films (feature and shorter).

[@TheBrilliantBrick]

Yeah, it sounds cooler. 😎😎😎

[@johnwerner69]

I'm not sure if this is an American problem because here in Europe we call all kinds of videos for film

[@durleywanger2801]

You can only call them films if you use a film camera

[@MikeGervasi]

"Film" is art. Film is a collection of still pictures given artificial insemination. Film is film.

[@sagewaterdragon]

I think a lot of people conflate "films" with "feature films," that might be where the confusion comes from. The shorts you make are absolutely short films by any reasonable definition.

[@devastatheseeker9967]

Wouldn't movie be more accurate? Unless they're being recorded to actual film

[@laylahassomethingtosay]

On the flip side I know what people mean when they talk about their "content," but it's just has such a nasty connotation to me. As if their work could not stand on its own or have worth in its own right. As if it only exists to populate a larger platform. I know to some people it just doesn't matter, but I sometimes fear that certain words that we use in an attempt to be humble could lead us to subconsciously devalue our own efforts

[@rookie6185]

Michael Jackson was always very deliberate about calling his music videos short films. I think he wanted his films to be seen as art, not just promotional tools.

[@MordecaiandMonroe]

Its not on film though

[@pc15pdx]

I’m curious, would you call this KZbin video a film? Or this style? There are so many more lines that are blurred by KZbin like are gaming videos films? Vlogs? Commentary videos? Tutorials? That’s a discussion I want to have.

[@Cooljoe55]

Would you call a documentary a film?

[@pc15pdx]

@@Cooljoe55 100%

[@joeltalksaboutmovies]

If somebody can engage with a moving image in anyway and believe that moving image to be a film, then, to me, it's a film. It's far easier and more interesting to be inclusive than exclusive!

[@DudeBronkster]

I have nothing to contribute to this discussion right now. I just wanna say: That's a sick shirt, Joel. And the bed sheets aren't bad either.

[@xyz.anonymous]

"there are too many movies" okay and then you decide to upload a film weekly?? what the fuck joel???