Why I Left Lordship Salvation (Part Two) | Theocast

[@xenossoundworks7771]

I fell into the "Lordship" gospel and it really messed me up for a long time. What finally led me back to the "grace" gospel was reading the conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus, where Jesus said "As the serpent in the wilderness was lifted up, so shall the Son Of Man be lifted up". This lead me to study the story of the bronze serpent in Numbers 21, and I had an epiphany. The people were bitten by snakes as punishment for their misdeeds, but to be forgiven and live, they only had to _GAZE_ at a bronze sculpture! That was purely an act of faith which had _nothing_ to do with behavior or agreeing to live a certain life. Then I studied the Passover story and noticed a similar pattern. In order to be spared, they were only asked to do a ritual purely based in faith - paint their doorposts in sheep's blood. The symbolism and underlying meaning between these two stories was obvious. Long before Jesus was even born, God already had a history of letting people off the hook through simple acts of faith!

[@michaelalbertson7457]

Grace is the divine influence upon the heart and it's reflection in our lives. We don't deserve that, it is undeserved favor Jesus said, why do you call me Lord and not do the things that I say? In the beginning of this video, the speaker perverted the meaning of the scriptures that he explained that he is forsaking. This man is not speaking of God. Close, but close isn't close enough for God. The whole truth will make you free. This man is not free. He sounds good, but the Spirit does not bear witness of what he says is completely true. He believes it because he didn't like the conviction of the Holy Spirit. It relieves him of any doubts. The more he talks, the more error he speaks. Yet, he uses much truth. The devil will give you 99% truth from the Bible, but not the other 1% that brings one to true salvation. Only itching ears believe this man. The very fact he dismisses scripture by saying it is not in context with the surrounding scriptures, even though Jesus spoke it, is a dead giveaway, that he a false teacher. Another guy who says he knows the way to do things while ignoring the important salvation scriptures. Sounds nice and good, don't he? But he's a wolf, at least a goat, in sheep's clothing.

[@2Chronicles714_]

Read past John 3:18. John has plenty to say about if we are truly with Christ John 3:19-21,36 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. 20For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. 21But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God. Jesus is the Light. (John 14:6) 36Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him. To merely say I believe while loving darkness,and living in unrepentant sin, HATES THE LIGHT by not obeying the Son. Repentance followed by obedience results in a lifestyle change that is saving Faith.

[@michaelalbertson7457]

@@2Chronicles714_ So true, a life that glorifies God. True Christianity.

[@archangel_one]

Jesus Christ Himself taught "Lordship Salvation" but I feel that I must point out that the term "Lordship Salvation" seems to be not well-defined. Also, it seems to be wrongly interpreted to force it to be wrong. Jesus is never wrong. Sometimes I think it is a "works vs faith" argument, and I'm glad you mentioned "acts of faith" which is of course works.

[@archangel_one]

@@michaelalbertson7457 It is a satanic doctrine because it's basically saying that what Christ taught is wrong. Remember, you don't test these guys with the Spirit, but rather with the Word. The Word does not bear witness that what he preaches is true. If you believe that the Spirit is talking to you, everything that it says must agree with the Word. Beware of our hearts because God said... Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? also... 1John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

[@andrew9409]

About 3 years ago, I found myself not being able to listen to the John Mac’s, Pipers, Washers, et. Al. And I couldn’t figure out why. All I knew is that I had a real phobia of their preaching styles. I always loved these guys, but I started to feel burnt out! These videos have opened my eyes! Thank you!

[@peytonpruett9416]

I agree, had a similar experience. I used to listen to them a lot and one day Paul washer said something that made my ears perk up He quoted John 3:16 and then continued to say “I don’t care that it says God so loved the world” and that really troubled me I also began to question their theology and teachings because it seemed so flat with no depth at all very wide but no depth then I began to question my salvation everyday and idk why it’s pretty scary

[@TheRealTSA]

This video truly blessed me. I have been pondering on those that teach this for a while now. Wasn’t sure why until this video. My eyes are truly opened ! Can’t believe I was caught up in this for the past year now. God bless you for sharing this!

[@melodysledgister2468]

Yes, it’s so sneaky! And it sounds “biblical.” You don’t see it coming. We need these reminders to get back on the straight and narrow.

[@KissTheSon401]

Happy to hear you came out of Lordship salvation!

[@artemusbowdler7508]

I guess Jesus never wanted to be called Lord. The word κύριος (translated Lord) appears 717 times in the NT; I guess it was a mistranslation? Why call Jesus Lord if He is not really Lord over you? You were in it because it is scriptural.

[@duriuswulkins4324]

@@artemusbowdler75081 John 4:17-19 “17 Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world. 18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love. 19 We love Him because He first loved us.”

[@ROTAX1]

@@artemusbowdler7508 I think you missed the point. You’re saved by grace not by works.

[@artemusbowdler7508]

@@ROTAX1 If you cannot earn salvation through good works, you cannot lose your salvation through bad works; however, if you are saved through faith, then you are unsaved through the absence of faith. "Elect" does not not mean salvation; God's grace was extended to the Ephesians who heard the gospel message through the preaching of Paul. “For by grace [Paul preached to the Ephesians the good news] are ye saved through faith [Ephesians believed in the gospel message and were saved] ; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God (Salvation was not earned by good works: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works (Saved unto Lordship), which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them” (Ephesians 2:9-10).

