Why I'm saying NO to tubeless! For the moment!

[@sventice]

I tried tubeless for a while, but after a fairly disastrous roadside puncture that featured spraying sealant, a tire that was almost impossible to get back on the rim, rain, and copious amounts of swearing, I decided tubeless wasn't something I wanted to continue using. I certainly don't want to ride in constant dread of another major roadside puncture that is difficult or impossible to repair. But even without that incident, tubeless was more trouble than it was worth: the performance isn't measurably better, and tubeless tires, being necessarily very thick and rigid, are insanely hard to mount and not very comfortable to ride unless you do it at very low pressures. I've since switched to clinchers with TPU tubes and am very much happier.

[@veganpotterthevegan]

80k tubeless road miles and I've never had a tire come off the rim unless I took it off to throw a rarely needed tube in.

[@veganpotterthevegan]

Also, apples to apples tires, tubeless tires are thinner than tubed clinchers of the same model. That's why track cyclists are running tubeless tires with tubes on the velodrome now

[@Matthew-ez4ze]

The guys running tubeless have more goofy problems with their tires that are actually pretty funny. My favorite are the "leakers" that start slowly squirting the sealant all over the rear of their bikes until there's a mess of white goo spraying everywhere - including onto the glasses of the guy riding behind him. Once they finally realize their tire is flat, they whip out their little kit of spikes which they insert into the tire to stop the leak. They still need to carry CO2 to reinflate their tire. Needless to stay, I am sticking with tubes which have been just fine since I started riding over 35 years ago.

[@DaveCM]

That is a very rare thing to happen. The vast majority of the time, the leaks get sealed up without ever knowing it happened.

[@paulflory3532]

@@DaveCM I've seen it, so it can't be that rare.

[@zygmuntthecacaokakistocrat6589]

I bet you also use cherry-picked arguments as to why ICE cars are better than EVs. "I saw an EV on fire on the news the other day!" Similar (lack of) logical rigour, similar argumentation.

[@timdowney6721]

@@paulflory3532 LOL. So, you must really be ubiquitous. 🤦‍♂️

[@veganpotterthevegan]

Living in goathead country, I got 3-4 flats a week with tubes. I've even had a double flat on my own block leaving my house. Now? I still get those same puctures but I keep riding. I rarely need to plug a tire...maybe 2-3x throughout its lifespan. I get sealant on my frame but I totally don't care compared to needing to swap a tube on what can be less than safe location with traffic

[@OGillo2001]

Road tubeless - Solving a problem we never had.

[@spdaltid]

Tubeless is great for a one-day-stand, but not for any meaningful long term relationship. Too much drama. With 8 bikes, I avoid the bukkake and cheese. I just use tubes: I'm happy to fix the 2-3 flats per season.

[@LVTN979]

2-3 flat per season, vs 2-3 flats per.... 5 years. And those flats just got fixed with a plug, in 10 seconds. No more tubes for me.

[@festerofest4374]

Screw that messy crap. For my gravel bike I can easily carry a couple of TPU tubes. I won't get dragged into the waxed chain thing either.... I can get my chain and drivetrain components incredibly clean with my air compressor, Park Cyclone chain cleaner, citrus degreaser and garden hose in a few minutes (then dry with air), all without having to remove the chain or wheel from the bike.

[@ralphc1405]

Citrus cleaner LOL. Us old timers us old t-shirts and gasoline.

[@ZebraLemur]

Drip wax. Zero cleaning, ever

[@festerofest4374]

@@ralphc1405 A gallon of ZEP is $12 delivered via Amazon, and I can just rinse it onto the ground....I'm not gonna stink up my yard dripping gasoline all over. It gets rid of the grease/dirt then you just rinse with water -- How much nicer to use can it get?! *Bonus, can smoke a post-ride cigar whilst cleaning the bike, unlike with gasoline.

[@wesleyvandeurzen7199]

The golden combo for road are 'ridenow' Tpu tubes with vittoria corsa control tyres(not tlr). been riding for 2 years. NO PUNCTURES. daily commuting to university. Had times were I gashed my sidewall on sharp object expecting it to puncture only to check after the ride and see that the sidewall did have a massive slash on it but it didn't go through! Also TPU tubes are much more resistant to snake bite punctures and they roll faster! Win win win in my books.

[@Gabrielle4870]

I'm running the same. I've had flats but very rarely. Definitely less than when I ran butyl.

[@SignorLuigi]

I also use RideNow TPU tubes but with Conti GP5000 tires. Absolutely sublime combination. I have had one puncture in two years and was quickly able to replace the punctured RideNow tube with a new one from my repair kit. The fact that TPU tubes take up so little space is another big plus of this set-up.

[@Gabrielle4870]

@@SignorLuigi I save that combo for races as there's just too much crap on the roads where I ride.

[@RoadCyclingAdam]

Exactly my experience with tubeless. Spent an hour last weekend cleaning everything and swapping back to tubes

[@Forest_velo]

I’ve been back and forth a few times 😂

[@Paganiproductions84]

Tubeless work only good whit lower pressures than run whit tubes

[@mpvsystems9302]

I agree with your assessment. As I see it, just because something is new, does not mean it is better. When I started racing over 40 years ago, we raced on expensive tubs and trained on cheap clinchers. After about 10 years, I realized that I was getting many more flats (mostly pinch flats) with the clinchers over comparable mileage. I also loved the comfort, lighter weight and superior performance of the tubs, so I ditched the clinchers and standardized on tubs for all my riding. Old race wheels with repaired tubs became my training wheels. Life with one type of wheel and tire turned out to be a lot simpler and I spent less time at the side of the road. I carry a pre-glued tub under my seat or in my saddle bag and have found I can change a tire in about half the time it takes to replace an inner tube in a clincher with no need to search for and remove for the debris that caused the puncture (or risk a second flat). Early on I learned how to open and repair a tubular in under 20 minutes. Tubeless may be okay for low pressure tires, but it is the least reliable of the options on a road bike. Clinchers are the harsh riding low cost option, but tubs win hands down for comfort, weight, performance, no pinch flats and fastest roadside change. The argument that tubs are just too expensive in a world where wheels and bikes cost thousands is somewhat of joke in my opinion. Cheers/

[@Forest_velo]

Thanks for your comments! I guess tubs will soon be hard to source?

