Why I Left

[@personofinterest8731]

I was also all in for 30 years, having married a Mormon and converted. I had many questions which were never answered, my temple experience didn't bring me beauty or peace - quite the opposite - and I ended up ordering a pile of books from Amazon. Bushman, Mason, Quinn, Palmer, Vogel, Brodie. I found the polygamy thing, read D&C 132 properly, found the Adam Clarke commentary, The Late War, read everything historical, first vision accounts, women's journals. Turns out nobody in the church read any of that, believing everything was anti-mormon literature! Prop 8 came and I was getting fed up with the anti-gay, anti-dark-skin comments in my community and from the pulpit and at the age of 70 and widowed, I resigned. It wasn't easy but here I am, free at last! Love to all the new (and old!) free-thinkers who had the guts to get out. May you feel light and happy. Have a great Christmas everyone! ❤🎉🎄 Thank you dear bishop!

[@Nicetry-427]

Thank you for sharing a part of your story. I appreciate it.

[@lynnerobyn]

Wow!

[@GuyRegular]

@@personofinterest8731 The Mormon church is a very vast and complex fraud and the average Mormon will quite likely never be able to figure it all out, it takes a lot of research to uncover this information and analyze it, but it's a lot easier to keep believing because believing is much easier than thinking

[@JohnDLee-im4lo]

"all in"?/ I think not. 3 decades as a poser in the church. You're right about one thing: we are "free at last" of your presence!

[@Nicetry-427]

@@JohnDLee-im4lo I’m often curious when I read a reply like yours. I ask this in all seriousness and respect. As a never LDS member, it is my understanding that a Bishop is called upon as a direct calling by God himself given to an authority. If that is the case, how can you not ask yourself how it is the LDS god cannot identify someone as a, as you put it “poser?” Wouldn’t he be able to identify someone and not call them to be a bishop? Or for that matter, wouldn’t he be able to do the same with people in higher positions who have left the church?

[@Mikleray]

If only I could've had this information 55 years ago.

[@Thebishopsinterview]

I feel this

[@randyjordan5521]

A lot of it's been on the internet for 25-30 years now.

[@Mikleray]

@randyjordan5521 I needed the information at a young age.I was a programmed TBM .

[@krakenfan6818]

@@randyjordan5521 but not on the church website before the Gospel Topics Essays.

[@sandrachanin2326]

Ex-Mormon here who found the love of Jesus outside the LDS church and I pray that you did too for you and your family. Thank you for sharing your life experience and the truth about the church. All of those reasons are the same for me, plus many more. Jesus is enough.

[@GodJesusChristlovesyou_knows_u]

Amen♥♥

[@hubbsangel]

I got chills when I read your comment!

[@Cotonpuppy]

What you say is true Sandra. Chills here too. I was in the LDS church for half a century. Now Jesus Christ is my everything. 2 Corinthians 11:4. I hope Nathan keeps sharing the truth. "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6

[@JohnDLee-im4lo]

Thanks for leaving so we didn't have to throw you out.

[@sandrachanin2326]

@@JohnDLee-im4lo , I know how hard it can be to hear stuff about your faith you just don’t want to believe so you attack the people that are sharing their own experiences about their own faith journey. Jesus is enough and I hope you come to understand this for yourself too. Truth should be able to stand up against investigation. Otherwise the truth is Jesus is not enough.

[@barryrichins]

Now 83 years old, I resigned my membership in the Mormon church eight years ago. You have mentioned in another podcast that you suffered mental problems as a result of your Mormon experience. Sixty-two years ago, while on my mission in Mexico, I suffered a breakdown. As a direct result of the trauma, I have suffered from PTSD for the same amount of time. During my life I have lived in three countries, visited 15 countries, and set foot on four continents. I have learned a great deal about Roman civilization from living in Europe, I have visited almost every major pre-Colombian archaeological site in Mexico. And I have been to some mound sites in the Midwest. I have studied the history of Mexico on site, including pre-Colombian sites. Also, I have become a scholar about Book of Mormon history as well as that of the Old and New testaments. I mention my Mormon-related mental health journey on Mormonism Live, episode 54, and I compare what I know about Roman civilization in Europe with my understanding of the so-called "Lehite" civilization in the Americas. Supposedly, both civilizations were contemporaneous. You can find the comparison on The Backyard Professor, episode 125. I suggest them to you simply for your information, hoping to share some of my insight from my life experience.

[@certainlyitis]

Kudos for being 75 when you resigned - That's my mom's age and I've all but resigned myself to the idea that she will never not be active - but your story keeps a small glimmer of hope alive.

[@randyjordan5521]

That's an analogy I have used in discussing the Book of Mormon's authenticity problems many times over the years. The Romans invaded Britain in 43 AD. They built roads, aqueducts, baths, and many other edifices which still stand today. Ancient Roman coins are still being unearthed in Britain today. There are many thousands of descendants of those Romans living in Britain today. By contrast, there is ZERO evidence of the "Book of Mormon people" anywhere in the Americas. And there is no DNA evidence which shows that Hebrew/Semites entered native American populations before Columbus.

[@harlanlang6556]

@@randyjordan5521 Don't forget the lack of the Hebrew language among native Americans. Languages leave traces for thousands of years. English absorbed words from Latin as evidence that the Romans were part of their background.

[@randyjordan5521]

@@harlanlang6556 Dittos. Explorers have found all sorts of Mayan glyph writing carved on stele over the last 180 years, and scholars have deciphered it. Where are any examples of Hebrew or Egyptian writing anywhere in ancient America?

[@Shirley-r4h9p]

At 85 after being a Mormon for 67 years and a temple Marrage and holding many different positions in church callings I have had my name removed and YES I Love learning about Jesus by studying the Holy Bible and I feel Free !!! 🙏🏻💜🙏🏻

[@howieroarke]

As a convert to the church who never believed its literal truth claims, leaving after many decades of activity was beyond stressful. Hearing your story today, I can only imagine the pain that you and your family are experiencing. They say it takes a year out for every decade in the church to recover. Wishing you comfort and peace during this transition.

[@rebeccacampbell585]

I feel like if you were raised in the church, born in the covenant as they say, it takes much longer. You have to practically rewire your brain.

[@vl6779]

My shelf broke when I served as a stake YW president in South America. My budget for the year was $1000 a year for six wards. The mission president home live in a $12,000 a month mission home and his kids were going to the American school (20,000 per kid per year times four) When I asked to increase my budget for a party I was asked to spend my own money.

[@icecreamladydriver1606]

@@howieroarke My son suffers from PTSD, to point of physical illness" also from his mission experience. It has angered me and frustrated me to no end but I tried to convince myself that it was acceptable but I hadn't put it together about the ptsd until I read you comment. I am no sure enough about Joseph and the Book of Mormon being false yet and I don't believe that Joseph practiced polygamy. Michelle Stone of the 132 problems podcast, Jeremy Hoop of the Still Mormon podcast and a few other have shown documentation of his innocence. Add to that there is no posterity other than with Emma. So whether he was a fraud or not I don't believe he was guilty of that sin.

[@bgmullins]

I don’t believe for a moment that “the Church” is true, but I believe the gospel is true. I believe the Book of Mormon is true. I believe that Joseph was a true prophet of Christ. I believe he was murdered, not by angry ex-Mormons (although there probably were some in the crowd), but I believe it was a group of high-ranking church leaders who plotted it. Leaders who wanted to practice polygamy and set themselves up as kings over the people. And Joseph was in the way. And Hyrum was the obvious person to lead after Joseph. So they killed them both, led the people west, ruled over them like kings, became extremely wealthy, and of course took as many wives for themselves as they could.

[@icecreamladydriver1606]

@@bgmullins Yeah, that is pretty much where I am at. If you haven't seen the movie Who Killed Joseph Smith by Justin Griffin then I suggest you and others watch it here on youtube or on his website.

[@hippopotamus6765]

​@@bgmullinswhat evidence do you have for believing?

[@carolyearsley]

@@icecreamladydriver1606 My children, through their Mormon father's line, are related to Fanny Alger, and her uncle Levi Hancock. He and Smith were good friends. In Levi's life story he tells how Smith made a deal with him. Smith would get Clarissa Reed for him if Levi would get Fanny Alger for Smith. Levi then went in the middle of the night to where she was staying, and helped her climb out of her window, and down into a produce wagon. He then transported her for forty-five miles to where Smith was living. His cousin Oliver Cowdery even called him out on his predatory actions, calling it a dirty, nasty, filthy affair. Also, in the life story Levi quotes Smith as to the reason that they started polygamy. Smith and his inner circle were from European royal bloodlines, and wanted to spread their genes as far as possible to perpetuate those lines. They wanted to prevent what they called the "careles" from propagating their inferior genetics into the general population.

[@drakelazerus]

Isn't it irronic, that God gave us brains to think, and ask questions and yet many religions that claim to represent God here on earth are the very ones, trying the hardest, to shut down your thinking? They will shame you, gaslight you, and cast you out of their club for questioning and challenging their authority and that is okay. That was all they really were to begin with, was a club. God seeks the heart, however in the end most churches are after your bank account.

[@GodJesusChristlovesyou_knows_u]

Yeah, we ought to discern everything in accordance with scripture. "Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so." - Acts 17:11. Scripture calls them noble for fact-checking and thinking without blindly believing what is said.

