Why I STOPPED Hunting with a 308 Rifle!

[@reloadnorth7722]

Hello. I'm 60, been hunting since I was 8, 40+ years ago I bought a 308 and never looked back. I only hunt moose and have harvested from 600lb cows to 1400lb bulls. Never more than 2 shots. I reload and never go heavier than 168gr bullets. 228 yards was my longest shot so far. I use my hunting skills to quietly work my way in towards the moose to make a clean ethical kill. If I want to do longer range shooting, I have a 300WM waiting patiently. Stay safe and happy hunting.

[@joshuadaniels6024]

That is awesome! I'm glad it has worked so well for you. Thanks for your input.

[@OBSZIDIAN548]

It has worked for millions......

[@lifeisgood070]

Can I ask how you like 300 WM? That's the rifle I'm thinking of getting next. Tricky to figure it all out

[@ronaldroehrick4872]

Can I say bullet selection is the most important consideration? The 308 is fine with proper bullet selection.

[@CliffedOutAdventures]

Bullet choice is very important. Thanks for your thoughts!

[@charlesking8542]

The bullet does not know if it was launched by a 308 or 300WM.Bullet design and shot placement rule.

[@Hunter_300winMag]

​@charlesking8542 @350-400 yards , the bullet being launched from a 308 vs 300wm definitely makes a difference. Especially in mono or bonded bullets.

[@JamesM-l5g]

Something Is not adding up about what these two guys are saying….

[@peterking1038]

I agree, nothing is adding up with these two guys. I have hunted with .308 since I was 12, never had a problem. I knew there were full of horse dung when the skinny one said they hiked 70 miles to get to a hunting spot on public land. On top of that he kept saying shoulder shots were not working. I don’t know what his ability to shoot is but shoulder and double lung shot have always worked for me with .308 165 gr soft point bullets. These 2 are really trying to sell some bullshit.

[@efrey614]

100% 168 grain at 2000fps doesn't go skin deep. Possible he bounced the round off the ground into the animal at 300fps. Much more penetration with a .308 at 1000 yards its still very deadly. A 9mm will penetrate much much more at 400 yards and possibly kill the animal .

[@ctb3343]

Facts lol These guys are nuts to not be able to get through an elk shoulder within 200yards. Talk about a bad shot and nothing else.

[@jamiehurtt3530]

​@peterking1038 exactly ...Read my earlier post

[@OBSZIDIAN548]

They put trash, click bait about a tested caliber, and then try to convince those attempting to learn that they have a clue. They haven't piled up enough animals between the two to convince anyone about killing...

[@brodychapman8348]

Fuddest video of the day award goes to you guys.. If you believe that a 308 bullet at supersonic speed just stops in a matter of an inch or 2 and leaves the level of damage shown in your picture, you're a different kind of special.

[@fredeb67]

At less than 300 yards to boot.

[@kybowhunter1974]

Lmao it’s not fudd look at their age group. Closer to a millennial, genx, etc your age group. These guys are fools that are using a light construction high bc bullet your now the new fad. A fudd would be using a partition or bone breaking construction type bullet.

[@RobertNoble-jy4gd]

My brother inlaw recently shot a bull moose at 45 yards in the head and the cheek bone stopped the 180 trophy bonded tip, when he turned a few went into his rips which put him down but I was shocked with the first shot

[@brodychapman8348]

@@RobertNoble-jy4gd sure he did..

[@charleschestang8937]

At 400 yds, with the rounds I use it's close 1,500 ft lbs, a shoulder isn't stopping that. I don't know that guy was using a reduced recoil round or what but with the right load and bullet people are taking elk further than 400yds with a 308 win. without any problem.

[@efrey614]

💯 he had to have bounced the round off the ground into the animal. 2000 fps isn't stopped by skin! That's common sense. A 9mm will penetrate at 400 yards, and he said it happened also at 200 yards. Something not right here. At 1000 yards it will penetrate more.

[@matthewangotti7205]

My buddy shot a 550 lb Cow Moose with a 308 and 180 grain bullets. It went about 35 yards and keeled. Granted, that was within 100 yards but still. I can't believe you would even question it on muleys. Any regular sized deer, 300lbs or less, no problem out to 300 yards, anyway.

[@albertaoutdoors9220]

My dad is a 308 man 1970s rem 700 and running low on 180 original Winchester silver tips. Basically a power point with an aluminum? Nose tip Many many moose taken with that combo. From 45 yards out to 450 yards. Most taken 100-200 yards though. 308 is plenty when you do your job. Personally I’ve taken 2 moose , 4 deer and 1 black bear and 2 wolves. I like the 165 weight class and switched from sierra game kings to nosler partitions a few years ago. 308 is easily 300 yards and in moose/elk And a 500 yards deer and black Bear round So practical and lots of accurate ammo and rifles out there

[@Mrkeats5487]

Not to sure why your having doubts about the 308 have taken deer,bear,elk,hogs . Coyotes, it all depends on your grain selection And your shot placement. You’re not shooting past 500 yards.

[@ericsmith5919]

So in summary, what I'm hearing is "I like getting bad hits at long ranges on big animals, and .308 doesn't hit hard enough to make up for what a shitty hunter I am." No offense, but if it took until your *third* shoulder hit at 400 yards with 0 effect before you realized something was badly wrong, the problem is you.