[@CXa-z7e]

First, I've been quite a long time listener to the podcast you have! I'm finding myself struggling, because it almost seems like there are two types of Lordship Salvation. One is the works-based version that is being discussed here, and I 100% agree that is not Biblical! However, there is also the type of Lordship Salvation that people like the reformers, as well as people like Sproul, Lawson, Horton, and many others seem to promote. IN their case, it is about recognizing that the Holiness (unique set-apartness and absolute perfection of God along with His demand that He is LORD over everything and everyone and there is no other true lord, the first commandment tells us that we are to place no gods before Him as He is the one true God and there is no other, Romans 10:9 tells us that we will be saved if we confess with our mouths that Jesus is Lord and believe in our hearts that God raised Him from the dead, and if you look at the 2 Peter 1:9 verse that you mentioned in part 1 in context with its surrounding verses, it actually talks about the fact that we should be thinking of our actions as verse 10 states "Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to make your calling and election sure, for if you practice these qualities [see v. 7] you will never fall", and Mark 1:15 also says that we are not just to believe but to repent and believe and that the Kingdom is at hand "and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the [kingdom of God is at hand]; [repent and believe] in [the gospel].". If also, Calvin, Luther, and the other reformers(yes, I am thoroughly reformed) all teach that the Sovereignty of God is at the very heart of reformed theology, in fact R. C. Sproul stated that the Sovereignty of God is what holds the whole Gospel together and is at the very center of every doctrine (including each of the Doctrines of Grace) that make up reformed theology, and if Sovereignty, Kingdom, and Lord/Lordship all mean essentially the same thing "Lord" then why would Lordship Salvation be wrong in its more basic sense. It seems to me there are two types: 1) What you are describing, you have to do this and that and the other to believe and remain saved. That is truly heretical and is truly works based and makes it a work we do before, during, and after salvation and is tied to the Law and is definitely not good news. 2)The other taught by Christ, the Apostles (including Paul), the reformers, and most of the truly reformed scholars I know today, seems to be the idea that although Lordship is part of Salvation, it is a work done through us by the Holy Spirit as a way to glorify God not us as it is done by the LORD Himself working through His Elect. Given that John 3:3 tells us that we can't even believe unless the Holy Spirit regenerates us first and gives us the amazing additional gift of faith to believe (Ephesians 2:8-9), and given that before we are even told in Romans 10:9 and Mark 1:15 to believe we are first told to confess Christ's Lordship (Romans 10:9) and repent (Mark 1:15), and given that we know the Holy Spirit is never deceptive and that we can only let our lips say that Christ is LORD and make true repentance to God with the Holy Spirit's help (we cannot do this before salvation, but only at the moment that the Spirit is given to us) it would seem that this type of Lordship Salvation is exactly what the whole Bible, the reformers, and current genuinely reformed theologians seem to proclaim. So 1 above seems to suggest that to get saved and stay saved you must do things (works based) and through your own power. While in contrast, 2 above says that you are still acknowledging the Lordship of God and understanding of what it means for God to be Thrice Holy as part of your Salvation, but you are doing this through the guidance, leading, prompting, power, and convicting of the Holy Spirit and through His Will not your own so as to glorify God as you are confessing His Sovereignty over your life completely. So in this form, wouldn't Lordship Salvation be correct as it would seem to honor the LORD of LORDS who came to this earth to die for His chosen and it would honestly just be glorifying Him. Also, it wouldn't be doing things to try to Get or remain saved... but rather as our love and gratitude toward our LORD and Savior. So if the first alone is lordship salvation, then I want nothing to do with it as it is truly heretical! But if the second is Lordship Salvation then I will gladly proclaim it as the truth of Salvation until the day I enter glory and for all of eternity thereafter! For I was saved to serve my LORD and revere Him like Isaiah when he fell to his face in reverent fear when the glory of the Thrice Holy God entered the temple! That is the God I know, love, and serve and because of His unbelievable grace which He gave me even though I fail every commandment every day of my life, I will proclaim Him, as He has called and empowered me to do through His wonderful Holy Spirit, the ONE and ONLY TRUE Holy and Sovereign LORD!

[@Sam-xs3fv]

Truly well written.

[@glenlyn52]

@user-xd5cx8rf5q agree with you. I hope other people can see how the soteriology of Calvinism represented here can go wrong and misrepresent how the Holy Spirit works in the lives of believers who acknowledge Jesus as their Savior and Lord.

[@grimmiegrimbeek7446]

Yes. I totally agree with you. He talks about John Macarther's book, as presenting Lordship salvation in a wrong way. I did not read the book. But I listened to many of John Macarthur's sermons and I understand him teaching your second example exactly. The Holy spirit doing the work in us as a result of our salvation. Not we doing it ourselves to stay saved. We need to fix our eyes on Jesus as Lord. All the time. He'll do the rest.

[@KalebSwan]

Thank you for articulating, I too was thinking this. It seems that Pastor Jon Moffitt, knows only, or is at least only presenting, "a" version of Lordship Salvation. His definition of Lordship Salvation would not be one to which I agree, or would consider as an appropriate definition. I find most appropriate the definition of Lordship Salvation as presented by R.C. Sproul, Steve Lawson and others. I'm afraid this video causes more confusion, especially for those that are reformed and unaware of the definitions of Lordship Salvation.

[@cathywible8769]

Yes, thanks for your thorough response. I was really wanting to understand their position but I kept thinking the whole time that what he was saying about those who teach the Lordship position was not accurate at all. At least from those I've listened to.

[@sondrapletcher4044]

So grateful for this Podcast and clear teaching, helping me to renew my mind correctly in the Word after having been under lordship salvation teaching my whole life. Praise God for his great salvation and good news to us that all has been accomplished in Jesus Christ Alone and that we can rest in that!

[@thomasdaniel22]

Wow, I'm benefitting so much from these videos! Thanks for taking the effort to clarify!

[@powerhouseministries3679]

This was very helpful, thank you for trusting Jesus to do his great works in you.

[@missthunderstormable]

This is the gospel I first received and this is totally in line with what I have been taught back then and what I believe, to the dot. Later on some youtubers and acquaintances and some friends started to confuse me, but I always stick to the gospel I first heard. Many people do not understand that their "gospel" is performance based and a lot of online preachers preach a poisoned message that is not Paul s Gospel of grace! I am always amazed at how great our God is, how abundant His grace is, how good He is to us! Haleluja!

[@john146muaythai]

You believe a false gospel

[@JhutaNabi]

Amen!