[@richardhale9664]

I won't argue with you over your opinion that tubs are the best option for performance and comfort, but you can get really good clinchers these days which are both fast and comfortable - though not cheap! On the same rims Continental GP5000 and butyl tubes in 25mm are faster and more comfortable than the wretched Hutchinson 25 or 28mm tubeless tyres I tried for a couple of years before giving up on tubeless - and a lot less hassle.

[@craigbrown2989]

I've retrofitted drum brakes to my 2024 Porsche

[@mpvsystems9302]

@@Forest_velo still the only choice for track racing and still readily available. Nothing else can hold the required pressure and offer as low a frontal area. Also, no liquids are allowed near a track surface. At least two pro road teams are still quietly using tubs. They know they the benefits despite the desire of their tire sponsors to promote tubeless.

[@MrTonio1962]

Inner tubes for me, road and gravel. Tubeless seems like an unreliable faff. I learnt how to change or patch inner tubes a long time ago and know all the swear roads needed when doing so at the roadside. Nice garden!

[@Forest_velo]

Thanks! 😃. It’s great when it works.. a real pain when it doesn’t!

[@iancarson8614]

after a year on tubeless, with the messy hassle, topping up, gummed up valves, not blowing onto the rim, i've spent this season on TPU tubes with 32mm tyres. light, easy, not messy, and no flats so far.

[@Nosh_Feratu]

Same. Spent a while on tubeless a few years back, but since TPU tubes came out its been a no brainer for me, you can easily just carry 2 spares in jersey pocket, zero hassle. . whereas switching out rubber on a tubeless system is such a massive ballache, the biggest pain being you have to ensure you remove every tiny bit of dried rubber from the rims. Washing that stuff off everything isnt a nice experience either. getting it to seat can be a nightmare aswell. . .it all adds up to a massive headache.

[@MrCreamlover]

I have been running tubeless for 5 yrs and average 6000 mls a year never had a problem.Goodyear tubeless tyres are very bad. I either use the Giant or schwalbe tyres 25/28.Had 1 puncture a thorn in my rear tyre it sealed straight away and when i got home plugged it.The tyre since being plugged as done app 3000 miles without problems.So i would never go back to tube.

[@LVTN979]

yup, I rode around 40000km/24000 mls since I switched to tubeless, In total I had 3 punctures, 1 in road, 2 in gravel, that I had to stop and plug (and operation that takes 10 seconds + pumping) 13000Km per puncture is way better statistics that I ever had with tubes. No looking back.

[@valmorell]

Your experience mirrors my own. Ran tubeless on my road bike for 2 years, then just ran out of patience. Went back to tubes and never looked back. Since moving to the on point wider tyres 28/30/32, I have found punctures to be a much rarer occurrence too....

[@Forest_velo]

Good stuff!

[@pheel.the.fletcher]

GP 5000 32s and latex tube's here. Haven't had a flat or issues in my 2 years of riding it.

[@jameswebster1655]

I’ve been using tubeless for a few years. Never had any issues and I’ve completed countless Sportives and group rides. With tubeless it is best to ensure you have the right wheel rim with the right tubeless tyre. Some tubeless tires are better than others. I use Vittoria Corsa Control 30mm at 70 psi. I have completed some sportives and seen countless punctures with people using clincher tyres with inner tubes and had punctures myself but was able to keep riding due to the sealant doing its job. So my tips are: use a good wheel that can be tubeless or clincher, fit good quality tubeless tyres, ensure seated, use good quality sealant and carry a Dynplug plus pump. Also it’s great to have a good relationship with a local bike shop.

[@EzrbcinNV]

I have 3 road bikes that I rotate use. Only one is tubless. To me, tubeless is way too needy and really not worth the hassle. I think they still have a ways to go for higher pressure road tires before they can call it an improvement. Considering they have been out for years without being more user-friendly is strange. They are fine for gravel or mountain. Oh yeah, the sealant always gums up my air gouges too.

[@Forest_velo]

My thoughts too!

[@galenkehler]

Its kind of funny how people just forget about all the punctures that you dont even notice. Its not uncommon to completely wear out a tire without a single puncture, just thousands of miles of uninterrupted riding. The savings of tubes alone more.than pays for the entire cost of the tubeless tires, and i just ride around on buttery smooth fast tires.

[@helidude3502]

I was excited when I purchased a mountain bike with “tubeless” tires. I didn’t know anything about them on bicycles, but the thought of plugging a flat like a car tire seemed convenient. I’ve since learned more about tubeless tires on bicycles and not being a “professional rider”, I’m unable to see an advantage. I was so glad to discover that my bike was actually sold “tubeless ready”, but actually has tubes installed. I do want to learn to service tubeless tires correctly as I’m sure I will end up repairing for someone eventually. If I happen to purchase a bicycle that comes with tubeless installed, I will leave them alone as long as they hold air. But the first time that baby burps and spits up, a tube will be installed directly.

[@br5380]

I'm coming up to 20 years running tubeless on my MTB's, and when I started gravelling 5 years or so, tubeless of that too and just bought my first proper road wheels - yep, tubeless on them too. MTB

[@paulflory3532]

Tubeless has never made sense to me for the ROAD. Despite being old, I'm open to new technology if its plusses outweigh minuses (GPS computers, tail radar just two examples). Even though I run light tires (Panaracer Agilest normal and light) and light tubes (Conti Supersonic) I get few flats. Maybe years of riding have taught me to avoid bumps & holes and stay out of the debris on shoulders? Three things: (1) seems like a lot of additional muss and fuss fiddling with sealant and getting the bead to seal, especially during roadside repairs (2) a guy in a group I was riding with had a tubeless flat and we waited FOREVER while he struggled (3) Tadej Podacar had a rear tubeless flat during a race this year, the slippery sealant leaked out onto the tire, and he fell down on a (slow) curve.

