Why I Stopped Using The Workman Keyboard Layout

Over my keyboard journey I changed from Qwerty to Workman after reading its extremely compelling website. In this super short video I take a quick look at why I abandoned the Workman layout after 6 months.
The reason this video is so short is as a result of my experiment splitting up these videos rather than making one long one. This particular one didn’t quite make sense to include in one of the others but is almost too short to be its own video!
The previous two videos in the series are here:
Switching From Qwerty To Colemak DH (via Workman)
• Switching From Qwerty ...
What’s The Best Size & Style Of Keyboard For Learning Non-Qwerty Layouts
• What’s The Best Size &...
Next videos in the series:
Should You Use a Non-QWERTY Keyboard on Your Phone?
• Should You Use a Non-Q...
Tools & Tips For Learning A New Keyboard Layout (Or How To Type Faster!)
• Tools & Tips For Learn...
How To Type Faster By Cheating (Alt-Fingering)
• How To Type Faster By ...
Links from the video:
workmanlayout.org
colemakmods.github.io/mod-dh/
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[@BenVallack]

Subscribe to my new custom keyboards channel! www.youtube.com/@BenVallacksKeyboards

[@ckames22]

Thanks for wasting time trying productivity tools, so we don't have to? But seriously your videos are great and I am learning a lot from them

[@WhenTheUhh]

Ayy, I did the same journey, I'm glad we arrived at the same conclusion. Started by touch typing with QWERTY, switched to Colemak, noticed wrist strain, switched to Workman, noticed left ring finger weirdness (in my case also overall slower speeds), switched to Colemak DH and an ortho layout, never looked back.

[@christiangeuer-pollmann666]

Hm, in January switched from QWERTY to Workman/Ortholinear. I'm around 55 WPM now (which is faster than all my previous stuff). Wondering if that switch is then again months of lower productivity?

[@skyhappy]

@@christiangeuer-pollmann666 Should be a few or couple hours, not months

[@WhenTheUhh]

@@christiangeuer-pollmann666 From my experience I'd say yeah. I've been typing on QWERTY with 5-6 fingers my whole life, only figured to touch type when I was 30 (then had around 60 WPM). This whole layout journey took me like a 7 months? Now a year later, I'm averaging around 100, by far more comfortably/sustainably than ever before, and that's going to last for the rest of my life. I'd say it's worth it.

[@christiangeuer-pollmann666]

@@skyhappy let’s see. Started my Workman-2-Colemak-DHm journey an hour ago. The clock is ticking 🤯

[@NicholasMarshall]

It's so weird hear that others had the same issue with workman. I can't quite say what it is other weirdest on thr right hand layout. It felt like workman was aggravating my existing injury. Been very happy with Colemak DH.

[@GT-tj1qg]

I respect you for being able to recognise when an experiment has negative results. It's so valuable for viewers to learn the honest truth about a subject.

[@brunogc2411]

Keep up the great videos!!! You are the one of the biggest influences to the shenanigans I do :P

[@BenVallack]

Many thanks!

[@crazdmonkey1265]

Nice been looking forward to this. Thinking about making the change too

[@kilinrax]

Good choice to switch straight to Colmak-DH. I spent 3 months with Colemak before switching, and the muscle memory still trips me up after 2 with -DH.

[@purplelord8531]

a few years and a few attempts later, I decided to use colemak from now on! I'll be using your kicad tutorial next - so glad that I found your videos before because I'm on the road now!

[@classicrockonly]

Colemak DH user for 3 years and typing on an Ergodox EZ. Love it

[@jeezusjr]

I switched to Dvorak in 2008. I'm a VIM user and never changed the default vim keys. Twelve years on, I am experiencing terrible RSI which was nearly debilitating last fall (2021). The vim movement keys j and k and the vowels o and e are what I think is giving me my RSI. Too much work is being done in my non-dominant hand. The RSI is in remission at the moment, but I think that is because I got a personal trainer and started lifting weights at least two times a week. I also make sure to take a break every hour or two and not type on the computer after working hours. I've also done significant work on my vim config and started using the "vim-hardtime" plugin to stop using the j and k keys as much as possible. Next step is to switch keyboard layouts (looking at colmak-dh or RSTHD), or switch input methods completely (like the CharaChorder). This channel is a big help so thanks!

[@tuananhdo1870]

I am using colemak dh (from dvorak) but consider for a switching to mtgap or beakl15

[@_.gray._]

I took about two months to make the full switch from QWERTY to Dvorak, and I'd say it's worth it. I experience a lot less strain now, and I can type for longer. The switch was a huge challenge, but at some point I'd recommend giving it a shot!