[@shevy7197]

Amen to that ❤️ ✝️ xx

[@michaelalbertson7457]

James 1:22. Be ye doers of the Word and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. You must do something, and only the LORD can tell you correctly. Every other effort is fruitless. You who believe this man are grievously deceived because you love slogans, because then you don't have to get the truth from the Holy Spirit, your itching ears go to pleasant sounding worldly voices, to get YOUR truth of scriptures. Anytime I hear , YOU DON'T THINK GOD WOULD, blah, blah, blah, it sounds like the devil mocking the truth, like the serpent to Eve. This guy says it often. It's devil inspired. Listen to his voice. It's the voice of a deceiver. Oh, yes, he quotes scripture, but his interpretations and explanations are not of God. And none of you can see that. The devil can come as a angel of light. Know that God sees your heart. It is about how you live.

[@artemusbowdler7508]

I guess Jesus never wanted to be called Lord. The word κύριος (translated Lord) appears 717 times in the NT; I guess it was a mistranslation? Why call Jesus Lord if He is not really Lord over you? You were in it because it is scriptural.

[@randygarza490]

Great teaching. Well explained

[@MrKC23]

This is good, I imitate Ray Comfort a lot, but now I will re-adjust my Gospel presentation to unbelievers

[@missthunderstormable]

ray is just the opposite of this message

[@antonioboffa5998]

ray comfort has a false gospel of lordship salvation, its false, mark and avoid him romans 16.17

[@antonioboffa5998]

hey jay thats good to hear

[@runewolf77]

Yeah we're supposed to show the love of Jesus to nonbelievers so that they c God and be saved. I mean we're not perfect sometimes we have our bad days and forget that we have Jesus to keep us strong but usually it all takes a little kindness to open their eyes 😉

[@joelthompson7064]

I'm so loving this. Lordship theology messed me up so bad.

[@neofd3223]

This is beautiful and both your videos helped me a tonne!!

[@karaluker]

This was so helpful and clearly articulated. Thank you!

[@JohnArcycle]

My experience of over 40 years. It’s all about how hard you try. You can’t achieve your own righteousness through works, but you are a lousy Christian if you don’t try hard enough. I love the revelation that sanctification is a gift, something that God is working in you and not something I am trying to do through my works. Trying hard has always led me to failure.

[@BingoNamo-gb8pz]

Do you even know what works God wants you to do?

[@mewzy2283]

Thank you for this! Finally, some answers! 😊

[@jeangreen432]

Love is the key. The more you read the Bible, the more you fall in love with God. Jesus lived and died for us, He wants the same love from us ... that's what Revelation teaches. The prayer Jesus taught us "Our Father who art in heaven hallowed be thy name, thy Kingdom come thy will be done on earth just as it is in Heaven..." We were created to bring HIm honor, glory and power, this will bring us great joy for He truly is worthy. Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, praise God

[@JohnArcycle]

I love this video. Thank you and thank Jesus.

[@MeiravBerale]

Really helpful, thank you!

[@lionsoftruthministries3126]

Excellent video God bless you preaching the true gospel! Amen

[@JosephGuth]

Enjoyed both videos... I also commented below...

[@johnnewell6758]

This helped me a lot, thank you.

[@adamsumner6131]

So good! Thank you!

[@THEOCAST]

Thanks!

[@ryanjamietaylor1134]

This was so so good

[@AarmOZ84]

Where has this message been my whole life? 😮

[@rockchalk9078]

Contained in THE King James Bible (Word of God).

[@AarmOZ84]

@@rockchalk9078 😆🤣😂😆🤣😂

[@DavidJacks1967]

Excellent! Thank you!

[@jostreet214]

Yes, this was very helpful! I am eternally grateful for God's mercy and grace. I lived the majority of my life worrying about losing my salvation and if I was pleasing God with my life. Even though I was first exposed to the reformed doctrine in my teens, it wasn't until just a few years ago, as an adult, that I saw the true beauty of God's redemptive plan of salvation without "works" mixed in. While I understand that you can be saved and not reformed, it's very concerning to see how easily works-based teaching can grow from causing basic confusion on the state of your salvation to things like spiritual disciplines that directly teach a works-based/self-driven sanctification. When Christ is no longer the author and finisher of our faith; and we have some responsibility in our salvation, there's no end to the number of false teachings that can creep in.

[@richardsutliff5629]

Good stuff, thanks for your time and effort. Keep up the good works(😉).

[@THEOCAST]

Thanks!!!

[@H.E.M.]

Lordship salvation is what I thought I had to do. I would pray to God “if salvation is a gift, then why does it seem like I have to earn it/keep it”. The verses Matthew 7:21-23 makes a whole lot more sense now.

[@pittymaster496]

For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, (which God prepared beforehand) that we should walk in them. Even our good works are not our own. He has prepared them for us, His elect. I know alot of people struggle with that, but His Word is True.

[@PSModernKitchens]

Very good thank you 🙏

[@johndodson8464]

Good job, man. Good job.

[@paulmcintosh3345]

This was beautifully worded. Thank you

[@shevy7197]

There can be NO joy in the Lord if a man is continuing to doubt himself, even after he knows for sure he has been given the gift of the spirit, it also hinders a man to evangelise others while doubting himself and dwelling in sorrow x

[@BingoNamo-gb8pz]

Yes, before I understood this I didn’t want to share the gospel. How can I share something I’m constantly unsure about? Now that I KNOW the gospel I can’t help but tell everyone this very good news that it’s all a gift & God will never take this gift away from us. Just as certain as a sinner won’t wake up one day righteous without faith, so the righteous will not wake up one day a sinner with faith. The key is faith in God, not man. Can’t wait to tell everyone I know. It’s much better news than we ever imagined.

[@shevy7197]

@@BingoNamo-gb8pz I'm very glad with the holy spirit of the Lord if I have left any imprint on your spirit at all, God willing, in these days, we need men to be confident in their salvation and joyful to share the gospel of love with others, God bless you ❤️ ❤️ ❤️ ✝️ xxxxx

[@CrabTribe]

Thank you so much for your honesty and boldness in declaring truth. I’d like to start posting my own little theology videos and I loved your take on 2 Peter 1.