[@Forest_velo]

Good points! 👍

[@M3GRSD]

I was a tube diehard for the longest time but after All the pinch flats... In one stretch, I got 3 flats within weeks of each other on my Madone SLR. I was stressed out, and I needed to do something different. I'm a tubeless believer now after going over a year with only one such occasion where the sealant was used and I lost some pressure. I was still able to ride to a shop over 5 miles away and get it fixed up so I could keep riding the rest of my 30-mile trip. I don't have a set of hookless wheels, so the blowouts I've seen on KZbin aren't really a concern for me either. Every three months I let the shop refresh the sealant. It's not as bad as people say, and worth not dealing with flats on the side of the road.

[@bernhardbley5533]

95% of my riding is on streets and asphalt and I like tubeless because most of the punctures are from the tiny metal wires from busted car tires; tubeless fixes that real easy, like it never happened.

[@blackjackpinoko]

That

[@Silidons91]

I went back to tubes after trying tubeless. All it took was one day where I got a puncture so bad it wouldn't seal (road bike). Sealant everywhere, handy sticky from having to stick a tube in. I got way more minor punctures with tubeless too (the tires aren't as durable as clinchers). It's also super annoying if you have multiple bikes - having to maintain the sealant.

[@Forest_velo]

Nothing like trying to stick a tube in a tyre which still has a load of sealant in it 😅

[@DaveCM]

That doesn't typically happen that often. But, with multiple bikes or wheels, tubless is a pain. I now have two road bikes and so went to tubes in both of them. A few years ago, I went to the mountains with my deep carbon wheels rather than the climbing wheels because the sealant had dried in my climbing wheels and I didn't realize it until the evening before.

[@Silidons91]

@@DaveCM Getting flats in clinchers doesn't happen that often either, tubeless is supposed to make it less frustrating but in reality it does the opposite. I also tried those vittoria air liners and ended up with a cracked carbon rim from trying to remove the tire, even using the tool I purchased to remove the tire from vittoria.

[@aarongraubart1162]

Absolutely agree with you. I had very similar experiences with tubeless on my road bike - nothing but hassle. I'm back with tubes and am perfectly happy.

[@sjjw43]

I've run tubeless on my road bike for 4 years & had no issues beyond needing to plug two punctures where I've had a slice from flint. There have been other punctures that have sealed quickly. I believe the wheel/tyre combo makes a difference. I have used GP5000 (old & newer version) on Mavic wheels & never needed my air reservoir. I've used Stans Race Sealant & recently Silca. There is no doubt finding the right combination makes a difference. In terms of miles ridden I'm currently on 3598 miles this calendar year so not massive maybe greater use would cause me more issues that could make me re evaluate my choice? Thank you for a great video again!

[@Forest_velo]

Thanks! I might give it another go with Silca!

[@sjjw43]

@Forest_velo Silca makes a big about carbon fibre strands in the sealant, but the thing I noticed is that it really is "latexy" & drys quickly, very quickly.

[@cheeheifoo9282]

Thanks so much for this. Highlighting the higher pressures as the difference between tubeless off and on road!

[@Forest_velo]

Glad it was helpful!

[@stepheneaston8354]

I had a bout of punctures last year so went tubeless. All in all, I like the system. Once had a nail in the tyre but the bike still got home without attention although it kept tapping on the road. 😊I agree that there is quite a bit of faffing though, as well as the reality of endemic leaks. So I check pressure before nearly every ride and always carry tubes anyway. For me, I think the faff is just about justified. This time of year repairing a roadside puncture is not such an issue but when I was cycling in zero degrees in the winter even saving myself one roadside repair feels worth it. The repair kits can be tricky too. I have had two punctures that needed plugging and Dynaplug works well for me. The other systems with the needle and sausage are more hassle than just putting in an inner tube. I also learned to carry a press on hand pump: the screw ones seem (at least for me) to take off the removable Presta valve core which is not good if you do have to inflate at the road side. However, am taking one of my road bikes overseas this week and have converted back to tubes. The hassle of deflating the tyres on the plane and then worrying about sealant leaks and the tyres unseating in the bike box is just a bridge too far! So there are clearly trade offs. Am traveling with a few tubes instead…..with nice flexible tyres not the much less malleable tubeless ones. Would never use hookless.

[@Forest_velo]

Me neither! Yes I had trouble plugging.. the last time it took so much effort the tyre was completely flat then came off the rim and wouldn’t re seat!

[@StayInTheWord]

Thanks for confirming what I concluded months ago. Beautiful yard.

[@Forest_velo]

Thanks!

[@colinlam3793]

Problem I have with inner tubes on tubeless rims is the tyres are sooooo tight to put on that I have ended up pinching the inner tube and causing a hole. Patch this up. Then send another 10mins or more trying to put the tyre back on the rim and messing up my fingers. I don't think tubeless for the road is 100% the best or fail proof, but time repairing is still quicker. Plugs have works for me so far. Until you get a hole that the plug won't stick in tight and the air pressure slowly pushes the plug out.

[@dereknolantan]

Thanks for sharing your experience with tubeless, I’m still running inner tubes. I’ve heard similar experiences with tubeless when it punches, also heard from a friend that he couldn’t put a tube in because the valve was stuck and didn’t have any tools to remove it so he had to call family to pick him up. I think I’ll stick to tubes as I’m old school 😊

[@Forest_velo]

Yes, there does seem to be more problems with tubeless when it goes wrong!

[@MrAnon-2024]

Been down the road with tubeless but gone back to TPU tubes. Tubeless is just too much faff, too much mess and a right carry on.

