Why I NEVER Tap Hard Materials | CNC Machining | Vlog #98

[@Joe-bm4wx]

Number 1 tip I've learned about watching titan's videos is to always set the playback speed to 1.5!!!! Makes him talk at a normal speed.

[@user-tc2ky6fg2o]

Tip of the day!

[@jdman561]

Yes. This is a great suggestion

[@TWISTEDSTRINGS69]

1.25 so much better. 1.5 is a little fast

[@rmkscrambler]

Perfect

[@methujeraya]

For someone like me who's never done this and have 0 idea, him talking slow allows me to visualize what it is he's trying to convey hahaha

[@slidey1000]

I went through almost exactly the same scenario as your camera housing problem while making parts for the f50 sailgp boats. Broken taps were a showstopper. Cut taps would last only 3 holes before breaking. Once I talked the bosses into thread milling, I was able to run 120 m3 holes into Ti with zero failures. If you have a spare week, ferric chloride will dissolve an HSS tap out of Ti. Guess how I figured that one out.

[@Tunkkis]

Another way to dissolve traps out of non-ferrous workpieces is alum, the same stuff you can use to stop bleeding from shaving cuts. Versatile stuff!

[@jasontompson3507]

You didnt mention indexible threadmills or single point thread mills. I prefer them over solid carbide threadmills when I need a deeper thread. The solid ones are generally one inch or less which are limited. However, I programmed hydraulic manifolds with 12 pitch threads ranging in various diameters and one size 12 pitch threadmill to cut them all eliminating several large taps and tool changes. Keep up the Awesome videos and teaching the world about CNC.

[@dylanmaatman503]

Titan I’m a 18 year old kid from a small town and these videos are amazing they teach me so much and I’m probably never gonna use most of the hard metals they are cool it makes me proud to be American keep it up man helps me learn after coming home from my job thank you for making it free for my broke ass BOOM!

[@miguelcastaneda7236]

Dylan Maatman experiance will tell you more materials tooling ..beyond theoratical..text book or sales reps recomandations

[@dinotom1]

Brilliant display of education through experience

[@TheAefril]

It's not just ordinary education, Titan teaches with passion, emotion, no fluff around the edges gets to the point quickly and delivers a lasting message! Love the videos, keep them coming!

[@agomez5278]

After every successful roll, cut and thread mill program execution. """""Boom""""" in my Titan voice! Great job Titan of CNC

[@jirizhanel795]

I always say. You'll become specialist in removing broken tap out of your part, before you learn how to tap a hole.

[@ThumbDr]

Jiri Zhanel LOL

[@VenturiLife]

This is really where the experience and knowledge comes to the fore.

[@brahtrumpwonbigly7309]

Titan, I love the crosses and picture of your family on your desk. Perfect placement for the video lol!

[@timhoppmann3938]

Personally i love the Threadmills that don't even need a pre-existing hole. Vargus has some nice ones for materials up to 50HRC. OSG has some tools from 50HRC up to 66HRC

[@Sean20Gaming]

I love thread mills! We use Vargus thread mills and they are cost effective, fast and consistent.

[@Sean20Gaming]

@@soundspark Plus internal and external threads to boot!

[@renaissanceman5847]

Just loves the way he says... "PEEERFECT"... I got a challenge. Do all that with a Sherline CNC Mill..

[@SinsBird]

PURFICHT

[@rocketsurgeon4876]

Great info, thank you Titan for taking the time to teach us here on KZbin! Here's something I would like to pose to him and the folks here. Imagine you have a crazy expensive piece you are making with molybdenum, you can't use cutting fluid or lubricant of any kind because the part will be going into a super high vacuum device, and you're tapping numerous 4-40 and 2-56 blind and through holes. Obviously roll taps are a non starter, and moly will crack if you climb cut (it does NOT like to be in tension!). Best practice far as could be determined was use brand new cut taps a maximum of 3 times and then discard for a new one. I would really like to hear Titan's thoughts on this!