[@CliffedOutAdventures]

Thanks for your thoughts.

[@josecasillas6383]

AGREED!

[@priestesslucy]

Yeah 400 yards is seriously pushing the 308 or the 30.06 for that matter. I'm sure really skilled marksmen can do it, but I really don't want to shoot an animal outside 200 yards personally

[@ericsmith5919]

@priestesslucy3299 The vital zone on an elk is pretty big, so a 400 yard shot isn't unreasonable if you've got something like a tripod. But if I was gonna do that, I'd consider a .300 Win Mag with a 200gr bonded or 180gr copper bullet the absolute minimum in terms of power and penetration capability.

[@trumpsagenius6914]

So you had a bull elk hang around for three shots to the shoulder?🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@nekminet1315]

Sounds like a fairy tail to me. I’m just a little confused on what advantage you guys see by spreading lies about a perfectly adequate cartridge?

[@joshuadaniels6024]

Thanks for your thoughts. We are just sharing our experience with this cartridge.

[@NorthRiverGuide]

@nekminet1315 you saw that too where the bullet was placed on the inside of the elbow where there is no bone to hit, where such a shot with that tough bullet at 308 speeds at 400yds would most likely pass right through with little expansion? These guys are liars.

[@efrey614]

Either it's a lie or he's bouncing the rounds off the ground into the animal. Skin won't stop a 9mm at 200 or 400 yards.

[@davidwalsh8612]

Are they trying to convince the wife that a new rifle is justigied?

[@surrelljr]

I’ve been around M-60’s when I was in the service (7.62 NATO), same round, this just doesn’t add up. I know a guy that rainbowed a 30-30 at an elk at around 600 yards and it penetrated the chest cavity and got a lung. He got his elk, however I wouldn’t recommend it.

[@robertbent7999]

Don't think 308win the problem. It the operator

[@juhanivalimaki5418]

The 3.08 Windows operators' segmentation fault

[@NorthRiverGuide]

Straight up fairytale is what that is. Either a complete misinterpretation of the evidence that was presented, or a complete lie, not much else going on there. I use much smaller and softer constructed bullets than that tough bullet at a wider range of velocities and i see this story as completely full of it.

[@efrey614]

Yes it's a lie or he bounced the rounds off the ground into the animal. If accurate a 9mm will penetrate just fine at 400 yards. A .308 wouldn't go sk8n deep at 1000 yards either. He said it also did the skin deep at 200 yards lol.

[@geraldclemens1682]

All because the 308 isnt the BS hyped up new fangled 6.5 sneezemore. 308 been around very long time. Works just fine. Will continue to work just fine.

[@johnpoole8321]

Right, use 300 win mag. for crazy long shots. Up to 300 yds is fine for 308 and it's part reason the standard barrel for 308 is usually about 20". Because they don't expect you to go to crazy distance. Why not just hunt right and get closer to the animal.

[@dad2817]

I quit hunting with 308 cause when I shoot and then open my eyes the thing im shooting at doesnt get hit.

[@stewarthoy7357]

This is not a 308 problem! This is a distance/shot placement issue! I feel for big game, use a good bonded bullet (I prefer accubond) and limit yourself to 300 yards.

[@garyarmbuster9016]

I think these 2 birds don't know how to shoot. I use the 308 in Montana. Arizona Canada never had a problem.

[@davidhixson1735]

My dad was a diehard 308 guy in Pennsylvania and so was I. The average deer kill there is under 100 yards hunting whitetail and black bear, so even a 30 / 30 was very popular in my family. Coming west I felt the urge to get a bigger gun and purchased a 30-06. A very good caliper but just too much kick for me. A friend let me use his 270 and I fell in love. Now I understand why it is called the "Gun of the West". The 270 Win. is my all around gun. And it too has lots of ammo available. Nice video guys.

[@CliffedOutAdventures]

Yeah, Josh started with 30-06 like I started with the 308. Now he's a big fan of 270 and switches between that and his 300WM.

[@DV-ol7vt]

I don’t feel like a 270 has less recoil than a 30-06.

[@HunterForEver12]

I don't know if your 270 Win is a lot of better than a 308 Win. If you take the right bullet it will fly like your 270 Win almost the same. Over 300 yards you can see some difference between 270 and 308 but if you use 150 grain bullets in both calibers, they will be just identical. 308 has a little bit more drop, but 270 use lighter bullets. Take a light bullet in your 308 and it will be just a laser..

[@shafffisher]

Heaps of my fellow countryman here in New Zealand have shot large red stags out to 550 yards with the 308. Bullets dont just stop on a shoulder. Use adequate bullets within their expansion velocities and elk are in trouble.

[@headcarter4656]

Fellas I have been killing whitetails with the 308win for years and love it. And I have been hating on the 6.5 creedmoor. But I can tell you that as far as my experience goes with the two of them, the 6.5 creedmoor hits just as hard out to 3to4oo yards as the 308win regardless of what the numbers are. And when you go further the 6.5 all day. And believe me I have been hating on the 6.5 creed,but it's made a believer out of me this year.