[@soap5393]

I got really tired of my tires eternally going flat. Went back to tubes and still am on tubes.

[@stephenpatterson2653]

I am glad you made this video, I, like you, have a gravel bike that I run with a tubeless set up. I recently acquired some tubeless tyres for my road bikes and was wondering whether to set them as tubeless or tubes. You have answered my question, tubes it is. Great Channel BTW.

[@Forest_velo]

Glad it was helpful!

[@bikesandstufff]

Good for you! I'm still running my all 3 bikes tubeless - road, gravel ans mtb. I could live with tubes on a smooth road, but off road tubeless is great.

[@SierraTherapy]

I am very mixed on this; tubeless when it fails; it fails hard. Tubes puncture and it’s a road side repair that’s relatively quick. When tubeless fails; you’re going to deal with a big mess and get a tube in there. I puncture frequently so I’m changing to a tube anyway; when the tire gets larger gashes; it’s always tire boot and tube. Economically I think tubes are less expensive, even the tpu’s ) which I use; to get the tire sealed correctly with sealant; you have to cure the tire over a few weeks of adding sealant. Tires that are tlr; are not so protective out of box; it’s up to us to finish the process.

[@Forest_velo]

I may have just been unlucky but I seem to have had major failures. I might have more luck next time!

[@s1ngularityxd64]

messing with sealant is the last we want to do. TPU tubes are easy to store and quite resistant

[@philchevrier]

I've been riding tubeless for 5 seasons. This year's the first one that I really enjoy it and avoided many instances of having to stop by the roadside to either replace a tube (if I would've been using clinchers) or fixing at non-sealing tubeless. The roads around here are quite dirty and littered with lots of debris, which means lots of flats all summer. The reason for my success this year: Silca's sealant (I have no interest/relation to the cie). Their sealant has nothing to do with anything else on the market in terms of efficacy. I was considering going back to clinchers... not anymore.

[@Forest_velo]

I might try Silca

[@philchevrier]

@@Forest_velo I have zero links to them but their sealant is worth it IME.

[@richardhale9664]

I tried tubeless for a couple years as I could not get my favourite rims (32 hole Open Pro) any more. It was a painful experience for zero performance upgrades in either speed or comfort. Also expensive. Problems:- 1. You need some form of quick inflation mechanism - costs extra money 2. You need a plug kit - again extra money 3. You need sealant which needs replacing every three months or so - messy and expensive 4. Initially only one tyre would seat on the rims, I had to take the other wheel to the bike shop to see what was wrong - they fixed the problem with extra rim tape - extra expense and hassle 5. 25mm tyres were really uncomfortable (whereas they were really comfortable on my old Open Pros, even 23mm were OK). Had to change up to 28mm for anything like a pleasurable riding experience. But guess what? I could not get them to seat (again!) another trip to the bike shop and yet more expense and delay. 6. Granted in two years I never had a puncture, but when the valve on the front wheel decided to fail 10 miles away from home, I had had enough of the wretched things. I am back on tyres and inner tubes now and put the whole sorry episode down to experience. The whole tubeless thing is hype and the consumer is being sandbagged by the bike industry into getting stuff which they don't need. In 25 years of keen cycling I have never really had a problem with punctures which was not my fault - not replacing tyres soon enough usually - and in any event when I have had punctures it has been a pretty easy job to stick a new inner tube in in a few minutes at no expense other than getting my hands a bit dirty. Sure it's not fun if it's cold and wet on the side of the road but that's why nowadays I make sure my tyres are sound and replace them more frequently than I used to - usually at the start of autumn.

[@Forest_velo]

Thanks for your comments! 👍

[@Foxtrottangoabc]

On a slight side note , i just completed the Great British Escapades on a 27.5 mtb. Was going to go tubeless for it for it , as ive only ever used butyl tubes . Bought all tge bits including air pump in the end not enough time to familuarise with tubeless so i decided to leave in some TPU tubes i was trialing . I had a Tubiluto on the front and a cheap RideNow(£6.70) tpu on the back , both about 32psi with new tubeless rim tape fitted which i think is very important to avoid pinch flats. I had no punctures for the whole event . So i am now a complete TPU convert 🤠. Though have not tried the repair patches yet . Will try tubeless this summer on my mtb but for what i do very happy with TPU 🙂

[@Forest_velo]

Nice to know👍. I’ve just bought some you tubes as backup!

[@njm3211]

I've been an early adopter of tubeless. I'm an older rider myself. Never had any problems that couldn't be sorted out. I'm mystified at the problems some cyclists encounter and can't overcome by using wider tires (30 or even 32mm), lower pressures, better quality latex & tubless tires etc. I suspect it's mostly older riders clinging to their rim brakes, 23mm tires and inner tubes at 110psi and what has been familiar to them for many a decade. It's been proven BTW that wider tires at lower pressures offer enormous performance gains with perhaps climbing really steep gradients the exception. That could be a concern if you are a professional rider. Don't imagine too many of those types are following this channel. 😉

[@Forest_velo]

No probably not! 😃. Yes I’ve used 28mm tyres from various brands. I might go back to it at some point but enjoying the ease of tubes at the moment! 😁

[@br5380]

+1 went tubeless on MTB nearly 20 years ago. My road bike is tubeless running 30mm tyres @ 55/60 psi.

[@ralphc1405]

The wider tires advantage works BEST on those wide ultra-expensive carbon rims (a dentist's wet dream btw) On my steel Colnago Master if I want to ride fast I'll stick to my handbuilt MAVIC Open SUP CD rims and 23mm Vredestein clinchers pumped at 120psi. My club rides are shocked when I can hang off the back in the paceline on my Italian Campy relic--I fool them when I say I'm about to throw my Colnago away and upgrade to a Chinese bike that's mass produced LOL...

