Why I Left Legalism

[@revolutionofordinaries]

What we often fail to realize is that we aren't just passive participants in our faith journey. We choose to engage and involve ourselves in various ways. It has taken a while for me to see why legalism appealed to me at a young age. Ii would love to hear your story and/or questions in the comments!

[@romulinprince]

To be very brief Matt, I transitioned from predominantly black churches of Christ fellowships to predominantly white churches of Christ fellowships. My family, led by my mother's faith in Christ teachings and wanting to learn more truth instilled into my upbringing and legalism experiences in my early years. After falling away, then humbly, thankfully returning to the Lord's church my journey because of his grace has allowed me to have the scales removed from my eyes to see clearly my shortcomings as well as the flaws in both the black and white churches. Traditions and gimmicks that replaced true development in holiness and the lack of saying the stuff that really needs to be said has brought me to the place I'm residing in Spiritually at this time in my life. For the days ahead that's left for me, I refuse to never be totally honest and truthful with everyone with discretion depending upon the circle people are in as we orbit each other on earth. I will always hope that any brother or sister in the kingdom of God won't be left out in the eternal realm. I hope to live forever too. Stay blessed and diligent Matt! Shalom!

[@revolutionofordinaries]

Keep at it brother...I am better for knowing you!

[@Kelle0284]

Legalism is a good system. It doesn't necessarily contradict Christianity.

[@jordyE..]

@@revolutionofordinarieshey, I am new to your channel and I noticed you are church of Christ, and I was wondering do you believe baptism is necessary for salvation? And if not are there others in your church who do? Thanks

[@revolutionofordinaries]

@@jordyE.. Here you go! kzbin.info/www/bejne/l5Lbf2qwopJkpac&pp=ygUqcmV2b2x1dGlvbiBvZiBvcmRpbmFyaWVzIGJhcHRpc20gZXNzZW50aWFs

[@jasonkehl8972]

It seems that your journey out of legalism and into a Spirit led and more mature life of following Jesus has resonated with many others Matt; you can add me to the list. I liked the rigidity of legalism and wholeheartedly embraced it. Once I began to understand and embrace the biblical storyline of restored new heavens and new earth on which our resurrected bodies would live I found that I was rejected totally by the congregation I had been part of for 20 years. In and around the same time I was seeing an absence of the fruit of the Spirit in myself and those I fellowshipped with. I was a bit fearful to pull away from legalism and embark on a more Spirit led life, but it has proved to be so much better. There's challenges for sure, including trying to discern what is the Spirit's leading and what's my own desire, but I have no intention of going back to legalism. I wish I had come out of it earlier, I think that my dogmatic legalism was a significant contributing factor to my children rejecting Jesus entirely.

[@revolutionofordinaries]

What a story! A beautiful God story! I can totally relate.

[@kathypauley8649]

This is very close to my story, and you articulate it so very well. Thank you especially for emphasizing how the deep commitment to scripture actually propels us (or ought to) to a broader foundation of God's plan. I grieve that I was so much older - in my 50's - when I began that move, but, like Paul, I am "forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead."

[@revolutionofordinaries]

Hello Kathy! Thank you for sharing all of that! This video is a bit older than one I did a few months ago...this one will really hit home on what the journey actually looks like in 5 stages. God bless you! kzbin.info/www/bejne/hX6XeoaEqa9pptk

[@dagwould]

My recollection of CoC was a haphazard and diminutive approach to teaching. I found that the average Episcopal kid knew far more of the Bible and how it was put together than I did. In fact, the CoC in the 60s was hot on 'preaching' that is proclaiming the gospel to non-believers. But not like the apostles. It was always in the church meeting and to usually only Christians. No training on how to convey the gospel to non-believers ( except by The Rant) and no apologetics. It always ended with the 'invitation', wherein the last verse of the 'invitation hymn' was sung interminably because the preacher 'knew' there was someone to whom the Spirit was speaking. Of course the Spirit wasn't and hadn't. So we quit the hymn after the 5th time through the final verse. It wasn't until I encountered some Episcopalians did I have the wonderful world of theology and biblical studies opened to me. And they were people who could relate their faith to the world we are in and connect it to the long history of Christian practice.

