Why I prefer a DAS over a NAS

[@davidsenior2041]

Thanks Hans - loved the out-takes at the end!

[@AdmiralBison]

For me at home its a DAS One point of management and one point of failure. Your PC can provide all the software and manage the DAS itself. Connect the DAS to a stationary PC with some smart server management software installed you can share it out across the network and just be limited by the network card on the PC.

[@mranthony1886]

This video is more irrelevent now than it was then. Buffering always existed with winamp back in 98 without problems would work off SMB without buffering issues.

[@JeroenTop]

Hi Hans, I really enjoy your video's. But this time I do not understand your message. I run Roon on a Synology DS218+ (2x 10TB mirrored) with an external SSD drive for the Roon-library. I have a mix of CD-quality to DSD256-files stored on my NAS. I have a lot of renderers: Bluesound Pulse mini, Flex, Powernode 2, NAD VM300, Oppo-205, Chord Mojo-Poly, Sonos, iphone and ipad. Even wireless connections via a Google Wifi mesh network lead to no problem at all. I started using a NAS for different goals, so only a fraction of its costs could be allocated to the music part. So my feeling is that for people with multiple purposes for a NAS (like backing up your computers, storing photo's and video's, making backups to an external NAS for real off site backing up purposes), using it for digital music really is a good idea. Kind regards, Jeroen

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

To each its own

[@KurtPeters]

Older Mac Pro Tower running Audirvana Plus and a Yamaha WXC-50 was an easy and inexpensive solution for me.

[@Jonathan-ff4wo]

Nice! I was just given a Mac Pro 3,1 from late 2008. I'm thinking of how best to set it up for the same task.

[@christopher_martin]

if i have 10tb of movies and tv shows and i am the only one accessing it and only at home what is the best solution...NAS, DAS or just hdd or a hdd bay

[@nnm35]

Interesting information, but it would have benefited from some illustrative photos/video and from some text and links for items mentioned. (IMHO).

[@AlexReusch]

I run DSD256 files stored on my NAS (SATA drives) with Roon using a MicroRendu without any issues. Works smooth.

[@rBennich]

For me, migrating from DAS to NAS, was mainly about getting noise out of the workroom. iSCSI works great with TrueNAS.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

There are passively cooled DASses too

[@rBennich]

@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel For me, it's not the fans that sounds the most. It's the clackering from the hard drives. :)

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Ah, I see

[@alecgrolimond1678]

Great video and if you are not a propeller head or with limited funds I agree. I have one NAS that is about ten years old with 8 bays and recently a 4 bay for backup. I love NAS systems but I agree with your video.

[@slerched]

Why I prefer and went with a NAS (in no particular order): Playlists follow me everywhere Single location for all of my music (and video) files JRiver Media Center can be configured to play from memory, which means the file is copied locally, stashed in memory, then played back so the time issue "shouldn't" be an issue (shouldn't and I don't know enough to say this is 100% accurate) JRiver can play back to a PC, a NUC, Android device Plex (yes, they offer music playback) makes it simple to share the same collection via the Plex app on say, a TV when you just want some background noise and don't care about getting the best sound) Those are, of course, just MY justification for going the other direction and no indication as to what anyone else should do for themselves. And yes, I am very late to this party.

[@sjsphotog]

thanks. great info. Makes a lot of sense. Rethinking about NAS (not using mine) for my music only playback of FLAC CD collection (over 3000 CDs yet to be all burned). Would prefer a stand alone solution thats already built and ready to go so I dont have to deal with config/setup issues. Looking forward to watching your other videos to help me focus my needs and try and figure ouf the best path for me going forward

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Glad it was helpful!

[@uzefulvideos3440]

I don't get it. Why should you not use a cheap 2-bay NAS? Why do you need so much processing power in a NAS? I have the ZyXEL NAS326 with 2 4TB drives in RAID 1 and I am very happy with it. Streaming music from a file should never cause interruptions in a 1Gbit-network because the music can be buffered.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

It all depends on the software you use and how busy your network is. If the family is using each their own Netflix stream.... In my case the automatic backups for my video files - which are huge - get in the way. That's why I named the video "Why I prefer a DAC over a NAS" and not "Why a DAS is the only choice".