[@artemusbowdler7508]

I guess Jesus never wanted to be called Lord. The word κύριος (translated Lord) appears 717 times in the NT; I guess it was a mistranslation? Why call Jesus Lord if He is not really Lord over you? You were in it because it is scriptural.

[@CrabTribe]

@@artemusbowdler7508 Jesus is Lord. No one in Free Grace I think would dispute that. However, the practice of submitting to his lordship (i.e rejecting sin) is a work. It has a place under discipleship and sanctification. But we are justified by faith alone. And faith itself is not a work but the absence of it (Rom. 4:5). I think it’s important also to note that “Lord” can be used as a recognition of Christ’s deity. You must have faith in the correct Jesus, so rejecting His deity is to reject the person and rule the promise of eternal life invalid.

[@artemusbowdler7508]

@@CrabTribe So you have Lordless salvation?

[@artemusbowdler7508]

@@CrabTribe So there is Lordless Christianity?

[@CrabTribe]

@@artemusbowdler7508 I am not sure you understand what I said. Again, Jesus is Lord and his deity must be affirmed to validate the promise of eternal life. However, the actions in submitting to His lordship are incompatible with grace. Our lifestyle choice in living for Christ is a response to salvation, not a prerequisite to it. But the answer to your question isn’t straightforward since we are “saved” also from temporal consequences of sin by rejecting sinful habits. If you cease drinking, you’ll save yourself from liver failure for example. This is the idea from James 5:19-20 & 1 John 5:16. In fact, the idea of salvation meaning “deliver from eternal condemnation” is a rare use in the NT. Very much so I would agree submitting to Christ’s commands of obedience and rejecting sin saves us practically from life threatening consequences and from its power in this life.

[@sbentsen2714]

Thank you brother for sharing this, ive forgotten that it is the good NEWS, already been done. Its not my works 🙏🏼😌

[@Star-dj1kw]

❤ saving to a playlist

[@kylesybesma7864]

It's interesting to see a person that is reformed understand these truths. I always assumed that lordship arose out of reformed/tulip/Calvinism. I left LS movement and went to the free grace theology movement, which is in agreement with this video.

[@Ivo-c9m]

Hi John, I loved these two parts of your podcast. I have never been to a church with a reformed doctrinal approach but I am greatly attracted to its truth, so please be patient with my comments. I feel, that something is missing from what you said. Your message had a lot to do with assurance of salvation and I have often struggled with this along the lines you mentioned, in common with so many. In addition to assurance of salvation, I have often also struggled with whether I am pleasing the Lord. The thing is when you love someone, you want to please them. You said we do good works because of what God done for us. But that message can, to some people, sound as if we do it out of moral obligation because of what He has done. As you say, God is at work in us. I think the bit that needs to be said is that He actually changes our thinking. Our transformation takes place as our mind is renewed. Jesus delighted to do the will of the Father. The law was written on His heart. God does the same with us. He works in us to Will and to do of His good pleasure. Also, the Spirit in us cries Abba Father (Gal 4:6). We increasingly grow in our love for Him and our relationship becomes more intimate. We want to please Him and so increasingly avoid the things we do that are displeasing to Him. In fact, with our changing mindset, these things increasingly become less attractive. I'm really just trying to grasp the truth of these things and I don't mean any of this as a criticism of what you said. Paul tells us to make every effort to enter the rest of God and you are helping us do just that. Praise God. Thank you brother!

[@RyanJackson1]

Thankyou 😢

[@kevinrichmond6988]

Glosspel. Nice. The Gospel is clear. It is good news! Through him we have also obtained access into this faith in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God!

[@BingoNamo-gb8pz]

I think he meant “glawspel” but “loss” works too.

[@brianc81]

We (believers) don't REPENT..we Confess our sins. I John 1:8-10. The believer has already "Repented" of their UNBELIEF!

[@retrograd332]

This is too narrow. If a believer is caught in a besetting sin, they would need to confess as you say, but also repent (turn) from it. What good is a confession if you just continue committing the sin?

[@brianc81]

@@retrograd332 You have not turned from all your sins liar. To 'REPENT' would mean to turn from ALL your sins (not just some of them). Biblical repentance is repenting of your 'unbelief' , as we will always to continue to sin as we are still in this sinful flesh- SEE Romans 7:14-22 and read it hard! Repenting is repentance toward God- Acts 20:21 "Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ." All which are granted to the believer.

[@J_a_s_o_n]

@@brianc81 your attitude is sickening. God is LOVE the greatest commandment! You lack the attitude of LOVE. Repent of this flaw. We are to repent of any sin which is doing anything out of God's will.

[@brianc81]

@@J_a_s_o_n Nah, it's just that you have no clue what the Bible teaches. You still sin...every...single..day! And if you say you don't sin, the Bible says you're a LIAR! And guess what? It only takes just ONE sin to condemn you. So take your self righteous "attitude" and shove it! And by the way..this is the Will of God.....John 6:37-40 " All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

[@georgeluke6382]

Hey Jon; first, hello, and good to hear from you and see this transition to Reformed theology! I'm over in the WCF camp, but appreciate this. I've been listening to your stuff, and appreciate the dedication to God's Word and preserving the preciousness of the Gospel and the rest that's distinct from ethical demands that Jesus makes for us. I think I see a tighter connection between the Gospel, and how it frees us to want to be obedient, and to perform good works- Romans 8:4 in its context, comes to mind. It seems that the righteous requirement of the law is fulfilled in the renewal of our desires that being united to Christ's atonement gives us. It seems to me the goodness of the Gospel is that we can truly become creatures who are forgiven for our corruptions and who really want to and do good, through our union with Christ making us alive to do good, whereas in Adam we weren't able to do good. Would you disagree with that? I don't think we'd disagree confessionally, but I think I do hear an emphasis difference. Am I mishearing?

[@artemusbowdler7508]

I guess Jesus never wanted to be called Lord. The word κύριος (translated Lord) appears 717 times in the NT; I guess it was a mistranslation? Why call Jesus Lord if He is not really Lord over you? You were in it because it is scriptural.