[@Rowerem-Po-UK]

Hi Titan, Good job showing all aspects of programing + speeds and feed etc. But what I am missing and would love to see is mechanical side of machine shop - leveling cnc mill, running air supply, etc - that would be EPIC ;)

[@AbbeyRoad69147]

"NYC CNC" channel has all that stuff

[@Rowerem-Po-UK]

@@AbbeyRoad69147 not in details

[@willl84]

I make a lot of small Hastelloy parts on a Bridgeport with a ProtoTrak. I can't thread mill on that machine so tapping it is!

[@TITANSofCNC]

OMG, your going to Love Friday’s Vlog... Has to do with everything you just said.

[@willl84]

@@TITANSofCNC any chance you could do something on drilling Hastelloy with small drills? I'm drilling breaker plates for 3/4" extrusion screws and one plate has a ton of small holes - like 1/8" and smaller. I've also been having a tough time making small dies with micro holes. I've tried carbide but so far I've had the best lock with cobalt drills but I can't get more than a hole or two before they're toast

[@harryho9097]

just want to share my experience on tapping. it is definitely not a good idea to use cut tap on those super alloy. in our shop, we use form tap for inconel, from M3, 4-40 to M10, 3/8-16,and it works perfect. we have been doing this for many year, so far, none of them broke.

[@kw2519]

Meh lol I rock the cut taps in everything 😂 I just stop the cut at a certain point. I may also, maybe, might have a DMU50 with tap chip break and soft reverse feature.😊

[@bryantburns3664]

​@@kw2519 Ur behind the times

[@kw2519]

@@bryantburns3664 No I’m not, I use form taps in jobs that are worth it. I thread mill when it’s the best option. I don’t have to cut many threads and the ones I do aren’t precise enough to always warrant a form tap. Sometimes a form tap is not wanted because of the way it changes the pressure in the metal. You sound like an asshole, fyi.

[@platin2148]

This is why i have a EDM at my hands. Problems with thread milling it’s slow the part needs to be quite expensive 😔

[@carbonfibercreationswashin7213]

I was in the machining industry for 14 years. I just watch to learn and if the job opportunity comes up for CNC I will know more about this trade. Thanks Titan

[@luisgamez9941]

Great video as always. Really, really helpful tips you give out and you do it to benefit the average guy who wants to become a great machinist. A million thank yous.

[@71brp84]

Good video. Easiest way to explain the difference between cut and form taps, for those that don't know: Cut taps remove stock material, form taps deform the stock without actually removing any material. Also, form taps don't work on elastic materials ie. most plastics.

[@benwinter2420]

Interesting , work hardening at the same time .

[@benjaminzern2404]

@@benwinter2420 absolutely. The result is a more robust thread that has more strength than a milled or cut tapped thread. Some aviation specification require form tapping for strength.

[@automan1223]

Nothing worse than a broken tap. HAAS / Terryberry has a good tap video everyone should watch. Thank you Titan !

[@paulmilligan1808]

Hey titan remember back in the late 90s where thread milling was less well known, I remember how many people didn't even understand how it worked and had a lot of negative things to say about it...now its common place and every shop does it.

[@forrestwhittington5227]

Youre the best. Big thanks from Small Town Welding Co. for the content.

[@ShInYaKu88]

i love threadmilling, cuz it works perfectly, but my boss says "mh no, too expensive..." :D

[@angrydragonslayer]

And then the broken taps pile up...

[@dominic6634]

@@angrydragonslayer lol to true

[@raymondaguilar9159]

Love your videos very informative I soak up everything you say and when I'm in school and already know certain things my instructors are shocked like " how does this kid even know this"

[@runejakobsen9958]

Try to make M4 thread 40mm deep in titanium grade 2 by thread-milling.

[@greyghost1962]

These 5-7 minute info videos are ideal, great quick learning. Cut down on the chit chat. I hope Titan does a lot more fo these. Thumbs up!

[@CrashingCarbide]

Check out the Mitsubishi center cutting threadmills. No need to predrill, they plunge mill and thread mill at the same time.

