Richard Dawkins vs Ayaan Hirsi Ali: The God Debate

📰 Subscribe to UnHerd today at: bit.ly/3Qdkd5y
At the UnHerd-sponsored Dissident Dialogues Festival in New York, Richard Dawkins and Ayaan Hirsi Ali discussed her recent conversion to Christianity, and whether the whole ‘New Atheism’ movement of which they had both been key members had done more harm than good.
Watch it on the UnHerd website: unherd.com/watch-listen/the-g...
Listen to the podcast: plnk.to/unherd?to=page
Follow UnHerd on social media:
Twitter: / unherd
Facebook: / unherd
Instagram: / unherd
TikTok: / unherdtv
// TIMECODES //
00:00 - 05:34 - Ayaan Hirsi Ali's conversion from atheism to Christianity, with Richard Dawkins' reaction
05:34 - 12:50 - Faith, religion, and personal experiences
12:50 - 21:54 - Christianity and its impact on society
21:54 - 31:34 - Faith, reason, and the role of religion in society
31:34 - 38:40 - Faith, religion, and truth
38:40 - 46:45 - The decline of Christianity and the rise of Islamism
46:45 - 55:27 - Morality, religion, and the role of Christianity in society
55:27 - 1:01:18 - Religion, atheism, and Islam
1:01:18 - 1:07:19 - Islamism and its impact on society
#UnHerd #AyaanHirsiAli #RichardDawkins

[@tomclowes5874]

Ayaan is a new Christian, 6 months or so in. I think it's very brave standing in front of an audience and also a friend trying to give a reason for her hope

[@LettyK]

Yes, especially against an atheist that cannot understand her experience. Some atheists have had an OBE which brought them to Christ.

[@keksi6844]

Irony is that Dawkins is mocking Jesus while Ayaan is mocking Islam and yet Islam is only religion that recognizes Jesus,his birth and miracles and power from God. That is New Age Christianity for you.

[@cerealdude890]

@@LettyKthe first thing she said is that she didn’t have one of those experiences.

[@TheFirstManticore]

I'm sure her faith has been developing for more than six months; but she finally came to the point that she was obliged to announce her change of position, at the very least. But she and Richard are still long time friends, so she knows how to talk to him. They disagree but they are not enemies. And she has always been courageous.

[@LettyK]

@@cerealdude890 Yes, I wasn't referring to Ayaan but to some atheists.

[@ronburg8544]

I just love how they embrace at the start and finish. Nothing moves me more than two people who still care for each other deeply despite having differing opinions. This is how civil discourse should be done.

[@rosemaryalles6043]

So true. Brought me to tears.

[@simonegregoire2004]

Yes ❤

[@dveryblueblood]

Yeah

[@chadreilly]

Soy

[@llsnewzealandcafe]

違いは...👧👦🧠 #SantaClausing🎅or not...👧👦🧠#Control🎤👩🤺　　　　　#SelfControl🌀🏄🌊#Resilience🔥♰🐨💉👧🧠＃ScienceMatters📺#反科学🤺＃Education🍑🎣🌊#学際的✨🌏🌎🌍🌤☄🦕🌌⌛🔭

[@janb7589]

45years ago I was suicidal and found no hope in life - I was given a bible and began reading the New Testament. I struggled for months to read it, but something made me persevere and after about 6 months I was reading the gospel of John chapter 8 and as I was reading the account of the woman caught in adultery the words of Jesus " neither do I condemn you, go and sin no more." somehow broke my hard heart and resonated deeply in my heart, it was as if He spoke those words just to me. I felt my heart breaking in a good way and prayed for the first time in my life and asked forgiveness and help. Jesus changed my life from that very moment and I found I now had a why and how for my life. It has been an amazing and wonderful journey, certainly not without crisis or pain, but knowing Christ and trusting Him has bought me through by His amazing Grace. Truly I have tasted and tested and found that He is not only God but that He is good and He loves us so deeply and dearly. I so wish that all might know this love and peace. thank you for this wonderful debate.

[@ginettenyota283]

Glory be to God

[@david29478]

I like your testimony man, the way you worded it! Most people share their testimonies in a "overly emotional / dramatical" way. But you didn't, you kept it simple yet beautiful.

[@pajerry33]

Thank you. I prayed with my one teacher in 1985. I was convicted of my sin, repented and received Christ. Before that I tried to be good in own strength, now I live out my faith from the starting point of being forgiven and knowing God's love, His grace and this freedom motivates me. God's word guides me. I am whole.

[@seawolf7649]

Clinically depressed people are common targets and victims of cults and cult mentality.

[@katrinayakizz]

So Jesus saved your life but doesnt care for the lives other inocent people who die every day of disesases, eartquakes. How about children who die of hunger. How about chidlren who die of cancer? who didnt even had the opportunity to experience life. Good for you, you might be better than the others.

[@twitchly]

As a Christian, I agree with Mr. Dawkins that the way forward is to embrace truth, not fictions that make us feel better. I fought becoming a Christian because I didn’t want to believe it. But I did believe, and in the end I had to recognize that and stop living a lie.

[@jonmartin3220]

Amen. I was describing this to my friend as not converting to Christianity but slowly coming to realize that Christ had been in my heart from the beginning

[@mooktemas6800]

Well said. I hope Hirsi comes to the point where she really believes. It’d be easier for her to respond with certainty.

[@joekey8464]

One of the smartest man in history was astonished by the universe. Einstein - “The eternal mystery of the world is its comprehensibility,” he said. “The fact that it is comprehensible is a miracle.”.

[@joekey8464]

Of the billions of specie that have ever existed on earth only humans, know of the use of the mathematical disciplines, which are the works of that reason by which men surpass beasts, for brutes cannot number, weigh, and measure. “ "The world is endowed with lawfulness and purpose.” Wisdom 11.21 of the Bible states that God, “ordered all things by measure, number, weight.” In Ecclesiasticus 42.21, it is written that “He has imposed an order on the magnificent works of his wisdom.

[@finnogorman5683]

Why did you believe?

[@ursusk8358]

A brave ex muslim woman from Afrika was needed to make us understand and remember who we are and to honour our civilization and faith. A passionate and fearless voice was raised not from within our culture but from a Somalian to animate and encourage us to honour and look after our threattened culture that inspite of all its flaws has bestowed humanity with priceless cultural and spiritual values. To do what we should do she has put her own life at risk. Her death sentence for "apostasy and offence to Islam" was written on a sheet attached to a dagger stuck into the chest of her friend Theo van Gogh slain by a maroccan for "blasphemy and offence to Islam."

[@MaryAlafouzo]

0:24

[@MaryAlafouzo]

0:24

[@matthewphilip1977]

It's reason that's bestowed the good, not Christianity. Christianity endorsed slavery, homophobia, misogny, Imperialism, beating children, etc, etc; reason picked away at those things to get us where we are today.

[@rosemaryalles6043]

💜 True.

[@bimfred]

yeah but loads of Muslims think they’re right. Are they going to hell?

[@brianmillerthomas]

"But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

[@adriel6421]

The religious at the time of Jesus was also natural man. So it is not about religion/belief that there is a god. There are natural man in religion and natural man of the world (who have no belief in the supernatural). Anyone who is not born again by the Holy Spirit is a natural man, who do not understand the things of the Spirit. They will read the Bible and understand it in the flesh, and they will therfore walk by sight. A religious not regenerated person will not understand, just like a person who have rejected God. 1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. Romans 9:6-8 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. Galatians 3:28-29 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. Romans 2:28-29 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. Philippians 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. Galatians 4:28-31 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free. John 3:3-5 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. John 15:4-5 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. Matthew 3:9-10 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 1 John 2:22-23 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 2 John 9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. Galatians 6:15-16 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God. 2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

[@benlee3071]

God doesn’t exist

[@rosemaryalles6043]

💜

[@DainBramaged00]

A wonderful quote from a wonderful chapter - here's another: "Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, nor has it entered into the mind of man what God has in store for those who love Him." If you're not a believer, give it a chance anyway. It will be the best gamble you ever made.

[@th3voice]

@@DainBramaged00 Okay, fine. I'll make an attempt at accepting Odin. His track record is among the best of all the divines; I've had not a SINGLE problem with frost giants all my life.

[@tonynoname7644]

Praise God for her salvation. Her story is like a modern day Saul of Tarsus. May many come to Christ through her story. I also went from religion to atheism, but the darkness and despair only intensified causing me to go and seek for answers both atheism and religion say no one can know. In the end my quest brought me face with Jesus Christ and His claims. To my surprise i fell in love with Him, and His rising from the dead was indeed convincing evidence to demonstrate it is true. When i trusted Him, i then knew experientially that He is indeed the Son of yhe living God who died for my sin to save me. Glory to God for such a great love!

[@rosemaryalles6043]

💜

[@janelliot5643]

No, she said she did NOT see a bright light or anything like that, which means she came to this by intellect, not by being knocked off a horse. Although that sounds like it might be closer to your own experience which is great but I don't think it's hers

[@bimfred]

pretty sure God is a dumbo.