[@Vanisher]

Dvorak is a horrible layout. Use something actually good - some of the best ones are semimak and Colemak dh

[@_.gray._]

@@Vanisher I did a lot of looking around before I made the switch, but Dvorak fit my typing style more than the other common alternative layouts; I'll take a look into those though!

[@verkhan527]

Dvorak is a beautiful layout.

[@floenele8892]

dvorak can be a good layout, but then you lose easy keyboard shortcuts like ctrl+zxcv

[@bashu9]

@@floenele8892 program your keyboard, add a layer with zxcv shortcuts

[@ridwanulhaque5299]

Thank you, I was considering halmak as an alt layout but saw the charts in this vid. I trust this chart as i did try to use halmak for a while and ran into the same problem with the left ring finger(i thought my finger was abnormal 😑) that bothered me so much that i could not continue any more. going colmak dh now. Another reason i did not know that it uses a roll kind of motion and uses same finger less, which i came to know from your video.

[@J3lbow]

I would love to see you try a tapstrap. It registers gestures similar to the chorded keyboarding concept. It could especially be useful in the way you like to use your iPad outside.

[@BenVallack]

Hah looks like fun!! I triead a Leap Motion controller a while ago, fun but there is the major issue of unwanted input. Be interesting to see how this solves that.

[@matthiasdebernardini3388]

Yup switched to colemak mod dh and haven't looked back, inward rolls are extremely satisfying once you get the hang of it.

[@AdamHillikerLikesRobots]

Haha I did the exact same thing it's funny how compelling and well written the Workman website is. But after switching to colemak dh, like you I found the rolling and comfort shot through the roof. I felt that this is the kind of thing that must be learned through experience (I don't place a lot of value in the numerical quantification of comfort as I saw captured on a lot of the sites comparing layouts, which is why I started with Workman I think - the philosophy of it really struck a chord), but I'm also seeing that a lot of folks are coming to the same conclusion, so now I'm thinking all standard keebs should change to colemak dh. 🤣

[@skyhappy]

I read the workman website as well, was indeed well written, and I was planning on switching to it, but ben says Colemak dh and is even more convincing

[@alexczar1456]

Hi, I'm currently evaluating Colemak-DHm vs Workman, you mentioned in your previous video, that you've found issues with Workman on high speed, with what I assume D on left ring finger. I'm only starting out and I did try workman for a day, then went to Colemak, I find | R | S | a bit frustrating ar well as M being in the center. Do you notice any discomfort on Colemak DHm at high speeds? I'm thinking about trying MTGAP/CTGAP as well, have you looked at those? PS: my target is 100 wpm (had around that on qwerty - 17 years of practice).

[@BenVallack]

I found R and S tricky too, but not actually akward. Just hard to learn. Y O and U also tripped me up a lot. I am experimenting with ISRT now which is very interesting and very easy to learn after Colmak DH.

[@VietTranPhuoc]

Is WR on the same column a problem? I see it awkward

[@gardener2.054]

It's kind of a ergo ez keyboard, do you think this kind of keyboard is making a difference in terms of wpm in the long run (compare to classics keyboards)?

[@bullzebub]

so.. ive been thinking about switching layout but i have a "serious" problem. im swedish. any tips? should i try to "translate" a layout like colemak dh?

[@Spectarium]

I've been using dvorak for about a month now and I've noticed that it is easier to type on and I don't have to work as hard when typing

[@alsmith8633]

Great video! What do you think about colemak DH with wide mod and symbol mod? Do you use these? And which colemak DH layout do you use: ISO, ANSI, or Matrix style?

[@BenVallack]

Matrix but I already changed to ISRT and haven’t looked back!

[@nickgoogle4525]

Colemak has good marketing and is longer on the market than some others, but it is neither really good for English, nor does it really allow many (inward) rolls, nor does it work nicely with non-english languages, yet you still have to learn a layout. Learning a completely optimized layout is a little bit more work, but not that much -- in relation to long-term usage. I learnt a Colemak-like layout (which I self came up with) in a month. A fully optimized layout took longer with 6 to 8 weeks to achieve the same speed between 40 and 50 wpm -- which is not fast, but fast enough to than switch it in daily use and then speed up your learning.

[@aaplies8879]

I’m interested in your layout- what made it different enough from colemak / how did it solve the problems you had?

[@nickgoogle4525]

​@@aaplies8879 ​ Simple, Colemak and similar layouts still have too many same finger bigrams, especially when using not only English. The advertised rolls can be much more frequent as well and very important there should be more hand alterations as well. My layout solves all those points. It is based on the ADNW variant XOY and also includes the ideas of the symmetrical typing project. I will explain it on my website when I get around to find some time to do so: keyboard;hashnode;dev/ (replace the ; with . because YT does delete my post when I post a link....)