[@hunterjohnson5635]

The .270 is severely underrated. It penetrates better than the 06, is flatter and has less recoil. The GOAT.

[@rustynutzgarage5496]

Agreed!

[@dawwlo]

For a deer sized game 🙂

[@hunterjohnson5635]

Nah, it’s better in general

[@trumpsagenius6914]

I like 270 win 257 and 300 weatherby

[@OutsidetheEchochamber]

That picture is not a boat tail, either a flat base or looking at the tip of a bullet that went completely through resting between hide and shoulder? You don’t know what bullet you used?

[@JohnDoe-ud2cc]

With those 3 elk that the 308 didn’t work with, a 30-06 wouldn’t have made any difference. Everyone says 30-06 can do it all, well a 308 shoots the same bullet at only like 50fps slower.

[@HunterForEver12]

Actually 100 fps, but you are right. It is not so big difference, even 270 Win, 7mm-08 Rem, 280 Rem, they are all middle class and they work all pretty much the same, so if you want something with more speed and energy, than some of the magnum calibers is the choice.

[@JohnDoe-ud2cc]

@@HunterForEver12 exactly, my 308 hunting load is 165gr accubond at 2800fps.

[@HunterForEver12]

@@JohnDoe-ud2cc Nice I use 30-06 Geco Express 165 grain bullets, my Father had 308 Win, there is no difference between them..

[@dennislopez7411]

I call BS. I’ve shot elk at 400 through both shoulders with a 308. The terminal Ascent works just fine. The shot must have been over a 1000 yds to stop at a quarter inch.

[@zachp7603]

even at a 1000 yards it wouldnt have stopped like that.

[@joejas22]

The us army should look into “Elk Armour”.

[@SabertoothDefenseSystems]

LOL, this one got me! XD

[@eddiekane1202]

You can take anything with a 150gr Remington CoreLokt if you know what you’re doing

[@davejphysutube]

This is nonsense

[@cervus-venator]

I went in the opposite direction than you. I went from a 270 long action to a short action 308. Different game animals and shorter distances makes this an ideal cartridge for the deer and pigs I hunt in the South East. I certainly don't blame you for increasing to a magnum for bigger game animals and the distances you have.

[@austinanderson8485]

Interesting I started with a 243 for about 5 years then got my own rifle in 270 so that I could have the chance for bigger animals like elk and I haven’t looked back my go to rifle for anything I did but a 308 this year for the gf as that is what she has shot before and was comfortable with

[@cervus-venator]

@@austinanderson8485 Cool Austin - I started with a 6mm Remingtion and shot many a deer with it for about 10 years (79-89) and then had my 270 built by a local gunsmith. I used it exclusively for about 20 years (90 -2010) and then picked up the 308. A Ruger American Predator because it was an 18 inch threaded barrel and I wanted something I could put my suppressor on. I love hunting with a suppressed cartridge. They are still super sonic, but man it is so much quieter.

[@austinanderson8485]

@@cervus-venator I agree just got my supressor last year and already don’t wanna shoot without it lol

[@cervus-venator]

@@austinanderson8485 Very cool Austin. I just uploaded a video where I had to re-zero a rifle because I didn't have the suppressor and need to use this gun to hunt with. I prefer using the suppressor on every hunt that I can.

[@hawknives]

My Remington 700 -308 shoots 190 and 220 grain bullets accurately. Maybe try that on Elk. 4-500 yard range. Slow moving heavy projectiles penetrate. Christ bless!

[@couespursuit7350]

What weight bullet would not penetrate an elk shoulder at 400 yards?

[@CliffedOutAdventures]

I believe Michel was using the 178 gn terminal ascent bullet. We are still learning how all this stuff works but we're very surprised by the results.

[@couespursuit7350]

Thanks, that was the last of three wondering what weight bullet in the first failure to penetrate experience? @@CliffedOutAdventures

[@jacobpetersen5662]

Can u double check that. The pic doesn't look like a TA. Thanks man. @@CliffedOutAdventures

[@trumpsagenius6914]

A 125gr would penetrate more than that😂

[@garysmith3913]

Can't wait for "future episodes". Thanks for the laughs, guys.

[@wyfromewa5618]

Have listened twice for your post and if you’ve lost faith in a rifle enjoy your next rifle. 308 is a solid starter rifle or for those backing down from the magnums. If you want it to kill everything, you need to be a great hunter to get within 300 yards depending upon loads. I have transitioned to lighter monolithic bullets for my 308 and reload for speed. Go to the Outfitter CX bullets, Barnes or you home grown monolithic Hammer bullets. If you’re looking at factory loads they’re loaded down to work in the AR-10 platform hence the slow speeds. Right bullet with right velocity for elk. Due to the 6.5 craze I have seen the same with bullets only a few inches under the skin. Enjoy the 308 for antelope to start the year. I would have went with the 300 WSM for your maneuvering you enjoyed with the 308. Enjoy the 308 for your antelope gun and 300 WM for elk and deer in MT since the seasons are the same.

[@efrey614]

Bouncing the rounds off the ground. No way it wont go past the skin at 2 3 4 hundred yards. Sorry not real. 2000 fps 168 grain at 400 yards doesnt penetrate like a sling shot! This is common sense!!