[@Macceee]

The fact that adult human beings still believes in the tooth fairy ("God") in this enlightened age 2024 is beyond shocking.

[@rosemaryalles6043]

@@Macceee Since none of us can see into the heart of another human, perhaps less arrogance and certainty and more empathy and understand is the secular humanist way?

[@wesleytilley]

The obnoxious clapping when each side thinks their team has scored a point is annoying and a sign of the times. I’d be curious to know how many people in the crowd were actually open to having their mind changed that day or if they were there just to confirm their bias.

[@user-gf5nu9os2n]

You're exactly the same. Don't pretend you aren't 🙄

[@FriedMetroid]

They also both had hilarious WWE intro music, guess it was just that kind of debate

[@Joe_C.]

This isn't a debate about "God".... Or Christianity, or religion really whatsoever

[@brianmillerthomas]

Richard calls Jesus' substitutionary death on the cross as the means of salvation disgusting, and asks here (and elsewhere) why God didn't choose a different way of remitting sins. But the principle of giving up your life for another is admirable. It is lauded in war when a soldier goes into no-mans land to save a life and loses his, and in peacetime, when someone jumps into a river or the sea to save the life of another. It is a concept we deeply admire. I don't know why he has a problem with it.

[@michaelhart1072]

Eh. If a person gave up their life for a pointless cause then we’d consider him a fool. Of course Dawkins is deliberately missing the point about how God wants to interact with the world

[@pmaspmas]

Jesus didn't really die as such, since he was resurrected a few days later (and being part of the trinity, he knew this was going to happen). So not exactly a big deal, as far as I'm concerned.

[@harrytrousers]

Yes, when most Christians hear Dawkins say this they think "this is seriously his go to argument?" they cant believe how juvenile it is. He wilfully ignores many aspects of Christ's death so he can argue that it's messed up. Even the least informed Christians can see how simple he is being.

[@Rallylabs]

The concept of inventing a method of redemption(god can supposedly literally do whatever he wants) that requires deliberately sending your son to be brutally tortured and murdered for some reason before you can forgive anyone of anything is deranged and disgusting yes. It it the sort of thing a demented psychopath with schizophrenia would come up with.

[@gregorytaylor9104]

​@@pmaspmasYes, crucifixion is for wimps.

[@realitybites265]

Seeing people choosing feelings and faith over reality and facts is very depressing

[@georgemacintyre2858]

The test of a 'Christian' is not so much a theological or even a Christological assertion that can fit into a neat 'orthodoxy' , but that they can convey , somehow , the living Christ to another person , and this woman does that for me in an extraordinary and real way .

[@alisterrebelo9013]

Correct. The cerebral athiest has little capacity for appreciating another way of experiencing world.

[@koroglurustem1722]

You clearly have some portion of conscience telling you how unintelligible and illogical are your assertions about the man god who can be crucified. I am baffled how humans can buy the most illogical thing to 'save himself' even if it's a false salvation. You're following Paul, not Jesus. Jesus taught that the highest command is Shema, i.e. Oneness of God and Jesus fell on his face to worship the Father in heaven just like Muslims do. Jesus gave the criteria for the true prophet as teachings about the God (Oneness and the Law of God) and he also said the true prophet will recognise Jesus as the Messiah. Now let's examine Paul's teachings. Yes, he claimed Jesus to be the Messiah but Paul out of nowhere claimed that the Law is abolished. Wasn't Jesus circumsized? Wasn't he doing sabbath? Wasn't Jesus avoiding pork? What about Paul? All the opposites! Now examine Islam. Islam recognises Jesus as the Messiah. Islam confirmed sabbath for the Jews and also introduced light version of prohibitive Laws for the whole mankind.

[@NondualChristian]

@@alisterrebelo9013 Perfectly put!

[@trumpisastump9382]

The "test" of a christian is that they believe in christianity and its foundational documents (the bible). Modify that to being a nice person as you seem to, then there is no need or justification for the religion itself.

[@trumpisastump9382]

@@alisterrebelo9013 Typical religious nonsense trying to criticize knowledge and critical thinking.

[@aidanya1336]

I dunno but when someone says we need to leave behind our rational thinking, all my BS alarm bells are going off. This is exactly how you can make any falsehood seem true.

[@jozsefnemeth935]

She did not say what you are staying. She said that you need to make a metaphysical choice that has sufficient explaining power for the logical reasoning of known facts and the subjective experiences and values. You simply cannot have a scientific argument that can eliminate the Christian trinitarian God from the set of possible metaphysical premises. Note He is a humble and loving God who does not want to impose himself rather wants to conquer your heart as Mary s heart. Jesus teaches by His example of humbleness

[@michaelhart1072]

Nobody said what you’re claiming. Clean your ears

[@jonmartin3220]

Seems more rational that life comes from life than life comes from dead cold nothingness. Just base level logic

[@jrg2671]

@@jonmartin3220 Yeah, that's why all philosophers and biologist are believers. Educate yourself. You don't believe a "rainer" is needed for rain to fall, do you? Don't you think life comes from life leads to an infinite regression?

[@jonmartin3220]

@@jrg2671 rain and biological life are different in the fundamental category of their nature. But yes, rain requires a cloud. People are not convinced by reason, logic, or facts. They come up with reason, logic, and facts to justify that in which they already have faith. The placebo effect illustrates how differing beliefs held by a living thing alter the material reality. Some could interpret this as a miracle, others might say it is an illustration of faith in action. What you believe effects your experience of a thing. Ayaan is sharing her testimony on this front.

[@peterlewis-rs6db]

This conversation was quite frustrating because it’s evident that Hirsi Ali has chosen to endorse Christianity for political expediency rather than based on a logical analysis. She despised Islam. Twenty years ago, she decided that the best way to counteract it was through promoting atheism. However, over time, she realized that atheism didn't offer an appealing alternative for the masses seeking meaning and community. Recognizing the need for a more structured belief system, she has now embraced Christianity, believing it can provide a more attractive and viable alternative to Islam. Throughout the discussion, Dawkins’ questions highlighted her lack of critical engagement with the problems of ontology and her failure to reconcile the details of Christian belief with scientific understanding.

[@trulyrandom]

The political thing is just a convenient excuse she is well versed to blabber about. She basically has mental health issues and needs some delusion for personal comfort.

[@EphSix12]

So she discovered that Christianity simply makes sense? How else was she supposed to come to Christianity? I think she did the work, and came to the truth.

[@km0262]

@@EphSix12The question is does she actually believe in the theology and not just the moral system Christianity provides.

[@Bookswinters]

Without belief in a soul, original sin, and that Jesus is the son of God, there can be no gospel message. Christianity reduced to a convenient, structured moral system is not what Jesus and martyr's died for. They died for their beliefs.

[@PClanner]

Totally agree with you Peter. When you look through the lens of Islam political implementation, then the only way to make sense of the world incorporates that leaning. Personally, I believe that some people NEED to believe in magical friends - their lives are not complete without them, and Ayaan is such an individual (just an observation NOT a judgement).

[@knarfx4732]

After watching the whole debate I have to said that as an atheist I don’t have a moral vacuum and if you have one fill it up with Buddhism, there are so many choices for this called “moral vacuum” than Ayan is making a point of.

[@nrx8684]

I think Ayan is looking for a news headlines, media forgot about her and she is seeking for attention. I am not convinced she is a christian

[@user-gf5nu9os2n]

Definitely

[@MarkNOTW]

What would she need to say to convince you she is a Christian?

[@user-gf5nu9os2n]

@@MarkNOTW Simply tell us she believes that Jesus rose from the dead. But she can't say that. All she can say is "I chose to believe it"... Which is qualifying her words. She wants to retain a small bit of rationality. Everyone knows that Christians are totally 100% stupid

[@Hattan-Otaibi]

@@MarkNOTW She should say "accept Jesus as your lord and savior, or you will go to hell", and sound/look like a mentally ill semi-evolved human ..

[@captainlockes2344]

I can see how it could lead to depression and despair if a religion was your identity growing up and then suddenly you threw it all away without having something equivalent to take its place. That’s losing a big part of yourself.

[@collin501]

I think it was much later when the depression came, not when she i initially lost her Muslim faith.

[@mrscharmless]

I’m a former atheist that was raised secular without basically any religious background. I firmly believe that everyone has a God-sized emptiness inside their hearts that only He can fill. We don’t always tune into this - we’re busy with our everyday lives! But if you ever take a moment to really think about it, I think you will find the longing.

[@lhurst9550]

People do need something, but the way forward is not a LIE. No matter how pretty you think the lie is.

[@solidground338]

It doesn’t take much to destroy and it doesn’t take much to join a group that appear to be trending. Atheists and Islam appear to be trending in the west but both are illogical.

[@lhurst9550]

@@solidground338 There is nothing illogical about rationality, you are extremely confused with emotions. Of the big three religions of today, there may be a lessor evil, but it is still evil.

[@solidground338]

@@lhurst9550 You and your father Richard Dawkins lack basic sense of comprehension. Your father Richard Dawkins believes everything comes from nothing, that’s the greatest miracle yet he mock people that said someone resurrected from the dead. If nothing created everything how is it difficult to believe someone resurrected from the dead?