[@wildcat1065]

You mentioned that you use a linear power supply to a switch which is by your stereo system. I am using a PC and Netgear ethernet switch connected to my router in an upstairs office and a 10m ethernet cable then runs to hardwire my Sonore Microrendu in my music room in the room beneath. Do you think that a linear power supply to the office switch would be beneficial in my case or is the switch far enough away not to be an issue ? Many thanks Hans.

[@steveassante6797]

My recently purchased WD MyCloud Home (a "wants to be a NAS but doesn't appear to be") is destined to be returned for a 'Non-NAS'/'Non-WD' external drive. This should teach me not to use a drive Brand I've not seen mentioned in Computer Audio discussions. I'd agree that there really isn't any necessity to have my dedicated music file drive on a Network for use with my Bluesound Node 2i. The Node sits in my dedicated Audio System & is only in use at this location.

[@Yorks111]

Steve Assante very confusing that WD have two similarly named but very different ranges!

[@nully.emptier]

Fully agree... I use NAS but dedicated music server is way to go in some situations

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

👍🏼

[@trevorjansen4102]

I have another solution, I'm using a NAS to store the music on a gigabit home network and a Raspberry PI running as a upnp server. My Cambridge Audio streamer is then sourcing from the Pi. No interruption playing 192 / 24 flac. The Pi is idle during playback.

[@shaunvickers9255]

Thanks Hans. I wondered if you had tried Plex as a music server and how you felt it compares to the other options you presented.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

I don't like players that combine audio and video, but I haven't tried Plex.

[@mpv1608]

Hans I want to remove my Qnap Nas.What would be better for NUC/ROCK? Attached 8TB powered storage or non-powered? Can a Drobo DAS to be connected to Nuc/Rock,please?

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

If your DAC is connected to the NUC/ROCK over the network, the powering of the DAS will not be critical. If you directly attach the DAC to the NUC/ROCK, it might. But if you want 8TB storage I think you have no other option than powered storage. You can use a single drive or a RAID type like the Drobo.

[@mpv1608]

@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel My PS Audio DS is over the network connected. I'm not sure I can plug Drobo into Nuc and have no other desktop to make it available on local network..I'm all Mac wireless. Question is 2x4TB usb powered or 1x8TB with switch ps ?

[@anurasenarathna1703]

Thank you very much for clear explanation.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Glad it was helpful!

[@elankumaran5651]

Reasons against NUC: an x86 processor, due to it's general purpose legacy, can't go down in frequency when idling like an ARM (RPi, mobile phones) can. That and all the 8 GB RAM will generate heat, necessitating a fan. A Pi would do there. But then the external drive will have a fan and disk noise. If the collection is small enough, 1 TB USB SSD could be connected. Pi can't provide enough current for the SSD. There helps a good, powered USB 3 hub. That would be a 350 Euro noiseless setup. (NAS or DAS).

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Yes, but a RPi won't run Roon. Therefore I advise to use a NUC as audio server, placed away from your stereo, and a network bridge to connect to your stereo. That can be a RPi or better (like SOtM, Sonore, Pro-ject).

[@maurizioanselmi7267]

@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel if I place the NUC away from the stereo, how can I connect it to the DAC via USB ? Using a very long Cable ?

[@mustism]

I use a asrock deskmini 110 with a synology nas on a network. The audioplayer i use is called Lilith. It loads the whole song into memory and plays it from there. Is it still necessary to buy fancy cables knowing that there is no streaming involved and don't other players have this option as well?

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

I don't have hands on experience with your gear so I really can't stay.

[@yttean98]

I contributed some money via Paypal, I have 1 question: Which version of Linux is best suited for Roon s/w? Thks.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

I have done no testing, only used Arch Linux. Debian reportedly is fine too.

[@ivansoenario7195]

Thanks for all the great videos about the SOtM sMS-200 series. After watching them all, I think a sMS-200 Neo will fit perfectly in my hifi system (and my budget). And I also intend to acquire a NUC. One thing is unclear to me: can you connect the NUC directly to the sMS-200 (Ultra) Neo?? By means of one of the USB input connectors? Or do you always need a network cable? Thanks in advance.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

You do need to connect over your network

[@ivansoenario7195]

@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel 1) So when you use the NUC in a DAS setting/on location, you skip the sMS-200? (and thus miss out the quality of it's digital signal). 2) Is it possible to connect a NUC or any PC directly to the sMS-200 by using a crossover utp cable? Then you can skip a switch and it's potential negative effect on the audio data.