[@georgeluke6382]

@@artemusbowdler7508 ? Not sure how this applies

[@artemusbowdler7508]

@@georgeluke6382 If you can be eternally secure without making Christ Lord, then you are a Lordless Christian.

[@georgeluke6382]

...What does this have to do with my original comment?

[@artemusbowdler7508]

@@georgeluke6382 There is no such thing as Lordless Christianity.

[@4jchan]

I believe many people get sanctification or Lordship salvation misconstrued. Scripture does teach that saving faith will produce good works and that a profession of faith does not necessarily mean a possession of faith. So we do have to look at good works as proof of our justification/saving faith. But we do not ask if we live out our life in perfect obedience to Christ nor do we ask if we did enough for Christ as if there is some kind of threshold or to do list. Rather we must ask ourselves do we love Christ AT ALL? There is the difference between the unregenerate and regenerate. The unregenerate has NO love for God AT ALL while the regenerate has at least some love for God. If you have any love for Christ then you are elect and you can trust that the Holy spirit will preserve your faith and sanctify you until the end of your life. Yes, we fall into sin continually but we persevere till the end.

[@trishaaguayo367]

Here's a quote from an excellent book I heartily recommend, 'The Wonder of Grace' by Herman Hoeksema (ch. 20 - Working Out Our Salvation by Grace, pg. 77)..."It is Christ who bears fruit in us when we work out our own salvation, even as the vine bears fruit through the branches; and we have nothing to boast in ourselves. But we bear this fruit, too, with joy and delight, and enjoy the privilege of being his co-workers. Hence, the word of God treats us as God's free and obedient children and as such addresses us: "Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." Besides, let us not forget that as long as we are in this life and in this world, we are in constant need of hearing this word and of being reminded of our calling, of being admonished and encouraged in the good fight of faith. For we must walk as children of light and manifest the salvation of God in the midst of a world that lies in darkness. And that is not easy for the flesh..."

[@yalew6231]

worth listening! Different from what I know so far.

[@krisjustin3884]

Well, nice to see a Calvinist I agree with about salvation! So true that we can never measure up to God’s standards of holiness no matter how much we repent or serve Christ. A fast way to despair is to compare our lives with what we think we should be to be saved rather than knowing that we believe Jesus took our sins and punishment on our behalf at the cross. You sound like the original reformers! Sadly, they had to compromise somewhat as the Roman Catholics accused them of antinomianism and thus backloaded the gospel with the need for works to prove your salvation. Many a road leads back to Rome!

[@theodoreritola7641]

What kind of works to prove salvation ?

[@krisjustin3884]

@@theodoreritola7641 I know the Roman Catholic ‘works of the law’ argument. Remember this church murdered many a Christian for their faith. So much for works, regardless of the law or otherwise!

[@garypostell5268]

Must be faithful to the very end and try our best not to sin after Salvation and receiving the Holy Spirit!

[@AbbyMore]

Good luck with that, let’s hope you stay faithful!

[@NewBornNickumz]

Then there is no purpose in being saved and regenerated because if that’s what it takes you might as well stay lost because that is the struggle of a lost person and them having to worry about eternity! That is works based salvation.

[@sharnyo]

Thanks for illuminating this topic. Salvation is 100% gift of God through the Gospel - irrespective of what we did before and will do afterwards. To be assured of salvation is only to satisfy our own confidence/curiosity and has nothing to do with the state of us already being saved. The temptation from our flesh will remain as it is (same was with apostle Paul) and will not impact our righteous standing with God in our Lord Jesus Christ.

[@artemusbowdler7508]

I guess Jesus never wanted to be called Lord. The word κύριος (translated Lord) appears 717 times in the NT; I guess it was a mistranslation? Why call Jesus Lord if He is not really Lord over you? You were in it because it is scriptural.

[@wisebear2919]

Jon: Thanks as a "Reformed" Pastor for your honest, biblical and courageous presentaion. You have a tremendous opportinity to speak into the pitfalls of this persuasion that can be way more effective than those that may not be wholly Calvinistic in their soteriology, like myself. You've indentified the major areas of Biblical truth with the spiritual and practical deficiences this error has brought. It's hurting the Church and causing undo division by those that hold this error so rigidly, that if questioned or cautioned, charge that we actually don't believe the Gospel. They are suspicious of every profession and are obsessed with an evangelism to the saved, who they beleive on the main, arent saved. The Scriptures warn us of such inquisitons: Matt 13:24-30 (parable of the wheat and the tares); James 4:11. Are there apostates in the Church? Are there false professions? Certainly there are but I must let God, the all knowing and perfect judge, deal with that which I have no right or authority to judge or know. Jesus warns us that in our persuit of inquisition for authenticity I can end up doing great harm to true believers and even myself as His servant. This will be a great resource to share with my fellow Christians who are caught up in this confussion. Thanks again!!!

[@derekmobbs8698]

Great comment!

[@rockchalk9078]

This is 100% correct

[@Muzicboy3]

I agree for the most part with what he is saying, but it’s a few things I think he’s wrong or is confused on … Paul does tell us to examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith. so we can’t act like we are to never look at our lives for evidence… we can’t depend on anything we do to set us in right standing with God, but we must realize that without holiness no man sees the Lord… we must live holy, we must repent, we must fight and battle sin. Will the battle be perfect without failure? No, but this life is still a battle and we must be ready to go to war with our flesh… And Lordship salvation teaches that’s God must first intervene and change your heart in order for the person to even repent or have faith.. so this guy is the one who’s causing confusion… not the teaching of Lordship salvation

[@BingoNamo-gb8pz]

Examining if you are in the faith means to make sure there is nothing else you are relying on but the work of Christ. Grace reigns through righteousness. The just shall live by faith. Jesus is Lord because He is the only one who makes us righteous. No one else can reconcile us back to God, but Him. That makes Him Lord of all creation. We Christians simply acknowledge that He is Lord & so we are saved. We have heard the good news & believed it.