[@hellowaldoo]

Wait what????? 1/4" at 200 yards? Was your bullet tumbling? Did you shoot a hybrid cow? Sounds like bullet choice.?.?.?... 200 heck even 400 fps more would not penetrate to the vitals in that spot you hit with the same projectile. 1/4" really? Something isnt adding up. If it wasnt bullet than it was definitely horrible shot placement and if you need an elephant gun just bc you are willing to take that horrible shot says something. Its a live animal, not a target. Even if its for meat and not sport, respect the life of the animal and make good shots

[@user-ds9eq8zx2n]

250fps more velocity in a magnum makes the difference between a bullet stopping on fur vs effectively putting down elk?

[@juhanivalimaki5418]

My speculation of what really happened: Some young guys overreached and tried to hunt elk at 300-400 yard distances. In many cases they missed and hit the soil or trees around. The slowed down ricochet bullets hit the animals. Fix? Limit to 200 yards first, until hit always where you want.

[@TopoftheHill7484]

I dropped 2 whitetail this month with my 308, 1st a heart and double lung at 130 yards, ran 30 yards, the second was a base of the neck shot at 150 yards, lights out right there. I was using my PSA 18" AR10 with 150 grain Winchester XP, I think it will be my new hunting rifle and ammo.

[@jasonsparkman4830]

You guys don't make sense. A 178 or 180 grain moving at 2600 is not 2300lbs of energy. Second. If you are having issues with bullet expansion, you are picking the wrong bullets for the wrong caliber for the wrong job. 308 thrives on cup and core, bonded and partition style bullets. Third, if you use the 1500 lbs of energy for elk sized game, 3006 and 308 are good out to 300. On deer out to much further. Stating facts, it is what it is.

[@desertrat79]

Pretty much. I have other(better) loads that I sometimes hunt with but 90% of my hunting is a 165gr Hornady interlock. Holds together a better than traditional cup and core. Keep it under 350 yds and I'm good for anything.

[@Guide504]

Here in the uk 308 win was my first hunting centrefire. I have had 26 of them so far...i have taken over 2k deer asside from any other game over 38 year's...I no longer own one. I hand load and have from the start, over all the years have discovered that rotational velocity kills, and you get this with high sd bullets for calibre which also aids with wind and longer range consistency.

[@ReloadingWeatherby]

So... if 308 Win doesn't have enough power past 300 yards on Elk.... what does that say about the 6.5 Creedmoor?

[@johnwilburn8319]

Needmore is good to 100,000 yards!It only drops 1".

[@Meh-hr7gq]

At around 350 yds the 6.5 starts to surpass the .308 in ft lbs of energy. They are actually very close in most aspects to make it negligible under 350.. The 6.5 starts leaving the .308 behind in all aspects past 350 yds.

[@ReloadingWeatherby]

@@Meh-hr7gq That's not true. Let's use the 168 gr ABLR in 308 at a pedestrian 2800 FPS. It beats the 6.5 Creedmoor in energy all the way out to 950 yards. If you're wondering what I'm using for the 6.5 Creedmoor... 142 gr ABLR at 2750 FPS. My point is... neither one is a good big game cartridge

[@Meh-hr7gq]

@@ReloadingWeatherby considering every ballistics chart disagrees with your assessment, I don’t know what to tell you. Energy switches from .308 to 6.5 at 350. Less drop. Less drift. Especially in the ELD x which has the highest BC. Are they the “best” big game cartridge! No. Can they work? Yes. It’s been done a lot.

[@ReloadingWeatherby]

@@Meh-hr7gq Sigh... the 142 ABLR has the exact same b.c. as the 143 ELD-X. If you're going to make dumb claims... you better do your homework. Where do you think I got the energy numbers from out to 950 yards? Unlike you... I ran the data before running my mouth

[@bayfilly1]

This is the silliest video I've seen in decades,,,,maybe ever. The raw physics alone always rules. If you use a 150g 30 caliber bullet, it doesn't matter if it comes out of a .308 rifle or a .30-06 Springfield or a 7.62x39 or a 30-30 Winchester,,,,,take your pick. Send them all downrange at 'x' velocity and the terminal results will be IDENTICAL !!!!! Force = mass x acceleration.....F=MA. Probably chapter 1 in any high school physics book.

[@km6731]

Thanks for sharing your experiences. I had a cow elk a couple years ago and contemplated the .270 or 308. i chose the .270 as it didn't fail me on my last elk. I had a hunch this may be your gripe. I shot a doe with a 165 grain at 2650fps and the barnes ttsx mushroomed but only about 25 percentof the bullet and the deer ran 50 yards.

[@craigbraswell4269]

Actually, I have 220 gr ELD-X ammo for 308. Bullet weight ranges from 110-220 grain, one of the few calibers that have a bullet weight limit that is twice its minimum. Also, a 308 doesn't burnout barrels like hyper-velocity cartridges will.

[@kassilewis5511]

Why i STILL hunt with a 308....Because it works! Ive shot coyote, bobcat, and whitetails from 20-450 yards. Last 5 deer ive shot with my handloads have werent able to even take a step away. Same rifle shoots 1/2(sometimes better) moa out to 700 yards with target loads during the off season. Thats why.

