Why I'm NOT buying the Pyxis 6K... YET!

Tell me your thoughts down below!
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[@thomasjmcclure]

I keep calling the Viltrox E mount an EF mount, my bad that i kept getting that mixed up!

[@TheKiakiraly]

no ND, no stabilization, no Prores or other formats, no HDMI... I'm staying with my trusty S1H

[@MtZionMediaPro]

If that's what works for you then that's perfect. This camera is not for everyone, but it's perfect for me!

[@billyoung9538]

... it's 13 stops of DR after some the noise floor is removed, aka usable pre NR. If one adds even basic NR they will be sitting in the same place as a Sony A7S III when at it's low gain setting. edit: just to clarify the sensors full DR including noise floor of the 6k FF, aka the same sensor as the pyxis, was 14.7 stops at its low base and 15.7 stops at its high base. The sensors full DR of the A7S III is 14.6 stops at its low base and 15.5 at its high base. The A7S III has noise reduction that is always on, and that recovers roughly 1-2 stops of DR from noise, and applying a similar NR in post for the 6k would give a similar result. edit: I noticed I made a typo in the A7S III's low base. I've fixed it.

[@cfl4286]

Where are you getting this information. Lab tests from cine d have shown 12.5 stops of DR for the A7SIII and 12.9 for the 6K full frame. That’s all at a signal to noise ratio of 2, and, yes, as you stated the noise reduction in the Sony can’t be turned off.

[@billyoung9538]

@@cfl4286 the numbers you are referring to are the signal to noise ratios. Typically a SN ratio of 2 is usable out of camera, and a SN ratio of 1 is usable with a little bit of noise reduction; however, these are just general rules. The patch range is the entire DR potential of the tested sensor, and if one could find a way to successfully eliminate all noise then that is the maximum DR the sensor could possible produce under the given conditions. If a manufacture claims 15 stops and the patch range is only 14.5 stops at a given gain level (iso) then 15 sops simply can not be achieved no matter how much noise was removed; however, if the camera has a second gain level that improves the patch range to 15.5 stops then at that iso with the elimination of almost all sensor noise it might be possible for the camera to achieve 15 stops, but the source image would likely lack a lot of detail and the SN ratio would likely be much lower than 1 requiring a lot of noise reduction as well. While theoretically possible, it's not something one is likely able to achieve consistently. Anyhow if one looks at the Camera Database on Cine-D they can see the SN 1, SN 2 and Patch range for each cameras sensor. I should also point out that some cameras like the A7S III and FX3 have built in noise reduction where as the Blackmagic cameras do not. By having integrated NR in the camera it will almost always recover at least one additional stop over the same sensor without noise reduction. This can be seen if one compares the FX6 to the A7S III and FX3, because all 3 cameras have the same sensor, but only the FX6 doesn't have built in noise reduction that is always on. Thus it's SN1 and SN2 DR ranges are roughly 1 stop lower than the other two cameras; however, if one adds a similar amount of NR in post they can achieve near identical results from the FX6. While there are other variables when shifting to other sensors and camera brands, the fundamental principal of adding some type of NR in post to extend the DR potential of any given camera up to it's patch range maximum holds true. I hope this helps.

[@billyoung9538]

@@LukeBroadhurstfilm Umm, that has nothing to do with dynamic range, and everything to do with converting the information into a 12bit Log RAW. If one is unfamiliar with how perceptive light is naturally exponential and thus only needs to use 12 bits to store 16 bits worth of data simply type ln(2^16) into a calculator and one will see that one only needs just over 11 bits for 16 bits worth of natural log data. This is the exact same reason classic ARRI RAW is also only a 12bit Log RAW, and I guarantee that it has more than 13 stops of dynamic range. The new ARRI RAW for the Alexa35 has been increased to a 14bit Log RAW for the additional dynamic range potential; however, I'm guessing ARRI must be doing it wrong with their formats as well.

[@michelebulesic7551]

@billy this is the same sensor used in the a7iii back in 2018

[@billyoung9538]

@@michelebulesic7551 A sensor is only part of a camera though. As a prime example the Pyxis and Cinema Camera 6k have the same sensor, but most traditional cinematographers will gravitate to the Pyxis because it's a more flexible design.

