Why I Left Mormonism

Today we talk about the reasons (behind the reason) for my exit from the Mormon church and how that could apply to other political ideology.
Please share if you found this helpful and reach out if you wanna talk. [e-mail]
#exmormon #mormonism

[@DRT279]

This guy is all over the page. He loves to blame the LDS church for the stupidest stuff. I have a feeling he lives alone and is tortured by his idiotic thoughts. Poor guy!

[@ubermormon9611]

If it helps support your world view to think of me this way, let me confirm it all. I am the most miserable person alive. My life is entirely devoid of joy and laughter. I live in a cupboard under the stairs in the home of my Aunt and Uncle who hate me. My parents were murdered by the most powerful wizard the world has ever seen. Boy has my whole life fallen apart since leaving Mormonism. I can’t believe you could tell all of that by my 13 minute video.

[@DRT279]

@@ubermormon9611 I think of you as a clown and click baiter. Thanks for the verification.

[@ubermormon9611]

@@DRT279 it’s a shame. At least you started with an open mind.

[@DRT279]

@@ubermormon9611 You’ll have a short KZbin life. You seem like a downer and most ppl don’t like to be around downers. Especially downers that carelessly rant. 😛

[@chandlar.olson1214]

@@DRT279 hmmm maybe you should look in the mirror. You’re definitely not uplifting either. SMH.

[@aces.9738]

Terribly sad that people who belonged to an extreme religion (cult) and then leave because they have learned they were teaching lies, that now they become atheists. It is from one extreme to another. There is no more belief in God; no more faith. God is Love and He loves all people.

[@garrgravarr]

Why is it sad? Why should anyone believe in any deity, let alone your favoured one? We should have good reasons for the things we believe. Anything else is delusion.

[@coolkid9967]

I can agree to a point but I think the idea that God is dead rings true. Not literally speaking, God cannot die if it exists, but Nietzsche meant that religious belief of the Abrahamic style was no longer serving us well. I think looking more deeply into what Gods essence is is a smarter path. I enjoy the idea I have heard some Buddhist monks say, that god is an ephemeral and non individual thing. In Buddhist terms, some might call it Dharma. This is just a spitball though, we can always make more progress.

[@ChrisFBartlett]

For ease of use 3:25 Rule 1 “I decide what I can study” 5:15 Rule 2 “I decide what I can say” 7:56 Rule 3 “I can question any people/information”

[@robertturner688]

I was surfing the web and came across your channel, and of those who have left the LDS church, yours was well put and I respect your decision. By that I mean, growing up, my parents encouraged me to have a mind of my own. What does it say in Moroni 10 :4? Read/ ponder/ pray. I asked my parents "what does that mean?" They said "question everything." I looked at them confused. They then told me that if I wanted to know if something were correct, I would have to find out for myself. They then taught me to follow those three steps...1st read or hear it. 2nd think about it. and 3rd Pray about it and then follow your gut. So many times I would go to them with a question and they would ask me, " if I had followed those steps?" So at a VERY young age, my parents gave me the tools to gain the knowledge for myself and then encouraged me to seek the truth. So, like you, my journey has taken me to where I am today. I don't follow "blindly" and I am still "questioning everything" that I hear from my leaders. Because of what I was taught at a very young age.

[@ubermormon9611]

Thank you for the polite comment. We were definitely raised different ways. Maybe I had more experiences like yours I never would have left.

[@orl477]

The holy spirit guides every thought you have it never misleads a surrendered heart.

[@randyrequilme8814]

Make it clear..did u leave the lds chur ch?

[@ubermormon9611]

@@randyrequilme8814 my records were taken out July 4 of 2020. I LEFT

[@auto137226]

I stopped attending 40+ years ago because it was not a safe space for me as a closeted gay man. I still attended BYU, but was inactive. In those days they didn’t keep track if you went to church. Sadly, I still believed for the next 30 years with basic belief in God and the Mormon narrative of how the world works -preexistence - life as a test - life after death. I was inactive all that time and my family was very unhappy with me. About 10 years ago I found Mormon Stories Podcast and started into therapy. January 1, 2016, I formally resigned my membership and came out to family and work friends. I boiled down my views of the Mormon Church to two problems. 1. Problem with Truth - BoM, Church History, Manipulation of Narrative etc. 2. Problem with Transparency - Finances, Rules and Rule Books, Media Statements vs Private In-Person Statements. I have about 1/4 of my life left and am working on being what I believe to be a good person, surrounding myself with a Family and Community of Choice.

[@ubermormon9611]

Thanks you for sharing. There’s an old quote by Nietzsche that goes something like, “you can only be free if you’ve been a slave”. People like you and me understand what it means to be taken captive mentally. Its a hard thing to give up that much life to a church. Thanks for your comment and please stick around. I’d love to bump into you in the comments.

[@JonathanHerz]

They are pretty welcoming of closeted gay men now, since I was hit on by one when I attended a few sacrament meetings. That's why I didn't sign up - because of the obviously closeted men. So maybe you should go back?

[@Mustardmanor]

I am glad you have chosen to live authentically. I do not believe the LDS church will be safe for LGBT individuals until the church apologizes for its many wrongs towards the community and then actually changes its policies. (Which will likely never happen.)

[@Mustardmanor]

​@cindybin2001 Holy guacamole. You've opened up a can of worms. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigham_Young_University_LGBT_history#:~:text=In%202011%20BYU%20admitted%20to,Wilkinson%20Student%20Center%20since%201964). BYU used electroshock therapy on students for years. From the 1950's to the 1990's. It was well documented. Some of the participants were interviewed. They suffered from PTSD afterwards. I know one of them. A couple committed suicide by jumping to their deaths.

[@Mustardmanor]

@cindybin2001 The 2015 policy which was said to come by revelation was repealed in 2019. This policy which included the denial of baptisms for children of gay couples led to a spike in suicides. (I believe a total of 35.) Well documented. Pride centers also had huge numbers of calls for help. The LDS church fought against gay marriage---which led to the suicide of Stuart Matis. The LDS church taught it was a choice. The LDS church taught it was caused by masturbation. The LDS church taught it was curable. The LDS church taught that marrying someone of the opposite sex would cure the individual.

[@nursedro2373]

Absolutely! Less words=clear thinking. Banning books/ knowledge should make each of us truly pause. If you think it, say it to a loving friend with a mind that seeks truth. Question everything.

[@shellyriley9650]

Your number 2 is spot on! Never thought of it that way. I left 23 yrs ago but still have family deeply entrenched. Seeing videos like this gives me hope so thank you! 🙏🏻🦋🙏🏻

[@geneshifter]

@cindybin2001 I was raised very fundamentalist church of christ and mormonism seems very close to that in a lot of ways. At least in my denomination, I had no free will. I could never question anything or risk severe reprisal. Based on what I hear from ex-mormons, it seems it's pretty close to that especially as people are basically cut off if they leave. For shame.

[@shonamcwilliam4171]

@cindybin2001 Absolutely, but it doesn't need or have to be through a Mormon church. The straw that broke the camels back for me was learning from documented proof in the churches library, that Joseph Smith wanted alcohol in jail to lift their spirits and that he was armed with a pistol and shot at men and that as he was about to die he made the Masonic sign for distress, which calls on Lucifer. Go and research for yourself, then tell me I'm a liar. When you realise you are following a whoremaster, conman who was prepared to kill just before dying, you kinda question your life and Jesus' warning of false doctrine and false prophets. Your life will revolve round the church I know, but run as fast as you can. You know the truth now, Jesus, when you meet won't be happy if you continue worshipping a false idol. God be with you.