[@brianlee6849]

350/400 yards is to far for 308. I used to live in Alaska and I had two friends that haunted moose with the 308 their load was a nosler partition 165 at 2800 ft per second. They would consistently take moose with one shot but they both limited themselves to about 200 yards max. The 308 is great but not for long range. Honestly I think hunters should stalk their prey and get closer. I know remember back in the '80s and '90s everybody's story was about how close they could get. Today it's like everybody's story is about how far away they can shoot an animal. I think we've really lost something in ethical hunting . Thank you

[@NorthRiverGuide]

350-400 yards is too far for 308? Maybe with a flat point or round nose bullet, st which point it can still kill. With a more sleek design, 400yds isn't a far shot at all.

[@brianlee6849]

@@NorthRiverGuide What happened to hunters? Real hunting involves stalking your prey and making a clean ethical kill. I lived in Alaska for 7 years in wide open tundra and never shot past 200 yards with 30-06 and 300 Weatherby Magnum. This was back in the '90s I don't remember anybody trying to make long shots. People always bragged about how close they could get. Not how far.

[@nathanbailey9153]

So basically, you tried to shoot nearly 100 yards past your skills and capability, and you are disappointed with the results? Wow ... just, wow. Remember, shot placement is king - not caliber. Caliber is important, in the sense that it is sufficient, but shot placement is much more important. A lesson you apparently haven't learned. Only a truly poor hunter is that bad with their equipment, that lacking in understanding of the equipment's capabilities and their own capabilities. Really, you probably aren't safe at any distance with any cartridge, considering this story. It seems you have a fundamental lack of understanding of how hunting and firearms work. Seriously, either get educated or put down the hunting rifles and stick to paper, instead of making hunters in general look bad. Usually I like to say "Hunting is for everyone", but sometimes it isn't. Also, "... about 350-400 yards ...?" What was it? 350 yards or 400 yards - it's a fairly big difference for .308 - For a 165 grain bullet (.447 G1) leaving the barrel at 2800 fps (decent .308 speeds) the drop at 350 yards is 20 inches and the drop at 400 is 30 inches - that is a 10 inch difference - enough for a complete miss. Which it sounds like you have had. Multiple times. Considering this video, and your other video (Almost Freezing to Death on a Hunting Trip), I think you need to accept that you are a danger to yourself and others out there, and if you can't learn to do things safely and correctly after all this time, maybe you should take up other hobbies.

[@joesutherland225]

Im a bc canada guy and yes a 308 is a tad light it will do the job but shot placement is much more critical . If you can find someone who has a 35 Whelen try their gun bet you love it hard to find ive had mine 35yrs+ i reload but brass even is tough sometimes

[@gsnicholas8522]

Brass is easy. Get some 30-06 brass and an expander mandrel. That’s all you need to make brass for the Whelen.

[@NateAllen-kt1xr]

Bet the locals love you two

[@desertrat79]

I'm hanging on something that was said....your concern with 308 is at extended ranges. Any cartridge will fail if shot beyond it's effective range. 308 maxes out at 300-350 for elk. If you decide to take longer shots then yes, get a Magnum. Also something of note is bullet construction. It's not likely that a Nosler Partition or a Barnes TTSX would stick in a scapula. Maybe an old core lokt or something would. I'm not emotionally biased in this argument. There's just too many variables being ignored.

[@klaytonwarner662]

Elk Minimal energy is around 1500 ftlbs. That being said a safe margin is closer to 17-1800 ftlbs. The 308 with 178gr runs down to around 1600 ftilbs at 300 yards. 300 yards would be absolute furthest shot you should take with 308 and that's not even ideal. if you stay above 2000 ftlbs on elk with 30 cal you should be fine.

[@mordyfisher4269]

I use to be on this train too but there is way more to the story then ftlbs of energy. You need to know what your bullets are doing at various velocities. For example my old 303 loaded with round nose partitions will get 50 percent expantion at 500 yards. The same weight bullet in Winchester soft point gets zero expantion at the same distance and just zings right through

[@jeffdunn6228]

Explain elk killed with arrows show me an arrow making 1500 ft lb of energy

[@hawknives]

A lot of guys shoot Elk with 6.5x55 Swede, successfully..

[@gsnicholas8522]

It’s a fantastic round, and it’s probably taken more moose than every other cartridge combined.

[@DJ-3551-1]

6.8 western is the do all caliber.

[@joshuadaniels6024]

I think your right. Its sounds fantastic! Have you been able to harvest animals with it yet?

[@Randy_Savage_ohyeah]

limited and $$ ammo

[@patcady310]

I’ve used the 308 lots along with many other cartridge choices. As a further hunter, I’ve shot probably 5000 coyote with various iterations of 22 cartridges. Hunting big game the one common threat is that there isn’t a mammal in the universe that can’t survive without lungs heart liver and or blood. The package delivered makes the difference not only the postman. A few hundred feet per second is inconsequential inarguably. Most hunters are really shitty to mediocre marksmen at best. They opt for magnums to make up for the shortfall in their abilities. Range estimation is a joke and I’ve proven that point numerous times where I bring along my laser rangefinder and get into ranging discussions with other hunters and when asked , I’ve yet I meet any guy who’s been even remotely close to their estimates.