[@SoCalPresa]

They said the mounting is not switchable unfortunately. The blackmagic rep pretty much said to think ahead of time as once you buy the body, you are locked into the lens mount

[@livestreamsuk6004]

Cant you adapt E - EF mount? Wishing for L mount for my Z Cam S6 Battery is perfect for gimbal you can get V mount adaptors readily

[@Damageonthestack]

This camera looks awesome for a great price, but after watching your breakdown and others, nothing I've seen has convinced me to upgrade from my BMPCC4k. Also, spend a couple hours playing around with Resolve - if the one-time purchase price (or free with a camera purchase) and free updates for life doesn't get you, just how great that program is will :-)

[@thomasjmcclure]

I have it from when i bought my bmpcc 4K. I’m just slow at it and haven’t given myself time to learn it. But definitely will with 19

[@simplyheen1150]

Just pointing out that when buying a BMD product, you don't necessarily get the Studio version for free, as when reselling it you WILL have to deduct the full Studio price if you plan to keep it.

[@Damageonthestack]

@@simplyheen1150 I just saw a brand new BMPCC4k with studio on ebay for $950. So when someone buys it, then a year from now sells it without studio, is the sale price supposed to be $650? If so, I'll buy it :-)

[@simplyheen1150]

@@Damageonthestack gotta double check that if that's a scam or not, but yeah realistically, without Studio and brand-new status, a used BMPCC 4K is rather cheap.

[@2ndgenentertainment]

@@simplyheen1150learned this from selling mine due to my family needing the money. I’ll probably cop another one as a studio camera shortly.

[@josephasghar]

I have a ZCam - the battery life and app are superb! This BM looks flashy, but I wonder what more it will give you.

[@rickseigh460]

I have one on order. I purchased the 6k ff when it came out and I loved its image quality but three things really bothered me about it and I sold it. I never owned a BlackMagic camera before so I really didn't like the form factor, the battery life sucked, it didn't have a dedicated TC port. I sold it and then along comes the Pyxis so I ordered with the L mount. I have mostly L mount glass with a set of Irix cinema lenses in EF mount. The 6k FF worked great with my Sirui anamorphic in L mount so I can't wait to use it on the new camera. One thing that's always over rated is dynamic range. I never cared what my DR spec was as you should always light your scene. When you control your light you probably only need about 8 - 9 stops depending on your production. This obviously doesn't apply to run and gun shooting where you have no idea what you're getting into but this doesn't look like a run and gun camera to me.

[@twowheelslife5611]

What about the heavy crop shooting at just 50p (while 48p are still decent)?

[@andresgonzalezserson]

i have the Zcam F6 and the ISO performance is AMAZING i can only compare it with the FX3, if this camera don't have at least decent ISO performance over 6400 or maybe decent auto focus i dont see reason to change it

[@Lumin8Productions]

Also to touch base on power, if the camera draws around 38 watts, you can easily do the math on the battery life by checking the Wh (Watt Hours) of the battery, there are 3 BP batteries on the market, and at that rating, the smallest battery will get about 1.2 hours, the middle 955 battery should get about 2 hours, and the big BP 975 should get around 2.6-3 hours.

[@BuddyBruce]

Love channel man

[@thomasjmcclure]

Thanks man!

[@alexfournier9956]

Just got the BMPC 6K PRO which is awesome.. but having many l mount lens from my panasonic S1H maybe i ll also move on to this new model full frame;;; let s wait for the tests !!

[@waveland]

In my case I have an Ursa Broadcast 6K and want to shed some of the bulk, in which case the PL version of the Pyxis fits my needs perfectly for the sorts of projects I tackle most of the time. From all I can gather, the sensor is the same as you’ll find in the BMCC which came out last year and so the performance characteristics are well known. Just keep in mind that most BM cameras prioritize a lower price over sensor performance which means one way or another you have to manage the light characteristics of your scene and you won’t have a camera optimized for car chases. For action you’ll need a Komodo X at three times the price; and to recover loads of highlights and shadows you can always grab a Venice or ARRI for 10+ times the cost. But if you need affordable camera to cloud, or the ability to stream a production feed directly from a camera, or want to run remote over IP, and want the most readable menu system of any camera, and have the ability to add an OLED EVF (with included 15mm top rails) that’s upwards compatible with the new 12k cameras, not to mention the P3+ color space available in the Gen 5 color science or the flexibility of BRAW. And for those who don’t have it already, there’s a full studio license of Davinci Resolve which can easily replace Premiere these days while possibly eliminating an Adobe CC license. That’s a huge money saver in and of itself.