[@jimmeisch6654]

Im old school.use a gun tap to do the work and a bottom tap to finish a blind hole.put a mo1 to put molly in the bottom tap.i do it daily thousands of holes blind holes.gun tap first.then bottom tap.i do 304 at .375 18 at 1 inch of depth.i go down to .975 then the bottom tap to clean out the taper? But you can peck tap on fanuc.at 200 a bite.recommended if you got a shitpile of holes.ruffer finisher? No big deal rigid tapping on a good mori

[@TWISTEDSTRINGS69]

Never have done anything other then tapping by hand. When I need to tap Ti I use 3 step progressive hand tap method, tapered, plug, bottoming. Never have broken a tap using 3 step hand taps. After this I`m gonna have to try mill threading.

[@apostolrobert5810]

Where i work we hand tap and if we broke a tap or a drill in the part we EDM it out and it's good as new

[@wiremanken3753]

Another method for producing threads in hard materials you didn't mention and I haven't seen commented on for extreme instances would be to make an appropriate electrode and use an EDM die sinker and burn the threads. Obviously this method would not be at all suitable for any production work but to save a $20,000 insert made of hardened D-2(60-62 Rc) it is a viable option.

[@robincook8828]

osg has some roll taps that can handle tungsten tapping . We had a tungsten job with 8-32 tapped holes and a lot of parts. I didn't run it but saw there were problems with multiple thread mills . I remember my old job would use carbide taps by hand for tungsten but it was so slow. They called osg and were recommended a type of roll tap they have and they gave a rpm which seemed really fast but the tap worked pretty good.. tapped to depth in machine eventually it wore but after a good amount of parts

[@gt40f]

Also formed threads are stronger because they align the grain of the metal to the threads whereas cut threads cut through the grain. Graded fastener bolts and nuts have formed threads

[@NOBOX7]

you learn more when you fail then when you succeed , The reason is , Failure illuminates exactly how to get it wright but success may have you dangerously walking on the thin ice of the unknown , your success has left you unequipped to succeed every time .

[@jappimann9076]

METRRIICCCCC!!!!!! also love the channel. obviously, hence my constant pestering for metric.

[@xenonram]

We are in America, and we don't use metric. Whether you like it or not. Whether it makes sense or not. It doesn't matter.

[@keithhansen3963]

@@jappimann9076 Where are you from?

[@jappimann9076]

@@keithhansen3963 earth.. not sure why that's relevant.

[@keithhansen3963]

Jappi Mann just curious to know which great advanced nation you’re from considering you call people retarded and racist.

[@slash09r1]

@@xenonram I'm in America and I use both. And all it does is increase cost and cause confusion, especially when someone sets a tool in metric instead of inch on the comparator. I wish we would go to metric like we were supposed to in the 70's. I hate using an imperial system based upon the whims of a long dead queen. So does every mechanic I've ever worked with. Way easier cutting threads on a manual lathe as well

[@bobbywright3479]

Emuge makes taps for just about any material. I have tapped cobalt chrome molybdenum with a an Emuge carbide tap. We did over 300 holes with 1 tap.

[@ishanmishra5830]

This video was very informative. Hats Off! 1. At what hardness range we should stop considering tapping operation? 2. Which tool is preferable for medium to high carbon steel (Hardness

[@MyBreno1]

The Right tool for the right job

[@andriy3492]

0:45 ok Titan will do it just right Now -> Subscribed , Like and Comment - Greetings from Ukraine !

[@TITANSofCNC]

Thanks Aron!

[@vezyrvezyr8165]

Titan, I am a fan of thread milling holes, specially when they are blind holes. We have been trying to use plug taps for thru holes in 718incoel with a great results. The catch is; use a ton of coolant for chip flush and G84 with chip breaking cycle. It works similar to G73 ( deep hole drilling). Have you tried this in titanium material ? What about tapping NPT thread in titanium ( tapered minor dia.?)?

[@scott2603]

Threadmilling is always the way forward in hard materials. Taps just dont hold up. Great video.

[@mikecounsell]

Entertainment + Education 👌😁👊

[@restacopa123]

Heidenhain cycle 207. Treading with chip breaking. The solution for deep threading, even for M1.6 . Unfortunately, Haas doesn't have anything close.