[@robdavis1248]

I can't tell you how your videos have helped me in my journey in the last year. almost daily I will watch something you have done and it speaks to me and where I am at in my Walk. Thank you for the great content.

[@revolutionofordinaries]

Thank you for sharing that Rob! I am so thankful to have been a small part. Praying you continue to grow in the Lord. If I can ever help please let me know.

[@christrescuedme2182]

Thank you for sharing. You made a good point concerning the CoC's tendency to make "some things large things and to make large things small things." To be biblically honest, our “dogmatic” doctrines were like shifting sand…always changing. Because one can in no way, shape or form be consistently dogmatic about peripheral, non-essential things that are disputable and questionable! The irony was that the most crucial aspect of salvation, which is saving faith (in the true Christ of Scripture) being a gift from God apart from any human effort, was replaced with disputable things that dishonored the name of Christ, and eclipsed the biblical view of the gospel. No wonder Romans 14 strongly warns against making disputable things essential to salvation! In Jesus Christ there are no “doubtful disputations.”

[@uklie01]

I don't know if I understand this correctly but to me, legalism is the need to do everything "correctly". No mistakes allowed - if one doesn't get it right, there's no grace to cover mistakes.

[@revolutionofordinaries]

We all think we should do all the right things...the difference is what you think the result of your perfect obedience results in.

[@michaelferguson167]

When it comes to salvation, where are you placing your trust? Are you placing it in your faithfulness in some religious actions you perform and up to some particular standard- that would be legalistic. But if you are placing your confidence and hope in the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross that that is the bedrock of salvation. No one can earn salvation by anything they do, what matters is our trust in what Jesus has done! Every person, Christians included still fails God on occasion. Confess those things, thank God for His forgiveness (which is a spiritual blessing all Christians possess) and get back up. Grace is NEVER exhausted for the true believer who places their confidence in Him. (IN WHAT HE HAS DONE)

[@birds_and_sparrows]

Thanks for sharing this! I didn’t grow up with this belief so it helps me empathize more with those who do. I desire to aid those who come out of legalism or the institutional church in general. I pray for the whole church to be rooted in grace and faith. An interesting note, even if the legalism wasn’t explicitly preached, having that modeled for people means that it was taught. Just a thought i had there. Teaching isnt just the words we speak but the words and actions lived out.

[@freetruth80]

The bible is not God's Word. We believers live by the Spirit not the letters. Jesus is the Word and he lives IN us. We are already as close to him as we can ever be.

[@IllusionOfTodd]

You've made me reflect on my reaction to my childhood church. God has been healing my view of that situation and this open and honest reflection has helped me along that path as well. Thank you.

[@revolutionofordinaries]

I love hearing that Todd. We have to find some way of reconciling our past to move forward. I would love to hear more if you ever feel like sharing. No pressure!

[@IllusionOfTodd]

@@revolutionofordinaries how can I send you my email address?

[@dave-scspressnell5802]

I have been going through this journey for the past year. There is so much we do and are not doing that the Bible teaches. This video really speaks to me. The hard thing is bringing this up in a Bible study or just a conversation with people of your congregation. They tend to worry that you are being led down the wrong path or you’re falling away.

[@revolutionofordinaries]

I think you might be benefitted from this one - kzbin.info/www/bejne/hX6XeoaEqa9pptk

[@toddbu-WK7L]

This is a very nicely done video, Matt. Like you, I spent some time in that legalistic camp, though perhaps not as deeply as you seem to have. What I say about legalism is that it demonstrates that person's lack of understanding of the depth of their own sin, The reason that I embrace grace so firmly is that God has demonstrated time and again my utter dependence on Him for my salvation. How much my understanding of God's mercy drives me to be merciful to others.