[@Lumin8Productions]

Enjoyed the vid - one thing I'd like to chime in on if it's ok. Not sure, to this day why 13 vs 14 vs 15 stops of dynamic range is viewed in the way that it is. No tv's or monitors even show more than about 8-10 stops anyways, anything beyond that is really just extra room in editing for less controlled environments. I hope one of you KZbin influencer etc. start to really dig into understand dynamic range more so it's not so criticized unnecessarily. Not to mention, there is the argument of the actual quality of the dynamic range, not all dynamic range is equal, id take a 13 stop camera with incredibly smooth highlight roll off all day over a 15 stop camera with harsh roll off. Food for thought.

[@thomasjmcclure]

Interesting points yeah, I’ve always assumed people talk about dynamic range with regard to editing flexibility when filming in tough lighting conditions, rather than what may be able to be displayed. Or at least that’s what I assumed lol. That’s why I’m excited to wait and see what kind of quality we get with it as far as highlight roll off etc. thanks for the input!

[@andynonimuss6298]

Dynamic range is mostly marketing hype for an idealistic situation. Dynamic range and any number they see is not understood by the average shooter. When lab tested, most cameras are averaging 12.5 stops of "usable" DR at best. This includes most of the lower tier REDs and ARRIs as well.

[@xl9119]

I was already thinking of buying another Zcam F6 but pro version with SDI out ports. now bm released the Pyxis with sdi out, I might pick bm or wait to find a cheaper used Zcam pro

[@thomasjmcclure]

Dude I’d love an F6 Pro. It looks awesome, but it is quite a bit more expensive unfortunately, I may try rent them down the line and do a comparison

[@xl9119]

@@thomasjmcclure true. I think the Zcam still has more dynamic range, internal eND and better Fall off in highlights. hope they will drop the price soon, to compete with black magic. if the price would be

[@DynamicPhil84]

Love your desk and lighting setup, very clean! I made a video about this camera on my channel where I expressed intrigue but overall frustration due to the fixed side screen. I feel like this camera is targeted at single operators, not crews with a 1st AC and so forth. For that reason, having to arch your head over to the side of the camera or turn it to the side to adjust settings, then turn or arch back to view the image on a top mounted external monitor is not going to work from me. I can already feel the neck strain LOL. I'm fine with a fixed screen for menu control (I own a Komodo and Z Cam F6 too!), but it has to be on the top. I will say though that the sensor is really nice, I have tested the 6K FF and it performs nicely in low light and has great DR. So maybe the 13 stops is more like 13 "usable" stops. Not sure. But the image and sensor will be great. Btw, are you using Sony glass on your Z Cam F6 and if so how????

[@Wildridefilms]

I think you're focussing a bit too much on the DR number claims. Blackmagic have always been pretty conservative about DR claims. This Pyxis has the same sensor as the FX9, which Sony claims to capture 15+ stops. Do you really think a camera with the same sensor with RAW recording added on top will be 2 stops worse in DR? Sony and RED inflate their numbers in DR. The Alexa mini LF claims to have 14 stops of DR vs 16 stops on the RED komodo. In actual testing, the Alexa has almost 2 stops more DR.

[@gearienoxcuses3936]

Hello, please excuse my general rant in advanced 😅. 1st the monitor is on the wrong side of the camera for a 1 AC to access. 2nd I to wish they could release a top mounted small 5” touch screen monitor power/data via USB-C. 3rd the side monitor is taking up Realestate that could have been home to a double xlr input, and internal NDs. The monitor is not needed where it is currently located. I would have rathered a larger version of the red Komodo’s top monitor than on the side. 4th Still not an ideal design for gimbal work due to a poorly designed monitor location for functionality. 5th I have been a BMD user since they introduced the BMCC 2.5k and love the company for what it represents but this box camera has been requested from loyal users ever since the BMPCC4k was delivered and after all of that time we are still not receiving 1 of the most requested features from BM users and that is a function monitor. Thanks

[@Rak500]

I wrote a point by point reply to your rant, then realised it boiled down to one thing: Why not simply buy a Red camera if it already has all you need?