[@br5380]

@@ralphc1405 and imagine how fast you'd be on modern machinery... Watch at the recent GCN video with David Millar on an up-to-date TT bike.

[@ralphc1405]

@@br5380 I've thought about that, Doesn't matter when your 50yo like me and can still draft on a 53x12 or 13 28lb. Colnago steel bike life is good:). Just trying to chase Father Time away from me. I've been an athlete all my life. Running background too.

[@vbinelli]

Other thing to consider if she blows at 30 mph your potential for taking a dirt nap is way higher as your gonna lose air quickly.

[@yeyeTF2]

i tried road tubeless for 2 months in 2023. it was the worst 2 months of cycling in my life. back to clincher/tubes and my life is so simple. i never related so much to a video about tires before

[@jbratt]

I have a brand new set of tubeless tires still in the box. I run tubeless on gravel and know the problems. I'll give them a try on the road but I won't hesitate to go back to tubes. I just hate to waste a new set of tires. The only reason why I would consider using them on the road is that I have discovered Silca sealant. Silca sealant is a game changer but messy.

[@Forest_velo]

I might try it!

[@janwillemkuilenburg7561]

Never went tubeless, latex innertubes instead, works like a dream, never had any problem.

[@Forest_velo]

I’ve just put in some latex tubes 👍

[@GaborBesenyoiSzabo]

Me too.

[@BufordDuckworth]

I haven't had a flat in years. I worry about these cyclists that act like they get a flat every time they ride.

[@Chris._P._Bacon]

I just bought a pair of TOKEN tubeless ready, but after finding out what a pain tubeless setup is? No thank you, I'll stick with tubes, and I got the wheelset today, slapped a pair of 5000 and race light tubes. But you know what else? Disc and electronic shifting is also a thing I'll stay away from......for sure.

[@clp91009]

What I like about tubeless is the feeling of comfort which translates to more confidence particularly on roads that are not very smooth. It’s a kind of indeterminable quality that I definitely perceive but I haven’t heard many others talk about.

[@drewhart843]

This has been my experience too. Great when working well but that didn't seem to last long - particularly on Greater Manchester's terrible road surfaces.

[@tettazwo9865]

Thank you for confirming my take on tubeless being a gimmick. I like my single-speed bike simple.

[@enigma1000]

I am trying tubeless as I hoped they would provide a more supple ride at their lower pressure. Started with Giant Fondo 32mm tyres. I thought they felt wooden and heavy so I swapped to Pirelli Cinturato 28mm. They are better but no real advantage over tubes and no better ride feel. If I was starting now, I’d just use tubes. The maintenance overhead of tubeless isn’t worth it in my opinion. And the horror stories if it goes wrong while out on a ride are a big negative.

[@jagsingh1979]

What sealant are you using? Only Silca is the sealant worth using. You just pop in a replenisher solution every three months and then refresh the sealant annually. Also dynaplugs for any puntures is the only solution. As for the side wall punture; you will have the same issue with tubes.

[@Forest_velo]

Hi I’ve used a variety, stans, mucoff etc. just bought some Silca to try!

[@ryancraig2795]

Automotive and many motorcycle tires are tubeless, but messy sealants are not routinely required in those applications. Punctures aren't too much of an issue and if they happen, then you use a plug. Bicycle tubeless seems a bit underdeveloped, to me.

[@Forest_velo]

Agree! 😃

[@simonwarmer8777]

I’ve tried it because my wheels are very good but hookless only, unfortunately. After some leaks not being fixed by sealant, I’ve put in my old trusted vittoria latex inner tubes again. Rides like a charm. My only worry is can I get the tyre seated, when I’ve got a leak,at the side of the road with a handpump .

[@Forest_velo]

I haven’t had that problem, yet! 😅

[@kidsafe]

In urban/suburban California, there is too much man-made waste or detritus on the road not to run tubeless. I went from having to toss regular clinchers between 1500-2000mi to GP5K S TR rear tires lasting 4800mi. For most rides I just carry a mini-pump and a DynaPlug Racer Pro. The DynaPlug fits in my canvas bike wallet.

[@Forest_velo]

What size tyres are you running?

[@kidsafe]

@@Forest_velo These days I’m racing on tires that measure about 31-32mm on the rim.

[@BrianRPaterson]

Spot on. Tubeless is great on MTBs, but I'm not keen on the road. I tried a halfway house - TPU tubes - and saved about 150g per wheel. But I got more flats in two months than I've had in 2 years, so I've gone back to butyl.

[@Forest_velo]

I’ll have to see how my tpu tubes go. On latex at the moment

[@wesleyvandeurzen7199]

Tpu tubes flat easily if you don't clean your wheel before putting them in. Sand rubs on the tube and because they are so thin it wears through. You also can't run tubeless tyres with tpu tubes because the tubeless tyre has bad puncture protection because they assume that the sealant will fix punctures.

[@rhenceocampo3253]

Same. It’s overrated. Tried it for a year, gave it a chance for an extra year, then went back to latex. What worked for me is buying tubeless tires and pairing it with latex. Tubeless tires have more puncture resistance than the regular clinchers.

[@noels8817]

On tubeless now for 10 years - I use the Continental GP 5000 28mm tubeless, Orange sealant, Stans plug - bike is the Spesh Roubaix.

[@cornelhughes]

In terms of making, it easier to mount, I would suggest you try using soapy water, around the tire bead. Worst case: mount the one side using a tube. Use tires that are reviewed as being easy to setup tubeless. In terms of when the sealant finds the hole too big to seal, Dynaplug Racer Pro Bicycle Tire Repair Tool is the best since it makes insertion of the dart easier. Silca sealant works well with high pressures but it then forces you to try to use what's labelled hi flow valves so the valves don't get clogged. I am about to try Orange Seal regular, since I am hearing it's easier to use than Silca and yet is effective. However, if it fails me then I am back to Silca. Why I am sticking to tubeless? I find tubes more of a hassle because sometimes it's hard to find what caused the tube to get flat and I tend to ride on roads which tend to cause flats.