[@addictedtocardmagic]

Great video - I used to use a qnap nas with Logitech music player. I’ve recently upgraded to roon on a nuc running rock and it’s 100 x better I love it

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Rock on!

[@osirismarbles5177]

I have an old laptop (2010 Asus Intel core m, 4gb ram, Windows 10) that I currently set up as a file server just for music. I plan to upgrade the HDD to a cheap 512gb SSD. I only have maybe 100-200 CDs to host. Can I simply share the volume (as I'm doing now to my desktop, tablet) and buy a simple NAA (like the Yamaha WXC-50) to connect to my integrated amp? I don't want to pay for a Roon subscription. Will this setup work? Or is additional music server software absolutely necessary? Thanks!

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Yes that will work. An alternative might be to use Logitech Media Server (free) with a Raspberry Pi based Squeezebox emulator. You might watch kzbin.info/www/bejne/ep7IhquhZpmpecU and additionally kzbin.info/www/bejne/fWqoo5ilqad_bMU

[@alexarif2835]

Sorry Hans I didn't quite catch when you summarized your high end setup. You use the SMS 200 together with "Micro Lan Loop"? whats a micro lan loop and what DAC do you use behind the SMS 200 ?

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

"I use the SOtM sMS-200, the Sonore microRendu and - for my low end set - a Raspberry Pi 3B with HiFiBerry Digi+ Pro". BTW, you could switch on Close Caption the next time. These were the three network bridges I used then. I now use the SOtM sMS-200ultra NEO and the Allo USBridge.

[@alexarif2835]

Hello Hans thanks for the prompt reply. Silly of me not to think of the Captions. May I ask what DAC you are using behind the SOtM sMS200 or Sonore microRendu ? Since this video is recent, I believe your suggestion will be in high demand.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

You find all about my three reference setups here: thehbproject.com/en/About

[@nicolascrespo4643]

Thank you so much Sir

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

My pleasure entirely.

[@philpepp]

Sorry I’m a bit late to the party here! I am planning on upgrading my pc soon and was going to install Roon and have my audio files stored internally here. I then plan to get a blue sound node2i to run Roon through my hifi in a different part of the house, I also have a sonos speaker in the bedroom I think I can run Roon through too. Does this sound feasible? Any advice? Best wishes, love the channel.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

sounds like a good plan.

[@colnagomcq]

Hans does the large fan on the Drobo 5C not cause any issues in the system. Assume the Drobo is connected to the SMS200 yes so close to the system.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

No, the Drobo is in another room and now only used as backup. My music now is on an 8TB Usb drive that is connected to an Intel NUC running Roon ROCK. Also in another room by the way.

[@pierocostanzo4959]

I opted for a NAS solution years ago, but today with services like Spotify, Apple Music, Tidal, Qobuz is a local music storage really a necessity other than for backup purposes?

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

If you don't own music or just want to use the streaming services than local storage is not needed. But I bought a lot of music and love to also play my own music.

[@truthseeker6649]

if you're not a movie collector, a NAS is absolutely overkill. i only use 1 TB hard disk directly attached to my UDOO x86 then using USB to connect it to my DIY NOS DAC. works like a charm ! in the coming weeks i'll put my UDOO and hard disk in an aluminium case so it fits in a rack nicely and use a linear power supply.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

My music collection is 8TB and is directly attached to my Intel NUC.

[@Rendraco79]

excellent video

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Thank you very much!

[@Randyak1]

Dear Hans, thank you for your Video. But I have a question. How can I recognize that my Nas is to weak for my Logitech Media Server use case? I am using a synology DS218+. It is equipped with an Intel Celeron J3355 and 6 GB RAM. I run the LMS on it. My library mostly consists of Flac files. I have no DSD files. I am not aware of problems. That does not necessarily mean that there aren't some. How will potential problems/issues express? Thank you in advance Andreas.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

If browsing through your music is quick enough, you're fine.

[@Randyak1]

@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Browsing through my music library works very well. Thank you for your feedback!

[@basmeer4807]

6:35 I know I'm late to the party here, but nowadays ánd 4 years ago, there really is no use to spend € 1.800,- on a NAS (without disks?!) to run Roon for example. Pricewise the comparison with a NUC, tho perfectly viable, is skewed to say the least. A DS718+ or 918+ is perfectly fine to rune Roon on and are noway near as expensive as mentioned in this video.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Thanks for sharing. A lot has happend since I made this video.