[@andynonimuss6298]

Traditionally, the 1st AC worked on the left side of the camera.

[@ChrisParayno]

If you have the pocket 6k and 6k pro, while the body seems to be a welcome change, it is not worth the upgrade.

[@petercofrancesco9812]

If you notice most of the people promoting the camera haven't bought it or it was loaned or given to them. Even this guy doesn't even use BM and he's promoting it. I'm not sure who's buying this camera since it's a repackaged Pocket 6k without internal ND and ProRes. Camera like the FX6 is far more flexible where as the Pyxis is narrowly designed for rigged cinema. It's also in an odd middle ground with no ND and low dynamic range for a cinema camera.

[@AkillaReed]

13 Stops of Dynamic Range is quite low compared to other competitors, but what I don't understand is your comparison. Both the cameras you use are in the 13 stops range, while the Red Komodo which you for some reason added to the low dynamic range category can see up to 15+ stops. Weird to make a comment like that and not include your low dynamic range cameras.

[@thomasjmcclure]

No no I was not adding the Komodo to the “low dynamic range category”, quite the opposite, I was saying it has great DR, same with newer Sony cine cameras or even hybrids. I was saying that it’s a little disappointing that the Pyxis isn’t as good as some of those in that specific area

[@AkillaReed]

@@thomasjmcclure My apologies I completely misunderstood your statement. I thought you were saying that the Sonys, Komodo and blackmigic are low Dynamic range

[@angeloplayforone]

Good point. Against what and which price he is comparing?

[@thomasjmcclure]

@AkillaReed haha no worries, I mumble and speak too fast. Just went back to double check what I said, I intended to say that if you are a Sony or Komodo shooter, then 13 stops isn’t really enough. As in if dynamic range is super important to you, and you have a Sony camera, Komodo or an ursa, you probably wouldn’t want to switch to the Pyxis as it has much lower DR

[@kamikaze1213]

@@thomasjmcclureI use an F55. You’ve seen that camera as the A cam on Insidious 3, Deliver us from evil, the ENTIRE series of the Blacklist. Sony rates the F55 at 14 stops. It’s actual is around 11. So tell me, why is 13 stops so low? I want to hear what you guys are shooting that needs 15+ stops of true DR. Enlighten me. Because this BS around DR needs to stop.

[@larrybuskey2215]

I think this camera uses Sony style NP batteries vs the Canon cinema camera type you say here.

[@twowheelslife5611]

BPU batteries, unfortunately (but understandably) not NPF.

[@GarCorStudio]

Enjoy your common sense takes. It never registered that you own zcam since I followed you because of your canon c100 video and I had recently purchased a used c100 mk1 from a neighbor. But my main cameras are a Zcam e2s6 and lumix s5. I feel this Blackmagic Pyxis will make a decent pairing with zcam. Keep up the good work.

[@thomasjmcclure]

Thanks man!

[@AdamSzarmack]

The times I would need a first AC would be I’m moving around with the camera, not when I’m on sticks. The side screen is useless in a run and gun scenario.

[@thomasjmcclure]

I don’t think the monitor is designed to be used as the primary viewing monitor for the camera, i think they’re expecting people to use it as a camera controls monitor, I’m assuming they’re expecting people to rig a monitor on top of

[@AdamSzarmack]

@@thomasjmcclure sure, the DP will use a mounted monitor but people keep saying the side screen could be a good screen for a first AC which still wouldn’t work in any typical situation you’d even need an AC.

[@livestreamsuk6004]

The side screen is perfect for long form and interviews!

[@Ruffedges]

How would one even think to use a side screen (that isn't even designed for primary monitoring) on a $3K camera with a first AC in a run and gun situation? Like that makes no sense. Most box shaped cameras don't even have a monitoring feed on the screens, only numbers and menu settings,, and some don't have screens at all on the body. Just having something that you may be able to monitor for static shots like interviews or product shots is a bonus to be thankful for.