[@Forest_velo]

Thanks for your tips!

[@MorganBrown]

I hate tubeless as well, but they do roll faster, 3-5 watts per wheel, so I do it. I do race. For years I ran sealant inside my tubes and that worked very well

[@kennethdarlington]

Tubeless are great for races. Especially gravel/mtb ones. For casual/training - tubes all the way.

[@rickclark3744]

I had a side wall puncture about a half inch wide one inch long and was able to make it home which was four miles away thanks to having tubes.

[@StevieH1055]

Have been running tubeless for two years. "Continental Grand Prix 5000s:. Had one puncture which sealed within seconds. Absolutely no issues at all.

[@rule3036]

Tubeless is great on my mtb ( xc) bike. Nil problems, but for road with narrow 32 c tyres with good puncture protection it seems pointless to me, easier to change the tube or just a quick patch on the tube. No mess. Tubeless has its place but not always appropriate. Doing off road sportives all the tyre wheel problems I have observed have been on gravel bikes with tubeless not mtb🤷

[@bengt_axle]

I think TPU tubes, which weigh practically nothing and are very compact to carry, will replace tubeless -- even for gravel. Most people simply do not get enough pinch flats to justify adding some sealant, tape and hoping it does not leak. TPU can be made quite cheaply (even though the first tubes were sold at premium), last longer than sealant and can be installed in the bike factory. They can even be repaired. Personally, I use latex, but mostly because it is elastic, lightweight and locally available.

[@Forest_velo]

I’ve just put in some latex tubes and have TPU as backups! 👍

[@wearejames1]

Still running tubes and continental GP5000's or Gatorskins because my wheels aren't tubeless compatible. When I hear more and more stories like your experience, I don't think will waste money on another set of wheels, sealant, inflator pump and tubeless tyres any time soon..... Happy to carry tubes and know that unless I get a major tyre rip, I can be back on the road in about 5 minutes. Much like you have said if you get a large hole or tyre rip with tubeless you will have to fit a tube anyway🙄 I don't currently ride gravel, but may consider tubeless if I did👍

[@steveindorset]

Having just bought myself a lovely new bike (Ultegra Di2😍) I’ve hum’d & R’d about tubeless. It was absolutely bulletproof on my mountain bike. But for road I’ve decided to stick with tubes. Though I am going to use TPU tubes. Nice garden mate. 😎👍🏻 Which forrest are you in??

[@Forest_velo]

Hi, me too… it’s the New Forest!

[@KevinKimmich44024]

I had the same experiences you did. Its not worth it at all. I had a snakebite puncture. Two small holes with sealant splooging out everywhere. I was not able to repair the tires on the roadside. That was it for me. Not worth it at all. I didnt experience any magical upside with those tires either.

[@miker4926]

My mountain bike, hybrid and road bike all on tubes. Tubeless overrated and more hassle in my opinion especially higher PSI tyres. I rarely get punctures with tubes anyway. Tubeless does require a clean out and sealant refresh from time to time which is a faff.

[@sepg5084]

4 years of cycling, zero punctures, no need for tubeless. If i'd ever worry about rolling resistance of butyl inner tubes, then i'd get some TPU inner tubes.

[@Scott-ph2yk]

Still running tubulars. I like the way they corner. Rarely get flats. Gluing is not fun, but I have accepted the challenge. I make it work.

[@Forest_velo]

Are they still readily available?

[@Scott-ph2yk]

@@Forest_velo Yes, I can get them from bike shops that cater to racing.

[@JPBVideo]

Similar experience here. I'd rather deal with punctures by simply switching out tubes and getting on my way rather than deal with the magical mystery tour that is trying to find the actual puncture in the nooks and crannies of the tire, dealing with gooey sealant and then praying that your tire will reseat when you inevitably have to pump it back up with a hand pump. The deep dark secret of tubeless is you have to carry tubes anyway "just in case". So, why bother with all the bacon strips and core removal crap when you are already carrying the regular tube fix stuff? I went on one tour with tubeless. Never again.

[@laurensedenburg8144]

Why put up with the mess of sealant which weighs about 40-50gm when you can use a TPU tube which weighs only 26gm ?? I was using butyl tubes each weighing 110gms and then swapped over to TPU tubes and saved nearly 300gms of total weight [1 tube in each tyre and 2 spare tubes in saddle bag = 4 tubes].

[@herminio001]

Totally agree with you. Tubeless works great on my gravel and mountain bikes with bigger volumes and lower pressures. For Road Bike, I'll stick to inner tubes and recently started using TPU tubes. They are more expensive, but I love how light compact they are, and I store 2 of them in my small bike bag instead of just one. Maybe in the future, I will go tubeless on my road bike once the technology gets better. I'm not sure if it’s the tire or the sealant, which could be both that needs to be improved

[@Forest_velo]

Thanks for your comment… I have just put TPU tubes in my saddle bag 😃

[@johndef5075]

Im loving tubeless offroad. Will stick with tubes on road. TPU hasnt worked for me either on road or mtb. The patches supplied with the tubes dont work. Hold air at home and then lose air riding as the patch works itself loose.

[@BufordDuckworth]

Every tubeless video I've ever seen says "But always carry a tube just in case." That tells me that tubeless is the same as tubes but with extra steps first.

[@br5380]

65-70psi for a 30mm tyre? Seems high, what does the Silca Tyre Pressure Calculator recommend for your weight? Also look at the Dynaplug tool and plugs, far better option than 'bacon strips'.

[@Forest_velo]

Hi The Silca calculator gave me that pressure so I think that was pretty good. The dyna plug could be worth looking into, a friend recommended those too.

[@br5380]

@@Forest_velo I'm 80kg dressed inc bottles/bag etc, run 55F 60R on 30mm tubeless tyres. Tried a few rolls down a local hill and coasts the same as higher pressures. Tried lower but I can feel it 'giving' too much on the rear.