[@savedbyHisGrace7752]

I listen to John MacArthur, Steven Lawson, Richard Caldwell, Voddie Bauchman, as man of godliness. Yet I'm expecting to recieve more from God in my walk that examines myself. Am I living godly, sanctified to be available to God only, yet a servant to those in sharing the gospel, not just by talk but by action.

[@Scott-cq9xt]

You say “I call them to believe it [the gospel]”, but that is also something a dead sinner cannot do apart from the Spirit’s work.

[@jeffroster7391]

1. Dead 2. Brought to life. 3. Then Obey. I agree. Then you say, A heavy emphasis on the reality of, "If you are not willing to make Jesus Lord of your life, then you are not saved." I could say that to every human being. because that quote is true.... If a person is unwilling to make Jesus Lord of their life, they are still dead spiritually. They are bearing fruit unto death. They are not born again. They need the power of salvation, to be born again from above by God. They need the Gospel planted, and God will give the increase, then their new heart will be willing to make Jesus Lord of their life, and they will in fact love God with all their heart, mind, soul, and strength, because He put that heart in them, by imputation, the heart and mind of Jesus. I agree with all your conclusions.

[@garypostell5268]

Nothing can separate us from Gods Love ❤️

[@Sam-xs3fv]

That is, if you're in Christ and walking in the Spirit (Rom 8:1)

[@jdouglas1050]

I struggle to reconcile passages like Galatians 5:17-21. Any help is appreciated.

[@danv4046]

" if you do not accept as a Child the Gift " " the Gift Must be recieved freely as a Child" only That will bring Glory to Jesus ... when One surrenders to the inability and outer dispare of once state of spiritually being dead..... when You surrender To His love..... the love... the spirit will guide you in all truth and will

[@helgeevensen856]

fantastic video... many excellent points... that was a very interesting approach indeed, a rare one, to reject "lordship salvation" and at the same time preserve a "confessional reformed" position... not the usual "Calvinistic" position... but then, a "confessional reformed" position may not always be the same as the usual "Calvinistic" position .... :)

[@krisjustin3884]

Thought the same. Good comment!

[@SuperKnsh]

Love how you break things down in a simple way to understand for simple folk like me lol. Question- what is the different views of repentance and the role it plays in Lordship VS reformed?

[@THEOCAST]

Great question! Here are two episodes: kzbin.info/www/bejne/j6rah2WQhsSme9U kzbin.info/www/bejne/qXyWoWd4jch7e7c

[@RosstheWretch]

Define Lordship Salvation!

[@TBerger53]

I just found this channel and am loving it. In fairness to John MacArthur he doesn’t call what he teaches in “The Gospel According To Jesus” Lordship Salvation. That’s what his detractors call it. He just calls it “Salvation”.

[@THEOCAST]

Would recommend reading Christ the Lord by Michael Horton. We are not MacArthur haters. Just trying to bring some historical clarity. The Whole Christ is also helpful in this discussion

[@user-jn9rv6be3x]

I love macarthur but the leaven of pharisees have corrupted the body of christ especially those like macarthur and reformed believers who have good intentions to obey God. I had a legalistic phase due to lordship salvation teachings by reformed teacher and was miserable and became judgmental. It reaped corruption. We must guard the flock and the shepherds from the leaven of Pharisees

[@krisjustin3884]

@@user-jn9rv6be3x Amen. Great point!

[@PSModernKitchens]

Glawspel!

[@cynthiab3548]

Thank you for your message. What is Reformed Theology?

[@THEOCAST]

We have a lot of videos on our channel answering this question

[@J_a_s_o_n]

Theology is the study of God. Why they ADD reformed is a good question since it's not biblical. They add a doctrine called Calvinism and Cessationism which are false and UNBIBLICAL.

[@user-jn9rv6be3x]

@@J_a_s_o_n calvinism is biblical. Cessationism isnt and is a stretch

[@garypostell5268]

Love the Lord with all you Heart mind and soul stay on the narrow path to find the narrow gate Jesus. Love the World 🌎 leads to the broad path to destruction!

[@josephnemer2662]

When you read the comments they are all in agreement. If that seems strange it is because any comments that are not in agreement are not put on. That should tell you something.

[@datchet11]

I come from a very calvinist background but it was actually Dr Andrew Farley and his grace message that got me questioning everything 🤔

[@JhutaNabi]

Law and grace = oil and water. The Law not only exposes sin, it actually instigates sin (Romans 5:20a, 7:7-11, 6:14).

[@artemusbowdler7508]

Romans 6:1 "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 By no means!"

[@rockhoya10]

Where is scripture about what u spoke of how God ordained us for the good works ahead of time. Thanks guys! This was such a great video

[@amazinggrace4507]

Pastor Thomas Cucuzza explains here and he has the gospel right (see below). Ephesians 1:1-6 - Plain Talk on Election, Foreknowledge, and Predestination kzbin.info/www/bejne/hXWVqoGho5lnpc0 Gospel Presentation by Pastor Cucuzza kzbin.info/www/bejne/iaXKcqetrc6crpI

[@davga2300]

The law was given to condemn us. Almost everyone, once they die, will have chosen to be judged by the rubric of the law at the great white throne judgement. Every last one of them will fail the purity test and be found guilty and will be sentenced to hell. Only those that chose to instead to be justified and find righteousness through the free gift of salvation that faith in Jesus offers will be found pure and go to live with God.

[@brandonblanks9610]

Thank you for that. God bless

[@Jus4kiks]

Faith is active, it is described that way all throughout the bible.

[@jtwarren3464]

Hi, I just finished reading Christ the Lord by Dr. Horton. What does this quote mean from the book “ We affirm that, although no one will be justified by works, no one will be saved without them.”? Thanks.

[@THEOCAST]

Those who are Alive by the Spirit will do works for fruit although they may be varying at times

[@wongsikiongwongsikiong4296]

What is lordship Salvation ? Is it not of God and the only way to Salvation. Don't think that salvation is so simple. Live in the Light ,just as God is light, and the blood of Jesus cleans us from all sins.