[@revolutionofordinaries]

Grace was largely absent...it took a while to understand Grace and the Holy Spirit's work...not that I fully understand it still!

[@parkerwise8082]

I have a similar story to you Matt, although I’m much younger and there are some differences. For me, what really changed my mind and started this transition was reading the epistles rigorously and noticing that where the apostles drew lines of fellowship and where churches of Christ have historically drawn those lines are two wildly different concepts. My family and role models growing up were very much a mixed bag of sectarianism and a more biblically based approach, but in time through the Scriptures and the examples of faithful Christians before me the LORD eventually led me out of sectarian error. What’s been hard since then is learning to apply that consistently and have grace both to brethren of other denominations but also to sectarians still within my own spiritual family, and that can be a very complicated thing. These videos are super encouraging. God bless, and keep up the good work!

[@revolutionofordinaries]

Thank you for sharing that! It can be very hard to not have bitterness rather than patience with those who are where we were...in the end we all need grace!

[@andyscheurer6336]

I was led out of a legalistic church. Interestingly the pastor doesn’t think they’re legalistic. In the beginning of my realization it was mental gymnastics to discern but overtime I could see it easily. This was a Hyles IFB type church. I was drawn to this church because I believed this church was the closest to Gods word. They take God and church seriously with reverence. As I matured as a Christian and studied the word I became closer to God had a better understanding of God.

[@revolutionofordinaries]

Everyone thinks they are in the center :) Appreciate you leaving a comment.

[@edgardomendezvargas6630]

Thank you for sharing your story. I think the mistake we sometimes make is not to search the scriptures. Part of the mistake of having fallen into a dogma was not to worry about studying the word, but blindly accepting what they taught me, even if I didn't understand anything. I think I have your number. I'll tell you my most complete story soon. I'm sorry if my English isn't that good. God bless you.

[@revolutionofordinaries]

God bless you as well.

[@stephenreeves8297]

Grace and the Holy Spirit is in the whole council of God 🙌

[@julioortiz9896]

I identify with everything you said in this video. Thank you for your courage to share your testimony publicly.

[@revolutionofordinaries]

So glad it was helpful! Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@ric_gatewood]

Would mind please define what you mean by legalism?

[@revolutionofordinaries]

Creating laws where there are none and reading the Bible flat like one giant rule book, which results in creating rules where they don't exist.

[@kimberlyd7398]

Had this in the Baptist church too!

[@MaxMBJ]

Nice testimony.

[@gr8god4u]

Yes, I agree with you on lots of discrepancies in the Church of Christ. Holy Spirit, church planting, miracles today, Narrow perspective, principles of interpretation unique only to Church of Christ.

[@revolutionofordinaries]

God's grace is sufficient!

[@jpsmith81]

Sounds a lot like my faith journey. Thank you for offering your story.

[@revolutionofordinaries]

Thank you JP! Would love to hear your story sometime.

[@robertburrow7371]

I know that church l was baptized at in Tahlequah had a narrow view. I know that the minister who baptized me was of the same type. Not that he was a a bad leader. He taught a class in Religion at NSU. And it seemed to me that while some c of c students took the class it was like let's do this class because he was the teacher and if you were a c of c student it was the right thing to do. But l feel he knew he was the teacher and not a God to his students. I know that his wife with other female Christians. Tried to form a out reach group to the college women. And it wasn't successful. But l would not blame his wife for this. I would say that it just a non religious school. They had a body life meeting over at the College Student building at Tahlequah. Because of the student leadership was falling apart. This was not the ministers fault. I think that this happened because of the student leadership and it failed.

[@TwoScoopsRB]

Much Love and respect to the groundbreaking courageous attitude of grace and acceptance that you have obtained and portray toward the whole ... church of Christ

[@revolutionofordinaries]

Thank you Spencer! Love you bro!

