Why I think Mastermind and Sinmas are badly written

[@underbakedbeanie]

I want to say this again for any die hard defenders coming across this. You do NOT have to watch my video. Don’t have to like it, don’t have to subscribe to my channel and you definitely don’t have to leave a comment just to call me a hater when I explicitly said I don’t hate this show. I know this won’t exactly stop anything but I feel it’s necessary for me to put up as many disclaimers as possible. Please be respectful in the comments or your comment will be deleted. Thank you 💖

[@remnants9974]

the reason octavia might feel relatively well-written might be because she's a teenager, so she's more believable with the kind of character writing viv can pull off.

[@underbakedbeanie]

@@remnants9974 You gotta point there LMAO

[@lisoak6504]

True. And she doesn't have an end goal, and rarely show up,so writers didn't have much time to ruin her

[@MCLoverTilltheend]

​@@lisoak6504 i have a feeling that she'll forgive stolas too soon and that will be the thing that'll ruin her as a character

[@lisoak6504]

@@MCLoverTilltheend Unfortunately that will probably happened

[@Cardinal_claw]

​@@MCLoverTilltheend I can see it now "Mom was abusing you?" "Im so sorry dad, i didn't know" And something something abou blitz being the bright point in his life and thats why it was worth it -forgetting that she was supposed to be the bright point- and forgiving him yada yada stolas cries (again) and Octavia joins the """f a Mbl Y"""

[@Marrianno]

I actually hate the very existence of Andreaphous, because he takes away Stella's role in the show. Stella should have been the one at the trial, confronting Stolas about his very much illegal actions to take away his wealth and powers But nooo, because of Viv's internalized misogyny, Stella got tirned into dumb sidekick of Andre

[@Marrianno]

Also, if someone thinks that Stella needed allies or someone to talk to. . .she had Strikers. Like, here's the alternative. How about Stella and Strikers continue conspiring to take down Stolas? Stella could promise Strikers some wealth and better life, while Strikers, since he's an established hypocrite, accepts this deal, but secretly plans on backstabbing Stella? We simply dont need characters like Vassago or Andre. Viv'z should not clutter plot with them

[@RafaelMartinez-mg5lg]

It isn't misogyny, is just her fetish.

[@whitedark7294]

​​@@Marriannobruh, my dearest fella, you literally just wrote a better plot in 5 MINUTES than Vivzie did IN YEARS. And I want my words to feel as a compliment quite badly, but things considered? That's just a simple and blatant statement, yet I still respect you💀👍

[@nou6676]

@whitedark7294 erm.. you, sir, WON the internet!! 😂 ahaha.. Someone give this guy a like!

[@whitedark7294]

@@nou6676 yep ^^

[@crystal-gem-quotev]

You know what Octavia said in Sinsmas... "Am I some f**king obligation? Is that... Is that why you didn't hesitate when given the chance to leave?" Yeah... She's right in so many ways. In Circus, Stolas literally tells Stella that the only reason he endured her emotional and mental abuse was for Octavia to have a normal life. He STAYED in that relationship for no reason. They could've gotten a divorce once Octavia was like five or something. And when Blitz was in danger, he left to save him without a second thought. Yeah, Stolas is a bad person and a bad parent, and that's coming from someone who still kinda likes him as a character. Octavia was in the right 100% to cut him out of her life.

[@Purplelover85]

Stolas: She hates me. Gee Stolas, and whose fault is that?

[@Toast-com]

I cheered when Octavia pulled away from Stolas and told him off, because she was spitting facts. I feel like everybody forgets what Blitz told Stolas after he dropped him off after Ozzie's. "Don't act like this is anything but you wanting me to fuck you, okay? You bring it up all the time."

[@Dharpik]

Golden Blitzø's words and Octavia nailing dis are literally two my favourite things about the show

[@tonykun8370]

Blitz character got destroyed fr

[@Dharpik]

@tonykun8370 thinking about his pushing nature, the what he's doing rn is kinda...uncharacteristic?

[@tiolloyd9555]

Old testament (season 1) Blitz is the best Blitz

[@redpanda6497]

​​@@tiolloyd9555I like Truth Seekers Blitzo the most. He still has a cheeky, asshole attitude when he's joking with the agents, but he also has good qualities and wants to change and treat his employees better without it turning into something overdramatic.

[@WhiteCresentKnight]

The amount of people demonizing Octavia is wild. Like cmon these people don’t use any critical thought at all.

[@underbakedbeanie]

@@WhiteCresentKnight it’s so disappointing bro. Justice for my girl Via

[@dinamoon9709]

Some of them act like she was supposed to know what exactly happened and at least should have been more calm to understand but buddy you wouldn’t be as calm as you wish her to be if you had the same situation How was she supposed to realise it all, she’s not a viewer like us she can’t theorise the possibilities of whose trauma is worse or whatever helluva fans are doing ._.

[@devilheartcandy]

Ngl I do be getting mad at characters for not knowing the full context sometimes BUT Octavia is completely justified especially since all of the context makes Stolas look even shittier and the lack of context feels like the show gaslighting us again because “Stolas can’t do anything wrong 🥺”

[@rox3725]

You can't have critical thinking and be a helluva boss fan at the same time.

[@devilheartcandy]

@ that’s literally the reason Sarcastic Chorus quit too 😭 (I watched his quitting vid, he genuinely couldn’t write a review for Sinsmas and realised the show wasn’t for him anymore because of where it was heading)

[@FrenchCaveman]

As a child of divorced parents and with a dad who did the same thing, Stolas did. I'd say Stolas is a terrible dad.

[@13vampires_Near_Y0u]

I know this sounds weird. But the fact that Stolas didn't think about Octiva until he lost everything made me cry, it felt like he only cared about Octiva because he didn't have anything else. Brought back such bad memories 😪

[@FrenchCaveman]

@13vampires_Near_Y0u yeah hes a terrible dad and nothing would convince me otherwise

[@gOat_GrandMa]

FR, If my father ditched me 3 times for someone he cheated with, he doesn't deserve my forgiveness or sympathy.

[@woodie3030]

Similar experience here but with my mom. There's no pain quite like being pushed aside by a parent in favor of their shitty partner, especially if they're pretty much all you've had your entire life and suddenly they're just *gone.* Because an individual who doesn't even care about them was more important than you. 💀

[@ManceAdventures]

Very true 🥳 my dad is actually going through court rn and he got dumped by his girlfriend and only THEN does he come look for me... I literally went through the exact same thing as Octavia and shes based as fuck.. Except they're probably gonna make her forgive Stolas and me, personally, I'd never forgive my dad. He dug his grave when he left me, its his responsibility to lay in it too. 😊

[@SammyRobinson62232]

One thing I started to notice is how Hellva Boss wants to have commentary when it comes to racism and classism. Yet portray the people that benefit from the status quo as “chill and funny guys, even very sympathetic and uwu poor rich baby who only wants love”. While the characters that are angry from the system aka Striker are seen as “too dangerous and unreasonable”. I hope this make sense as it’s just something I been nocting recently

[@underbakedbeanie]

@@SammyRobinson62232 Yeah, I see it too. I’m not all to pleased with that narrative, especially how it babies Stolas but it’s Viv’s show. She can do whatever tf she wants ig-

[@PartiallyCatto]

Not to be THAT person but I feel like Viv wants to coddle to rich, privileged assholes because... She herself is one? How are we meant to trust her to handle themes such as a classism when she herself is of higher class 💀?

[@Pechonk_A]

​@@PartiallyCattoCan you elaborate on this? Is she like a nepobaby or something?

[@PartiallyCatto]

@@Pechonk_A Despite the suspicious lack of information about her upbringing, it is rumored that yes, she DOES come from a wealthy family that has good connections. So yeah, she herself belongs to an upper class which explains why she handles themes such as classism so poorly...

[@Moghster6969]

Can you give specyfic examples?

[@Ifonlyformemories]

As a kid who's parents divorced on similar terms Octavia's worries and concerns are VALID!! she is not some evil kid she is a confused KID!!

[@Mangakamen]

Glad to see I'm not the only one who had similar issues with this season/finale.

[@underbakedbeanie]

@@Mangakamen AAA I DIDN’T THINK ID SEE YOU HERE HI-

[@Mangakamen]

@@underbakedbeanie It was a good video.

[@Moghster6969]

I... did not see that coming lmao

[@yago7289]

Yeah, those episodes makes me feel like something's missing

[@gOat_GrandMa]

Everyone to Stolas: Hate... let me tell you how much I've come to *hate* you since I began to live..

[@samiamtheman7379]

Most frustrating bit of false-advertising is how the thumbnail of 'Seeing Stars' would make you think it's an episode focusing on Loona and Octavia, while the actual episode has them interact for one scene while the rest mostly focuses on more Stolitz.

[@refinant6298]

To add to your Stolitz point, I'm gonna CopyPaste something I realized after reading someone else's comment: "Did... Did Blitz magically get over his issues in like two-three episodes and is now the best, most open and supportive boyfriend ever with no traumas, self destructive tendencies or aversions towards getting TOO intimate in relationships in fear of being hurt/hurting others? Because it kinda feels like that?", end quote.

[@refinant6298]

Like, this is genuinely so bizarre because all the time exploring his past traumas kinda gets shoved aside for the ship? He literally had a trauma conga line for almost three episodes in a row which, realistically (dumb thing to expect from an animated show, much less this one, I know), should have ended with him in a much, much worse mental state like it was initially shown in "Ghostfuckers". What should have happened before any of... *this* is that Blitz should have had become even more unwilling to open up further to or even retreating into his recently repaired relationship with Fizz which, and I know this will sound tiresome after all the drama the show is already filled with but hear me out, could have ended up with him trying to start something else with his old crush which could also add an actual moral conflict where he willingly becomes a homewrecker (compared to being forced into being one) which would actually showcase how bad he is doing mentally and emotionally, and the kind of harm he could cause to his loved one if he doesn't start taking the steps to heal. Instead of the gaslighting episodes where HE is blamed for pretty much everything Stolas caused and ENCOURAGED in their "relationship" while freeing the "sad uwu birdboi" from any responsibility from his actions and the pain he caused to Octavia without a care in the world because god forbid we hold the rich, patronizing and self-centered prince accountable, am right?! *Sigh* I miss when this show was simpler...