[@jtwarren3464]

@@wongsikiongwongsikiong4296 ??? I’m confused about your statement. Do you agree with lordship salvation? What do you mean by saying that salvation is not simple? You believe in works to be saved?

[@wongsikiongwongsikiong4296]

I didn't say like that .But it is natural to have works if there is faith. Faith and works are inseparable. James said we are not justified by faith alone but also works. James 2:14-26.

[@jtwarren3464]

@@wongsikiongwongsikiong4296 But are the works used to justify us to God or to people? How do we know if we have enough works to prove we are saved?

[@robmarshall956]

So is what ray comfort does lordship salvation?

[@Foczee]

Did we really have a change of mind when we repented? Do we hate the sin that caused Christ to die such a horrible death? If so then we are justified, if not we believe in vain. We need to examine ourselves to see if we're being sanctified, if we're not then we should be terrified.

[@tabasco7915]

I don't think we will ever be able to conclusively figure it all out on this side of Heaven (1 Cor 13:12).

[@Jus4kiks]

The man didn't want to give up his money, that is the exact thing that happened with the rich young ruler. Jesus knew his heart, his money was at the front of his heart, Christ needs that spot as the focus of our lives.

[@theodoreritola7641]

Is dying to self works base and works salvation ?

[@djs9315]

I receive the passage about the rich man in the same way.. the guy was professing his own self righteousness.. so jesus tested him on that.. give all your wealth away if you think your able to follow the law and earn salvation..

[@UnderTheFloor79]

Where does it say in the law that someone has to sell all they have, give it to the poor and follow Jesus?

[@pauljuraszek9878]

Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?-unless indeed you fail to meet the test!

[@PETERJOHN101]

Paul in his discussions of "deeds of the law" (the traditional Jewish laws of the Halakah, circumcision, etc) is only addressing Jewish believers. These traditional Jewish laws had nothing to do with gentile believers, so it is wrong to extrapolate some general idea of legalism from Paul's writing. In Galatians 5:19-21 Paul lists all the behaviors that will prevent us from entering heaven, and we see that all of these activities violate one or more of the ten commandments. This is fully consistent with the words of Jesus in Mark 10:19 that we must keep his commandments in order to inherit eternal life. These are separate categories of law and that is why in Romans 3:31 Paul says we are *NOT* free to ignore God's law. Since he exempted circumcision and the laws of the Halakah from salvation doctrine, we know that he was referring to God's moral law, or the commandments. "He that says he knows him, but does not keep his commandments, is a LIAR, and the truth is not in him." (1 John 2:4) By the way, Jesus only refers to salvation in the future tense, never in the past tense. "He that endureth unto the end _shall_ be saved." (Matthew 24:13) Paul refers to salvation only in the perfect present tense (you are being saved), or in the future tense. The Greek words for justification and salvation are not the same. Your doctrine gives rise to the false doctrine of sola fide, which directly contradicts James 2:24. You are leading souls to hell.

[@adamguy33]

So does lordship salvation, its a very narrow path, so narrow most christians cant find it. Your a dirty filthy rag on your best day and can not save yourself. If you can be good enough then why do we need Christ. Can't I just get the self help books and follow the law and eat kosher to receive salvation? If JESUS came to call the sinner, but not the rightous are the rightous good enough then.

[@genoz8090]

@16:30 you said the motivation is not to confirm your faith but yet you failed to read the very next verse that would point blank contradict your reasoning 2 Peter 1:10 Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent TO CONFIRM YOUR CALLING AND ELECTION, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall.

[@kellywhalen5021]

In 2 peter 9 which you had us look at what do we do then with verse 10!!!it almost sounds like "check yourself to make sure you're saved...for if you do THESE THINGS you will never fail" everybody fails and are THESE THINGS the list from verse 5?

[@richierackley7826]

Jesus did say, I sanctify myself so that they may be sanctified! The fruits of the spirit should manifestif a person truly has the love of Christ in as we know we played no part in our salvation, also as we know faith without works is dead. the devil's believe but yet they're still devils. and their hell bound. I have not yet heard your whole sermon but I find that it will be very educating thank you. and thank most of all the king of glory Jesus the Christ, who was slain for the sins of the world ,for all that would come to repentance and call on the name of the Lord shall be saved!

[@djspice1232]

It wasn't talking about believing in jesus It was talking about the devil's believing in one God And as we know believing in Gid grants no one salvation it's believe in what Jesus has done in the criss that saves us If paul was talking about salvation regarding the devil's he would've mentioned believing in jesus

[@Jus4kiks]

Ahh sorry for the multiple comments, but it seems that OSAS is the issue. Salvation is looked at as a single event. If you're on your way to being saved, then Lordship can make sense to you.

[@pauljuraszek9878]

45 Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. 46 He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 You are witnesses of these things

[@BingoNamo-gb8pz]

Yes, turning from your works & trusting in the work of God that was manifested through Jesus. Without blood being shed there is no forgiveness of sins. This makes justification entirely dependent on the blood of His cross.

[@indo3052]

He did receive righteousness by lord obedience. After he kept duet 15 he had the opportunity to be in kingdom

[@randypierson6358]

Wait a minute, when Jesus was asked what shall I do for eternal life christ answered your work is to believe 😊

[@yalew6231]

That sounds very logical. If I have to contribute something to my salvation, I will have something to boast and it will never be a free gift of grace. If it is free, it must be truly free of any of my efforts. If there is any bit of my effort, then it ceases to be free and grace. The other thing is that I can not even do good works that please God if I am not saved first. If I can do or have the capacity to do good works that can save me, Jesus's death was in vain. Why does he have to die for what I can do it with my own capacity? But the text you read from efsians prove that I was dead before God saved me. Ok. If I was dead before I was saved, how did God save me with out my good works? ok. If once I m saved with out doing good works, how can I lose it for not having good works? How can the thing that was not the requirement for getting saved be the requirement for sustaining it? If I can sustain my salvation even after getting saved (at first) with out my efforts, I still have something to boast about (i.e for sustaining it with my good works). He loved me with out my qualification; how can He leave me for not being qualified? He knows that I m not qualified even before He saved me. What a revelation! By the way I write this even to myself who is always nagging that I m not qualified for God's love even with out doing any mistake or sin. I love God. He is my father. I just want to break free from the voice in my head that makes me doubt God's love for me. I believe in the death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ. I believe He died for my sin on the cross. I hate sin and there is no pleasure in sin as it feels there; but if I accidentally sin, God will not take my salvation. I can not be sure that I will not commit sin in the future, but I am be sure that God will not let me down anyways. That, I think, seals the deal. I just got this channel now and it is a redefinition of what I have known. It is different from what I know so far. I will listen part one of this series and your other videos too. You crossed my way with this good news. Thank you. (Sorry if my English is poor. It is just because I m from a poor country.)