[@JLH1946]

Leaving the church is so hard. I’m going through it now. I go back and forth, it’s mental gymnastics.

[@TS-iv9ml]

🫂 you are not alone!!

[@randyjordan5521]

When my wife and I and our four kids stopped going to church, it was a relief for all of us. Our kids were 5 to 16 years old at the time. We just told them one night "We're not going to church anymore." They all kinda gave a collective sigh of relief. None of them liked going anyway.

[@WatchingwaitingG2D]

@@randyjordan5521 liar.

[@WatchingwaitingG2D]

@@JLH1946 liar.

[@China-Clay]

Carefully, very carefully, deconstruct, one bite at a time, you will begin to figure out where you want to land

[@jacoblewis2961]

Awesome Nathan, thank you for sharing your story!

[@markkrispin6944]

Excellent research done Nathan.

[@jerry_phillips]

Sorry to see you go. I’m sure your service was well appreciated. Hope to see you on the Come Back podcast one day! 😊 I stay because of the divine manifestation I received over 30 years ago. I can’t deny it and it trumps everything else. I wish I could say I’ve heard all the reasons to doubt but the list is endless. Your doubts certainly have a leg to stand on but for me so does my faith.

[@Thebishopsinterview]

I appreciate that

[@lorisimpson9210]

Well done! I was born into the church & left this year after 54 years! My story is similar to yours but mine started with a study of the bible. I had never read the bible before, because of course its "not translated correctly". I don't know why I decided to study it but I'm glad I did because as I was reading the bible there were too many contradictions between what I was taught which sent me searching for answers. I then discovered the CES letter. Then the gospel topics essays which I never knew existed. Just like you, I had never heard of polyandry. The more I discovered the angrier I got. I felt like a fool for being deceived for so long. Long story short, the Mormon church is not true but the bible is. I thank God for bringing me out of the Mormon church! And just my opinion, it seems to me over the last 10 years the church is trying to identify itself with more traditional Christianity probably because it's hemorrhaging members.Yesterday's doctrines are today's "He was speaking as a man."😂

[@WatchingwaitingG2D]

You're just a fake.

[@PINOnotPIMO]

Randy Bell and his information about Dartmouth College…. Amazing information

[@Geoplanetjane]

Yes. In the Lebanon New Hampshire Ward are always many Dartmouth students, their wives and many primary children. Most of them are students at Dartmouth Medical School, or Residents at Dartmouth Hitchcock Hospital. There are always a few who are either Dartmouth undergrads or Tuck Business School students, plus an occasional law students at Vermont Business School. Without the mormon students (most of them from BYU,) there are very few primary child from local residents. I could tell that even though most of the mormon Relief Society girls already had children, some with just their first baby, when the proclamation on the family came out, a number of them were reacting very cautiously to the words to the effect that even professionally educated women should not work outside the home, that they should stay home and take care of their husbands and children. How this turned out with the ward and especially the Relief Society there, I do not know, because I walked out that day and never went back, to this day, especially given how the local mormon women were so howlingly vociferous toward gay people. Totally repugnant.

[@LifeAfterBelief]

I love you man you’re not alone and thanks for sharing this wonderful story. It’s been 2 1/2 years for me. Parts of it get easier but parts of it are still really really painful. Thank you so much for sharing your story and all the reasons this was so well said.

[@ldgormleyful]

This was excellent and concise. Thank you.

[@proffernot5485]

Nailed it. Thank you for your story. Sending love and support from Iowa.

[@karlalamunyon350]

The gospel topics essays were the start of my decision to leave the church. I read them while waiting for a senior mission call. I told my husband, who was also on the journey of discovering truth, that I could not in good conscience serve a mission, so we asked our bishop to withdraw our request to serve.

[@randyjordan5521]

It's very telling that the church's attempts to be more truthful about its history causes more members to leave the church.

[@kayivang5270]

Good for you Nathan! You've done thorough research, study, analyzed the perplexing events or situations, and concluded with your findings. It's imperative to conduct thorough research and evaluation, compare the pros/cons or the benefits/drawbacks of something or someone before making wise logical decisions!

[@Jayjays964]

Thank you Nathan for sharing your story!

[@Caveman57]

Excellent! Very well spoken and thought out. Thank you and Merry Christmas to you and yours.

[@Smootiful]

Naw man. You're reasons are incredibly sound. I'd not yet heard of "The Late War" correlation but wow, its like the cherries, nuts and sprinkles on top of the other things that destroyed my faith. Thankfully, I'm fully resigned and out of the church and thriving. I'm grateful to see you here on KZbin sharing, despite the deep loss and pain that you and your family went through to get to this point.

[@Thebishopsinterview]

@@Smootiful Thank you so much for that

[@lotion_laura]

I'm new subscriber number 735. I first saw you on Mormon Stories Podcast. This is a great video! I'm on a quest for truth and this was very helpful. Thanks and God bless.

[@EI-Capitano]

Great summary! I wish the church would get real and recognize these problems in a healthy way that doesn’t leave some of its members feeling isolated, disillusioned, and crazy. Your video helped me feel less of the sad emotions above. Thank you for that!

[@randyjordan5521]

A saying goes: "A system gotten up in lies must be maintained by lies." Because the church's origin story is bogus, the leaders and scholars can't help but keep lying about it.

[@harlanlang6556]

If the church got real, then it would not be the LDS Church. Church leaders have no choice but to pretend that all's well in Zion.

[@kathleennelson6692]

,Thank you for talking about some of the many experiences that can and do lead to leaving "the" church. Truth concerning all religions and teachings is being exposed. Everyone will have a painful adjustment ahead.

[@harlanlang6556]

You're right about all religions being faced with their history. Religions are the way they are because of the circumstances at the time of their founding. Christianity is suited to the conditions of 2,000 years ago. We've come a long way from those days when little was known about science and the universe. And now we know about all the other religions which have existed on earth from the earliest times. They all served a purpose and were adapted to the needs of the people at those times. Religion needs an inclusive story of mankind's spiritual experiences so that we can appreciate all religions for what they contributed, but recognize that we need a form of religion suited to where we are now.

[@jumbo123ist]

Thanks for making the vid. You did you r research well. I’m aware of all the issues, and you’re right that there are no good answers from church leadership. The best answers are what you will find doing your own research. I’d say I have one foot in and one foot out of the church and worship on my own terms. That’s to say I reject many of the Mormon beliefs but attend church for the prayer, meditation, fellowship aspects mainly. Good luck to you and all searching for that one thing…truth, wherever it may be, and in whatever form we may discover it.

[@Nicetry-427]

I am very much looking forward to future episodes.

[@perrykim5]

Amen Nathan! Thanks for sharing,

[@travisshaffer552]

I’m not Mormon but have been studying it a lot. I also live in East Tennessee also. Your video is very interesting, I think one of the best I’ve watched.

[@randyjordan5521]

I'm in east Tennessee too. Nathan was a kid in my ward when my family left the church in 1998.

[@travisshaffer552]

@@randyjordan5521 I’m in the tri city area. I’m a Baptist. I had Mormon friends in school, I’ve always thought Mormons were very nice, hard working, family oriented people. I’ve not read the whole Book of Mormon, but I’ve read the first book, Nephi, I think. The problem I have with it, is that Nephi is supposedly written in 600 or so BC, and it gives such a detailed account of Jesus’s baptism and crucifixion. That seems so out of place for 600bc. I know the Old Testament prophets gave prophesies of Christ, but they were more vailed in poetic language. The old testament never mentions baptism, and I don’t think crucifixion was even a thing in 600 bc.

[@jonathanbaca1500]

Nathan, this is great information. Thank you.

[@gigi1332]

I was a 5 time Young Woman President and very devoted convert for decades. When I discovered that my leadership had knowingly lied to me about EVERYTHING I was completely devastated 💔

[@Thebishopsinterview]

@@gigi1332 I feel that

[@sarahpinho1114]

same

[@WatchingwaitingG2D]

@@gigi1332 liar.

[@WatchingwaitingG2D]

@@sarahpinho1114 liar.

[@MegaJohn144]

Shame on you and shame on me for trusting and not checking the facts. The arm of flesh is going to let you down, sooner or later, every time.

[@TheSandyStone]

Saw you on with bill and rfm, glad to hear your story!

[@billyates3226]

I see comments about the Mormon Church being false, but some other form of Christianity being true. Those folks should try using the same critical tools in evaluating the Bible as they used to debunk the Book of Mormon. Nathan did a great job of showing the BofM was a 19th century production, drawn from Joseph Smith's cultural and literary milieu. The Bible is no different in that respect. The Bible is a collection of myths that were alive at the time when the several "books" were written down, including the creation myth, the flood myth, and the human sacrifice myth. If you want to learn truth about the big questions, move on to science, not to another delusion. And maybe throw in some philosophy. Use the tools of logic, evidence, and reason, not necessarily what feels good or what you want to believe. It may come as a surprise, but science and ethics offer a very sound morality to live by, how to treat other people and how to live in a society. There are some good ethical teachings in the Bible, as well as some that are not so good, even atrocious.

[@icecreamladydriver1606]

You need to listen to Wes Huff. He is Protestant Christian who has spent his life studying the bible and the actual historical events. There really was a man who was crucified and then people saw him alive later on. As for the Flood myth, that has ben debunked. There is a great deal of information on the reality of the flood.