[@oktayuruncu1127]

same experience 😵‍💫 now back to inner(tpu) tubes.

[@phil_d]

It wasn't until I got my brand new secondhand Cannondale Slate that we've been doing 'tubeless' all wrong. You shouldn't need sealant. That seems like a daft statement, but look a car tyres ... they don't run sealant! Mavic, I believe, go it spot on with their UST wheels however the concept seems not to have gained any traction. My Slate came with 650B Mavic rims that don't seem tubeless compatible, in other words the rim depth to tyre ratio is quite large so you can't get a tubeless tyre to seat. Now. here's the genius! They use a rubber rim strip that is shaped to the profile of the rim/hooks which then makes tubeless an absolute breeze! You now have a rubber tyre sitting and sealing onto a rubber strip and it just pops on and seals! Best of all, it hold pressure without sealant; the bike is currently being worked on and the tyres are still inflated over 4 weeks later! What happens if you get a puncture, I hear you ask? Well, you could add a little bit of sealant when you install the tyre - my favourite is another little-known brand, milKit as it doesn't dry out and has small fibres within the fairly thick liquid so it doesn't get ejected like a wet fart - or deal with the hole at hand. That would be stuff in a tube (with little/no sealant mess) and patch the tyre from the inside later, patch it there and then (same as pulling the bead to stuff in a tube) OR use a glue like Loctite 480 that you apply when the tyre is flat and inject it into the hole with a small syringe and blunt needle. The only issue is the availability of rubber rim strips. However, seeing as Mavic UST Rim Strips now seem to be quite hard to get hold of in the UK, Bontrager do a huge range of strips for 26", 650B and 700c rims, with widths from 19mm internal. When I get back from bike packing next week, I will investigate! I think you should pin this comment 🤣

[@Forest_velo]

Thanks for your comprehensive comment! 👍

[@ChrisAcheson]

On your road bike, was it a case of sidewall sabotage on that club ride? Send the tube back to Goodyear as a defect, they'll replace it free. Also, do not overinflate road tires and inflate to the exact recommended max pressure. Good luck.

[@Forest_velo]

Hi Yes it was in the side wall button late to send back!

[@NeoPayneHK]

tubeless tyre to me hutchinson fusion 5 performance 11storm tlr gave me no issue at all there are too many factor to affect whole system setup... tyre rim rim tape how to install at the end, there is no wrong to stay with tube~~~

[@manapeace]

Tubeless makes sense to me for racing and group rides where you hope for a fast repair of a puncture with sealant or a plug. For any tire damage greater than a small puncture I don’t see the benefits of tubeless.

[@___Bebo___]

Go near 70 PSI and it blows off the rim spraying goop everywhere? Count me in I need that in my life, haha. Road tubeless on all my bikes I love spraying goop.

[@peterbedford2610]

I think needing an air source that can quickly put air in the tire is a little problematic. And it you get a bigger hole, are you carrying a spare tire? A spare tube is the way to go.

[@br5380]

You'd carry a spare tyre and surely a tyre-boot too whether tubed or tubeless - wouldn't you?

[@changrenyong7616]

Sounds your issue with road tubeless has more to do with sealant not sealing some of your punctures. What sealant are you using?

[@Forest_velo]

I’ve tried a few. Stans and muc-off. Might try some silca soon!

[@fabric5000]

Silca is the way to go. I’ve been only using tubeless for a year. I race and just had it save my bacon in a no free lap circuit race. And not have to take a free lap 3 other times - it can still be a pain to jump back in. And I’ve probably had 3-4 other times I didn’t even notice. Only knew after I took the tire off and saw where the Silca sealant built up a little carbon shreds mountain. I’ve been using 28 and 30 mm tires at similar pressure 60-75 psi. I did have a few struggles at the beginning and thought maybe it’s not worth it. But I wouldn’t go back now. I’ll take the extra work off the bike to avoid getting dropped from a ride or race. The 10-20 watts total saving is a nice bonus. Sort of like the Silca wax system. It’s just a way better, easier and cleaner system, and the extra watts are just a nice bonus!

[@jonathangreen7111]

Completely agree with you. Lots of hedge cutting in the lanes & on the trails near me, but still not worth it on the road bike. Essential on gravel bike though...ie the chances of punctures makes all the hassle worth it...just😢

[@gavinhazard75]

Totally agree,I don't think they are safe, I stick with what I know, high pressure with a lip

[@andip.3003]

I ride my BMC with Specialized Turbo Cotton with Tubes and i am very happy. Tubeless on my Gravel Bike is ok. Ride on

[@Davidesrajohn]

I'm just paranoid about the sealant leaking all over my floor.

[@Forest_velo]

😂

[@mikaelardnert1253]

You’re right, about everything. But, this weekend I ran a 315k event on tubeless. It was lovely, smooth plush and fast, and I kept two tpu tubes, one for each wheel, in case it would all fall apart. Which it didn’t, good thing as I’ve punctured so many tpu tubes and they’re expensive, latex doesn’t last well and leaks a lot and butyl is supposed to make you slower, can’t have that surely. I would do butyl if it is a lot of climbing but otherwise I don’t like the alternatives, still struggling through the crushing disappointments of tubeless 😂😫😩

[@Forest_velo]

😅. I’m sure I’ll give it a go again but for the moment I’m on latex with TPU spares!

[@paulwilliams4990]

Never used tubeless and the faff for the road just isn’t worth it. If I was still mountain biking or gravel riding I would try it.

[@davidgeorge9233]

I think road tubeless is worth it for the ride feel alone, I’m not sure on your weight but at 80kg I run 60/68psi on a 28mm Corsa Next tyre. Issues I’ve had mainly surround tyres that won’t hold air and need to be exchanged, and if a tyre is unseated then it will always be a bastard to re seat again. I use stans no tubes sealant and never need to top up, so far haven’t had a single puncture on TLR tyres so maybe I’m lucky, but overall I’m still only on 3 punctures in 36,000 miles, most of these on Vittoria Corsa tyres. Road tubeless can work well, yes it’s more hassle at times but the ride is much improved, rolling resistance is also lower too.