[@lhurst9550]

@@solidground338 Your false premise is everything comes from nothing, no atheist believes something came from nothing. The only people that do are the ones that think their imaginary friend poofed existance out of nothing. The fact is YOU are the ones that think something came from nothing, "magic". Every argument you can come up with boils down to you need a god of the gaps, the gaps in your knowledge, therefore must be 'god'. Science has placed your god in a tiny hole, that is all you have. Your god is a mask for your ignorance.

[@solidground338]

@@lhurst9550 funny enough majority of scientists are Christians, most of the Nobel laureates in science are Christians. Secondly denying or not making an argument on how everything came to being is why I said atheists lack basic sense of comprehension. Making an argument how billions of years something form doesn’t solve the problem of how everything came to be. Thirdly the Big Bang theory was discovered by a Catholic priest lol. Our God is mighty, is through His wisdom we were able to build western civilisation, remove Him and see everything crumble like we are experiencing now. Atheists simply destroy, like I said before it doesn’t take much to destroy. Any foolish person can destroy.

[@advocate1563]

What a woman. Never violent, rude, or foul mouthed, but always clear.

[@PollyPetropolis]

Definitely she doesn't believe in god either. It's for political purposes

[@asmasultana8775]

she was an orthodox Muslim once

[@RoyalFalcon777]

She is so blessed. Glory to God the Father Son HolySpirit 👑✝️👑 ExMuslim

[@ecxstasy347]

It seems like to me that she’s more of a “spiritual christian” than a “theological/doctrinal christian”.

[@sathrielsatanson]

No, she is a political/social/psychological Christian. She joined Christianity because of her hour of weakness and because she is afraid of wokeness/Islam/China. It's the same as man joining Christianity on his deathbed.

[@robertosei8867]

i felt soo too but her spirituality also comes from recognising the spiritual quality from the moral foundation with which christianity has civilised the west. to lose this quality would create a spiritual void of the west, thereby causing a rise in Islam which from her experience is quite revolting. If christianity produces this quality, then Christ who embodies it is who she has decided to look up to, indeed looks like she has found her cross and will follow the Christ.

[@rosemaryalles6043]

Yes.

[@TheSafeHavenPodcast]

Of course when you first become a Christian it is purely a spiritual experience and then become theological and doctrinal as you mature. She’s accepted God spiritually and she’s been living a life of an atheist, science, and naturalism. Now there’s no doubt that God exist and she will discover God on a personal level and God will guide her in her theology and doctrine.

[@jrg2671]

You mean she has no reason to believe what she believes. She does because it's expedient for her (makes her feel better) or she thinks it's expedient for western civilisation. Whether it is actually true or not doesn't seem to have much interest for her. In my opinion that's a dishonest intelectual stance.

[@Karsonn3333-ef1cc]

These two are great friends so it is touching to see them relate. I don't know who could play the role of Theological expert here, but it would be good to have a third person, since Ayaan is "new" to Christianity, and may not yet have theological Christian points addressed.

[@karatekid7640]

Ayan said that modern secular rationalist society is itself a product of Christianity because it appear in the West and not anywhere else, this is itself a false Christian narrative. Most eastern religions including Confucianism in China, Japan are more modern and secular and arose far before western society get out of dark age at the least. In India Hinduism may have many issues today but the core philosophies have many atheistic rationalist secular philosophies, like Buddhism where enlightenment itself means the existence of God is not important at all for humanity. Similarly there are Hindu charvaka philosophy that denies there's any god or afterlife and lay importance on making present life better for everybody. There are a few more Hindu sects which are essentially atheistic, all of them before Christianity ever left Europe. I'm not saying this as a Hindu atheist tired of western narrative of inventing everything by renaming it in English, but as a secular rationalist who genuinely believes that religions has hijacked moral values ingrained in the human psyche, twisting and reselling them to us again... Just like Christianity has stolen pagan culture like Christmas. So people being "cultural Christian" is more like being cultural pagan. Also since Ayaan seems so impressed by Christianity I must throw some more light on its effect in India. India doesn't have any shortage of its own problem from casteism to perpetual poverty, but Christian missionaries (including "Mother" Teresa) taking people money collected for charity and sending it to Vatican all the while torturing sick and helpless to promote suffering - that's what Christianity brings to India. So are bishops sexually assaulting children and nuns and getting away with it with the influence of the pope. Also the few Christian majority states of India are markedly more religious extremists than non-Christian states... So much for Christian secularism. Since Ayaan has become such a proponent for Christianity missionaries over rationality she's also inadvertently responsible for this...

[@claremountfort2691]

Ayaan said it, "I find that Christianity is obsessed with love."

[@lisapardue4534]

I’m a Christian and I’m obsessed with loving Jesus. But what if love was taken out of the world? What would we have then? We’d have misery, depression, suicidal tendencies run amok, we’d have a toss away society because nothing would matter and nothing would be worth saving.

[@finaldaylight3804]

Love solves everything, that is why we are obsessed with it.

[@scottgodlewski306]

Would it be unfair to also say Christianity is obsessed with sin, as Dawkins said?

[@user-gf5nu9os2n]

That couldn't be further from the truth, going off the evidence

[@saadkeani6604]

The amount of death and destruction christianity has caused says otherwise.

[@josiahselectricgaming1566]

It is my deepest prayer that Richard will also become a Christian, not just a cultural one, but a true believer.

[@PianoDentist]

I am sure he will, as soon as someone presents *unambiguous, clear evidence* of the existence of the specific god being argued for. Which is all an Atheist is waiting for.

[@Birdieupon]

@@PianoDentist He's already been given that evidence, but refuses to engage with it - preferring instead to cling to his "Ultimate Boeing 747 Gambit" argument, which has been refuted numerous times (including by atheists and agnostics) since The God Delusion was first published.

[@spikeontheroad2560]

there is no rational scientific evidence for the existence of God. absolutely zero. The fact that some people have a feeling and that they have a subjective experience of their life working better is not evidence of anything. many children enjoyed Christmas more when they believed in Santa Claus. the fact that they believed it and it made their life better doesn't make Santa Claus real. some people are fine going through their life with a non-scientific belief guiding their actions. other people are just built differently. All I want as an atheist is for those people with non-rational beliefs to not use those beliefs to try and control my behavior.

[@kalu8652]

@@PianoDentist ironically, if Christianity is true, then there will never be such evidence, and most people will reject God and go to destruction as told by the Bible. So our current reality matches exactly what we would expect if Christianity is true.

[@franmorrison1080]

@@PianoDentist a word picture of the coming literal kingdom on earth. Psalm 72; Acts 1: 1-11; Isaiah 11. Also the decline of true Christiantiy had already started in the first Century, and was warned about by the writers of the New Testament, e.g. I John 4:1 'do not believe every spirit, but try the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many flase prophets have gone out into the world.... and in the 'last days' I Timothy 4: 1-3 ' now the Spirit expressely says that in the later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons..."

[@FraserBailey-jm5yz]

Ayaan Hirsi Ali is a truly remarkable person, whatever you think of her religious beliefs. Her first autobiography - Infidel - is a fantastic book which I wholeheartedly recommend.

[@frankxu4795]

I 100% agree with you until her conversion to Christianity. She clearly has chose religion for utilitarian purpose and emotional comfort. As Dawkins best put it, it's using a milder version of virus to combat a more dangerous version of virus. She clearly chose to not justify her thought with evidences. Whenever Dawkins pressed that topic, she just pressed the escape button by saying:"Let's agree with our disagreement.". It sounds like she is more or less aiming at pleasing her base, rather than genuinely admitting that some of her thought cannot be justified by scientific evidences and she needed it for emotional comfort. I am losing respect to her, not so much because of her conversion, but rather because she lost her way.

[@qwerty123457891]

No she isn’t. She’s making a horrible and outright bullshit claim that the decline in Christianity created a vacuum that is being filled with wokeism and Islam. Such trash. She’s just parroting bs

[@user-up5du3mf5v]

Illogical. She has no morality to talk about any religion

[@MikBak1814]

Truly remarkable charlatan maybe.

[@frankxu4795]

Truly remarkable my comments criticizing her got removed. I am losing respect to her because she chose the easy way to work out her depression. Now she is the cheerleader of irrational beliefs with the same Jordan Peterson arguments. Whenever pressed on rationale of her belief, she just pressed the escape button by saying:" Let's agree on our disagreement.". The whole thing looks more or less like a politician trying hard to play with words to please her base, rather than a genuine conversation to justify her belief.

[@reeds.9669]

I wonder if Ayaan Hirsi Ali has heard about what happens to houses that are built on a foundation of sand...

[@jfkmuldermedia]

Of course. Hers was.

[@shahidmiah917]

She just equated white western atheist Gaza protesters as being Islamist? I think I know what she’s all about now.

[@briansmith3791]

Yeah, she's only a 'Christian' because new atheism didn't oppose Islam enough for her.