[@Billvardy]

You might consider doing some research . The Bible is based on provable historical accounts unlike the Book of Mormon .

[@NotashamedR116-86]

​@@icecreamladydriver1606 The flood happened. Evidence shows that.

[@billyates3226]

@@Billvardy Seriously? Let's start with some "provable historical accounts" of the absurdities. I'm waiting.

[@lolocsun]

​@@billyates3226... The same God that set up the physical world with all the physical realities that can be proven by physical means and tests, also set up the unseen SPIRITUAL world where we'll live a lot longer than our relatively short stint in this PHYSICAL portion!!! (forevermore)... Can't begin to see how atheists like YOU, attribute ALL the blessings that we have today, to results of EVOLUTION... The BIBLE'S main purpose is NOT to inform of physical realities that came with the creation of the world (science books do a great job of explaining matters of the physical world)... The BIBLE'S purpose is to prepare us for SPIRITUAL life in the unseen forevermore of the hereafter... In 1Corinthians13:11 it says... "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things." Continuing to take the Word LITERALLY means continuing to see things from a childish perspective... Though you may think of yourself as wiser than wise, in TRUTH you've chosen voluntarily to repeat the same grade-school mentality/thinking-style over and over... (see Groundhog Day movie)... Getting past that, requires finally accepting that the Bible's message, as well as much of Jesus's counsel, is given in parabolic form (NOT to be taken literally)... Wishing you well...

[@Lincoln-k3e999]

These are great learning videos for members of the Church. When we see missionaries we like to put them in a box, as if the formality or choice to serve = understanding and testimony etc.. ¿¿ Each individual in the Church needs to experience the intended fruits of the gospel for themselves, including missionaries. Many of them don't even understand what true conversion is all about.

[@mattsteinbeigle5386]

I stopped attending church in Feb 2022 after learning many of these same issues. I think more and more members are waking up as well. Our local ward building used to have three wards meeting there prior to the pandemic. Now there is one ward in that building.

[@JohnDLee-im4lo]

Your indolence and sloth are not typical.

[@tawnyachristensen7310]

Thanks for sharing!

[@smghifiguy]

Hyrum Smith attended Dartmouth College (Moore's Charity School) along with Ethan Smith (View of the Hebrews), Hyrum left the college before graduation to home school Joseph Smith for about a year at the time Joseph was recovering from a leg operation. The operation was performed by his uncle Nathan Smith who also taught medicine at the College. Several of the doctor's children also attended there and assisted in the operation. Joseph was not an "un-schooled" man. It would be interesting whether Gilbert J. Hunt (The Late War) had ties to Dartmouth College.

[@99blackbirds]

I chose the 3rd path!! I stay active and BURN in the middle!! I do not wear garments or pay tithing. I love the people/saints and going to church/community. I help my family members and serve. I hold up two middle fingers to the leaders especially Elder OAKS!

[@SidVranes]

What is wrong with Oaks?

[@99blackbirds]

@@SidVranes He is the STRICT ONE!!!! Every Mormon knows that!!!!! oh your not Mormon sorry..

[@99blackbirds]

@@SidVranes He wants to HOLD on to the PAST and be like it was in 1950!!!!

[@randyjordan5521]

You must have a stronger stomach than mine. I left that church because I could no longer sit in Sunday School and priesthood classes and listen to things being taught that I knew were false.

[@MegaJohn144]

@@SidVranes Wait till he becomes president and see the changes compared to Nelson and Hinckley. He hates gays. He presided over their electro-shock therapy as president of BYU and lied about it. He wants to step up excommunications from the church.

[@andrewreed4216]

I wish you well on your journey. I still enjoy parts of the faith, but I am very saddened at the slow degradation of goodness in society as a whole. I don't like how individuals are hijacking any institution by lying (I mean within the church). Sadly, it was Gordon B. Hinckley that signed of in 2004 in keeping all the funds secret. He was a favourite prophet of mine. I'm stuck as what to do as I have had intense spiritual experiences before and during joining the church. I've seen and met christ outside my body many times in my life... but he never said which church was true, i was just encouraged that this one would be helpful to me. (But I love any religion/non-religion that promotes kindness and equality. I myself love the native American reveals about the past (the nemenhah records, birch bark scrolls, etc..).. but I think its just a guide like all other scriptures (as far as they are translated correctly). I still prefer my personal experiences over anything. Good luck on your journey with your family, I hope you find what you are looking for and need.

[@sarahpinho1114]

I appreciate this, thanks!

[@jgreen8298]

I left the church 35 years ago. Best thing i ever did! Thanks for sharing, great job bringing up the truth bombs of the lds corporation.

[@JohnDLee-im4lo]

We've not missed you for a minute! I agree...best thing.

[@jgreen8298]

@JohnDLee-im4lo you don't even know me, how would you know you wouldn't have missed me? It's nothing personal, only my personal experience.

[@aaronclinger3521]

You are awesome Bishop😂. I got called as elders quorum president right after the first Israel/US proxy war in Iraq and Kuwait, I was the choice of last resort that was considered active, lol. I couldn't stand it when people addressed me as president, lol. My sister and her family(Debra and Ron J.) have lived in Hendersonville for over 30 years now. I believe that is Northeast of Nashville. I can't remember where you said you lived. They are total stalwarts. 4 and 1/2 out of 9 siblings in my family are completely or a little active, the 1/2 with lots of knowledge of the truth, but it's kind of what her and her husband know and their friends. I got my letter back of my request to have my records removed at the end of September. It was actually signed and dated from the officer in the records department exactly on my 65th 🎂, happy birthday to me lol! Great job, I have watched two of your videos and first saw you the other night with Culch, then I listen to your John Delynn interview. Thanks for your inspiration! Now that I know the real truths, my Bible study groups and Church of the Bible here in good old Sanpete county Utah.

[@Thebishopsinterview]

Thanks for your comment! Wishing you the best

[@JohnDLee-im4lo]

Thanks for leaving so we didn't have to throw you out. Posers need to leave.

[@Thebishopsinterview]

@ haha, it’s my pleasure

[@teinelaume]

Love your brave honesty. I too noticed the bible verses in the Book of Mormon and have never gotten an answer from church about why Joseph would choose to use uncorrected-Joseph Smith Translation verses from the Bible in the Book of Mormon. If the Book of Mormon was the most correct book then why did it include bible verses that were not the JST version? My story is a little different than yours. I had these things on the shelf, hated polygamy, but in my 57 years of life in the church I too loved being in the church. Loved it like you did. And would have to say I was quite orthodox. My unhinging came gradually and then all at once when I asked about the shot and the letter encouraging the shot. And since then I've been in a weird limbo place learning more and more like what you are sharing. I'm glad more history is coming out. It is good to have it all. The church has shot itself in the foot by hiding it. Having said that, regardless of where the Book of Mormon story comes from, there is an important doctrine of seeking the face of God in there that was removed and replaced by Polygamy and the gospel of nice rather than the gospel of Christ that shouldn't be thrown out. I think there was an outpouring of this in the 1800's on many people and there seems to be a similar awakening happening among lots of faiths today. And the Bible and Book of Mormon rips on the LDS church who have had this record in their hands yet don't understand it. See Alma 28, Mormon 8, Jeremiah 23. for anyone that cares: Mosiah 16:14-15 said: IF you are going to teach the Law of Moses, teach that it is a shadow of things to come (it was a tutor to show how to enter the presence of God ) and Likewise, if you're going to teach temple, temple temple, teach that it is the same thing. Ancient Israel got rejected because they started believing it was their much temple attendance that saved them. well...isn't that the same thing being doubled down on today? How does God feel about a people who attend a lot yet don't have the foggiest idea of what they are doing? See how he feels about us in Isaiah 1:11-21. When it says "blood on your hands" and calls us "murderers" it is referring to anyone who blocks knowledge causing others to die the second death, even of being shut out of Father's presence. "Marvel not that everyone must be born again" We must get an upgrade because the world is about to get it's upgrade to Terrestrial and every corruptible thing that remains Telestial will be not compatible with that glory. And the how of doing that (which is all over scripture) is not being taught in the Church today. Today you get kicked out of the club if you disparage the reputation, the doctrine, or the leaders of the church. Funny but that is what Christ was guilty of in his day too.

[@JohnDLee-im4lo]

Orthodox? You never believed. Had no loyalty of faith. Thanks for leaving so we didn't have to throw you out.

[@janicetanner]

Thanks for sharing. I don’t think I’ve ever seen the Stearns first vision account. 😮

[@jonathanbaca1500]

Great Information, this man knows what he's talking about. These are facts that I want to look up for myself, and with the help of computers, I can find out if Mr. Hinkly is exaggerating or telling the truth in this video.

[@raydunn8262]

Thank you. I think Brigham Y was more to blame in many aspects. He laid the foundation and reinforced much of the suspect doctrine. BY was also a vile evil being.

[@randyjordan5521]

Brigham Young carried on the doctrines and practices exactly as Joseph Smith had taught them to him. And Brigham wasn't the only one. Several dozen other church leaders learned the same things from Joseph in Nauvoo. That's why they followed Brigham west.