[@donnied8127]

I am sorry to say, but I utterly disagree with you on this topic. I have been running NAS on one form or another for SlimServer (aka Logitech Media Server) for 15+ years, and a few years before that for ripped DVDs for my home theatre. I did start with a Windows NT Sever, then moved to FreeNAS and now I'm on OpenMediaVault (OMV) with SNAPRaid. Obviously, the bottleneck was always WiFi, but I did extensive installation of CAT 5e cabling all over the house and only Squeezebox Booms in kitchen and bedrooms were on WiFi, while everything else was on GBit ethernet. I have tested the network capacity and did multiple video streams on different players around the house while listening to the Squeezebox2 and could not exceed network bandwidth. Where it came to saturation was later date with high-bit rate BluRays streamed over the network, but even then I could do 4-5 HD streams and still have music unaffected. And before you ask, I'm a tight-arse, I was using HP Microserver N54 with dual core AMD, 16GB RAM, 24 port Gigabit TPLink unmanaged router and TPLink WiFi. Not to mention that LMS was running in a Docker container and all shared drives were over SMB and NFS for Kodi. Now, I'm running some form of HP Workstation 6005 (got them free from a company decommissioning), AMD APU quad core with 32GB RAM, OMV and external eSATA enclosure, with about 5 Docker containers doing various tasks. Yes, now that we are coming with 4K UHD content, I would need to rethink my network with 10Gbit router and CAT6a, also Mesh WIFi might come in handy as an upgrade from AC, although I am not in favour of WiFi over cable. But, nothing is stopping you from buying Synology and just add drives, although bit more expensive.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

There is nothing wrong with disagreeing. We live in a free world.

[@lapetitemortbis]

What is NAA? Is it something like Roon nucleus?

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

NAA stands for Networked Audio Adaptor, used by some brands as another name for Network bridge

[@lapetitemortbis]

The Hans Beekhuyzen Channel Thank your reply Hans. Network bridge is a network player or a streamer without a dac, correc? So Audirvana is going to be launching a network bridge? What is roon nucleus then?

[@philking7805]

Hans, forgive me if you have already covered this but what are your views on 'Audiophile NAS' devices, such as Melco, and whether they make a difference

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

I have not reviewed them so I can't say.

[@HistoryAmazigh]

Thanks Hans !

[@JoeCiliberto]

Bedankt Hans!

[@luciousbrun5437]

Hans, do you do consultancy work, say via the telephone ?

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

I lack to time to do this kind of consultancy. Sorry.

[@mikecees2230]

Hi Hans, In the early days of streaming I was considered cutting edge with my Squeezebox + linear PSU + DAC and LMS loaded on a PC. Years later I'm basically still running the same setup except I now use the Allo DigiOne + linear PSU with LMS into an ageing S/PDIF DAC. The Squeezebox is still around but is synced with the DigiOne and used only for its remote and screen to control the latter. My music is still stored on a PC but with bridged dedicated network card (not through router that is). I guess I've become a bit of a dinosaur by today's standards. I tried Roon and am aware of its potential but like my parents with their VHS am still more comfortable with LMS, plus it's free. I really like experimenting but just can't afford to try every new gadget or software that appears on the market. If you have some low cost suggestions that might improve sound quality I'm all ears. Thanks, Mike

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

There is nothing wrong with LMS. Squeezebox and Volumio are my favourite 'low end' solutions. I would invest in a USB DAC and perhaps switch to the Allo USBridge since I prefer USB over SPDIF. But stick to LMS unless you can convince yourself the € 425 life time Roon subscription not only is really more convenient but also sounds better due to a better network-optimised protocol called RAAT. You can still use the Allo using a Roon Ready program.

[@peterwhite4391]

Does a Chromecast audio count as a low cost DAC? Been using picoreplayer and DAC for a while. Chromecast plugin to LMS is a breeze to set up.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

very low cost, indeed

[@seesoftwr8032]

It was true before. More the time pass and more we are (moving for) NAS especially if we want doing more than listening to music and want it available on multi platform or location. And more time pass and more we are going to Cloud! BUT yea nothing compare to DAS for security, confidentiality, availability, ease speed accessibility manipulability... But using another device to share what ever data. As long as it is sharing or accessing data, on the fly, on network (not locally on your computer) it is just the NAS way.