[@DR.BELJAN]

Hello Titan Great and educated video. I have a suggestion to create a video about cutting holes and pockets in any metal for bearing fit, tolerance, as well cutting diameter of the shaft to fit in bearing. Thanks

[@gustavoa4607]

Thanks for your videos Sr

[@mehmettemel8725]

Thread mill certainly works a dream when it comes to threading NPT and BSPT threads in stainless steels.Never done any thread forming though,know how it works but can't get my head around how do you know when the form tap is at the end of it's life.When a cut tap goes blunt and you can feel it and replace it but with a form tap how do you know when to change the tap before it breaks?

[@mirokiko]

Yeah i came to this on my own experience yesterday on TOOLOX44 with M6 tap :D Tried every type of tap which i have and broke few (as a 5pcs. ) then come to conclusion - need thread mill which i didnt have in such small dia... today tool arrived and result is great :)

[@scottyach8766]

Recommendation for tapping extrusion aluminum blind holes?

[@carbonfibercreationswashin7213]

Can you do a video on soft materials like Magnesium or Zirconium? On this subject thread milling...nice because even EDM'ing out taps is time consuming.

[@daquinn]

Another great video, would it be possible for you to do a segment on thrillers in the future?

[@JaakkoF]

Answer to topic is at 6:05. Everything else is tangent.

[@MrZigzter]

So what you're saying is you could deliver a better thread than other companies, even though you both deliver the dimensional spec.. pertaining to grain structure and stress risers at the thread boundaries/critical interface. I.e. rough cut, roll then finish.

[@TITANSofCNC]

😧

[@NoDissasemble]

Your videos are great and really informative but I do so wish engineers in the USA would go metric like the rest of us :P It's so simple and intuitive rather than fractional imperial measurements. I keep having to pause and work out what sizes you are talking about haha.

[@TITANSofCNC]

Ahhh Went to Metric on my last video. Check it out

[@NoDissasemble]

@@TITANSofCNC Awesome thanks

[@TiMechOfficial]

Hey Titan nice Video Coupe you plz Make a Video about milling metal 1.2379 / 1.2842 / 1.2436 / 1.4301? We have these materials in our company, we are using "hoffmann garant" / "sandvick" tools. Could you show the milling on the dmu 50 we also have ( need some speed and feed rates).

[@bakedtoasty]

I only tap hard materials by hand with a dead center in a radial drill that way there is less risk of the tap snaping

[@extradimension7356]

Truly golden gonna bank that one ! (Great and clear explanation.) Thanks so much ! (Can't wait till you guys explain differences in machining for hardened materials + tool steels (in the direction of tool , die and mold.). Super Cool !

[@NielPatel]

What do you do when its M2.5 and M3 holes ?

[@danarrington2224]

If you are breaking taps it's probably not the tap's fault. Coolant is the #1 most important thing for tapping. If you are using the proper coolant at the proper mixture ratio then most of your tap problems will disappear.

[@raphaelholm]

Very nice educational video Titan. Just curious what do you consider hard vs soft? Stainless? Also I would highly recommend you try using Carmex thread mills. They are incredible. For example I am tapping a 2-56 in stainless steel .25 deep and I got over 1200 tapped holes before I changed the tool. Crazy!!

[@kw2519]

I’d say anything over 35rh? 1200 holes is pretty damn good at that size and material. I think it’s less about the hardness and more about the ductility and gall potential. Alum is soft but it’s also goopy. I just got done doing a 30xD .063+/-.001” in 304 SS. Ended up using some guhring 1.61mm parabolic tin coated cobalt drills and came in from both sides with less than .0003” of mismatch. I’m at over 100 units on the same drills. It’s all about them speeds and feeds

[@Sicktrickintuner]

Yep, don’t tap material harder then the tap

[@hubertbehrendt1438]

Sicktrickintuner than*

[@leebaldwin677]

Could you please do a quick tutorial using fusion 360 to cut a M6 thread in cobalt chrome. Many thanks in advance

[@reedmike1012]

Hey titan have you any experience with Worknc? So much different than mastercam. I've also used cimitron and tebis. Let me know if you have. Love the videos. I can tell by your facial expressions and eye contact that you love teaching. Keep the machinimg videos coming. Maybe try to break the harvi ultra8 lol

[@smgjb]

great video

[@NorthForkHollow]

I can understand picking thread milling over cutting threads for titanium where your hardness in the 30s Rc. But what about tool steels where you are in the 60s Rc? Is it possible to thread mill hardened tool steels?