[@DRT279]

Deeply entrenched??? That's a stupid way to describe those that believe. I bet in the last 23 years you haven't replace your beliefs with anything. I love how the exmo community constantly needs reassurance that they made the right decision.

[@tripleraze321]

@@DRT279 aww the local child troll I hope. I think there are some amazing Mormons. My neighbors are Mormons and I love them. If the comments I have seen you post on here are reflective at all of your Mormon belief that is a damn shame. You talk nothing like my lovely Mormon neighbors and clearly do absolutely nothing for the image of your church. At best you come across as an angry teenage internet troll.

[@DRT279]

@@tripleraze321 Calling someone’s stupid ideas stupid is right inline with how ppl should react. When ppl lie, whine and play a victim so they can get people like you to feel sorry for them and they make money off you, you should be the one offended by them. Don't be confuse by this guy who is trying to pull at your heart strings to make a buck.

[@PoorStargazer]

For me once the shelf broke, the entire god/religion shelf broke along with it. I was pretty happy with the result. No more yoke, no weight. Just basically a lot more freedom of thought and reduced anxiety (and MORE TIME GOOD GOD). Once I had figured religion was holding me back in so many ways, it made for a pretty easy clean break for me personally.

[@kidslovesatan34]

@cindybin2001 Lol

[@heathermcdougall8023]

@cindybin2001

[@burner27]

​@cindybin2001why are you trying to bring people in who don't believe it's true. IF God exists, Joseph Smith isn't their mouthpiece.

[@Mustardmanor]

@cindybin2001 How is this video anti-Mormon? He is merely explaining his reasons for why he left. He wanted to control what he studied, what he thought and what he said. The LDS church is a high demand religion. The LDS church headquarters has a public relations team and lawyers to help control the narrative of what is said. Why is it that the LDS church didn't want Joseph Smith's treasure seeking to be discussed? Why is it that the LDS church didn't want to discuss translating the Book of Mormon with a seerstone in a hat? Why is it that the LDS church didn't want to talk about Joseph Smith's polygamy? Why he was arrested? Because those things the LDS church denied happened really did happen. It fell outside the faith promoting narrative. Joseph Smith proposed to a 12 year old girl. He married at least one 14 year old. He married women who were married to other men. He was a treasure hunter who took money from people to find buried treasure---of which he found none. Ever. He told stories about the history of the Native Americans long before the Book of Mormon came to be. And it was a commonly held belief that the Native Americans were descendants of the Jews of the middle east. (Do you know about the Mound Builder's myth? If not, you should read about it. It demonstrates a common idea about white supremacy on the frontier---) These topics are now discussed and accepted by the LDS church. They're discussed in the Gospel Topics Essays. However, they don't fit narratives and history as taught by the church. So... a lot of people feel betrayed. The LDS church is not growing in large numbers. In fact, it is losing a huge amount of members.

[@ZachBrimhall]

@cindybin2001 It doesn't mean it is true either.

[@veronicahopelop]

That's super BRAVE! Thank you so much for share your experience! This videos can open eyes to a lot of people! FREE INFORMATION, FREE BEHAVIORS, FREEDOM!

[@ubermormon9611]

I hope you enjoyed it! Thanks for the nice comment!

[@DRT279]

This isn't brave. He would never be brave enough to say this in a testimony meeting. He's not doing anything new, he has a click bait title and nonsense that doubters have been using since the Old Testament.

[@veronicahopelop]

@@DRT279 omg! relax yourself bro, Drink a cup of tea can help you! OH SORRY YOU CAN'T!

[@DRT279]

@@veronicahopelop Sorry I’m right.

[@CTR-ChoseToResign-jw1ct]

Best reason to leave? Because it's a proven fraud.

[@zachbarnes2538]

I spent months working on a list as well and came to a similar conclusion. I realized the people I was writing it for wouldn’t find the same value in it as I did.

[@lesliejentzsch1063]

I resonated with your 3 rules. In my past, a Stake president told me and my wife at the time that we should only read "church authorized material". Joseph Smith was a prolific reader. The comment the stake president made was totally out of line. I left Mormonism a few years back and have had far more spiritual experiences that the entire time I was in Mormonism. Thank you for this video.

[@scottbrandon6244]

Leslie - If you check the list of what was called "anti-mormon material" 20 years ago the majority of that information is now on the church website as gospel truth. And then the gaslighting occurs because people were expected to know these truths 20 years ago when leaders told members they were anti-mormon literature and not to read them.

[@katbos4995]

1970s GC: “To think for oneself is the first step to apostasy.” I never forgot those words!

[@ubermormon9611]

Big oof

[@Mustardmanor]

Any source for this quote? If it is a legitimate quote, I need to have it shared.

[@rogerpreble440]

There were two general conferences in 1970 just like there are every year… Which general conference are you referring to? Which speaker are you referring to and what day of general conference was the speech given… Back up your claim?

[@tripleraze321]

@@Mustardmanor well in the age of the internet I wielded the mighty “control F” function across the entire database of conference talks and even church lesson manuals. No such quote exists however that doesn’t mean someone didn’t say such a message in different words. I did find a quote from Brigham young saying that “the first step of apostasy is to find fault with your bishop” lol.

[@Mustardmanor]

@@tripleraze321 I have found plenty of faults with my bishops in the past...

[@tripleraze321]

You may never read this but I thank you for taking the time to get on here and speak your personal experience. My father asked me why I have concerns with our church. I told him to reflect on a court case for an individual being tried for crimes. “As the jury listens, what does it take to eliminate the certainty of the individuals crimes?” I asked. My father answered “the defense lawyer has to show reasonable doubt.” I then told my dad that he now knows why I have concerns. I reminded him that the lawyer doesn’t even have to prove the individuals innocence. All he has to do is prove there is reasonable doubt. I told him if the jury has any integrity whatsoever they can not convict the individual with certainty in the presence of reasonable doubt. I too have reasonable doubt, and I too have integrity. Its interesting how the Mormon church was born in doubt. Joseph doubted the certainty of the doctrines being taught. He questioned, and that is really one of the most inspirational aspects of the Mormon story, the courage to doubt and ask questions with a desire to better understand. It’s the same courage and faith Mormon missionaries expect of converts, to doubt their own world views and beliefs, so that they can become Mormon. This is applauded as faith, a variation not applauded once you are a member. A type of faith expected of others that members are often unwilling to emulate themselves. I told my dad I have all sorts of questions, I have all sorts of healthy doubts that come from integrity. And my religion calls this faithless, no matter how well meaning the question if it conflicts with the established model. Every meaningful change the Mormon church has experienced came from a leader doubting the certainty of themselves and past leaders. This allowed them to make a change, learn more than they thought they knew, or even remove past doctrines/policies. But if I am to apply the same method of learning I am told I am deceived by the devil, I am acting apostate. I told him that the church is one that was born out of doubt and calls Joseph’s doubt an act of faith, “belief in the absence of certainty.” Yet also teaches that faith is to remain certain, to be unwavering in conviction of certainty. We are expected to be certain of things that could only come by being uncertain. Two versions of faith that ironically can’t co-exist. I said if I can’t express my integrity, if I can’t ask questions, then what meaningful learning am I getting? This alone is a far more substantial doubt of the churches claim of certainty than the other reasonable doubts I have. So long as the church positions itself in certainty, integrity obligates me to reconcile my reasonable doubts if I am to also be so certain.

[@ubermormon9611]

This was beautifully said. Thank you for being here.