[@annedobson-mack3688]

She says the protesters are unwittingly accepting the framework of Islamism and promoting it (while still being atheists, perhaps wilfully blindly so).

[@TheFirstManticore]

If you think God is a dictator, you think God is pretty much like a powerful human. Which would indeed be nonsense.

[@jamespaul6315]

There is no god

[@Unfamous_Buddha]

This god (like all gods) is a pu**y. If he knows everything & if he sees the future, then that would make his life boring. So "god" needs to forget.

[@DartNoobo]

There is. Omg my argument is as strong as yours​@@jamespaul6315

[@dr_sanhattan]

@@bm1617about what? The invisible man?

[@ShortFuseFighting]

​@@bm1617where is your "peer reviewed studies and lab results" that there's no Zeus? Or Allah? Or Shiva? Or unicorns that fart rainbows?

[@fs5775]

Fantastic moderation of the discussion, wow

[@LoriLev1107]

Ayaan is a very intelligent, brave and gentle soul. This was a fascinating conversation. She so delicately told the truth to Dawkins, "We are partly responsible for this moral crises we now face." But Dawkins can not see it. I mean, that would be admitting to not only being wrong, but also about being responsible for the aftermath. It takes a big person to do that. A big person like Ayaan.❤

[@Sorenthaz]

Dawkins appears to believe that every human should be able to think in the same way he does, which means to essentially cherry pick what he likes about Christianity/other religions and apply that to his worldview without putting any stock in something higher than himself. The reality is that most do not think like he does, and they will fill the void Christianity leaves with whatever can temporarily satiate them emotionally/physically/mentally. Which is what's led to the rise of hedonism and this "mind virus" that is essentially a religious cult that encourages people to chase after their fantasies no matter what they may lead to. This of course leads to the rise of nihilism and creates many more narcissistic individuals who pursue faux morality and virtuousness. He doesn't want to take responsibility because he wants to believe that everyone else is simply not following his own line of thinking to a T. And that it's their fault for not seeing things in the same way he does.

[@thefuckenmanful]

I don’t believe the moral crisis is solely caused by secularism. This seems to be an oversimplification. Humans, by nature, have instincts geared towards survival, and our actions-both moral and immoral-stem from our basic instincts and cultural influences, not just belief systems. Blaming secularism overlooks the fact that morality is a human trait shaped by various factors, including our innate empathy and societal norms. Religion often programs people to be moral based on divine authority, but this doesn’t necessarily reflect genuine morality-rather, it shows adherence to prescribed rules. Some Christians claim they would be immoral without religion, which suggests a dependence on external authority rather than internal moral compass. Human beings naturally care for and protect their loved ones, a trait that isn’t exclusive to religious belief. Attributing moral decline to secularism can serve as a way to validate religious beliefs and imply moral superiority. However, the influence of belief systems, including their powerful effects, speaks more to the power of storytelling and faith rather than the existence of a deity. What we need is a societal focus on teaching ethics, empathy, and compassion from an early age. While Dawkins may lack humility in some contexts, this isn’t a reflection of secularism. Morality and ethics can be understood without invoking God, and blaming atheism or secularism for moral issues ignores the complexities of human nature. We should recognize that our capacity for empathy and moral behavior is inherent, and addressing the moral crisis requires cultural and educational reform.

[@shetlandapache949]

Just curious, what is worse about the morals today than any other point in history? When in all of humanity did we have more moral civilizations than we do now?

[@MilitantAntiAtheism]

@@Sorenthaz pdf file atheist prophet of atheist religion richard Dorkins pick and choose from his own religion, which claims that men can menstruate and give birth. I want to hear him take the whole package, in public, with video cameras and journalists, that he truly believes men can give birth.

[@thearmwrestlingopinion2978]

@@SorenthazI actually agree with this. Dawkins says that it’s patronizing to suggest that people need religion. He seems to think everyone has the same aptitude for reasoning as him. While it’s a nice thought, in reality human nature seeks some kind of structure and order and sense of belonging that gets fulfilled by new ideologies such as wokeism, or leaves opportunity for extremists to swoop in and convert the vulnerable.

[@junevandermark952]

My most ambitious goal came about after believing for 70 years that the universe was created ... to change my system of belief to the scientific theory that in one form or another, the universe and energy always existed ... no creator ... no plan ... and to believe that suffering of all forms of life ... is natural. If people believe they can't be moral unless they have religion in their lives ... that is a sad statement about the mentality of humans in general. It's as though you are saying ... "I can't be moral unless I fear that a god is going to punish me if I'm not moral." I am almost 85 years of age now ... and I believe that if I treat each situation with as much kindness as it deserves ... I can't DO better than my best ... and "let the chips fall where they may."

[@MarttiSuomivuori]

My favorite two human beings on stage. Wow. As an atheist, I have a hard time agreeing with Ayaan but I do see her point. You have to play the game and if it is a game of emotions, your rationality just does not cut it. We are just a little minority with our materialist rational world view. They are huge! Ayaan deserves to be heard. She is a remarkable human being.

[@AutisticVaxtard]

Materialism is Jay and Gooish

[@franmorrison1080]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/pJexeGOvYrRph8U

[@gregzade5202]

Well said & totally agree!

[@sathrielsatanson]

If you cannot beat the Nazis become one? No, she does not deserve to be heard.

[@matthewphilip1977]

She's a remarkable bore. Christ, that first half hour of her preaching was painful. Did she not the memo; it's supposed to be a debate.

[@aidanya1336]

I feel like Ayaan's arguments for why she chooses to believe would work just as well for any other religion. Which is ironic because she is basically believing this to counter one of these other religions.

[@22grena]

You ''feel'? You do not understand Christianity and the hope, love and protection it gives the individual.

[@MikeAhern-199]

@@22grena (You ''feel'? ) or it's my opinion. Don't be picky. Sure, man made fantasies do provide hope, love and protection ... for some but no all.

[@CollyCollz]

@@MikeAhern-199 Yeah similar to that man made fantasy of the universe emerged out of nothing, life came from non-life, love and hope are just chemical reactions in your brain…what a pitiful way to live, what hope, love and protection does atheism provide for the masses because I don’t see any good fruits that come from it

[@aidanya1336]

@@22grena mate its just a humble way of phrasing a critique. Whenever you give feedback its always better to do it in the "I" form instead of a "you" form. But leave it to the Christians to call this out.

[@piotr.ziolo.]

You only addressed one part of what she said - her personal story. But later she said a lot more - that Christianity is a religion of love as no other religion, and that this makes it the best framework for young people to be raised within.

[@xx24xxx]

Loved how those two greeted each other at the start.

[@thomaswashington2127]

This was an awesome conversation between 2 friends. I wish we could get more of these types of debates

[@karenweaver7574]

Freddy thank you for bringing this to it. Very refreshing to listen to an intelligent and passionate conversation. You did a superb job of facilitating this. I do agree that we can be spiritual bankrupt, I lean more to eastern experience to follow myself. Both individuals are tempting me to read their books! love those red chairs

[@paulb3436]

It wouldn't change "everything that we know" it would change everything that HE knew.

[@cmdennison]

sorry....you have an ignorant definition of "know" it it includes subjective personal feelings.

[@sanra167]

lol I love her, but she’s bullsh*itting everyone lol… If you were listening to her podcast in the last 4 years, u know she’s just playing a political game.

[@citizenghosttown]

Agreed. When someone says "I choose to believe" it sounds a lot like "I'm choosing to act as if is true". After all, belief isn't really a choice.

[@sanra167]

@@citizenghosttownright she’s playing chess and everyone is playing checkers. She wants to have more of a cultural influence, and in the long run she’s gonna have a huge influence

[@citizenghosttown]

@@sanra167 Maybe, but I'm not so sure. What made Ayaan Hirsi Ali interesting (and a minor celebrity) was her personal narrative and apostasy from Islam. If she's now just another Christian on the Political Right -- well, those are a dime a dozen. There may also be a simpler reason for her conversion. She has two children now and along with her husband (another atheist who values "cultural" Christianity) she embraces the utility of Christianity in raising them.

[@maureencoralie4884]

Intelligent lady! Pearls from the mouth of a freshly new believer. Praise the Lord May she be blessed abundantly!

[@PazuzuDarkVoid]

😂weird, I see her ‘transformation’ as one losing their mind.

[@AntiAtheismIsUnstoppable]

@@PazuzuDarkVoid Like... when pdf file atheists claim that men can menstruate and give birth while nowhere in history has there been one single case of this being true, it's a blatant lie?

[@roystonmarshall5027]

How can anybody claim Christianity & islam are the same?

[@tomgreene1843]

Not after much consideration .

[@feonor26]

Not the same but similar.

[@wiseonwords]

@@feonor26 - No, on both counts.

[@feonor26]

@@wiseonwords Ehm...yes they are. Christianity is plagiarism of Judaism. Islam is plagiarism of Christianity. They all claim there is only one god. They all have prophets and tenants to observe and they are all wrong.