[@rlamacraft]

I’ve been using Coleman-DH for the last six months, since my moonlander arrived, and I wouldn’t look back - so much better

[@mbrsart]

I switched to Dvorak a long time ago, and I found it way more comfortable than QWERTY. I'm still fluent in QWERTY, just not as fast as I used to be. I have to think a little harder sometimes. Now that I'm getting a little more into the mechanical keyboard hobby and looking to retire my two Ergodox EZs, I'm looking at Colemak-DH and maybe QGMLWBY, which is a fully optimized Colemak-like layout. So, I'm basically looking at dumping all that hard work to learn Dvorak and moving back to a QWERTY-like layout. But I guess it's for the best.

[@youbie4life]

Do you have a link to your Colemak DH layout on Oryx that I can use to configure my moonlander?

[@brenbren6138]

Ditto

[@Greenadee]

I've recently started learning workman after swapping to a split keyboard (CRKBD), I don't know if I have it in me to learn another layout again.

[@BenVallack]

Going from Workman to DH was way faster than Qwerty to Workman for me. Take a look at the ISRT layout though, similar to DH but with some great improvements.

[@chuckliddell6492]

Thank you Ben for the videos, you have inspired me to build my own split custom keyboard. I have a question on vim with alternative keyboard layouts: how do you setup your vim keybinds because you lose the comfort of hjkl when you switch to a different layout?

[@skyhappy]

Did you build one? You should get the iris with kailh box brown switches, they are smooth, light, tactiles. Also great price.

[@chuckliddell6492]

@@skyhappy I am waiting for the parts to arrive at the moment but I am planning on building the atreis keyboard which is like a hybrid between iris and Atreus.

[@skyhappy]

@@chuckliddell6492 it's not split, that's not good

[@chuckliddell6492]

@@skyhappy that's true but since I am planning on handwiring it having 2 micro controllers and bridges between splits seemed more difficult since I am not really experienced in this stuff.

[@skyhappy]

@@chuckliddell6492 A bridge is done through a wire, no special things needed. And I would pay someone to solder the stuff on and assemble, the expertise is beneficial.

[@dev_troy8903]

what are the bigram penalties ?

[@dflynn]

Did you mean the *right* ring finger? The bigram PO may be more common than DS and XS combined. Anyhow, same-finger-bigrams are more manageable with strong fingers (index and middle fingers) but Workman’s SFBs are too frequent on these fingers, too - notably CT, but also RM

[@dflynn]

The worst SFB in Colemak is SC but it’s on a strong middle finger and I find that on an ortholinear keyboard I can type both SC keys at once (like chording) or (less frequently) I can twist either my ring finger or my index for the C, resulting in a finger roll for SC

[@BenVallack]

It was the left hand but possibly my left hand is weaker/less happy about repetitive movement.

[@NuclearSpinach]

On your 34 key video you mention ISRT. Could you do a video about why you switched from Colemak DH to ISRT? (QWERTY user here, practicing DHm)

[@BenVallack]

Will try and do at some point!

[@oetzla]

would love to see this@@BenVallack

[@JP-su9ib]

I've changed my keyboard layout to workman and so far so good but when I boot up the Mac on the Lock Screen I can't use it. There is only the British layout which is annoying and also missing on characters included in my password. Does anyone now how to change that?

[@jeffreyjflim]

long-time QWERTY / "once Dvorak" user here. Would have gone with Dvorak full-time, except that it requires dropping and relearning all the muscle memory for my shortcut keys. That *might* be acceptable...except I am ALSO a staunch Vim user. Will not use any other editor for my coding / text editing. So here's my question. I am ok with picking up Coleman-DH... but I would like to still keep to the placement of the shortcuts that I've learned. ESPECIALLY for Vim! no way hjkl is going to be all over the place... So. I do not have any fancy keyboard now, but I am considering getting one. Would the Moonlander support macros where 'i' in one layer triggers an 'i', AND also a switch to a different layer (which would be my Colemak-DH layer)? If so, then that would make picking *and* actually using an alternate layout feasible for me.

[@BenVallack]

Yep you can certainly have a qwerty and a Colemak layer setup on the Moonlander. I use Vim too - I remapped hjkl to be in the same place but left everything else to just find a new position in the new layout. (Once I had dealt with conflicts from moving hjkl). I found I was actually using a he other shortcuts by letter name in my head rather than position to some extent to it seemed pretty easy to move those shortcuts over.

[@mr.tv001]

theres a keyboard layout called SWAP6 it as the name implies only needs you to swap 6 keys and your ergonomics will drastically increase i dont know if you knew this or not but might as well inform anyone else if you already knew about it

[@BenVallack]

Yeah in some ways I wish I’d experimented with more of those minimal change layouts. In the end I ended up going to nuts levels and I now use an 18 key keyboard with the alpha keys split over 2 layers.