[@davidvartanian]

I can relate, having spent the last 18 years in the international church of christ. I thrived on sectarianism in my early 20s. Because of my own confidence in God’s presence, I’m at a point now where i feel comfortable recognizing other’s authentic faith in Christ, even if they are in a denomination that I disagree with on multiple issues. I just think every 2nd order issue that causes divisions are so debatable on an hermeneutical level that we’re going to have to rely on grace to built unity. We can’t think our way out of theological disagreements. The bible handicaps us in that way.

[@revolutionofordinaries]

Yes - we have to differentiate the things of "first importance" and the peripheral. Appreciate you and your comment...hope you will return to the channel sometime!

[@romulinprince]

Hey Matt. Shalom! I appreciate the sharing of your position on the journey we all are experiencing. I too have grown and still growing through this knowing God, myself and others. It's challenging but life sucks without the challenge. Keeping relationships and severing relationships is one of the most difficult of challenges but also necessary for the honest, truthful journey. I don't believe it's a sin to turn more attention to others than many we've spent decades with and perhaps only scratched the surface in relationship. My goal is to make sure my relationship with God is constantly getting closer, truer on my part and steadfast, unmovable and not drowning in traditions masquerading as worship but being genuine in everything. Like the song that says "Free Your Mind and The Rest Will Follow "! Paraphrased for sensitivity of those that fall apart at a noun that's colorful!😁👊🙏👑 Agape, Matt!

[@revolutionofordinaries]

I love this Will! You are so right. It is all so challenging but God's grace is sufficient! May we continue to plumb the depths of God's word searching for His guidance on a daily basis. Without him we are nothing!

[@luizbrandao7732]

I have been following your videos for the past few months and I really appreciate the way you talk about this entire issue without being disrespectful and with a big purpose of teaching a broader perspective instead of just proving arguments. You found a really good tone of voice to communicate with all COC heads on both sides of the spectrum. To make my story short, After 20 years in the COC (from 14 to 34) and started to feel that something was really wrong with the doctrines. I met my wife (a baptist) and even though she left the Baptist do congregate with me her relationship with God was so much more intense. So, I started to question myself and everything about the doctrine. We decided to take a step back from the COC and visit other churches... I started studying theology and history. Now I feel like I should go back to COC to help people construct their own and intense relationship with our savior, so your channel is being very helpful. Here in Brazil only a few COC groups have understood that what we might have been repeating throughout the years could be traditionalism instead of scripture. It is so sad because we decreasing on member (just like the U.S.) but we don't have a place to talk about it. There are no COC universities here to have open discussions, or many people who understand English to read good books about this subject, etc... Anyways, thank you very much!

[@revolutionofordinaries]

Wow...that is so cool that you are all the way over in Brazil. It is also kind of amazing that the same issues are in so many places. I want to tell you how much I appreciate you leaving a comment and telling more of your story. There may be resources here you can point people to including this playlist - kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z5yWd2eeZZuVeKc God bless you on your journey! I hope we can talk some more.

[@r2aul]

Thanks. I came here looking for the horror stories but your perspective on ‘how the first domino falls’ is an important insight.

[@revolutionofordinaries]

Hey there! So glad it was...God is still working on me...all grace! Welcome to the channel.

[@josephdoctor6423]

Wow incredible I got the same story but mine is focused more on grace as I am from the charismatic background, that's one of the reason I joined COC to find a balance

[@revolutionofordinaries]

It is so amazing how our story and history shape how we come into things. Thanks for sharing!

