Why I've Stopped Using Salvo Fire In Battleships

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[@hughejass9461]

I've fired single in ships like the Lyon (t7) and the Agincourt for quite a long time. Both ships have shotgun dispersion but I've found through hundreds of games that my dispersion "seems" better this way. I also "seem" to get more fires. No scientific studies or anything but with over 20k battles sometimes you just go with your gut. Keep up the great work.

[@MRunar007]

same, but the germans struggle

[@idioluh5838]

It's depends on how dispersion is calculated for salvo fire. If in case of salvo dispersion is calculated once and then applied to all turrets - single turret fire is definitely way to go. If in case of salvo fire each turret gets it own dispersion calculated - when it's most likely a placebo effect (although, depending on how exactly it is calculated - it still might be beneficial to let server give you those numbers with some delay between them, instead of doing it in one tick).

[@Terrorkahn]

I have been playing since closed beta, and I absolutely believe what you say is true. I primarily play battleships, and it seems like when you single fire each salvo it gets its own type of dispersion and calculation.

[@hagostaeldmann]

It isn't though. It's very obviously calculated per turret even with salvo fire, you can watch any shot with salvo fire, and see this.

[@toyslucas9237]

it's calculated per barrel. not per Salvo nor per turret.

[@hagostaeldmann]

@@toyslucas9237 I think it's very obviously calculated per firing instance (turret). Extremely obvious sometimes.

[@angga2917]

Yeah I kinda want to see some testing of dispersion RNG and how it's generated, like the torp tubes' HP pool. For example about whether the randomness is generated right after finished reloading, or right after clicking, or when the shells are in the air.

[@adammarcinkowski-ko3el]

Buddy wows is just a arcade game is closer to Dredge that Dangerous Waters , and players like to play that arcade game because is easy to control , WSAD / ZXCV/1234/RTYUI + mouse is all you need , and then is tactics , WG could add sepred control to every turrest , manulal secondary , manual AA ... but that would give advantage to players who will learn to use it in battle , and WG dont want that , because in that case WOWS would stop being arcade game.

[@RushyoRifle]

So I have never used salvo fire, I have always ripple fired and I still get the bugs.

[@nicholaslau3194]

I believe that dispersion RNG is calculated the moment you fire. This is because there are modifiers to the dispersion depending on the battle situation. For example, locking on to a target automatically gives you some dispersion buff. This can be easily noticed when blind firing into smokes.

[@dany1441]

From this video, it does seem to make a difference. Recently the 'shells falling short' bug has been insane. Both in cruisers and in BB's. So maybe I will try this.

[@_Fulgur_]

i personally use single fire to account for the enemy ship accelerating/decelerating, instead of firing all shells at the same time allowing for the ship to easily dodge my salvo. instead spread the shells horizontally so at least if the changes speed some of the shells will hit. same can apply for when a ship is moving towards or away from my your direction. spread the shells vertically to account for enemy ship acceleration/deceleration.

[@etdizzle10]

I usually do the same thing; however, I was just holding down the mouse button thinking that shot each turrent "once" for more rolls, but this seems to really show a HUGE difference.

[@Kirk-qo4lc]

I've been doing this for a majority of my BB's for ages, But mainly to 'cover' the options the enemy has to dodge the fire(especially at range).Never thought about it in the way you have though,and about time a youtuber says about singlefiring :D Another thing ive noticed is sometimes a cruiser will dodge,then relax and puts themselves in a position to take the one turret thats still in 'reserve' ;)

[@RicardoGonzalez-to7vb]

Finally someone brought attention to it, it was working for me a few updates back when I was in the ship before the Bismark

[@Mr_King96]

If only WG took care that the MAIN FEATURE (and i'm not talking about planes) of their game worked properly, you wouldn't have to go through this song and dance during every salvo

[@kyleaugustine6886]

The back turret thing is more because the gun cam, will typically default to the rear turrets. I actually find it annoy that I can't keep the camera locked to my front guns, but it auto swaps constantly. There used to be a setting that would lock the cam to amid ship where your primary Fire control is located. Had some of my best shot when that was an option but WG removed that feature.

[@Micharus]

One thing I like to do with ships that have long reloads, is to time fire the turrets, so that as I fire the last turret, the first is about be ready to fire again. It's a lot of fun with DD's too, instead of firing every 5 seconds you get a shell out every second, like raining shells much?