[@13vampires_Near_Y0u]

I think the main problem with the show is that I can't empathize with Stolas even when nearly all of the plot points in the show is about pitying Stolas. Idgaf that Blitzo was cold to Stolas, Stolas is rich, popular, well connected and has a family. He is a grown ass man not a child, he can talk things out with his daughter or even simply step up and take responsibility for some of his actions. But he doesn't, in comparison, Blitzo is much more likeable and relatable for me, he's a traumatized asshole but he knows it, he wants to be better but he's stuck in a cycle that he feels responsible for. Blitzo is a asshole who knows that he's an asshole, and additionally he is held responsible for being one yet Stolas isn't. When morally, he has done much worse things then Blitzo, every messed up thing Blitzo has done, Stolas has either A: done too or B: done much worse.

[@13vampires_Near_Y0u]

TW: Adding on to my first comment, I hate that Blitzo gets with Stolas, to me, personally, Blitzo isn't fit for a relationship, at least one that is romantic. Let him have friends before he sleeps with someone. Another thing, why isn't Stolas' treatment of Blitzo in the trailer acknowledged? Blitzo was being sexually harassed by him and it's played off? This is what I mean when I say that Stolas is worse, he's sexually violent with Blitzo, openly harasses him and makes unwanted sexual jokes about him and more, and Blitzo, a traumatized, poor man, who seemingly has no other choice BUT to sleep with Stolas to get the book, gets with him? Why? Give me one reason why Blitzo should get with someone who is abusing him. I've heard a lot of people try to justify Stolas' actions with a lot of excuses or under playing but Stolas IS abusing Blitzo, and in the trailer and first episode that's what it's shown as: Abuse and harassment. Yes it's played for laughs but its still treated that way. At no point in the trailer or first episode does Blitzo appreciate Stolas' comments, he is shown to be disgusted by him in fact. And here is where I might be overthinking or overacting: Tbh in the trailer and first episode, Stolas comes across as a predator, not like into children or anything of course not but still very creepy. Idk, it makes me uncomfortable that Blitzo gets with a guy that was shown to be abusing him😬 and also makes me wonder what changed over the episodes that suddenly Stolas is a rich owo sadboi and not the weirdo he was originally...

[@nyaw3461]

Omfg yes, how Blitz suddenly is like a "UwU gay boy suddenly in love because it's the ship and the main fucking focus of this whole series !" made me cringe so hard like bro I loved blitz because I could kinda relate and have empathy toward him but now how he's so supportive to Stolas because why not.. Like.. BRO GET YOUR SHIT TOGETHER BLITZ, his reactions in the most recents episodes are so unatural that's frustrating, I waited for him to do like Via did and give a reality check to Stolas but omfg ofc he just has to suddenly fall in love of Stolas.. And I don't know why ?? Like.. Why ? The only thing they did together to get so close is having seggs and going on a date but it wasn't even a real one ! And in all the episodes where they go out together alone or not they don't seem like to be close ?? Blitz is even annoyed at him like.. It really make no sense and it makes me so frustrated.. And the part where he don't want to kill the dude in sinsmas make me cringed so fucking hard because suddenly when it's gay cheating is accepted ? That's fucked up.. But hey I'm starting to get used to it I guess, I mean it's Viv's writting.. (and brandon I think ? And her team also but they still need to really improve their writting)

[@13vampires_Near_Y0u]

​@nyaw3461 thank you😭 Blitzo and Stolas shouldn't be together. At first I thought it was just me, but my friends who I watch the show with agree! I hate that it's all about them now because seeing them makes me uncomfortable. Blitzo getting with Stolas feels more like a obligation then Blitzo actually loving Stolas. When Blitzo kisses Stolas my first thought wasn't "How romantic!" It was "Is he just doing this because he feels bad for Stolas?"

[@YaBoiBrendo]

Not since Star Vs. have I seen a character do so many selfish or evil things and still be framed as the hero.

[@snakesareamazing]

And that was also a cartoon that got completely ruined by focusing too much on shipping

[@featherlight2652]

Stolas literally called Octavia an obligation in his big fight with Stella. So she’s absolutely right in her reasoning, because he said so himself. She may not have been there for the fight, but she still reached that conclusion. And it just ticks me off because she’s right!!!!!

[@AlexMourning5635]

It kinda bugs me that Andrealphus gets Stolas' power. When you divorce or are sent to jail (whichever fits for Stolas having his power stolen), it's not your brother-in-law that gets your assets, it's your spouse. I don't really care that it's because Andy is there and suggests it, that's not how... anything works? If someone isn't of age to obtain property or funds from a guardian, since the power is going to Octavia later, it goes to the other child's guardian, which is still Stella! When Stolas was divorcing Stella, Andy is the one who suggests Stolas should give something to Stella for "cheating on the poor thing". And somehow Stella is ok with her brother taking Stolas' power over her? That makes her even less of a character than she was previously. >.

[@TamelaRedfin]

Yup, can't have the woman be competent. Though a better writer may play into this and have Stella be upset her brother tricked her maybe.

[@alllittlethingzz]

Yea it would have made more sense if Stella got Stolas’s powers for the next 100 years instead of her brother.

[@WeebGuru6]

Master mind only works if the pilot is canon where stiles sent them on jobs from time to time

[@underbakedbeanie]

@@WeebGuru6 Exactly!!! But nope. Didn’t go that route. Poor writing decisions all around

[@WeebGuru6]

@ all of this is hollow i saw the 2nd trailer and im like this is gonna flop and fans finna be disappointed

[@lisoak6504]

It would be funny of Stolas send Imps to convince people global warming isn't real

[@Moghster6969]

​@@underbakedbeaniewhy exacly?

[@PlanetZoidstar]

6:52 - "Viv cannot write romance." I'd argue Viv cannot write, full stop. She knows what she wants to see play out, but because she has zero impulse control of creativity with writing she'll just pull whatever plot contrivances she has to in order to get the result she wants. Even if it makes zero sense or requires certain characters to be idiots to happen. Viv doesn't care so long as she gets the outcome she wants.

[@Burntwater55]

It's like taping the wrong puzzle pieces together, and expecting a great grand big picture..when it's a jumbled mess of what the fuck

[@avivastudios2311]

Like Striker lassooing Blizto and Fizt through the window they just so happen to be standing outside of.

[@johnvandiver5634]

Its 3 birthday parties in one building

[@shadowtorchx2456]

Octavia deserves better and indeed, Millie's character turning to a baby plot..man. I really feel bad for Octavia tbh. Rewatching the Stolas and Octavia episodes and seeing others talk about Stolas being a bad father then rewatching the episodes just hurts to see. 15:22 I remember the pilot for being the show as an action-comedy (which it still has) but it became the stolas and blitz telanovela but will continue to watch this train for the world building and lore. Hope to see more episode reviews(not just from helluvaboss or hazbin) from this channel and congrats on almost 100 subs! (cute Octavia sketches btw)

[@Dr.Declan]

He pissed me off so much, that I couldn't handle seeing his real-life counterpart in demonology since I've grown sick of her ruining every Goetia, Demon, and Angel like it's nothing. I even can’t look at him the same anymore after I SAW DEPRAVED SHIT ABOUT STOLAS AND HIS DAUGHTER. Then ruin another opportunity to show one of the 7 Archangels in HB and even if she did she’d probably make them gay and have daddy issues. Or make them twinky for no reason whatsoever. To add insult to injury SOMEONE FROM OUTSIDE THE SHOW ALREADY DID THIS AND I'm STILL NOT FINE WITH THE FACT THEY ARE ALL TWINKS. Every time Vizi TRIES to include angels she just does nothing but instead includes the Cherubs. I know this isn't related to the video but it’s just my opinion on how I now feel about Vivi. And that the fans keep saying the episodes that are released on KZbin are good. When they are not all good.

[@Fishyfish300]

Dont let this horribly inaccurate interpretation ruin your view on Stolas, my boi is too good for that 😔 I wouldnt have a problem with this character if they stuck with him being an antagonist and literally chose nearly ANYONE ELSE other than Stolas. (Sitri being the first example that comes to mind that wouldve been a better pick) Idk why they even decided to choose Stolas of all characters in the first place, if im to guess maybe they did super basic level research and read the first thing google popped up that just said he likes stars and constellations or whatever and the writers where probably like "oh my gawd hes just like me fr I love that stuff too". (I seriously doubt any one of the writers for this show even know about the lesser keys of Solomon) I hope in the future we can see an actual good show centered around demons... This shows interpretation of demonology is like disneys interpretation of greek gods in Hercules, but even then thats a broad comparison. At least Hercules is watchable and the characters are likable.

[@A-germanguy]

Wait who did that?

[@Dr.Declan]

@@A-germanguy You don't want to know let’s just say that it was very incestuous..

[@FavorOgunjimi]

I completely understand your frustrations. Those were my frustrations too. I hate Stolas with everything in me and when I tell my friends, they can’t seem to understand why. If the writers have kept him an antagonist, I wouldn’t hate him. It’s cause they and everyone in the freaking show coddle him all over the place and pile on Blitz. The show portrays him as some sad bird even tho they BOTH have done wrong both to each other and other people.