[@perbondesen9309]

They are basically opposites; Allah is physical, he even created himself out of horses' sweat (making him or other creator creator of horses first). Then again in Islam Allah, the one true god, is not the only creator but the greatest of creators! God of Jews and Christians is spirit and he is love and forgiveness by the grace of God. Revenge belongs to him, not to us. We are asked to forgive because we ourselves are forgiven! Christians believe that Christ died the redemptive death on the cross to make all believers in him righteous before God. Islamic righteousness is self-righteousness protecting your own "honour" and the "honour" of the god Allah and his messenger. Revenge belongs to the Muslim! We could go on and on showing the numerous opposite differences. When you see them and acknowledge them your choice is easy!

[@crispo5074]

Seems a bit of a silly debate Ayaan seems to want Christianity for reasons other than actually believing it. Summary:. Ayaan has had some personal issues and returning to religion has helped her Ayaan is simultaneously worried about Islam and wokeness and thinks we need Christianity to fill the vacuum to avoid people Turing to these two things Richard doesn't believe in any gods, thinks Islam is worse than Christianity, doesn't deny we have an issue with young people and wokeness (although it was never really grasped and defined), but doesn't think any issues and shortcomings we have are a reason to turn to Christianity and he values truth above all else

[@alisterrebelo9013]

No issue with your summary. The only bit I dispute is the characterisation that Dawkins knows what "truth" is.

[@BarrySometimes]

@@alisterrebelo9013 He understands that a truth requires demonstration, & that subjective certainty isn't a demonstration of truth.

[@alisterrebelo9013]

@@BarrySometimes Except Dawkins has never once provided "demonstration" of the type he demand of others, to prove his own presuppositions. For example, formal logic is a necessary presupposition to conduct science. Dawkins has never provided conclusive scientific evidence to prove the existence of logic. All of his worldview is supported by his faith in unproven presuppositions.

[@BarrySometimes]

@@alisterrebelo9013 He doesn't demand the presumptions of others. He simply requires a demonisation that, for instance, a creator deity exists. If you want to play the presupposition game, then nobody is in the position to demonstrate anything. Like Richard's "faith", arithmetic “suffers” the same. Godel demonstrated as much in his incompleteness theorems: that at no point can we prove true statements about natural numbers by recourse to the system itself. Ergo, if you dare ask someone to tell you the number of feet they have, you're guilty of never once providing the "demonstration" of the type you demand of the other. Good luck living in a world wherein you require others to prove the existence of logic in order for rubber to meet the road.

[@BarrySometimes]

@@alisterrebelo9013 (this comment may display twice, it's not showing on my side so I'm reposting) He doesn't demand the presumptions of others. He simply requires a demonisation that, for instance, a creator deity exists. If you want to play the presupposition game, then nobody is in the position to demonstrate anything. Like Richard's "faith", arithmetic “suffers” the same. Godel demonstrated as much in his incompleteness theorems: that at no point can we prove true statements about natural numbers by recourse to the system itself. Ergo, if you dare ask someone to tell you the number of feet they have, you're guilty of never once providing the "demonstration" of the type you demand of the other. Good luck living in a world wherein you require others to prove the existence of logic in order for rubber to meet the road.

[@He.knows.nothing]

I had a bit of the reverse experience as Ayaan in the sense that it was my experiences with Christianity that drove me into a depression (10 years worth) that turned to deconstruction and began to peak with me beginning to lose my hold over my own intrusive and suicidal thoughts. That whole decade was extraordinarily profound for me, my entire worldview was shattered and reconstructed, identities came and went, my demons attacked me and I fell into the void. I was able to reconstruct myself outside of Christianity, but not without first healing the wounds i had been inflicted by it in the first place and when I emerged I looked at others around me, people struggling, friends who themselves went all the way and committed to killing themselves, and I would never wish what I had gone to on anyone. I would never intentionally tear someone's religion apart if that was the thing that kept their sanity alive, or even more intimately it was the essence of the religion that kept them physically and literally alive. For Ayaan to share her experience of Christianity as that which allowed her to conquer her demons that had almost succeeded in dragging her to hell and Dawkins to respond with, "but do you believe the virgin birth literally happened?" Is an absurdity in its own right. Truth might not be relative, but its relevance is relative, and for someone to be entrenched in a relativistic perspective of value and morality to become completely ignorant of that in the heat of the debate is telling. Atheists no longer look up to Dawkins, he was a founder, he was integral to the cultural movement and the acceptance of atheists and the scientific narrative and for that I can respect him, but his views have become dated and his status is now that of a relic, a stepping stone, a shoulder for the rest of us to stand on.

[@PaulDawson-hi5yu]

here's 5 possible steps in your life: 1 rebellion 2 repentance 3 request for God's glory 4 revelation 5.reponse by worship.....Sadly Richard only reached stage 1.

[@JullianRoman]

Thanks Freddy. What a respectful & pleasant discussion between 2 great thinkers with such opposing views.

[@BalkanMode]

Surprise! A depressed person finds her god. Psychiatrists would know how common this phenomenon is.

[@MikeAhern-199]

Correct. The faith that issues from despair.

[@BalkanMode]

@@MikeAhern-199 Jane Fonda is another example of mental illness leading to a god.

[@ianwilkinson99]

To me your dismissiveness sounds rather patronizing. Do you have respect for the conclusions arrived at only by those who have their lives all straightened out and who are not struggling with any issues?

[@BalkanMode]

@@ianwilkinson99 Did you hear what Ayaan Hirsi said? What conclusions? She clearly indicates that she found religion after her therapist recommended praying. You can also check the case of lifelong atheist Jane Fonda who also found a god. Depression, mental illness, or older age leading to religion is nothing new. It’s a well known pattern. I can even suggest a certain look in the eyes of such people.

[@mntomovi]

​@BalkanMode Jonathon pageau has a video called the spiritual importance of disappointment. You might like It

[@sarahhale-pearson533]

Choosing to believe. Wow. Self gaslighting is not something to be respected as a virtue. Even if it is a helpful placebo for today’s horrific reality. Sorry Ayan.

[@TjloveBaba]

"Any faith with the idea of Truth behind it is better than no faith at all. It is better to walk the wrong road and return to the right way than not to walk at all. What matters spiritually is faith. When faith becomes love, there is no need for faith any longer." Meher Baba

[@Valjean666dk]

Sad to see Ayaan turn into a nonsense woowoo talker. You can't choose to believe. And just because Islam is bad, doesn't mean that Christianity is true. That Christianity may be the lesser evil, and used as a bulwark against Islam, is a different argument.

[@twntwrs]

But just as flawed an argument: more bulshit as a bulwark against bulshit is more bulshit.

[@penfro]

It’s a safety in numbers issue. Didn’t she refer to the numbers strength of Christianity in her book, Infidel; or was that in her book, The Caged Virgin? I like the hymns and the choirs in Christianity. And men and women sitting together, rather than the women clumped together in the back out of sight. I’ve never attended a mosque service, but what is there to like? If the Quran is read out, it’s in Arabic which none of the audience understands. Maybe a good thing, as the Quran is an excruciating read.

[@NjorogeThuo]

Atheism offers no solution either... Again your claim doesn't make Christianity untrue...

[@fulgentius371]

Not that she says that - fallacy.

[@chr_my]

Love and respect Ayaan, please stay safe, please stay strong.

[@Carphoporus]

You can either die with a smile on your face or die with hallow knowing that you were right. Which offers us more of what we need?

[@bigdave1579]

Many prayers for Ayana that she will continue to grow in the knowledge and wisdom of our Lord Jesus Christ through His death on the cross for our sins, was buried, and bodily rose from the dead on the third day.

[@TheFirstManticore]

If you study the matter thoroughly, you do come to the point of knowing that you can neither prove nor disprove Christianity. Not in the most rigorous sense. So, we do, at that level, make a choice regarding what to believe.

[@alisterrebelo9013]

Why does scientific evidence = rigor? "Rigor" would imply thoroughly examining all evidences. The scientific method excludes certain evidences because it has no means of evaluating them. I would argue the scientific method is one of the worst methods of examining reality when used alone. A person who employs the scientific method alone, neither examines the inherent presuppositions nor provides scientific evidence for those presuppositions.

[@BarrySometimes]

We can disprove that the bible isn't the product of either omniscience &/or omnibenevolence, likewise the earth wasn't created in 6 days & so forth.

[@ZubairHamed]

You can neither prove nor disprove the iliads, rig vedas, book of the dead...heck you can neither prove or disprove harry potter either.