[@JaredPalmerVlogs]

Absolutely amazing video this helped me a LOT thank you🙏🙏🙏

[@ubermormon9611]

Happy to help

[@sallygreenfield6991]

As someone who teaches college, I just HAVE to make this point. I agree that we should be encouraging students to write short papers as well. However, when I assign a ten page paper, most of my students write, in ten pages, what I could personally write in one (or less). And I know from experience that assigning one page means they'd do the research that I'd have to do to write less than a paragraph. Part of the learning process in college is #1 getting them to actually do the research, #2 teaching them to use the proper language to communicate their research, and THEN #3 learning how to edit it down to the bare essentials. And most of my students who are undergraduates are still on step 1...hence ten page papers.

[@ubermormon9611]

I wish just one of my professors had said this to me. Thanks for clarifying!

[@daniellamcgee4251]

The hardest thing about Uni was the word count! Not just because when I am tired, I get verbose, and editing is hard work, but because I want to get into the details of a topic, rather than providing a summary.

[@sjmarsing6738]

The reason why I dropped out of college was because of a professor who wanted a 10 page paper due the next day on why history still matters. That was 20 years ago. Best decision I ever made.

[@Joshuamonkey]

This point makes sense, but I still think it's possible to do better. It's better from the very beginning to not encourage fluff and instead to only set standards for the paper that are independent of page count. That requires more thinking and experimentation by both teacher and student, but it's worth it. Students will optimize for what our requirements are so by setting a page limit we encourage their brains to get stuck on that type of thinking, even if we teach otherwise. The same argument applies to hourly work vs salary or value-based pay. It's a common problem, because solving it takes critical thinking and personalization to the current situation.

[@BFDT-4]

1. Study and think about whatever one needs in support of better understanding. No prohibited areas. 2. Speak and converse about whatever one wants to in exploration of the research. 3. Question whatever one wants to better arrive at what is real, not false. Yes? This is a high crime and misdemeanor in the Mormon Mistake and other high demand "religions".

[@ubermormon9611]

Imagine what the world would be like if every looked inward and did this.

[@BensHappinessNetwork]

I appreciate you focusing on this.

[@lisettebordeleau3765]

You're very clever and I do appreciate your definition of enlightenment.

[@hackerj23]

Thanks for your video. As a believer, I agree with your three rules. Sometimes rules don’t always take us to the same places I guess. Good luck to you!

[@rufussweeneymd]

This has to be talked about more. How to not leave a cult for another cult. I’ve seen this happen too many times.

[@joshuathomas5626]

I’d be interested in hearing what your dads reply was to bringing up the point that the podcast speaker would need approval for his words.

[@ubermormon9611]

He agreed with the sentiment but didn’t push back on it. I felt lucky that he was making an effort to connect with me and understand.

[@llcoolwill86]

Great work. The line of thinking about how the languages/epistemologies don't translate is spot on. I also agree with how everyone's "rules" would probably be different according to each person.

[@burner27]

@cindybin2001 stop choosing to be offended by people leaving the cult.

[@llcoolwill86]

@cindybin2001 This is going to sound weird coming from me given the context of this video and comment... but I encourage you to find a way to make and put your content online. I would watch it and applaud your journey just the same as I did for @ubermormon. Reach out or find someone someone you trust to help you overcome the obstacles. I don't expect you to change your mind or change mine, but I bet a big reason why folks like @ubermormon and myself left the church is because we weren't able find how individual members of the church are able to reason through their faith in the contemporary world. That content is not available online. All I had available online was the church leaders perspective and vapid "Light the world" campaigns. If it starts off as you standing against 'all the anti-Mormon videos', so be it. But I bet you'll find an audience that wants to hear and understand how you see it. Don't do it for me, do it for yourself, your friends, loved ones, and the next generation of primary children and youth who have to compare their top down faith with a world that doesn't make sense. I subscribed to your channel and look forward to seeing if you accept my invitation.

[@burner27]

@cindybin2001 well listen to your apostle Bednar and don't choose to be offended. You're super offended that people are leaving this damaging cult, that nobody is listening to you, and that the thought stopping techniques you are employing aren't working.

[@Truthatallcosts777]

Good job on not cowering to the Lds and having the courage to leave👍

[@venlakirahvi]

So well thought-out and expressed. Finding ways to have discussions with people with opposing viewpoints, that should be talked about more. The world is full of groups with opponing opinions, and mostly they just shout at each other with things that will in no way affect the people on the opposing side. How much more progress could we make in the world if we all learned how to discuss this type of difficult topics "with the same language" with opposing groups?

[@ubermormon9611]

That’s exactly what I was trying to do. Thank you for wording it so well.

[@JennLove]

You have a unique and well-articulated approach. Excellent video. Keep ‘em coming!

[@ubermormon9611]

Well-articulated is my middle name:)

[@kathleencurtis4493]

Dr Sir. Just Subbed..I appreciate your approach...Thanks for sharing!

[@andrewtheawesome]

I love this video. My faith deconstruction started because I wanted to live the gospel very intentionally, and because I wanted to know the truth, wherever it would lead me. I quickly realized that I am a doubter and a questioner. Looking back I was following the same rules that you laid out in this video. I think the church’s contrast with these rules was my first significant experience with cognitive dissonance and it allowed me to break down everything else including history, doctrine, church culture, the psychology of spiritual experiences, etc.

[@ubermormon9611]

Thanks for saying this. I think you put it really well.

[@translucentbricksky2086]

Thank you for sharing your story!

[@LeeLee-nx6dc]

Every mormon needs to read the CES letter. It will open your eyes.

[@charlesmendeley9823]

Another source in video format is LDS discussions. It analyzes LDS truth claims topic by topic, from First Vision and Treasure Digging to the Book of Mormon translation process and so on.

[@burner27]

Only if your mind is open though. So many read it with the conclusion the church is true. When i read it with an open mind, The Church was so obviously fake.

[@burner27]

​@cindybin2001fair's debunks are surface level and don't actually debunk anything.

[@mikkifrompreston4396]

@cindybin2001 It’s been debunked? What was one of the lies/misconceptions in the CES letter?

[@beeapprentice2725]

The CES letter is just a bunch of crowd, sourced arguments against the church by people who have never done the work and the research to find out what scholars have spent years studying and publishing for the world on these topics

[@Allthoseopposed]

Rob Terry, is the man who made the podcast episodes you mentioned, sharing all the problematic info and how he chooses to frame them in a faithful context. I actually really appreciate his efforts in sharing his perspectives and process. The thing that I appreciated most was his willingness to admit that that he stays because he feels that the structure, framework and requirements required to live a worthy Mormon life, help him be better than he otherwise would. I don’t believe that that’s true for many of us but I respect his willingness to admit it, and to do what helps him be the best version of himself. The only drawback I can see to that is if someone were to feel that way and project it onto others, believing that they two aren’t capable of being wonderful, moral stellar people without religion.

[@ubermormon9611]

Yes. I am always happy for people who discover more about themselves no matter what they discovery is. I don’t like it when they decide that is actually what is best for everyone else. “Describe, don’t Prescribe.”

[@danielmcmindes5112]

freedome of action, thought, and belief are gifts given to us by god. restrictions on those are simply attempts at human control. just remember that those freedomes also come with responsibility and that includes not to hurt others or push yours on them.

[@garrgravarr]

Great video. You've eloquently articulated some solid principles that anyone can apply regardless of whether they have supernatural beliefs.

[@jordanvarnon4835]

I feel like we go to 2 different churches. Holy moly your reasons are definitely justified

[@ubermormon9611]

Thanks for being in the comments!

[@justins5756]

The way they describe heaven sounds so very worldly.