[@gregwilliams4437]

One possibility is that the game uses the location of individual turrets for each shot when they are fired one at a time (four turrets - four locations to which horizontal and vertical dispersion as well as grouping are applied; and a different set of mathematics when a single salvo is fired - perhaps the front closest turret or the actual central of the ship. This would make more of a difference on battleships since they are so much longer than a destroyer. It could also be that these dispersion and grouping mathematics use sample size as a variable in the application of shell separation - more drift when 12 shells are fired than when 3 shells are fired. It could all just be in the math somewhere.

[@Mustang_Dan]

I’ve always switched it up. Sometimes I’m not exactly sure if my lead and angle are going to be correct to land hits on a CL turning 18km away so I’ll fire the turrets one at a time as I’m ever so slightly nudging the pipper in an arch. Basically trying to walk the shells on target.

[@dalamar_argent]

I'd probably do some testing in a training battle to confirm something like this. This could easily be an artifact of sampling a random process. When you take 12 samples (12 guns for instance) from the normal ellipse, you could randomly select 3 of the 12 numerous times and they'll mostly likely look like a tighter grouping. What's happening is that the "average" or "center of mass" of each of those selections of 3 are different while the end-to-end "range" or "spread" of those 3 around said center of mass is likely tighter than the 12 original samples. Therefore, single firing will likely always feel more consistent because it's hard to spot the drift in the grouping as a whole when firing at a moving object and taking more samples (salvo firing) will give you greater likelihood to sample an extreme part of the distribution even if the center of mass will be closer to where you aimed.

[@dirkk.6573]

Want too see large sample testing of the thesis in training battle mode.

[@muhammadhuzaifaazam]

What is this layout btw? Where do you get that HUD and on screen icons and that ship alignment tracker in the lower left corner?

[@curebores646]

When you single fire your guns all aim at a point, when you salvo fire your guns spread out wider like a shotgun blast. This means that if you have good aim like you do single fire can be better however if your aim is a little off you are going to miss everything while salvo fire means you can be a little bit off with your lead and still hit at least something.

[@quylong8678]

Well have tried that on yamato, quite effective honestly😂😂😂

[@alexwellman6592]

I think this whole thing is related to the "railgun" bug from a while back when you could aim short and snap up to a ship and have very short travel time. WG moved the distance check to the end of the server tick instead of the beginning of the tick. Lots of people fire and immediately drop the zoom on the guns to get a better look at the battle and I think its causing the shells to no longer go where you initially intended. The aim marker is rounding down a few pixels and making you less accurate. By ripple firing the guns you keep aim on the correct spot for the whole server tick and therefore hit more shots.

[@Johnnymac66]

I started single-firing my BB's after watching your Dancing Grober video and it has improved my results. I think you're on to something.

[@twinkyoctopus]

I have a similar experience, amd while it may just be coincidence, (us humans are great at finding pstterns in randomness) it seemed to me when i played the lower teir battleships with lots of individual turrets, that the horizantal dispersion was less than it would be under a salvo. the reaaoning I came up with was that it tried to center the shots, amd because of how 'wide' a salvo is with the lower teir ships, you get less spread firing them individually.

[@robertcras8151]

I do it as well, it works for me. I noticed it when I played ships where I had to turn some more to get the rear turrets on target (like Missouri) it always seemed the back turrets in the second salvo with the rear turrt(s) had great RNG, bullets were stuck together.

[@PlayJasch]

It is all rigged for engagement optimization. Timmy needs to hit his shots too sometimes.

[@adammarcinkowski-ko3el]

Game is rigges I found out that long time ago , I ame FTP player and I noticed that with premium account I get better MM .

[@adammarcinkowski-ko3el]

@@yok-fk5li Yup there is , there was time I have compare my MM teamates with their players stats page , and players who have spend more cash on ships , you can see that because it shows where ships have been added , they had in that persiod when they had added those ships better period = win rate , you can see that in top right side of page , so yes where ever you spend cash on game that made difference in game , I have tracked that in 3 differend periods June 2020 , May 2021 , and March 2023 (and I still do), that MM benefit WG , becuse happy whale spend more cash = they get in MM to team where are most players have good WR 56%+... have you meet sometime player that is shit and get carried to high rank in ranked ? , that is a whale that get help from MM, that is WG marketing strategy.