[@vu_derArchitekt]

how s about another layout? Dvorak, Engram,...?

[@_Magnum26]

What layout do you use now?

[@BenVallack]

ISRT

[@user-kj4kh2qn9y]

as a workman typer, you should go for colemak DH. better choice

[@brydon10]

I like how workman uses both hands about exactly 50/50.

[@mahdi7d1rostami]

When typing the word Graham using workman, it felt really weird. Now I know why. G H M is all typed using the same finger with only one character in between. But typing qwerty felt even weirder. My main language is something different from English and they have a standardized keyboard for it that is not as stupid as qwerty and when I started learning to type English I know based on my feelings that qwerty is a no-no. I'm going to check this Coleman DH too. seems promising. Also, I remember the first time that I felt the weirdness of typing Graham with workman because when using Qwerty I had never experienced such a thing. Now that I think more about it I recall that the only reason for this weird placement of Qwerty keys is so that the relative keys be far from each other so by design it won't happen in Qwerty.

[@yeezet4592]

If that's is how you are typing you're doing it wrong

[@awelotta]

@@yeezet4592 you mean angle mod? (are you saying that M should be typed with the index finger on Workman?) in the case of workman, this finger assignment shouldn'tmake a big difference for SFBs (DSZ+RHX columns would generate comparable sfbs to QAZ+DSX+RHM columns). of course, OP could try using an alternative fingering nevertheless for tricky words like "Graham"

[@thoperSought]

I'm wondering if anyone has experience with both Dvorak and Colemak-I never really learned QWERTY properly, so I still have some weird muscle memory leftovers that trip me up. I like Dvorak a lot, but esp. watching these videos, I'm wondering if I should try Colemak.

[@BenVallack]

Have a look at ISRT too, I am using a modified version of it at the moment, very good.

[@thoperSought]

@@BenVallack thanks! I'll look into it

[@LadyTink]

You should really learn steno. I use a layout called "cnaey" and I'm learing stenography right now to replace typing

[@user-ft2md2gd4s]

that’s a whole new world!

[@AdamHillikerLikesRobots]

I watched a fascinating and compelling video of a woman extolling the virtues of steno for programming (I'm a programmer) and am now certainly curious about taking the first steps...

[@difflocktwo]

What are you doing that requires so much typing?

[@BenVallack]

@@AdamHillikerLikesRobots Do you have the link to that?

[@BenVallack]

@@difflocktwo web design / software development ( www.setseed.com ) − coding and email all day long!

[@cyanophage4351]

There are so many contradictions on that workman website. You're right, the stats for workman are pretty bad. That LY bigram feels awful too

[@BenVallack]

Yeah Workman is history now - so many better options now.

[@yggdrasil9039]

Dvorak has issues with the F key. Again, like your eperience with Workman, you don't notice this until you start to get up to speed. Once I hit 80wpm on Dvorak I noticed the F key was totally misplaced on Dvorak, and pulls your RH off the keys, which is not supposed to happen with a touch typing layout.

[@ichigo-roku]

If you don't use this key for "f" you'll have to use it for another letter, and it'll be the same problem with this letter.

[@yggdrasil9039]

@@ichigo-roku F is quite common in English, that's the problem. Think of 'for', 'from' 'of' 'off', these are all common words. Far better to put some rarely used letter like 'k' 'x' or 'q' there, so you know it's only on special occasions you have to move your hand out of place.

[@rubanov]

Already half a year using Halmak. Great layout

[@musicman24X]

I'm planning on learning Halmak. Any issues or inefficiencies I should know about going in?

[@rubanov]

@@musicman24X my advice is simple: learn words, not letters. Get real text, if you are programmer - try code samples. I have huge speed difference between practice and real code, because have learned different words :-) Also, some letter’s positioning feels weird, but it happened because other letters are placed beautiful, just on contrast.

[@musicman24X]

@@rubanov Thank you. :)

[@sitapati]

Halmak is The Way.

[@Cal97g]

this guy just changes for changes sake

[@ichigo-roku]

Did you even watch the video and listen to it lol?

[@BLUYES422]

ugh been learning workman for a while now and now you got me thinking i should switch to colemak dh. which i was just learning before deciding on workman lmao

[@user-ot1dv6ri4f]

I'm considering switching from dvorak as I have a boxing fracture (old injury from 10 years ago) on my pinky finder on my right hand. I've used dvorak since 2012 for my work programming. Would you suggest switching to this one, considering one goal is to relieve stress on my right pinky? I've arrived here after my research into Workman.

[@BenVallack]

It might be worth going full nerd and making a layout that doesn’t use the pinkie at all. It would be perfectly possible. There is an excellent discord group for custom layouts. discord.gg/WQwveS2R