[@underbakedbeanie]

@@FavorOgunjimi Stolas used to be my favorite character…before my eyes saw through the hype. I agree that him staying a villain/antagonist would’ve made things a millions times more interesting AND it would’ve made more sense

[@khaliyahjefferson832]

@@underbakedbeanie honestly he was never my favorite to begin with like I remember watching the pilot I was 16 and I'm thinking I'm probably gonna hate one of the characters and I was right. My dad had the same reaction as everyone when Stolas came on and he asked if he was gay which I said apparently so Dad.

[@manuproulx2764]

Such a missed opportunity to give an "enemies to lovers" type of situation! I'm so disappointed.

[@woodie3030]

Fr, there'd be no issue with Stolas if he was written in a way that doesn't baby him and actually fully holds him accountable for his actions, or at least has him address his own hypocrisy at least ONCE.

[@AcordHachi]

I'm no longer interested in this series. I have several problems with Helluva Boss, some of which are: 1. The series is too focused on Stolas. It's still hard for me to believe that Stolas, a character who was initially conceived as a secondary character (and a somewhat antagonistic one, at that) has become one of the main protagonists, with even more development and episodes centered around him than main characters like Millie or Loona. 2. Blitz's newfound "love" for Stolas feels... off and artificial. Are you seriously telling me that Blitz, a person traumatized by multiple tragic events, with a history of unstable relationships, and great difficulty in maintaining relationships and showing affection, is going to end up falling in love with... a privileged man who pressured Blitz into a relationship based on "favors for favors" and where Blitz had no choice but to accept using his body sexually to keep his business afloat, his only source of income and survival? Seriously, are you telling me that someone like Stolas awakened the "tender" and "romantic" side in Blitz? After so many disrespectful and abusive incidents? It makes no sense. The relationship between Blitz and Stolas was conceived as a sexual arrangement, and Blitz was subjected to multiple humiliations and mistreatments by Stolas. It makes no sense that someone with so many attachment issues and traumas like Blitz would end up so in love with Stolas... although, now that I think about it, it does make sense in the context of trauma bonding or Stockholm syndrome. Yikes. 3. Octavia needed so much more development! Viv forgot about Via's existence until now. Her song is beautiful, but it lacks all the emotional impact it could have had because Via has no development. Her character needed many more appearances in other episodes to further explore her relationship with Stolas and Stella. But I guess when you're too focused on Stolitz, there's no time left to develop the other characters. What a waste. 4. Does the series... justify infidelity? Don't get me wrong, the scene with the gay family was sweet, but... um... one of them is still a cheater. Lmao. Even Blitz says "infidelity isn't a big deal these days". Yes, it is. Even if your relationship is trash, ask for a divorce and then do what you want. Infidelity is never justified. IMP has never had problems killing children, families, or whoever for money. Now they're passing on a job... because Blitz thinks about his life with Stolas? What is this series? What happened to Blitz? I don't recognize these characters. They've all become so soft. Too soft. It's embarrassing. 5. Millie's pregnancy wasn't shocking or unexpected, but it was absolutely unnecessary. I don't need to clarify that I'm totally worried about how Viv is going to handle this topic, and I don't trust that they'll do it well. It's a very sensitive topic that affects many people in different ways, and I don't think a series like Helluva Boss is the right place to explore it, because I don't trust the writing team to do a good job. I don't understand what the need was for Millie to be pregnant. This situation only raises questions: you're married to a good man, you're very much in love, we can assume you have regular sex... so Millie and Moxxie weren't using protection? Honestly, I don't get Millie's shock or surprise, lol. Yes, Millie, if you have unprotected sex regularly with your husband... you'll probably get pregnant... Lmao. Which leads me to another question, if Millie doesn't want to have a baby because she's poor and they barely have enough money to get by... um... why weren't they using protection? I don't know. Millie's surprise doesn't make sense to me. Yes, Millie, if you have unprotected sex, you'll get pregnant. It's not rocket science. It's logic. 6- Stolas, you got what you f*cking deserved. I HATE HATE HAAATE how the shows tries to manipulate the audience into feeling bad for Stolas CONSTANTLY. No. You cannot make me feel bad for this asshole. All of this is his own fault. He told Via "I would never leave you!" And "you're the only good thing in my life!" But the MOMENT you decided to make a sexual arrangement with Blitz you KNEW that would have awful consequences and you decided that banging Blitz was so much worth the risk. The moment Stolas came up with the deal, he gave up on Via. He saw his own desires and lust as way more important than his relationship with his own daughter. In Loo loo land he is focused on Blitz all the time up until the end. In Seeing Stars he's more concerned about arguing with Stella than hanging out with Via...and even when she gets lost, he just spends he entire time...watching Blitz perform. Loona finds Via. Not Stolas. Also, now that I think about it, Stolas "has his ways" to find Blitz in the human realm without his grimoire...but he can't find his own daughter...? When Stolas is depressed, we see him watching telenovelas thinking about Blitz, we NEVER see him spending quality time with Via. When Blitz and Stolas fight in the Full Moon, insead of, I don't know, spending time with Via, maybe teaching her some spells, or something, Stolas much rather go to a party dedicated to Blitz and getting involved with another dude. Nice, Stolas. Octavia is 100% valid for feeling like Stolas loves Blitz more than he loves her because he literally does. That's literally what the show has demonstrated over and over again. And I absolutely HATE how he is portrayed as a victim, crying, sobbing and being consoled by the entire main cast. Stolas, after being an absolute jerk to Blitz, after neglecting his daughter NEEDED to be held accountable. This aint it. Portraying him as a tragic victim is not holding him accountable for all the sh1t he has done. He. Is. Not. A. Good. Person. and I'm tired of the writers trying to manipulate me into feeling sorry for him. 7-Helluva Boss now feels like a soap opera. The series went from being a dark comedy focused on action to a series full of unnecessary drama and poorly developed relationships, romances that feel more like toxic codependent relationships, and everything revolves around shipping. The series feels, at least to me, like "Stolitz, with some cool scenes in between, and some good songs sometimes". For a series that takes place in Hell itself, the relationships that Viv puts on a pedestal... are quite socially accepted and "classic" relationships, Millie and Moxxie are married, and the humor in their relationship was that it was something seen as so uncommon in Hell that it was repulsive, well, now it turns out that even the sin of Lust has an adorable, sweet, and monogamous relationship with Fizz. What a coincidence, you might think that Ozzie, being literally the embodiment of Lust, could be polygamous and have multiple lovers, but no, again, a monogamous, sweet, and classic relationship, ignoring the fact that they're two men. And then there's Stolas and Blitz, now also in love, in an adorable, sweet way, and we can assume it'll be a monogamous and classic relationship too. I'm monogamous myself, and even I find it strange that, as residents of Hell, all the main couples have quite "conservative" relationships. The series has turned into a soap opera that takes place in Hell, and it has all the worst attributes of soap operas too: interesting characters are left aside in favor of the "main couple", toxic and harmful relationships are put on a pedestal because "it's so romantic!" and the series is filled with monotony and contradictions. This is what Helluva Boss has become. I'm not interested in Stolitz. I don't care. There are many more interesting things to explore. Stolas has demonic legions? Cool, will we ever see them? How do they work? Andrealphus is an Infernal Marquis, great! Can we explore the differences between the princes, dukes, and marquises of Hell? Wasn't Helluva Boss supposed to serve as supporting material to contextualize the universe of Hazbin Hotel? It seems that's no longer the case. The series is a complete disappointment, and I'm no longer interested in it at all. The show is just a boring mess now. What a damn shame.

[@charlie8829]

Holy shit I wrote entire essays shorter then this but u basically described all my issues with the show

[@kylezdeath]

hopefully millie will just get an abortion in season 3 and we can move on like the whole preggers arc didnt happen. but knowing how vivzie loves to ruin and push aside her woman characters, millie will probably already be 6 months pregnant by season 3 ep1. hell, theyll probably give her pregnancy complications just to nerf her even more.

[@khaliyahjefferson832]

Damn bro you didn't need to write all that but talk your talk

[@bluespectrum1348]

Bro literally copy pasted my comment lol 😭

[@AcordHachi]

@@bluespectrum1348 so I actually wrote myself an essay inspired by videos, comments and questions I recieved over a few months. But get this, the final product is too big for a youtube comment (apparently there is a limit XD ), so I had to split it. This part is indeed copy pasted because it was perfect enough with the redt I already wrote. I even got complaints for the protection argument because of right now it's just a headcanon. XD

[@SerenitySun-mp3cw]

Also when you bring your ACTUAL FLING to an outing with your DAUGHTER before(?) you’re actually divorced it’s kind of a bad impression. And blitz is simply there to flirt with even when he won’t say so. He doesn’t say the actual reason. You could see him flirting with Blitz CONSTANTLY. How could a 16 YEAR OLD GIRL not think her dad doesn’t care enough? Like it isn’t even just with her dad. She turns into a third wheel on something that was supposed to be for her and him. I think she was also barely introduced to him? How could she not think “he doesn’t actually care” Like I’m pretty sure even an adult would feel unwanted in that situation.

[@samiamtheman7379]

And thing is that both 'Loo Loo Land' and 'Seeing Stars' imply Octavia and Blitzo are on a similar wavelength with their shared hatred of robo-Fizz and their similar freakouts in the latter episode, but since Viv hates writing Octavia, they don't interact at all.