[@scarecrow_gaming0032]

Damn where you guys buying your tinfoil hats at?

[@j_taylor]

This thread is hilarious. I assume the conspiracy posts are trolling, but I know some players who really do think the game is tilted against them personally.

[@pr0skis]

defs 100% rigged. when i run it down and get giga reported, I'll detonate multiple times. guaranteed every time. tested it many times already. imagine being some shill (flamu) and still saying this game isnt rigged on every level lmfao

[@vtr0104]

I have no idea if the accuracy changes or not, the only reasons I've been doing this are: - It sounds cooler when all of the guns fire (especially for people who own stuff with 457s and up, wih the Shikishima and Satsuma having arguably the best sounds in the game); - It helps when you have targets that are about to either go dark or hide since you can roll as many dice as possible to try and hit them when you fire. Also, I know it's possible to just double-click to fire all guns, but I've had times when the game registers it as one-click, fires Turret 1 and then the other 3, which is damn annoying. So, instead, I just pre-select HE if I'm firing AP or the other way around and this links the guns to the ammo change so that when you only click once, the guns all fire at once, 100% of the time (with the down-side being you have to remember to immediately re-select the correct ammo and pre-select the other, otherwise you'll be firing the wrong one by the time your reload's done).

[@veksar]

Over the years I've learned to single fire turrets with a few second gap in between shots against retreating ships so that don't get a 30 second window to turn and get all of their guns off. My completely subjective opinion formulated over a very long time is that single fired guns always seem to get one or two shells on target depending on how many guns you have in the turret. Where as with a full salvo its 1 to 3 shells from the full volley with the rest spraying all around. It does "feel" like the application of accuracy is applied that way, just the way lock on works.

[@rjdeseijn]

Yes, the single shots are in general more accurate than the full salvo. When you have the time for the single shots though. I can only really refer to the King George V up till Conqueror. Their guns are quite accurate. Not looking too much the German BBs I have with Bismarck and Pommern as my "highest ones" But again, I have good experience too with single shots.

[@timknight68]

In my BBS I fire one turret at a time when leading DDs. Partly adjusting trajectory between turrets. I wonder how long the timer is between "MB1" firings where the code resets the ballistics variables formula.

[@PhantomSnipera]

If each shot is a dice roll (small roll) and a salvo is a dice roll (big roll). Dispersion has a maximum vertical and horizontal and a sigma for shell grouping. Big rolls you have a greater volume of shells on that roll and may be more likely to see the maximum values for dispersion. Small rolls maybe the less shells means you are less likely to see your maximums? Or maybe it's what you mention with the inputs or a bug in the code or something. This is definitely worth testing and seeing if there is a deference in the data.

[@Pentagram666mar]

I would say that maximum dispersion applies to salvo fire, i have never seen single turret guns throwing shells for example with 230m dispersion. So how i read it, by single firing you get each turret this tighter dispersion. Probably when you fire salvo your guns point into 3 or 4 circles withing 230m radius, it's similar lenght to the ship, when you fire one turret it will point into center of this 230m, second gun into center etc instead of covering that 230m lenght. Damn i don't know if i expleined my thoughts correctly :P even when you fire salvo if you look at it, it's pretty much impossible to shells of one turret land extremely to the right and extremely to the left in one salvo, it's always front turret lands to the left, back turret lands to the right, so single fired guns are pointed to the centre.

[@jarrodhroberson]

been doing this since view change patch and getting same results much more consistent dispersion

[@mazgazine1]

Gonna try this.

[@u.s.a7682]

I picked up on this the awhile ago. The algorithm is set up for a "shot". Firing a salvo, the algorithm will pick yay or nay, giving you one chance. Multiple fires rerolls the algorithm each time giving you better chances.

[@randomyoutubecommentersecu7639]

What line would you recommend for closer range brawling or fighting for bbs? Schlieffen or kremlin? I mainly play CAs (des moines and petro) and BBs and have long range covered by yamato and mid with Montana..Don't own lutjens but own a 12 pt cpt so far.

[@david_3248]

You sir are a genius. I’m not a very good player & relatively new to the game(playing in t5-8). this single firing works really well for me I can finally do ~100k dmg compared to previous ~5-70k in my amagi. Way better than salvos, even tho it’s not as satisfying

[@northernzeus768]

It’s funny. That is the first thing I noticed on the GK uploads.