[@QoraxAudio]

Don't forget that gigabit switches can greatly vary. Some switches have 1 gigabit/port where a port is both an input and output; others have 1 gigabit/output and 1 gigabit/input for every port.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Correct. And also the processor used makes a difference. Some switches do 1 gb/s when all ports are active while others drop in speed on heavy traffic.

[@QoraxAudio]

@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel As far as I know, the processor speed isn't a bottleneck anymore since they started to use dual core CPU's in the switches. I remember those times that home network switches were 50 to 70 euros, so people bought hubs instead and expected the same performance haha However, the size of the buffer memory and bandwidth of its memory bus still matters in certain situations.

[@chrisipad4425]

Thanks Hans :)

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

🙏🏽

[@mw4609]

Wow, that seams extremely complicated. Thousands of EUR, couldn't even keep up with the number of hardware or software components needed. Sounded like a university class was necessary for some of them. Here's what I did... Get an nice Asus router that has NAS capability, attach an SDD or HDD drive and set the drive to be shared on the network. Then access those music files on whatever devices you want (even remotely on mobile devices when away from the house). Examples of devices I use to access music in the house are; Denon (HEOS), Bluesound NodeN130 (BluOS), many NAD streamers (BluOS), TVs, smart BluRay players, laptops, tablets and phones. An even simpler way to stream music from a drive is plug the SSD/HDD directly into any of the BluOS gear, give it a couple minutes to index (3TB drive), and done... no nonsense (or masters degree) or additional gear required. Why over-complicate something so simple? Spend all that extra time and money enjoying the music.

[@simonlai]

What is DAS in the full name? Thank you.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Directly Attached Storage - for instance a USB drive.

[@simonlai]

Got it thanks

[@jdjd2922]

This is crazy (niet jij Hans) all this indexing. Needing rather beefy servers just for music, running databases over a perfect valid indexing system everybody seems the have forgotten. The file system. Speedy and lightweight and 'always' available. I never saw the need of indexing thousands of LP's, still don't see the need for thousands of CD's or their ripped versions. If you want some indexes, the file system provides hard links. Build a folder structure of "tags" and make hardlinks to the music you want there. KISS. Sadly music players seem to be unable to function with db's :(

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

I'm sure you know a lot about computers but I'm afraid you still have to discover many advantages of file based audio....

[@jdjd2922]

@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Using file based audio since the late 90's, I'm aware of what can be done. Regarding network, is RAVENNA/AES67 already a thing in home (high end) audio?

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

No

[@marcus1970]

Thank you.... Best end ever

[@rokodrago]

What is a DAS exactly?

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

Direct Attached Storage, for instance a USB drive.

[@rokodrago]

Greetings Hans, thanks for the response, i have a Mac mini with a 4TB external USB drive connected in which all my music is stored, the problem NOW is that when the external HD is connect to the MM everything gets very slow to process and i have been considering the route you have already, -NUC-STREAMER-external HD...i have some questions, would another SSD for storage inside the NUC be more convenient than the external HD? if one stick with an external HD would it be better to be an external SSD? does having the dedicated NUC for playback music instead of the MacMINI, reduces noise? what should i do first, get… Streamer or NUC?, Kind regards

[@negative949]

Das is for people who hate the internet :)

[@SteveT__001]

@@negative949 Or..... for people who aren't slaves to the internet ;)

[@freesaxon6835]

@@negative949 lol😂

[@andrewuk]

Great and informative; I’ve used a das for yonks. Performed better than when I used a nas for things such as plex and roon.

[@kernzilla]

DAS > NAS 👌

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

👍🏼

[@davehwang6815]

One word: Disagree.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

That's fine. No problem.

[@claudec2588]

I appreciate that you have extensive experience and knowledge. But, combined with your extensive use of acronyms and your accent and the European name for things, you talk to fast. I have to often stop the video and replay the previous 10 seconds to understand what you've just said. It's discouraging. Makes what I'm sure to you is, and possible to me, eventually, simple, seem dauntingly complicated. Please speak slower and understand we weren't all born with electronic engineering in our blood.

[@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel]

You might switch on subtitles.