[@staticmations4764]

Im going to say this: What vivzie is doing with her writing is actually dangerous. She is portraying an LGBTQ+, toxic, and dangerous relationship as a "cute" and "quirky" relationship. That also includes him neglecting his daughter, making his GROWN ASS out to be a childish victim. While yes, this is for mature audiences, young adults will catch onto this and believe its normal and okay because their "Hero" said so. I have never been in a relationship, but I even know that this is a dangerous relationship. I can also say the same with octavia, how the show had the fucking balls to portray her as in the wrong for not listening to her father, who talkrd sexually around her, abandoned her, etc. As in the wrong for not hearing him out. As someone who has parental problems, it fucking disgusts me. It disgusts me that viv is portraying a child as a villain. It disgusts me how viv is constantly babying this grown ass man because he's her favorite, and it all disgusts me. Viv is one of the most shittiesy writers in media and, overall, should have never gotten a platform in the first place. Just because you dress shit with a bow, doesnt make it good.

[@T_E_G]

THANK YOU!! As much as people want to defend her for her show being hers and "she can do whatever she wants with it" is genuinely alarming. Like yes she's not hurting anyone and it IS her show, but you can't just do whatever you want in life 😭 people are allowed to criticize what she puts out and educate her way of writing. It's obvious she's never going to grow out of this and improve, and I hate that type of logic. Like the issues and representation in this show aren't taken as seriously as they should be and feel like it's for the sake of drama or fan service. Seeing how the mlm relationships are made out to be :(( Like why is this considered representation??

[@VolXiz0]

Exactly! Romanticizing toxic relationships isn’t cool.

[@3nq838]

well said, literally had to argue with a stolas defender who defended stolas’s catcalling and ignoring of blitz’s boundaries (moreso in the first season), to which they argued with me and claimed it was normal and okay since stolas clearly can’t pick up on social cues and that blitz should be accommodating HIM. the debate completely fried my brain and it’s scary that people actually think this way, (even worse they admitted they were just like stolas and regularly ignored their partners saying no??) and i’m sure i wouldn’t have had to explain such a thing if vivziepop wasn’t romanticizing such toxic behaviors.

[@vermillion_labotomy]

honestly, the scene that set me off was that one scene where blitz refused to kill the cheating person just because he was gay, idk It just makes me kinda uncomfortable that when a person cheats on someone of the opposite gender it’s wrong but when it’s someone as the same gender as you then it’s ok? Idk that’s just what it felt like (btw I am part of the LGBTQ+ community, so yeah)

[@odette6761]

​@@3nq838 "blitz should be accomodating him" is crazy💀💀 what is wrong with stolas defenders omfg, are they okay mentally

[@ylcnetwork47428]

I've expressed my dislike with these episodes as well, especially how StolASS is as a character. He just pisses me off, and people called me too harsh. I was just honest about all his awful behavior. Justice for Octavia, she deserves better.

[@ServantOfTheMoonGods]

Not to mention how boring unexplored and samey the world is. "Its hell" but people are still in monogamous relationships. "Its hell" but killing too many demons results in being judged (ep5 millie's mom). "Its hell" but demons get buthurt when some random imp cheats on them to the point they host a party dedicated to that every year. What the fuck? Its LAME. The difference between hell and earth in this verse is aesthetic and hell is filled with furries. Thats basically much it. (No hell religion that we see focused on the 7 deadly sins. Missed opportunity here guys.)

[@underbakedbeanie]

@@ServantOfTheMoonGods like I said, wonky ah world building 😔

[@shadowtorchx2456]

@@underbakedbeanie indeed...

[@sandia_jugarsuelo]

Fr, Hell is purely decoration here. In Hazbin, sure, it makes sense because it being Hell is THE WHOLE POINT. But here? Even Blitz himself is disappointed in Apology Tour because they're heartbroken despite the fact THEY'RE IN HELL. Like, man. C'mon.

[@ServantOfTheMoonGods]

@@sandia_jugarsuelo fr

[@Moghster6969]

Nope. The diffrence is that hellborns (imps, hellhounds ect) aren't like sinners who most likely are absolute assholes who's persobalities are most likely resolving around sins they've commited, but rather an naturalborn with their own culture status ect...

[@anonymousperidot7446]

THANK YOU! I’ve had a huge problem with Mastermind as a whole. It just felt rushed and overall empty. None of the outcomes felt earned. Let’s be honest, Andreaphous literally just bullsh!ted his way into winning

[@underbakedbeanie]

@@anonymousperidot7446 LITERALLY. Andrealphus is just handed his victory on a silver platter. And not even in an entertaining or sensible way

[@Moghster6969]

Can you elaborate?

[@anonymousperidot7446]

@Moghster6969 Well for one thing, it really should’ve been Stolas’ trail. Where he has to face the fact that he was the one in complete control over in the relationship. IMP should’ve been called to testify against him. Andreaphous/ Stella could’ve try to manipulate them into siding with them. Then there will be real stakes and emotions instead of it just feeling like a rollercoaster to get to Stolas’ punishment. Second, multiple characters just feel out of character. Stolas is shown to be intelligent and levelheaded to hold himself in court (as seen in Oops)so when he decides to sing that he’s the mastermind I was just thinking “What the hell are you doing?!” He could’ve just admit that Stella was the one who tried to kill him, he could’ve told the court how IMP risked their lives to protect him multiple times. Hell! As soon as Striker was on screen Asmodeus should’ve shut that down! He has a recording of Striker holding Fizz ransom with Crimson, so he should’ve said something like “Hey, we shouldn’t trust his words. He kidnapped my boyfriend” could’ve mentioned how Striker also held Blitz captive, thus making it harder for Striker to be proven trustworthy

[@Cardinal_claw]

​@@anonymousperidot7446 Also, Andrealphos shouldn't exist. Stella is literally right there and has much more motivation. Viv just can't kill her darlings

[@tacoedibles]

@@Cardinal_clawwhich is SO hypocritical cause she literally said on twitter that she wasn’t scared to kill off her characters if necessary

[@jadamiller7485]

At this point with the male focus stuff, I think Viv would be better off saying that her show has some internalized stuff that if she was able to go back, she'd rewrite, but she has to deal with the writing she already has and try to work with it. She'd be better off admitting that.

[@lunamcboss6504]

something that has consistently disappointed me about Viv's writing is that she writes women terribly in favor of her male characters despite being a queer woman herself. i remember back when she was first receiving criticism for the way she writes Millie and Loona she made a tweet saying that Helluva Boss was focused on male leads, while Hazbin was focused on its female leads. well, ive seen Hazbin as well, and while yes, Vaggie and Charlie are a good relationship and well written by themselves (Vaggie less so than Charlie), they still share a lot of time and attention with the male characters like Angel, Husker, and Alastor, arguably the most popular characters by far. and while not bad on its own, it leaves me with the impression that Viv is incapable of writing a show without male characters for her to fixate on. Hazbin doesnt read to me as a show with a female lead, it reads across to me as a show that is slightly less male focused than her other show.

[@ItsAK9]

I don't understand how people can't see that Stolas NOT BEING A FATHER and giving his whole ass LIFE to save someone he ain't even that connected to WHILE letting his daughter see that and be all alone is a good character. And on top of that have the GALL to blame Octavia... the kid... The writers are lowkey tryna brainwash people into not paying attention to the past and only looking at the future.

[@TamelaRedfin]

Yeah Stolas sometimes reminds me of my mother. While highly different circumstances admittedly, after my dad passed, she acted like Stolas. They both run off with some guy, abandon their child and yet WE are supposed to accommodate their needs. Bonus points I was around Via's age. Maybe Via will go my route and be NC with him.

[@goldensunshebaplays]

The fact of the matter is that Stolitz feels very unearned and rushed with so many plot holes that did not get filled. There is a lot i can forgive but there's far too much inconsistency. I agree Helluvaboss needs the criticism. I adore the world and the characters a lot but the story is just...I dunno how to put it. I hope the best for Octavia and really hope we are not gonna go the route of forcing her into a marriage she doesn't want to make her understand her father's struggle.

[@FriskKimura]

Oh no, that would be the worst. With how Vivziepop writes, I wouldn’t be surprised if one of the next major arcs is about Stolas and Blitz trying to rescue Octavia from an arranged marriage, and it ends with Octavia forgiving Stolas for all the horrible things he’s done to her because “now she understands what his marriage was like”

[@TamelaRedfin]

No! Don't give her ideas. And I bet Viv would take the route of "It's still worse for him because it happened longer."

[@stardust4273]

I think the root issue is that the narrative is so clearly biased in favor of Stolitz, so the story does everything it can to excuse them. Stolas cheated on his wife? It’s ok because she’s actually an abusive asshole. Stolas neglecting Octavia? It’s ok because he’s trying his best to be a good dad. Viv seems unwilling to explore the real consequences of Stolas’ actions, so the narrative twists and turns to give the simplest explanation.

[@jakubtrapp3509]

i personally headcanon that belphegor would stand with blitz bcs she is a women of science she would relie some things dont add up BUT THE TRAIL TOOK PLACE AFTER SH SPEND THE WHOLE DAY (aka in her eyes 8 hours) to create a new medice so she just kept fainting and didnt hear shit ( she is a scientist at best and a doctor at worse both of these profesions would make her smart enough to realise shit doesnt add up the only reason why she didnt say anything was bcs she could barelly function)

[@MAWZ_GOD]

6:22 oh my fucking god THANK YOU SOMEONE ELSE SAID IT! The pacing of stolas and blitz "breaking up" (they were never a couple in the first place so the break up per say was inevitable because they both used each other and are extremely toxic) and the suddenly blitz falling in love does make any since like were we supposed to forget stolas being a hypocrite in apology tour and acting like he's the only victim because blitz is a victim too. They both treated each other like shit so i do not understand in the last two episodes how blitz has fallen for stolas, the "grand gesture" of stolas protecting blitz in the trial doesn't make sense logically for the crimes and weren't the both you not wanting to be around each other?? Didn't Stolas get wasted and kiss a guy that he treats him better than Blitz and then Verosika telling him give him time and space if you truly care about him?? BUT ALL OF SUDDEN NONE OF THE TENSION MATTERS AND THEY'RE TOGETHER IN THE FINALE?! IT WAS 5 EPISODES BETWEEN FULL MOON AND SINSMAS, THEY NEEDED TO BE APART FOR LONGER THIS ISN'T AN ARC AND IM TIRED OF PEOPLE WHO SAY IT IS. You honestly could still have blitz realizing he loves stolas but then both of them realizing their faults and becoming better people before even considering the idea of a relationship and i wish Viv did this, the pacing and writing was horrible. As much as i am a fan of this show, i have a bad feeling about season 3 considering how rough season 2's writing was. It's disappointing that this was the finale in my opinion.