[@stonii8385]

I like to run incoming fire warning, and I got citadeled so many times because I would confuse the multiple "!" Flashes of single firing bb's for a smaller caliber gun that I couldn't see.

[@TheNefertitu]

I Have exactly the same feeling about this and im watching you

[@RAMATEC-1]

Hi, potato. I've heard that in battleships you have to go at 1/4 or 1/2 speed for better dispersion, is this true?

[@josephstatum]

I tried this along time ago.. i found if im trying to hit one single point on the ship adjusting my lead while firing single target is a better result on dispersion but i never saw that equal more damage

[@bazz1376]

Yep! I'll give a go, just tried it and it certainly worth a crack.😎

[@buzzaard7036]

@Potato Quality I always looked at there being 3 methods of fire. Single click/tap as firing one gun at a time, Double Click/tap as Salvo fire where all guns fire at the same time, and Ripple/Sequential fire where you hold down the fire key and each turrets fires 1 at a time in sequence. There is technically another type of fire where you give just enough delay to not double tap but but click slow enough to fire each turret individually but closely spaced to be almost a Salvo fire but is not. You said you stopped Salvo firing but described ripple fire, could you clarify using the descriptions I used?

[@weepweep2225]

I thought the same thing actually. Not sure if it’s a mind trick for myself but I feel the dispersion is better when I single click my salvosas well 🤷

[@TakManSan]

Seems dispersion on single-clicks is individually dispersed, but with a mass-fire is calculated from the center point of the mass of incoming fire. Thus individually clicked shots have less overall dispersion. You can see why they would do this as it creates less RNG server-calls.

[@JigenlV]

Can you make a video with a Lepanto or Colombo? the italian battleships are the best for no accuraty at all, maybe is the best field to try this "no salvo" experiment, hope to see something new about this soon ^^

[@eq9710]

What is thing in the bottom left corner called so I can find it in moderation please.

[@devon5154]

I just started japenese BB line and i noticed when i salvo' the dispersion was quite bad but when i shoot one at a time my shots were more accurate

[@jacobotha6158]

Why do you have a Kitakami in your collection?

[@maelstrom2594]

It's all just mathematics. The sigma value for each ship represents the probability that your shots will land closer to the center of the aiming ellipse. The more times you calculate that probability, the closer you will be to the average possible result. In the longer term single fire will always give better results.

[@Papu028]

Secundaries with montana are good?

[@AscalonHauteclere]

When I played in my Furutaka and Aoba, I didn't even know salvo fire existed.

[@ethang6735]

unless its time sensitive like theyre about to get behind an island, i have just started chain firing (holding down M1) vs salvo firing in all my ships. idk about firing each one individually chain fire should have the same results in theory if there is a difference vs salvo fire

[@rageorge1369]

I have noticed that my rear turrets i. The Bismarck and Schlieffen have better dispersion and are way more accurate than the front ones

[@geramos109]

Can you try the Autolock off?

[@jaimemetcher388]

I suspect there's an "all guns miss" roll, independent of dispersion maths. Single turret firing would mean that if you do get the "all miss" roll, it won't affect all your guns. Just a theory. If I was to speculate further, I'd say this is a survivability buff for cruisers. I've seen battleship shells do crazy things to avoid hitting cruisers, leaving the muzzle at impossible angles. Also lots of straddles at close range, where the shells landing on the far side would have to pass through the target's hull to get there. I guess you could postulate sync issues, but it seems odd that two shells from the same turret would desync in opposite directions. Much simpler theory is that the game just says "nope", and then makes that happen.

[@Alex-hy9cw]

If you got alot of shells like vermont, montana & colombo, I prefer this way, but if its incomparable I rather full salvo it most times.

[@_Fulgur_]

shouldn't it be the other way around, less shells means you need more accuracy to make you shots count?

[@eragonrank5303]

I find Salvo firing better for twin barrels and Single firing good for triple barrels

[@Alex-hy9cw]

@@_Fulgur_ This is still only his assumption, nothing confirms this improves accuracy.

[@wegreedy6011]

What other video is he taking about in the beginning?