[@TexasTornado66]

I wanted to join my mom (she’s 83) and siblings in church today for the Christmas Sunday service. I literally had PTSD and was getting ill. My mom was excited I was there. I had to sleep the rest of the day.

[@Thebishopsinterview]

@@TexasTornado66 dang…did you post about that on facebook? I think I read it there

[@TexasTornado66]

@@Thebishopsinterview No, I didn’t comment about it on facebook. I have family who may see it on someone’s public post. I’m LifeAccordingto Kath there.

[@colemin2]

It's like seeing an old friend's corpse, but everyone around you is still talking to him like he's still alive.

[@lawrenza5235]

Can you provide links to the website used? Looks fascinating.

[@teinelaume]

Regarding Polygamy and Prophets: I'm with you 100% that we have had a bit of mind control going on to "follow the prophet" I can't bear that song now. Like you I had my initial reasons to back away but since then with more and more unlayering there are some sad things people don't know about. I believe Joseph and Emma's testimony that he and Hyrum did not condone or participate in Polygamy. But to the victor go the spoils, so we have Brigham's story and others as the narrative. (you should check out you tubers Michelle Stone or Still Mormon's work on this) Notice that the church got rid of lots of false doctrines of Brigham like Adam God theory, Blood atonement, Blacks and the Priesthood but the church still hangs on to Polygamy. Why? Because it's tied to authority which is tied to the story of Elijah giving the sealing keys (used in marriage) and the New and Everlasting Covenant became Eternal Polygamous Marriage rather than about entering into Christ's presence. Brigham rewrote the history. D&C 132 is messed up. LDS sunday School skips over any chastisement found in the Book of Mormon about themselves. But if you read 2 Nephi 28 it is about us. Mormon 8? it is about us. Rameumtum story? us again. In 2 Nephi 28:3 We kind of miss the part that says "For it shall come to pass in that day that all churches which are built up, and not unto the Lord, shall say unto the other; Behold I, I am the Lord's; and the others shall say, I, I am the Lord's; and thus shall everyone say that hath built up churches and not unto the Lord." The truth is there is only 2 churches. And that is not talking about any one religion. Coming to Christ apparently is free to the penitent. The church has tied tithing to coming unto Christ. That is a no no.

[@ensignmjs7058]

I look forward to your episode of Mormon Stories.

[@thedailydump7407]

I personally love the New Testament. And I love the Book of Mormon. Both have molded me into a more Christlike person. Don’t really care much if they are historically accurate. And I don’t see any Mormonism in either of them.

[@matthewtaylor2344]

I like the way you said this. This is how I'm feeling. I think Joseph was called to bring the book of Mormon specifically for that reason, to help people come to Christ more fully to be truly christian. There's a whole chapter in mosiah about how important is to take care of the poor. Its all about how to be Christlike

[@mm7365]

If you don't care if they are accurate, than you believe a book that has been proven as fiction to be true?

[@icecreamladydriver1606]

While I do care if they are true I do agree with you that there is no Mormonism in either book. The whole temple thing beyond the Kirtland temple and the proposal of but not the building of the Nauvoo temple(Brigham changed the specifications dramatically) is a fabrication straight from the twisted, evil mind of Brigham Young. He was a disgusting follower of Satan and Joseph even said at one point "If Brigham ever takes control of the church he will lead it straight to hell". And he did. I don't think all members will go to hell but that is in God's hands so I won't worry about that. I am trying to get my own mind cleared out and trying to follow Christ the way 3Nephi 11 shares with us in Christ's own words the doctrine of Christ: 32 And this is my doctrine, and it is the doctrine which the Father hath given unto me; and I bear record of the Father, and the Father beareth record of me, and the Holy Ghost beareth record of the Father and me; and I bear record that the Father commandeth all men, everywhere, to repent and believe in me. 33 And whoso believeth in me, and is baptized, the same shall be saved; and they are they who shall inherit the kingdom of God. 37And again I say unto you, ye must repent, and become as a little child, and be baptized in my name, or ye can in nowise receive these things. 38 And again I say unto you, ye must repent, and be baptized in my name, and become as a little child, or ye can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God. 39 Verily, verily, I say unto you, that this is my doctrine, and whoso buildeth upon this buildeth upon my rock, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against them. 40 And whoso shall declare more or less than this, and establish it for my doctrine, the same cometh of evil, and is not built upon my rock; but he buildeth upon a sandy foundation, and the gates of hell stand open to receive such when the floods come and the winds beat upon them. Brigham and others since him have added and taken away from to the point that there is much evil in the church. The leaders are so corrupt.

[@carolyearsley]

Smith incorporated into the Book of Mormon many of the teachings from the Methodist preachers during the time of the Second Great Awakening. One in particular is the sermon by King Benjamin. It is a knockoff of the sermons by their famous preacher Benjamin Abbott. The early Methodists were very sincere and devout, so it's understandable that their writings would inspire you.

[@matthewtaylor2344]

@@mm7365 that's not what I'm saying. I think that some people are predisposed/chosen/genetically more likely/able to commune with the divine in a more intimate/complex way, and be able to produce powerful scripture. I think Joseph was one of those people. Scripture is more impactful and inspirational than a normal fictional tale. Its not meant as history but as a means by which we can learn about the divine and how to commune with it and grow towards it. When your a toddler you are taught the road is "bad" and dangerous and will kill you. On one level that is true but on another level the opposite is true, it's an amazing tool for logistics and travel and an amazing feat of engineering and itd be hard to even have all the conveniences and infrastructure we have today without it. So, when you teach a child they learn as a child, but when they are older they put away childish things. We know that stories of Superman would resonate FAR more with a child than the complex heart wrenching, tear pulling story of an even more amazing true historical hero, but they wouldn't understand that story because they are a child. So you tell them stories about Superman. The superman story is "literally" false, but in actuality even MORE amazing heroes exist, so it's actually true in a way. Scriptures are Gods way of teaching us the truth in a way WE can understand it. He could not teach truly literally exactly what is true at his level because we could never understand that in his terms/language/knowledge/understanding. Its like an ant "prophet" teaching other ants about an "amazing queen ant" greater than all the other queen ants that can move the whole colony with a mere thought to a new and promised land full of food and happiness, but the "queen ant" is a loving gigantic human with a metallurgically fashioned shovel that cares for the ants well being. They could never understand what a shovel is even if you explained it to them for 1000 years. Or the power humans possess or how the world works or how physics works etc. But if you teach them in their language culture/terms/understanding they can grow. God does this with use using divine stories through divine words of scripture. Some people/humans have a higher capability to understand a glimpse of these truths and articulate them in a way we can understand and feel inspired to follow. Christ is the epitome of this example. He is the "representative" of GOD if he actually was here among us. We could NEVER understand who God is in a literal sense or in the true-ist literal of terms/language because he is SO far beyond our understanding, in a whole higher plane of existence. BUT, we can understand Yeshua/Jesus. He is who God would be if he was here with us, that's why he told us "when you see me you see the father" he uses our language and terms because it's the closest to the truth and it's the best way that he can be represented. An all loving perfectly judging merciful and infinitely powerful father. We can grasp that. The Book of Mormon helps people of the Modern time, especially modern christians understand more about faith, how to communicate with the divine, what's truly important, and how to be like Christ. All scripture isn't perfect though it's mixed with people's thoughts and other things etc. But it's the best we've got, and it's how things like this work, it's how the divine communicates with us. The Divine spark within you helps YOU navigate the truths of the things you hear and read and see. That's the "spirit". If you try to be like Christ, read scriptures (of many origins) then the spirit (that Divine spark in you) will speak to your heart and mind and help you grow and transform, it will help you discerne what in those scriptures is divine and what is not. Scriptures are powerful things, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. If you become an adult and things become revealed to you and you see beyond childish things, then seek after the deeper adult lessons. Anyways, I hope whatever scripture you feel God/The divine speak to you through, you are seeking through it and reading it and using it as a tool to grow closer to the divine and to those around you. I feel like for me, the book of Mormon has served me very well in this regard as has the new testament. As well as pieces of the old testament and the doctrine and covenants and pearl of great price.

[@snivelinj7612]

I left it all behind due to many of same reasons you left. When I left I felt I dropped a load of bricks I had been carrying around for so long. I don't miss it at all. I am happier than I was when I was active. Thanks so much for your account. Perhaps the main event that pushed me over the hump was having a member of the Stake Presidency asking me what I wear to bed at night. I felt like telling him it's none of his damn business how I sleep or what I wear in bed. But I didn't. But of course he had to order me to wear my garments when I'm in bed. I got sick of people I didn't respect telling everyone how to run their lives. NO MORE !

[@JohnDLee-im4lo]

Thanks for leaving so we didn't have to throw you out. Leave the bricks and get the hell out.