[@404Limit]

creator: a person of (THING) that brings something into existence (nothing about intent) Dawkins cannot name a thing without a creator. God and Gods are created by men they have a creator. Energy depends on the form of it, Thermal energy heat is the creator, Kinetic energy motion is the creator. Nuclear Energy fusion or fission, Even the energy you need to live has a creator, plants and animals. Virtual Particles are created from the presence of other particles, often of other fields. Gravity has a creator mass. So I just debunked all of the things said by most untruthful atheist. I am a truthful one, I do not believe in God or Gods but there is 100% creators, even this text you read has one. What is next a book? author, sand? eroding rocks create those Even your big bang has at least one creator if you believe that b.s. yet it ignores Newtons 3rd law and you think the illusion of red shift is space expanding, watch 3 barrels go over a water and put yourself into the 2nd barrels point of view. The first barrel is moving faster to gravity, the 3rd barrel behind you going over the waterfall later seems to be moving away from you but in reality you are going faster than it, the waterfall is not expanding, space is not expanding, the distance between objects is simply increasing, yet you have observations of red shift. So you can believe in spooky dark matter and dark energy for speeding us up or you can believe in gravity. Just like earth has a north and south hemisphere the universe does and core(object with most mass) is pulling everything towards it faster and faster making it seem like space is expanding. Where is the centre of gravity on earth? the earth, the sun? the sun, the universe? THE UNIVERSE. We are on a one way trip to spaghettification, Although when we collide we will see Newtons 3rd law in action and we will expand very far out again before falling again. The perfect perpetual motion awareness building machine we are in. Go look at the weather the past 500,000 you will notice a pattern every 100,000 years and that is because sometimes some galaxies shield us from cores gamma rays and somethings they do not as we go down this drain. You said it would it would be extravagant to have a creator below the universe, no Mr. Dawkins we are inside of the creator. You can go ahead and say all those things always existed but you are a liar, read the book I am about to write and let me know what it says, to bad you can't because I yet to write it, it does not exist yet. Tell me what colour will my first childs eyes be if they already exist? you can't because they don't exist yet. Go ahead say those things are formed form: bring together parts or combine to (CREATE) something. If something creates something it is a CREATOR. Fact is the axiom of creator creation relationships out numbers the axiom of numbers, because even every number is created. There is more proof of things with creators, than 1 = 1. Yes it is a natural process, a natural process of creation. You should probably start thinking of where you came from before this life and where you are going after. Otherwise you are wasting it. If you think you die and that is it, nothingness, oblivion, total ignorance, you may as well of stayed there to begin with you redundant Richard. Why even bother obtaining any awareness to begin with. Could of saved yourself a bunch of time bud. YOU WILL REMEMBER EVERYTHING IT IS SAVED INTO THE TIMECHAIN, EVERY THOUGHT AND EVERY ACTION IS TIME STAMPED IN TIME FOR EVERYONE TO SEE AND YOUR MEMORIES PROVE THE TIME CHAIN EXIST. Right now I have trillion of observations of things with creators and 0 things that do not have a creator and I yet to meet anyone who can name and show with proof a thing without one. You go ahead and bet on a black a thing without a creator, but I know the roullete machine is broken and it has only been red the last trillion times I seen it, so I am going to bet on red, this reality having a creator. whether it be aware or not. When a volcano creates land, is it a god? no, does it know its create land? no, is it a creator YES. Learn the difference between creator and god and you might start to resolve why you are here. How does it feel to get schooled by a high school drop out, that is half your age, dumb farm boy here, just debunked your entire view on life and space, haha bud, it is so in your face you are blind to see it. You don't have much time left Richard, When the creator ask you (although it already knows) what you created here, what will you tell it? I can say billions of crops and food for others, 1000's of homes, what are you going to say? I took that guys creations and turned them into poop and flushed it because your only creations smell? Get right old man, I know blind people who can see more than you.

[@inyerspace4982]

dropped the truth bomb right here.

[@csgoace]

WOW

[@circumsizionisbabyrape3665]

He is right you know.

[@JohnSmith-fn5en]

Wow I never thought about it like that.

[@PlexLuthr]

You know you just destroyed every atheist right?

[@trupalcanada]

Can someone please timestamp when the debate begins.

[@j.j.l.]

Fabulous!

[@lindawilcox4279]

Fantastic to see a good old debate with 2 sensible people

[@gaborcsillag6013]

There is not much point to this debate, if at all it can be called a "debate". Ayaan Hirsi Ali is merely talking about her subjective personal experience. While Dawkins is talking about rational, scientific, verifiable truth. If someone has the personal experience of feeling that they see ghosts: OK - I can accept that. But it has nothing to due with what rational thinkers see as "truth".

[@MartinAbdesselem]

True. Ayaan commited a big deal of logical fallacies and cognitive biases but Dawkins didn't really interrupt her maybe for their friendship. Ayaan is trying to make a rule out of a personal experience. I wouldnt call it a debate but a conversation. Yet Dawkins didnt adress a lot of points that should be addressed.

[@shetlandapache949]

Yeah, I think the premise of the debate was a bit too vague here. If this is a debate on whether Christianity can help people, her points were valid. If this is a discussion of scientific validity, there was no argument from Ayaan.

[@annedobson-mack3688]

I understand Hirsi-Ali to be saying there is a second plane of reality/meaning/existence, in addition to the one Dawkins believes is the one and only plane.

[@elleyonaspg9580]

She took a convoluted high road from one confused belief system to another. There simply could be an easier way. Believe in your self, believe in your spirit that comes with you, spirit is not wrapped up in religion.

[@MiguelQuienComoEl]

Isn’t that rational to think the world exist with no purpose. Fake intellectualism with a scientific costume. Science can’t explain the meaning of life and the afterlife beyond a theory that is actually faith. Foolish people saying there is no God, thinking they have a kind of powerful opinion.

[@BradSayers]

respectful and RELEVANT conversation all around!

[@Leti21]

Ayaan looks peacefull and so calm now.God Bless you Ayaan ❤

[@unknownpng650]

So, Ayaan Hirsi Ali spent years debunking and insulting Christianity, but she didn't even read the Old Testament? This shows her ignorance. When Richard Dawkins compared the Quran and the Bible, she responded mockingly, saying there is no comparison between the two. She then added that she still needs to read the Old Testament, which is in fact PART of the Christian Bible and is divinely inspired as well. She doesn't even know the basics of the religion also whatever Ayaan finds immoral or condemnable in the Quran, she will find the exact same thing in the Old Testament. Would she talk about Judaism the same way she talks about Islam, or would that hurt her finances? Would she condemn the Orthodox Jews who live in the UK and have their own religious courts that apply misogynistic and illiberal laws? Would she condemn the supremacist Orthodox Jews who live in Jerusalem who believe that the goyim are here to serve them ?

[@trulyrandom]

She's lost all credibility.

[@davegold]

I'm sure that you would debunk all the relgions in the world apart from your own without reading every single religious book. I'm guessing most American Christians haven't even read the bible either, just selected passages and teachings.

[@tomasrocha6139]

The bible is much more violent than the Quran

[@henkbalje6874]

She is one of the bravest people I have ever seen. At every step in her life she has stayed true to what she believed despite overwhelming opposition.

[@montyhassan6798]

It's Diffult not to laugh and piss myself. I'm embarrassed for both of them.

[@user-op2oi1pj2o]

Dear lady (sister), we thank God the Holy Sprit for helping you like He did help all Christians. Most born again saved people experience a desperate moment to bring us down enough to be hambled enough to hear/sense the truth, the way and the life eternal.

[@FerealemSorensen-lb7oq]

One thing I know for sure, Ayaan is trying to switch off her inquisitive critical mind to overcome her depression. However, once the infatuation is fade, eventually she will figure out the true spirituality.

[@rosemaryalles6043]

What, in your opinion is "true" spirituality?

[@jawadashur6953]

🦄 ​@@rosemaryalles6043

[@citizenghosttown]

I admire Ayaan Hirsi Ali and I'm very glad that her conversion to Christianity has brought her happiness and peace. But some of what she says here makes no sense at all. For example ---- she says that just as we celebrate the separation between Church & State, we should also have a separation between what is scientific and what is spiritual or immaterial. Huh? The reason we have a "separation" between church and state is to protect individual rights and freedom of conscience. What does that have to do with "separating" science and "spirit" -- a conversation that is not about rights, but about the methods we use for understanding reality. It doesn't make an ounce of sense

[@niqlemon]

She means you can be spiritual and do science without conflict

[@mikeman3770]

I think John Lennox is someone you should listen to as he deals with this very issue. Science is a system used to answer questions about the material world. Faith and religion deal with the supernatural. Trying to use science to prove or disprove faith is to try and use it for something it is not designed for. Think about this (adapted from John Lennox), if I bake a cake and place it on a table. Science can answer questions about the molecular nature of the cake, the color, the shape, the taste. But science cannot answer the simple question: why did I bake the cake? The only way to get that answer is to ask the cake maker, ask me. It is the same with trying to use science to answer the purpose of the universe, any attempt at an answer will be completely false.

[@citizenghosttown]

@@mikeman3770 Thanks for that. But even Richard Dawkins would not dispute the fact that science can't answer all questions. But what's the basis for concluding that there even IS a super natural dimension? In any event, many religious claims ARE claims about the material world. Claiming that a man can be resurrected from the dead, or that the Universe was created Ex Nihlo, or that biological evolution is directed by "intelligence" --- these are claims about the natural world and certainly within the purview of science. Also, in your example of the cake, I'm not sure that's a good analogy. We know the cake was baked by an individual and we could therefore inquire as to his/her "purpose" for baking the cake. (Assuming the baker can know her own motives). On the other hand, we have no reason for assuming the Universe HAS a purpose.