[@thefabuloustrash05]

The fact Andrealphus KNEW Stolas was breaking the law by allowing an imp to use the book and yet he didn’t use that as the reason to do a trial shows how stupid his plan was. Why didn’t Andre just put Stolas on trial instead and have Blitz and I.M.P be witnesses/accomplice?? That way Stolas is outed for slacking on his responsibilities as a Goetia and doing something that apparently is VERY ILLEGAL (according to Andre) so that way Stolas still gets banished and Andrealphus takes his fortune or whatever. He added way too many steps onto something that could’ve been way more simple.

[@underbakedbeanie]

@@thefabuloustrash05 Exactlyyyyyy. I don’t get the thought process

[@demonic_noodles88]

I had genuinely forgotten that Millie was pregnant because of how little attention was given to it

[@blackkitty369]

I never understood why the fans are mad at the 17 year old and not the 30 year old grown man and his bad choices!

[@avivastudios2311]

12:24 Beautifully said. It feels wrong because it is. They should have had at least two episodes by now exploring who Millie is and starting an arc for her. But now before we can fully understand who she is - all we learned that could have been an arc is that she has some insecurity about feeling like a useless imp that's only good for killing - she's just gonna be "the mom". They're soo gonna make Stolas look after the baby a few times to show how perfect and sweet he is. They're gonna use Millie's baby to make Stolas look good. 🤦‍♀️

[@AcordHachi]

HB was not advetised as a romance so that's why the audience feels justifiable betrayed. Only in episode 7 we actually start to get romance plot. Viv once twetted something in the lines of: "what's wrong if a show becomes a fanfic of itself?". We got the answear: braindead plot animated well. I expected it to be bad, I did not expect “cheating is okay if it’s gay and it’s bad when a woman does it”. Making Blitz and Stolas childhood friends and Blitz be Stolas’ first love really fucked up the dynamic that had been set up in season 1 I liked Stolas better as a character when he was a problematic person, a flawed character who had a bad power dynamic in his relationship with Blitz. He was more interesting and had more potential in the story then. Like, if you want to make Blitz and Stolas have that childhood connection, make it less special for child Stolas, and make it that Blitz remembers that, but Stolas doesn’t (bc the way he was written in the beginning of the show suggested that he was privileged and spoiled enough that he wouldn’t have thought much of a lower class demon brought in to entertain him) Make hell have more explicitly problematic systems of oppression, rather than just giving lip service to it, like when Satan says imps were made to be obedient. Show us the ways imps are treated poorly by higher class demons instead of just hand-waving in the direction of it. Like maybe circus imps are regularly brought in to entertain royal children as jesters, and that’s how Blitz was familiar with the layout of the palace. Maybe Stolas- in keeping with his early series characterization- after discovering Blitz sneaking around the palace as an adult, hits on him and Blitz plays into it to get closer to the book. Make it so that Stolas’ behavior in the pilot and the first episode of the show make sense in context with Blitz and Stolas’ first sexual encounter. Having it be this sentimental “the one who wants me is my first friend” doesn’t follow, even with the joke that Stolas thinks Blitz wants to dirty talk and commits way too hard to that, and thats why he acts the way he does in the pilot and first episode. Vivzie seems to be scared of making her characters actually flawed. Like she wrote Stolas the way she did in the pilot for the dark humor of it and also bc Stolas was initially gonna be an antagonist, but then she wanted to ship him and Blitz, so somewhere along the way she just decided that they can’t have this problematic beginning to their relationship, with the power imbalance, so it has to be something more sensitive and sentimental. Speaking of obvious retcons and inconsistencies, there is something that one one knows, even Viv hreself: how much does she take from her source materials? To HH its the Bible ant to HB its The lessor key of Solomon. So all the ancient demons Viv adapts look like were born at least in the last 200 years (Bee's lava lamp body and hair, do I need to explain more?). So only Stolas, his brother in law and the parrot guy are the only one that got age nerfed, but they keep their immortality? Also, NONE of them are british or latinic or whatever culture she might pull out of her back. What is this arbitrary fanfic logic like the anime girl in the third short? Let's say hypotetically that the trial is rigged for Blitz, but not for Stolas. He just confessed that he is the guilty one, but for what? What crime? The things Blitz was accused of (stealing and attempted assasination) do NOT transfer at all to Stolas. The next logical question was also the most simple viewers fail to articulate: what was Stolas confessing for? His confession even contradicts Striker's confession so no matter how you slice it this was the worst written fictional trial ever and it was not intentional. No one had a functioning brain than maybe Bee and the parrot guy, not even Ozzie who knew and could vouch for the use of the book before but not anymore. They should have questioned him why did he do it to be the mastermind (of what? that's for organised crime) and then they should have followed the assasination plotline with Stolas in court to eighter fully clear Striker OR kill him alongside who truly hired him...Stolas knew it was Stella. I'm not one who treats the Bechdel Test seriously, but Helluva Boss fails it spectacularly. Also wow, how ironic that the most underdeveloped female character that Vivziepop insists has a lot of hidden depth is given a pregnancy plot. How much do you want to bet she’s going to be completely sidelined in the next season. ALSO, sorry yall but I don’t think Stolas is actually going to apologize for being a bad father to Octavia. Did we forget what happened when Ozzie called out Stolas in “Ozzie’s” and Blitzo chewed out Stolas in “Full Moon”, the former didn’t even keep his energy and Blitzo was so thoroughly punished that it felt like he was being abused into falling for Stolas. In fact that’s not even the first time she defensively said there’s nothing wrong with her writing feeling like fanfiction. She even called it homophobic when people used fanfiction as deragatory because some queer people like it…That’s like saying it’s homophobic to shit on Big Mouth because it has some queer fans. This is a video from Flazefire about HB and he also has one of HH, they are very informative, I recommend watching them. kzbin.info/www/bejne/baXImad-Yteab5Y&si=GcmeFlppkDFsIJSJ The tweets are at 26:00 mark and they go for a minute or so. One of the dates is december 1st 2024. Well we all have to admit. Viv beat the record for "how to avoid to tell what are the fellings of a mother about her own kid". Right now she holds the record of 2 seasons or 20 cursed episodes. I observed that while in Avengers there was only one way to end well, in every Vivziepop show there is only one way to end wrong and the writers bend over backwards to achive it. Example s2 e9 the fallout would have been avoided if eighter one of them did some gesture different and s2 e11 where no one in the court has a brain. In other shower thoughts, with season 2 ending we can finally say that Unhappy campers WAS THE MILLIE EPISODE ALL ALONG, yes, not Ghost fu- which btw was written by Brandon. Let that sink in...how much Viv cares about Millie. It just struck me: ep 2, 5 and 6 are pointless, ep 4 ruined Striker, ep 11 is the worst written trial in fiction (THE TRIAL FOR STOLAS, NOT BLITZ, THEY CAN'T BE FOR THE SAME CRIMES!!!) and ep 12 excuses Stolas further. I won't defend these remarks, however I left out the true worst episode of the entire show, the one every new watcher should skip because the writting is so bad that retcons the entire show before and even worse, after it. This episode should have his own medal alongside other boring episodes because it should not exist. Ladies and gentlemen, the worst episode of the entire show, because it spoils everithing else without ever being referenced once after its air, is...THE CIRCUS...

[@Ghostee-k9x]

Actually helluva boss was supposed to be about relationships and hazbin is about redemption people just got confused because blitz owns a bloody business that kills people which -IS- badass but the plots of these shows were supposed to be this way I can understand how you don’t agree with all the drama but if you hate the show you hate it you can’t say vivziepop wrote the script badly because this is her show -NOT YOURS- she gets to be in charge of how the story goes and a lot of people don’t really get that ofc you can have your problems with it but like still -I’m not trying to be rude I’m just stating a fact :) hope you understand and you can still have your opinions

[@AcordHachi]

@Ghostee-k9x you don't need to be an art critic to elaborate on some objective points that show this is bad writing. It doesn't matter what someone thinks the show was supposed to be (heck, let's even say that yes, it was based on relationships), it only matters how it was advertised and we were indeed sold something more unique when it comes to an animated show than we recieved, which is the bad halves of Bojack and South park put together. Anyone would get a better experience watching those than HB. Even worse is the dissapointment when it was clear that the show has a good episode around the main IMP plot when someone else writes it, Brandon.

[@Ghostee-k9x]

@ again I said you can still hate the writing which was indicated in a peaceful response I understand your trying to fight back with defense but you must admit that all shows that are indie get some kind of hate I am not here to criticize your opinion I’m here to state a fact in how the show was meant to be based on hate the writing but understand this is not your show

[@Ghostee-k9x]

@ also I’m not being a art critic for stating a fact ._. I clearly put something that was supposed to make peace and not some kind of stupid “I HATE YOU HATERS” response it was clear that I said you can still have your opinions again I was just correcting some facts :)

[@AcordHachi]

@@Ghostee-k9x dude, when I sayed "you don't have to be an art critic" usually means someone doesn't need to be one to make sence and have a valid perspective XD. I totaly get it, probably my favourite finished indie show is murder drones and boy it needed another 30 minutes somewhere to feel not rushed.