[@randyjordan5521]

At the 26 minute mark, Nathan talks about the various versions of Joseph Smith's alleged first vision. Even more suspect than the inconsistencies in the story, there is no evidence from any of Joseph's relatives or acquaintances which relate that Joseph told them about any such experience. However, DOZENS of Joseph's 1820's acquaintances related great detail about Joseph's years-long folk-magic/treasure-seeking practices. Entire books have been written about that subject alone. The upshot being that Joseph was NOT the humble, prayerful, Bible-reading teen that he portrayed himself as in his "official history." Everyone who dealt with him in the 1820s described him as a ne'er do well of low character who did not want to do honest work for a living. Emma Hale's father Isaac refused to let Joseph marry his daughter in 1827: "I first became acquainted with JOSEPH SMITH, Jr.1 in November, 1825. He was at that time in the employ of a set of men who were called "money-diggers;" and his occupation was that of seeing, or pretending to see by means of a stone placed in his hat, and his hat closed over his face. In this way he pretended to discover minerals and hidden treasure. His appearance at this time, was that of a careless young man--not very well educated, and very saucy and insolent to his father. Smith, and his father, with several other `money-diggers' boarded at my house while they were employed in digging for a mine that they supposed had been opened and worked by the Spaniards, many years since. Young Smith gave the `money-diggers' great encouragement, at first, but when they had arrived in digging, to near the place where he had stated an immense treasure would be found--he said the enchantment was so powerful that he could not see. They then became discouraged, and soon after dispersed. After these occurrences, young Smith made several visits at my house, and at length asked my consent to his marrying my daughter Emma. This I refused, and gave him my reasons for so doing; some of which were, that he was a stranger, and followed a business that I could not approve." These events occurred during the period when Joseph later claimed that he was being mentored by "the angel Moroni" to prepare to translate the golden plates. Clearly, the actual young Joseph Smith was very different from how he portrayed himself when he wrote his life story.

[@WatchingwaitingG2D]

Quiet liar.

[@TS-iv9ml]

​@WatchingwaitingG2D still lurking we all see 😂

[@krakenfan6818]

I left the church 8 years ago and only this past year learned that Joseph didn't tell the "missionary" version of the vision for many many years after he claimed it happened. In other versions he told about ONLY seeing an angel. Or Only seeing Jesus. And no mention of asking about other churches, or being bound by the enemy as he tried to pray. The first vision story anchored my testimony and it was a LIE.

[@randyjordan5521]

@@krakenfan6818 When I was a missionary half a century ago, the first discussion we taught to investigators was the "Joseph Smith story." We had to memorize and recite the basics of the "first vision story" which began "It was on the morning of a beautiful clear day, early in the spring of 1820" yada yada. I still have my missionary discussion book in my attic, "The Uniform System For Teaching Families." I began studying my way out of the church and learning about all of these inconsistencies when I was in my late 30s.

[@WatchingwaitingG2D]

@TS-iv9ml You don't see anything pass your mouth.

[@karenstamp2568]

Nature is one of the best ways to be close to God

[@krakenfan6818]

I was astounded when I compared The Late War text to the BOM. Factor in that from the earliest Vision version to the BOM publishing date, that is 10 YEARS. Joseph with help of others absolutely could have written the Book of Mormon. It is fiction.

[@randyjordan5521]

A Century ago, the LDS scholar BH Roberts concluded that Joseph Smith had the talent and pre-existing source material by which he could write the BOM on his own. Also, there's no evidence to support Joseph's claim of an 1820 "first vision." The historical evidence suggests that he came up with the idea of writing his "golden Bible" after his fraud conviction of March 20, 1826.

[@IdahoTruthSeeker]

who is the author?

[@krakenfan6818]

@@IdahoTruthSeeker Gilbert Hunt's book The Late War, between the United States and Great Britain, from June, 1812, to February, 1815

[@IdahoTruthSeeker]

Thanks!

[@davidfrey5654]

Who were the others? Please, do tell.

[@harlanlang6556]

I moved to Utah as a young man and lived there 2 years. I was an agnostic at the time, but was always willing to listen to my Mormon friends. I felt that they were selling their religion just like you would sell life insurance. It never seemed genuine, but contrived to appear perfect. The idea that God had a human body just didn't seem real. At that time I didn't know the details of the history of the church, so that was not an issue. I must have some qualities of my Tennessee grandpa who was a Baptist in name only. He thought for himself and didn't allow others to bully him spiritually to behave the way they thought he should behave. We all need to think for ourselves.

[@JC-vq2cs]

Hello, I have listened to your Mormon Stories episodes - your own story plus the recent one. Now the Genie of the Almighty YT Algorithm has recommended your channel, so I am a new subscriber here. I appreciate you sharing your story so publicly. I also wonder how many of your congregation, TBM friends and family have ever asked you why you left directly. You may have mentioned that in your MSP interview, apologies for not remembering all the details. I am a NeverMo in Utah who used to really resent the political control of the Brighamite Church on the city and state. By extension I struggled to appreciate all my TBM (and it turns out PIMO, ex, and across the faith spectrum) Mormon neighbors and co-workers. For all the shade thrown at ex-members, it is you content creators who have taught me so much and greatly increased my compassion for average members. It is quite the opposite for the upper leadership. After a brief investigation of the church's truth claims years ago, I was shocked anyone could believe any of it. I have a nice NeverMo bubble of a community here so just went back to my day to day life. At the time I did not understand indoctrination and culty (high control) undue influence. Since the $250+Billion CoJCoLDS isn't going anywhere soon, I hope it does slowly get dragged into a healthier doctrinal system and cultural ethos over time for the sake of members and the wider community alike. It does not just affect members, especially here in Utah! Internal ATC does not seem to work very well, only external public pressure and bad PR (which of course they will deny). So thank you for speaking out, especially as a former bishop. I know several here in town, and am so much more sympathetic to the stress and demands put upon untrained volunteers! Best wishes for healing and well-being for you and your family as well as your community. Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, Happy Holidays, or whatever you choose to celebrate and make your own wonderful seasonal traditions.

[@bret3039]

By their fruits ye shall know them. For me, the fruit is sweet, encouraging, and brings me closer to Christ.

[@krakenfan6818]

@@bret3039 from individuals, yes. From the $300+ Billion corporation, nope. See the church website library and look for Gospel Topics essays about Book of Abraham, Joseph Smith's polygamy and the timeline of each of JS's versions of the "first" vision. . That will be a good start. The church admits to things they have denied and claimed as "anti-Mormon" for decades or longer.

[@alannahmay3823]

I became closer to Christ after leaving Mormonism. I got a chance to know Him through the Bible.

[@Surelyserious1]

Also just a note Oliver cowdery was Jospeh’s cousin and he was a congregation member at the author of view of the Hebrews , pastor Ethan smith”s church. And Oliver helped publish the view of the Hebrews.

[@IdahoTruthSeeker]

Where did you find this information? I would love to see this.

[@krakenfan6818]

I purchased View of the Hebrews and though it is a VERY dry read, it is yet another source that helped convince me that Joseph Smith absolutely DID write the Book of Mormon with help from others.

[@WatchingwaitingG2D]

@krakenfan6818 quiet pretender.

[@MegaJohn144]

What's this about Oliver helping to publish the View of the Hebrews? By the way, have you ever read it? It's nothing like the Book of Mormon.

[@WatchingwaitingG2D]

@@krakenfan6818 liar.

[@GuyRegular]

B.h Roberts a. Mormon historian said that the view of the Hebrews is the entire ground plan for the book of Mormon, and he is certainly correct in that conclusion. And not to mention that the fellow wrote it was a pastor in some church that I believe Oliver cowdery was a member of and it was in Vermont. So Joseph Smith certainly had to be familiar with this book

[@davidfrey5654]

What a joke. Have you actually read that book yourself? I have. It's a joke. The two cannot even be compared.

[@kristenyurek4490]

Thanks so much for being so clear in your explanations. It seems as if you’re on a path of discovering who God really is. Had to walk through that too after coming out of a charismatic cult. May I recommend Lee Stroebel’s book, The Case for Christ, and Evidence that Demands A Verdict by Josh McDowell?

[@rodneydyer351]

My story is over 40 years and I would need a few podcasts to tell it hahaha. I'll just reduce it to three questions: 1. Who called the apostles at the time of Christ and how many fell away or was removed & why? 2. Who called the apostles in the book of mormon and how many fell away or was removed & why? (stay with me here) 3. Who called the apostles in the beginning of the church and how many fell away or was removed & why? One of these things don't look like the others.

[@JohnDLee-im4lo]

4 decades as a rank poser in the church...you must be so proud!

[@polyglot6542]

All religions are plagued with contradictions. For anyone who decides to use comkon sense and a fair amount of reading and research and comparative study, all churches and religions are man-made. They may be only useful in the sense of guiding people to do good but that is where it ends. If we look at churches and how they operate, they behave as a corporations seeking the highest return on the money they extricate from those who believe they are paying for salvatikn and exaltation. Cone to think about it, not different at all from the Catholic church and all others. I dont think I need to buy salvation or exaltation. That is a modern take on religious capitalism. 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@harlanlang6556]

I agree that religious institutions of most religions are man-made and dominated by some form of clergy. The clergy usually do become corrupt. But the origin stories of religions usually include an individual person like Jesus, Moses, Muhammed, Buddha or Zoroaster who claimed to be inspired to transmit a particular message or understanding from God, or Source, to the people of that time. These Divine Teachings became the core of civilizations.