[@user-ld9ir9xf2c]

Ayaan is quite reflective and very articulate the way she speaks. Her story reminds me of Saul’s conversation to Christianity after persecuting Christians. He became Paul and was the greatest propagator of Christianity and Christian values. Keep it up Ayaan. As a 1st generation migrant to the west like myself she knows what the west has built but are taking it for granted

[@julieredmond5192]

Please do more of these talks between Dawkins and Ali!

[@xaviervelascosuarez]

It will never cease to astonish me how very intelligent people (much more intelligent than I am) can in the stretch of a single sentence utter a blatant contradiction that I can see as clear as water whereas they seem totally unable to even suspect it's there.

[@Chew81]

And the answer to your wonderment continues to elude you? Perhaps your self appraisal is well founded. We are human. We are not automatons. Bar the human brain that has impairment to its emotional capacity, we are never purely or wholly rational. If we were truly a rational species, there is no need for indoctrination, propaganda, cajoling, national campaigns, civil activism, and the like. There is no need for advertising. Why would grownups not listen to reason, you may wonder? We don't make decisions purely by reason. There are many variables, known and unknown to us, that influence us when we make decisions. There is cognitive bias. There is motivated reasoning. So many. Do you assume that atheists are more rational than theists? It is face-palming to witness people who claim to not believe in God because of the lack of evidence but go on to get hoodwinked by pseudoscience and new age rubbish. It is very common in the UK.

[@MaryAlafouzo]

0uu88888hgg😊

[@MaryAlafouzo]

0:24

[@TheSpoovy]

Example?

[@xaviervelascosuarez]

@TheSpoovy When somebody says that religion is nonsense, they are really saying, as Ayan pithily emphasizes, that "there's nothing." That we come from nothing, that the entire universe comes from nothing and, therefore, there's nothing in store for us. That alone is a monumental nonsense. If you add to that that the basis for your conviction is science, you are implying that *nothing can be true unless scientifically proven.* Of course, this statement cannot be true either-unless it's scientifically proven. Henceforth, a long chain of contradictions ensues, one more bizarre than the previous.

[@richardrosenbluth7544]

No rational person can be an atheist, for an atheist is one who “knows” there is no God. Reason dictates that at most one can be agnostic since the certainty of the absence of God is no more reasonable than the certainty of God’s existence.

[@jerryholtvluwer7615]

Nope. Atheïsts do not claim to know there is no God. Nobody can know that

[@jerryholtvluwer7615]

@@bm1617 he doesnt need evidence. He just rejects all the so called ‘proof’ from theïsts, and rightly so. The burden of proof is with theists, not the other way around

[@hermaeusmora424]

Atheism is the lack of a belief in god, not the belief that god does not exist. Agnosticism is about lack of knowledge.

[@briansmith3791]

@@hermaeusmora424 Dawkins agreed 'he does not WANT there to be a Mind behind it all'. He "prefers" that the universe be based on the Darwinian Principle. ( 'Unbelievable' talk with Francis Collins).

[@hermaeusmora424]

@@briansmith3791 okay.... and?

[@fp3728]

Reading a good novel is entertaining! It might have certain lessons in life but it doesn't mean we can take it literally.

[@umourbe66]

Dawkin isn’t able to comprehend the concept of unconditional pure love who can puts own life to save others

[@lagarza2973]

The Lady and her husband make their living by talking, talking and talking. She has choosen a topic that resonates with lots and people and its controversial.... She is not convincing to me at all. Weak arguments

[@gregorytaylor9104]

Her husband has worked to open the Uni of Austen, Texas.

[@jerryholtvluwer7615]

Yes, ‘weak’ was the word i thought of during the whole conversation.

[@alisterrebelo9013]

A person who's definition of evidence is defined in a materialist, scientific sense, will view anything outside that definition as "weak".

[@SALS-rf9yy]

And what have achieved in life ? You sound like bitter jealous human . Her “talk “has empowered millions and what have you done to compare ?

[@rn67301]

What a great testimony by Ayaan Hirsi Ali. Well spoken and humble. Be blessed!

[@bozman247]

God bless Ayaan Hirsi and her defense of Christianity - prayers for Dawkins that God softens his heart

[@JullianRoman]

Freddy, I wish you invited Bishop Barron to converse with Dawkins. 2 well respected evangelists on their own right

[@livd4990]

Agree! If not Bishop Barron himself, then someone who is able to truly understand and defend Christianity objectively, and not just “choosing to believe” important christian and catholic beliefs like the resurrection. She made it sound like she has “chosen to believe” despite logic and scientific thinking. 😢

[@alisterrebelo9013]

​@@livd4990 No Bishop Barron is a "colourful" thinker like Jordan Peterson. Colourful thinkers cannot convince Dawkins. Dawkins needs "logical" believers such as InspiringPhilosophy, Stephen Meyer in combo with a strong apologist like Jimmy Akin. Between the three of them, they cover all the areas of the Christian belief that Dawkins challenges on.

[@Joda8382]

Personal stories vs logic, evidence

[@alisterrebelo9013]

Glad you mentioned logic. What is the scientific evidence that conclusively proves a) logic exists and b) logic is true?

[@NEELZE99]

​@@alisterrebelo9013common sense. But y'all just ranting about definitions.

[@alisterrebelo9013]

@@NEELZE99 Define common sense. You just assume I'm going to agree with you. Well your athiest common sense and my Christian common sense are not the same thing. So explain to me, how can the average person arrive to your definition of common sense? Aren't athiests supposed to be more logical than Christians? So why are you struggling to define basic words?

[@mjmedia7151]

Abraham of Bible is not same as that of quran have different fathers , any way I thank God for Ayaan's salvation may the Holy spirit of God teach you more and Mr Richard to recover damages he has done to society and turn to christ Jesus

[@fanush228]

She used to be deeply religious like me. That's why, she likes to be religious as that is her comfort zone. Because she grew up like this. That is her environment and she belongs there. Like immigrant becomes more religious because of living lonely in EU. And the immigrant goes back again in comfort zone mean in religion. That is personal comfort zone. 😊

[@roselen7819]

Wow what a woman with such brilliance and humility!! Great debate!

[@MikBak1814]

“Christianity is about love”…for 1.5B Muslims as well?

[@keithhunt5328]

There is no hate like Christian love.

[@jozsefnemeth935]

​@@keithhunt5328allahu akhbar! Relax, I was just kidding

[@alisterrebelo9013]

Yes Jesus came for everyone including the Muslims. Have you ever stopped to consider why: - Mariam (Mary), the mother of Isa (Jesus) is the ONLY named woman in the Quran (literal speech of Allah) - Mariam is the only sinless woman in the Quran (Quran 3:42) - Isa (Jesus) is the only sinless man in the Quran (Quran 19:19) - Isa creates life in the way Allah created life by breathing into it (Quran 5:110) - The followers of Isa will be made superior to the unbelievers (Quran 3:55) - Muhammed's father is in hell (Sahih Muslim 203, Book 1, #408) - Muhammed' mother is in hell (Sahih Muslim 976a, Book 11, #134 and Quran 9:113) - Muhammed sins 70 times per day (Sahih Jami` at-Tirmidhi Book 47, Hadith 311)

[@Ramo101-kr4ig]

Btw this a bare faced slander and lie to say that if someone leaves Islam they are meant to be killed. 1. This is not in the Quran at all, 2. In the Islamic traditional culture capital punishment is only for the one who leave the religion and then starts to openly fight and oppose the religion within the context of a Muslim country is that carried out by the authorities. But just to leave Islam without openly fighting and opposing it then not at all that is an absolute lie used just to demonize something they both hate and to fool people who don’t do their own research

[@whitneystreethouse]

Dawson conflates reason with truth. Logic is one of many tools humans may employ to ascertain aspects of truth. Hirsi aquired a tool Dawkins lacks. This was a fascinating debate!

[@jonathanhenderson9422]

I don't see why Dawkins's and Ali's perspectives aren't compatible. We keep our scientific/rationality perspective when it comes to addressing factual matters about the world, and we can take the moral/spiritual (call it what-you-will) wisdom from religions and other fictions. The major mistake religions made was their attempt at trying to make people believe their irrational, unscientific claims about reality were literally true as opposed to mythological, symbolic and allegorical. There's a lot of allegorical/symbolic interest in the mythology of Genesis, but anyone who takes it as literally true is a fool. What people need to learn is that just because there's a great deal that's outdated in religions that doesn't mean there isn't also a great deal of value and worth. The problem is that most people aren't intelligent and want to simplify everything to "durrr, either it's literally true and I have to accept it all or it's literally false and I have to reject it all." Once you get past that it's clear the only sensible thing to do is to separate the wheat from the chaff. Ali and Dawkins are essentially the same; both are cultural Christians, it's merely that Ali wants to embrace more of the "Christian" side and Dawkins wants to embrace more of the "culture" side. It's not day and night, and it's day and later that day.

[@frankxu4795]

Yet, by endorsing Christianity, a lot of the ignorant parts unfortunately piggyback with the good part and Ali is unable to filter those by promoting the whole package.