[@Sam-xs3fv]

The issue with what you say is that you still have to "do stuff" for salvation. You have faith in Jesus Christ. And not one-time, but on-going. Having faith in Christ is a type of contribution. So did you contribute to your own salvation?

[@rawfeekee657]

The salvation of the thief on the cross lets ua know it is grace alone. Does this mean commit sin until your last dying breath and then ask for Jesus? Nope...that would mean you know who Jesus and only refer to Him for your own personal "needs". Salvation is more than a one time event. Its a genuine desire to know God

[@brianc81]

So in otherwords...WORKS!!!...and then keep working...there is no rest for you! Salvation is by grace, through faith...not working to be more moral or sinning less.

[@derekmobbs8698]

Thank you for these videos, they have been very helpful. Do you believe that there are born again believers who live in perpetual disobedience and continually evidence the flesh while displaying very little (if any) evidence of the Spirit in their lives? I know many Christians deny the reality of "carnal Christians" & I wanted to get your take on it. Thanks!

[@THEOCAST]

They can for a time, read 1689 LBC chapter 5.5

[@J_a_s_o_n]

@@THEOCAST FALSE A Christian who doesn't "reasonably" (as Paul says) , submit to GOD wholly is a babe in God's kingdom. They feed off milk but never or do not want to intentionally grow.

[@corbinbrosneck790]

@@J_a_s_o_n that doesn't contradict what Theocast said.

[@user-jn9rv6be3x]

I was a carnal christian and even seemed like an unbeliever for a long time...like...25 years..God knows those that are His. read the judgment seat of christ. Scripture says there are believers that have no good works and get zero rewards but are saved by the fire. Those are the "least in the kingdom of God"

[@user-jn9rv6be3x]

Also watch John MacArthur's sermon on honorable and dishonorable vessels.

[@Great.Gospel]

Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are the model for the life of a believer and show how each of them have to be brought to an end of their own natural strength and just trust what God has promised. Abraham couldn't produce Isaac by his own effort he just had to trust that God would produce him in his time and that is the same thing as a believer trying to produce the "Christian life' by their own strength when all we can do is continue to produce an Ishmael. This is why circumcision is symbolic of the cutting off of your natural strength which is why the true circumcision is those who have zero confidence in the flesh. Likewise, baptism is meant to produce a similar mindset which is why it begins with your death because you're in agreement with God's judgment on the flesh and now live by faith in Christ because it is now his life in you.

[@patcandelora8496]

I’m a little unclear here. Are you still reformed in some areas? Does regeneration precede faith? Thanks

[@BingoNamo-gb8pz]

No. One is born of the Spirit the moment they hear the gospel AND BELIEVE THE GOSPEL. They immediately enter rest (no longer working to be justified).

[@КлюевСергей-э5с]

13:30 self introspective a person becomes when he loses something experientialy, feel void when once his heart was. Read Psalm 37(38).

[@MargaritaMora-mg1oe]

Is true...thank God for truth Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy; That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate; Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life. 1 Timo 6 who giveth us richly all things to ENJOY🥺❤️🥹 Satan is a lier and a deceiver who lies Rob us of our Joy😞 False Doctrines have cause much damage I pray the Lord have mercy on me🙏💕🥺

[@AllenManor]

Have been under the teaching of Pastor John MacArthur for decades and if anyone should have the struggles with Lordship Salvation that you are outlining it would be me, and yet, I have none of these problems and never have. I have NEVER heard Pastor John advocate for anything you are arguing about, quite the opposite, actually!

[@КлюевСергей-э5с]

13:10 People simply backslide and require restoration. Not of faith but if pulling their souls back up onto the ground from Sheol. And any reasoning doesn’t work. Cause a person remember the moment of their personal salvation, remember them being resurrected like from a grace. And then temptation came and they didn’t treat it seriously and the soul got pulled back down to the Kingdom of darkness. So if Christ is in your body but your personal spirit, your soul got pulled down again, devoured, you feel like standing on the ground and yet being under. And no amount of reasoning on what salvation is makes any difference. If your spirit doesn’t back quickened and return to your body you will still feel like you feel. And the only hole is to be saved “as if by fire”. So, there is a need of spiritual quickening and warfare. Watchman Nee writes about it pretty precise, about the warfare we may lose out of ignorance after the baptism of the Holy Spirit. So, if one saved always saved- ok- as if by fire. But Experience wise a person may spend all his life feelings under. So this stuff is experiential, it’s about raw reality, not about doctrines.

[@dsteigerink]

I would like to learn more about this, it’s amazing the rest it gives me! A school or church anyone recommends? I am in Canada Toronto

[@THEOCAST]

Our Facebook group would be a great place to ask that

[@antonioboffa5998]

yes go to sermon audio Pastor Tom Cucuzza

[@antonioboffa5998]

hey come join us on Discord to find other like minded believers there are some canadians there, Rina from Oz 3528 then i can invite you in to find more Grace believers all over the world.

[@CoffeeCoffeeCoffee86]

When you come to Christ, will your life look different?

[@Jonathan_Gen15.6]

13:58- how do you know to repent unless the Spirit convicts? The Holy Spirit is calling you to examine what He is saying is true. that’s the same thing as self examination of sanctification in Lordship salvation. Justification/assurance is in Christ ALONE.