[@conclavecabal.h0rriphic]

Great video, just subscribed to your channel. Wishing you happiness and fulfillment as you continue your journey.

[@BlakePizzey]

I like where this channel is going! KZbin just fed it to me, love it. I like your tattoo too! Got my first last week..... Ahhhh! Lol

[@ubermormon9611]

I’m happy for you and I hope it’s an incredible tattoo! Please pop into my comments anytime!

[@casterrunner8709]

This popped up on my YT scroll too! Now subscribed!🎉

[@ubermormon9611]

You are all too nice.

[@chandlar.olson1214]

@cindybin2001 I’m gonna get one tattoo per comment you make. So if you comment again, it’s your own fault that I’m giving off a bad impression. 😈😈😈

[@tonybertolino5027]

@cindybin2001 Who are you and why do you keep assuming anyone here has read anything you’ve written over the last 20 years online? And even if they had, why would you be a trusted authority on the subject of tattoos and their acceptance in the modern cultural zeitgeist? Even more, why does it bother you so dearly what others opine on their own social channels? Your assumptions here are very unthoughtful.

[@christopher3d475]

I left the church 30 years ago when I was maybe 22 or so. I'm gay and it was pretty brutal as I had just been through one of those so-called 'reparative therapy' programs the church ran. When i was in the process of trying to leave I went through a lot of very similar things that you describe, mental conditioning we LDS raised folks struggle with. At one point, I was reading A LOT of non-LDS spiritual material I had gotten at various new age type book stores, and mentioned some of it to my dad (who by the way was a CES area director). He told me to compare everything I read to the church sanctioned material and only to believe those 'core doctrine' materials.

[@ubermormon9611]

Wow. I am sorry that all happened to you. I hope you have come out the other side stronger and happier.

[@mariemoulinec3569]

"Ce qui se conçoit bien s’énonce clairement, et les mots pour le dire arrivent aisément" Nicolas Boileau 1674 a French poet. (The quotation you are thinking about at 3.14 minutes?)

[@ubermormon9611]

THANK YOU

[@davidtaylor5189]

I like the way you think. Please forgive me for going school teacher on you, but there is no such word as "anyways." It's "anyway." And it is "by accident," not "on accident." (On purpose, by accident.) You are, otherwise, very articulate and cogent. I hope you would want to know. I would hate for someone to discount what you say, because you have good stuff to share.

[@johngagon]

What hurts in particular was just how much of a safety refuge it was back when I was younger (from bullies that picked on Mormons.) and then it became something in common with the bullies when they started going full prop 8. The church looked helpful at first, trying to bolster me in standing up, being "manly" and also looking like the protector of the "weak". Movies like "Cipher in the Snow" were out at the time. As an adult, this backfires. You have to be yourself and honest with everyone which is a more realistic form of courage and the church became to me something antithetical to it. That problem perseveres into adulthood in practice if staying within church but is only a memory if you disengage it. When under the covers, you discover the other issues it has, the reality hits even harder. It took a good set of years to work out of it in the form of counselling, trial and error.

[@ubermormon9611]

Happy you are putting yourself back together. I am grateful I got to experience all of the ugly because it gives me confidence in where I am now. Here’s to a fun time along the way.

[@scottbrandon6244]

I have often wondered ex-mormons go when they leave the LDS church. Do they go to another church or religion? Those are often high demand religions as well. Do they reject all religion and become atheists?

[@ubermormon9611]

It’s a little of everything Scott. I know that’s not a cool answer but that’s the best I’ve got:)

[@blazedell7561]

It’s a tough call if you still believe in Jesus Christ…I just try to have conversations about Christ as much as possible, can’t really trust another organization. I’m also saddened by those that become atheists.

[@sarahpinho1114]

I like how you say that you wouldn't join any other organization that tries to limit your thoughts and access to information, so why then is it okay in the church. I was born and raised in the church and was active until about age forty, when I made a conscious decision to finally leave, so I had accepted a lot of bad behavior from the church because I'd been told by my parents that it was true. I would never join any organization that does similar things, yet I put up with these behaviors for so long in this church. It's mind boggling to me how much I suffered and years of my life and resources wasted.

[@ubermormon9611]

Thank you for sharing. Il glad you got out.

[@kentthalman4459]

Love rule #1. It's what got me in trouble with Mormonism

[@lukegraven7839]

Good for you. Not easy to leave something like that.

[@Mustardmanor]

I think your reasons make a lot of sense. If we're looking at this solely from the BITE model of cults, there is a lot of manipulation when it comes to what people think, do, say, and study within the LDS church community. If we're told "Don't read such-and-such book! It is full of lies!" I often times want to study that book. The LDS church has only has one trained historian who worked as church historian. Most have been lawyers and such. Not trained historians. Leonard Arrington approached church history as a historian. And got the church into all kinds of hot water. Had the church been honest and open about things from the beginning instead of manipulating history, they wouldn't have to tell members not to study various books and websites.

[@ubermormon9611]

Thanks for the nice words. I thought about including the BITE model, but I’ve heard so many other creators go over it and so I thought I’d leave it alone. Good point about church historians. We need more people like you in the comments section:)

[@Mustardmanor]

@@ubermormon9611 I haven't read much about the BITE model in the past but I know of it---and it makes sense. I know a lot about church history and I am criticized regularly for sharing less flattering portions of church history. The LDS church has even agreed that these things are true---and have published it on the Gospel Topics Essays. But people still say I'm teaching lies. So ridiculous.

[@Mustardmanor]

@@ubermormon9611 Thank you for the compliment about needing more people like me---I know far more about the church than most. Worked for the church for much of my adult life.

[@ubermormon9611]

I’d love you chat sometime over email or a livestream. Reach out anytime. If it’s been a while, go crack open 1984. It’s a fun read in light of all of this.

[@ubermormon9611]

I’d love you chat sometime over email or a livestream. Reach out anytime. If it’s been a while, go crack open 1984. It’s a fun read in light of all of this censorship/BITE model talk.

[@daniellamcgee4251]

This is the first video of yours I have watched. Thumbs up for your self honesty and thinking processes to find greater clarity of what is important to you, which must be especially difficult after being a Mormon. I understand that your incisive work to discover your authenticity, and to live with the integrity of being true to who you are, after being in a control group is both commendable, and vital to you. I would just like to say that your system is about your experience, which is obviously 100% valid,, however politically correct terminology is about other people's experiences and values, which are no less valid than your own. Politically correct terminology is not about dictating speech, it's about being respectful and considerate of others. We can expect that many things will not make sense to us, because we have different life experiences. It is a common courtesy to listen to others' preferences for terminology, and respect them. This shouldn't be too difficult if you have the integrity to treat others with consideration and respect, too.

[@sallygreenfield6991]

I have to agree. This video shows growth for him, but is highly problematic on a number of levels...for one, speaking as an authority on "people leaving cults" as if his one, singular experience is indicative of what others go through in any number of institutions. It isn't.

[@daniellamcgee4251]

@@sallygreenfield6991 Yes, that was my perspective, too. I haven't been in a cult, but I know what it is to miss out on the 'mirroring' needed to develop a strong sense of self. Children being solipsistic is a natural stage of identity forming development. Some people who missed out on that development as children need to go through that phase as adults, before being able to be more receptive and understanding of others.

[@daniellamcgee4251]

@cindybin2001 Yes, because , as a Mormon, you are taught what to believe, think, feel, value, and how to act. This means you have to disconnect from yourself in the process. You aren't able to explore your own inner, or outer world, and discover who you are, and what is meaningful to you personally.