[@applecreperonin]

I noticed the volley has more accuracy than salvo when i'm using IJN Kongo. I always get more citadels. 1st i though it was Kongo / IJN BBs gimmick. But after watching this video, it make more sense coz even with Lyon ( notoriously known for shotgun dispersion) i get more damage dealt in volley.

[@rantanplan178]

You should have made this video! Wargaming is certainly "fixing" this 😁 Also - what happened to lock - unlock - lock again? You said the same about doing that. EDIT: 6:45 why not doing it in columbo or classic German BB line? If it really has an effect, it should also effect those ships. Certainly not giving the same result, but it should also be noticeable.

[@sameh59younis15]

Interesting concept tho most of the time you need the Salvo fire to catch a full broadside before the target turns around so not so sure how will you can actually use this

[@igoryst3049]

i single fire turrets when i want variable lead on all the turrets, like when firing on a cruiser that might accelerate or slow down or sth like that

[@Mr_Secondaries]

I single fire my guns in both CAs and BBs and yes, i do find I get better hits doing so at the cost of speed. That said, it's not 100% all the time, and sometimes you have to snap shot a salvo so, maybe it's a way to balance bb guns?

[@tomhoni9642]

11km secondaries on Montana? did i miss somthing?

[@roys.1889]

Well this explains why I get more accuracy when I Front/Rear salvo in my German BBs.

[@junkiexl86]

Its all the same for me. When I fire at someone I get overpens and shatters on the shells that do hit, but when someone aims at me, pin point accuracy.

[@pavl3n]

I play the Incomparable a lot and I've noticed difference in dispersion if I do a salvo or the specific way I fire the guns. Also played the Schlieffen and I followed that way of firing and it worked also very well. Not sure if because both ships have double barrel turrets. I basically go for single fire the first turret and then salvo the rest. In the Incomparable it looks like single firing, but the dispersion is really tight. It's a DUM, DU-DUM type of salvo 😅 Or DUM, DU-DU-DUM with the Schlieffen. But yeah, I've noticed it too.

[@Dik131WZD]

I usually split for two two salvos and use single fires against DDs

[@seanwu9955]

Because there's still a lock on bug. when u see ur aiming lock on enemy ship, actually it's not lock on yet. I found lock on usually need couple of seconds to work after u lock on enemy ship.

[@sekofoni]

i'v had opposite experience could be that since i am playing German bb's and i feel like salvos tend to fill the center and have like 3 outliers and if i single fire i tend to have bad dispersion on all 4 shots

[@danielpayne1597]

I single fire in my Kii. I'm not the best aim, so I don't want to go all-in with a salvo usually. Staggering my shots helps split the difference to land half of them.

[@aresonantsoul6668]

This is why we watch your videos with zeal

[@TK-fk4po]

Interesting. Are usually only fire single turrets in a battleship against maneuvering, destroyers or light cruisers at longer range when they try to juke.

[@reynaldiwidjaja277]

ive been playing since 2016 only stopped playing a 2021 i noticed on Fuso dispersion is horrid if youre not using full salvo

[@doubleutubefan5]

I fell like single firing allows you to be able to spread out the damage to multiple targets too

[@snarkywombat155]

Doesnt each barrel get its own calcualation? If so, then it doesnt matter outside of bugs

[@themaughan3378]

Yea, single firing is painful to do with ships such as the Georgia, or some German BB's like the Tirpiz. However, I suppose I haven't experimented enough...

[@odinsrensen7460]

How do you salvo fire?

[@GODOLLAHA]

how do i get this skin for monty

[@Johnny_Kanuk]

I haven't played in some time but when I did, I use to time my turrets, so if I had 3 turrets and they had a reload of 22 seconds I would fire one count to 7 fire the second count to 7 fire the third and then just hold that fire button down. I found I did way more damage and had better accuracy. I don't know if that still holds but it was fun and I like doing things different from the norm. You get a ship like the Atlanta and you time it right and you are a freaking machine gun.

[@cyberpunk1161]

5:17 another bug saying your secondaries are destroyed but says its at 83%. I have seen this pop up for me too and hit H and they are all good.

[@SteelxWolf]

Monty is the only BB where salvos were consistent for me. Every time I play Vermont I swear potential dev strikes were denied because my dispersion was unrealistically bad for what Vermont *should* be

[@kape2978]

What ever happened to spamming target select? Was that patched out or something? I still do that to this day, and I blame you PQ lol. Doesn't really feel different since I'm just bad.