[@KARACHIKUTANAE]

I honestly love Octavia the moment she came out so I was excited for any episodes she was featured Turned out, she was just an object for Stolas to be portrayed as "he is actually a good person!" and it made me dropped the whole HB

[@sashawolfson3602]

I hated how Vivi treated Stolas like he was the "UwU sad boy" and tried to make him the victim when in reality, this whole conflict was his fault because he was too selfish. Sure, Blitz is a bad person, but he deserves a better partner than him. Via deserves better than him, too, because they were wronged by the same Owl. I'm surprised he's not the actual villain of the story. And Millie, Jesus Christ... She's right from getting angry when there's been proof that she wasn't getting paid, so why the hell do they think it's a good idea to make her pregnant?! instead of giving her an actual good character arc. I hate Stolas with a burning passion, and I will continue hating on him.

[@Moghster6969]

I don't get your second point. This whole outrage was exacly what she was thinking, but thank's to hormons she expressed that in overexaduratwd way, insulting her husband for no reason at all. It's not like pregnancy made some thoughts in her, but rather influenced the way she expressed it

[@sashawolfson3602]

@Moghster6969 I get what you're saying but in my opinion, giving a character a pregnancy arc without leading up to it is just poor writing. Millie didn't have an actual character arc that leads up to that point so it made no sense.

[@Moghster6969]

​@@sashawolfson3602 didn't have character with lead up to pregnancy? Im sorry but do you mean that she was suppost to get character leading to her being pregnant or I got it wrong😅?

[@sashawolfson3602]

@Moghster6969 It seems like you're not understanding at all. 😒

[@Moghster6969]

​@@sashawolfson3602shall you explain then?

[@TheBloodsWitness]

These 2 episodes need a whole rewrite VivZiePop sucks at writing

[@theloneeaglegaming5565]

What’s weird is that she herself said that she not good at writing

[@sandia_jugarsuelo]

The thing is that Viv CAN WRITE WELL. Both Ozzie's and Mammon's episode were written by her, and they're some of the best episodes of the show. But she just chooses to, NOT write well, for some reason...?

[@Moghster6969]

Why?

[@redpanda6497]

​​​Mammon's dialogue suffered from the swearing and on the nose writing, but yes, I like those episodes and there were times where she followed the writing rules. I would add Truth seekers to the list. That episode is full of visual symbolisms, well made emotional moments, more realistic dialogue and subtext. It's true for Ozzie's, too. What happened?

[@Chuckyboi-hg2le]

Stolas is the type of person to save his crush from a burning building but leave his daughter in the building, like I understand you were trying to save blitzo from being executed, but he just sacrifices himself! Without explaining or questioning anything, going STRAIGHT into a song about being the 'MaStEr MiNd'. I hate how they try to make us feel bad when Octavia finally has enough of his foolishness, she deserves better.

[@LatteCappucinoCamellia]

What I find interesting is that Ghostf**kers, one if probably the only episode in season 2 (tell me if I’m wrong please) that was written by Brandon Rogers, and people say its probably the best episode of the season, while the majority of season two is either written by Viv (Who, lets be honest, isn’t good at writing at all) or another writer (If you know Unhappy campers, well apparently the guy who wrote that may be part of the writing team for HH Season 2, which already gives it a bad look).

[@bluecyborgstudios3017]

Yep. Stolas is one terrible father.

[@rahimouahmed3354]

i dont think the main problem of stolas and octavia is lack of context,while yes,stolas said nothing to octavia about what's happening,she perfectly understands that her mom and uncle are terrible people and knows that stolas loves blitz,and to some extent,she is fine with it as she wants her dad to be happy,the problem to me is that she and we as the viewers witness firsthand that stolas cares about blitz way more than octavia,she is a literal afterthought to him,a consequence he only thinks about after doing the action,in all three episodes were octavia was involved,stolas cared way more about staying with blitz than to take care of his daughter,and she was in two of these three to see how he favoured blitz way more(she wasnt there in S2 EP2 to see stolas literally contradict everything loona said to her)

[@ilikejuce]

Im genuinely worried that someone in Vivs audience will get into a toxic relationship and when they get love bombed theyll think its ok because of Stolitz. I dont think Viv understand how young and impressionable her audience is (especially considering its mostly filled with 10-12 year olds in middle school). I dont know if im over reacting but im worried Helluva will have a similar effect fifty shades of grey did and cause people to get abused/manipulated and think its ok or excuse this behavior because of Helluva. Its also not great that there saying its ok to cheat if you gay but not if your straight. Again, how many kids are going to see their gay friends get cheated on and justify the cheaters actions? Cheating isnt ok period. Straight or gay it's not ok. (Before you call me homophobic I'm a part of the LGBTQ+ community and think people shouldn't be treated differently just because they're a part of it too.) Everyone should be treated with the same amount of respect and kindness no matter who you are. I don't get why this show that tries to preach about racial inconsistencies doesn't understand this basic concept.

[@jadamiller7485]

Stolas USED to be a good father. He seems to be having trouble being one nowadays.

[@lunaitor-uq9hz]

At least he TRIED to be a good father before...now he doesn't even bother

[@candyrox1493]

Thank goodness i wasnt the only one that cringed on "You're my heart". Such bad delivery, didnt fit the character at that time

[@Aussie44]

bro thank you so much for saying this I always see so much hate on Octavia after this episode. Like I don’t get it everything she said was justified. Also people need to realize that Octavia never knew how shit Stella was to Stolas as we can see in Loo Loo Land (Ep 2) she said something along the lines “When my parents didn’t hate each other” implying that she never knew that her parents hated each other before Stolas cheating. People also don’t realize she is a LITERAL TEENAGER going through the most shittiest divorce with her parents, her mother isn’t the best and her father is just always neglecting her. She had every right to crash out.

[@Aussie44]

Another thing is that people argued on the fact she said she was an obligation when clearly she was. In ‘The circus’ episode Stolas was arguing with Stella and told her “The only reason I have endured ur constant insults and cruelty was for that GIRL to have a normal life”. Implying Octavia was an obligation and He did in fact stay miserable because of her which is such a shitty reason like instead of just divorcing after Octavia was born he decided to stay and make her household a shitty and toxic mess

[@PR3SS.3SC]

when Stolas was on the fake out death my thought process was literally "Omg he's not gonna die rn but I wish he would"

[@underbakedbeanie]

@@PR3SS.3SC 😭😭😭

[@CR34M-P]

11:32 it was a twist for me because I FULLY thought the bathroom scene was supposed to be a self harm section and I was FEARFUL.

[@VolXiz0]

Damn, the writing is so wack. I hate it, I liked the silly demons killing humans business.. but this? It turning into shitty, toxic yoai is crazy. Especially how they treated Striker, and Stella.. Stella could have been SUCH an amazing villain.

[@Moghster6969]

Why is that toxic exacly?

[@VolXiz0]

@ Power imbalance, treating your partner unfairly, Stolas sexually harassing Blitzo, those are a few reasons, but I bet you could find more.

[@Moghster6969]

​@@VolXiz0 more specyfic examples?

[@VolXiz0]

@Moghster6969 “It’s so *Thrilling* to see you on the job~!” Episode 2 or something, also “My ity bity imp plaything.”

[@gOat_GrandMa]

@Moghster6969 Justifying cheating isn't toxic? Gaslighting in a relationship and claiming victim isn't harmful to you?

[@hairoakrei8802]

The way I wish Seeing Stars went is: It be focus majority of Octavia in the human world and being lost but making the best of it for awhile and the be plot be everyone looking for her and then loona find her and they have more of a bonding experience til Via is ready to see her dad.

[@AvocadoToastSeinVater]

Omg at 14:19 when your character started to apear It litteraly scared the shit out of me, because im watching this in the middle of the night. So when your dark character apaered I thougt there was a giant bug crawling over my phone in the dark 😭😭😭

[@doctordogelordtmg9637]

Lmao a cockroach somehow bigger than Stolas you deserve some sleep buddy

[@queenlightfury8964]

At this point the show should be labeled gaslight boss. Justice for octavia she deserves better

[@theluckycloverr]

no because its the fact that i saw helluva die hards lose their shit over the most VALID crashout in the history of the hellaverse and have the nerve to say that his DAUGHTER didn't deserve him? no. HE didnt deserve his daughter. stolas the most deadbeat, hypersexual, classist, pretentious, STUPID character ive ever seen in my entire life. and the thing is.... we're supposed to LIKE him? absolutely not. imagine if stolas was female and did HALF of the shit he did to octavia as a "mother". how would she be seen by the fandom? how would the writers of the show look trying to portray that? the ONLY reason stolas is able to get away with the shit that he does is because he's a gay man. is it somewhat of an outlandish claim? yeah, a little. but think about it: is it really so out there to believe that if stolas was straight or a woman, the fandom would not have been so kind to him? if a straight man said "i sacrificed myself for my wife at the expense of leaving my daughter alone with her negligent mother", would we show him the same amount of grace we did stolas? NO. BECAUSE NOBODY DESERVES THAT TREATMENT.

[@mooniera2810]

The whole "Blitzo forcing himself on Stolas" is a frigging lie because STOLAS was the one who forced HIMSELF onto Blitzo. Yeah, he was drunk, but he's the one who initiated the whole thing in the first place.

[@Rey_Palpatine]

I hate how Blitzø got falsely accused of raping Stolas, but they never properly acknowledged within the show that Stolas was actually the one in the predatory position of power in the dynamic. He sort of got away scot-free in some ways, weirdly. Sure, he got his powers taken away and his child (rightfully) wants nothing to do with him now, but he never got called out for the actual troubling things he's done. I don't have high hopes of him getting called out for those things in future episodes at this point, either

[@divine555]

​@@Rey_Palpatinethey've both SA'd one another, stolas coerced him and blitzo did to him when he was asleep...