[@daniellamcgee4251]

@cindybin2001 I don't drink coffee, or alcohol, or smoke cigarettes, or take recreational drug, etc.. Some of my friends that aren't into any of those things, either. I am an atheist, and don't need a religion to make my life choices, or provide reasons for them, or to support my life choices. It makes no sense to me why you would want to join a religious group to support your life choices. What I know about Mormons is that they have many similarities to JWs, and people experience the same post cult trauma on leaving. When I was 17 years old I was friends with some lovely Mormons in my classes. I went to their home, one time, to watch one of the Mormon films. They had been raised Mormon. I hadn't, and I was incredulous that highly intelligent people could believe sci-fi as fact, and that was foundational to their religious beliefs. Beliefs that obviously dominated every aspect of their lives.

[@daniellamcgee4251]

@cindybin2001 I guess you aren't aware of all the troubles behind the Osmond's shiny bright smiles. You seem to have believed that the highly polished performance of professional public entertainers was real. As a child, I found the Osmonds deeply frightening. They seemed fake and buttoned in, like programmed robots. It was my version of a horror show. I like people to behave as fully human. Each person believes they have the One Truth, religious or not, otherwise they wouldn't believe it. None of the religious people have any proof to back up their bold claim. Just as with the newer religions, such as JWs and Scientology,, the origins of the Mormon faith is both a huge red flag as obviously a contrived fraud, and deeply disturbing. It is obviously your prerogative to believe it, but it is difficult for me to 'unknow' that it ticks the boxes of a definition of a cult, and that is not positive.

[@catrardellybird2526]

God, you know how hard it is to adapt to normal society after leaving the church? Jesus, relationships aren't just straight forward anymore. So many things I have to learn. I'm thankful to have friends.

[@randinboise]

Mark Twain wrote: I'm sorry I didn't have time to write a short letter. Exactly what you were saying.

[@ubermormon9611]

That’s a great quote!

[@GarySaint-xm6tr]

Robert Turners experience was very much my experience, question everything, but learn about it and pray. That is the official teaching on the church. The way people filter information is very different. My wife, for example will completely hear things differently than what I just said. I think you may be experience the same thing. It would be good to have had member friends that communicate the way you understand. . Neither good nor bad just people filter things differently. That's all. Thanks for the be your best self comment

[@vejaprfofitt2155]

It is more for me what Heavenly Father wants me to say, read, or think I care about. Whether I am a member of the church is if it is the same.

[@mjbongon]

There is no perfect religion in the world, it depends on how you understand and live your faith. For those who can't accept the Book of Mormon, read the bible, pray and ask sincerely for you to get your deserved asnwers.

[@danvan2683]

It's a strange experience realizing your integrity has transcended the group you've been in, obviously I'm gonna think and read what appeals to my own interests.

[@janet-Spirit_of_the_Living_God]

I love your simple 3 rules. So true, and I'm still a Bible Christian, but it's not controlling as it's only between God's love, Jesus' salvation, and the Holy Spirit's giftings and empowering of me to live like Jesus.

[@TheGrmany69]

4:44 This is what "A Mathematician's Lament" is all about, but in terms of maths. Utterly recommended book.

[@ubermormon9611]

Added it to my list:) thanks for the recommendation.

[@bouji_]

2:52 Brevity is the soul of wit.

[@dleeflang2292]

Chain of events please… my same pattern

[@jeffwilson4693]

"I think I have learned the Gospel so as to know, that in and of myself I am nothing." (Brigham Young)

[@ammalyrical5646]

Do you know of the BITE model for cults? All your rules fall into one or several of the categories (B: behaviour control, I: information control, T: thought control, E: emotional control). This just showcases how those categories are linked. I saw two people on YT go through the whole model for LDS and Jehova's Witnesses. It was pretty interesting and enlightening about why people who leave tend to feel so strongly but also why shunning happens. I'm so glad I grew up with the freedom to just not believe in religion in the first place even if I did grow up in a Christian environment. Around age 9 I started wondering about things and at age 10 I realised how messed up the bible is and how weird it is we're supposed to believe these stories happened. Stories about war and slavery I didn't agree with were portrayed as something good by the authors and a moral guide to follow. In the end I came to the conclusion I never believed but I really, really tried because I think you can't really believe in something if you don't understand what you're believing in. And I was also encouraged to question science. Which was a very valuable thing to learn. Nothing is known with 100% certainty, there's always a chance the findings were coincidental no matter how small. Same for there being many correlations that are no causations. Or the idea that the embryological argument is a strong argument for evolution. It was still taught to me in school even though I heard it was taken out of a quite a few textbooks a couple of years later. And we had old textbooks (I think they were 10 years old by then) as it was. Plus the whole point of science is to be questioned. There's a reason the questions have to be falsifiable.

[@TheGrmany69]

Hahaha this is also the blue print for narcissistic nests (AKA N-families).

[@burner27]

​@cindybin2001tries to debunk the bite model by advocating information control.

[@burner27]

@cindybin2001 I was born and raised in the Mormon church and I know more about race and the church than you on account of having lived it. Truth has an anti Mormon bias. The church admits all of these "anti Mormon lies" in the gospel topics essays. Joseph smith was an obvious fraud.

[@burner27]

@cindybin2001 you're so funny. I get it. If you think the church tells you the truth when it's easily provable that they lied, you're falling victim to information control

[@scottbrandon6244]

I find the BITE model of cults has a checklist that almost every religion of Christian church falls into. I guess there are extremes for cult criteria like XVIM, Branch Davidians, or Moonies.

[@bgardunia]

I listened to that podcast too. It didn’t help me remain faithful

[@michaellines2063]

Please check out Jonathan Streeter's S.T.E.E.L. tools vs. W.O.O.D. tools. Also as mentioned by others the B.I.T.E. model.

[@rustigreizenaub9249]

🎭🎭🎭

[@ernestcook4285]

Thanks for sharing, your thoughts and reasons are yours and in no way does it affect Jesus love for you or his sacrifice for you. My advise to people, question everything and every word. Scriptures tell you confirm for your self. So why wouldnt a person not question everything said. There is a class of people who seam to think there is something wrong with you if you dont have your nose in the sheeps behind in front of you.

[@ZachBrimhall]

Excellent well thought out points with your epistemological approach. I agree. For me, The LDS Church has proven that it is more worried about secular acceptance than being actually let by a prophet and I doubt that there ever was a prophet with Joseph Smith in the first place. Also, I just can't get over the gold plates being taken by an angel excuse. If you question that then you are looked at as someone that has no faith. It's an argument that does not hold up whatsoever. As for Jesus, I believe he was a very special and important man but my issue is the resurrection of Jesus. Those two issues are what have pretty much made me step back from religion, Jesus' resurrection and specifically regarding Mormonism the gold plates disappearance by an angel.

[@ZachBrimhall]

@cindybin2001 Apologies but I did not read your comments. I typically do not base my comment on other comments. Rather, I post my comment, based on my thoughts not others, then I will read other comments after. Happy to read your comments now. Let me ask you a question, Where are the gold plates Joseph Smith JR claimed to translate and why did he even need the gold plates if he never actually looked at them to "translate" rather just looking at a rock with his face in a hat? Thanks for your time.

[@ZachBrimhall]

@cindybin2001 Are you serious? What planet are you from? Are you a parody account? Why would I ever trust FAIR? A totally bias organization funded by the church. As for LDS Missionaries? 🤣 Yeah, 19 year olds know all the answers. They don't even know that there are 3 versions of the JS first vision. Or that JS used a rock in a hat. Or that JS married young girls, 2 of which were merely 13 and didn't tell his wife.