[@savedbygracethrufaith]

Nathan, Mike here. First, I’m enjoying your content and want to congratulate you on leaving (or escaping) Mormonism. I do recognize that faith deconstruction from Mormonism is not a party for you and your family. But I see it as a necessary step if an individual is to find faith in Jesus coming out of a manufactured religion like Mormonism. I think all of your reasons for leaving are valid and I hope you continue to share those details. From an outsider NeverMo Christian perspective, I think the main reason one should leave Mormonism is that Mormonism teaches a false gospel and a perverted nature of God and salvation is in the line. You’ve mentioned you felt God’s presence in nature, so let’s start there. If He exists, do you still want to know Him? If He exists, do you want to have eternal fellowship with Him? Can we as sinful beings have fellowship with a Holy Almighty God without forgiveness of sin? Did Jesus live and die and raise from the dead to pay for that sin? (Does archeological evidence exist to prove Jesus existed?, contrasted to the lack of evidence for the BoM). If Jesus is real, will you consider belief in Him and consider the triune nature of God? I’d simply suggest that the Mormon Jesus wasn’t real…but Jesus is real and He wants you and your family to know Him today. I’d suggest some counseling with a Pastor from a nearby Bible-believing non-denominational church if available. That being said, I think you’ve been a guest on Jesus for Mormons podcast and Mormonism Live. Would you consider reaching out to some other podcasts? From top of mind I’d suggest: 1. Faith Deconstructed 2. GLM (God Loves Mormons) 3. Mormon Book Reviews 4. think there are many more I could drum up, ask if wanted.

[@nottiredofwinning3736]

Brother, I urge you to explore the Bible with fresh eyes, detached from Joseph Smith's cultish distortion.

[@16jcstratton]

Thank you for sharing and I knew the church is not true when I was about 12-13 years old. but I was feared my dad and he was strong beleive in the church.. I resigned from the church and knew that the church is NOT honest.. thanks again:)

[@GuyRegular]

And in regards to this priesthood authority, I have a copy of the original book of commandments which was later rewritten extensively and called the doctrine and covenants. But on the dates that that this priesthood restoration was supposed to have occurred, there's absolutely not one word about it and it wasn't till several years later that Joseph Smith added it to the doctrine and covenants. So this so-called priesthood authority was just something that Joseph Smith decided the church needed and made it up and it's quite obvious if you compare the original book of commandments to the doctrine and covenants.

[@Lynn.Panadero4242]

43:10 This is where my shelf broke. We claim that we are the only church with the authority. Then we read in Jacob 5 in the allegory of the vineyard a description of how God tried over and over to establish his church on earth and failed. So Jacob 5 gives credibility to all the other religions at least in their inceptions, bút we now teach that they are all wrong.

[@JohnDLee-im4lo]

Thanks for leaving so we didn't have to throw you out.

[@dl1130]

First Book of Napoleon. "I Napoleon being of small statue....."BofM "I Nephi being of large statue....." Those first words was a big start of my shelf breaking along with the books you mentioned. Of course, the plagiarism of biblical passages of the King James edition used in Joseph's day that contained errors reproduced in the BofM.

[@henrysengson2085]

What about the Doctrine and Covenants and the pearl of great price? He did wrote all those too? What about the organization of the church? And by the way if this is not the true church, which one then? Are we on darkness or what?

[@MegaJohn144]

Read Section 84. The Lord condemned the church for not reading and taking the Book of Mormon seriously. That condemnation has never been lifted. In the original Book of Commandment, the Lord warned the church not to fall away, because if they did, they would be like Sodom of Gomorrah. Section 1 of the D&C says that the revelations were given so that the church MIGHT become the only true church. The Lord never claims that this was the true church. In fact, the Book of Mormon condemns the church of the Gentiles: the people who would actually read the Book of Mormon. Read 2 Nephi 28, 3 Nephi 27, and Mormon 8. The Book of Mormon is the greatest and most prophetic anti-Mormon book ever written.

[@teinelaume]

Hey, it's going to be alright. When the pyramid of sacred cows has it's foundation kicked and they all fall down it is scary and feels like you are being torn asunder in shreds (my experience) but little by little you pick up each cow and ask the hard questions, What about word of wisdom, what about tithing, what about etc. You have the tools of discernment, look for the fruits, be thankful for the curtain being ripped back because God has more to teach without all the precepts of men mixed in. Start reading scriptures with that raw honesty and pray for God to teach you. Directly from him. Beg to be shown, to teach you, how to come to him. And I promise you will have an experience with Him. The Church is not the Gospel. The Gospel is true. But it has not been taught in the church even though it's right there in the scriptures.

[@GuyRegular]

Report: The Book of Mormon as a Work of 19th Century Fiction The Book of Mormon, first published in 1830 by Joseph Smith, is regarded by members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) as sacred scripture. It claims to be a historical account of ancient American civilizations descended from Israelites. However, many scholars outside the LDS tradition view it as a work of 19th-century fiction. This report examines several key points that challenge the historicity of the Book of Mormon, including DNA evidence, anachronisms, lack of archaeological support, alleged plagiarism, and the absence of early Mormon Church doctrines. 1. DNA Evidence: Native Americans' Ancestry One of the most compelling arguments against the historical claims of the Book of Mormon comes from genetic research. The text asserts that the indigenous peoples of the Americas are primarily descended from Israelite groups who migrated to the Americas around 600 BCE. However, extensive DNA studies have shown that Native Americans' genetic markers are overwhelmingly of Asian origin, particularly from Siberia and East Asia, indicating a migration through the Bering Strait thousands of years before the purported events in the Book of Mormon. These genetic findings have been replicated across multiple studies, making it highly unlikely that the Americas were populated by Israelites, as the Book of Mormon suggests. This undermines a core element of the text's historical narrative. 2. Anachronisms in the Text Another major challenge to the historicity of the Book of Mormon is the presence of anachronisms-references to objects, animals, or practices that did not exist in the Americas during the time period described in the book. Some examples include: Horses: The Book of Mormon mentions horses being used by the Nephites and Lamanites, but horses were not present in the Americas during the time period described. They were only reintroduced to the continent by Europeans in the 16th century. Steel and Chariots: The book also describes the use of steel and chariots, neither of which have been found in pre-Columbian archaeological records in the Americas. The technology to produce steel did not exist in the ancient Americas, nor did chariot-based warfare. Wheat and Barley: Grains like wheat and barley, mentioned in the Book of Mormon, were not cultivated in the Americas before European contact. These anachronisms suggest that the text reflects a 19th-century understanding of the ancient world rather than an accurate depiction of ancient American civilizations. 3. Lack of Archaeological Evidence Despite extensive archaeological work throughout the Americas, there is no direct evidence to support the civilizations described in the Book of Mormon. Cities like Zarahemla and the battles described, such as those at Cumorah, have left no trace in the archaeological record. The absence of any evidence for large-scale civilizations that match the Book of Mormon’s descriptions casts doubt on the text's historical claims. In contrast, other ancient American civilizations, such as the Maya, Aztec, and Inca, have left behind extensive archaeological records, including cities, monuments, and artifacts. The lack of similar findings for the civilizations described in the Book of Mormon is a significant challenge to its historical authenticity. 4. Plagiarism from the Bible and Other Sources Scholars have also identified numerous passages in the Book of Mormon that closely mirror the King James Version (KJV) of the Bible, which was published in the early 17th century. These similarities raise questions about the book's origins, especially since Joseph Smith claimed to have translated the text from ancient gold plates. For instance, entire sections of the Book of Mormon are nearly identical to passages from the KJV's New Testament, despite being set in a time long before the New Testament was written. Additionally, certain thematic and narrative elements in the Book of Mormon resemble contemporary religious and popular literature from the early 19th century, suggesting that Joseph Smith drew from sources available in his environment. 5. Absence of Mormon Church Doctrines in the Text Interestingly, some of the central doctrines of the modern LDS Church are not present in the Book of Mormon. For example: Plural Marriage: The practice of polygamy, which was a significant part of early Mormonism, is not advocated in the Book of Mormon. In fact, the text condemns the practice of having multiple wives (Jacob 2:27-30). Temple Rituals: The complex temple ceremonies that are a key part of LDS religious life today are also absent from the Book of Mormon narrative. These practices were introduced by Joseph Smith later in his prophetic career. The absence of these doctrines suggests that the Book of Mormon may have been influenced by Smith's early religious environment, rather than being a divinely revealed text that encompassed all aspects of the faith he later established. 6. Other Evidence Against Historicity Language Issues: The Book of Mormon claims to have been written in "Reformed Egyptian," a language that has never been identified or recognized by linguists or Egyptologists. No evidence exists for the use of Egyptian or any derivative thereof by ancient American civilizations. Cultural Inconsistencies: The societies described in the Book of Mormon do not align with known pre-Columbian cultures. The text describes a civilization heavily influenced by ancient Israelite customs and governance, but no evidence has been found to support this cultural overlay in the Americas. Conclusion The Book of Mormon, despite its significance to millions of believers, faces substantial challenges when considered as a historical document. DNA evidence points to an Asian origin for Native Americans, not an Israelite one. Anachronisms within the text, the lack of archaeological evidence, similarities to the Bible and other contemporary sources, and the absence of key LDS doctrines all suggest that the Book of Mormon is more likely a work of 19th-century fiction than an ancient historical record. While the book holds spiritual and cultural importance for members of the LDS Church, the available evidence does not support its historical claims. Instead, the Book of Mormon appears to be a reflection of its time and the religious environment in which Joseph Smith lived.