[@ronnym1977]

I have no idea what legalism is when it comes to our Lord's Church. I do know divisions existed long before the use of musical instruments in worship. Example: church of Christ Church of Christ CHURCH OF CHRIST I believe the ridiculous issue over what case to use in spelling is a form of legalism. I do know the Greek Orthodox Church forbids the use of musical instruments in their assembly as they could read and understand the Greek text and understood the context quite clear. I have no idea what the Baptist Churches teach and I have no desire to inquire. I believe that saying to one's self "I went to Sunday morning assembly, that's good enough" is a legalistic statement. I wasn't privileged enough to go to an institute of higher learning, my education is from the prestigious "School of Hard Knocks" an institution having a huge Alumni Association. I have been to instrumental and acapella worship, the songs played at the instrumental worship had complex arrangements and I wasn't able to participate in singing to our King except for the "7-11" songs: 🎶This is how I fight my battles This is how I fight my battles This is how I fight my battles This is how I fight my battles This is how I fight my battles🎶 Is one example. I believe our Lord's congregations became too focused on "doing church right" and has completely neglected what is headed in The Bible as The Great Commission and translated it to The Great Traditions on both sides of legalism vs. grace.

[@revolutionofordinaries]

Those are good examples.

[@Kurt2222]

Even the Methodist and Catholics rejected musical instruments for centuries! They believed they were evil. History tells us this. So this issue has not been Chrurch of Christ only. Legalism in the Bible provides us with a great example, the pharisees. They relied on their obedience to their 613 laws WITHOUT the humble and loving faith towards all people and God. That is to say that today anyone can be guilty of going through the motions of worship and being kind to others yet without the correct mental attitude. Without love nothing can be righteous, same thing about faith, works by themselves = not saved, faith + works= saved, faith only = not saved. Legalism had been misdifined today just like this false teacher in the video has spoken about it. Romans 1:5 & 16:26 speaks of an obedient faith, the greek rendering means that it is "obedience that comes from faith" that is to say that if you have real faith then that absolutely implies that you will be obedient. The two CANNOT be separated. We find this all throughout the entire Bible, old testament and new testament. Saving faith is ALWAYS the obedient faith. Too many explicit statements to prove this to be so for people to say otherwise.

[@meithink642]

There are many who've left the cofc churches due to its legalistic atmosphere. All churches have generational issues. Other protestant churches have offshoot churches named '______ community church' as few seem to comfortably embrace the new with the old. Over the years, after a former cofc life, I have been to megachurches with the celebrity pastor, and to no church - just me and God! I've come to believe God's Grace and the Holy Spirit in my life, and my 'Faith' has never been deeper. We believers follow a God who created life out of nothing...anything legalistic seems pretty insignificant by comparison. Music, and how it has evolved with Hillsong, Australia, has been a catalyst for many. The Bible says, 'in psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs'....Barton Stone/Campbells decided to go the legalistic route in 1808! lol. The pharisee's were legalistic and Jesus healed many that only 'believed'. The apostles tended to be a bit legalistic at times. But God knows our hearts! That...is the New Covenant! Praying for you, and may see you in Auburn some day.

[@revolutionofordinaries]

Thank you for sharing your journey. If you are ever in the area let me know!

[@Kelle0284]

The pharisees were legalistic??? It would be interesting to see where you dug up your opinion.

[@hny2396]

Your thought process in this video is my exact thoughts now.

[@revolutionofordinaries]

Thank you Mike! I am so glad to hear that and so glad you found the video! There are a ton more like it on the channel...I hope and pray each one is a blessing to you.

[@jamesstrohl2016]

This video applies somewhat to me. I too have felt that there was something amiss in what I have been taught. Not that the teaching was completely wrong but that I was searching for something deeper in the scripture. So I threw out all the teaching that I had in the past and decided to do what God said and that was test HIS word. And how my eyes were opened is beyond belief.

[@revolutionofordinaries]

Very hard to come at scripture like a blank slate...basically impossible but still an important thing to attempt!

[@jamesstrohl2016]

@@revolutionofordinaries You are correct. This has been a journey for a couple of years and it's still on-going. One of the things that catapulted me was the studying of Revelation with a focus on the last 3 chapters. And what aided (don't poke at the grammar, lol) me in my study of Revelation was Revelation 1. There are other things also and very difficult to write down. I am positive I am on the right path. Not because of feelings but because it fits and its based on how I know the Bible is to be read and my knowledge. God bless.