[@redpanda6497]

​​@@divine555 When he was asleep? What? When was that?

[@divine555]

@redpanda6497 in mastermind

[@redpanda6497]

@@divine555 Uh, no??

[@moldycheese6635]

I agree with most of your points, but the point about Stolas being too powerful to be raped is just icky. Anyone can be raped, regardless of any powers. Blitz could’ve just waited until Stolas was asleep, used drugs to make him docile or unconscious, could’ve blackmailed him with the grimoire, etc.

[@underbakedbeanie]

@moldycheese6635 I see your point. Let me rephrase mine then. When we see how Blitz tried to steal the grimoire the first time, he immediately gets caught. Mostly because Blitz was anything but stealthy. So it more than likely wouldn’t have played out like that. I can understand him possibly getting attacked in his sleep but at that time, Stella and Stolas still shared a bed and Blitz definitely would’ve woken someone up. Drugging his food could work but that would be way too much effort on Blitz’s part tbh. And blackmailing him wouldn’t work either cause Stolas could’ve just killed him by petrifying him. I do agree that can be raped regardless of powers. It’s just the based on everything I know about how that characters and this world works, Blitz would not have succeeded in getting away with doing it. (I hope this clears that up. I’m very sorry if that part of my video made you uncomfortable)

[@moldycheese6635]

@underbakedbeanie Thanks for clearing that up! You just gained a sub

[@TakesALiarToKnowALiar]

I will forever grieve the idea of Stella being a good mom, but a bad person 💔💔 could’ve been interesting

[@yastery8715]

I thank all the people who make these videos because we need them

[@tylergood3773]

Stella needed a femme fatale plot. Viv doesn't write female or characters outside of Stolitz well.

[@redpanda6497]

Isn't the femme fetale a character who lures away people with their attractiveness and unalives them? I don't agree. That would reduce her to her look.

[@woodie3030]

Today's topic: Viv's internalized misogyny and fetishization *and* simultaneous infantilization of gay men (for the 927393738339372927th time. i love the concepts of Hazbin and and Helluva but Viv is just not a good writer)

[@Virtual_Eclipse]

I’ll be honest, I’ve never really liked stolas character or the ship to begin with, I’d admit I was interested in the ship in season one. I was interested in the dynamic of Stolas choosing his lust for blitzo and the power control and blitzo being in a deal for the sake of his business. I was interested in that. That’s why I came to the show. I knew it was toxic. That’s why I liked it (obviously I didn’t want them together because reasons are obvious) But now Stolas is kinda…Cuteified, I hated the changed of how they knew each other from two separate people making a deal to fulfill both desires to some childhood thing. I’m a blitz defender, he’s fucked up. Yes, he very much did and I don’t think he’s perfectly innocent. But I hate how the show makes Stolas the victim even though WE’RE CLEARLY SHOWN THAT STOLAS IS A HYPOCRITE AND ISNT INNOCENT TOO. I like this show, and I’m glad that indie shows like this can get the spotlight. Though the writing needs to be better, they really need to look through they’re writing 5 or 6 times. Because this is sad. (This is my nonsensical rant. If I’m wrong on anything do correct me)

[@leavemealone802]

"Kids are not allowed" But that is 90% of the fanbase. Unfortunally

[@underbakedbeanie]

@@leavemealone802 I know. Doesn’t hurt to give a warning tho. So I’ll do it anyways

[@wolfesona]

... this is why I watch HB for the animation because there is literally no writing. Great video!! (It was on my recommendation feed and after this I might just become a subscriber!)

[@Glitchhusky9304]

This just this i feel like octavia deserve a lot of love i hate stolas with a passion but when people got mad at octavia for being upset at stolas for what he did even after promisin her he wouldnt leave her its justify for being mad yet i do understand wanting to save blitz also what about the crystal blitz has you would think he stolas or asmodeous would mention that

[@Poefeathyr]

As soon as she threw up in front of the snow man I knew she was pregnant and I said "Oh no...." my Boyfriend was confused and didn't believe me until the reveal at the end

[@theTheoryofEvil]

I’m so glad that not everyone hates Via. She’s my favorite character and seems like one of the most sane in the whole show. She’s going through so much and is struggling with how to react to it all. How do people hate a kid watching everything she knew about her life fall apart?

[@matthaygood654]

Stolas is an awful father, and Octavia is a victim. She is stuck between two narcissistic, maniac parents who have both abandoned her in some way. Of COURSE she's angry and upset at Stolas! But i don't want to see Octavia nad at just Stolas, i want her pissed off at Stella too! She took Octavia's phone, made fun of Stolas in front of her and made no attempt to bond with- oh I don't know- THE FUTURE PRINCE OF THE GOETIA FAMILY ***WHO WILL HAVE POWER OVER HER AND ANDRE***! And this is another thing, what happens when the banishment is up??? Octavia will obviously be the prince, so will Stolas stay mortal? Will he become the prince again? Will he be forced into a lower role? Will he rule with Octavia? WHAT TF WILL HAPPEN?!

[@transdollie9677]

I guess I'm a "Stolas apologist" to some degree, but that's mainly because I genuinely believe that, if he were a female character, he wouldn't receive the vitriole that he does. Like, gender swap Stella and Stolas, and suddenly we have a violently abusive man and a woman seeking emotional and sexual solace beyond that abuse. People would cheer that on. I do think Stolas is a shit dad. I don't blame him for cheating on Stella. Octavia is 100% right to not want contact with her dad. And I think, at the end of the day... none of it matters. None of these characters, except Blitzø, are important enough to stand on their own without an intrinsic relationship TO Blitzø. Octavia's crash out, just like the entire trial, only exists to push Stolas into a position in which Blitzø can finally have him without having to earn him. Neither of them did the work to earn the relationship, but because the end goal is Stolitzø, the narrative needed to knock Stolas down to a level at or below that of Blitzø so that his trophy was ready and waiting for him at the finish line.

[@E3257.StudiosEverythingAwesome]

You're a great artist! ❤❤❤❤ Honestly, I can't expand much more on this than what most people are saying in the comments, but if you have anything else to say on the show, or Hazbin Hotel, I'd love to hear it. I enjoy in-depth analysis of how such a unique universe could've been so much better. Gives me lots of personal inspiration for my own projects.

[@underbakedbeanie]

@@E3257.StudiosEverythingAwesome Thank you! I did think about making a few more things on Helluva and possibly a Hazbin video sometime in the future. We’ll see :3

[@RingJester1Real]

One point I'd like to make, Brandon Rogers was put on as a co-writer before the show was actually in production. He also was the one who recommended the Stolitz romance, so Viv more or less ran with it.

[@allisondempsey982]

You know, oftentimes I've wondered what would have happened if he had never made that suggestion to Viv?

[@RingJester1Real]

@@allisondempsey982 Same here. I love Brandon Rogers, and his writing is usually peak with Adam Neylan, but Viv just sort of turns everything she touches into a rushed mess.

[@hermangrinden1283]

Just a random thought i had while watching your video, but if they had actually followed through with it and killed either Blitz or Stolas just as they realize how much they care about each other despite their recent conflict. It could have been pretty interesting moving forward. But only if they had built up for it (this is just reacting to the Trial and mastermind bits of the video)

[@underbakedbeanie]

@@hermangrinden1283 Oooooo it really would have!

[@hermangrinden1283]

@@underbakedbeanie Just think of the juicy character development we could have gotten. The guilt, the doubt, especially the regret! How would I.M.P move forward for example, would Blitz be having a hard time killing? or if Blitz dies how would I.M.P be working? The potential just kills me

[@Ghostee-k9x]

@@hermangrinden1283 yea I see where your going that would actually be interesting

[@chloeandemilysworld]

As someone who was a huge fan of HH and HB when the pilots initally came out, but eventually fell out of HB love for the series when harvest moon came out ( which i was also hoping to be a millie focused episode ) and has never really liked stolas from the beginning ( i was hoping his character would be redeemed even just a little bit but was proven. extremely wrong. ) and HH for.. similar reasons.. This video literally is just all my problems with the series thus far. BUT *ESPECIALLY* these two episodes. Will continue to stick with the fandoms content made for the series. Also i love your art style and your video was very well written and summarized ^^

[@underbakedbeanie]

@@chloeandemilysworld Thank you so much :3

[@chloeandemilysworld]

​@@underbakedbeanie ALSO- JUST WANTED TO SAY- I think the way you explained why Stolas is a flawed parents was done so perfectly As someone who has a similar ( if not worse ) relationship with my father as Octavia Hurts to see people belittle her and the series make you feel like you've gotta feel bad for stolas because ITS ALL A MISUNDERSTANDINGGG when it's literally not and he's just been kind of a crap dad thus far 💀 That's it just Really enjoyed your video and wanted to share my thoughts Hope you have a good day!!

[@nschannel826]

Millions of people have said this before me, but Helluva Boss (and vivziepop's shows in general) are not mature animated shows No, uncensored swear words and sex jokes are not enough to make a show mature, being tonally mature and being inappropriate for children are two different things and from what I've seen, Hellaverse is NOT the former

[@MelodyMute]

I dropped the show a few episodes ago, I forget exactly when. After noticing a lot of videos pop up lately and learning about the backlash the last two episodes created, I kinda caught up using reviews and discussion vids like these. And yeah, I'm glad I dropped off when I did. There is one thing you brought up I do see a different light on: I think Via should hear Stolas out. Not because he deserves it, but because she does. She deserves to know how her mom truly behaves and learn how she's been using her to get a one up on Stolas. But still don't let Via forgive him. I'd be more interested seeing her deal with a "lesser of two evils" deal. Let her see them both for what they are and determine if she wants to care about either of them after that.