[@TITANSofCNC]

Yes

[@NorthForkHollow]

@@TITANSofCNC Thanks! I will try to find some thread mills to test out on my D2.

[@jesperdenbraven1995]

Question. After you break a threadmill and are left with a partial thread, how do you finish this thread. Can you aling the new mill with the partial thread or do you just manually tap it with a cut tap?

[@krazykillar4794]

I LOVE THESE SHORT VIDEOS 👍 Forget the like button I need a love button .👊

[@themattrixrevolution]

What's a great brand of taps guys for 6061 aluminum and mild steel? (10-32) I'm bad at tapping and tend to break them even with all the suggested advice like tapping fluids, making holes larger, hand tap, etc.

[@cheeriomartinez]

But what about small stuff. Like 0-80 holes? Are there cutting taps for that? I'm stuck on this 718 inconel holes. I have broken too many taps on these small freaking holes.

[@gavinbutler4054]

Do a video on thread milling with Fusion 360. That’s something I struggle with! @titansofcnc

[@TITANSofCNC]

Ok

[@fruchtsafarigonzo364]

Titan you are a Living God ! Greetings from Germany !!!

[@danpheprivatelimited2927]

Hello, Nice video. Thanks for your teaching. We are into mass production of 12 grade EN-24 nuts for Aerospace applications. The requirement of the customer is tapping on hardened material. Any suggestion of what kind of taps we should use. We are currently struggling with it. We are trying with spiral point straight flute. I am planning to try with Taper Taps for rough tapping and then going in completely with a spiral point straight flute tap. Any suggestions from anyone would be really really appreciated. Thank you.

[@danl.4743]

This topic left me even more confused about it then before. Regarding thread milling, I tried to look around to shop for those, and I could not find any information like "this specific thread mill can do threads from this size, to that size". How can they not mention what size threads it would do???

[@bobbybowen8516]

What would you use if the thread is very small like "4-40" do they make thread mills for that or do you have to use a tap. I like using tapmatics on small threads. But my question is, is there threadmills for very small threads

[@scottpace8794]

Great stuff love it !

[@mealex303]

Is that part a stamp mould for stainless plate?

[@TITANSofCNC]

No, it’s a SubSea Manifold

[@xxToximan12]

i was tapping to inc 718 , no problem

[@jerryherrin6470]

My first shop tried using single point thread mills on titanium, never worked right.

[@therussianmachinists2409]

Thanks for the great video! Can someone help me hand programming an NPT the thread mill way? Thanks

[@dirkjanvanvliet]

Nice video! thanks Titan! and also a question, is it possible to do a video about q parameters? If you can use those in standard gcode controls by the way. We use Heidenhain but I don't know a lot about q parameters and there is not much time for learning about them unfortunately..

[@cesardarros5273]

Muito boa a explicação obrigado ありがとうべんきょうしました。

[@brawngp9443]

So do you just use imperial System Units (Inch)? Or are you also able to machine to metric Units aswell i.e metric threads? How hard is it to convert your machines between those Units? Do you recommend to offer both units to customers?

[@mirokiko]

BrawnGP94 metric or inches in Gcode is only about one g-code command, nothing else :)

[@DaljeetSingh-ge8gj]

Sir I am really appreciated with your work Experience. Or I want to work with you because I want to improve my knowledge

[@boonefreeman5384]

titan.... im struggling with thread milling a job right now...... material is 440c hardened .... threadmill is a 2-56 ..... any tips for success? equal step overs on each pass?