[@michaeldenova4562]

Please share with us the "proofs" LDS use to say the Book of Mormon IS an ancient text and not the invention of Joseph Smith. THEN we can determine for ourselves. Also, I love it when Christians say the Book of Mormon is NOT true because there is no DNA evidence. Do they not realize that the Bible is fill with scriptures stating the House of Israel would be scattered among all nations. If there is no DNA evidence of the House of Israel in ancient American peoples, then the Bible must be false also.

[@JC-vq2cs]

I have been looking into stylometric analysis in early Christian text studies (spoiler, there are as many problems in literalist / orthodox / faithful modern truth claims there as in Mormon texts). I think studies of the unique Mormon texts is also fascinating. I watched Chris Johnson's presentation on KZbin from 11 years ago but cannot find any published papers or work. So the website you showed here comparing the Late War looks really interesting. Could you post the direct link in the notes or here in the comments, Nathan? The purchased SEO power of the CoJCoLDS Communications department makes searching for non-apologetic materials really difficult, lots of junk to wade past. Thanks!

[@GuyRegular]

Well if we don't know how we did it, that's a question, but I think we do know how he did it. He put a stone in a hat and put his face in the hat and started reciting the text. There was no translation. He just compiled it from different sources and different ideas. And by the way that was the same peepstone that he used. They put in a hat and looked in the hat to exclude light and was swindling gullible Farmers out of their money claiming he could find hidden treasures with it and he was tried and convicted of being an imposter and a disorderly person.

[@teinelaume]

Here's another weird story, Oliver Cowdrey was talented with the divining rod and the Lord approved it D&C 6:10. Mention of this device was changed to him having the "gift of Aaron" (another stick story) rather than mention the divining rod (control of narrative) From the original Book of Commandments, Oliver wanted to translate. "Now this is not all, for you have another gift, which is the gift of working with the rod; behold it has told you many things; behold there is no other power save God that can cause this rod of nature to work in your hands." God does all kinds of things outside the box. Leaders of the church feared and so they edited this out. But that was a mistake. It is by faith that miracles happen, not title or priesthood you hold, or hands placed on your head. So who is to say he can't use a device he was familiar with to do his work? Think of the many crazy ways people were healed by Christ and other prophets.

[@alannahmay3823]

Some Native Americans have a tree of life story with a fruit that does something special when you eat it. The Iroquois have such a story. I believe that the Smiths borrowed from the Native stories that were circulating.

[@MAJdrdtucker]

There is plenty to go after relative to BoM historicity. Deutero-Isaiah and long ending of Mark anachronisms, for example. The biggest anachronism to me was presented by John Lundwall on Mormonish podcast, the highly literate society assumed by the voices/characters in the BoM is a blatant anachronism, one of many examples of how the BoM is a product of the milieu JS inhabited.

[@Loader257]

Dude, I didn't know any of that stuff about the BOM and the first vision and all the similarities... Holy. Crap...

[@1955porsche]

th deeper u dig the worse the cult of lies intimidation bullsht nonsense, mind control, extortion gets

[@8chuz]

GBH is also my second cousin 3x removed. 😊 I like going to Cove Fort in honor of that line of ancestors.

[@Thebishopsinterview]

Thanks Cuz!

[@deathvalleydog]

Powerful. And educational. Turns out Joseph Smith didn’t even have original ideas.

[@user-mn447]

You need to read Second Class Saints. Black and the Priesthood. By Matthew Harris 😳😳😳

[@Thebishopsinterview]

@@user-mn447 yes…I’ve heard a couple interviews with him

[@user-mn447]

@@Thebishopsinterviewbtw, this is a great show. All valid reasons. You call them layers, and I call them rabbit holes. I’m down a million rabbit holes.

[@darin6958]

Congrats on the tough task of escaping the Matrix Brother!

[@triciaringquist6723]

I think people try to make God this hard thing that you have to accomplish…. And I don’t believe that.! God always came down on everybody else’s level he met them where they were broken into pieces! You are righteous you don’t need me! That’s what he said that’s what he repeated. Nobody is set above or beyond anybody else I wasn’t looking for you today but I found you because I’ve been praying to God. I’ve never been treated as well as I’ve been treated by this church ever in my life I’m 71 years old. I want to believe badly that the Mormon church is the church but like you I find it difficult to lie to myself God is simple yes only one thing that you believe in him and love him with all your heart and strive every day to be like him. It’s that simple.

[@wesliepowell5698]

My shelf broke in 1988 after my last session in the Temple, during which I realized it was all just "gobbledygook". The ceremony was obviously 19th century propaganda, not inspiring nor inspired.

[@JohnDLee-im4lo]

Thanks for leaving so we didn't have to throw you out.

[@triciaringquist6723]

I’m wondering if it’s a problem? Or confirmation.? don’t get me wrong. I’m no expert. I am new to the Mormon church. I was raised Pentecostal Baptist catholic Methodist Lutheran never Mormon what brought me to church was family….There is goodness and wholeness! I’ve just been unable to swallow that Joseph Smith found these plates and wrote down the book of Mormon. He could’ve been a very firm believer in God he could’ve been a good man. Maybe he felt that was the only way to get people to follow. I don’t know sometimes and I go in circles about all this. Which tells me I know the truth. Right even though I don’t wanna admit it.

[@jonny9998]

Did you actually read the "Late War"? The "View of the Hebrews"? Or did you just rely on these summaries? I have read them. They are not the sources of the Book of Mormon.

[@Thebishopsinterview]

@@jonny9998 I never claimed that they are the source. I said that the existence of the book is what bothers me. In other words, they are similar. They shouldn’t be similar. One is 200 years old, the other is 2,000 years old and they are similar

[@cheerfulcoffee1568]

I do not understand you when you said our current prophet. As a former member of the mormon church, I do not believe in mormon prophets, to me just a regular person so...

[@Thebishopsinterview]

I agree. I’m just simply saying I am still a member…and he is the “prophet”. It has nothing to do with my personal beliefs

[@cheerfulcoffee1568]

@@Thebishopsinterview ok

[@WatchingwaitingG2D]

@@Thebishopsinterview you're still nothing but a fake.

[@HunterWebb-sv1zz]

Nathan can i ask you an honest question has losing the LDS faith turned you away from God enitrely, did you become agnostic or did you because a biblical christian

[@Thebishopsinterview]

Watch my first interview with Ron

[@sarahpinho1114]

it's not a loss, it's a gain

[@WatchingwaitingG2D]

@@HunterWebb-sv1zz he became a phony like you did.

[@WatchingwaitingG2D]

@@Thebishopsinterview You don't believe in God or belong to any religion.

[@colmortimer1066]

I had a Mormon friend, probably more than friends much of the time, and the main issue was her Mormon faith, did not fit my own, and we could never find a way to reconcile those differences. But watching this and other things I have picked up in my furthering my religious journey, I know I made the right choice not to convert. May I ask did you replace Mormonism with another religion? I get that many here from reading the comments were hurt by a fake church, but Christ still died for you, in hopes that you believe and follow Him, so I hope you find a proper church that preaches the true Gospel. I'd say if nothing else find a bible, not Joseph Smith's translation and read at least the 4 Gospels. Give them an honest look without the taint of Mormonism. I just fear after leaving a bad church, it is easy to give up on religion, when really I think you were just in a corrupted version of the truth.

[@colemin2]

Religion isn't essential for everyone.

[@triciaringquist6723]

I’m wondering if it’s a problem? Or confirmation.? don’t get me wrong. I’m no expert. I am new to the Mormon church. I was raised Pentecostal Baptist catholic Methodist Lutheran never Mormon what brought me to church was family….There is goodness and wholeness! I’ve just been unable to swallow that Joseph Smith found these plates and wrote down the book of Mormon. He could’ve been a very firm believer in God he could’ve been a good man. Maybe he felt that was the only way to get people to follow. I don’t know sometimes and I go in circles about all this. Which tells me I know the truth. Right even though I don’t wanna admit it.

[@SandraDodd]

-=- I was raised Pentecostal Baptist catholic Methodist Lutheran-=- Thats too wide a range to have been "raised." Sounds more like visiting or dabbling. Changing that many times makes Mormonism just one more dabbling visit. :-) Church-hopping is interesting and illuminating, but it's not being raised, 18+ years, in a church.

[@triciaringquist6723]

@ always loved other people‘s judgment.. I’m an adult child of an alcoholic parent. in my early years, I was a drug all over hell and back and yes, I visited a few churches. I was put in a Catholic school. I was also in foster care when I say I was raised in several religions. It’s true none by my choice that isn’t visiting… as an adult. I’m trying to choose a church for myself. That’s how I ended up in the Mormon church ..

[@SandraDodd]

If Joseph Smith's foundations were not solid, why worry about details of subsequent "prophets"? Former Mormons express concerns about their parents' loss of family members, in the celestial kingdom. If Joseph Smith is discredited, the celestial kingdom dissolves with him; he made it up. I'm even more surprised when people who are excommunicated keep following directives from church officials about what they can and can't do or wear or donate to. Joseph Smith could not have expected all this to last for 200 years, if he thought Jesus was about to come again. It seems, from what I've heard from questioning Mormons, that Joseph Smith wanted a free house and a bunch of sex, while people were waiting for Jesus to come and sort things out. He would not have done well, under most people's beliefs about the final judgment.