[@danthedoozy9472]

Cults and religion are on the same spectrum; they only vary in terms of intensity. Apply the same critical thinking to all religion and you will soon abandon the idea altogether.

[@ubermormon9611]

I think that is well said.

[@hlnbee]

The answers are inside you.

[@kerstinklenovsky239]

The mark of a cult, or of a totalitarian structure for that matter os that those inside the bubble are not allowed to do their own thinking nor voice their doubt and criticism.

[@PoorStargazer]

@cindybin2001 you're encouraged to do your own thinking so long as you reach the approved conclusions

[@ubermormon9611]

Cindy I’m happy that you haven’t felt censored or like you can’t have your own thoughts in your many years as a Mormon because some of us have. We are all bonding over a shared experience. Please don’t tell us that the church isn’t like that because you didn’t experience it that way. Please do your best see where we are coming from before telling us that we are seeing it all wrong.

[@michaellines2063]

Yes, Please go to FAIR and then THINK about their logic (or lack thereof).

[@scottbrandon6244]

Most religions are not too big on criticism by its members or rational thinking.

[@sarahcunniffe4678]

In my profession, there are rules (with consequences) about what I'm allowed to say and behave outside work in public.

[@ubermormon9611]

Are there lines you wouldn’t be be willing to cross because of your own moral compass? Edit: granmer

[@GabIsCalm]

Ce que l'on conçoit bien s’énonce clairement, Et les mots pour le dire arrivent aisément Nicolas Boileau 1702 Whatever is well conceived is clearly said, And the words to say it flow with ease.

[@outof_obscurity]

a quick Google search of cult says "a misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular person or thing." and "a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object." Every Christian church meets weekly in remeberance of Jesus Resurrection. Every Christian church gathers to partake of the communion in memory of Jesus Body and Blood. So yes, the church of Jesus Christ of latter-day saints is a cult like every Christian church.

[@ubermormon9611]

You might have beat me to this but look into the BITE model. I ignored covering it in their video but it is a helpful resource. Jon Streeter has done a lot of work on it. With his website isitculty.com

[@outof_obscurity]

@@ubermormon9611 I'll read it, but no matter how you candy coat a turd it's still a turd. Every Christian denomination fits the definitions I mentioned above.

[@tina37425]

I 100% agree I left for good at age 12 and I never had beliefs since in childhood either its hocus-pocus garbage for the brain and its also imbaresing in the public eye

[@gregdiamond6023]

I think God exists. There’s no one *true* religion that gGod favors. I pray to God and Jesus but don’t go to any church or subscribe to any religion. I would like to see you on Cults to Conscience, Shelise Ann Sola's channel. She's an e if we didn’t, ex mo too and I think it would be a great interview.

[@ubermormon9611]

I’d love to chat with her thanks for the recommendation!

[@jamestrek2570]

@cindybin2001 which first vision account are you referring to?. The one written by Joseph Smith himself said he only saw one personage. There’s at least 9 different versions of the first vision. The very first one written by Joseph wasn’t documented until 12 years after the vision. Hard to say which account is accurate.

[@burner27]

@cindybin2001 and they cover up child sex abuse.

[@burner27]

@cindybin2001 fair Mormon is intellectually dishonest.

[@burner27]

@cindybin2001 also, the gospel topics essays are produced by the church but you label them anti Mormon.

[@diegognzalz]

thought this was ewan mcgregor

[@ubermormon9611]

How do you know it isn’t?

[@diegognzalz]

@@ubermormon9611 omg hey you were great in doctor sleep

[@PoorStargazer]

@@diegognzalz it's over Diego, he has the high ground!

[@ubermormon9611]

@cindybin2001 we were trying to have fun in here.

[@kareemhetaraka-brown1259]

I read the Book of Mormon last year. I loved it!! This makes me want to read it again. Thanks 🙏

[@ubermormon9611]

I’m happy for you

[@vernellguillory2959]

Rules start at 3:30

[@ubermormon9611]

Thank you

[@thuggie1]

I just left just because I wanted to feel happy

[@ubermormon9611]

That’s a great reason!

[@darrylkirky]

kzbin.info/aero/PLxDt4R7Ocz2lR9pmHEeqsNO33kja3yI2P&si=FMz8PGf8Ri9r0v-8

[@krisfisher8274]

I love all my Ex-mos! ❤!

[@schmuelking1535]

Nihilism isn't necessarily BAD :) I am happy in my existential nihilism. It helps me be my best self

[@ubermormon9611]

I feel like a little Nihilism can be freeing. What do you like about it?

[@schmuelking1535]

@@ubermormon9611 it helps me live for now and "this lifetime" rather than a future lifetime that will not eventuate.

[@matthewphillips3926]

“Shorter the better” proceeds to ramble lol ❤

[@ubermormon9611]

This will be my downfall

[@orl477]

The holy spirit will clarify any question you might have.

[@stephencampbell8332]

I'm an atheist which means I don't believe in heaven, it also means I don't believe in hell. I'm content and living a pretty good life. No Catholic or religious guilt....Life is good.

[@ChowderTIO]

Nobody wants to read a list. In Mormonism, it’s largely about feelings which are unaffected by any list. Think of love, you don’t need a list to say what it is or isn’t, but you know when you feel it.

[@krismurphy7711]

#1 AMEN!!!! I WAS TOLD TO BE A LAZY LEARNER...AND I OBEYED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@ubermormon9611]

I’m sure god has “blessed” for your “faithfulness”.

[@krismurphy7711]

@@ubermormon9611 “Yes” I was “blessed” for about 30 more years in The Church.

[@danreich4320]

Reason #1: it’s not true Reason #2: it’s not true Reason #3: it’s not true Those are my 3 reasons.

[@Greg-McIver]

I had issues and was not active in the Church for a while. It's a long story but I do learn from all sources, question everything, and do not accept blindly what people say (including those in authority). I have my relationship with God our Father and Jesus Christ. Love is the primary directive. Mistakes of men are on all levels. I had a vivid almost tangible dream along the way that I was in a room like a cave. The walls, ceiling and floor were pure gold. On one of the walls was a lever on an old-style switch. I tried using it, but it didn't work. I was bothered that it didn't work. After the dream, I realized I had been focusing on what wasn't working in the golden room and didn't explore any other potentials. Over time, I was able to see the amazing things Joseph Smith the prophet restored and understand better the rest in the Church. I am active in the Church and appreciate the golden opportunities to love and serve others. I do not accept anything blindly from any person, no matter what their position is. I live according to the dictates of my own conscience. I hope someday the many issues can be resolved for you.

[@ubermormon9611]

Thank you for the kind words. I would say that these issues have been resolved for me outside of the church. I’m happy that you feel you are where you belong.

[@ubermormon9611]

Thank you for the kind words. I would say that these issues have been resolved for me outside of the church. I’m happy that you feel you are where you belong. Also what a cool/interesting dream.

[@Greg-McIver]

@@ubermormon9611 You're welcome. I'm sure you'll keep seeking truth. It's all an individual journey. It ain't over til it's over and then it's not over, just another phase.

[@rogermetzger7335]

"Most people who think they have rejected God have really only rejected a caricature of him." - Rich Hannon A suggestion if I may: If you have decided that a particular organization is not "the church", please do a study of how the word, "church" is used in the most popular religious writings of your particular culture and, on the basis of that study, develop your own working definition of "the church". My sense is that, if you will do that and then go back and study how you have used the phrase, "the church" after leaving the organization of your former affiliation, you will cringe at some of the ways you previously used that phrase.