[@eugenemarshall596]

Never considered the .308 to be a good elk round for whitetail under 250 yards its great in my opinion

[@MelvinHunt-iu8tv]

I owned a 308 You need to check your shot placement or ammunition or Learn to shoot at a lesser distance

[@milo555100]

By “today” standards 3-400yds is a shortish shot…..only it isn’t on live game in field conditions. Not at all. 7mm-Mag is a great out west caliber. Due to the longish shots out west, I agree, .308 can be a bit anemic. Thank you for the info and for making the vid.

[@russellkeeling4387]

I live out west as you say and have never needed to take a 400 yard shot. If I can't get closer I'm not much of a hunter.

[@milo555100]

@@russellkeeling4387 im a southeast US (FL/GA) hunter and beyond 100yds is very rare. Good to know. In Wyoming my daughter had a 437yd shot on a Mule Deer. It was as close as we could get on the last day of our hunt. She made a perfect shot w a 10mph RtoL wind. I couldn’t be more proud. It was a .308. Id love to live out there during hunting season. Maybe one day! Thank you Mr Keeling. Im not an advocate of long shots. The guide knew her ability and gave the green light. Glad he did.

[@rioa1139]

CRAZY theory- Your barrel twist is off. This is the only way I can see a 30 cal projectile at those energy levels not penetrating deep. I think you are wasting potential energy on a tumbling projectile. You are shooting a heavy projectile from an older rifle - until recently many manufacturers used slower twist rates for lighter bullets. I have seen rifles that shoot nice holes at 100 yards and that shoot keyholes at 4-500 yards. Now here is the real kicker, your round doesnt have to keyhole to still be losing tons of energy. If it is marginaly stable and right on the edge of a fast enough twist - it could still be producing close to rounder holes in paper but dumping lots of energy. Think of a tight spiral football throw versus a slightly wobbly one - LOTS of wasted energy. Confirm this on paper and not steel targets. Try the lightest ttsx mono your rifle can shoot - at the highest speeds it can shoot and you will see amazing penetration.

[@jorgesolis9468]

Most 308 rifles have always been 1:10 now original 7.62x51 nato was 1:12 I believe or a weird 1:11 either way bullet choice matters

[@Celticobrien]

Thanks for sharing your experience. I find it interesting that the box of 308 terminal accent says its effective out to 1000 yards and the 270 TA says effective out to 850 yards. My son shot his first bull with 270 TA at 150 yards. High shoulder, through and through. I thought it preformed well.

[@joshuadaniels6024]

We still absolutely love that terminal accent bullet! It's preformed so well. But at 400 yards it just didn't have the gas to go through the elks shoulder on that one hit.

[@texpatriot8462]

What a mess of a discussion. If he started seeing problems with the 308, what took him so long to change?

[@DV-ol7vt]

@@texpatriot8462 he was probably trying different bullets

[@shafffisher]

What was your muzzle velocity?​@@joshuadaniels6024

[@Randy_Savage_ohyeah]

Interesting video to say the least..... I will never bash the great .308 but for a one-gun western hunting cartridge you picked incorrectly from the get-go. You would have been much better off with something like a 7mm Rem Mag or 30.06. To ethically hunt Elk you should have a minimum of 1500ft lbs of energy at point of impact and at 400yrd the .308 with most ammo does not have it. A Barnes TSX/TTSX would have been your best bullet option for Elk at 300+ yards. Then you go the opposite direction with a .300 Mag....great Elk cartridge but overkill for most Deer and especially Pronghorn.

[@michaeldavis4338]

It’s never the gun, it’s always the guy. Sometimes the bullet, but always the guy.

[@nolemons]

Great info.I am in B.C. Canadistan looking into my first hunting rig for white tale and moose primarily. Leaning towards the 300 mag for sure. Tikka 3x lite or the new version of the Ruger American. Budget friendly. Solid shooters.

[@gregpace4676]

Spend the extra money for Tikka, I own both. I would get a .300 PRC rather than the .300 WM (I own both) If you do go for a .300 WM, you really need to get into reloading to get accuracy. .300 PRC is good with factory ammo (wich will be more expensive and harder to find)

[@maxtibbetts2102]

canadistan fr LOL

[@shafffisher]

This is actually terrible info. The 308 is a proven 450 yard elk rifle with the correct bullet. Ain't no way a bonded bullet going 2000fps would just stop penetrating an elk

[@HunterForEver12]

Nice video guys, I would say that you need a little bit lighter bullets with more speed at those long range shots. I mean if you shoot an elk at 400 yards with 308, just take Barnes TTSX but 130 grain bullet and if you are reloader, than push that load up, it must be hot if you want to work at those ranges... This is just something what I would do..

[@NorthRiverGuide]

That's a pretty poor plan there. For long range shooting, heavy for calibre is the way to go. Lighter bullets especially those made out of a less dense material, bleed off velocity at a much more rapid pace than a heavier bullet with the same shape. At 400yds out of a 308win, that 130gr ttsx hitting soft tissue at that impact velocity isn't going to exceed calibre diameter expansion.