[@harlanlang6556]

Joseph Smith didn't have to create the Celestial Kingdom. He had every opportunity to read, or hear about, Emanuel Swedenborg who wrote books describing the different levels of the spiritual world. Swedenborg was a Swedish scientist and mystic of the 18th century who describes his mystical discoveries. His books were in circulation in the U.S. in the early 19th century.

[@suzannedehaven6775]

Many people leave the church for many different reasons and only God knows why,but people must understand people in the church made choices to hide information away from the saints and try cover up what they did and alot of the saints became complicit with these prominent Mormons and didn't dare to basically find the truth...because certain Mormons don't like it when other Mormons tell these prominent Mormons that they are in the wrong...that they need to be held accountable for what they have done...but if you look back God warned all the saints about not being honest ...so allot of things that happened to the saints at various times happened because they thought they could get away with it and god would give them a pass because of the position they hold in the church...God won't give them a pass...he will hold them accountable for all wrongs they did...and all the lies they told and hid from the saints...people need to understand its not the church that is in the wrong, its the individuals that hold powerful positions in the church..they made the decisions that is basically costing the church today..

[@billyates3226]

Nathan, you have done a great job of articulating the issues which led you away from the Church. No doubt, you also have since then encountered other big problems with the Church. Some of those would be: 1. The DNA evidence that proves the origin of Native Americans and Polynesians ("Lamanites") to be northeast Asia. There is no DNA evidence linking our indigenous peoples to Middle Eastern Hebrews. 2. The large bundle of anachronisms in the Book of Mormon. Even the book itself is an anachronism as to time, place, and culture. 3. The Book of Abraham is not a translation from the papyri which Joseph Smith possessed. All these major issues and more are fleshed out in many sources on line and in published books.

[@Thebishopsinterview]

@@billyates3226 yes…all of those issues followed these original concerns

[@lisagrace6471]

this.

[@randyjordan5521]

Interestingly, the church's own Gospel Topics essays admit that there is no relation between what is on the papyrii and the story that Joseph Smith wrote as the "Book of Abraham."

[@krakenfan6818]

@@randyjordan5521 And yet the church still includes it in their Standard Works.

[@randyjordan5521]

@@krakenfan6818 Well, what choice do they have? If they admit that the BOA is bogus, that would lead them down the slippery slope to admitting that the BOM is fake too. And that would be the end of Mormonism.

[@CarlosOrtiz-sr5uu]

The mormon church?

[@ScottBowen-jf9df]

Did you never feel like you had the spirit in your life being active?

[@tamihutchings2537]

Have you watched Mormon stories podcast with the DNA TEST of American Indians. They do a great podcast too. Thanks for your story. Helps us alot now that we have left also

[@WildPelivan]

I enjoyed your videos at first, but now it seems like you’re just trying to get attention and encourage others to leave. We can all agree that the Church has some problems and things to work out, but if the Lord is still trying to work through this church, or if it’s the best church we have on the earth, maybe we should be patient and not make fun of it and not do or say things that encourages others to leave it or hate it. These kind of things affect the trajectory of others’ lives as well as their family’s. Personally, I don’t want to be held accountable for anyone leaving the church. I don’t want that on my shoulders. I wouldn’t think you would either.

[@harlanlang6556]

Any church built on lies is not good for the people. If I were in Nathan's position, I would feel guilty that I had influenced people to believe in something that was not the truth, and I would want to make things right with those people. Being silent about a fraud makes you somewhat complicate.

[@WildPelivan]

@@harlanlang6556 like I mentioned in my first comment, there are definitely valid concerns and issues, however, there is also truth and goodness in our church. Fraud? Depends on which doctrines you embrace-Joseph’s or Brigham’s.

[@loriechristiansen9710]

Bishop do you seriously don’t think with all the Native Americans and all the Hebrew descendants put here upon this continent but other records aren’t written by other people relayed into the other books

[@MormonRescue]

Interesting video, and I empathize with a lot of your concerns. However, you seem to use the "shotgun" approach - throwing a whole bunch of disparate things against the issue hoping one of them sticks. Many of your accusations rely on the truth of the words of LDS leaders and members (if you believe them, why don't you *believe* them?), or on late or questionable sources by motivated writers. I would enjoy this much more if you actually did *original* research, found source documents, and thought through the implications of each of your statements. If "x" is true, what does that mean for "y"? Who if anyone was actually telling the truth? What IS the truth? And why does any of this matter? I appreciate your sincerity and earnestness. Imo, every LDS and ex-LDS person has really good reasons for questioning everything, and possibly throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Best of luck finding your way forward.

[@randyjordan5521]

Many historians over the last 150+ years have studied original source documents and done original research. One of the most knowledgeable and credible being Fawn Brodie, author of "No Man Knows My History: The Life of Joseph Smith, The Mormon Prophet." If you're interested in studying historical source documents, I recommend you check out Dale Broadhurst's Mormon Classics E-Texts website. Or the Utah Lighthouse Missions website archive. Or a website called Mormonthink. I've been studying Mormon history regularly for 28 years. I can assure you that everything Nathan Hinckley mentioned in this video is authentic, and has been published by numerous historians over many years.

[@lotion_laura]

I read on the church gospel library app about different accounts of the first vision. In 1832, he wrote that the Lord appeared to him when he was 16. In 1838, he wrote that two personages appeared to him when he was 15. So, why did he change his story?

[@randyjordan5521]

@@lotion_laura It's because he made it up. Nobody who knew Joseph Smith in the 1820s recalled that he told them about having any visit from God and/or Jesus. The only accounts talk about his story that the angel Nephi/Moroni appeared to him to tell him about his future mission and the golden plates. In fact, Joseph's mother and his brother William both stated that Joseph's interest in religion was spurred by the preaching of circuit rider George Lane. But Lane did not begin preaching in the Palmyra area until 1823. So when you consider that Joseph didn't even begin making claims of a visit from God/Jesus until 1832, he was simply inconsistent in the time frame and the details of his made-up experience. If someone cannot relate an alleged event the same way twice, that means they made it up.

[@MormonRescue]

@@randyjordan5521 How many of the different accounts of the first vision were written in Joseph's own handwriting, "found" during his actual lifetime? That's a very good place to start. I don't at this time believe any of his accounts personally, but there is much more to this story than just Joseph Smith.... A lot of these overly-simplistic "I know for a fact" assertions in the exmo community are narrow-minded at best.

[@lotion_laura]

@@MormonRescue I guess you think the church's own website and app are hacked. Wake up.

[@kennethharrison4847]

Good greif I heard all this when 14 this stuff happening even today when you see modern authors and even in anceint times. It's called how everyone learned to read and write.

[@Commenter2121]

Nathan, how old were you when you first learned about Joseph’s polygamy?

[@Thebishopsinterview]

@@Commenter2121 so…it was my understanding that he taught it and Brigham lived it. I didn’t learn about the 33 wives and the rest of the stuff until I was 44. Almost 2 years ago

[@Commenter2121]

@ I feel you, it can very painful to find these things out. I was always taught that polygamy was a later addition by Brigham Young in Utah. I was early 30’s when I learned that Joseph had anything to do with polygamy, let alone the details.

[@Commenter2121]

@@Thebishopsinterview Polygamy has been a major issue for me too. Luckily, there are some issues within our history on polygamy that are being corrected. For example, the happiness letter is not from Joseph Smith. I’m not saying that Joseph had nothing to do with it but much of the narrative is being revisited.

[@Thebishopsinterview]

@ you got a source for that?

[@Commenter2121]

@ I should clarify, this letter has always been controversial, but more people are determining that it is not from Joseph. Gerritt Dirkmatt is a good source on this, and he’s a very faithful church historian. This is highly likely to be a Jon Bennett forgery.

[@scottandkylie6386]

In regards to the BoM and the late war, history always repeats almost the same or similar every time! How do you know that JS even read these books? He couldn't even read properly for crying out loud! Many Jews have been fighting for the cause of liberty / freedom since their existence! All these other people who declared they had seen a vision of HF and JC what was their message to them? What did they have to do for them? Because Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ both appearing must certainly of been for a great reason? What was these other peoples great assignments? The tree of life, I had a prophetic dream of that vision in around 2002 it was very symbolic and carried a great message with it about my grandmother and my mother! God has given me many dreams and visions that have had importance to them! I even dreamt in 2003 that Gordon B Hinckley was a homosexual and he had fallen into the filthy water where rainbow coloured lights were being displayed further into the water. It wasn't until 2023 that I watched a documentary about Gordon B Hinckley and one of the Hunter men and them hiring prostitutes. The under age male prostitutes were hired for Hinckley. This doc was released by an investigator who was fearing for his life! The leaders of the church are apostates and BY and other apostles killed JS and HS! This is to much God will reveal whatever he wants whenever he wants to whomever he wants, old Testament, New testament, BoM, visions, dreams etc! JS did not have plural wives!! BY coned woman into marrying him by promising them that they could be sealed to either JS or HS for all eternity!! Emma Smith, her children, Lucy Mack Smith and many others went to their graves denying that JS or HS were adulterers' You need to go to Hemlock Knots and Rob Fatheringham!

[@harlanlang6556]

Joseph's brother Hyrum went to Dartmouth College and shared what he learned with Joseph.