[@twntwrs]

What is there of "value and worth" in religion that cannot be gained from reason and the scientific method?

[@jonathanhenderson9422]

@@frankxu4795 The "ignorant parts" can only "piggyback with the good parts" if people let them. That's what the "separating the wheat from the chaff" part of my post addressed. Is Ali "promoting the whole package?" I've yet to hear her comment on, say, any of the laws of the OT.

[@jonathanhenderson9422]

​@@twntwrs First, science and reason have nothing to say about morality. Science can tell you how things are, not how they should be; reason can only insure that your moral systems are consistent, not that they're good. Second, science and reason don't create stories that mimic the patterns and resonate with the experiences of people's lives. People do not live by fact and reason alone, they live by values and metaphors and emotions/feelings and, yes, fictions; "manifold illusions" as Yeats called them, and we can't live without them. Without them all is nihilism.

[@lm58142]

@@jonathanhenderson9422 Take away all the reasons why something may be good and you would be left with something that may well be pure evil and you won't know it.

[@varghj2006]

Amazing grace how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like me. I was once lost but now I'm found... Was blind but now I see♥️

[@noesis.8051]

This debate PERFECTLY encapsulates where the discussion of modern Morality is at this point in time. This was soooooooooooo beautiful to watch, if I thought the discussion between Jordan peterson and Alex o'ocnor was brilliant, then this conversation is what that conversation aims to be like.

[@noahruel1724]

Anyone know what Ayaan Hirsi Ali is referring to with Chapel Hill North Carolina?

[@Nicole-kk6bx]

The last statement from Dawkins was worth the whole feed but could not have been reached without the whole discussion. So funny, and provoking if you’re still open to having that kind of mind exercise. What is created by man, what works, tradeoffs, planted seeds… and Ayaan is just one of my favorite people to hear conceptualize our emerging challenges we must face sooner or later. Great video!

[@rkrishad]

The message of the Upanishad is what will save us. The intuition of the Upanishad is that fundamental reality is existence , conscious bliss . Sat chit Ananda. This is where we need leadership from India to speak about “ the whole world is one family” and is based on Upanishad.

[@kulsoomisaacs4230]

Ayaan stop using ISLAM to validate your answers.

[@FraserBailey-jm5yz]

Quite plainly, Dawkins has not read Tom Holland's book 'Dominion'. And the way in which he equates Christianity, Judaism and Islam is just absurd. I say this as someone who is not, in any way, a practicing Christian.

[@Allothersweretakenn]

It’s all the same shit

[@keithhunt5328]

He never equated them. He said islam is more evil than the other two. He's said he's a cultural christian many times.

[@AutisticVaxtard]

Atheist are smug midwits

[@AutisticVaxtard]

Atheist worship the vaccine 🙄

[@larschristianalm]

Why should he read Dominion? What Dawkins is saying is that those three religions are related and abrahamic, not that they are exactly the same. Ayaan's point about all religions not being the same is moot, and a strawman. No one is saying that all religions are the same. They are both similar and dissimilar in several ways. They have many things in common, and some differences.

[@Signebperry]

Did she say that the history of western civiliation is mainly Christian!? Does she think, that before we started counting, Europeans was just cave men? I wonder where words like science, democracy and psychology come from.

[@yidiandianpang]

She means the spiritual philosophy which underlies the development of western civilization. Of course science is part of it but that is not the religion/philosophy.

[@Signebperry]

@yidiandianpang how condescending to suggest that a proposed intellectual like Hirsi Ali does not know "history" from "spiritual philosophy". And also, this tell me that you haven't bothered to research Christian philosophy outside of theology, because then you'd discover that most of it is based on stoicism which is *tadaah* a roman philosophy, which not only was very popular in the early days of the roman empire and became increasingly popular with Marcus Aurelius, but it also has deep roots in *tadaah* the Greek antiquity tradition of thought. The fundament of Christian philosophy is heathen. If not, it would probably never have caught on amongst Romans in the years of Constantine. And the claim that Christian philosophy underlines the development of Western civilization, is just flat out wrong. It has had a great and devastating influence on a Western civilization, which we have tried to come to terms with several times, first during the renaissance (which got It's name from the rebirth of antiquity) and later in the Age of Enlightenment. Both periods were influenced by the rediscovering of ancient Greek and roman philosophy, and modern science, reason, politics, and scepticism have developed IN SPITE of christianities' attempts to undermine these things. We would have been so much more advanced by now if the Romans had not seen a potential political benefit in Christianity in the 300s AD.

[@paulwally9007]

@@Signebperry And may Constantine be tortured in hell for all eternity.

[@johnbishop2611]

Ezekiel 36:24-32 [24]For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. [25]Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. [26]A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. [27]And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. [28]And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God. [29]I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you. [30]And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen. [31]Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations. [32]Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.

[@jmikhael1886]

God words are more powerful than Richard words. Because they are the truth of the eternal life.

[@TheoSkeptomai]

Have you heard this 'God' speaking?

[@helencheung2537]

"I'm not a Christian and you're not a Christian." "I don't believe a word of the Bible and neither do you." Typical Dawkins arrogance.

[@musicproductioncentral4540]

He's right on the money.

[@CitizensCommunity]

The teachings of Jesus primarily emphasize two core principles: worshipping God and practicing the golden rule of treating others as oneself would wish to be treated, such as his examples of kindness and charity. Following Jesus' teachings requires adhering to the commands about honouring the higher power, as this is a directive from that power itself and affirmed by jesus. Reducing his teachings to only being about kindness is to overlook half of his message. Christians fail to abide by these teachings and either ignore the rest or lack any kind of consensus among them regarding the specifics of these rules.

[@FraserBailey-jm5yz]

Ayan Hirsi Ali gets iit. She is one of the very few people in public life to understand the Islamic threat. Ultimately, it will destroy us all.

[@cavaleirosemlicenca3894]

As a Christian, I don't care if this is our end.

[@twntwrs]

If she thinks more religion (irrationality) is the cure then she doesn't understand the threat.

[@gnupf]

I'm firmly with the late Colin Wilson. What is destroying the western world is defeatism.

[@AutisticVaxtard]

She needs to trust Dr Fauci and the architects of the NWO or she is just being silly

[@JH-ji6cj]

​@@twntwrsBINGO!

[@wisedyes]

There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God- 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people. 2 Timothy 3

[@chris-acf9031]

You are not your body. You live in your body. We as Christians may not know ALL Things but ONE THING IS SURE... God exist and we are His children 🎉❤

[@truthseeker4625]

Some lessons from Quran Don't lie (22:30) Dont spy (49:12) Don't insult (49:11) Don't waste (17:26) Feed the poor (22:36) Don't backbite (49:12 Keep your oaths (5:89) Don't take bribes (27:36) Honour your treaties (9:4) Restrain your anger (3:134) Don't spread gossip (24:15) Think good of others (24:12) Be good to guests (51:24-27) Don't harm believers (33:58) Don't be rude to parents (17:23) Turn away from ill speech (23:3) Don't make fun of others (49:11) Walk in a humble manner (25:63) Respond to evil with good (41:34) Keep your trusts & promises (23:8) Don't insult others' false gods (6:108) Don't ask unnecessary questions (5:101) Don't call others with bad names (49:11) Don't claim yourselves to be pure (53:32) Speak nicely, even to the ignorant (25:63) Don't ask for repayment for favours (76:9) If enemy wants peace, ther accept it (8:61) Return a greeting in a better manner (4:86) Don't remind others of your favours (2:264) Make peace between fighting groups (49:9) Lower your voice and talk moderately (31:19) Don't ask too many favours from people (2:273) Speak gently, even to leaders of disbelief (20:44) Don't criticize small contributions of others (9:79) Try to make peace between husband & wife (4:128) Oppression/corruption is worse than killing (2:217) Preach to others in a good and wise manner (16:125) Don't accuse others of immorality without proof (24:4) Don't call someone disbeliever without knowing (4.94) Know your enemies can become your close friends (41:34) Don't wrongly consume the wealth of the vulnerable (4:29) Forgive others, as you woulc like Allah to forgive you (24:22) If unable to help a needy person, at least speak nice words (17:28) Verify information from a dubious source before acting upon it (49:6) Those who can should continue to spend on those less fortunate (24:22) Don't sit with those who mock religion until they change the subject (4:140) The worldly life is nothing but an illusionary enjoyment (3:185)

[@sahh9464]

Everything sensible in Islam was taken from Judaism and Christianity. That is an historical fact. And these bits of coopted wisdom do not compensate for the violence, fear and contradictions inherent in Islam.

[@holycat8312]

What about homosexuals?

[@briancox9357]

How about : don't try to kill someone because of a book they wrote?

[@briancox9357]

Garbage

[@maximosleo]

Oh is it... Please go and debate ChristianPrince live on youtube... He is spanking allah and his prop mohamad live on youtube using and showing their own Koran and Hadiths... It's actually fun to watch.

[@obad.iah.]

Glory to Jesus Christ, the King Eternal ! Peace and blessings to everyone watching this, I love you and God loves you