[@REDNECKROOTS]

308 n 3006 been getting it done longer then you been breathing. W powder advancements and projectile. Sitting on top And will continue to . 308 isn't at its best in wide open . There is better tools for Long range applications. 308is at home in the timber 200yards n in 308 is hard to beat.

[@johnpoole8321]

Bingo! Hence the reason for shorter action and barrel at 20" usually.

[@lifeisgood070]

Can you do a follow up video on the 70 mile hike on public land and what that was like? I'm having trouble understanding that part. Realistically you don't look like you would make more than about 12 to 14 miles of progress per day with a backpack carrying a tent and food and a rifle and ammo, especially in the winter or fall months when the sun sets earlier. I'm not trying to be disrespectful. I'm just trying to understand how that situation worked out on foot without vehicles of any kind

[@1RobHunter1]

A 308 Win - 2600fps 300yds limit, 30-06 2800fps 400yds limit, and 300 WSM 3000fps 500yds limit. You loose 200fps every 100yds when it is shot. That gives you the impact to bullet expansion velocity limit in a 30 Cal Copper or bonded bullet. You still have to hit them in the vitals to kill an animal / elk.

[@OBSZIDIAN548]

As elk do, you keep shooting until it drops? Sounds horrible

[@jonathanmitchell3733]

Stick to hunting under 400meters, even better under 300meters. The .308 with a 150gr bullet is your best bet at those distances. Also don't use a shorter than 22inch barrel, because you need the speed at over 300meters. 308 150gr bonded bullet drops Kudu very reliably even at 300meters in my experience. Even dropped an Eland, but that was at 20 meters, so that does not count.

[@wallacerose7499]

Would you recommend any caliber between 308 & 300 WM 7 PRC ? 7MM Mag ?

[@suzgabverdugo933]

7mm rm

[@bigrich7026]

I was on some crazy steep stuff this year my magnum lenght barrel was a pain in the ass. Was thinking 7mm-08 pistol.

[@Strutingeagle]

Does the guy on the left really have to exagerate everything he says?

[@joshuadaniels6024]

Thanks for the feedback! This is first video and love getting comments like this.

[@JamesM-l5g]

I have that same bad habit

[@zachp7603]

This guy is using faulty ammunition. What he is saying is not possible, unless there is a production error or storage error. A friend of mine used faulty sako ammunition where everything seemed fine but twice the bullet would just bounce off a boar. Then he realized the ammo is not ok. 2 weeks later sako announced a faulty production. The story you are telling makes no sense. Either the ammunition is faulty or you are not telling the truth. It is physically just not possible.

[@CClifton5678]

Sounds like most of your problems with the .308 is shooter issues and incompetent bullet selection. I took a bull at 750 yards that weighed 989lbs with a .308 using a 175gt TTSX, one shot, less than 3 steps and he fell. Through the front shoulder and right into the heart and hes now on the wall and the meats in the freezer.

[@robhutton6246]

They used to hunt elephants with 308 successfully ,maybe check you put enough powder in your loads.I doubt you will be able to handle recoil of a win mag

[@jeremystyron9721]

Your can do way more with a 300 win mag over 308 . You can go as low as a 110gr to 240gr if you wish I have 3 300 win mags I shoot 168gr 3340FPS in one 190gr 3168 in the other and 208gr 2920 in my 3rd . I can say this they are all fanomanal . Way less drop than 308 way more velocity . I reload but even in factory ammo 300 win mag is hard to beat . I chose a 30-06 over a 308 and I have . If you want a short action get a 300 WSM same performance as 300 win mag in a non belted short fat cartridge. Now you. An get 30-06 , 300win , 300WSM in a AR-10 platform . Way better combat rifles that's just my opinion. Good luck and good hunting. God bless you and your family God-bless America 🇺🇸

[@jP-nw7nm]

The little antlers in the back is what happens when you don't use a 308 🤣

[@russellkeeling4387]

Late in my hunting life I got a .308. It is accurate as can be and a wonderful cartridge but I already own rifles that fill every type of hunting I want to do. The .308 didn't do anything rifles I already own do, it's not in the safe any more.

[@beardedrancher]

Meanwhile 303 British which is about the same is one of the most popular moose and bear rounds ever.

[@kraigteeling7420]

These guys should not be hunting.

[@fredeb67]

Something was wrong with your ammo or you were in an alternate dimension.

[@acheson10]

Is this a troll?

[@craigbraswell4269]

So what you're saying is that you were hunting lage game with an intermediate cartridge? There is a reason it's called an intermediate cartridge.

[@Mountainghost72]

Elk are tough animals, i once had to put 3 rounds of 7mm 175 grain core lokts in a cow, all vital hits, its not the round boys, I hunt with an 06, this year im thinking about switching days with a BLR 308, haven't shot anything with, will see, coming from an ex elk guide, i would rather guide someone with a 308 that there comfortable with, than someone with a Magnum that there afraid of the flynch

[@pietercillie]

Morning Guys. Stop talking nonsens.The Nato 762, 308 is the best allround caliber that you can find..If you have never been in enemy territory in a operasional combat zone with one then please stop critizising the 308.It is the best.I am an Angola Bushwar veteran.