[@NikaNani686]

I have absolutely no doubt in my mind, that stolas loves octavia. but just loving his daughter and being nice to her once in a while doesn't make stolas a good parent..

[@maxdahooman]

This show AND many in the fandom have some sort of anti-woman problem and a fetishizing queer men problem *BOTH* the female leads barely have any development. Going onto season 3 and we don't have a Millie episode and we know nothing about Loona's past and how she ended up the way she is or how she ended up in the hellhound pound Stella is robbed of being her own villain and is dumbed down so Andreaphous can take center stage despite the fact that SHE'S the one that has beef with Stolas Stolas is a racist and classist POS but the fandom and show woobify him and act like he's done no wrong and that Blitz is some ultimate evil for calling him out. Octavia is villainized for RIGHTFULLY being mad at her shitty father by the fandom because they are incapable of ever seeing Stolas as being in the wrong Octavia AND Stella barely have a character outside the existence of Stolas and Andreaphous. Everything about them is surface level as hell And ofc Stella is obviously the "bitch wife gets in the way of gay couple" trope instead of a real character

[@djinsanity3575]

I would like to add my two cents in. If anyone has seen Miraculous tales of ladybug and cat noir that show has the same problems this one does. Its adult fan fiction put on a pedestal and dragged down by its creator and others involved. This show had so much going for it and the host here pointed out most of the problems Vizzy's world has. Both series had potential but they fell so hard from the goal and it shows that these people can't write. Thanks for sharing your thoughts

[@Maxolotllol]

You earned my sub, well done :) 14:30 also, saying a fanfic is better than vivzie’s writing is cold asf 😂

[@FlippinGurtrude]

The fact they actual had the balls to write that Blitz forced himself onto Stollas is honestly THE MOST "protect my badly written character at all costs" thing I've ever seen. Stollas talked down to Blitz. Stollas took sexual advantage of Blitz. Stollas sexually harrassed Blitz. The whole Stollitz storyline is just gross and not romantic at all, which makes me cringe when I see particular youtuber's crying over romantic scenes and "emotional" moments. They're also the ones that kiss Viv's ass the most, and are a part of a particular rainbow group, so I'm not really surprised. Writing Stollas as if none of the above happened, is a clear indicator they're trying to turn him into a character he was never supposed to be. The pilot's premise, which got most people into the show, clearly got dropped halfway through season one, and now most fans can see what a mess season two has became. Stollas getting away with everything he's done is such horrible writing choice, so when Octavia leaves, instead of it being seen as emotional, a lot of people cheered, because f*ck that selfish and disgusting excuse for a father.

[@kawa8149]

lmao this video made me realize why I love Octavia so much. I relate to girly. I have emotionally distant father, who I guess was there physically, but not mentally. Octavia best girl

[@INTERNET_ANGEL_BOY]

this video is super good!!! the commentary was engaging and nice to both put on in the background OR put my full attention on, i also really enjoyed the art in the background and YOUR SONA IS SO CUTE AND CREATIVE!!!!! looking forward to more ^_^ (if this is what you do, lol, i haven't reached the outro yet c:)

[@wolfgangs_pokerface]

I agree with almost every point! All except one, in fact. My only point of yours I take issue with is talking about how confusing and unjust the justice system in hell court is as if it's not supposed to be like that. You're supposed to be confused and have a feeling of injustice - because that's what's happening. It doesn't make sense because it's not supposed to. Other than that, I agree on every point. While I enjoyed these episodes, that's only really because I kinda forgot what happened in the rest of the series.

[@Bluepony666]

Who knew a show about assassins and lore of hell would turn into a soap opera with pregnancy plot

[@Darshantre]

The way they portray octavia was dirty, they could've showed all the time stolas ignored octavia cuz he was obsessed with blitz . He was a bad dad, he knows lending the grimorire to blitz have consequences like never seeing his daughter again and can get blitz killed And as soon stolas did get blitz he turn his way on octavia

[@tell-me-a-story-]

Honestly I can see the court believing that Blitze forced himself on Solace based on prejudice. This happened a lot in the south post slavery. Based on the photography of Emmit Till, he wasn’t um.. Developed enough to have the desire or the ability to force himself on the woman who accused him. Basically, he was a little boy. Everyone in the town could see that, but they didn’t really care if she was lying. They wanted an excuse to attack a black boy. Now, the episode does NOT handal the racism in a realistic or engaging way. But I think I know what they were going for. IDK it’s still dumb and Sola e is a creep.

[@TheUltimateHumanBeing]

This is my first time in the channel and for a minute I thought you cropped the Octavia image from the thumbnail, I was really impressed as I watched the background time lapse.

[@KuRinKi_3456]

I totally agree with you on all points and I just never realized it because it was too emotional for me. ALSO they tried so hard to make mastermind more funny. They gave Blitz's spelling/reading problems to Stricker which just made me so frustrated.

[@victoriawhitcomb6475]

I really like Helluva Boss. When the writing is good, its really good and enjoyable! When the writing is bad though... its a lot harder to ignore. And I think that's the best way to describe this story. When its good its good and when its bad its painful. I really think we need to see Blitzo have his own breakdown though. The man seems to be trying to work through his issues and support Stolas - which work, we love a man trying to better himself - but the man is gonna burnout. He's trying to support himself, a daughter and now his roommate while trying to run a business and work. Man is gonna have a crash out.

[@STARXXKK]

"Don't touch my omega" ahh thumbnail

[@13vampires_Near_Y0u]

Not even gonna lie that's how I feel about Octiva right now. Like don't touch my baby ***Alpha growling***

[@gOat_GrandMa]

I wanna protect Octavia from her father and the writers

[@STARXXKK]

Idgaf abt the video I just thought that the thumbnail was cringe

[@AcordHachi]

TL;DR for my comments: season 1 has some subtle falws that get exponential in season 2 and the dealbreaker is that the circus, the worst written episode for this show (not the most unenjoyble, big difference, that wouls be unhappy campers, seeins stars or western energy, I don't care) because it retcons EVERYTHING about Stolas. His age, his relation with Blitz, with Stella in the past, Stella herself, season 1 is decanonised in the circus and apology tour and no one can lie to us about this, not even Viv.

[@Moghster6969]

You mean some stuff from pilot or nah?

[@the_collector_of_different_toy]

At this point, I’m expect Vivi To pull something out of her ass to say that stole is somehow laid Octavia egg himself because he can do no wrong

[@underbakedbeanie]

@@the_collector_of_different_toy 😂😂😂

[@Glamrock_Ballora_FNAF]

FINALLY, SOMEONE SAID IT!I completely understand where you're coming from. I love the show too, but I have to agree that the last two episodes felt rushed and disappointing. It reminded me of a student who waits until the last minute to finish an essay, throwing something together and just hoping it hits the mark. It’s frustrating to watch, especially when it seems like they’re trying to make the story “darker” after it had been taking on a lighter tone. 100% agree with you!!

[@underbakedbeanie]

@Glamrock_Ballora_FNAF YES! That’s exactly what it feels like.

[@Glamrock_Ballora_FNAF]

@@underbakedbeanie yeah! loved the video btw and the art is super cute!! new subscriber now

[@underbakedbeanie]

@ Thank you sm! 🥰

[@Glamrock_Ballora_FNAF]

@@underbakedbeanie ofc! tbh now I wanna do a video on my thoughts on the show

[@Moghster6969]

"Finally someone said it..." You realsie that both helluva as a show and episodes themselfs gets constantly criticised right?

[@Virtualsinner]

I NEED to know who wrote Stolas

[@aeemxe]

IKR

[@JustinTheSpider]

I really hope things turn around for this show

[@krampus7520]

I love seeing 1000x the critical thought put into the commnts and analytical disertions of WHY people hate the show compared to the show itself

[@A_Sterling_Rose]

Did anyone else wonder where Piamon was during the trial?

[@iheartmitski_zz]

i despise that helluva boss is a cheesy romcom with no coherent writing when that wasn't how it was marketed at all

[@redpanda6497]

I have no problem with romcoms, but it's badly written and doesn't fit here.

[@PandaLillie]

The thing about the show that's starting to really bug me is just the fact that the commentary itself is only that it's commentary via the characters specifically in those scenes but it's not actually shown in the world building itself season 1 showed stories to really be that rich Prince asshole that we know Blitz to explain in bitch about later on the series but then they do 180 on his character and that's understandable but they do it in a way where it's almost like tonal whiplash and they have that problem too where there's tonal whiplash in that all of these grand moments in the shows are fine if you're just seeing those clippets but when you go from it as a story story writing prompt it doesn't flow right episode 11 and 12 showcase that immensely. Like episode 11 could have been way better if they just added it like maybe two more scenes or just a quick narrative of Andrea versus plan ultimately on how he was going to orchestrate this whole entire courtroom thing and then maybe giving IMP more of a standing inexplaining themselves better and still coming to the verdict of them getting executed Like if they did either those two things it would have show further like the corruptness of hell but since we didn't even get that we're sitting here like we get it to kangaroo court but we didn't even have an any sense of a courtroom happening here. Since Mrs Sweet if you just keep all the sweet sentimental moments in there the only good part was literally the daydreaming sequence and then stolis fighting andre. Everything else tone-wise was okay but then you get to the point where Octavia is just mad and angsty teen but you're sitting here like you have a right to be angsty Matt Dean but you also are being really oblivious and stupid in a way where it really isn't okay like you can be a sheltered rich chick but you can't just sit up here and say your dad abandoned you when you know for a fact he's been trying to call you for a solid month

[@TrentGaines]

I am a fan of the show, and I am welcome to hearing the criticism!😊