[@Forest_velo]

Thanks for the info… yes I might give it a go again with corsas. I might just be unlucky!

[@hbomb65]

have ridden tubeless for over 3 years, all on Continental 5000's or Schwalbe Pro One's and have had no issues. Winter riding or punctures seal quickly and carry darts that fill and cover any cuts I have had. Sorry your experience has been negative.

[@Forest_velo]

Thanks… I’m sure I’ll give it another go sometime!

[@hbomb65]

@@Forest_velo as long as you are comfortable and confident, that's what matters, just wanted to convey that I have had really good rolls on my road rides and all types of road types. Cheers mate!

[@essex9]

Been running tubeless for over a year now, never had an issue ( touch wood )

[@davidmartin305]

I changed from tubeless hater to convert when I started using 30mm tyres in 25mm internal rim wheels and ran at 50psi (SRAM and Silca recommend) On the bumpy roads of Hampshire bike feels so much better. Also have more experience using the best plug for the hole. Tubeless has saved me on summer chaingang when the sealant fixes a small flint or thorne hole.

[@Forest_velo]

I have thought of going wider. Some nice new wider wheels would help of course 😃

[@trailingupwards]

That tubeless sealant has a number of toxic chemicals you dont want on you, including several different PFAS conpounds.

[@MisterE331]

Too much maintenance with going tubeless not every puncture seals, sealant spews everywhere and once that tire gets a puncture on the sidewall throw it away... Just get latex tubes with some patches

[@paulflory3532]

Anybody else remember when bar end shifters were The Great New Thing the bike industry was pushing? Just move your hand to an odd position when you want to shift gears. Planted the seed of my skepticism towards whatever they're pushing on us.

[@sventice]

I actually like bar end shifters for friction shifting; they're a lot more accessible than downtube shifters. (Not great for road bikes though, with their shorter wheelbase.)

[@paulflory3532]

@@sventice What spelled the end for both was that they were unsuitable for larger numbers of cogs in the rear cassette. Used both and found the downtube location perfectly natural, just drop my hand straight down. At one point I was using an old Peugeot with click levers on the downtube in Guatemala and a bike with STI's here in the US. Sometimes when I was on the STI bike I would forget and reach for the downtube location. Muscle memory. Don't know what wheelbase has to do with it.

[@mariosimas]

clinchers with tpu is a winner combination.

[@Forest_velo]

I’ve got some TPU haven’t tried them yet!

[@mariosimas]

ive been using the ridenow tpu, the pink one's 🙂

[@paulbrown4235]

I’m still gluing on tubs! 😊

[@Forest_velo]

😁

[@peterbedford2610]

Old skool

[@ralphc1405]

are you pre-stretching them on ye olde MAVIC SSC rims too??? LOL

[@AndyRides]

I'm with you. Tubeless just seems too much bother.

[@ChristianBorrman]

I can send you some samples of our @2bls finally launching after 20 years in making. been using road tubeless for over a decade and now don’t even carry repair kit. The problem is weight weenie tyres shedding the butyl liner which is just silly. but let’s turn this around: if a tyre is so flimsy that the sidewall fails and will not seal with sealant- what are you doing riding along at upto 50-70kmh on a tyre that flimsy??? plugs are a waste of time on road tyres, at most on big downhill mtb tyre. need sturdier tyres, wider rims and a sealant that is not just another company jumping on bandwaggon adding glitter to a liquid!

[@Forest_velo]

Sounds interesting I’d be happy for more info. Trying to get a plug in a 28 mm tyre isn’t easy!

[@Forest_velo]

@ChristianBorrman Just looked at your website, looks interesting! 👍

[@mateagoston8145]

We might just need to do some deeper research about what exact product is the best we have access to. Let it be tyre, sealant or whatever else because don't forget that just because many of us absolutley love cycling that doesn't mean that there aren't bike brands that are trying to fool us and sell us shit for a pile of money that worth nothing. This way it can be easy to judge certain technologies and solutions as shit after we have been sold the shit ingredients. Also consider what local bike shops and services are the best around your local area, not all of them are great at all. I was fooled by some of my local shops after seeing the most expensive, fancy bikes and equipment in their showrooms thinking that those must be excellent in all things. But after spending quite lot of money there I realised that just because they sell the most expensive bikes doesn't mean that they can fix bikes well and would try to sell you the product you need.

[@lathamhardee]

You just need sealant that’s worth a shit. Silca. I run both road and gravel, and over the last year and change I’ve only experienced 1 puncture. This is a mix of fast group rides on shitty urban roads and old country roads, as well as fast chunderous gravel and mix of single track with root incursion. The only flat I got sealed right up and I spent 45 seconds topping up with a hand pump.

[@peeweepierce5798]

Long time mtb running tubeless works great 2 years into road Aluminium wheels came with bike looking to upgrade Can of worms opened Most people advise against hookless and also lots of negative about tubeless Sticking with tubes for now but hoping to upgrade to carbon wheels soon Decisions

[@Silidons91]

It depends...if you want a nice ride, don't get carbon spoked wheels. I have FarSports gravel wheelset (on my road bike though, 25mm internal width) and they're carbon and only 30mm depth, but steel spokes. If you want an insanely stiff and bumpy ride, get carbon spokes....more compliance with steel spokes. Also, I have a pair of Fulcrum Racing Zero alloy rim brake wheels for my rim brake bike. Honestly you can't feel a difference between them and the FarSports. I live in SoCal in a very windy area so I always run shallow depth wheels, and like how shallow wheels get up to speed quickly. Much more nimble feeling versus even 50mm that I've tried.