[@ubermormon9611]

Watch my atheism vs theism video. I try hard not to straw man the argument for God.

[@MrBillmechanic]

those are my rules also

[@charliecharlie7898]

As a family member of Mormon Pioneers, who left the church, in the 1800s, I had a great curiosity about researching Mormonism and if it was right for me. My Great Grandfather David Moroni C., and whom I'm named after, is the one who left the church and his parents are buried in Ogden, Utah. I was raised in the Church of God, starting at the age of 12. I recently came across a video, on KZbin, that has been the greatest eyeopener to why I, or anyone else for that matter, should never, ever think of joining this organization. It is titled: The Mormons: Who They Are, What They Believe (2015) Full Movie. The last half hour of this video, was so riveting, that at its conclusion, I fell to my knees in tears and asked Jesus Christ for my forgiveness.

[@sulas548]

While I commend you for not joining the Mormons I would be curious to know 'why' you are are a Christian. Would you be kind enough to explain to me the exact method that you personally used to verify that any of the supernatural claims from Christianity have any actual truth to them?

[@monkeyspank3005]

@@sulas548 the plagues of Egypt can be proven, the dead sea scrolls indicate the parting of the red sea, and there's a program you can use to go back into time to look at the stars and if you go back to the birth of Christ you'll see the stars lined up exactly the way the three kings mentioned in the Bible.

[@sulas548]

@@monkeyspank3005 Can you tell me the method you used to assert that the plagues can be proven? The dead sea scrolls were written around 100 BC and the Moses myth around 1300 BC so how can they be used as confirmation? About 400 years 'before' the alleged exodus there was a massive volcano that destroyed most of the Greek island of Santorini. That event can explain most of the so called plagues. I can go into detail if you want, or just look it up yourself. It also caused a Tsunami that would have caused the sea to recede along the coast of Egypt and then flow back at high speed killing everyone that had ventured out to see what was going on. The Bible reference to the 'Red Sea' is a mistranslation of 'Reed Sea' which is in the Mediterranean. This event was at roughly the same time as a group of people called the Hyksos were thrown out of Egypt and headed in an exodus towards what is now Israel, along the way they destroyed the town now referred to as Jerico. Since there is not one shred of evidence for 2 million Israelite slaves ever being in Egypt or living in the desert for 40 years and the town of Jericho was uninhabited in 1300 BC then it is easy to see how the person that wrote the Moses myth was just using older known stories from Santorini and the Hyksos and wove it into his story. A small truth leading to a big lie. Did the stars align when Jesus was born or did dishonest writers just put his birth at the time of the alignment? Think about that. None of the birth stories were written in the first Gospel which was Mark. Why was that? So a question for you; How did you personally establish that the supernatural claims in the NT were not just made up by dishonest writers? Specifically the resurrection, because without that being verified then your entire religion is invalid. If you are unable to answer then we can conclude that there is no truth to your claims.

[@monkeyspank3005]

@@sulas548 well you just explained scientifically why those events from moses happened. No need to go further into detail since you pretty much did the work for me. However since you're curious about the resurrection specifically, the cave that Jesus ascended from on the road to Damascus was found, exactly how it was described. His body was supposed to be in that cave but only rags of white were seen. And we'll if they did make up the event of the stars then they were pretty accurate seeing how the stars did align as they said. Just because it's not included in some books doesn't mean it didn't happen at all. For example John saw more than Paul did yet Paul wrote the majority of the new testament. Each book was a reference to their point of view, what they saw and recorded. Which is why some are different than the others. Ultimately though it all comes down to faith, I can point you to the right direction but you have to have faith it'll lead you where you want to go. If you can scientifically explain why in dreams do we have visions of an image of Jesus guiding us to the right path? We wake up and realize something and it all just clicks. Or having a conscious? That little voice inside your head reading this right now, is it yourself talking or God? Once you realize YOU are God in your own life then you'll understand what the teachings of Jesus truly meant. You want to live longer? Follow the commandments their designed to keep you alive. That's why Moses lived to be 800. Once you realize you can become godlike you'll understand what Jesus was saying, "the one true God is the father almighty maker of heaven and earth of all that is seen and unseen". Meaning there will always be something greater than ourselves no matter how far we climb. Since you're a man of science and facts I'll let you in on a little theory I have, at the end of the observable universe lies a place called "the Helix nebula" or as it's Nicknamed "the eye of God". My theory is that's actually yourself looking at yourself back in time as an enlightened being. That's why there are many God's because we all are capable of becoming God like. If you want the facts for that just look at technology what we've done. We're able to now use nanotechnology to make artificial limbs that will help fight off any diseases we may have. We have tools to help us destroy mountains, we have tools to fly, to breathe underwater, to go into outer space. We can become godlike. That's what Jesus' story represented, I can't force you to believe in something you don't want to believe in. So if you believe once we die that's it then that's fine that's what you believe however I'm alive today because I gave all I had to God, I'm a live testament to what happens when you ignore man and trust in God because according to man I'm supposed to be dead.

[@sulas548]

@@monkeyspank3005 I explained that the Moses story was made up based on an older story, which part of that did you not understand? How does the location of a cave tomb prove a resurrection. I have been to Kings cross station in London, does that mean that the train to Hogwarts leaves from there? Everything else is "for the bible tells me so" 🎵 🎶 So here is a question for you, it is a bit long but please take the time to read and absorb as failure to give an answer will invalidate your entire position. If we select fifty Holy Books including the Bible where all the supernatural events 'contradict' EACH OTHER then we can only come to two logical conclusions. 1. All fifty books are fake and not one of them represents reality.( The most logical conclusion) or; 2. Forty nine are fake and one is true. Now that we have established that at 'least' forty nine (if not all fifty) are fake we have to then logically conclude that the authors of the 'fake' books were either; A. Delusional or genuinely mistaken and wrote what they did, genuinely believing that it was true, even though it was in fact 'not true', or; B. They were just dishonest and knew that what they wrote was not true but they wrote it anyway. C. Or most likely a combination of A&B There is no other explanation. We also know that the faithful believers, like yourself, from each and every book will claim with utter certainty that 'their' book is the 'true' book because it says in 'their' book that it is true, or words to that effect. "My book is true because my book says it is true" A circular argument which again must be invalid for at least 49 if not all 50 books and the book's followers. Since ALL religious people say "my book is true because it says in 'my' book that it is true" then why would you think that this is a reliable method of ascertaining whether 'your' book is actually factually and objectively true or not? I assume that you reject all the other books that contradict 'your' book as being fake. Now I will hazard a guess that right now you are thinking that of course it is the Bible that is true. Now I assume that 'you' were born into a society and a small window in time where the majority believe in the the Bible. It is of course clearly evident that most people born in Saudi Arabia will grow up to believe the Quran is true, so 'which' book you believe in is more dependent on the location of your birth than the actual veracity of the book itself. So here is the question; Could you tell me the exact method that 'you personally' used to establish as an undeniable fact that the Bible was NOT written by delusional, mistaken or dishonest writers just like ALL the other Holy books? Please don't quote from the Bible itself as I have just clearly demonstrated that this is not a reliable method of ascertaining if any given book is 'actually' true or not. You will need some empirical outside evidence to back up your claim. Why do you think that the book of your particular society is, by some lucky coincidence, the 'correct' one? A rather convenient coincidence don't you think? It is objectively true that people write fake holy books and have done so in the thousands throughout history, so why on earth would 'you' believe that the book that you have ( most probably) been exposed to as a child is true when all the others are clearly not true? I actually wrote this for a Muslim that I was chatting with who insists that, 'his' book is true because it says so in the book, and I just replaced the word 'Quran' with 'Bible', as it is equally relevant to both of you. If you do not have a rational answer then we can conclude that 'your' book is a fake just like ALL the others and that your faith is misguided.