[@livestreamsuk6004]

@@Ruffedges 100% They could have left the screen off completely and would still be a bargain

[@StringerBell2002]

On this camera the monitor is on the Operator side of the camera. The AC side is the opposite side.

[@thomasjmcclure]

Fair point, seems to be a lot of discussion on that as to which side is AC side. But each to their own

[@andynonimuss6298]

Traditionally, the 1st AC worked on the left side of the camera.

[@barneykrantz4512]

Anyone know anything about this cameras Auto focus? Thanks in advance!

[@d_FLDE]

Not existing. It Is the same camera as the 6k FF

[@jaynumber4444]

Technically Blackmagic cameras do have autofocus, but not CONTINUOUS autofocus. You can push a button to autofocus on your subject. This is can be useful when shooting interviews or when locked down on sticks. It’s also nice when remote controlling a Blackmagic camera through one of their ATEM switchers. Just wanted to add some clarification to the OP question.

[@OfficialSLKL]

I love your channel! Keep up the good work man. God bless you and great that you’re also building the Kingdom of God in your local church. Greetings from The Netherlands!

[@Sneaky-Sneaky]

What about audio? I think it only has one mini xlr Jack…..that’s very hard to understand and irritating….

[@thomasjmcclure]

I did notice that, we will see what it can do. Personally I never used the two on the 6k pro, and don’t know anyone who ever used it, i almost always record my main audio externally anyway and only ever use on camera mics for scratch audio

[@Sneaky-Sneaky]

@@thomasjmcclure I can see it wouldn’t make much difference for your work….thanks

[@twowheelslife5611]

They had to cut the cost of one connector haha

[@youngonestudio]

13 stops is on the lower end of what you want 😂😂 gets bout the same as what the Venice mkii nets. Want more, get a 35 or ursa cine. Komodo x gets 12.8, VV x gets about 13.5. Mini LF will get you 14

[@mr.bigglesworthyoumagnific4281]

I was excited until I found out it only records in RAW!..mega files ALL the time..huh, NO..

[@geargeekpdx3566]

It's under 3 grand FFS !!!!

[@colinthomas2525]

This is to add perspective for people who are complaining about the dynamic range of the pyxis. So here is cineD dynamic range test done to a signal to noise ration of 2. The new bmcc6k gets a score of 11.7 so the pyxis will be the same as it the same sensor. A $3000 camera can’t get much more DR. The bmpcc og had a score of 11.2 and it’s 10 years old. Sure a $25000-$80000 camera has you are willing to pay a whole lot more a true DR of 13-15. 1 ARRI ALEXA 35 15.3 2 ARRI ALEXA Classic 13.8 3 RED V-RAPTOR 8K VV 13.7 4 ARRI ALEXA Mini LF 13.5 5 Sony VENICE 2 8K. 13.2 6 Canon EOS C500 MII 13.1 7 Sony Alpha a7 IV 12.9 8 FUJIFILM GFX100 II 12.8 9 Canon EOS C300 MIII 12.8 10 Canon EOS C70 12.8 11 RED V-RAPTOR [X] 8K VV 12.8 12 Panasonic LUMIX S1H 12.7 13 Sony Alpha a1 12.7 14 Blackmagic Design URSA Mini Pro 4.6K G2 12.6 15 Blackmagic Design URSA Mini Pro 4.6K 12.6 16 RED KOMODO 6K 12.5 17 DJI Ronin 4D 6K 12.4 18 Sony Alpha a7S III 12.4 19 Sony ZV-E1 12.4 20 Sony Alpha a7CR 12.4

[@twowheelslife5611]

Has the same DR of the old Pocket 6k, which had an even older sensor and wasn't even "full frame". Is not unusable, but to me is a rather disappointing result.

[@colinthomas2525]

@@twowheelslife5611 of course more would be better but a significant jump in DR would lead to a significant price jump as well. The top 13 from the cineD DR test are all way more expensive than the Pyxis except for the Sony a7iv which has amazing DR for its price point but Sony makes the sensors them selves and they are a way bigger company. The point is any camera made in the last like 5 years has enough DR and resolution to be used in a Hollywood movie if somebody wanted it to. We all need to focus less on the gear and more on our craft. I’m just a beginner so I’m just using a bmpcc og until I can justify the jump to the Pyxis.