[@silent_tofu7921]

You should be taking smaller and smaller step overs as you reach your final OD. As you cut deeper with that 60 degree taper, you engage a lot of the tooth and run the risk breaking the teeth so your passes should get progressively shallower. Hope that makes sense and helps you out

[@vilts]

Kennametal catalogue says thread milling should be done with internal coolant. How bad is it with regular flood? I've a titanium job coming up and it would fit the bill nicely, but I don't have internal coolant. And these are blind holes.

[@michaelschalk4718]

vilts I just use flood and have never broken a threadmill. I am quite conservative on my threadmill speeds and feeds though as they are usually the most expensive tool. That and take multiple passes.

[@vilts]

@@michaelschalk4718 Thanks! Now I will definitely give it a try.

[@stefanhertweck]

Great insights. Thx!

[@derekkronenberger9376]

What would you recommend for 0-80 taps in 316? I keep breaking taps!:(

[@bryantburns3664]

Drill your hole to 55 percent thread engagement. Use a synchronized holder. Use Castrol molly d oil. And blow air on it while tapping. 15 SFM

[@ehamann2309]

How was the thread? 6:44

[@MotoBuilds]

The thread was 6:46

[@markreardon3472]

I have to admit Ive never done thread milling but when the thread mill broke and you said you just touched off, what about lining the pitch or threads, has this ever been an issue

[@TITANSofCNC]

Never an issue because the tools are identical and you simply run the exact same program. Z is the same... Move in etc. Simple and easy

[@markreardon3472]

@@TITANSofCNC I guess what I was thinking that if the thread mill wasnt exactly indexed in the holder, ie up or down more or less. Thanks for clearing that info ✌

[@BaldurNorddahl]

What is the downside? Why are we using anything but thread milling? Looks like it is fairly fast as well but maybe not the fastest. But if I am not trying to optimise the last seconds of the cycle, why not just use thread milling for everything for convenience and avoid broken taps?

[@therussianmachinists2409]

Look up "thread milling profile deviation". Its actually impossible to get a perfect thread profile, cause you're gonna be cutting perobolas instead of straight lines

[@jeraldorias1909]

Use edm to save the scrap

[@meocats]

have you seen the Emuge Punch tap?

[@Sicktrickintuner]

meocats yep!

[@tenntonnhammer]

Titan, I’m working parts that are 316 stainless. I’m trying to tap 3 holes 6-32, the taps keep just breaking and I have end mill them out. What am I doing wrong. I’ve tried several different brands and several feeds and speeds. I’m stumped. Please help.

[@Houcnc]

He literally said thread mill

[@bryantburns3664]

I guarantee your not drilling your hole big enough

[@mactec98]

Dear Titan cnc team, I’m a young individual in the trade looking to better myself as well as others. If you could consider making a video about inspiring and motivating your workforce I would greatly appreciate it. Derrick

[@davidschnabel5026]

Is it possible to single point thread on a CNC mill?

[@landonrulo3916]

Hey titan I was wondering if you know any good computers or laptops for cad/cam for cheap since I work a minimum wage job

[@dalvinregalado8227]

Hey! If i may... any modern computer or laptop will do. But i think the question is what version of the cad or cam that you need?

[@TITANSofCNC]

Autodesk Fusion 360 is free for students and hobbyists... and it doesn’t take a lot of power. Also runs on Mac and PC. Go to their website and search requirements... then just get something to those specs or better.

[@themechanix393]

@@TITANSofCNC I'm just a student as well and I'm easily able to run f360 on my small 4 year old laptop. Loving how accessible it actually is! 👍

[@zakmascut116]

Thank you titan.... Kabooooom

[@HidekiShinichi]

After the whole video I still dont even know what thread milling is...

[@joshuabairez6369]

Yezzirrr! Booom!🤘

[@czardomn]

Can't tell you how many times my employer tells us to tap titanium and 17-4 PH with a cut tap.....and I have become an expert on using an EDM/tungsten distro to burn out every size of tap..

[@bryantburns3664]

17-4 taps great