[@kingy300wby]

I’ve always said a 308 is an ok round, until you have to go hunting!! Seen plenty of people use them over the years, never seen anything impressive with 308.

[@trumpsagenius6914]

308 will kill at 500 yd lmao

[@dominicteresi3835]

I've had my 08 for a couple of years now and I've see it as basically the same as my 270.

[@shocker12270]

With all due respect people need to start hunting and stop shooting 400 yards out at most animals of that size this type of hunting in my opinion is unethical . Now you are complaining

[@NorthRiverGuide]

The issue isn't with folks shooting past 400yds, the issue lies with the folks trying shots on game beyond their abilities. Some folks can consistently and humanely dispatch animals past 800yds. Some shouldn't even be attempting shots at 30yds.

[@tikkamarksman]

If you shoot at long range it's very hard to see if if it's branches and stuff in the way... A bullet that's tumbeling is going to act that way ,it's not penetrating.. This theory apply to what you saying... a first shoot, than spreying lead.. It's easy to hit something in the way and mismatch what bullet ho did what ?

[@andrewkelk8414]

Sounds like a bullet construction or bullet placement problem more than a calibre problem.

[@curtiscrystalnelson7034]

Stop using shitty ELDX and ELDM and Berger bullets on game. Use a Nosler or a Barnes. No way a bonded bullet out of a damn 308 doesn't penetrate a shoulder on an elk. Ask Randy Newberg what he's killed dozens and dozens of elk with

[@edwardabrams4972]

My father killed a trucks of elk over 20 years when the 308 first came out in the pre64 featherweight! Shot placement and bullet selection are so important on elk and that’s why he used Nosler Partitions for best results. For deer it’s fantastic but there is better elk choices out there, even Randy Newberg admitted the magnums are a better choice!

[@NorthRiverGuide]

Randy Newberg clearly admits he is not a ballistics expert, and he doesn't use eld match bullets so he doesn't have the experience with them so I have my doubts he would even talk about them.

[@LoggyBayou]

ELD are trash. Even a 180g Core Lokt, Fusion, Interlock (lead tip), PowerPoint, etc. will hammer elk to 400 yards, through the shoulder, every time.

[@curtiscrystalnelson7034]

@@NorthRiverGuide but Randy Newberg is smart enough not to use them because he knows that bullets like Nosler and Barnes work. Eldx Bullets are the dumbest idea anybody ever had to shoot an elk with. They are frangible large varmint bullets at the very best. They are not made to penetrate they're made to fragment on impact, and are responsible along with Berger bullets and a Max's for more wounded animals every year than most other bullets combined. If you're shooting elk with eldx bullets, you don't know shit about ballistics and you're taking a chance every time you shoot a large animal with one

[@curtiscrystalnelson7034]

And match bullets are for shooting paper, not animals

[@Jameskenomis3]

Was this channel stopped?

[@shafffisher]

It should be

[@louiskiser9989]

I would say 300WSM with Acubond would do a good job

[@rogerwoodward9657]

.a 308 at 1000yards still has the same power as a 357 magnum at point blank range....nuff said..

[@km6731]

i getting 2650 in a 18inch barnes ttxs 165

[@duanehopland7506]

308 always been my favorite round .Taken antelpe , big desert mulies, big bull elk but I have hunted Africas gemsbok twice and it knocks them down ,but they get up and run off. I limit it to everything but not the caliber for brown bear and african animals

[@fabulousoffroaddesigns5080]

You should try 125 gn TTSX's in that 308.

[@johnwilburn8319]

At 3300 fps they are lethal!!!

[@louiskiser9989]

Have a 300wsm with 180 Schrocco,s 26 inch tube

[@garrytalley8009]

No rifle is a do it all. You need the right tool for the job. Out west the 270 Win might still be the king for versatility, ammo availability and long-range shooting within ethical hunting distances. But it's no do all either. Compact short, barreled rifles are BS. With a muzzle brake heavier hitters aren't that bad. What do you young guys know about guns? Not much.

[@efrey614]

Nope. This has to have bounced into the shoulder. If these guys are telling the truth ,or at least think they are, then either it was a way underloaded round as a 9mm will kill at 400 yards no problem. Most likely he is shooting short ,and bouncing the rounds off the ground into the animal. This less than an inch penetration on a shoulder wouldn't happen even at 1000 yards with a .308. Near 2000 fps at 400 yards doesn't penetrate like a sling shot.its still far more power than a big handgun at its muzzle so it wount bounce off the animal. Either they are mistaken, or lying. Usually penetration at range is fine because what goes first with velocity loss is mushrooming of the bullet so it actually penetrates easier. 168 grain moving at 2000 ft per second will obviously penetrate more than skin deep. That was a hit at 300 fps or so. I bet it bounced off the ground first, because under loaded round wouldn't even be close to on target at 400 yards.

[@KeepingitAnalog]

300 Weatherby Mag

[@jaredmarsh4002]

Bro on the right sounds like the old dog from fox and the hound.

[@ericmccurdy2257]

I think it all about shot placement

[@ChronicalsofAl]

Using the wrong bullets. Barnesttsx won't stop like that