[@twowheelslife5611]

@@colinthomas2525 All good, yes DR is still more than enough for many scenarios. What bothers me the most actually is the slow readout sensor that doesn't even allow for 50p without heavily cropping in. And the only Braw codec available.

[@alanlavery]

As someone who shoots on the Pocket 4K + Pocket 6K for doc style and corporate the form factor change is extremely welcome. I get the gripe around the sensor, but I only shoot 25p so that doesn't bother me - could care less about slow mo. However it still looks great coming out of Blackmagic tuned to its colour science. I've only ever needed BRAW also personally, haven't had any issues with agency work with BRAW, even if they're not used to it I just add a ReadMe file with links out to relevant plugins etc or workflow they need. The Open Gate is super useful for the social content also but I think with it there's potential for Video Portraiture also in that 3:2 format. I rented out the CC6K for its open gate recently for an editorial shoot, and used camera in vertical with 3:2 to capture a Moving Magazine Cover - which of course for that A4 size standard 16:8/17:9 ratios are far too thin. If you're shooting vertical content then perfect placement for the screen as it would sit on the top. What makes this perfect for what I do, because of how small and cheap it is that I could quite happily pack 3 of these with batteries and limited accessories/audio and lenses into one suit camera case, have another suitcase for lighting and a bag for tripods / stands - no more unnecessary rigging and bulky accessories, and you really wouldn't need a screen for any of them when put on sticks into a 3 cam interview set up, unless you had 2 on sticks and just one floating cam with a top handle + screen. Easily can mount this to a superclamp for creative angles too, and just know one BPU battery on each will last up to 3 hours. You simply can't do that on the hybrid's realistically or the pockets (I usually take them rigged out in separate backpacks to save time on set. It's not a revolutionary camera - but it is an exceptionally useful change, for those that like this system.

[@Sethmotley]

This camera is for filmmakers. bloggers Not Allowed 😂

[@petero1068]

13 stops of dynamic range isn’t really that good.

[@olivertrees]

advertised doesn't matter. It's the same sensor as the BMCC 6K and the Lumix's

[@thomasjmcclure]

It’s definitely not as much as people would hope for yeah. We will see how it performs in person!

[@mariotriforce]

We allready know how it will perform tho

[@andynonimuss6298]

Dynamic range is mostly marketing hype for an idealistic situation. Dynamic range and any number they see is not understood by the average shooter. When lab tested, most cameras are averaging 12.5 stops of "usable" DR at best. This includes most of the lower tier REDs and ARRIs as well.

[@petero1068]

@@andynonimuss6298 yes, in 2015. #Progress.

[@antonarap]

As if you could afford it🤣🤣🤣

[@thomasjmcclure]

What a strange comment

[@2424rocket]

Pyxis… Bad rolling shutter/bad dynamic range/bad low light/and a four-year-old sensor!

[@Wildridefilms]

Bad dynamic range, lol. Please do not look at the claimed DR numbers only. Blackmagic are pretty conservative about their DR numbers unlike RED or Sony.

[@ocfilmsdotcom]

This is a huge disappointment for us. Notice I say "for us", because different people and different productions require different tools. We tend to shoot a lot of branded, corporate, run n gun b-roll style, etc. We've shot with the original BMCC back since 2013 and had the URSA and Pocket 4Ks and even though it wasn't the perfect tool for what we do, we've adapted it to be able to use them because of that sweet ProRes coming out of BMD cameras was just so amazing!! -- So we left BMD a few years ago for Canon C70s because its the perfect tool for what we shoot day in and day out. For our larger commercials, we use Arri. -- Yet we've been waiting for a while now to get back to BMD and ProRes. -- Well, you know the rest. Braw only, which is a huge bummer because we can't now easily hand off footage to certain clients and even though internal NDs might not be a big deal to some, it is a HUGE deal for the type of stuff we shoot here in sunny Southern California. We're not throwing matte boxes or screwing in ND filters on lenses. Internal NDs is one of those things that when you have them the first time and see its use and practicality, you'd never want to go back..

[@andynonimuss6298]

You can export ProRes from Fusion within DaVinci Resolve.