[@blackspade1]

I'm glad I'm not the only one that's noticed this...

[@plasot]

I'm shooting salvos for forward and stern batteries

[@robinschwarz4255]

i always thought when you shoot single turrets (4 events calculated) you will get better consistence ... "when you roll the dice more times you get closer to the expected value" ... so in in a big salvo (1 event) you can get unlucky ... but i am not sure how its calculated

[@seraphis]

Do you think because of the coding the game actually has to create a request every click, therefore calculating sigma every time?

[@MFgr8]

Why was salvo firing the de facto way to shoot?

[@atpyro7920]

probably because it was faster/easier

[@placeholderGER]

Complicated topic on why they fired mainly full Salvos. It had something to do with mainly Rangefinding, basically when firing a full Salvo it was easier for the Gunnery Department to determine if shells fall short or long or are spot on since full salvos form a tighter Spread and made it easier to pinpoint if the Range is correctly set on the target. Also firing a Salvo could be done with each turret aiming at a different Point on the enemy Ship so they could direct 2 Turrets for the Position the Ship is travelling towards and 2 Turrets on a Spot the Enemy ship is likely to evade to. Making it more likely to score a Hit which in turn demands the Crew of the Ship that has been hit to direct Resources to fight the Damage and hampering the Ability to Fight back a bit.

[@MFgr8]

@@placeholderGER Thanks for this, but I was wondering why it was "the right way" in WoWs.

[@Jervis1938]

@@MFgr8 Because otherwise your target has time to turn or change speed to avoid or mitigate damage from the later shells.

[@xeryues]

mostly because it takes longer to fire multiple shots - your effective dpm will be lower (if your shots land in the same ratio in single vs double which is what this video is looking at )

[@Traumatree]

You should also compared holding the fire button to cycle the shots automatically vs clicking for each shot individually vs full salvo by double-clicking. For me, I rarely cits for whatever reason, while I see people juste like you barely aiming and able to cit everything they touch.

[@davidncw4613]

Once with my Iowa bow in, prefect target BB side. 11km, dead stop aim point waterline dead center. 6 salvos, one, ONE pen ZERO cits the rest over pen or miss. Fkn bs wows. I will try this single fire for sure.

[@SithLordmatthew]

I single fire on speed juking f-gs You know the ships Henry Hindy Condy Mino Yoshino Kaba tons of destroyers and cruisers love to sit at range and spam you while going back and forward over and over making it impossible to land savos. Hard to hit something 22KM that can slam on the brakes or who waits till you fire then decided to go backwards to make you fall short. Single fire ends that you aim your first turret infront you second on him youre next 2 right behind him and he does the rest. You do this to one of those guys 2-3 times and they suddenly ignore you and find someone else to bother.

[@SkyRaider-31]

Try It with Colombo and compare results

[@tonepilot]

I’ll give this a try. There’s no auto-aim in the PC game right? I think it exists in the console versions?

[@LoanwordEggcorn]

Supposedly the RNG math is the same whether single or salvo firing, but perhaps there's a lock difference? I always single fire BBs, but I have no proof that it's more accurate.

[@gogoloish]

Not a ship request video but could you maybe try out the italian bbs with single fire? Could be a cool video Edit:nvm just heard what you said hahaha

[@opposingcritter]

Makes sense

[@warhawkfan1234]

I only really started noticing the difference when I was getting sick of missing everything with incomparable. I will say though, even though single fire works really well for that ship, there are definitely ships where it feels like it does nothing, like Kii or Kremlin. Might just be a feeling though like you were talkimy about and not based on anything real.

[@Flipperwi715]

Ha. I go back and forth with doing it. Get the same vibe you're getting.

[@martinstanek9711]

slow single fire with colorado definitely works

[@toyslucas9237]

nice idea but there really is no advantage this was tried extensively in training room. best way to explain it is a trick of the eye. I can go more detailed if you'd like. also rng is per shell not per Salvo. even single fire, each shell in the turret has its own rng.

[@goodless]

Now, does this work for German and French BBs??

[@daemon1871]

U can do a better job of hitting French DDs with CAs The trick is firing one long, one short and one where you think he will be. So if he slows down, speeds up or just turning, you can get a piece of him. also as you shoot most DD players know so shooting every gun u can better lead him.