[@caman171]

Glad to see some of the CoC's coming home to their Baptist roots lol. ( oh i already know how that statsments gonna go over lol, true none the less)

[@revolutionofordinaries]

actually presbyterian roots more than baptist.

[@caman171]

@@revolutionofordinaries not so fast. When Alexander Campbell joined the Baptists, he had abandoned calvinist theology entirely, and only accpet immersion for baptism. So he was truly "Baptist" by the time he began the restoration mvmt. Now you "might" could use that argument with Barton Stone, as he came directly from the Presbyterians, but again, he had already abandoned calvinism. To say that "churches of Christ" have Presbyterian roots is absurd. CoC's have always been independent, with elders and deacons (two offices) and two ordinances, and allowing only immersion. Their roots are wholly Baptist, albeit the more free will type

[@Foggybottom45543]

@@caman171actually their roots are tied in with the Mormons

[@elizabetha2056]

You're young yet. This is a pretty big topic for a short video. Not one sided, very debatable, not cut in stone as you continually grow in faith. I'm in my 60s and I can relate to how you are thinking now, as I was once young too. You will be surprised to see the changes in yourself when wisdom comes with age. In Christian Love

[@skylerlandry6506]

He is much wiser than an old Church of Christer. I am too....I left years ago! Thank God!!

[@elizabetha2056]

@@skylerlandry6506 I didn't say he wasn't wise. I said wisdom comes with age. I did not say "I" was wise. I'd be a fool to think so. I said wisdom comes with age. Wisdom is a gift from the Holy Spirit. I was not raised in the COC. I joined when I was in my 20s. I am not a "church of Christer". And yes I am quite proud to be old. Three of my children never made it to 30. I have raised 21 children in these 60+ years. I am a follower of Christ who attends the COC. In fact I attend several. God Bless you.

[@skylerlandry6506]

@@elizabetha2056 I believed you were saying that Mr. Dabbs would be wiser when he was older and realize that there is not legalism in the CoC. I'm sorry to have made that assumption if that is not what you meant. I'm sure there are members of this church who are not judgmental and legalistic. I've attended dozens of these churches and every one of them were legalist. It sounds like you have a difficult life with some real tragedies. I am sorry that you had to endure these things. God bless you!

[@elizabetha2056]

@@skylerlandry6506 Thank You Skyler. No I was not telling Matt that. :o) Apology accepted! Its hard to read intent on comments a lot of the time isn't it! Growing up in Catholic and Lutheran Churches I could tell you a lot of legalistic things that happened to me with those specific churches, mostly from doctrine. And of course I've seen legalism in a COC before. Until Heaven I fear nothing is perfect! Anyhow ALL just my humble opinion. I hope and pray you have a wonderful Thanksgiving. We have so much to be Thankful for! I'm especially Thankful that this year 2020 I found Matt's channel and have enjoyed many of his topics on the church and his bible teachings.

[@revolutionofordinaries]

What a beautiful conversation and coming to mutual understanding in such a kind way. Loved reading that!

[@versatilelord8893]

Come home bro lol To the Catholic Church

[@revolutionofordinaries]

lol

[@Kelle0284]

@@revolutionofordinaries Why the lol?

[@ronnym1977]

@@Kelle0284 Asking a Church of Christ member to join the catholic church is equivalant to asking a deeply rooted Judiazer to become Christian, hence the lol.

[@caman171]

why go from one legalist church to an even MORE legalsitic one? Jesus is who saves, not any church

[@megnlu]

I would exhort you to run away fast from the RCC. It's false doctrines nullify the ONCE & for all time sacrifice of Christ & His grace that is sufficient for all mankind's sins when they repent of their sins & follow the Messiah; the only way to the Father