[@rogervaldez-vi5hq]

Only 1 reason about any thing G O D , love god

[@DJFoodTravel]

I appreciate this channel and many of its videos. Certainly understand the struggle many have faced and the hurts inflicted by institutional churches and dead religion. @TeacherInZion podcast is a podcast for Christians, Mormons, ex-Mormons, other Book of Mormon believers, or anyone questioning their faith or the Church, with an emphasis on seeking the truth, wherever it leads, but especially in gaining a closer relationship with Jesus Christ.

[@burner27]

Cindy's copy-pasta missionary efforts/white nationalist evangelism is very entertaining.

[@jhonalfonsosia4224]

This is what the difference between the US members especially in Utah and those that live outside the states. I’m from Asia and all my life it’s been very rough and difficult but truly the gospel of Jesus Christ has taught me so many things in life and taught me principles that blessed me, my family and those around me. I or us focus more on the gospel of what it truly does to individuals and families. The church has never been always easy but the doctrine and principles is amazing. I have witnessed many people in my country how the church or gospel have help them in so many ways. Don’t blame everything to the church or leaders , they are not perfect and I’m not saying that all their mistakes are justified. Everything will make sense the next life . I am a believer and even though I’m not that super active in the church, I treasure the moments and still practice the principles they taught me. ( remember Lehi’s dream, many people partook of the fruit but then they decided to join the large and spacious building.)

[@ubermormon9611]

I can only tell you what I know about the two places I have really spent time in the church; Utah and Peru. It was my impression the the things the church taught in both locations were essentially identical( down to what lesson was being taught that week). The culture of both places were very different. Being Mormon in Utah is just a different experience and it didn’t go well for me. I think the church in Peru had problems too, just different problems. You’ll notice my list of reasons aren’t doctrinal, they are cultural. Where do you currently live? If the church is working for you where you are you should stay in it!

[@jeremyarrieta6869]

thanks for sharing your personal experience. hope after this life you will no regret anything. but you are welcome anytime.

[@ubermormon9611]

I don’t think I will have the ability to regret things after this life. Obviously no one can know for sure, but it doesn’t seem likely to me.

[@jeremyarrieta6869]

@@ubermormon9611 thanks for responding so fast. i do have one question is mind. if the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is not a true Church of Jesus Christ, which one is it? Because, sadly people are living the church but ending up having no religion at all or even worst not believing in Christ and God at all. will you please address my inquiry. thank man!

[@seanrathmakedisciples1508]

I was born a Roman Catholic and was very active for 36 years. I’m now a disciple of the Lord Jesus Christ and making other disciples of the Lord Jesus Christ. Most of my family and friends are still Roman Catholic. For freedom Christ has set us free. I’ve subscribed to your KZbin channel. 95% of Catholics are not really believers but church Goers

[@jasonjohnson2767]

Jacob 2 2 Now, my [my fellow Latter-day Saints], according to the responsibility which I am under to God, to magnify mine office [as a watchman upon the tower] with soberness, and that I might rid my garments of your sins, I might declare unto you the word of God. 6 Yea, it grieveth my soul and causeth me to shrink with shame before the presence of my Maker, that I must testify unto you concerning the wickedness of your hearts. 7 And also it grieveth me that I must use so much boldness of speech concerning you, before your wives and your children, many of whose feelings are exceedingly tender and chaste and delicate before God, which thing is pleasing unto God; **Isaiah 3** 13 The Lord standeth up to plead, and standeth to judge the [Latter-day Saints] 14 The Lord will enter into judgment with the ancients of his people and the princes thereof; for [the Saints of God] have eaten up the vineyard and the spoil of the poor in your houses. 15 What mean ye? Ye beat my people to pieces, and grind the faces of the poor [humble followers of Christ] , saith the Lord God of Hosts. Luke 16: 19 ¶ There was **a certain rich man** [priesrcrafter], which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day**: 20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus [humble follower of Christ], which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the [priesrcrafter’s] table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 And it came to pass, that [the humble follower of Christ] died, and was carried by the angels [Church of the Firstborn] into Abraham’s bosom: the [priesrcrafter] also died, and was buried; 23 And **in hell he [the priesrcrafter] lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom**. 24 And he cried and said, **Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.** 25 But Abraham said, **Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receiveth thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.** 26 And beside all this, between [the Church of the Firstborn] and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. 27 Then [the priesrcrafter] said, **I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house:** 28 **For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.** Then this exchange will play out in our day. If we won't hear the prophets and repent! Why then, would we hear the word from the resurrected being. 29 Abraham saith unto him [Lds priesrcrafter], **They have [Joseph] and the prophets; let [the Latter-day Saints] hear them.** 30 And he [LDS,priestcrafterer] said, **Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.** 31 And he said unto him, **If they hear not [Joseph Smith] and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though [Joseph Smith] rose from the dead.** “If only the [LDS, practitioner of priestcraft,] could have seen beyond the grave, he might have started praying sooner; but only in hell [will] he become a praying man.” (Hugh W. Pinnock - Beginning Again 1982) “Many [priesrcrafter] will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? And in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? (Matt. 7:22) “And then will I[the Lord] profess unto them [Latter-day Saints priestcrafters], I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”

[@allanlopez3850]

you maybe read a book that has a deep doctrine that's why you left the church

[@ubermormon9611]

I bet it’s the reason I told you in the video:)

[@darrylkirky]

kzbin.info/aero/PLxDt4R7Ocz2lR9pmHEeqsNO33kja3yI2P&si=FMz8PGf8Ri9r0v-8

[@fredlarge8209]

Ad Hominem is always a good way to start a critique. The church has a long history of terrible behavior, past and present. To say otherwise is not being honest, IMHO.

[@GuyRegular]

The level of atheism throughout the rest of the developed world refutes any argument that religion is somehow a moral necessity, Countries like Norway, Iceland, Australia, Canada, Sweden, Switzerland, Belgium, Japan, the Netherlands, Denmark and the United Kingdom are among the least religious societies on Earth. According to the United Nations’ Human Development Report (2005) they are also the healthiest, as indicated by measures of life expectancy, adult literacy, per capita income, educational attainment, gender equality, homicide rate and infant mortality. Conversely, the 50 nations now ranked lowest in terms of human development are unwaveringly religious. Other analyses paint the same picture: The United States is unique among wealthy democracies in its level of religious literalism and opposition to evolutionary theory; it is also uniquely beleaguered by high rates of homicide, abortion, teen pregnancy, STD infection and infant mortality. The same comparison holds true within the United States itself: Southern and Midwestern states, characterized by the highest levels of religious superstition and hostility to evolutionary theory, are especially plagued by the above indicators of societal dysfunction, while the comparatively secular states of the Northeast conform to European norms. Of course, correlational data of this sort do not resolve questions of causality--belief in God may lead to societal dysfunction; societal dysfunction may foster a belief in God; each factor may enable the other; or both may spring from some deeper source of mischief. Leaving aside the issue of cause and effect, these facts prove that atheism is perfectly compatible with the basic aspirations of a civil society; they also prove, conclusively, that religious faith does nothing to ensure a society’s health.

[@darcyharefeld211]

Well I tried listening to you for about 5 minutes and it was extremely hard to find anything you said interesting enough to make me keep going.

[@yijumiller5659]

What the church does is called cancel culture... It is not new...